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Boston Red Sox Used Apple Watches To Steal Hand Signals From Yankees (macrumors.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Mac Rumors: Investigators for Major League Baseball believe the Boston Red Sox, currently in first place in the American League East, have used the Apple Watch to illicitly steal hand signals from opposing teams, reports The New York Times. The Red Sox are believed to have stolen hand signals from opponents' catchers in games using video recording equipment and communicated the information with the Apple Watch. An inquiry into the Red Sox' practice started two weeks ago following a complaint from Yankees general manager Brian Cashman, who caught a member of the Red Sox training staff looking at his Apple Watch in the dugout and then relaying information to players. It's believed the information was used to determine the type of pitch that was going to be thrown. Baseball investigators corroborated the claim using video for instant replay and broadcasts before confronting the Red Sox. The team admitted that trainers received signals from video replay personnel and then shared them with some players.
"The Red Sox told league investigators said that team personnel scanning instant- replay video were electronically sending the pitch signs to the trainers, who were then passing the information to the players," reports The New York Times. [...] "The video provided to the commissioner's office by the Yankees was captured during the first two games of the series and included at least three clips. In the clips, the team's assistant athletic trainer, Jon Jochim, is seen looking at his Apple Watch and then passing information to outfielder Brock Holt and second baseman Dustin Pedroia, who was injured at the time but in uniform. In one instance, Pedroia is then seen passing the information to Young."
"The Red Sox told league investigators said that team personnel scanning instant- replay video were electronically sending the pitch signs to the trainers, who were then passing the information to the players," reports The New York Times. [...] "The video provided to the commissioner's office by the Yankees was captured during the first two games of the series and included at least three clips. In the clips, the team's assistant athletic trainer, Jon Jochim, is seen looking at his Apple Watch and then passing information to outfielder Brock Holt and second baseman Dustin Pedroia, who was injured at the time but in uniform. In one instance, Pedroia is then seen passing the information to Young."
White Sox last time, now the Red Sox? What's with teams named after socks?
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Red Sox now the new Black Sox?
...because one of their products was used to demonstrate that people take 'sport' way too seriously.
Requiem for the American Dream
So fucking what.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
What is the difference between this and stealing another team's signs, which happens -all the time-?
It's been happening for over a century, in fact.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Can someone please explain how what the Red Sox did was wrong? Is there a rule against observing your opponents? Is it only wrong if it involves an Apple product?
"You can observe a lot by watching." -- Yogi Berra
So once these signs were stolen was the opposing team no longer able to use them? How were these signs returned once the thieves had been caught?
Apart from the use of technology, which might be banned from the field, this seems like a perfectly legitimate tactic.
I have noticed a inverse correlation between people who like sports and people who are good at logic, math and technology.
Sports are where you put the slow children.
Another article I saw made it clear the rule violation would be the use of electronic devices in the dugout. The view of major league baseball is that sign stealing is part of the game, but electronic devices are banned to keep it from being too easy and getting out of hand.
But how are the New England Patriots involved? It just sounds like their sort of thing.
you know, stealing on steroids
When are they going to ditch that boring game and replace it with Blernsball?
Until they start adhering to the salary cap, they deserve whatever underhanded tactics any other team may use.
Say it ain't so. Joe.
God I hate the Yankees, why couldn't they have been the ones? Confirm my biases, reality!
The opposing team just needs to up their game and hack their apple accounts, or nearby wifi or cel towers. Maybe someone has a jammer installed in their mound. Then countermeasures for those countermeasures...
You too, mr haxxor, could play for the yankees!
Evolution of the game, right?
-
and agree with you. "So fucking what."
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Major League Baseball will reportedly allow coaches and team personnel to wear Apple Watches in the dugout during games— while continuing to ban other electronic devices, including cell phones— as long as the Watch is not used for communication.
http://appleinsider.com/articl... In 2016 iPads were allowed in the dugout with some restrictions:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/ct-mlb-ipads-dugout-20160330-story.html
Whoever got caught glancing at his watch should have used AirPods. Perhaps they are too expensive even for MLB personnel.
What is it about Boston teams that a) they're always cheating and b) they're stupid enough to get caught cheating?
I mean, Cameragate, Deflategate and now this AppleWatchgate. More steroid users than a Mr Universe competition. Corked bats, doctored baseballs and high slides. Beanballs.
I really don't care as long as nobody refers to them as the "Sox", because everyone knows that "Sox" refers to the one true Sox, my Chicago White Sox, pride of the South Side. They can take their filthy-ass, broken-down stadium and march straight into the sea. Nothing good ever came out of Boston.
Boston is hot garbage.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If only the Yankees had copyrighted their signals then they could have filed a DCMA takedown request and prevented the Apple Watch from sending it...right?
Umm... Ethics? When does any form of cheating become acceptable?
Every time before you get caught, duh.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
its top of the 19th at Fenway, 2-2, Kevin Pillar at the plate, Hector Velazquez pitching....
It's because you're a product of population that didn't do the smart thing and get out of Europe and the UK when things went to pot.
You simply don't have the mental agility to follow along with Baseball or Football.
And yeah, to be fair, you don't get exposed the same was you do for simpler sports like Cricket and Rugby over there.
As such, your tiny brain shuts down from the information overload and you register it as boredom.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
There's a lot of observing opponents in baseball and a lot of technology involved. The only problem was the use of electronic devices in the dugout to relay the signs. Were it not for that, the Red Sox would not have been breaking the rules.
There's a lot going on between pitches and a lot of signs relayed between coaches, the catcher, the pitcher, other defenders, the hitter, and runners. The manager or a coach could signal the catcher which pitch to throw next. The catcher then gives the signs to the pitcher about what pitch to throw next. The catcher needs to know what the next pitch is so he can position accordingly to catch it. There are also signals to the defense about positioning, which can change from one pitch to the next. There are also signals to the hitter sometimes about whether to do something like lay down a bunt or to execute a hit-and-run. If there's a hit-and-run, the runner also needs to know to take off. A double steal would also require signaling both runners to take off. The signs are usually passed with things like hand signals.
As a post above me noted, sign stealing is part of baseball. This usually involves runners trying to see what the catcher signals or where he's setting up to receive the pitch, then relaying that information to the hitter. The catcher often employs deception tactics to try to make sign stealing difficult. This is totally legal and has been a part of baseball for as long as I'm aware of.
There's also a lot of technology in scouting. There are a lot of statistics that are collected and a lot of video that teams have access to. Players will often look for tendencies in their opponents, especially with pitchers. They look to see if a pitcher is tipping his pitches, which means that he does something differently if he's going to throw a different pitch. A pitcher might take a slightly different stance or wind up differently if he's going to throw a curveball versus a fastball. Hitters can try to pick up on those often subtle differences to try to gain an advantage. They will also try to time how long it takes a pitcher to deliver his pitches to the plate and see if he has a different motion if he's making a pickoff attempt to first base rather than delivering a pitch. This is useful to runners who are trying to steal bases. This is all completely legal and MLB teams invest a lot of money in doing exactly this. It's part of the game of baseball, and as a fan, I have absolutely no problem with it.
If the Red Sox had done this without having electronic devices in the dugout, there wouldn't be any talk of punishing them. A few years ago, Phillies coach Mick Billmeyer was allegedly stealing signs from the bullpen with binoculars. Teams have hired people to sit in the stands with binoculars and relay signs to hitters. If you're clever enough that the opponents don't notice, you can get away with it. MLB tells teams that they're not allowed to use equipment (e.g., binoculars and Apple Watches) to steal signs. If you're not using equipment, it's 100% legal. If you're using a low-tech approach like binoculars, MLB will probably say to knock it off and not take any further action. If you're clever enough to steal signs effectively, just be clever enough that the other team doesn't notice.
Captcha: crouch (appropriate since I'm talking about catchers)
I was going to say that they should have invested in a pair of glasses, but oops that's technology too,.
None of that is in the Official Rules of Baseball.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Please be reminded that the use of electronic equipment during a game is restricted. No club shall use electronic equipment, including walkie-talkies and cellular telephones, to communicate to or with any on-field personnel, including those, in the dugout, bullpen, field and-during the game-the clubhouse. Such equipment may not be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a club an advantage.
Which does not prevent teams from using electronic devices. Simply that they can't be used to communicate or steal signals.
The catcher then gives the signs to the pitcher about what pitch to throw next. The catcher needs to know what the next pitch is so he can position accordingly to catch it. There are also signals to the defense about positioning, which can change from one pitch to the next.
So basically the catcher is incompetent and the pitcher is incapable of picking his own pitches?
Try watching cricket, a similar game in which the guy with the ball makes his own decision on how to deliver it. A fast bowler will choose from an in swinger, out swinger, reverse swing, seam, leg break, off break, yorker, bouncer, slow ball, on a length, full, on the leg side, on off stump, outside off.. all these options and more.
He also knows how the field is set and will bowl accordingly.
Why does baseball need every single fucking play directed by someone else?
So what if they were....
Hand signals ARE encrypted signals and they can be decrypted more easily with an Apple Watch.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
It's a good thing you didn't say it, then.
The difference is the bowler can see both batsmen. In baseball the catcher is the player who can see what the opposing players are doing, so he calls the pitches. The pitcher, however, doesn't always agree; sometimes they ask for a different signal.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It's a bat and a ball, what difference does it make? (Paraphrasing Hillary)
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Why does baseball need every single fucking play directed by someone else?
Because it's baseball and not cricket? The games may be similar seeming, but they are fundamentally different. You asking this (quite arrogantly, i might add, similar to most in the EU when concerning Americans) would be similar to an American asking why there's no forward passing allowed in rugby. It's pointless, because they are two fundamentally different games. Also, asking in the arrogant way you did suggests one is better than the other, which you should know is subjective.
You're confusing encoding with encrypting.
There's a big difference between encoding something in a secret way and encrypting.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
For a brief moment in history, baseball became interesting. Then it went back to being just like it was before.
I was going to say that they should have invested in a pair of glasses, but oops that's technology too,.
Why does that remind me of Charlie Sheen?
(Hint: I know why - it's a joke)
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
That's just the thing. AFACT, there is no "official rule." Feel free to look, here are the Official Rules. The nearest I can find is 3.10 - Equipment on the field, but that doesn't cover this.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
would be similar to an American asking why there's no forward passing allowed in rugby. It's pointless
I wouldn't take offence at an American asking that question. It's not pointless, it's a legitimate question and not an obvious answer.
Indeed, I don't even know the answer, beyond "it's in the rules". It does lead to an interesting game, but at least the guy with the ball gets to choose whether to run, kick or pass backwards.
Why do you interpret a question challenging some arcane practice (that isn't even in the fucking rules) as 'arrogant'? I expect sportsmen to know how to play the fucking game, that isn't arrogance.
suggests one is better than the other, which you should know is subjective.
I know people that have a lot of exposure to both and prefer baseball. Obviously they're wrong, and sure, my question was framed to reveal my views on the matter. That's not arrogance, it's just that cricket is clearly the superior sport.
Evidence? Well, it's played far more widely, it has far more supporters, far more people playing, the fielders don't need fucking big gloves just to catch a ball, it has infinitely more variety and the players determine for themselves how to play.
"Stealing hand signals"? Must be a concept invented by the same people who thought up "stealing sound waves", "stealing light" and "stealing numbers".
And "stealing base".
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Someone from the commissioner's office should squeeze the Red pitcher's balls to see if they're too soft.
it's about time the Yankees use encrypted electronic messages instead of hand-signs that every moron can see.
Then these complaints will be moot.
Hmm, makes me wonder if it's time for baseball to embrace technology... Just give the pitcher and catcher earpieces and let the manager talk to them over a radio. Then the manager (or anybody else, really) can call the pitches and there's no way to intercept that without breaking the radio's encryption or surveilling the person making the calls...
This qualifies as a cyber attack!
Stealing signs is part of the game. Either using memorization , or video, both have been around for a long time. interesting usage of technology though
The catcher then gives the signs to the pitcher about what pitch to throw next. The catcher needs to know what the next pitch is so he can position accordingly to catch it. There are also signals to the defense about positioning, which can change from one pitch to the next.
So basically the catcher is incompetent and the pitcher is incapable of picking his own pitches?
Try watching cricket, a similar game in which the guy with the ball makes his own decision on how to deliver it. A fast bowler will choose from an in swinger, out swinger, reverse swing, seam, leg break, off break, yorker, bouncer, slow ball, on a length, full, on the leg side, on off stump, outside off.. all these options and more.
He also knows how the field is set and will bowl accordingly.
Why does baseball need every single fucking play directed by someone else?
You are comparing apple with orange. Baseball is NOT cricket. And it appears that you don't understand baseball at all if you think that the catcher is incompetent and pitcher is incapable of pitching. Baseball is about cooperative between pitcher and catcher. They must be in sync. If they could have telepathy, then there wouldn't be hand signals.
Cricket, on the other hand, is one side only. It is a completely different game strategy. If you can't distinguish between cricket and baseball, then you shouldn't make this kind of silly comment.
The index included this reference:
Electronic Equipment on Field—3.14(b)
However, the current PDF available from mlb.mlb.com, actually doesn't include any text for Rule 3.14 (b) other than:
"The use of any markers on the field that create a tangible reference system on the
field is prohibited."
This is Deep Baseball. If there is a game rule prohibiting using electronic devices on the field or in the dugout, but it isn't, as of today, visible nor published.
The iPad deal seems to be a corporate MLB deal, so we may be seeing a corporate rule process where MLB imposes additional rules on the game which are not specified in the Official Baseball Rules. And this 'rule must be an MLB agreement to prevent the use of *unapproved* 'electronic devices' in the dugout or on the field.
But stealing signs has been a 'problem' since the beginning of Major League Baseball. From this story in 2011, "Stealing signs is as old as signal-calling itself. In 1876, the very first year of the National League, opponents of the Hartford Dark Blues claimed the club was somehow using a shack hung off a telegraph pole outside its home park to relay signals."
And, "Decades after the Giants stormed back to win the memorable 1951 NL pennant race, backup catcher Sal Yvars revealed that the team had deployed a clubhouse telescope, an electrician and a buzzer to pass stolen signs to its batters."
Also, "Just last year (2010), after the Rockies spotted a Phillies bullpen coach using binoculars, Colorado accused Philadelphia of stealing signs. Bud Selig downplayed the controversy, saying, "Stealing signs has been around for 100 years," before letting the Phillies off with a reprimand.""
This should be interesting, because the Yankee hate is so palpable, and they are pretty annoyed in New York that they cannot somehow beat the Red Sox. Yay team.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Wait, the bowler doesn't signal his team as to what he will in fact do?
Really? You play a game I am unfamiliar with.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Um, asking for the heater down and inside give the catcher a better chance of handling the ball than guessing where that 98mph fastball is going. High in his eyes? Low and outside? Oh, wait, the pitcher changes his mind and it becomes a straight change?
The only pitch you aren't trying to call for anticipated location and speed is the knuckler, and that's a catcher's skill to field.
And if you've watched much baseball, you know what happens when the catcher and pitcher get crossed up. Woops to the backstop.
Baseball is a uniquely strategic game with pitch calls, pitchouts, infield and outfield shifts, throwing behind the runner, stealing bases, bunting (a volume could be written on this, and the Yankees are really, REALLY butthurt that the Red Sox bunted on their lame pitcher last week, exposing his weakness fielding and playing good. fundamental. baseball.), multiple substitutions (except in the AL, where the DH has tarnished the game), delayed steals, hit-and-run, and the rare but always fun decoy plays.
Baseball is so unlike any other game it's remarkable. Soccer and hockey are also unique, soccer less so. American football, Rugby, Aussie Rules, similarities abound. Cricket is like Baseball as Field Hockey is like Ice Hockey.
This argument is naive. Baseball is complex.Very. The pace of the game enhances this, and the rules are actually simple-ish.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"Evidence? Well, it's played far more widely, it has far more supporters, far more people playing"
Exactly. It is the game of commoners and riff-raff.
They could very nearly have telepathy if they used an electronic signaling system.
True. Baseball has so little action and is so damn boring that you need this sort of thing to add an element of suspense. It isn't enough to actually make the sport entertaining to watch but people who have no taste and enjoy shitty watery American commercial beers need something to do.
More and more incidents like this and still they won't let us sue the stores that sell these products or manufacturers who arm managers and players with them.
Arm... heh... see what I did there?
don't tell me about the one variant that can finish in a day
Average length of a baseball game: 3 hours
Average length of a T20 cricket game: 3 hours
Nothing is as boring as a cricket match
Average 146 pitches per team per baseball game may sound higher than the minimum 120 balls per T20 cricket innings, but at an average of less than 10 hits per game baseball is actually a slower game than Test cricket, which is a five day game. In a T20 innings a team will put bat on ball for most deliveries, scoring off over half of them.
Or consider baseball's home run rate. 1-5 per match? T20 cricket averages ten 'ball out of the ground' hits a match.
People clearly enjoy baseball. That's cool. It's just silly though to claim that cricket is by comparison boring.
https://www.royalsreview.com/2...
In 2015 MLB officials questioned KC Royals Manager Ned Yost about his use of his apple watch. He assured them that w/o the phone it's just a watch, he ended up switching to a locally assembled luxury watch to quash any suspicions allegedly.
But this is a known problem in the MLB and they've been, at least selectively watching for 2 years.
There is zero difference between encoding something in a secret way and encrypting. No math need be involved. See also the Cesar Chipher.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Sorry, but it's well known that the Yankees are the cheatingest team in baseball.
Anything that makes them lose is good in my book.
wow, prejudiced much? I grew up in Brookline, amidst Jews, Asians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Indians, and Black people. I never heard a racist remark until I moved out of that city.
You are lying.
Then allow illegal signaling to be used so that Dreamers can signal, then make it illegal again to stop the Nazis.
Where did this "Dreamers" shit originate? I hadn't heard it until yesterday, and suddenly every liberal mouthpiece is shouting about it in unison. I even got a got an email about the CADA caca at work that referenced "Dreamers". Illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants no matter what you try to brand them as. Having such a coordinated marketing effort come from one side makes me far less likely to support that side.
The Cesar Cipher is a shared-secret cipher where the secret is so little entropy that if you know the method, you can recover the secret trivially. Because the secret is trivial to guess, it is no better than a secret encoding system. In fact it's worse from a practical standpoint than most. But it's still a cipher.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Neither Baseball or Cricket are boring, provided you realize what is happening and what is at stake.
There are many subtle nuances and "game within the game" things happening all the time in both sports.
Despite the higher velocities in Cricket, it is easier to generate offense due to paddle shape and wicket size and many other things. Nothing wrong with that.
Hitting a Baseball thrown by a Major League Pitcher (someone that actually belongs there) is one of the hardest things to do in all of sports. The hitters that fail between 6 & 7 times out of 10 over their careers end up in the Hall of Fame. Just one at-bat is full of strategic decisions by both the battery (Pitcher and Catcher) and the Batter. If the Batter can get information about a pitch beforehand, it is a huge advantage.
Normally, signs are stolen when a runner is on Second. In that situation, the Battery changes signs to something more complicated or encoded. But even then, smart runners can still crack the signals and then show signs to the batter about what pitch he thinks is coming next. Or the runner may just be signaling where the Catcher is setting up. Which is why you will see some catchers shift quickly at the last moment to the real position he wants to be in to receive the pitch.
Despite the higher velocities in Cricket
I think baseball pitchers have the higher speed. They're not throwing as far and they can do a proper throw rather than being restricted to a straight arm.
I think cricket has more opportunity for the ball to do things in the air and then bouncing off the pitch adds numerous options.
But yet, the batsmen have a broader
paddle
bat. They're not called paddlesmen.
I agree. The hand signals are an encryption scheme with much greater entropy than the Cesar Cipher. But again, you can "break" it if you have the plaintext. Each signal is an encrypted semaphore. Really, it is very strong encryption, as given the encrypted content you couldn't derive the plaintext in a million lifetimes. So again, it's encryption, not just encoding.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
We're talking baseball here, not zero - zero shitty ass soccer for the biggest pussies in the entire world. 5-7 home runs in a game. Bases loaded. Double digit scores. And baseball is the boring sport? Even fucking golf is funner to watch than soccer. GTFO.
Fuck, you are really stupid. Why doesn't the pitcher just tell the batter what he's about to pitch, then? It was clear why the catcher makes the calls. The pitcher can shake his head that he doesn't agree with the pitch. Seriously, that's the dumbest thing I've read on /. in a while.
Why doesn't the pitcher just tell the batter what he's about to pitch, then? It was clear why the catcher makes the calls.
It wasn't clear, which is why I had to ask. The pitcher could just, you know, throw the fucking ball.
Seriously, that's the dumbest thing I've read on /. in a while.
You clearly don't read your own posts.
Signs aren't just for the Pitcher and Catcher to communicate, the Shortstop and Second Baseman often cheat a bit based on the called pitch. Do you give them earpieces also?
The Catcher needs to know what pitch is coming. Why, if it is a curve or slider the catcher can prepare himself for a pitch in the dirt and more effectively block it or if the catcher expects a curve and gets a fastball it has been known to break a catcher's finger. The pitcher doesn't call the pitch because the batter can see what the pitcher is doing and get an advantage. Also with the catcher calling the pitch the Shortstop and Second Baseman can know what pitch is coming and more effectively position/prepare themselves to field the ball.
Loophole, he's deaf.
And yet the lame-ass American League has a DH because they believe the pitcher is incapable of hitting. Violates the whole idea of teamwork.
baseball has dedicated guys to do everything already.. they should just have mandatory rotation during the play.
and one could argue that the original rules of the game are stupid to begin with, because it leads to specialized pitchers, stupid hidden hand signals and all that. might just as well have the two guys talk over bluetooth really.
and that the hit percentages are so bad is also just a sign of the rules being pretty bad to begin with. Finnish baseball makes for a slightly more interesting game from a game perspective, but that one is pretty bad too, but does have less specialization and calling due to the pitching being straight up basically and therefore no catcher being necessary - and the pitcher can, and needs to, observe the field for what the runners are doing.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Nope soccer is pretty lame too along with basketball. Football is better then either, it's reasonably fun to play sometimes but boring to watch. Hockey is the only real sport. MMA was good early on when it was an actual martial arts competition but now it's devolved into nothing but a pack of roid raging hulks wrestling in tights. Might as well just call it wrestling.