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Apple's 'Shoddy' Beats Headphones Get Slammed In Lawsuit (theregister.co.uk)

A lawsuit (PDF) filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Oakland, California, recounts the frustrations of five plaintiffs who found that Apple's Powerbeats 2 and Powerbeats 3 headphones did not perform as advertised. They are also claiming the company is refusing to honor warranty commitments to repair or replace the failed units. The Register reports: The complaint seeks $5,000,000 in damages and class action certification, in order to represent thousands of similarly afflicted Beats customers who are alleged to exist. "In widespread advertising and marketing campaigns, Apple touts that its costly Powerbeats (which retail for $199.95) are 'BUILT TO ENDURE' and are the 'BEST HEADPHONES FOR WORKING OUT,'" the complaint says. "But these costly headphones are neither 'built to endure' nor 'sweat & water resistant,' and certainly do not have a battery that lasts for six or twelve hours. Instead, these shoddy headphones contain a design defect that causes the battery life to diminish and eventually stop retaining a charge."

The complaint attributes the shoddiness of Apple's Powerbeats headphones to cheap components. Citing an estimate in a recent Motley Fool article, the complaint contends that Apple's Beats Solo headphones cost $16.89 to make and retail for $199.95: a markup of more than 1,000 per cent. That figure actually comes from a Medium post by Avery Louie, from hardware prototyping biz Bolt.

190 comments

  1. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The complaint contends that Apple's Beats Solo headphones cost $16.89 to make and retail for $199.95: a markup of more than 1000 percent.

    That takes courage!

    1. Re: Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah just capitalism working as intended LOL

    2. Re: Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. The beats name will be tarnished and many consumers will buy a better product when they look for headphones.

    3. Re: Obligatory by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

      MSRP is $200. Dealer/retailer pays $120. Distributor pays $80. Apple makes a typical 4-5X markup, not 12X as intended. There are more steps in the chain than most expect... For most CE products, you can assume a 10-12X markup between COGM (not COGS which would be higher than COGM) and MSRP.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry but if I were the judge I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face from someone telling me they paid $199.95 for a set of earphones they want to wear while they are working out.

    5. Re:Obligatory by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

      No Mod Points , but this is single handedly the best comment in this thread.

      --
      Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
    6. Re:Obligatory by Toad-san · · Score: 1

      Isn't a lack of courage to blindly accept that $199.95 retail price either. I see them all over the place online from $89 to $109. Still outrageous markups, but still ...

    7. Re:Obligatory by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      ...still not counterfeit?

    8. Re:Obligatory by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      The complaint contends that Apple's Beats Solo headphones cost $16.89 to make and retail for $199.95: a markup of more than 1000 percent.

      If you think that is either unusual high or a problem specific to Apple, I have some very bad news to tell you.

      Apple tends to get the news just cause, well, they're Apple. But *everybody* does this. ALL manufacturers. Hell, do you really think a large coke at McDonalds really costs as much as it does? The raw materials are literally a fraction of a cent.

    9. Re: Obligatory by Gussington · · Score: 1

      MSRP is $200. Dealer/retailer pays $120. Distributor pays $80. Apple makes a typical 4-5X markup, not 12X as intended. There are more steps in the chain than most expect... For most CE products, you can assume a 10-12X markup between COGM (not COGS which would be higher than COGM) and MSRP.

      So how much do those $5 MSRP headphones cost to make?

    10. Re: Obligatory by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Under a buck. Seriously. Margins actually shrink as you go down in price, too...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    11. Re:Obligatory by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I have no idea why you got modded up. Some people like music while they work out. Some people like having good headphones, because their music sounds better with good headphones. The headphones were advertised as good for working out, and at that price it's reasonable to assume that some of the extra cost is for durability.

      Do you also scoff at people who pay more than $20 for their running shoes?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re:Obligatory by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      You're working out. Premium sound is not your priority. With shoes, good shoes are a priority, because they directly impact the workout.

    13. Re:Obligatory by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So? Different people do different things while working out. You will find that the judicial branch is quite able to keep a straight face when faced with things you don't approve of.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. Fakes abound. by commandlinegamer · · Score: 3, Informative

    A recent TV investigation (I think it was BBC's Rogue Traders) featured people getting ripped off with poor quality fakes of premium brand headphones, including Beats, IIRC. Wonder if some of the complainants here have been similarly caught out.

    1. Re:Fakes abound. by avandesande · · Score: 2

      So they were tricked into buying headphones that were 12$ to make?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:Fakes abound. by qortra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're playing fast and loose with the word "premium". If you must use an adjective that is not pejorative, I would choose "fashion headphones". When I think "premium", I think Sennheiser, AKG, Shure, Beyerdynamic.

    3. Re:Fakes abound. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The headphones are fine, you just need to buy the Monster headphone cables to connect them. Then they'll sound purer, fuller, and richer.

    4. Re:Fakes abound. by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wonder if some of the complainants here have been similarly caught out.

      The two-year-old Medium post in the summary links to a author who was fooled. A later post reveals this and corrects the cost estimate. Based on the language and misleading info, I think the summary author has an agenda.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Fakes abound. by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      Yes but the later post points out that the counterfeits are almost identical and that the genuine ones aren't any better. So this kind of contributes more to the original point that the "value is in the brand," (i.e. they suck but are expensive)

    6. Re:Fakes abound. by YuppieScum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, the term was "premium brand," which Apple - arguably - is.

      However, such a brand can be applied to all kinds of shonky products - Ferrari and Porsche, for example, sell all kinds of branded, over-priced tat.

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      This sig left unintentionally blank.
    7. Re:Fakes abound. by lucm · · Score: 2

      The headphones are fine, you just need to buy the Monster headphone cables to connect them. Then they'll sound purer, fuller, and richer.

      You forgot "danceabler"

      http://gizmodo.com/302478/7250...

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    8. Re:Fakes abound. by qortra · · Score: 1

      Haha, a reasonable point to be sure. That being said, companies can have subsidiaries with a more tarnished reputation than their parent. Also, I would claim that one way of measuring the "brand of record" is the domain that shows up first when I Google. In this case, "beatsbydre.com". iPhone, by contrast, returns "apple.com".

      Also, I bet if you look outside tech circles, a lot of people don't even know Beats is owned by Apple. There were only two references to Apple on the Beats site that I identified. One was the Apple icon inside the "buy" buttons, and the other was the registration footer with excruciatingly low contrast. Maybe one day when they get renamed to BeatsByCook, I'll reconsider my position.

    9. Re:Fakes abound. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Sort of... the generics were estimated to cost $16.89 vs $20.19 for the real. Sure, they are $200 headphones, but that's a 20% increase in COGS. The counterfeit is "almost identical" because by definition it has to be a pretty believable copy in order to pass for the real thing.

      Anyway, my point wasn't that Beats headphones are a good deal - they aren't. My point was to support the parent's implication that the headphones could be fake - they even fooled an expert. Secondarily, my point was that the author is knowingly exaggerating and misleading.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re: Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have some JBL headphones that are awesome...BEAT dat lol.

    11. Re:Fakes abound. by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      The headphones are fine, you just need to buy the Monster headphone cables to connect them. Then they'll sound purer, fuller, and richer.

      You forgot "danceabler"

      http://gizmodo.com/302478/7250...

      Make sure that you get the cables with the gold connectors, otherwise you are just frontn'.....

    12. Re:Fakes abound. by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, the term was "premium brand," which Apple - arguably - is.

      Apple is by far, not a premium brand. Its an expensive one, but not premium. Even then, they're not so expensive as to price themselves out of availability for everyone. Here in the UK even someone on benefits (welfare) can get an Iphone. They're like a Toyota Camry and we can hardly call Toyota a premium brand

      However, such a brand can be applied to all kinds of shonky products - Ferrari and Porsche, for example, sell all kinds of branded, over-priced tat.

      Right about the first part, wrong about the second.

      Ferrari's and Porsches have attributes that set them apart from cheaper competition (although the Porsche is the cheap Ferrari). You cant replicate a 488 for much less than a 488 costs. You cant say the same about Apple. Apple is like what Volkswagen does in Australia. VW pretends its a premium brand in Australia when they're common as muck in here in Europe and no more expensive than a Toyota. They aren't better quality or have better features than their competition, but they charge a premium because of the badge.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    13. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wonder when Monster will start selling canned 'Monster Air' so your wireless devices can sound better too.

    14. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cant replicate a 488 for much less than a 488 costs.

      True, but totally irrelevant. What OP is talking about is handbags, jackets, watches, hats...

      AC

    15. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a number of Ferrari and Porsche branded products that aren't vehicles. There are Ferrari and Porsche branded laptops, clothing items, etc all of which could be described as overpriced. In this way, they are exactly like the Apple/VW example you gave.

    16. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you don't understand & love great driving cars. Some people do. My 41 year or Porsche with well of 200k miles on it drives, to this day, better than any "normal" brand-new car I've ever driven from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, GM, Ford, etc. And it's spent many, many of those years being thrashed in amateur motor-sports, including ice-racing and autocross. Never been a garage-queen, not even close. Not to say Porsche is perfect, they do some really stupid things from time to time, but just pointing out that some people are sensitive to things other people are not. I can tell a quality, great-driving car apart from that isn't (which the vast majority of them), after just a couple of minutes of driving, often even sooner. Don't assume that just because something is high-priced that's it's not a quality product, or that there isn't a reason for the price tag.

    17. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm reasonably sure that the poster who said "However, such a brand can be applied to all kinds of shonky products - Ferrari and Porsche, for example, sell all kinds of branded, over-priced tat." - he was probably talking about hiking shoes, backpacks, kitchen appliances, and etc. The first time I saw a Ferrarri-branded laptop, I was impressed until I looked at it. It wasn't very nice and was quite expensive.

    18. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right about the first part, wrong about the second.

      Ferrari's and Porsches have attributes that set them apart from cheaper competition...

      I think Mr (Ms?) Scum was referring to the clothing, key chains, baby buggies etc. that are sold under the names of these companies.

    19. Re:Fakes abound. by YuppieScum · · Score: 1


      Actually, you seem to have missed the meaning of my second point. If you read it again, you'll realise that I was referring not to the cars that Ferrari and Porsche sell, but the clothing, mugs, coasters, wind-chimes and so forth - in fact, anything with enough space on it for the name or logo, the presence of which increases the retail price by a huge margin.

      You comments on the relative merits of car-brand attributes and perception as they relate to Apple, while interesting, are germane only in that they reinforce the first statement I made, since you've argued against it :)

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      This sig left unintentionally blank.
    20. Re:Fakes abound. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Apple is by far, not a premium brand. Its an expensive one, but not premium.

      According to my marketing-wank-to-English translator, "premium" is a synonym for "expensive".

    21. Re:Fakes abound. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Also, make sure you use AudioQuest HDMI cables in your video gear. The cables are very high quality and will make your 0s rounder and smoother, and your 1s will be sharper and less jaggy.

    22. Re:Fakes abound. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, the term was "premium brand," which Apple - arguably - is.

      Apple is by far, not a premium brand. Its an expensive one, but not premium. Even then, they're not so expensive as to price themselves out of availability for everyone. Here in the UK even someone on benefits (welfare) can get an Iphone. They're like a Toyota Camry and we can hardly call Toyota a premium brand

      However, such a brand can be applied to all kinds of shonky products - Ferrari and Porsche, for example, sell all kinds of branded, over-priced tat.

      Right about the first part, wrong about the second.

      Ferrari's and Porsches have attributes that set them apart from cheaper competition (although the Porsche is the cheap Ferrari). You cant replicate a 488 for much less than a 488 costs. You cant say the same about Apple. Apple is like what Volkswagen does in Australia. VW pretends its a premium brand in Australia when they're common as muck in here in Europe and no more expensive than a Toyota. They aren't better quality or have better features than their competition, but they charge a premium because of the badge.

      Apple consistently scores dramatically higher in terms of customer satisfaction and product durability, and their products come at a higher cost. They are the brand that celebrities want too be seen using, for better or worse. They are most certainly a premium brand.

    23. Re:Fakes abound. by messymerry · · Score: 1

      You know, the funny thing is that most people with these "premium" headphones are listening to crappy mp3s with them... go figure. ;-)

      --
      Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
    24. Re:Fakes abound. by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Only if they have an rainforest sourced hardwood timber volume knob for greater fullness and resonance of sound reproduction...

    25. Re:Fakes abound. by YuppieScum · · Score: 1

      Only if you don't understand & love great driving cars.

      Only if you don't realise I wasn't talking about cars...

      --
      This sig left unintentionally blank.
  3. $200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you got what you paid for.

    the logo.

    1. Re:$200 for headphones by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. All things Apple are overpriced and everyone knows it. The people that buy Apple products do so for reasons more important to them than the dollar value proposition.

      Often these people are bad with money in general. You can be sure that a lot of people making minimum wage purchased this crap to go with their iPhone.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:$200 for headphones by ark1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This. Beats were always about status and not quality.

    3. Re:$200 for headphones by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      you got what you paid for.

      the logo.

      And the screwing.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:$200 for headphones by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      This. Beats were always about status and not quality.

      True, they advertise your status as an ignoramus.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:$200 for headphones by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I heard the same about paying extra for the "green paint" on John Deere tractors. Sounds like the same deal here. Go tell a farmer that they're just buying a tractor for the color of the paint and they'll smile and laugh... all the way to the bank. They're making money with that "green paint" while their neighbors are letting crop rot in the field since their cheaper equipment is down for repair.

      For that logo to mean something they have to build a reputation. Just charging a lot of money for crap doesn't make a successful business. Last I checked Apple and John Deere were both successful companies in their respective fields.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    6. Re: $200 for headphones by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Deere is no more reliable than Case, Internstional, or Kubota. In fact, they are less reliable today because you can no longer repair them yourself. That's probably not the best analogy.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    7. Re: $200 for headphones by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      In fact, they are less reliable today because you can no longer repair them yourself.

      That makes no sense. In fact really it's quite the opposite. Reliability increases in controlled maintenance conditions.

      What Deere is doing is with vendor lock in is called a "dick move" but it certainly isn't the cause of reliability problems.

    8. Re: $200 for headphones by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Are you high? Not being able to repair your broken tractor does impact reliability. They have to wait for someone to come fix it, instead of fixing it themselves and getting back to work. That's not reliable.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:$200 for headphones by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Even so, you would at least expect them to have figured batteries out by now. It was 15 years ago that the iPod launched, and 14 years ago that the non-replaceable dies-after-a-year battery scandal hit.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re: $200 for headphones by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Not being able to repair your broken tractor does impact reliability.

      Not at all. Not being able to repair your broken tractor impacts availability. The two are very different.
      But it's not unexpected. It's quite rare to find people who even know that MTTF and MTBF are two different things, let alone that there's separate statistics for MTTR, and the reliability and availability are defined differently as combinations of these stats.

      You are partially right though, there is an affect on reliability. By carefully controlling all maintenance and repair reliability increases. By letting any old farmer joe do up bolts with whatever nut-rounder he has on hand availability increases, but reliability decreases.

      Are you high?

      Sadly no. But I do finish work at 17:30, ask me again then.

    11. Re:$200 for headphones by houghi · · Score: 2

      No, they didn't. That is what the lawsuit is about.

      They could have been 2000USD and working as advertised and 2USD to make and all would have been fine.
      However if they pay 2000USD to make it and charge 2USD and they say it is waterproof and it isn't, it is false advertisement and a problem.

      I can sell snake oil as long as it does what I say it does. The moment it doesn't, it is fraud.
      So stop blaming the victims.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    12. Re: $200 for headphones by swb · · Score: 1

      Reliability increases in controlled maintenance conditions.

      To me it seems like its a moral hazard to control both reliability and the repair channel. Since the vendor profits from repair exclusivity, they have a perverse incentive to decrease reliability because they profit from its repair.

      If they can't control who fixes the units, poor reliability is likely to have its greatest impact on dealerships who do warranty repairs. Dealership reimbursement for warranty work is lower margin than non-warranty work, so dealers faced with large warranty work will be likely to push for reliability improvement because it pushes out non-warranty work and cuts their shop margin.

      Designs with poor long-term reliability problems are more likely to be exposed by independent repair facilities who understand the reliability issues and aren't afraid to talk about them since they have no material incentive to mask them. This negative word of mouth is likely to create pressure on the brand to improve reliability.

      All of this would be different if the product was sold with some kind of long-term controlled maintenance warranty, but there's still a moral hazard to cut corners on reliability because you can also cut warranty support resources but I would ordinarily expect that if that much effort was put into a total package they would be less inclined to do so.

    13. Re:$200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the mean, Android users have worse credit than iPhone users: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-users-better-credit-android-2017-1

    14. Re: $200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Reliability is typically measured by uptime. Availability is when it is up, and you can use it. A broken tractor impacts uptime, which impacts reliability. A tractor shared by 4 farmers and you can never use it impacts availability.

      Yes, the two are very different, you get that right, but it seems you don't understand the difference beyond that.

    15. Re:$200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there's an obvious troll. Care to make any more sweeping false generalizations? It's almost as if you feel personally harmed by Apple.

      Drama llama says WTF

    16. Re: $200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, he started with reliability then started talk MTTF/MTBF which are related. Depending on the system, a single failure may not affect the immediate usability.

      MTTF is only for non-repairable system. When will you be SOL. MTTF is probably applicable for Apple headphones.

      MTBF is valid for tractors. You need to throw maintainability in there to get the full picture of the relationship. (maybe what he was trying to get at by mentioning MTTR.

      reliability + maintainability = availability

      Given the same reliability (how frequently shit fails), better maintainability(how quick you can fix it) yields better availability. That is the farmers' argument, forcing people to wait decreases the maintainability so hoses their availability. John Deere argues that by forcing them to do all the preventive maintenance, reliability increases and offsets the decrease in maintainability.

      The part people seem to forget is many farmers can take their own sweet time over the winter doing maintenance but when it is planting or harvest season and downtime is more costly.

      It is costing John Deere sales especially in midsize units.

    17. Re: $200 for headphones by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      It's harvest time in the north right now. That 'availability' means $5k/day if not more and that's a lot of money for family farms.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    18. Re:$200 for headphones by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Last I checked Apple and John Deere were both successful companies in their respective fields.

      Perhaps, but Beats headphones were already well-established for being poor-to-mediocre headphones for a high price tag.

    19. Re: $200 for headphones by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      The two are very different.

      True, but that difference is one only engineers care about. End users only care about "can I use it when I need it". If the answer is "no" too often, then it's unreliable. The root cause of the situation is purely academic to them.

    20. Re: $200 for headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Make all repairs and maintenance for the first 10 years covered by warranty for free through John Deere. Allow anyone to by parts and service the unit. And all you would be left with is people fixing older tractors or people who needed emergency repairs to get back in the field.

      The problem: John Deere is already a premium price brand and that would make the up front cost too high.
      Say you want a small ag/utility tractor, maybe 50hp. JD/Case/New Holland will run you $70k, You can save $20k if you want a lesser capable tractor but good dealer support (Kubota, Steyr), save $30k for a crappy dealer but solid tractor and parts availability (TYM, Mahindra, FarmTrac,Massey, kioti), or save even more with no dealer support and a tractor they cut every corner on (Jinma, and I can't name many others because I always want easy to get parts)

    21. Re: $200 for headphones by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And? So you agree with me it's a dick move like I said?

    22. Re: $200 for headphones by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      True, but that difference is one only engineers care about.

      Oh I'm sorry I thought this was news for nerds, I think I may have gotten DNS hijacked into some child's safe space. If I wanted to talk to those idiots I'd be commenting on a Fox News story.

    23. Re: $200 for headphones by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      You must have lost track of this particular comment thread. We were talking about farmers using farm equipment, not engineers.

    24. Re:$200 for headphones by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      On the mean, Android users have worse credit than iPhone users

      Proving how bad with money they are.

      Behaving in a way that maximizes the amount of money a credit card company makes isn't "good with money" ... its "bad with money"

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    25. Re: $200 for headphones by KGIII · · Score: 1

      You high yet?

      'Cause availability is a function of reliability. If I go outside and my tractor doesn't start, that's not reliable. (Granted, it does - but that's with a lot of maintaining it and it's not like I actually do anything commercial with it.)

      I've got me an L6060. It's lovely - and reliable as all hell, though I maintain it more often than I maintain anything else.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    26. Re:$200 for headphones by MercTech · · Score: 1

      I hear you.
      I went with Sony Fontopia that had a wider frequency response band, active noise canceling and less than half the price of the Beats.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    27. Re:$200 for headphones by Gussington · · Score: 1

      That status of that tells the world I know nothing about headphones...

    28. Re:$200 for headphones by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Batteries in iDevices are replaceable. They aren't easy to replace, and on most sites I'd say not user-replaceable, but you don't need to replace them very often. I haven't seen an iDevice battery fail to last three years.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. A fool and their money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are easily parted.

  5. With a markup like that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt Apple will mind even if they lose the FULL 5 million.

    1. Re:With a markup like that by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      No, they will spend 5.1 million to make sure they do not lose. That is money well spent and not even an H2O molecule in the bucket of their cash hordes.

    2. Re:With a markup like that by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      cash hordes

      Huge swarms of country singers?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:With a markup like that by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      No, not Johnny. Sorry, no Goin' to Jackson this time around.

  6. Courageous by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    It's courageous to drop 200 on headphones with batteries.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  7. Misleading summary by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have no idea whether the case has merit or not - I would never spend $200 on headphones and am completely unequipped to judge. However, the article says "recent" Motley Fool article, when the linked article was published in 2015 - about a year after the Apple acquisition of Beats. I don't know if Apple has used those years to improve the product or not, but calling the article "recent" is disingenuous.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:Misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If I were to drop $200 on headphones, I'd make sure they had AKG, Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser written on them.

    2. Re:Misleading summary by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      For Slashdot, that's pretty recent ....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it that you don't fly for a living.... A good quality noise canceling headphones work wonders on the screaming babies in the on the plane...

    4. Re:Misleading summary by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      So you're a pilot for United?

    5. Re:Misleading summary by blindseer · · Score: 2

      If I were to drop $200 on headphones, I'd make sure they had AKG, Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser written on them.

      That's what I did. I came to a point years ago where I decided I need new headphones, nice headphones. I kept looking at cheap headphones because that's what I always bought. Then I realized that if I was shopping for speakers that only I could hear, such as for my hi-fi in my basement, that I would not even blink at spending $200 on them. This put me in a new mindset. I started to look at the features I wanted first, then look at the price. Looking at the price first eliminated so many headphones from further inspection and consideration.

      I ended up with Beyerdynamic headphones for something like $200 and I love them. I'd bring them to work so I could filter out all the chatter from coworkers as I worked. When I had computer based training I could filter out the noise of the other students taking their own courses in the same room, where they use a microphone to reply in the chat program the course provided. I brought them on my European vacation so I could filter out the noise on the plane. They aren't "noise cancelling" like so many others in it's price range, they just have well designed sound insulation.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    6. Re:Misleading summary by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I don't know if Apple has used those years to improve the product or not

      They haven't. Go to a best buy and have a listen how garbage Beats sound are compared to a cheaper (not even comparable price) product from ... anyone else.

      But yeah I get it, it's just not cool unless they are bright red and have that large b logo on it. Beats are fashion accessories, not headphones.

    7. Re:Misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Samson SR950. About £ 34 in the UK. Beats the pants off most other headphones irrespective of price. Just ask anoyone who does serious audio work (producers, engineers) what they think of them.

      Do not be fooled by price tags. Let your ears decide.

    8. Re:Misleading summary by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I don't fly as much as I used to, but I've switched from noise cancelling headphones to Sennheiser CX150 RT earbuds. I even wear them when I'm not listening to music, just to block the sound. They might not be quite up to the best noise cancelling headphones, but they are darned close. Actually, the Panasonic RPHJE120G headphones aren't bad, either - though definitely not as good as the Sennheisers. I got the Sennheisers for $15 on sale and the Panasonic buds were $6.50 on sale so I bought several.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Misleading summary by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      My "good" headphones cost $15, so yeah I'm not even touching a $200 pair.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re:Misleading summary by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      My "good" headphones cost $15, so yeah I'm not even touching a $200 pair.

      Each to their own. My sister isn't fussed about the difference between her $15 headphones and my $900 set either. But then a favourite passtime of mine is laying in a quiet bed listening to music for hours on end.

      Point is, Beats are the Chanel of the headphone world. You're paying 100% for name and brand recognition and zero for quality.
      (Still can't believe my sister spent $250 on Chanel sunglasses which are neither polarised, nor block IR, and don't even have anti-glare coating on them)

      At least your $15 likely goes into the manufacture. With Beats, a portion of those $15 goes to a few metal weights to make them seem heavier and thus higher quality.

    11. Re:Misleading summary by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't get too cocky. Wanna bet your $900 pair didn't cost much more than the Beats to manufacture? I'm glad they make you happy (and I'm envious that you have hours to lay in bed quietly!). I'm glad your sister finds happiness in $250 sunglasses, even if I'm completely satisfied by the ones I get from the guy on the street corner selling them for $5. I also spend my money on things that make me happy. It's a wonderful world.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    12. Re:Misleading summary by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Wanna bet your $900 pair didn't cost much more than the Beats to manufacture?

      Yeah gladly. You see markups disappear rapidly in high end audio up to a certain point before they re-appear again in quality that can only be described as vapour ware (cough high end cables cough). I take it you're USA based? If you're ever in NY, go check out how they manufacture Grado headphones. Hand made, hand checked and each driver put through a quality control regime which the entire budget of beats would eat up just paying some poor Chinese slave their hourly wage.

       

      and I'm envious that you have hours to lay in bed quietly!

      Don't be, I'm sure if you thought about what you do you'll probably spend many hours a week doing something you enjoy as well. A lot of people who live happy lives are envious for no reason. :-)

    13. Re:Misleading summary by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yes, I used to live in NYC, and I'm familiar with Grado. They do indeed hand-make their headphones (out of wood!) and if those are what you have, then yeah, you paid for the old-school craftsmanship. Many of the audiophile-class stuff is wholly or in part made in China, though (cough, Bowers & Wilkins, cough) - and if they use modern processes even highfalutin headphones will have less than $100 in parts. It's just wood, metal, and plastic. And while this is all very subjective, I personally haven't experienced anything better than the tried and true MDR 7506, which go for around $100.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  8. Lawsuits by willoughby · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is the second lawsuit I've read about in the last couple of days which just amounts to, "It's not as good as I thought it was". Are consumers today really so ignorant they just purchase without research and then expect someone to bail them out if they're not satisfied?

    And... my Grado headphones are great, btw. Not wireless, though.

    1. Re:Lawsuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, flatly refusing to honor warranted commitments is illegal.

      There is also the issue of blatantly lying in the advertisements.

    2. Re:Lawsuits by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Battery warranties need sorting out. Companies claim that they are consumables, but you also can't change them yourself and if you get a dud or bad design you are SOL.

      The law needs to be changed so that batteries have a minimum 2 year warranty and must be user replaceable. It isn't difficult to design for those requirements, and not expensive.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Lawsuits by tomhath · · Score: 2

      Are consumers today really so ignorant they just purchase without research and then expect someone to bail them out if they're not satisfied?

      No, this lawsuit is about lawyers trying to make a killing on a class action suit. The consumers will be lucky to get a coupon good for $2 off their next Apple purchase.

    4. Re:Lawsuits by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Speaking of bad design with headphone batteries...

      Avoid the Logitech H600 wireless headphones. If the battery dies, the device is bricked without disassembling them and "jump starting" or otherwise replacing the battery. A lot of rechargeable devices have had similar issues over the years, but you wouldnt expect headphones to have the extra circuitry necessary for this bug to exist at all.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    5. Re:Lawsuits by Strider- · · Score: 1

      The law needs to be changed so that batteries have a minimum 2 year warranty and must be user replaceable.

      Great in theory, not so practical in the real world. The first part is fine, require an expected lifespan of n years with acceptable performance. But lets take the example of a fitbit, a pebble watch, or any of the other wearable devices. Even if the battery is theoretically user replaceable, they are either going to have to standardize on a format, and secondly the battery is going to need to be far more mechanically robust so that it doesn't explode when some idiot tries to mash it in with his screwdriver.

      A different solution might be to require a manufacturer to offer battery service for a reasonable fee, for, say 5 years after the product was discontinued.

      For any problem there is always a solution that is both simple, and wrong.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    6. Re:Lawsuits by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Great in theory, not so practical in the real world. The first part is fine, require an expected lifespan of n years with acceptable performance. But lets take the example of a fitbit, a pebble watch, or any of the other wearable devices. Even if the battery is theoretically user replaceable, they are either going to have to standardize on a format, and secondly the battery is going to need to be far more mechanically robust so that it doesn't explode when some idiot tries to mash it in with his screwdriver.

      Yet user-serviceable batteries are found in everything from hearing aids to sex toys to watches to flashlights to TV remotes to wireless mice to cars to smoke alarms to toothbrushes to cameras to...

    7. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The lawsuit is claiming false advertising and If they can prove it then they deserve the win. We shouldn't have to research the hell out of every little purchase, we should be able to buy based on what is advertised. If an item is advertised as sweat and water resistant no one should have to doubt that claim, especially when paying a premium price.

      Along with all this, holding Apple accountable for lying to consumers (if they really were) is healthy for our economy in general. If consumers have trust in the products and brands they are buying they are likely to spend more than if they do not have trust. I'm not at all the type of person to buy something when it first comes out but without these people our economy would be less healthy.

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    8. Re:Lawsuits by MoaDweeb · · Score: 1

      'Fit for purpose' is a common legal requirment (in my country anyway) and return the item to the seller for replacement or get your money back. Especially if it failed in a year.
      Is your reasonable expectation that a set of headphones should last less than a year under normal usage?

      The Apple X is now only warranted for 1 year and is over $1k however it is not what I would call a resonable expectation that the device should only last a year.
      Perhaps because my country gives a small s*it about consumers over producers.

      --
      New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
    9. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      If an item is advertised as sweat and water resistant no one should have to doubt that claim, especially when paying a premium price.

      No doubt. But presumably if someone is spending that much money on something and are relying on the advertising lingo to guide your purchase, they've first done 30 seconds of due diligence to understand the difference between water resistant and waterproof. To the extent the complaint is comprehensible, it seems to badly conflate those two concepts.

    10. Re:Lawsuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple will probably just dust off this old excuse https://www.wired.com/2008/12/apple-says-cust/

    11. Re: Lawsuits by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      My Pebble Steel seems to have gone that route. But since Fitbit killed the company anyway I treated myself to a nice new Casio watch for $20 that does everything I actually was using on the Pebble (the important part was a stopwatch function with practical and robust start/stop/clear buttons).

    12. Re: Lawsuits by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Psst: Apple can't design a battery compartment to house a commodity industry standard battery. They just aren't that good at product design. The last time I know of them trying them trying was on the Newton, and it had a totally shit over-engineered battery compartment. I suspect Newtons with an unbroken battery compartment are VERY collectable by now.

    13. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Their advertising claim clearly implies that sweat from working out wont be a problem. If it is going to be a problem then whats the point of advertising anything on the topic? You can engage in a semantics arguement all you want between proof and resistant but if they advertise an activity the device is supposedly friendly for then the device shouldnt have a problem in said environment.

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    14. Re:Lawsuits by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And... my Grado headphones are great, btw.

      But for the same price you could get a set of Beats Pro, which sound like a $35 headphone. Why would you buy Grado, they don't even have flashy misleading ads.

    15. Re:Lawsuits by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I thought we had solved the replacable watch battery issues decades ago... Okay, these days they might have different battery form factors (although I bet in practice they all use one of a few off-the-shelf sizes), but I'm sure 3rd parties will be happy to meet that demand.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:Lawsuits by houghi · · Score: 1

      They did research. They read the ads and the ads lied.
      The people who should bail them out are the people who protect people against false advertisement.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    17. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Their advertising claim clearly implies that sweat from working out wont be a problem. If it is going to be a problem then whats the point of advertising anything on the topic?

      Advertising claims are measured from the perspective of a reasonable person. A reasonable person would not believe that the handful of people who sweat far beyond typical levels and effectively immerse their earbuds to puddles of water in their ears for sustained periods of time should expect non-waterproof earbuds to survive that kind of abuse.

    18. Re:Lawsuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, consumers, at least in the USA, are indeed that stupid. It's why we have Windows and Mac computers instead of Atari ST and Amiga computers. Morons with way too much $$$ bought the expensive shit the salesmen pushed when equipment 2 or 3 times (or more!) times as powerful at half or one-third (or less!) the price. And the entire world is still the worse for it.

    19. Re: Lawsuits by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I wish I could find a smartwatch that's a good replacement for the Pebble. As near as I can tell, there isn't one on the market at all.

    20. Re: Lawsuits by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I'm rich, then! I have around a dozen of them.

    21. Re:Lawsuits by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Yes, but hearing aids draw a lot less power than something with a display, nor do they have the computing power of a lot of these devices. They're pretty incredible bits of engineering (if overpriced), but they're in a different league. Also, have you seen how much they charge for hearing aid batteries? All the other devices you cite are also significantly larger than what fits on your wrist.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    22. Re:Lawsuits by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Yes, but hearing aids draw a lot less power than something with a display, nor do they have the computing power of a lot of these devices. They're pretty incredible bits of engineering (if overpriced), but they're in a different league.

      You can typically use any "battery" tech to power any device. Dry cells, wet cells, alkaline, zinc, zinc air, lithium, NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion, Li-Poly, potatoes, whatever. It's a question of cost and density, not whether or not it's feasible or safe to be user-serviceable. If you want the battery to be more robust you just package it in a thin plastic shell. All you lose is a bit of capacity.

      So why don't they let you replace batteries? Planned obsolescence.

      All the other devices you cite are also significantly larger than what fits on your wrist.

      Really?

      Yet user-serviceable batteries are found in everything from hearing aids to sex toys to watches to flashlights to TV remotes to wireless mice to cars to smoke alarms to toothbrushes to cameras to...

    23. Re:Lawsuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when do toothbrushes have removable batteries? They all have them sealed inside he watertight welded plastic casing.

      Also modern sextoys also don't have removable batteries anymore the reduce the weight and increase the amount of power and endurance to run the powerful motors.

    24. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Sorry but no, if it's resistant to sweat then it's resistant to sweat. Any reasonable person would assume that it applies to their own sweat levels, especially when paying a premium price as in this case.

      Furthermore, you have no evidence that the complaints are coming from some sort of super sweating freak.

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    25. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Sorry but no, if it's resistant to sweat then it's resistant to sweat. Any reasonable person would assume that it applies to their own sweat levels, especially when paying a premium price as in this case.

      No, you're once again conflating "resistant to sweat" with "sweat-proof." The former has limits by definition, so you simply can't say that something labeled "resistant to sweat" should be able to withstand any arbitrary amount. This is precisely the reason that courts use the objective "reasonable person" standard, so disenchanted people can't just make up their own subjective interpretation after the fact and say that's the one that must govern.

      Furthermore, you have no evidence that the complaints are coming from some sort of super sweating freak.

      And you have no evidence that the lead plaintiffs didn't all drop their earbuds in the toilet at the gym. That's what the discovery process in the lawsuit is for.

      But this is really beside the point -- what we're currently discussing is whether an objectively reasonable heavy sweater would believe that "sweat resistant" earbuds means their sweat can't harm them. Had the advertisement said "sweat-proof," I would completely agree with you. But it didn't.

    26. Re:Lawsuits by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I've got a flashlight without a user-replaceable battery. It's mostly useful around the house, since it does need to be charged before use. Our toothbrushes don't have user-replaceable batteries. I'm not sure they're replaceable at all.

      If a battery doesn't have to be user-replaceable, the device can be made more compact, or alternatively a bigger battery can fit in it. The body design is a lot simpler and can be stronger. These things are tradeoffs. There are advantages and disadvantages to user-replaceable batteries, no matter how hard you ignore the disadvantages.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    27. Re:Lawsuits by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Advertising claims are measured from the perspective of a reasonable person.

      A reasonable person, being told that something is good for workouts, would believe that buying them and working out while wearing them would work just fine. The headphones were advertised as being fit for a certain purpose, and apparently they aren't. Nitpicking about what a reasonable person would conclude after careful analysis of the advertising and available information doesn't change the fact that the merchandise was not fit for its advertised purpose.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    28. Re:Lawsuits by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Hint: the Atari ST and the Amiga both cost significantly more than a Macintosh or a Microsoft-powered computer. If salespeople got people to pay extra money, Atari and Commodore would still be making computers.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:Lawsuits by sexconker · · Score: 1

      My toothbrush runs on good ol' AAs. Newer sex toys often use rechargable lithium batteries, but many still often use primary cells.

    30. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      A reasonable person, being told that something is good for workouts, would believe that buying them and working out while wearing them would work just fine.

      Some people's workouts are conducted in the water. I presume you don't believe that someone should expect to be able to dunk their earbuds in the pool simply on the basis of the words "good for workouts."

      But that's really neither here nor there, given that the reasonable person inquiry looks at what a reasonable person would conclude from the totality of the advertisement, not certain words taken in isolation as you're doing. That means in addition to "good for workouts," considering things like "resistant to water/sweat" (i.e., not water/sweat-proof).

    31. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      No, you're using industry code words. Do i need to post the definition of "resistant" for you? The device is clearly being advertised as friendly to people excersising and if it fails in this capacity then they have a case for false advertising. End of story as there's no evidence so far the people pushing the lawsuit put their device through any type of unuasual use.

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    32. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Do i need to post the definition of "resistant" for you?

      You of course could have just done so instead of coyly asking, but I'll do you one better -- let's take a look at definitions of the much more germane "water-resistant": Resisting though not entirely preventing the penetration of water; Able to resist the penetration of water to some degree but not entirely. You get the picture.

      This is not complicated. Either "sweat resistant" means something different than "sweat-proof" or they mean the same thing. You sound like you want them to mean the same thing (even though it's crystal-clear they don't), but you're not forthright enough just to say that.

      If you have something new to say, please do and I'm happy to discuss, but otherwise I'm done putting the rattle back up on the high chair for this one.

    33. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Jesus you're annoying. Does Apple pay you by the post? I've never met some one so anti consumer.

      From their own website
      https://www.apple.com/shop/pro...

      "Sweat and water resistance provides the necessary durability for strenuous workouts and weather."

      If it doesnt last through a workout due to sweat it has failed to meet this advertising claim.

      Furthermore, i doubt any of these people are dropping their device into a bucket of sweat. If it cant handle body sweat not only is it not fit to be worn working out it is most assuradly not water resistant by any standard i've ever heard. Shit, by the claim above it's clearly implied that this thing is supposed to last even in the rain.

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    34. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Does Apple pay you by the post?

      Hey, you're the one who can't accept the simple proposition that "sweat resistant" != "sweat-proof" and keeps fishing around for other stuff to try to distract from that fact. I could just as well say that you're in the pocket of the class action trial lawyers who, based on their complaint, appear to be relying on that same fallacy. But I won't -- your position is so facially untenable that I don't have to resort to ad hominem pot shots.

      If it cant handle body sweat not only is it not fit to be worn working out it is most assuradly not water resistant by any standard i've ever heard.

      I take it you aren't including the two dictionary definitions I provided -- it doesn't surprise me a bit that you're pretending those don't exist.

      Maybe the problem is that you've never worked out (or at least never heavily sweated during one) and so you simply don't understand how something plugged into your ear canal could effectively be immersed by sweat running down your head and into that ear canal.

      Or maybe you're just trying to defend your indefensible proposition that "sweat resistant" means it can handle every drop of sweat anyone dishes out.

      I sense the last word is important to you, so knock yourself out.

    35. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      I literally adressed your point in my above post. Please reread.

      Furthermore, if you cant defend that advertising claim I posted, word for word (which you made no attempt to do) then you're full of it. In very clear language they are telling customers that their product's water resistance makes it suitable for rigorouse excersise. If it breaks from sweat from "strenuous" excersising then it does not meet that claim.

      You had some wiggle room for a while because we were talking conceptionally but you don't have a leg to stand on given their above posted advertising claims.

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    36. Re:Lawsuits by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Hahahaha, I was checking back over posts and noticed something. No normal person gets sweat in their ears in any significant quantity, the ear is shaped to avoid just such a thing. I've played soccer for 30 years and never had a problem with sweat in my ears.

      You're an idiot.

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    37. Re:Lawsuits by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      No normal person gets sweat in their ears in any significant quantity, the ear is shaped to avoid just such a thing. I've played soccer for 30 years and never had a problem with sweat in my ears.

      That was the best you could come up with in 10 days? Good grief. Let the Google be your guide to scores of actual athletes saying otherwise.

      But hey, let's say you're right -- in that case, (1) it would be utterly meaningless to claim that earbuds are "resistant to sweat," and (2) the plaintiffs in this lawsuit who claimed that their sweating caused their earbuds to die would by definition be lying through their teeth (making the reasonable assumption that their earbuds were indeed inserted into their ears and not, e.g., their rectums).

      You really didn't think that one through, did you?

  9. They are the best headphones for working out by edtice1559 · · Score: 3, Funny

    They have "beats" in really large letters so that everybody else in the gym can notice that you are wearing them which is the only reason you would buy such a ridiculous product as these to begin with. Unfortunately, having the beats headphones isn't going to provide the attention from the cute girls in the gym who are in better shape and not interested. You can't file a class action suit saying that the headphones didn't increase your sex appeal, though.

    1. Re:They are the best headphones for working out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awww Ed, that cute guy at the gym didn't notice you? The big guy at the cable row machine? His name is Chris Reimer. Just tell him he looks longer than he is taller and he'll be all yours!

    2. Re:They are the best headphones for working out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have "beats" in really large letters so that everybody else in the gym can notice that you are wearing them which is the only reason you would buy such a ridiculous product as these to begin with.

      No they don't. I think you are confusing them with other Beats products. Powerbeats aren't big and flashy.

    3. Re:They are the best headphones for working out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They have "beats" in really large letters so that everybody else in the gym can notice that you are wearing them which is the only reason you would buy such a ridiculous product as these to begin with. Unfortunately, having the beats headphones isn't going to provide the attention from the cute girls in the gym who are in better shape and not interested. You can't file a class action suit saying that the headphones didn't increase your sex appeal, though.

      Maybe that's why they call them "beats", because the user never gets laid.

    4. Re:They are the best headphones for working out by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      I think you are right. I confused them with the other headphones because I actually read the link in the article to the BoM breakdown which was for the over-the-ear beats headphones!

    5. Re:They are the best headphones for working out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can I file a class action against Porsche because buying one of their cars didn't actually increase my penis size??

  10. Dropping the headphone jack was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why isn't there a lawsuit over that?

    1. Re: Dropping the headphone jack was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because millennials don't care about sound quality.

    2. Re:Dropping the headphone jack was worse by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Because the phones weren't advertised as having a headphone jack. If they had been, and people pre-ordered them on the understanding that the ads were correct in saying they had a jack, they would have had excellent grounds for a lawsuit.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  11. Some Beats sound OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but the amplified ones are awful. I still use Koss PortaPros, the same model I had in high school.

    1. Re:Some Beats sound OK by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      I can second that Koss headphones are on the whole very decent for the money. If you want good dynamic range then its hard to do better at any given price point (note however that quiet parts of audio actually being quiet is seen as a downside by some people, to the point where they buy more and more expensive headphones and things just get worse and worse for them as they escalate rather than educate)

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Some Beats sound OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Class of '17, right?

    3. Re:Some Beats sound OK by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

      '87, actually.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Porta Pro came out in '84. I keep buying the same model. I don't have the same pair obviously.

      I recently bought a white edition model with after-market ear cushions.

      I am a nerd.

      --
      Mostly random stuff.
  12. People are just picking that up now? by GrBear · · Score: 1

    Beats headphones have always been absolutely crappy cans. People are just realizing that now?

    1. Re:People are just picking that up now? by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      I would never spend that amount of money on a pair of headphones anyway. That's just ridiculous that they even get a 1,000% mark-up. I hope Apple loses this one!

    2. Re:People are just picking that up now? by Strider- · · Score: 2

      It all depends on the use case. I spent a pretty significant chunk of change on a pair of Shure IEMs. Great quality sound, but more importantly, they're extremely comfortable to wear for long periods of time (at least for me), and they provide about as much isolation as industrial earplugs. When I was logging 140,000 airline miles a year, they're what kept me sane... And they were good enough to protect my hearing when I was bouncing around the sandbox in blackhawk helicopters.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    3. Re:People are just picking that up now? by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1
      I spent < $60 on a pair of OSTRY KC06A IEM's

      * 10 mm CCAW double cavity driver | * Eardrum Bionics Technology diaphragm | * Titanium housing
      * Sensitivity: >102 dB @ 1 kHz | * Impedance: 16 Ohms +/- 15%
      * Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz | * Distortion: < 1% 110 dB (@20μpa)
      * Channel imbalance: Rated power: 10 mW
      * 4.43 ft environment-friendly antibacterial TPU cable

      Best IEM's I've had. Even blocks the "scraping sound" of the cable rubbing against clothes.

      Comfortably stays in your ears without using the over-the-ear hooks as the cable is firm enough to wrap around your ears. The headphones sit upside-down (in your ear) compared to other IEMs.

    4. Re:People are just picking that up now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine fell apart (literally) 2 months out of warranty. I didn't even use them all that much. Do have great sound, though.

    5. Re:People are just picking that up now? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Glad you found what you want at a reasonable price, but that simply wouldn't work for me. I can't use earbuds because my hearing aids are where they'd go. I need external headphones that are comfortable, block exterior sound, and have decent sound quality. Different requirements for different people.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  13. It's a matter of false advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least in the EU, a company making false claims for a product will rapidly find itself in violation of trade description and advertising laws. Prior "research" by consumers to check that the advertised claims are accurate before purchase is not a requirement. To put it simply, companies should not lie.

    Companies that lie and abuse consumers should not be defended but condemned. They're a blight on society, just white-collar fraudsters.

    1. Re:It's a matter of false advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in the EU...

      But this is NOT THE EU.

  14. I have an idea by slashmydots · · Score: 0

    Can we sue the people who bought them just simply for being that stupid? In fact, can Apple sue for that? Beats and Apple are toxic brand names in the last 5 years in case they haven't been paying attention.

    1. Re: I have an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      While I can't comment on Beats since I have never had any, the AirPod are the best headphones I have ever owned by quite a large margin.

      That said I certainly wouldn't buy them for audio quality where they probably are decent at best. However comparing them to other Bluetooth headsets, their useablility is amazing compared to all other Bluetooth headsets which I have tried, which I have owned quite a few.

      So are Apple products toxic? Maybe if your an android fanboy who is more about. Ring pro android and anti Apple, but for those who actually care about useability they might or might not cover your requirements, but it depends on what you need. For me a headset that is wireless that easily works, can run one or both ear pieces and which has solid battery life is far more important than sound quality which I (me) am unable to hear. So far on average I got maybe 2-3 months out of a Bluetooth headset, my AirPods are going strong after a year, so have actually cost wise have been cheaper.

    2. Re: I have an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if your an android fanboy who is more about.

      wtf? At least my android fanboy is able to string together a meaningful sentence.

  15. Beats have been over hyped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Beats have been over hyped crap since the day they were released. They've only sold because they have a name people know attached to them. I can buy just as good of quality for about $10-20 at office depot.

    People, please learn, if a celebrity has their name on a product, that product is of inferior quality 100% of the time, no exceptions.

    1. Re: Beats have been over hyped by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Damnit, now you've gone and spoiled our pork chop dinner, cooked on my vintage George Foreman Grill.

  16. Why not buy American? by boudie2 · · Score: 1

    Good old American made Grado headphones are a much better investment. For $150 you can get a very good pair of SR125e phones that will provide years of enjoyment. Read the reviews.

    1. Re:Why not buy American? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No bluetooth? No thanks, dad. Also, when I buy Apple I support myself (an American) since I own Apple shares. I do not own shares of Grado.

    2. Re: Why not buy American? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Actually you just dump more money into the Apple bubble. Be careful of cultish tendencies, now that Apple has that "Heaven's Gate" spaceship building.

    3. Re:Why not buy American? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      How much money do you think you get back from your purchase for sales? All you do is enable Cook's lavish lifestyle and reward a company for making junk products. If you want to do something good for yourself stop wasting money on Apple and sell the stock.

  17. Why is this a news item here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People with desperate lawyers sue deep pockets all the time trying to get class action status. This is just another such fishing trip from lawyer trying to win the lottery, one of many. It MIGHT be news if they actually were granted class-action status, but even then most of those suits die because they're without merit. /. editors should not be wasting the time of their readership by posting such useless crap.

  18. No Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really wish I'd stop avoiding purchases for the obvious reasons and get in on this sue happy opportunities.

  19. Re:Once & for all, Apple is fashion not functi by lucm · · Score: 5, Funny

    You buy Apple to LOOK cool, not to actually BE cool -- you understand that right?

    That was true in 2014. Now you buy Apple because the storage on your previous Apple product is full and you have no other way to get more space.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  20. Phones only last a year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read somewhere their phones are only designed to work for a year...
    It's all about the look & feel with Apple, they want nothing to do with durable products, only provide you with the illusion that you're buying one.

    1. Re: Phones only last a year by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      They last much longer than a year. Families hand them down multi-levels to their kids, i.e. little Tim is using a 4, until the kids are so sick of used iPhones that they spend the money from their first paycheck on a fresh new Android phone.

  21. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you're still cool because you now have more space...and the latest Apple product...suck it you cheap bastards...being cool costs $$$$...yeah!!!

  22. Components cost is not total cost by qzzpjs · · Score: 1

    People always seem to forget the amount of R&D that goes into making a product. How long and how many people at what wages? How many prototypes were created and tested? How much for the marketing? All of that costs money and is recovered through the sales price. I imagine they still make a good chunk of profit once costs are recovered but you can't just say it's $20 per set.

    1. Re:Components cost is not total cost by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      Fair point, but are you arguing that overall cost per unit is much closer to the 200$ retail price? R&D expenses are one time expenses that add a diminishing cost per unit with more units sold. Let's be generous here and add 20$ per unit for such expenses....although I am not sure how much R&D is needed for well established technology. Still, pegs expenses to 36$, let's add 14$ for distributor and retailer, brings the expenses to 50$. Asking 200$ is still an unethically huge markup. For that price these puppies better work even after a bus drove over them thrice.

    2. Re:Components cost is not total cost by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You're very certain of the morality of prices for someone who admits not knowing what the R&D expenses would be, and is obviously ignorant of modern distribution works.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  23. What do you expect from apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quality HAHAHA
    and why is shoddy in quotes?

    1. Re: What do you expect from apple? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      The quotes signify 'trademark pending'

  24. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    'Her old Macbook was full, so she had to go out and get a new one.'

  25. Is it worth it if they work? by dmr001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My use case is running for 40 minutes 4 times a week while getting my headphones soaked in a combination of sweat, rain, and lately ash blown in from nearby wildfires. I have blown through 3 prior pairs of Bluetooth wireless headphones, all of which suffered from poor reception while running, and all of which died a salt-encrusted death within several months.

    My Powerbeats 3 aren't perfect (the cord sticks a bit on the back of my neck) but they are by far the only wireless headphones that ever really worked for me for running. I spent more than $200 with the other 3, which I suppose made the admittedly stiff price worth my while.

    1. Re:Is it worth it if they work? by wintered · · Score: 1

      I hate the cord sticking to the back of my neck, but otherwise love these headphones. I did have to have new ones sent out after they fell apart though...

  26. HEY! IF I CAN PUT A RING IN MY PECKER HEAD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can buy Apple! Don't Tread On Me! Because my pecker bleeds pretty easily now.

  27. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Who was it that said, "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap." I believe the same, but for a different reason. Those were the words of some entertainer trying to create a "look".

    What I'm thinking of are people that buy cheap stuff that wears out, breaks, or whatever, and then they have to try to keep it together with duct tape and baling wire or try to scrape together enough money for a replacement that is also cheap. They are constantly trying to save money getting junk products not realizing that if they just stopped for a bit, saved up a little money, and bought something that would last for once, that they could get themselves out of this hole.

    I did that. It takes a lot of self control. When I broke my laptop I panicked and immediately started looking for a replacement. I calmed down a bit and I was able to get my laptop working as a desktop, the battery is shot. I could try to replace the battery, and pound out the dents I put into the case when I dropped it, but I decided to save up for a new laptop instead. It's not likely to be as nice as the one I broke but it won't be a cheap pieced of crap like I was about to get in my earlier panic. Spending money on repairing my current laptop means putting money into a computer that is already 5 years old and the repair may not be successful.

    Between my laptop (which is now shackled to my desk), my iPhone, and computer labs on campus, I've been able to get by so far. I'm going to see if I can last until Christmas before buying, that can mean a lot of after Christmas sales for a laptop for next semester.

    It's actually not that expensive to look "cool" if you can contain yourself from getting the latest and greatest every year. Any more it's hard to tell a 5 year old laptop from a 5 month old laptop if you buy nice stuff and take care of it.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  28. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Who was it that said, "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap."

    Dolly Parton

  29. Crap article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about the water/sweat resistance of these headphones but I do know that all rechargeable batteries diminish over time. That has nothing to do with these specific headphones.

    I also know that anyone who thinks manufacturing costs are the only costs that exist when selling are just dumb.
    There are costs for development, Testing not to forget the seller chains.

  30. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever heard the phrase "poor people can't afford to buy cheap things"?

    It is well known right across society that paying more for a more durable and reliable piece of equipment often pays off in the long run.

  31. Reject the lawsuit by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 0

    By now people should be well aware that Apple stuff is of craptastic quality and grossly overpriced. Those who keep buying it anyway are beyond a point where a court of law can help.

    1. Re:Reject the lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting, where do you get your info? Oh, wait, maybe you are just biased because, for some reason, you don't like Apple? Could that be it?

      Seriously, there is a LOT wrong with Apple, especially recently. But when you've worked in the Education environment as long as I have you'll realize something; one thing Apple products certainly are NOT is crappy. They aren't even overpriced at all when you take into consideration how long they last. There is a night-and-day difference, with Apple equipment lasting years, and years, and years longer that that of other brands under hard-used (computers on wheels carts of MacBooks that lasted, no exaggeration, 11 entire years with nothing but battery replacements and the usual HDD failures). It's not like "Oh, the Apple stuff is a little better" it's like "Oh, the Apple stuff just outlasted our Windows computers by 6 or 7 years...)

    2. Re:Reject the lawsuit by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Even assuming your opinions were anywhere near factual, what you're saying is that we should let known sleazy companies ignore the laws we enforce with more reputable companies. Are you sure you want that to happen?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  32. How Unexpected! by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

    Urm , and this was a surprise to the claimant?
    Apple Cultists really are that stupid ?

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  33. Like my BeatsX by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    I realize I'm wading into one big Anti-Apple circle jerk, but I just wanted to mention that I spend $175 on their overpriced BeatsX bluetooth headphones....

    And they're the single best bluetooth headphones I've ever owned. The sound quality is great (well, as great as they can be for in-ear headphones, obviously), and most importantly, they have given me virtually flawless performance. I had given up completely on bluetooth headphones because every single one I bought gave me problems, notably constant connection drops. Every. Single. One. Even in residential areas where you would think ambient RF interference was low. They were all useless unless I kept my phone in a front coat pocket or otherwise somehow kept the phone within 2 ft unobstructed from the headsets.

    I decided to take a chance with the BeatsX, cause I wanted to know if the W1 chip would make that much of a difference. And I have to say that the BeatsX headset doesn't give me any problems. I've had exactly one major connection failure, and that was when I was walking past an electrical room that puts out so much RF that I'm amazed surprised the florescent lights don't excite on their own.

    I have no idea about the circumstances of this lawsuit, but I can honestly say that I am happier with my BeatsX headphones than I ever have been with any previous BT headset.

    1. Re:Like my BeatsX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably buy Bose products too. Both overpriced, both underperform.

  34. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

    Except that you can't figure out which equipment is durable and reliable. You might be getting better headphones for $200 or you might be getting $12 headphones that are marked up. Well if you buy the $12 version, your total risk is $12. If you buy the $200 version, your risk is $200. So given that you can't be sure that the order-of-magnitude more expensive option is actually better, you have to go with the cheaper option. Furthermore even a "durable and reliable" piece of equipment is subject to accidental damage which isn't covered by warranty. So you're still better off going with the low risk option sometimes even if the higher priced option is genuinely better.

  35. Re: Once & for all, Apple is fashion not funct by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

    Well you can save up to buy the more expensive laptop. Then you'll drop it again and it turns out you would have been way better off buying a much cheaper one and keeping the extra cash in the bank. Warranties don't cover accidental damage. And you could get an outlier that lasts only the warranty period. In general, other than perhaps housing and vehicles, if you have to "save up" to buy something, you are better off saving up and then not buying it.

  36. Cheap crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My daughter's Beats headphones cost $300, and yep -- they're broken already!

  37. Sure you do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    USB key and USB OTG adapter

  38. Re:Once & for all, Apple is fashion not functi by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Excuse me, but my only way to be cool is to turn the thermostat down. I use iPhones because I like them, and the price is reasonable for something I use so often for three years or so.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes