Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Do Kill Switches Deter Cellphone Theft? (arstechnica.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the brick-by-brick dept.

evolutionary shares an article from Ars Technica: San Francisco's district attorney says that a California state law mandating "theft-deterring technological solutions" for smartphones has resulted in a precipitous drop in such robberies. Those measures primarily include a remote kill switch after a phone has been stolen that would allow a phone to be disabled, withstanding even a hard reset. Such a kill switch has become standard in all iPhones ("Activation Lock") and Android phones ("Device Protection") since 2015... When measured from the peak in 2013, "overall robberies involving smartphones have declined an astonishing 50 percent... Because of this hard-fought legislation, stealing a smartphone is no longer worth the trouble, and that means the devices we use every day no longer make us targets for violent crime."

60 of 97 comments (clear)

  1. Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can use pretty much every component in a stolen iPhone except for the logic board and touchID sensor (which is paired with the logic board).

    So stolen phones are still valuable because you can sell the parts, especially the screens which are the most common component to need replacement since there's so many klutzes out there.

    On one hand, pairing the screen and other components with the logic board in a way that only the manufacturer can, like the Touch ID sensor, would solve this problem. On the other, servicing our own devices will become even harder if they do this.

    It's a trade-off. It's good that features like activation lock have reduced theft so much though.

    1. Re: Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

      >I thought they patched away error 53 for unpaired Touch ID.

      They did, but TouchID still doesn't work afterwards.

    2. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

      stolen phones are still valuable because you can sell the parts

      Fair enough. Same as cars.

      Still a good idea to make stolen ones harder to register though.

    3. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Informative

      The only kill switch that would truly deter theft is one that would actually kill the thief.

      Given that it's demonstrably true that smartphone thefts have fallen precipitously since these features have become standard, the onus is on you to provide some actual evidence your statement has any basis in fact whatsoever.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Maybe smartphone theft has dropped because the market for stolen phones has dried up? After all, you can't use a phone that's been reported stolen because of the blacklist, and most people buy a phone on contract, so they don't even notice the cost.

      It's like the market for stolen desktop computers - not too many people want one any more.

      And since laptops are so cheap for a "good enough" one new, the market for several-years-old stolen laptops isn't very lucrative any more.

      Thieves would be better to just hold the phones (with all the data the user may not have backed up) hostage for an "I found your phone" $20 "finder's fee." After all, they already have the one buyer they need to turn a quick buck - the owner. And it's not like they're thinking beyond their next drug purchase.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I do agree with this. Buying and reselling cell phones as a gestalt have been lowered because of this, especially with both activation locks and IMEI blocks.

      However, the same thing has happened with bicycles. In the past, a stolen bike was just sold in the same city. Then serial numbers started being tracked, so the bikes wound up either just being parted out or sold in a different city, as prospective buyers tend to not really want to check a serial number if they can buy a nice new fiberglass road bike for $1000, which normally costs $5000, and nobody is going to go down a bike rack checking serial numbers. Plus, parts. Not many people are going to quibble if someone offers them a Shimano XTR or Dura-Ace set, slightly worn, for a few hundred.

      If someone steals phones, lets the battery drain in Faraday cage bag, then parts them out, they will still make some decent cash. A 100% Apple touch screen still goes for a C-note or two. A finger print scanner or other items are not cheap either. Android stuff can go into a parts bag and be useful here and there.

      Would this allow a full time fence to make money? A good operation, yes. Take the stuff, sell it en masse to a corner shop in some strip mall that does iPhone repairs, and it can make some money.

      I'm just waiting for people to hold phones for ransom.

    6. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      iPhones don't have that many replaceable and expensive components. You basically have the phone body and screen, everything else is too cheap to bother. And the phone screen is $79 new, so you're looking for at most $10-15 for the thief, too little to bother.

    7. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by rworne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thieves will smash a car window to get a few coins in a car's cupholder.

      There's no amount that's too little for them.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    8. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      What happens is you hugely limit the market. For the majority willing to buy stolen stuff, parts are of no use and only a tiny minority are in a position to buy as parts to use in their business and it makes it much easier to monitor, investigate and prosecute those that do. It would likely be better that devices are not bricked but rather flagged. So device stolen, device flagged, some one uses the device, than police and the device and the person using the device are brought together. The police can then investigate whether the person stole the device or just bought it unknowingly and try to track back the seller and in the interim return the device.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by swell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right. I'm trying to imagine a horde of meth users carefully disassembling a smartphone in a dark alley using a rusty pliers and a can opener. My imagination isn't quite up to the challenge. Yours?

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    10. Re: Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Jeremi · · Score: 2

      You want some evidence that killing thieves is a bad idea? Market a cell phone with the ability to kill its user and see how many people are inclined to buy one from you.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    11. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Kinda reminds me of the 1980s when people were stealing the logo from the front of Hondas. Owners would go to the dealer to get a replacement and balk when they found out it cost an outrageous amount. Eventually they'd hear from their friend that he knew someone who knew someone who could get a replacement for cheap. That person would steal the Honda logo from another car, thereby continuing a self-perpetuating stolen goods market.

      (In case the point is not clear, the key to reducing theft for parts is to make replacement parts available from third parties for cheap. If the manufacturer is the only source, they'll charge an outrageous amount because they have a monopoly, thereby creating the incentive for the stolen parts market.)

    12. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by sl149q · · Score: 2

      Stolen phones are worth something for parts.

      It's just that they are worth far less when sold for parts than sold as a working phone.

      The value proposition in stealing a phone that can be resold as a working phone is much better than stealing a phone that can only be sold for parts. So there is (now) much less incentive to stealing phones. Yes, you can get something for them. But much less, so many thieves will look for something else which pays better for the risk.

    13. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      There's no amount that's too little for them.

      Not all thieves! If you can implement policy that will discourage half of the thieves, why not do that? For example, in Latvia kill switches were implemented at cell operator level about 15 years ago and it did reduce phone thefts significantly.

      Thieves will smash a car window to get a few coins in a car's cupholder.

      Coins are real money, phones can (maybe) be sold for real money. Selling things is real work.

    14. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by eneville · · Score: 1

      Some people would want the phone/desktop for the ID theft alone, that's worth a lot more. I think some people have banking programs on their phones, unencrypted without screen lock. I'm sure people do the same with their immobile desktops too. Maybe, unpatched, on the .net. It's a wonder any money is left that wallet sat on the front wall.

      --
      Why UNIX?
    15. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If someone steals phones, lets the battery drain in Faraday cage bag, then parts them out, they will still make some decent cash. A 100% Apple touch screen still goes for a C-note or two. A finger print scanner or other items are not cheap either. Android stuff can go into a parts bag and be useful here and there.

      The problem is "decent operation". Once you're into this, the costs go up significantly, and the price for an Apple screen isn't that high (if you have protection, it's $50, and many street sellers do it for very low cost).

      A single person on the street isn't likely to be that - you'd have to recruit an army of them. And once it happens, the exposure goes way up and annoying law-enforcement type people start poking their heads around.

      Draining the battery does no good, either - Apple phones will re-lock if you try to reflash the OS - part of the activation process is to enter in the owner's apple ID and password. (This has hurt the resale value if people forget to unlock the phone prior to sale).

      Heck, most people already are wary of buying stolen phones. I remember a few years back a kid was trying to sell 4-5 phones, most likely stolen. Kid was still there hours later trying to fence them, and all that happened in the end was he threw them against a wall and smashed them, wasting a whole day trying to sell it so he might as well have fun with it.

    16. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      But for the effort of stealing a phone then taking all the parts out and trying to sell them in good condition. You might as well go legit and make more money as being an electronic reseller, by buying the components at bulk and selling them for individuals with a markup.

      Stealing a cell phone was a quick way to make a buck, even without personal information. Steal an iPhone and sell it for $100 quick cash. But if it doesn't work then people will not buy it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    17. Re: Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That isn't stealing that is more harassment.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    18. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      A lot of theft is actually just lost.
      How many people drop their phone in the toilet. And will report it stolen just to save face. Or just fell out of your pocket on the street?

      The feature is a deterrent not a prevention. So a deterrent does exactly what seems to be happening reducing crime.
      There will always be the criminal that doesn't know about the feature. Or hopes their victim will be stupid and not activate it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    19. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Oh I found someone had dropped there phone. Let me pick it up and bring it to the lost and found.
      Zap!

      The problem is most people are actually trying to do the right thing most of the time.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    20. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by mikael · · Score: 1

      This guy made his own iPhone from spare parts he could buy from trading shops in Shenzen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    21. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by mikael · · Score: 1

      Many banking programs now require a separate one time keycode generator or use the BankID feature of a smartphone - it overlays a code number on top of the screen that can't be read by regular apps.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    22. Re: Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      US Mail 2 the rescue. Or have you forgotten that it exists?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    23. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Why bother when you can just ask for $20 in cryptocurrency, and return it via US mail?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    24. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by geekmux · · Score: 1

      You can use pretty much every component in a stolen iPhone except for the logic board and touchID sensor (which is paired with the logic board).

      So stolen phones are still valuable because you can sell the parts...

      People know how to strip phones for resale about as much as they know how to strip cars for resale. There's still a very small risk that you'll be targeted by someone who holds these skills. If this could be done by anyone, we probably would have not seen a reduction in phone thefts based on software-based protections.

    25. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by torkus · · Score: 1

      To be a bit pedantic: if you lose your phone and someone picks it up...and doesn't turn it over to the police it technically IS stolen.

      Lost property is still legally owned by the person who lost it.

      Found property does NOT become the property of the finder until it's been turned over to the police and subject to a waiting period.

      However, I still agree that a substantial portion of 'theft' is fraudulently labeled so in order to save face, get insurance payouts, etc. but that's and entirely different societal problem.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    26. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by torkus · · Score: 1

      Do you even own a smartphone? ...because that's not AT ALL how the device locks work. Using find my iPhone as an example - I can lock the phone, track the location, sent an audible alert to the phone (even if on silent), and send a custom message to the screen ("Phone lost/stolen, call xxx to arrange return") and the phone is otherwise useless except for parts.

      It's MUCH less common for people to 'zap' the phone since it makes return much more difficult ... and even so, the serial number can still assist with returning it and the owner can 'un-zap' it by which I mean simply unlock it.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    27. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by torkus · · Score: 1

      In theory, it would be good to flag and make each lost or stolen phone subject of a police investigation.

      In reality, this alone would overwhelm pretty much all the police departments everywhere and effectively zero would be investigated. This would give thieves impunity and defeat the purpose of the (substantial) investment in tracking/investigative infrastructure. Sometimes the simpler approach is the better one.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    28. Re:Stolen phones are still valuable for parts by torkus · · Score: 1

      Criminals typically don't do the cost-benefit analysis and decide to go legit.

      Criminals are (typically) not nearly as smart as they think they are either. It 'makes sense' to steal 2-3 phones a day which someone will flip for $50 cash in bulk for you when the prospect of an actual job is abhorrent to your lifestyle.

      The same logic chain is what drives many people to rob gas stations and convenience stores despite the low return and fairly high rate of arrest.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  2. I can't answer by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Funny

    My used cell phone suddenly stopped working.

  3. worst data ever by supernova87a · · Score: 2

    The connection is obvious, but the announcement was pathetically weak. See here for the actual page from the district attorney: http://sfdistrictattorney.org/...

    To show a kindergarten bar chart from 2015 to 2016 as the data behind that claim is pretty pathetic. I mean, cmon, the main claim is that crime decreased from 2013 when these tools became available, and they show only 2015 and 2016 data, which by the way, shows crime increasing or at best, variable during this period?

    What summer intern put together this press release?

    All I would trust this data to say is that no one wants LG, HTC, and Motorola phones...

  4. My kill switch by rholtzjr · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have opted for one of my own. Most people take a look at my phone and say "Holy Crap, what is a Motorola Razor and why does it flip open like a Star Trek communicator? What are you, in the 20th century still?". Hey, problem solved.

    1. Re:My kill switch by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      ...Motorola Razor [...] flips open like a Star Trek communicator?

      Where can I get one?!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:My kill switch by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I've got a Startac or a V500 somewhere.

      I owned both but one got taffed.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:My kill switch by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      You know, if you could mod it to make that electronic chirping sound when you did flip it open... I bet a lot of people would buy it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re: My kill switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can buy a Star Trek Communicator handset today. Uses Bluetooth because the FCC won't license the subspace spectrum. Sometimes about whales.

      I'm waiting for the Borg headset myself.

    5. Re:My kill switch by quenda · · Score: 1

      Would not be much use since they shut down all the 2G networks here.
      I see AT&T has closed theirs in the US, so you may need to upgrade soon.

    6. Re:My kill switch by MarcusOutrageous · · Score: 1

      Android Flip Phones are again available. I'm considering this for one of the two phones i carry as it's easier to differentiate. Also like being able to position the mic closer. A physical keyboard is MUCH better for numeric keypunch entry. https://www.cnet.com/news/sams... What I am ALWAYS scanning for is a modern Android keyboard phone. Because I won't use an NSA-Berry.

  5. This could be another reason... by bogaboga · · Score: 2

    When measured from the peak in 2013, "overall robberies involving smartphones have declined an astonishing 50 percent...

    In my little world these include cellphone attributes that have made them cheaper and therefore more available: -

    1: More powerful but cheaper at the same time

    2: More varied especially in the Android world

    3: No longer *the gadget* to have, i.e. They aren't a status symbol anymore. Heck, you can finance an iPhone at 0% at WalMart!

  6. Good grief, NO, and let's move on... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    No, the "kill switch" idea is as silly as the "smart gun" idea, thieves will not give a shit and hackers will defeat the kill switches anyway.

    Yet another idea from someone who doesn't understand the technology.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Good grief, NO, and let's move on... by bug_hunter · · Score: 2

      The kill switch was first widely implemented by Apple on their own phones prior to any law,
      There were some reported vunerabiities found in 2014, which were since patched and I haven't heard of any exploits since.

      Granted politicians have a habit of passing laws without any understanding of technology or implementation, but this was already a proven solution when the law was passed.
      Maybe there are some underground hacks, but I don't think they'll be easily available to the kind of people who feel they have to steal smart phones for some cash. To your point, why *wouldn't* thieves give a shit about it? When nobody wants to buy a stolen phone because they know it wont work they'll get the message. Yeah you can still sell it for parts or sell to unsuspecting people but that's a lower incentive.

      Here's a bunch of older stories claiming that the iPhone kill switch lowered thefts
      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ip...
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...
      https://www.theguardian.com/te...
      http://www.businessinsider.com...

      As others have said, the overall reduction in phone thefts are probably due largely to do with the greater availability of phones, but let's not all of us just jump on the cynical bandwagon and suggest every idea ever is stupid.

      --
      It's turtles all the way down.
    2. Re:Good grief, NO, and let's move on... by Jake+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but this law says that kill switches do not deter cellphone theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      SIG FAULT: Post index out of bounds.
    3. Re:Good grief, NO, and let's move on... by TimHunter · · Score: 1

      ...just jump on the cynical bandwagon and suggest every idea ever is stupid.

      Welcome to Slashdot!

    4. Re:Good grief, NO, and let's move on... by torkus · · Score: 1

      First off, your logic is utterly flawed. A kill switch is only used as an intentional measure after the device has been lost/stolen/etc. and otherwise the device operates completely normally. A 'smart gun' is intended to prevent the normal function unless a special condition is met (RFID/fingerprint/etc.) and so defaults to a 'broken' state.

      Completely opposite behaviors.

      The kill switch on phones has been working quite well the last few years...and if you don't lose your phone it's effectively transparent.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  7. Law didn't help by Kohath · · Score: 1

    The law went into effect summer of 2015. IPhone activation lock was in IOS 7, fall of 2013.

    Political jerks should stop taking credit for things they have nothing to do with.

    Android finally got the feature in 5.0/5.1, late 2014/early 2015. So maybe the law prevented a few cheap phones from getting older versions that summer.

    Bottom line: the feature probably prevents thefts. The law doesn't do much of anything.

    1. Re: Law didn't help by guruevi · · Score: 1

      It's still potentially lucrative to get an Android, many run ancient versions, think 4.4 and 5 on models sold this year. Many Androids also don't actually have a kill switch, the software may lock the device but the device does not have encryption or chip support for it so reflashing the thing is enough.

      I think the main thing is that the devices lose resale value fast, half of them will indeed lock out but you can get a pretty recent processor for $200 from Xiaomi which has the same guts as a $500 Samsung, which drives the actual value of both down to $20-50 if it's in good condition, any scratch or crack and $5 is all you get.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  8. Put the fucking thing away by Known+Nutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the SF Bay Area -- as many here know -- the local media has been covering a recent uptick in electronic device theft (iPhones and iPads of course) on BART. TFS is reporting these types of thefts are down, but not on BART.

    I hate to be "that guy", but for fucks sakes, put the fucking thing away when you're on BART (or any public transit) and pay attention to your surroundings. Why do we have to tell people this? Many of these thefts are grab and dash right when the doors are about to close. That nimrod standing right by the door, headphones on, staring at the screen..? You're a mark.

    --
    Beware of the Leopard.
    1. Re:Put the fucking thing away by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      ... pay attention to your surroundings.

      This part, especially.

      Not just to prevent theft - but, also, to keep yourself from stepping in front of a moving train or speeding car.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  9. Asking the wrong question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do Kill Switches matter at all to people who steal phones and sell them on the street?

    The answer is: no. They don't care about that, they only care about their next fix for the day which comes at the price of a few stolen phones.

    The real question is: Why don't we help addicts instead of turning them in to hopeless thieves? The answer by most Americans is: This the American way! You reap what you sow, morons.

    1. Re:Asking the wrong question. by PPH · · Score: 1

      Why don't we help addicts

      They don't want help.

      Actually, they do. But any help that comes with the condition "and eventually you won't need drugs anymore" is turned down.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Asking the wrong question. by sjames · · Score: 1

      The thing is, addiction isn't the real problem. After WWI there were a lot of involuntary heroin addicts that went on to have a more or less normal and productive life even while never kicking the addiction.

  10. Evil is as evil does by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Phone companies were partners in the thefts. They had the customers on the hook for the rest of their contract, and they'd dutifully buy another phone.

    Meanwhile, the stolen phone must sign up with someone, often that very same carrier. So they in effect get the robbed customer to subsidize a second new customer for them.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  11. Re:Small problem by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    In the United States, carriers won't take phones from other providers, generally, so that kind of works. :-D

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  12. Re:Well, one thing I don't want to deter by DonaId+Trump · · Score: 2

    Mooch, what are you doing? I need you back here at work. We're about to have a tremendous meeting, I need your help thinking of some vulgar nicknames for Senators. We're going to invent the best nicknames, believe me.

  13. Re: Small problem by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    It at least has been true for CDMA-based U.S. carriers in the past, because they require you to actually register the device with them to activate it on their network, and they typically won't take a device that was originally sold for another network.

    Obviously you can switch between AT&T and T-Mobile by swapping SIM cards, but if you ask the carrier, they'll often tell you that you can't, because they don't want to deal with the headache of managing devices that are band-limited to a subset of their supported bands.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  14. The plain and simple facts are by bferrell · · Score: 1

    "chop shops" for phones really aren't a "thing" right now and the perception that a phone can be remotely "killed" makes a stolen phone less valuable.

    Taken together, these will tend to reduce the number of stolen phones.

    It might change with Apples new $1200.00 device, but until then...

  15. Human Condition by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

    The same people committing crimes over and over. That's a fact. Eliminate them, and crime drops to nearly zero. That's basic common sense.

    The tragedy of life is not that we spend so much time rediscovering basic truths, but that we spend so much time rediscovering basic idiocies.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  16. Actually, BART says nerdy white boys deserve it. by MarcusOutrageous · · Score: 1

    We'd catch catch the perps faster if BART released video of the crimes. Oh right, BART states it withholds crime videos. *To not encourage racism.* Let that one sink in. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

  17. iPhone 2013. Android 2015. by sych · · Score: 1

    iPhone Activation Lock - iOS 7.0, 2013.
    Android Device Protection - Android 5.1 (Lollipop), 2015. :)

  18. catch the criminals by greggman · · Score: 1

    You shouldn't have to protect yourself from theft. Many countries don't have a culture of theft. go live in one and you'll see this is the approach of having nothing worth stealing is the wrong approach. it's so freeing to live somewhere I can carry whatever and not worry about thieves