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What We Get Wrong About Technology (timharford.com)

Tim Harford, a columnist for the Financial Times, uses the example of Rachael and Rick Deckard from Blade Runner to explain how we humans, when asked about how new inventions might shape the future, often tend to leap to technologies that are sophisticated beyond comprehension. Also spoiler of the Blade Runner plot is ahead. He writes: So sophisticated is Rachael that she is impossible to distinguish from a human without specialised equipment; she even believes herself to be human. Los Angeles police detective Rick Deckard knows otherwise; in Rachael, Deckard is faced with an artificial intelligence so beguiling, he finds himself falling in love. Yet when he wants to invite Rachael out for a drink, what does he do? He calls her up from a payphone. There is something revealing about the contrast between the two technologies -- the biotech miracle that is Rachael, and the graffiti-scrawled videophone that Deckard uses to talk to her. It's not simply that Blade Runner fumbled its futurism by failing to anticipate the smartphone. That's a forgivable slip, and Blade Runner is hardly the only film to make it. It's that, when asked to think about how new inventions might shape the future, our imaginations tend to leap to technologies that are sophisticated beyond comprehension. We readily imagine cracking the secrets of artificial life, and downloading and uploading a human mind. Yet when asked to picture how everyday life might look in a society sophisticated enough to build such biological androids, our imaginations falter. Blade Runner audiences found it perfectly plausible that LA would look much the same, beyond the acquisition of some hovercars and a touch of noir.

197 comments

  1. The perfect woman by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Funny

    The perfect woman has a "restore to factory settings" button.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re: The perfect woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But her emails!

    2. Re: The perfect woman by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Try chocolate.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re:The perfect woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The restore time would be excessive. Not to mention prone to regulatory misunderstandings resulting in your inclusion on a sex offender registry.

    4. Re:The perfect woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The perfect woman has a "restore to factory settings" button.

      So does the perfect man.

    5. Re:The perfect woman by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The perfect woman has a "restore to factory settings" button.

      I'm sure that your woman does.

    6. Re: The perfect woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Add more calories" or pretty much the opposite of "restore to factory settings".

  2. The payphone isn't the important part by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The crux of the matter is that the payphone isn't the important part of the story. Rachel's unnatural nature is. While the payphone is becoming less common they're not entirely gone either.

    Also, one can imagine a scenario where a police detective knows how the technology works, and actually makes a point of avoiding technology that's personally tied to him where actions he takes could arguably be used to demonstrate that he's compromised in some fashion. If you will, he uses the payphone because it's not his phone, so it's harder for a cursory investigation to identify that he made that call in the first place. Admittedly this would be something of a retcon since I doubt that it was even a consideration when the film was made. On the other hand we don't have flying cars, a postapocalyptic landscape, or extraterrestrial colonies either.

    Enjoy the story, don't focus on the inane details, they're not important in this case.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, the truth of the matter is, what makes Science Fiction frequently valuable is not that they accurately portray the future. One of the great things about science fiction is that it alters our own reality slightly so we can look at it better.

      A story with an android in it frequently isn't about androids- it's about examining what it is to be human. 1984 wasn't about the technology of two way televisions.

      Very few science fiction books get everything right, and if they did, it would take away from the message being delivered.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. We don't want to imagine a completely alien reality. We can't participate in that. There is no payoff. We want stories about ourselves.

    3. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

      One of the great things about science fiction is that it alters our own reality slightly so we can look at it better.

      Correct, if you're talking about soft science fiction.

      [gets out popcorn, retires to a safe distance]

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Payphones are a classical element in undercover police movies. There are no cell phones in the movie either, besides the video communicators in the squad cars. This is an 80's steampunk environment, there's no symbolism in using a payphone to call up a girl beside that was what one did if you wanted to make a call on the go.

    5. Re: The payphone isn't the important part by UrbanMonk · · Score: 1

      So Bill and Ted were really in the Matrix and the flux capacitor was really a dynamic FPGA programmed by AI - that makes time travel possible.

    6. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i just assumed VerizAT rates were too high in the future to afford an actual non work related thus, non expansible, call.

    7. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Greg Egan FTW.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    8. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy the story, don't focus on the inane details, they're not important in this case.

      I don't think the details are inane. They're an undeniably part of the movie, and a huge part of its flavor. They're part of the art, and also incorrect predictions. (You can still love the movie anyway!)

      Pet animals becoming an expensive luxury, flying cars, an economy that wants not just intelligent robots but they need to look just like humans (WTF?) were all part of some peoples' "futuristic" vision in the early 1980s. These things are just as much a part of the art as the low lighting and griminess, and it's a historical record of how people were thinking.

    9. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by nine-times · · Score: 2

      Sometimes, the intention isn't even to try to get the predictions correct. To use an obvious example, I doubt anyone working on "The Matrix" was anticipating that the human race would actually be imprisoned in a huge VR world so that AI could use their bodies as batteries. That wasn't the point.

      I think this is the case with a lot of SciFi. The technology is there as a plot device, not as a prediction.

    10. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      What's really scary, and that most of you will never know, is that The Matrix got things 99% right. The only flaw was when they compared humans to Duracell batteries. You're actually Energizer batteries.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    11. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by azadrozny · · Score: 1

      I think this is one of the more difficult things that a good storyteller does. While they may want us to see an alien world/time, they still must ground it in the reality of the audience. I find it taxing to have to "transpose" things all the time. The best example that comes to my mind is the Original Battlestar Galactica show. The time units sometimes drove me nuts, is a centon equal to a minute, a second or an hour? The term for a year was yahren. They sound similar enough, but pull you out of the story, to figure out how to relate to what is going on.

      If Deckard had pulled a phone from his pocket, most people probably would have figured out what was going on (we had seen this on Star Trek). But Deckard wasn't rich, he was an average Joe. Mobile phones were for the upper class. We (the 1982 audience) relate to him better by seeing him use something familiar. I am not sure if this was one the mind of the writers and prop designers, but it illustrates the challenge of balancing the futuristic with the familiar.

    12. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly rabbit, WE are the processors that the AI uses to run their VMs on.

    13. Re: The payphone isn't the important part by operagost · · Score: 1

      Whoa.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    14. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Target+Drone · · Score: 2

      What I find the most ironic is the videophone. Everyone in the 20th century just assumed that we'd have AND use videophones. Little did they know that people in the 21st century would have videophones but would use them to send old style telegrams. The camera on your videophone would just be used to take pictures and home movies.

    15. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1

      What I find the most ironic is the videophone. Everyone in the 20th century just assumed that we'd have AND use videophones..

      We DO have and use video phones. Skype video. I use it with a friend of mine, and another friend uses it so his kids can see and interact with their distant grand parents.
      It isn't in the form we expected, but it is here and being used every day.

      --
      First law of people: People are generally stupid.
    16. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The envisioned 2019 Los Angeles seemed to be lifted directly from Seventies Tokyo, from the constant rain and underground flea-market stall shopping mazes to the advertisements in kanji for golf equipment and Atari computers.

    17. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      It is used but not nearly as much as expected. the GP is right that people thought the natural progression was text to speech to video. Text to speech happened because the telephone replaced a lot of uses of telegrams. Mostly that's because of convenience. Turns out we really love text.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    18. Re: The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My family is spread all over the world and we use video call apps on our phones weekly to keep in touch.

    19. Re: The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the open market/stalls thing does exist in downtown LA. Toy district.

    20. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by martinX · · Score: 1

      It really comes down to how much of your concentration each method of communication requires. Also, deciding to dedicate time and concentration to something is your decision, but in real-time communication, you require the other person to do the same. If they aren't willing to, you are wasting everyone's time.

      Texting takes a small amount of time, and the recipient can dedicate the small amount of time to read it at a time of their own choosing. Voice takes more concentration but, like radio, you can be doing other things at the same time. Video calls are more like formal meetings and not everyone wants that level of participation with every person that wants to talk to them.

      I used to Skype my wife while taking a walk after lunch at work. The video didn't add much to the conversation except she saw much more of my nostrils than she usually does. I voice call her now.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    21. Re: The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stuff like this happens again and again in pop culture sci-fi.

      2001 a Space Odyssey. Main character gets off of an obital transfer ship onto a space station the size of LAX and calmly finds the nearest payphone to check in.

    22. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the truth of the matter is, what makes Science Fiction frequently valuable is not that they accurately portray the future. One of the great things about science fiction is that it alters our own reality slightly so we can look at it better.

      A story with an android in it frequently isn't about androids- it's about examining what it is to be human. 1984 wasn't about the technology of two way televisions.

      Very few science fiction books get everything right, and if they did, it would take away from the message being delivered.

      You're missing the point. Just as the point of a story about androids may not be about androids, the point of this article isn't that specfic gets things wrong. Of course it gets things wrongs. No one is really prescient. But looking at HOW authors get things wrong also says something about the human condition and the way our minds work.

    23. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by jezwel · · Score: 1

      Yup, this was the original premise of the movie - our brains running the VM that enslaved us. Too complicated apparently, so was dumbed down to 'batteries'.

    24. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by TWX · · Score: 1

      Texting is also leaving a message for them, not requiring them to read it now and never have access to it. Texting creates a record that the recipient can refer back to.

      Most people don't care for the idea of their phone conversations being recorded, but they don't have a problem with the records created by text messages unless those records are later used as evidence against them.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    25. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every American city with which I am familiar looks pretty much the same as they did in the 1970's - sure a few extra buildings, redesigned freeway exits. And public phones are still available eg, blue light emergency phones on college campuses. Blade Runner LA still seems plausible, over 30 years later.

    26. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Most people don't care for the idea of their phone conversations being recorded, but they don't have a problem with the records created by text messages unless those records are later used as evidence against them.

      People to love to rag on millenials but one reason they all seem so enamoured with snapchat is it has the default of not keeping messages (anything saved has to be saved explicitly).

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    27. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Well, the truth of the matter is, what makes Science Fiction frequently valuable is not that they accurately portray the future. One of the great things about science fiction is that it alters our own reality slightly so we can look at it better.

      Science Fiction will tell us much less about the future then it tells us about the time it was written - their hopes and fears about the future.

      --
      bickerdyke
    28. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      It really comes down to how much of your concentration each method of communication requires

      It starts with as simple things like having to get dressed for a call.

      --
      bickerdyke
    29. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yes, that would have made more sense. First, I wouldn't think humans made for efficient batteries, but our brains are good at processing information (in some ways, at least). Second, it would have made more sense of a lot of the phenomena in the Matrix. For example:

      * Agents being able to run themselves on people makes more sense if people are processing units. Software doesn't really run on batteries.
      * The importance of the Matrix for the machines. If people are just batteries and the Matrix is to keep them occupied, why do the machines care what happens within the Matrix? Why bother at all, when you could just lobotomize everyone or keep them unconscious? It makes more sense if the Matrix is sort of like the OS that the machines run on, and people are actually processing information as they go through the simulation.
      * The abilities of "the One". Why would a battery have the ability to mess with the code of the Matrix? If it's a processor, then it makes more sense that he might process things differently then the other processors, and therefore be able to provide different output given the same input.

    30. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by TWX · · Score: 1

      You've clearly not been to Phoenix and its surrounding metro area. In 1980 the population of the county was about 1.5 million people, now it's around 5 million people. The uptown part of higher density construction has yielded importance back to the old downtown and its convention center, sports arenas, and the supporting businesses. Most of the taller buildings were built sometime after 1980, and the blight that the construction of the lightrail inevitably caused has given-way to four and five story mixed-use buildings. New universities have sprung-up and existing universities have expanded to having multiple campuses, many along that lightrail line. Portions of the Phoenix metro area are *gasp* walkable, and the downtowns of Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa are reachable without requiring a car or having to change buses anymore.

      Sure, the suburbs are suburbs, and continue to sprawl in every direction that isn't blocked by an indian reservation, but even there one can see the differences in trends and tastes, and one can see where relatively cheap homes built as McMansions taking up all of the lot square footage with the smallest setbacks that the city will allow will very likely become bad neighborhoods, while other developments with actual land will probably remain expensive neighborhoods.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    31. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In addition, the camera picks up stuff you don't want other people to see. If I'm on voice, it's harder to tell where I am. It's not possible to get a look at what I'm working on. It's not possible to tell the state of my housekeeping or my clothing.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    32. Re:The payphone isn't the important part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The importance of the Matrix for the machines. If people are just batteries and the Matrix is to keep them occupied, why do the machines care what happens within the Matrix? Why bother at all, when you could just lobotomize everyone or keep them unconscious?

      Not that I think the premise is very strong, but it's made consistent by clues in a few places:

      * Morpheus saying, "the body cannot live without the mind"
      * Smith saying the first Matrix was a disaster because "nobody would accept the program; entire crops were lost"
      * Notice the first thing that happens when Neo is awakened - the machines unplug him and flush him down the drain. They don't want to do this to millions of "batteries"

      The thing that made me twitch was the inconsistent "rules" about how Agents were able to take over humans, and when/how they knew where our heroes were. How did Smith known what the bum in the subway station was seeing? Is it enough for our heroes to be spotted doing something hacky anywhere inside the Matrix? How could they possibly operate that way?

  3. Easy, sort of by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Things that get replaced more often will be more advanced.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Easy, sort of by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Unless we're talking about UIs or init systems.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Not that much of a leap by mccalli · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mr Harford, like myself, is British. Britain is an old country, and we live in cities built in some cases several hundred years ago - in same cases with the same buildings still there. Not unique to Britain obviously, am simply using this as an example he should be familiar with.

    We still use roads built with gauges governed by ancient carriages. London streets still wend and wind because many were simply not designed for motorised traffic, yet we still use them.

    It's not at all a stretch of the imagination to consider that cities a hundred years from now will be built on the recognisable and still in use bits that we see today.

    1. Re:Not that much of a leap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem, well yes. But this isn't really how LaLa Land works... the buildings aren't made of stone, and things get redeveloped a lot more. Even going back after 10 or 20 years the place looks kinda different in ways that my home city does not (because we have a lot less money and redevelop less.)

  5. SF doesn't always predict future tech... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

    Science fiction is a reflection of society when it comes out. Back in the 1980's when the Blade Runner movie came out, payphones were still common. I read one science fiction novel written in the 1980's where a computer document was searchable via a MS-DOS filenames (eight-character name, dot, three-character extension) on a different planet in 500+ years into the future.

    1. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > I read one science fiction novel written in the 1980's where a computer document was searchable via a MS-DOS filenames (eight-character name, dot, three-character extension) on a different planet in 500+ years into the future.

      That was an outdated idea even in the 80s.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      That was an outdated idea even in the 80s.

      When I took Introduction to Computers at college in 1992, MS-DOS and 8.3 filenames was alive and well.

    3. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      SF doesn't always predict future trends either. The last time it rained, I didn't see dozens of people carrying light-up umbrellas, talking crosswalks only just now made it into my city, and I have searched high and low, but have yet to find any establishment with a giant neon sign that reads "ATARI".

    4. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      [...] a giant neon sign that reads "ATARI".

      It's called a product placement. Warner Brothers owned Atari and distributed Blade Runner at the time. Even though Warner Brothers no longer owns Atari, the Atari logo does appear in the new movie.

      https://venturebeat.com/2017/05/08/blade-runner-2049-official-film-trailer-features-the-atari-logo/

    5. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by Sique · · Score: 1

      And outdated at the same time.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    6. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by srmalloy · · Score: 2

      For an even more extreme version of this, look at Heinlein's novel Starman Jones. Published in 1953 and set in a future when humanity has spread out into the stars, the Astrogator's Guild has its 'secret books' that are essentially nothing but tables of conversions between decimal and binary, and the astrogators' job is to manually take star sights, translate the data from them into binary, then toggle the binary values into a computer that is hardwired to perform only the computation of integrating the previous sights with the current sight against the position of a wormhole to return values for maneuvering corrections, which are then converted back from binary and applied manually to the engine controls. No concept of the computer being tied into sensors and engines, with the crew able to enter a desired course through an interface that doesn't require conversion into binary and have the computer perform the feedback loop to guide the ship to the wormhole without requiring the navigators to overwork themselves acting as the computer's interfaces.

      Another example is the Traveller RPG; published in 1977, and set in a future where human and alien civilizations spanned a significant part of the galaxy, ship's computers take up a minimum of 14 cubic meters of volume in the ship -- a starship of 400 tons displacement with a medium-size computer system would have it taking up 56 cubic meters of volume -- four 'tons' in the design process -- and this computer can only run eight programs simultaneously. It's like having ENIAC on your ship.

    7. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "were", not "was". Plural. What an interesting writer yo u are.

    8. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Yes there were other systems besides MS-DOS in the 80s. Yes they used other file name structures. MS-DOS was still alive and well, and that's what most computer users knew. Windows 3 came out in 1992, and it was the first version of Windows to get any sort of traction in the market. Even it still used 8.3. Windows 95 was the first to use "long" filenames.

    9. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      That word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Yes there were other systems besides MS-DOS in the 80s. Yes they used other file name structures. MS-DOS was still alive and well, and that's what most computer users knew. Windows 3 came out in 1992, and it was the first version of Windows to get any sort of traction in the market. Even it still used 8.3. Windows 95 was the first to use "long" filenames.

      Yes, MS-DOS was the best known OS, and most people used its 8.3 filesystem until 95, and even then it took time for people to get used to long filenames.

      It was still outdated in the 80s. :p

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    10. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Apple (and if I recall) several other companies had file systems with much longer "names".

    11. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      That was an outdated idea even in the 80s.

      Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day too. Apple DOS was written several years before MSDOS, and has more sophisticated filenames. (Oh, I just realized, the later ProDOS has "only" 15 character filenames.) I realize other personal computers probably have similar features, I just don't recall the specifics about them.

      from https://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl...

          4.1: DOS 3.x file names and types

            DOS 3.x filenames can from 1-30 characters in length, and must start
            with an uppercase letter. They cannot contain commas, colons, but can
            contain control characters.

    12. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Even better: In some Isaac Asimov Novel (forgot which) starships became way to complicated to be operated by humans. They had to be steered and navigated by "AI" (or cybernetic or positronic or electronic brains.)

      But was something like a computer connected to the controls? No. Not electronic or even mechanically using servo motors: Each ship had to have a robot, as only a robot could operate all the required buttons, rudders and levers.

      How can someone capable of imagining an artificial brain operating the most complex machinery not even have the faintest idea that mechanical controls could be obsolete by a time we have starships and AI

      --
      bickerdyke
    13. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      To be a little more kind to GDW (who produced Traveller), a lot of that was supposed to be computer stations and the like. To be a little less kind, they'd released the game Triplanetary somewhat earlier, which had its warships using guns because beam or energy weapons were basically impossible.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    14. Re:SF doesn't always predict future tech... by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Another example is the Traveller RPG; published in 1977, and set in a future where human and alien civilizations spanned a significant part of the galaxy, ship's computers take up a minimum of 14 cubic meters of volume in the ship -- a starship of 400 tons displacement with a medium-size computer system would have it taking up 56 cubic meters of volume -- four 'tons' in the design process -- and this computer can only run eight programs simultaneously. It's like having ENIAC on your ship.

      Which is fairly realistic for mature server setup running mission critical programs needed to keep you from dying. Once you include racks, redundant systems, cooling, the actual computers, data storage, and routers, and depending on the ship floorplan, space to access them, 14 cubic meters is a modest server room. The programs are all things controlling the vast systems of a space ship including calculating various jump space coordiantes needed to travel lightyears in normal space in a week, probably with reduntdant systems because if something goes wrong, ship is destroyed and everybody dies (which is a risk even then if things are done sloppily). The tech is mature so even with increase of tech level, you don't get much more efficiency out of newer models.

  6. Blade Runner - bad example? by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blade Runner is artistically styled specifically to be a false future that blends 1940s noir and high tech, which means you end up with a lot of paradoxical technology elements.

    If it was meant to be a coherent high-tech universe, it wouldn't be able to pull off the noir styling it's famous for.

    The author really should have tried to make his point with a pure science fiction story that didn't intentionally try to map older styles into the future. I wonder how his analysis would hold up with Star Trek.

    1. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Star Trek has fax machines and dune buggies.

    2. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The remake of Battlestar Galactica has non-networked computers and wired phones.

    3. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > The remake of Battlestar Galactica has non-networked computers and wired phones.

      Those are not out of place in the neo-BSG universe. They exist there for a reason.

      They aren't nearly as silly as some of the stuff in Trek that suffers from 50 years of accumulated cruft and contradictions.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      How do they have fax machines when they use PADDs instead of paper?

    5. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      They aren't nearly as silly as some of the stuff in Trek that suffers from 50 years of accumulated cruft and contradictions.

      Maybe Firefly with six-shooters and Chinese?

    6. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cylons... Please...

    7. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      The first time they mentioned 'no networked computers' i lost all interest. There is no way you would ever do that. You would find a way to keep the Silons out or you would have to give up electricity altogether.

      Out of a fleet of battlestars, the Galactica survived because its non-networked computers were immune to the Cylon computer virus, and the Pegasus did a FTL jump without coordinates out of dry dock while under attack and ripped out the computer code after their computer expert got identified as a Cylon. There was an episode where the Galactica got separated from the fleet, had to jump back to their previous coordinates, and networked the computers to calculate the new coordinates while the Cylons bang down a multi-layer firewall. Non-networked computers was a very important plot detail.

    8. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by green1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The funny part I always found (even when Star Trek was new) was that they had PADDs not PADD. Why plural? why would you carry around a stack of PADDs? it never made sense. The concept that one PADD could only have one document seemed ridiculous to me even at the time, let alone now.

    9. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't nearly as silly as some of the stuff in Trek that suffers from 50 years of accumulated cruft and contradictions.

      Maybe Firefly with six-shooters and Chinese?

      Revolvers are still the most reliable of firearm designs and can chamber very powerful rounds that you'd otherwise need a rifle for. They've stuck around for centuries for a reason.

      Plus it's a space western after all.

    10. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's completely inconceivable to think that China - with it's billion+ people, and rapidly growing economy, would end up being an influential military and economic power. I mean, everybody knows that it's white people who end up in charge of things - little ching-chong chinamen could never hope to compete.

    11. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      > The remake of Battlestar Galactica has non-networked computers and wired phones.

      Those are not out of place in the neo-BSG universe. They exist there for a reason.

      They aren't nearly as silly as some of the stuff in Trek that suffers from 50 years of accumulated cruft and contradictions.

      My biggest WTF in Trek was more cultural than tech. They had no problem with Japanese, black, and even Russian officers. But women couldn't command starships? Yes, I know it was the 60s, but it was supposed to the 23rd century!

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    12. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chinese influence in the Firefly universe doesn't even need to rely on expansion. If humanity was well-mixed right now, about one in seven people would be Chinese, the dominant Asian culture. Four out of every seven people would be ethnically Asian.

      The average human is Asian and the average Asian is Han Chinese.

      As for justifying the revolvers in a space western, it does so right in the intro: technological levels on worlds vary heavily. The only real question is why has no-one pounded out an AK from a shovel?

    13. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by spire3661 · · Score: 0

      A poorly chosen one that instantly destroyed my suspension-of-disbelief. I would have spent the rest of the show tearing that theory apart and proving them wrong. Now to be fair, im a communications specialist, im interested in all forms of intercommunication so i just couldnt swallow a 'future' without networking. It was completely implausible, to me. Explaining the 'reasons' for bad writing dont make it any more palatable.

      --
      Good-bye
    14. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The oddest bit in Star Trek was that they seemed to have forgotten about fitting their electrical sytems with the most basic of late 19th century technology, the fuse.

    15. Re:Blade Runner - bad example? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      The only Star Trek that was science fiction was the original series with Kirk and Spock. Ever since, they've all been dramas. People like Harland Ellison used to write the episodes. Now it's people who write for House M.D. or LA Law or whatnot. Don't get me wrong, some of the newer episodes are quite good dramas. But science fiction it's not. In fact, the writers consider science deplorable and will just write [technobabble] in the scripts whenever any science-y things are required by the plot.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    16. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] even Russian officers.

      The only reason he was there was so he could ask where the nuclear wessels were. He's even called Checkov, such a dead giveaway!

    17. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by chuckugly · · Score: 1

      The Firefly firearms/weapons are not revolvers, nor are they six-shooters. Some of them are stylistically similar to single action revolvers but they are not actually revolvers. This is obvious by a cursory inspection. The Expanse does seem to have revolvers, interestingly enough.

    18. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by green1 · · Score: 1

      Apparently in the 24th century you need thousands of volts available at every control panel.

    19. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The only real question is why has no-one pounded out an AK from a shovel?

      As a history teacher once pointed out regarding the Old West, shootouts didn't use as many bullets as the movies usually do. Bullets, supposedly, were expensive back in the day and weren't wasted on shooting up the town. As for Firefly, it might be a similar situation. Besides, do you really want to have an AK on a spaceship?

    20. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is inconceivable that the Chinese would do all of that, and then disappear. Name one Chinese character on that show.... (and I don't mean "Mandarin characters" painted on the side of the ship or tattooed on somebody).

    21. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That does make sense. A shot of whiskey was called a shot because it cost the same as a bullet (of some calibur or other).

      Besides, do you really want to have an AK on a spaceship?

      Yes! But mostly I want a spaceship and to not have to go to work in the morning.

    22. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a history teacher once pointed out regarding the Old West, shootouts didn't use as many bullets as the movies usually do. Bullets, supposedly, were expensive back in the day and weren't wasted on shooting up the town. As for Firefly, it might be a similar situation.

      They are flying around in fucking spaceships, made of literal tons of metal. But yeah, I'm sure that manufacturing BULLETS is prohibitively expensive.

      "I'd like to buy this spaceship..."
      "Okay, that'll be $12.99."
      "... and this box of bullets."
      "Whoa, partner. Only people can afford those are governments with trillions of dollars in revenues. Maybe you'd like something less pricey?"
      "Dammit, never mind, I was going to have a shootout later, but we'll have to cancel."

      There are plenty of reasons to choose revolvers: powerful, large-caliber rounds; easy concealment; reliable & durable compared to semiautomatics; Better for "close in" personal defense - a long-barreled rifle is not a close-range weapon.

      Besides, do you really want to have an AK on a spaceship?

      There are numerous assault rifles & submachine guns seen throughout the series, as well. Sometimes even *gasp* on spaceships.

      Have you even watched the show?

    23. Re:Blade Runner - bad example? by null+etc. · · Score: 1

      The author really should have tried to make his point with a pure science fiction story that didn't intentionally try to map older styles into the future.

      He could have easily looked to the Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov. Set 20,000 to 50,000 years in the future, when humanity has the capability of interstellar flight, humans are still using microfiche to store their information, and pneumatic air tubes to transfer information.

      I mean, c'mon - interstellar spaceships could be developed without requiring that computer consoles first exist? Many authors and artists of the past projected the mechanical-only nature of then-contemporary machines, and extrapolated them without first also envisioning the complementary technologies that would first need to be developed in the future.

    24. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the reboot films are nothing but cheesy special effects action films wrapped in a Star Trek skin.

    25. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well even in the 23rd century they'll still be all emotional and get periods and stuff.

    26. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "Why plural? why would you carry around a stack of PADDs?"

      To display multiple things at the same time.

    27. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've obviously never dealt with military paperwork. There's probably a regulation than each set of forms needs its own PADD (possibly put in place by the guy who gets commission checks for selling PADDs).

    28. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Show me a way to truly secure a networked computer network against human attackers. I'll wait.

      Now imagine the attackers are intelligent, creative computers instead. You're screwed.

      You could *maybe* secure a wired-only network, as long as you could guarantee no node was ever compromised - but clearly the Psilon's already had the run of the ship, so the only real hope is physically securing the computers and ensuring that if a node gets infected anyway it won't spread, and hope you noticed the infection before it became too much of a problem.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    29. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

      The term is "air-gapped", and it's done all the time in real life.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    30. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by geekymachoman · · Score: 1

      > was that they had PADDs not PADD.

      What if it was designed to hold only one particular data set at a time ?
      Like a book.

      Or maybe you could stuff a bunch of unrelated things on it, they just didn't do it because it was easier otherwise ?

      I mean, we could probably go on for 5 hours with these what ifs. Making a conclusion, why somebody hasn't done something, is not very productive.

    31. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gene Roddenberry did cast a female first officer for the pilot, but he was forced to get rid of her for the production run.

    32. Re:Blade Runner - bad example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in the Asimo-verse they use city-sized and planet-sized computers to design those interstellar spaceships!

      Definitely, small computers (remember when IBM thought the whole world would only need a dozen or so computers?) and the internet were big blind spots in science-fiction.

    33. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The Serenity has crew that were defeated in a war, and is definitely on the outs with the government (until they find Shepherd Book on board, anyway - too bad they never followed up on that). Maybe the war was over racism.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Altrag · · Score: 1

      In a lot of ways, they pushed the bar as far as they could get away with. They might not have had a female office but Uhara was bridge crew and considered important to running the ship, and some of the alien races had female leaders. Of course by the logic of modern SJWs that would be taken as a "so you're implying its totally alien to have a female leader!" but back in the 60s even the concept of a female leader, alien or not, was pretty rare.

      And its not that strange that Trek was better with racism than sexism -- racism had already been getting a negative connotation for close to 100 years (that whole civil war thing and all) while feminism was kind of out of the limelight (first wave was a good 30 years in the past and primarily focused specifically on voting rights, while the second wave which was more focused on actual equality was barely getting started.)

    35. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Its really not that out of context -- Galactica's main reason for not using networked communications was purely Adama's distrust of them. Kind of like how some people don't trust any firewall at all and will only consider a computer safe if its physically unplugged from any network source and stored in a secure Faraday cage to block any sort of radio emissions.

      If you watch Caprica, you get (a bit) more insight into Adama. While it doesn't really focus on him to any great extent you can kind read between the lines to get a sense of why he distrusts computers and whatnot more than most people.

      Its not that there wasn't any networking (all of the other ships, plus all of the planetary systems were networked,) so you're free to start swallowing again.. its just that one specific guy was paranoid and happened to be in a position where he had the power to dictate his paranoia in a plot-convenient fashion.

    36. Re: Blade Runner - bad example? by TexNex · · Score: 1

      Except that air-gapped is only secure as the area its in and the person who has physical access to it. I doubt there was any true security being as there were so many "flesh-bots" walking around on all the ships. With as many "X malware/worm/virus/windows update enables transfer of data through lights/sound/fan speed/power bus/CPU temp/media seek" stories we get on Slashdot monthly, would you really trust any systems on the BSG to un-compromised? It was a TV show but, whomever wrote it certainly didn't think about cyber security when coming up with plot devices or continuity.

  7. Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Science fiction stories, if they're good, sacrifice versimilitude for the sake of being understandable by the audience. Blade Runner had the option of using something like these science fiction tropes: the "Dick Tracy" wrist radio, portrayed in the police comic since 1952, or the Star Trek communicator, used in 1965. But instead they might have chosen to portray a community in which down-trodden people would still be limited to pay phones, or it simply wasn't important to the story and would have been a distraction from the main story thread.

    People gave me a hard time because Pixar's A Bugs Life (on which I am credited) had the wrong number of legs on the impossible talking anthropomorphic ants and Antz had the right number of legs on its impossible talking anthromorphic ants. But it wasn't important to telling the story, and we just did not care.

    The LA portrayed was vastly different from what viewers knew at the time, in that video wall mega-advertising was everywhere. Although this is taken for granted today, it was a stunning departure from the reality of the day when the film was produced.

    Also, the weather of LA was overturned. In the movie it always rains in California.

    1. Re:Missing some things by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      That's because it's always night and it's always raining or at least wet in night shots in movies.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    2. Re:Missing some things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, the weather of LA was overturned. In the movie it always rains in California.

      Maybe they were anticipating anthropogenic climate change? ;^)

      But seriously, rain happens in LA. For example, 2005.

      Rain doesn't happen very often, but you never know about future trends...

    3. Re:Missing some things by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

      True there is no point in giving the audience future shock by imagining everything changed the way it probably would be, this would detract from the core story. Plus in less than two hours you don't have the time for a lot of exposition about all the ways society has changed due to new technologies. On the other hand, I often say shows like "Star Trek" are not really science fiction because they persistently ignore the way technology and society might shape each other. The show is just modern Americans with better gadgets. And an inexplicable reverence for farming. TNG had an episode where they "beamed" themselves back into kids, with their adult minds still intact! Astounding, yet nothing ever came of it. To me, science fiction is fiction that explores the implications of technology and human society. ST et al are just fantasy.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    4. Re:Missing some things by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Not in most movies I watched.
      Wait... does it matter that they're all porn?

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    5. Re:Missing some things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cutting out the fluff shows why people criticize the creators of products they pay for:

      People gave me a hard time because...we just did not care.

    6. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2

      Cutting out the fluff shows why people criticize the creators of products they pay for:

      People gave me a hard time because...we just did not care.

      Still don't care! Nyaah, nyaah! Want to get a refund? I won't give you one! Don't like it? Listen to my loud raspberry!

      More seriously, just in case this is the problem, it is a fact that there are a lot of films about people on the autism spectrum, but few films for them.

    7. Re:Missing some things by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      That's because it's always night and it's always raining or at least wet in night shots in movies.

      It is said that Ridley Scott never in his life shot a dry sidewalk.

    8. Re:Missing some things by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      People gave me a hard time because Pixar's A Bugs Life (on which I am credited) had the wrong number of legs on the impossible talking anthropomorphic ants and Antz had the right number of legs on its impossible talking anthromorphic ants. But it wasn't important to telling the story, and we just did not care.

      I've seen authors get plenty of stuff wrong because they "don't care" and clearly feel it's not important. Great way of telling the reader you don't respect their time and breaking suspension of disbelief. The thing is many people try to excuse it with "oh it's fiction/cartoon world/whatever" so anything goes. Unfortunately, one can't logic away breaking the suspension of disbelief.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:Missing some things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are precious too few people with OCD (obsessive cinematic disorder) to give a crap about.

    10. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2

      I've seen authors get plenty of stuff wrong because they "don't care" and clearly feel it's not important. Great way of telling the reader you don't respect their time and breaking suspension of disbelief.

      I think you are underestimating the complication of telling a compelling story while supporting a high level of anatomical realism on what is still an anthropomorphic humanized character. You can enter the Uncanny Valley. Making an anatomically accurate yet anthropomorphic ant was very likely to be making a creepy or repulsive character the audience would not be able to muster any sympathy for. In a situation like that, it's better to abandon realism, and that is what the well-trained animators chose to do.

      People consistently underestimate the complexity of telling a story well in the visual idiom.

    11. Re:Missing some things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People gave me a hard time because Pixar's A Bugs Life (on which I am credited) had the wrong number of legs on the impossible talking anthropomorphic ants and Antz had the right number of legs on its impossible talking anthromorphic ants. But it wasn't important to telling the story, and we just did not care.

      I'm guessing nobody complained about the impossible talking anthropomorphic ants having teeth?

    12. Re:Missing some things by brm · · Score: 1

      District 9 seemed to create sympathetic characters using pretty repulsively realistic buglike characters.

    13. Re:Missing some things by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Just before we start, I like reading and I like thinking about why I like or dislike books. Suspension of disbelief is a funny thing. I'll happily buy into pastel-coloured talking magical ponies then complain bitterly when one does something out of character.

      Even if you're set in a quite unlikely fantasy world, things have to be somewhat consistent, because without consistency, the audience has no hook to hang anything on.Anything can be tweaked or played with, but things have to be set up, not done at random.

      For example, in a cod medieval fantasy setting with magic etc, you expect everything that's not magic to behave more or less like the actual world. For example if magic wasn't used for refining metals, you wouldn't expect people to be wandering round with refined magnesium in the 1400s. It suddenly makes you stop and think "wait what?" and poof! Suspenaion of disbelief broken.

      Now I see this a lot, particularly with some authors. They clearly don't think certain things are important to you so they make all sorts of silly errors that could be solved with seconds on wikipedia. I find those particularly irritating because it gives me a sense of arrogance about the author.

      I think you are underestimating the complication of telling a compelling story while supporting a high level of anatomical realism on what is still an anthropomorphic humanized character.

      That's different from not caring. Sometimes things you need to change because it's the best way of getting things to work. That's fine, but it's different from not caring. Sometimes you have to gloss over things, sometimes you have to tweak things.

      People consistently underestimate the complexity of telling a story well in the visual idiom.

      That's certainly true.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re:Missing some things by hipp5 · · Score: 1

      To me, science fiction is fiction that explores the implications of technology and human society. ST et al are just fantasy.

      I always felt that way about BSG. I absolutely love the updated series, and talk it up to everyone. I invariably get the comment, "Oh, I don't like scifi." And my response is always, "It's not scifi. It's a human drama in a space setting." For example, they have warping ability, but literally all the viewers know about it is that you need coordinates, it's called "FTL", and it has a fancy key to turn it on. The focus isn't on the "sci" at all.

      I've managed to convince many non-nerds to get deeply engrossed in the show.

    15. Re:Missing some things by Megane · · Score: 1

      People gave me a hard time because Pixar's A Bugs Life (on which I am credited) had the wrong number of legs on the impossible talking anthropomorphic ants

      I have a big problem with how Gravity completely ignored the hard reality of orbital mechanics, flitting between orbits as whimsically as walking to the corner convenience-store. And they used not only not impossible but current space hardware. I hope I am right to think there's a difference there! Maybe if they had done it with cartoony space ships (a space version of Cars?), I would be more okay with it. But I still wouldn't watch it.

      I don't watch movies for CGI wank-fests (or mushy "kids" movies which are really aimed at the preconceptions of parents). The only one in at least a decade that I have any interest in now is Ready Player One. Because, ya know, there's an actual written story behind it. Hollywood can't write anymore because it gets in the way of the China and other global market. (Less dialogue means less controversial subjects and less dubbing, so you can argue that they even want it this way.)

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    16. Re:Missing some things by Megane · · Score: 1

      Jar Jar Binks didn't turn off a lot of people because he was ugly.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    17. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      They aren't making the film for you. 99% of the people who viewed Gravity would not have been able to see orbits as wrong immediately while viewing the movie, and would not have felt any dissonance in the mix of vehicles.

      It was always difficult to explain to technical people how the main priority was telling a story and that accuracy was nice, but not really necessary.

      I don't actually like watching movies much, and watch almost no television. It was my perception that a lot of people involved in making television did not watch much (maybe just because they were busy, or maybe they were too smart for most television) but film people were sometimes big consumers of film. I am basically a peaceful soul and don't handle the violence well.

      I have a few high and low moments in films. The Oliver Stone Apollo 11 was a travesty, because it was about a historical event but the portrayal of Grumman's role (they made the LEM) was a nasty fiction. I met Gene Kranz once and when I brought it up, he immediately labeled it "bullshit."

      I don't believe anyone has ever matched the realism of the carousel in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I've never heard of anyone else attempting to construct such a thing.

    18. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      There certainly is lots of lazy script writing and film design, where inconsistencies are introduced and continuity botched. You can afford to have more pride than that if you have a bigger budget.

      If I go to a movie like Gravity and notice an incorrect technical detail, my main thought is not to be offended, but to gently smile in the realization that the movie wasn't made for folks like me, and go on with the story.

    19. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      George Lucas did repeatedly fail in gauging how much stuff he had to put in for little kids, and just how badly it would offend older viewers. Lots of people would have preferred that the Death Star destroy the ewoks. I don't personally know any kids from back then who were interested in ewoks or wanted to view the ewok Christmas special. Not even little kids liked Jar Jar, and Jar Jar toys left on restaurant and store shelves were a pretty big embarrassment for Lucasfilm. In the end the franchise still made tons of money, so these were viewed as survivable mistakes.

    20. Re:Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Slow-motion through the Star Trek Genesis Effect scene and see what Pixar did about flying through a mountain. They didn't have time to re-render more of the scene.

    21. Re:Missing some things by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      (apologies for incoherence. I unexpectedly had a few.)

      There certainly is lots of lazy script writing and film design, where inconsistencies are introduced and continuity botched. You can afford to have more pride than that if you have a bigger budget.

      I'm not sure. Ifreely admit to not being an unbiased reviewer. However, in books (and I suspect films), pride doesn't necessarily correspond with budget. Expanding even further people often do their best work under severe constraints (I know I did). Once budgets expand and freedom grows, direction falters a bit and many people go splat. Look for example at the people who had a ludicrously successful low budget first film who never lived up to their promise in the second well funded film.

      If I go to a movie like Gravity and notice an incorrect technical detail, my main thought is not to be offended, but to gently smile in the realization that the movie wasn't made for folks like me, and go on with the story.

      I didn't see it. I did see interstellar which was a deeply inane movie. But for extra fun I went with two physicists. They started twitching half way through and were nearly incandescent by the end.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    22. Re:Missing some things by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      I have a few high and low moments in films. The Oliver Stone Apollo 11 was a travesty, because it was about a historical event but the portrayal of Grumman's role (they made the LEM) was a nasty fiction. I met Gene Kranz once and when I brought it up, he immediately labeled it "bullshit."

      Which film is this? I'd like to see it, but I'm not finding any Apollo 11 connected with Oliver Stone.

      I don't believe anyone has ever matched the realism of the carousel in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I've never heard of anyone else attempting to construct such a thing.

      Not on that scale, but they built a rotating set for the hallway fight in Inception and it was pretty cool.

      The thing that strikes me now when watching 2001 is the scenes outside the centrifuge, where people are supposed to be weightless but "anchored" by velcro shoes.

      Aside from the lack of necessity to "walk" in zero-gee (a practical necessity for filming at the time) it's painfully obvious that the actors have weight in these scenes, like when Dave and Frank repair the AE-35 sitting on a workbench or when they sit and talk inside the pod. Maybe it's only obvious today, now that we've seen lots of real footage of real astronauts in zero-gee, but it still stands out to me. As you say, most of the audience won't care.

      The Martian mostly got it right, but there are a few gaffes like when people change direction in mid-air without touching anything. Su-per-man!

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    23. Re: Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Oops. Apollo 13.

    24. Re: Missing some things by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      > Oops. Apollo 13.

      I'm not finding any Apollo 13 connected with Oliver Stone. :)

      (j/k - this could only be the Tom Hanks/Ron Howard film)

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    25. Re: Missing some things by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      I just got this completely wrong. The Ron Howard Apollo 13.

  8. Link to non-Tesla story editors refuse to share by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2017/08/29/take-that-tesla-diesel-engine-giant-cummins-unveils-heavy-duty-truck-powered-by-electricity/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

  9. Naive Premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OP assumes in Blade Runner that all things progress linearly. That because we have smart phones today, we will still have it tomorrow. Perhaps the "sharing economy" takes off and pay phones give you what you need wherever and whenever you need it easier.

  10. It's just that Hollywood likes to give people idealistic images to offset the inherent fear of knowing virtually every technology Humanity has developed has been used to exert greater control over people, and that's all which really gets funded. Sci-fi a hundred years ago envisioned an idealistic future where people are traveling the stars and have free energy, now in spite of the technology to achieve it (at least the energy part, an exactly as envisioned via small scale nuclear reactors in every home) the electric bills we get are greater than most people made in a year back then.

    Musk dreams of neural lace and markets it as a miracle which will allow paraplegics to walk and people to control machines with a thought, but you'd be a fool to believe that it will be used for more than controlling the masses, sure it might start with the way the marketing is spun, but it will surely evolve to being a logistically mandatory upgrade to interact with modern society, then once a critical number of people have it the focus will shift toward controlling wrongthink, then it will become mandatory and chances are they'll lock down all the neat gadget control features for anyone but those who can afford to pay extra. Similarly augmented reality will likely tie into neural lace as a form of control and/or rewriting of events as they happen.

    The internet did wonders to connect people, but now that they're connected there's a focus on controlling what is said on it while collecting data on everyone which would have made the most oppressive dictatorships in history envious.

    We might be able to make our wildest dreams come true with technology, but frankly it won't happen because the people who determine what to focus it on and what to take to market are selected on a sociological level to be sociopaths and psychopaths, good people finish last, or at least with a low enough level of influence as to be inconsequential.

    These days being an engineer and releasing anything is practically signing your soul over to the devil because unless you're an utter incompetent you can see how it will be abused and at absolute best can delude yourself into thinking some good might come of it.

    1. Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe you are just tripping over yourself to be cynical?
      There is no conspiracy to turn everything into a way to control us more.
      But the rope lies there on the floor and people choose to hang themselves.
      You dont need college yet people still drop money they dont have on it.
      You dont need a car or a cell phone. Actually the first thing you need to do is secure the rood over your head, just like we did back in the caveman days.

      Good people finish first always. If you keep comparing yourself to the masses of course you will always come in 99999999 place.
      Create your own world, your own family, your own thing and you get to be boss.
      Take out a large loan for worthless paper before you have any money in the bank is hoeing yourself out to the system.
      But of course what would your friends think if you still lived at home with your mom at 25.

      Technologies are not enabling any wildest dreams, they are just tools to piece together goals.

      you can leave your moms home at 18 even if you are middle class check to check, go take out debt for useless paper, and rent high in brooklyn then pay contractors to build for you with your blood money.
      or you could change the game up and hammer your own nails.
      one seems faster than the other. but its just going fast in circles making payments.

      when you become free of this maze you can then right the code that you please and do with it as you please.

    2. Re:Or by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      If you don't inherit land the option you present isn't possible.

    3. Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No conspiracy necessary, water flows downhill and the market self-optimizes. It's convergent evolution. "Technological progress" is nothing but the incidental child of financial gains, and the results are plain to see. The only things that get "researched" are 1) something you can sell immediately or call dibs on (ie drugs research) 2) A market you can cow, or that is already cowed (ie swallow up retirement money; educational facilities require epipens) 3) Defense contracts

      How many articles have you seen across the last twenty years about "we'll have iron man robot suits" and all they talk about is helping people who can't walk or soldiers in "niche" environments. They're after deep, easy pockets, it has nothing to do with society at large. It follows that neither does the sensational headline - because it exists to sell, not inform.

      No conspiracy necessary, just the natural process of everyone looking out for number one. We don't need to harbor a secret organization to develop the panopticon, we'll just leverage what's there.

  11. That's the point by Macdude · · Score: 4, Informative

    Much of Science Fiction takes one or a small number of technological advances and examines how it will impact society, humanity. In Blade Runner it's looking at how the addition of manufactured "humans" will impact people. We examine it through Deckard and how he comes to view them as fully human.

    The payphone isn't important to the story and is simply part of the visual style of the film.

    Blade Runner is a poor example to use for the topic of the article, we don't have replicants so we can't compare how they "got it wrong". If you want to look at how science fiction gets technology wrong, look at something from 50 years ago about how computers are going to change society, then compare it to how computers have actually changed society.

    But even then you're wasting your time because science fiction is not about making accurate predictions, it's about examining current reality by contrasting it with a potential/imagined future.

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    1. Re:That's the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to look at how science fiction gets technology wrong, look at something from 50 years ago about how computers are going to change society, then compare it to how computers have actually changed society.

      That always fascinated me, when reading "golden age" science fiction. It seems the assumption was that "computers" would be for doing calculations (like orbital mechanics) and for data storage & retrieval, but all the intelligence would be in robots.

      Where are those robots? Blade Runner/DADOES just anticipate transhumanism by making the androids progressively more like humans until there is no practical difference, but we haven't even yet made a robot that can reliably take out the trash.

  12. What technologists get wrong about the future. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The future is fiction. By definition, the predicted future is from the imagination. A technologist cannot be grounded in make-believe....and yet.

  13. There is a reason it is called ... by Zorro · · Score: 2

    Science FICTION!

    It isn't supposed to be future reality. It is a mutual day dream to amuse us.

  14. Same thing with real technology by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

    People also imagine inconceivably-complex technology when they think not just about machines that can automatically flip burgers, but machines that can automatically do all the mining, run the refineries, handle the orders, run the farms, slaughter the cows, manufacture the fry cartons and burger wrappers, maintain itself, and maintain all the infrastructure to run the entire economy without a shred of human input. They imagine this is just five years away--they've imagined it was feasible already and just not taken up yet since the 1800s--and so conclude that jobs are going away forever.

    That's not a blind extension of peoples's ignorance, either.

    I've repeatedly brought up that the cost of products is the wage-labor cost, and technology reduces the amount of time (labor) and thus the cost. Market forces set the price as cost plus profit, and those same forces will push it down toward the new cost insofar that further reduction in prices won't increase profits even if all your competitors do it because they won't draw enough of your customers away. Thus people end up working the same hours, getting paid wages, with prices set by those wages (payrolls, really--wage, benefits, tax), and necessarily get an increase in purchasing power. They buy more stuff, which requires more labor to produce, ship, and retail, thus jobs to replace those lost.

    The usual answer?

    People just claim that won't happen anymore because no human labor will be involved at any stage in the entire production process of anything. Very soon. Like, as soon as self-driving cars hit the streets.

    Magical machines of inconceivable design, but they must exist because we can fantasize about them.

    1. Re:Same thing with real technology by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Someone (maybe Asimov) said that short term technological predications were overly optimistic, and long term ones weren't optimistic enough. People who think there will be self driving cars in 5 years (or AI) are the former.

    2. Re:Same thing with real technology by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      It's not just that. People think an apocalypse is coming. Not a technical revolution the likes of which would drive high unemployment and long recovery periods, a collapse of our economy in a new Great Depression or Industrial Revolution which will destroy today's nations and leave our peoples to pick up the pieces and form new works of them; but a complete, unrecoverable end to all employment as humans are no longer needed by their technology.

      Deploying new technology across months or years--early adopters, staged roll-outs, strategic business plans to move early or to wait for a greater ROI, and increases in wealth and demand driving the need for new positions such that rolling out expands some fleets and more-slowly eliminates human positions--gives little bits of unemployment. It bleeds in over time, and the costs amortize and average, and the transitionally-unemployed don't pile up because new jobs become available. The same people who become unemployed don't necessarily get those jobs--we have an unemployed labor pool, and you get tossed in to go play the employment lottery--but the jobs do come back. With these long time spans, that occurs while things change, and so our economy doesn't collapse under the weight.

      Call it "Technical Renaissance", if you will. That's appropriate: I'm not working off the same economic theory as modern economics anyway, as it's a little... primitive... for my tastes. Close, but with a few rough spots.

      Technical Revolution, on the other hand, looks like the Industrial Revolution: you throw out half your workers and deal with a broken economy. Because it's so damaged and yet the carry capacity is so high, it stays broken and sickly for decades. This happens when your recovery is slower than the loss of jobs in oncoming technical progress; and a new, faster rate of progress should result in a faster rate of recovery as well, so you need a major economic event to bring this on. As such, even deploying high technology rapidly won't tear down your economy if it explodes with new business vision and with venture capitalists seizing those opportunities, as well as high competition quickly driving prices down to the new (lower) costs, thus stepping up the cycle of new consumer buying power to keep with the explosive growth. If that explosive growth doesn't happen, the very earth collapses from beneath your feet.

      That's why it's important for the DOT and Congress and whoever else needs to be involved to get regulations out for things like self-driving cars before the technology is ready: if they become mature, cheap, and roadworthy before they're legal, businesses will stack cash and prepare for a massive fleet replacement. Rather than a hundred paper cuts over several months or a few years, we get a pike stabbed into the leg the moment new regulations open the floodgates.

      One target effect of my universal Social Security plan is to improve the pace of recovery. It takes a chunk (15%) of all income, so it moves that proportion of new productivity down into the consumer base before the market readjusts prices. It also acts as a continuous economic stimulus, and so encourages continuous recovery. As well, it stabilizes American households which have lost jobs, and supports the poorest households with a basis of aid.

      This basis reduces the cost of means-tested aid and social insurances by raising the financial starting position of low-income households, making HUD housing assistance and TANF aid cheaper and more-effective services, and providing Social Security permanent solvency in its OASDI program. Because of how the taxes are taken and distributed, it's effectively negative-cost in nature at the bottom and in the middle, and so low in cost at the top that the top effective tax bracket falls from 39.6% to 35.8% in total. Business income tax falls to 33.2% or thereabouts (I haven't memorized this number and don't care to go look), increasing the agility of businesses to respond to change; an

    3. Re:Same thing with real technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fear isn't that automation will unemploy everyone, but that automation will unemploy a large sector of low-skill workers -- large enough to cause political disruption if not managed. Your "increase in purchasing power" above will be unevenly distributed, perhaps wildly so.

    4. Re:Same thing with real technology by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Someone (maybe Asimov) said that short term technological predications were overly optimistic, and long term ones weren't optimistic enough. People who think there will be self driving cars in 5 years (or AI) are the former.

      Well most AI is "just" automation and heuristics on steroids, where I find the most predictions fail are those that border between technology and physics like fusion reactors, flying cars, supersonic passenger airplanes and so on. That SpaceX can make a rocket land is an incredible trick of technology, but it doesn't bring us any closer to a warp drive.

      Right now I think there's so much money spent on researching self-driving cars it will happen, it's like when they pumped billions and billions into Amazon and even if there was a dot-bust the brick and mortar business was never the same again. Personally I think that when we let an AI control a ton of metal travelling at 50+ MPH in an uncontrolled environment it'll be the icebreaker to far more coexistence instead of safety cages.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  15. Really... by jimbo · · Score: 1

    No shit, Sherlock!

  16. Dystopian techology backslide by Diakoneo · · Score: 1

    To a degree, a dystopian future implies that at least SOME technologies would actually backslide. We see evidence in movies like Star Wars when lightsabers become unknown. Or books like Frank Herbert's 'Dune' with computers. The technology existed at some point in the past, but reverted due to significant societal stresses. It may be that payphones make a comeback when some global threat manages to take out all the cell phone towers.

    --
    "Just as there is nothing so unreal as reality TV, there is nothing as unsocial as social media." - Alistair Dabbs
  17. SF isn't really predictive by Angst+Badger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole idea that SF predicts the future is just marketing speak for SF books and movies. It succeeds occasionally, but so does religious prophecy: make enough predictions, and you score some hits, but at the cost of many more misses.

    As far as Blade Runner (and most SF) goes, the writers seldom sit down to prognosticate. Most of them think of an interesting premise and see where it goes.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    1. Re:SF isn't really predictive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The relationship between science fiction and future science is more inspirational. How many people out there are trying to build a tricorder because of Star Trek? JAXA actually had a space elevator aspiration at one point, which is an idea directly from Arthur C. Clark's The Fountains of Paradise. Clarke also came up with the idea for geosynchronous satellites.

  18. Wait - Posting a spoiler alert for an old movie by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 1

    Seriously,

    If I talk about the Wizard of Oz - do I have to say Spoiler alert still? Does this apply to books as well? Spoiler alert - Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep has androids in it - and not modern phones either

    --
    I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
    1. Re:Wait - Posting a spoiler alert for an old movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real spoiler alert is the answer to the question "Is Rick Deckard an android?" And the answer is........ughhhhh.

  19. to further hammer on the example... by Ghostworks · · Score: 1

    (This post has nothing to do with the thrust of the article: that people's minds leap quickly to obvious-but-nigh-impossible things rather than possible-but-subtly. But they made the mistake of putting forth an example (Blade Runner) which is more interesting to talk about than the premise itself, so here's some comments on sci-fi storytelling.)

    If the past is another country, the future is an alien planet. We can conjecture on a number of technologies that may become available, or even practical and common, and others which will fail or die off -- though our track record on all of these is pretty shoddy -- but if pursued rigorously and thoroughly, along every human pursuit, what you'll get is a slice of life that's utterly incomprehensible to your audience.

    For example, we could (and did) predict a network like the internet, but no one really understood what it would be like to be connected to everything all the time. It's just as foreign for people growing up today that something as trivial as an address, driving directions, a phone number to be known to someone, even many people, but not to you. (Something as ridiculous as a 31-month FBI investigation to determine the true lyrics and possible obscenity of the song Louie Louie seems utterly impossible now, even for the Federal government.) Looking back, you can understand it, if not really appreciate it. Looking forward, it's incomprehensible.

    We don't aim to predict the future because 1) we are very likely to fail, and 2) succeeding would make a bad setting for a story to be understood by any modern audience. This is why most movies either go "five minutes into the future" (where very little fundamentally changes, but you focus deeply on those changes) or else hundreds of years in the future where anything and everything could have plausibly changed. In either case, you can believably put forth a setting that is mostly familiar to an audience, where you can be sure that any difference you see is actually relevant to the story.

    1. Re:to further hammer on the example... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      For example, we could (and did) predict a network like the internet, but no one really understood what it would be like to be connected to everything all the time.

      E M Forster nailed what social media would be like in an always connected world, in 1909. The details of the tech are obviously rather far off, but it seems he understood people.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:to further hammer on the example... by tsqr · · Score: 1

      For example, we could (and did) predict a network like the internet, but no one really understood what it would be like to be connected to everything all the time.

      Get yourself a copy of John Brunner's The Shockwave Rider (1976). You're in for a treat.

  20. If uninvented inventions were obvious.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they would already be invented.

    (In other words, we know that computers are going to get smaller and faster, we know that batteries are going to get smaller and store more charge, etc. What we can't easily predict is what effect new tech is going to have on future generations, because if we could easily predict that, the patents would already be filed today.)

  21. What we got wrong here. by geekmux · · Score: 2

    "...we humans...often tend to leap to technologies that are sophisticated beyond comprehension."

    An iPad can be easily operated by a 3-year old. You call that sophisticated?

    What has grown beyond comprehension here is the fact that we are now forced to make technical devices idiot-proof in order for the masses to use them.

    Put down the sci-fi bong and quit taking hits off fiction and fantasy.

    1. Re:What we got wrong here. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      An iPad can be easily operated by a 3-year old. You call that sophisticated?

      Yes, absolutely. Making it lightweight, with a consistent, easy to use UI _is_ sophisticated.

    2. Re:What we got wrong here. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      An iPad can be easily operated by a 3-year old. You call that sophisticated?

      Yes, absolutely. Making it lightweight, with a consistent, easy to use UI _is_ sophisticated.

      I suppose it does take a certain level of sophistication and finesse with designs today in order to accept the fact that society continues to lower the bar and build a better idiot. Manufacturers would be stupid to walk away from that much revenue.

    3. Re:What we got wrong here. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen much in the way of signs of a "better idiot". What's happening is that life is getting more complicated, largely due to technical and economic issues, and people are less able to cope. It looks to me like the bar is getting raised.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:What we got wrong here. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen much in the way of signs of a "better idiot". What's happening is that life is getting more complicated, largely due to technical and economic issues, and people are less able to cope. It looks to me like the bar is getting raised.

      Technology has become idiot-proof in many ways, in response to an ever-growing crowd of consumers who have zero desire (and now zero need) to actually become proficient with technology in any way. Hardware doesn't ship with an operating manual anymore because of the K.I.S.S. design. And as the world flattens, there are entire markets that are being exposed to technology for the first time, which you have to design and cater to that natural ignorance as well in order to capitalize on it.

      Life may be getting more complicated in other ways, but this doesn't dismiss the fact that the masses today have the luxury if remaining rather ignorant about their idiot-proof devices now. Unfortunately, ignorance can also create a victim rather easily, which tends to speak to the half-billion dollar ransomware industry.

  22. Stacks of PADDs by Grincho · · Score: 1

    And yet it's not uncommon at my house to see a stack of phones and tablets on a table. I resolve it in my mind as an acknowledgement that we'll never be rid of UI gaffes or incompatibilities.

  23. Blame the Screen Writer by Sindar+By+Choice · · Score: 0

    I constantly see things in films, whether Sci-Fi or not, that are annoying and not thought out well.
    The suspension of disbelief plays an important role, especially when some script writer has us all in his/her world.
    The script writer can create a story, or a world that is completely believable, regardless of whether it matches our existing science.
    That usually isn't the case though.

  24. mostly the same is realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you look at the companies that have all the money (Google, Facebook, Amazon), and look at the borderline retarded "innovation" that is either A) copying each other, or B) New way to trick people into allowing harvesting of their private data, or trick them into buying shit they don't need, then the thought that we won't have any spectacular advances in the next 20-30 years is totally plausible.

    TL;DR. It's totally realistic that our shit overlords are shit.

  25. My thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have time to read this whole thing, but my opinion on "what we get wrong with technology" is that we take way too many baby steps. It seems obvious where we are headed in the long run, but I think we take the baby steps, to give the masses time to adapt and adjust. I just wonder how far along technology could be if we skipped all of these interim steps, which take forever to build, and don't much resemble the end goal.

  26. It was a movie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People are supposed to relate to the protagonists. That means a world and social norms diverging where futuristic elements seminal to the plot come into play, and remaining similar and relateable where they don't. Remember the scene with the greasy Chinese (?) merchant?

  27. Seems like a good place or this by HeckRuler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had an idea a while ago about the the failings of retro-futurism.

    StarWars, StarTrek, The Expanse, Firefly, and pretty much any space opera are all based around the idea of spaceships with people flying in them. Like space is just an extension of the oceans and seas. But that's pretty silly. Robots do a hell of a lot better job with fewer requirements and no need to bring them back. The more and more autonomous they get the less we even need to be in contact with them.

    We won't have people handling drills on Mars getting core samples. We won't have gunners tracking tie-fighters like AA flak cannons. We won't have navigators plotting courses on a bench with calipers and charts. These are all visions of the future which are simply wrong. As wrong as Decker using a payphone. We need to let go of the sci-fi tropes born 50 years ago in the 70's.

    And then it came to me: Make a show where EVERYTHING on the spaceship has to be done by hand. Valves need to be opened, there's a switchboard operator for the intercom, there's a guy that turns the big steering wheel, pilots in the fighters need to manually target the guns. And you never tell the audience (But you drop plenty of hints) that the entire crew are all programs and computers. The main characters are some sort of AGI or bullshit awakened programs. The background characters are more like cron jobs and scripts. There's some mystical god-like creature in cryostatis which must be preserved, an actual human. The bots operate on a genetic algorithm system of judging fitness to see who lives and who is selected to procreate. They're all military conscripts and expendable second-class citizens. On the ship there's exactly 2 rooms people do things because that's the main processor and the backup. Quick-clones are a thing as copying programs is trivial. A fighter pilot dies and a copy shows up wondering how his last clone screwed up. This sort of computer-metaphor list goes on and on. I think it'd make a good show.

    1. Re:Seems like a good place or this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a fucking brilliant idea. Write it, goddamn you.

  28. Entertainment is made to entertain by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    Even non-entertainment predictions are often made to entertain -- and the ones that come to widespread public attention are almost always made to entertain because, well, they're more entertaining. An actual realistic projection of future tech not made to entertain would be a dry, boring read that got tossed a trash can.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  29. The big ideas inspire us by Whibla · · Score: 1

    I'd sat the author is basically right. While it is the 'big ideas' that inspire us, make us dare to dream, it's the 'little things' that conspire to change the world we live in while our attention is focused elsewhere.

    While practically everyone posting so far has fixated on the Blade Runner part of his article (sci fi is... , film noir... , technological regression... , etc) in doing so you're essentially ignoring his point. It's not the big new things that change the world, it's a combination of little old things, things we no longer consider 'important' or earth shattering that, because of synergies (please excuse the buzzwords), suddenly come into their own, with unforeseen and potentially shocking consequences - well shocking in the sense of a radical social upheaval or, at least, a change in the social order.

    Of course with eagle eye hindsight it's easy to see how all those threads have come together to create our existing social fabric, it's another thing entirely to predict the next big little thing.

    My money (if I had any) is on floating farms, and a second wind for the gm 'revolution' alongside the already transitioning energy supply and nature of transportation. Oh, and more robotics - no great insight there - but to a certain degree that ship has already sailed. I can't imagine modern day manufacturing without robots, so I'm not sure how much influence 'more' is really going to have. Then again, if I had any gift at prognostication I'd probably have money, so you should take anything I say about the future with a large pinch of salt. ;-)

  30. what the column gets wrong about sci fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many people think sci fi is about predicting the future. Its not, it is about projecting tne present, through one conceit, to sharpen the contrast... illuminating the human condition.

    So the col7mnist is just wrong to point fingers at minutia in Blade Runner, he misses the point entirely

  31. Bullshit article ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not simply that Blade Runner fumbled its futurism by failing to anticipate the smartphone. That's a forgivable slip

    And what is to say we will have smart phones in 20 years?

    I hate futurists because they come up with crap which nobody is ever going to pay for and which will never happen due to the cost ... but I loathe idiots like this who think now is the future and there will be no further changes and that failure to describe things exactly as they are now is some kind of failing.

    A possible future is not all possible futures. And Blade runner was never attempting to capture everything which could exist int he future.

    Maybe in 20 years internet terminals will be like light switches, and carrying one around would be like walking around with your own fucking lamp?

    This is an idiotic article, precisely because the author makes the unforgivable slip of assuming that because we have smart phones now we always will have cell phones, and any speculative future must be wrong for failing to include something which may itself be transient.

    All this hand wringing is just pointless BS intended to drive traffic to some idiot's tech blog ... who fucking cares if Blade Runner didn't capture everything in it? And who is to say that in 20 years a smart phone won't be a quaint idea like a pet rock that nobody takes seriously any more?

    1. Re:Bullshit article ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      True, in the future we may not have anything recognizable as a smart phone, or comlink, or whatever. However, we aren't going backwards. Pay phones existed because people could not carry phones or the equivalent with them, and they're inferior to personal portable phones.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  32. Generation Gap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember using MS-DOS (in fact, I remember having to load my external disk drive for my Atari computer with DOS 1-point-something...) and agonizing over the lack of long file names and wondering when MS would catch up to the competition which had them. The only thing remarkable about Windows was the time it took MS to finally enable unlimited UNICODE file names...oh, wait - it STILL doesn't. What kind of idiots would design a file system in which the path length is so severely limited?
    I'll guess that the OP was by someone who lacks much "life experience". IMHO, what is remarkable about smartphones isn't the technology (I believe they'd be almost as popular without a touch screen - with either arrow buttons or a ball, a pad, or stick) but rather the psychological dependence that most people fall into with them. I think that would be a hard, if not impossible, thing to predict; it's certainly couldn't have been (reliably) predicted from our knowledge of the human mind prior to the late '90s.

  33. Missing bits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the time it was written, pay phones were all over, and a basic way of life, so it made sense to continue on with them, albeit in an upgraded way. A future with a lack of them simply didn't make sense at the time.

  34. Future is unknowable by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

    To a certain degree, this is the ineffable nature of invention. You do not know what twists and turns it will take until it happens. You can try to logically extend the consequences of an invention that you think up (like video phones or humanoid robots in the 1980s) but until it happens, real world inventions are by definition un-knowable. (If you knew what real world inventions would be created, you could make a killing running a business or trading in the stock market.)

    Part of what made Blade Runner such a good movie was that unlike Star Trek and that ilk, it portrayed a dystopian future fraught with massive inequality, where the haves lived in massive wealth, while the have nots lived in relative poverty. The method used to portray those differences were more important to the story than the Scifi backdrop.

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    1. Re:Future is unknowable by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Part of what made Blade Runner such a good movie was that unlike Star Trek and that ilk, it portrayed a dystopian future fraught with massive inequality, where the haves lived in massive wealth, while the have nots lived in relative poverty. The method used to portray those differences were more important to the story than the Scifi backdrop.

      We live in a present with massive inequality. The key phrase you used above though is *relative* poverty. Think about poor people in the U.S. Chances are good that a single-parent family that lives below the poverty line still has food, shelter, clothing, electricity, running water, refrigeration, an oven/stove/microwave, free education and medical care. Probably television, cable, internet, cell phones and game consoles too. Basically the poor in the U.S. today live a better standard of living than rich people who lived in the U.S. 100 years ago could have ever dreamed of.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  35. John W. Campbell, Jr. once said... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    As John W. Campbell, Jr. once said, if a story tries to predict all the advances that are likely, it will be unintelligible. Even if you could correctly predict how everything would change, to do so would be a horrendous mistake for an author, because nobody (including the editor) would understand the story.

    I've got to admit that I don't remember blade-runner, it didn't really impress me. The pictures were nice, but the projected future was trite. (OTOH, I've been reading Science Fiction since the 1950's, and so am not the target audience.) So this is a criticism of the point made in the summary.

    That said, if you want to understand how poorly we can predict things, look at "A Logic Named Joe" https://www.google.com/search?... for an early guess as what the internet might be like if it were ever invented. There the internet is an important background element that's reasonably well developed, not just something incidental, but also not the central story element. If you want to understand why, read Ray Kurtzweil's "The Age of Spiritual Machines". (That was written long enough ago that you can judge how valid you think his arguments are.)

    But the real thing is, when making predictions we tend to predict things that we currently feel are important, whether good or bad, but a lot of the decisions are made by other people who see other possibilities. Henry Ford never set out to revise the sexual mores of the world, but that's one of the things he did.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    1. Re:John W. Campbell, Jr. once said... by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      Obviously nobody is obliged to like something, but I think you are giving Bladerunner a bum rap and if you are a fan of classic SF you really are the target audience (or at least more likely to get it). The difference is that where classic SF was about how technology impacts the world, Bladerunner is about how people deal with their lives when technology makes it unclear what is actually real.

      Phillip K Dick isn't for everyone, since his stories do tend to be people focused rather than technology focused - about people's small lives as reality falls apart for whatever reason. The future tends to be a minor backdrop rather than a focus. I personally think Bladerunner is the best attempt at capturing the felling of PKD whilst also making it more palatable to a mainstream audience (but you do have to concentrate a bit or it could come across as a cheesy scifi cop movie).

      Anyway, tldr; - if you don't remember Bladerunner I'd give it another go, it might surprise you if you can get past the 'triteness' (to be honest, its the use of trite that made me write this as I just don't get that at all).

      On the other hand, maybe it only works on more levels if you've read the book :)

    2. Re:John W. Campbell, Jr. once said... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, I generally didn't like Phillip K. Dick, though I admit he was a good writer, just not one to my taste. But I wasn't surprised in not being impressed by the movie. Most people seem to think "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" a good book, and almost never does a good book make a good movie. They always end up trivializing it, and ruining a good idea because it doesn't make good visuals. OTOH, bad books have occasionally made good movies...probably for the same reason (though I haven't seen enough of them to be sure).

      In this case using a pay phone is a trivial thing to complain about. The problem I found with it was there wasn't anything really good about it. I was impressed by the visuals, but that's not what a good story is about. I'm not going to see it again because I don't want to give the MPAA it's rake-off.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  36. Re:That's the point - the missed point by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    Much of Science Fiction takes one or a small number of technological advances and examines how it will impact society, humanity.

    But Harford's point (I read the article when it was published a couple of months ago) is that the approach doesn't work. You cannot say "This story explores the relationships between humans and androids" and then only make it about them.

    The reason is that the development of androids does not happen in isolation, without a load of supporting technological developments. Ones that would have knock-on effects on everything else.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  37. Wrong! The payphone matters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Deckard was ashamed of his interest. To conceal his actions from review, he didn't use his personal phone.

  38. The Assumption Of Future Technology by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Right now people ignore serious issues as they assume science and technology will save them. For example we have a world food shortage and a quickly growing population. The public assume that some sort of magical farm science will enable the massive increase in food production that is already needed and increases every day. Science is not a savior. It is foolish to simply assume that many problems will be solved or controlled. The reverse psychology needs to be in play. For example we probably can not feed 14 billion souls and therefore must limit reproduction until such time that we can feed and house that many people. So yes, fund science big time, encourage science, teach science. But make the public very aware that many goals may never be reached. Problems that occur with technology are rarely noticed. For example most people feel some concern about self driving cars crashing. But how many of those same people take into account that traffic driving offenses would cease to exist. The police departments live over the fines they collect. In essence self driving cars might mean the loss of police departments. Or it may mean that a new tax must be placed upon the people to replace the traffic fine income. The punishment we used to apply to guilty drivers would then be paid by innocent people as well.

  39. Whoa... You sir are thinking about it all wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not that we humans think about the future in some limited or incorrect fashion.

    As others pointed out. The videophone was a means to an end to move the story along while still putting effort into thinking about how it "might" look/work. I have a feeling that even if they would have made it something other than a stationary pay phone you would have found fault in that too. When making these such films the producers must strike a balance between "the future" and a known current reality so that viewers can relate and therefore an entertaining movie is created.

    They didnt get it wrong. They didnt do a poor job of imagining the future.

    The fact is that in the far majority of futuristic movies the biggest and boldest, most life altering, inventions are presented to the audience. And you know what, us humans end up doing a fine job of keeping that vision of the future in mind while developing all kinds of interesting tech to achieve the envisions future tech as portrayed in these movies.

       

  40. A depiction of decay. by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

    The city in Blade Runner is populated by those who could not afford "a chance to begin again, in a golden land of opportunity and adventure". It is a depiction of urban decay, with rotting half-abandoned buildings such as The Bradbury, where J. F. Sebastian lived. Why would an old-fashioned phone booth be out of place?

    1. Re:A depiction of decay. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The city in Blade Runner is populated by those who could not afford "a chance to begin again, in a golden land of opportunity and adventure". It is a depiction of urban decay

      And it's something which is almost invariably forgotten by the futurists who tell us we will have these gleaming cities with moving sidewalks and elegant displays in the walls, or how the roads will be re-built to have sensors to allow the self-driving cars to keep track of one another ... and it's also why those awesome technologies of the future will never really come to pass, precisely because they ignore who is going to pay for it, and who is going to get left behind.

      Blade Runner shows the decaying pile of shit left behind for the rest of us along side of the shiny splendor -- not that was the primary intention of the work.

      All of the gleeful futurists who think we'll all be in sparkling white clothes amid gleaming technology? They'd do well to stop and realize the reason most of us don't give a shit is because we know it will never happen, or if it does, it won't benefit most of us.

      Technology which will only benefit the 1%? That is utter fiction, or utterly irrelevant to the real world. Nobody is going to pay to rebuild cities, they'll just build little enclaves for the rich.

  41. The payphone made the scene great by radub · · Score: 0

    I can't see Ford acting with a handheld mobile in front of him, trying to do an emotional videocall ... while starring at a wall-mounted prop, well, that scene turned out quite well ...

    1. Re:The payphone made the scene great by TWX · · Score: 1

      So follow the "hello moto" model and introduce a projector screen into a portable videophone, use a blank section of wall to stare at.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  42. Phone parts are not nec. brains parts by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I find the payphone dig unfair criticism. For one, it was hard to know then if airwaves could carry all the signals needed for consumer cell-phones. It took a while to perfect signal compression and other issues.

    Second, it was hard to know if miniaturization of electronics (Moores' law) would continue. In fact, by many accounts it's stopping now. It's not really a law, just a recent pattern, with no guarantee of continuing.

    You may then argue that if one assumes miniaturization slows, how come they have androids (strong AI) in the flick? But that assumes miniaturization is/was needed to get decent AI. There's no inherent law of the universe that says AI has to come from miniaturization. Perhaps a new algorithm or computing substance could be discovered to get AI without relying on shrinking parts. For example, if most the android's entire body is a "brain", then it's merely a big computer to get big computations. Or maybe an organic substance that's good for artificial brains but NOT for cell-phone miniaturization.

    The accusers are biased by actual history where our AI advances HAPPENED TO come from mostly the same advances that our phones used. That wasn't an obvious or required assumption back then.

    On a different aspect, the article made an interesting point in that the first electric motors didn't help factories much because the factories simply replaced the centralized steam systems with electric motors. It wasn't until factories decentralized power distribution that the real advantage of electricity played out. The environment around the gizmo has to change to fit the new technology before its benefits show.

    Jet planes were similar: early attempts mostly just slapped a jet engine on a propeller-intended design, meaning performance often wasn't good enough to justify the extra cost and maintenance it required. It's only when planes were reworked around jet engines and the new speed that real results came. Most wind tunnels of the time didn't even have enough power to simulate jet speeds. They had to build new ones.

    1. Re:Phone parts are not nec. brains parts by Megane · · Score: 1

      I find the payphone dig unfair criticism. For one, it was hard to know then if airwaves could carry all the signals needed for consumer cell-phones. It took a while to perfect signal compression and other issues.

      Old mobile phones only had about 50 or so channels available for a whole city because they used "regular" long-distance radio communication. There was really one main innovation that made cell phones possible, and that was the cell tower. Someone had to think of a whole new way to use the broadcast bandwidth for cell phones to become possible.

      Having little computers (inside what was originally a big bag) to make sure the switching happened was important, but not nearly as important as breaking up the band into small low-power areas. Smaller coverage areas also meant that the devices themselves needed less power, because they didn't need to transmit as far.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:Phone parts are not nec. brains parts by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In a few of Heinlein's juveniles, people have phones on them at pretty much all times. This wasn't a technical prediction. It was a prediction of what people would want, with an assumption that we'd figure out how to do it.

      Any society with Earth-produced nonhuman intelligent, be it biological or silicon, will be an advanced civilization. It's reasonable to think that little things would be around.

      There's a movie "Cast a Deadly Spell" with "Phil" Lovecraft as a private eye in a world where magic was developed in WWII and brought back. There's a few subtle scenes of what happens. In one, a man cups his hand around a cigarette and it lights In another, an out-of-focus railway porter walks along in the background with a train of suitcases following the one he's holding. It isn't exactly great cinema, but it got the casual throwaways right.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  43. Cyberpunk Sci-fi is different from Futurism by XSportSeeker · · Score: 1

    Blade Runner is not a prediction of the future, it's science fiction adapted for the big screen.
    And as such, it's not about portrayal of future based on attempts of getting it accurate or right, but rather using what serves the plot best.
    Still, this is a kind of naive approach to analysis of futurism in general. Anyone could pick a future prediction and say we do it wrong because of this or that. One could just as well pick another example to say we center too much on mundane everyday life stuff and don't focus enough on sophisticated technologies beyond comprehension.
    Truth of the matter is: we don't know because there are just too many variables.
    Often, the select few that "gets it right" is mostly by chance, or by some insider look that enables them to tell that the chances of certain types of technologies progressing have good chances of becoming a new paradigm. And the press and general media makes good work of selecting those who got it right to say they were visionaires or some such.

    Here's the thing: we're all producing some level of futurism ourselves. The ones that gets attention are those who can present it to a major public with strong enough ideas that drives peoples' imaginations. By design, the brand of popular futurism will mostly get it wrong because it needs to be far fetched to get peoples' attention.
    Boring, down to earth predictions usually gets burried, no one cares.

  44. What journalists get wrong about technology by Miamicoastguard · · Score: 0

    FTFY

  45. This is more exception to the rule, IMO .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Blade Runner was a movie that relied a lot on the "ambience". The gritty feel of the city and how relate-able some of it is to what you might encounter every day helps set the tone.

    A lot of current sci-fi I've watched seems to do a pretty good job of trying to guess what the "little things" will be like in future daily life, though. TV series like Humans or Extant, for example? Lots of predictions about the style and functionality of self-driving vehicles, home automation with hand gesture controls, etc.

    In other shows like the reboot of Battlestar Galactica, the old technology on board was very purposeful - to prevent Cylons from infecting and hijacking it.
     

  46. All you have to do is live a long time. by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What you'll find is that the bounds of technology and the line over which lies "miraculous" territory get pushed back simultaneously, because they're inextricably linked.

    To me the single biggest everyday miracle is that I can put a string of text into Google and get hundreds of thousands of hits back spanning the sum of human ... well let's say data rather than knowledge; and that it comes back in what for practical purposes is instantaneously while at the same time millions of other people are doing exactly the same thing.

    When I stop to think of it, which is fairly often, it strikes me as the very next thing to magic, even though as an engineer with a degree in computer science I have at least some idea of the things that make this possible. Yet it is the most ordinary and unremarkable thing to my children, who have never known a time without it, it's the most unremarkable thing imaginable.

    Earlier generations of engineers probably felt the same way about radio.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  47. What you got wrong?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of simplifying life and making it more pleasurable. You made life harder and more complicated. Driven by greed and profit.

  48. Or what they got right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The more interesting thing (which I realize is partly the thesis of TFA, though not the title) is what they got *right* here: Blade Runner was set in 2019, i.e. nearly now, and LA *doesn't* look that much different than in the 1980s. Sure, certain neighborhoods are nicer, some less nice, it's somewhat less polluted, the cars are different models, etc. But in terms of large scale things? I think you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference in the urban landscape.

    This wasn't always true: a 1960 city looked a hell of a lot different than an 1893 one. Going the same distance the other way from 1960, the difference is a great deal less. For all of the technological marvels of the last half century, the way we live really hasn't changed that much.

    Our large-scale progress is deeply iterative now and will probably stay that way for a long time to come; in another 57 years, in 2074, I would expect to see cities that look a lot like today's, though hopefully with a higher ratio of electric/gas cars.

  49. Maybe it's accurate about a parallel future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm surprised no one though of this. Sci-fi stories love to speculate about parallel dimensions and/or alternate universes. We should not suddenly declare that sci-fi is meant to predict our future, then declare it wrong if it doesn't match. What if it precisely matches a parallel dimension's future? Besides, it's "fiction", anyway... Who cares if it's "wrong" about the future?

  50. SETI is not a toy by epine · · Score: 1

    StarWars, StarTrek, The Expanse, Firefly, and pretty much any space opera are all based around the idea of spaceships with people flying in them.

    That's because Westerns were based on horses with people riding them.

    Rockets are just mechanical horses.

    You can tell hard science fiction by a simple test: no one goes anywhere. You get a transmission. Decoding it might lead to a set of events that end your civilization, but only if your transmission doesn't end theirs first.

    In the movie Contact, Earth goes ahead and builds a machine it doesn't comprehend, then stupidly switches it on.

    Maybe you luck into a constructive alliance. Maybe you don't.

    SETI is not a toy.

  51. meh... by sad_ · · Score: 1

    ... who cares about such details? all sci-fi space movies from before 2000 have crt screens in their space ships, which is ridiculous if you think about it now, but does it ruin the expirience of watching Alien? Not at all...

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  52. What he got wrong about the story by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

    Blade Runner AKA Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? is set in a dystopian future where the ultra wealthy corporate types have amazing resources and the masses have next to nothing.

    Did he even see the movie or read Phil Dick's book? We are already headed towards a future where corporations have AI and the masses would be lucky to find a phone of any kind.

    --
    Greed is the root of all evil.
  53. The OP Is Based Upon a False Premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP suggests that Sci-Fi "gets it wrong" by incorrectly predicting the future.

    This is entirely wrong. Sci-Fi was never meant to predict the future! At most Sci-Fi is meant to predict one possible future and even that is pushing the matter right to the proverbial wall. The story is the thing, not predictive ability.

    In fact I believe the whole "Sci-Fi has successfully predicted the future many times" meme was simply an observation made a few decades ago. Writers and reviewers marveled that this literary genre had, in fact, made important observations about where technology and humanity might go.

    However this was limited to specific Sci-Fi plot features. If you transpose entire story narratives into the present, the whole intellectual proposition fails big time.

    Did Sci-Fi predict cell phones/smartphones, satellites, and various other things? Sure, if you take a broad view. However if you take the entirety of Arthur C. Clarke's I Robot series, for example, Clarke was far off base about many things. One important matter he got wrong was his entire premise that humanity would instinctually fear robots, and this fear would shape society's adoption of robots in every way.