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Google Hit With Gender Pay Discrimination Lawsuit (axios.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Three female former Google employees have filed a lawsuit against the search giant alleging gender-based pay discrimination, as the Associated Press reported. The former employees, Kelly Ellis, Holly Pease and Kelli Wisuri, all left the company after being put on career paths within the company that they say would pay them less than their male counterparts.
It will be absolutely hilarious to watch Google defend against this in courts. After all, we all got the memo that victim-blaming and perpetuating gender stereotypes goes against Google's core values.
/popcorn
Why don't these chicks just identify as male if they want higher salaries? Problem solved.
Here's the actual source from the Washington Post rather than some blog or whatever the source cited in the summary is.
Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of grievance mongers.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Just look at them acting all uppity! You are out of the kitchen. Be thankful.
Finally someone intelligent will mention that while both sides are making mistakes, that doesn't come close to meaning both sides are equally wrong or damaging. They will be modded down.
Let me guess, that's you?
Google is infamously left-wing. That's the *reason* they're being sued. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. Hear me out.
I work at Google. You'll find no real sexism here. What you will find is unending leftist propaganda. There's a weekly microaggression newsletter, even. The constant drumbeat is "You are a victim! You are being oppressed! The world is arrayed against everyone except white men!"
Now, when you put a normal well adjusted person in this environment, he or she starts to believe the propaganda and attribute any adverse circumstances to his or her identity group, not to his or her individual abilities and choices. The non-stop social justice narrative teaches people to see everything as a social justice grievance.
So is it any wonder that some women at Google started to really believe that they were being oppressed and sued? You reap what you sow.
Boom. Nailed it.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
building up quite the strawmen there
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Typical leftie - "just shut up"
Self righteous and arrogant.
Let's impeach Trump, this is HIS fault!
Once Google denied that their gender gap could possibly be caused by any non-discriminatory factors, all you are left with is discrimination.
This is only the beginning. Class-action suits will soon follow and the statements of top Google executives in response to the Damore memo have painted Google into a corner.
To echo other posters, couldn't happen to a nicer company.
K, Ki, and Holly. One on a laptop, another in her cubicle, in front of her desktop PC, a third on her android cell. Search for coworker with higher salary who is male and each one gets the same answer. "so and so", two cubicles down.
Of course Google ads come up first, one of them advertising "Injured at work? Office discrimination? Call this number now!
I, and probably no one outside of Google, know the details of these cases but, can you really hope to succeed in making a class action suit with just three cases?
Also, they "were put in a career path that paid less than those of males?". Maybe they weren't good enough for the higher paying paths.
so, can I sue for pay discrimination due to age as well now?
That old person with YEARS of experience gets paid more than me, the-no-experience-just-out-of-college-grad. how dare they!!!! its age discrimination!! rable rable rable!!!
The former employees, Kelly Ellis, Holly Pease and Kelli Wisuri, all left the company after being put on career paths within the company that they say would pay them less than their male counterparts.
Let me get this straight. They aren't suing because they were being paid less, they're suing because in the future they might've been paid less?
There are so many variables that go into determining comp packages... performance reviews and aggregate internal statistics (e.g., male vs. female comp) are easily discoverable, but they are just two data points among many. For example, I read an article written by a female television news reporter who discussed her first job out of college. She discovered that her male peer with same credentials, role, etc. was making a few thousand dollar more per year. She opted to ask her boss about the discrepancy, and her boss told her that her peer received more "because he asked." I found just that one anecdote so revealing about the myriad factors that go into pay decisions.
Discrimination based on gender is illegal and has been for decades. Ladies, if you are in a situation where the law is being violated and you are the victim, I strongly recommend that you do something about it. PLEASE. The only way we can make this kind of discrimination history is to challenge it everywhere it is found using the tools you have. If you need to sue, do it!
By the way... I'm the old white guy sitting in the cube next to yours, doing the same work as you and I dislike unfairness too. I think that most (though not all) of the people who are like me (white and male) would feel the same way and would support your quest for fair treatment.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
At one time I might have put up a defense for them, but not anymore. Far too much BS coming out of Google these days, and they good and cleanly shot themselves in both their feet with the Memo fiasco.
This sure is an inconvenient story, isn't it? Google, that solidly left-wing company, so left that they fired a man for a very well written and calm critique of Googleâ(TM)s policies (with rather decent suggestions to improve things, mind you). He argued that Google was becoming an "ideological echo chamber" where right-of-center views weren't welcome. He was dismissed for creating a hostile work environment, proving the point. Now Google is being sued for not being far enough left. Google may well end up arguing the exact same points the memo author made in court. I'm making the popcorn, this is going to be a great show.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Actually, when I saw the title, I predicted that the thread would be full of self-righteous virtue-signaling SJW assholes like yourself. So far, my prediction has been spot on.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
"reverse discrimination" .
This strawman is getting old, along with all the others in your post.
Name sounds familiar. Oh yeah, She claimed she was sexually harassed two years ago. Obviously, nothing came of it, so she moved on to the next feminist myth.
Note to anyone hiring: Do not hire people who put "Patriarchy Smashing" on their list of skills on LinkedIn. Or this will happen to you!
Whoa there ganjadude, you need to watch your terminology or someone might get offended. You should use the gender-neutral "straw persons" or perhaps the more modern preferred terminology "persons of straw" when pointing out logical fallacies. I don't quite know if this could be construed as a micro-aggression, but it's at least a pico-agression and probably closer to a nano-aggression.
I see SJW thrown around so often I just interpret as "person I disagree with". So yes, there are people posting here you disagree with. If you keep looking for uniform thinking you might want to try another site.
So many lawsuits, class action on age discrimination, class action on sex discrimination for women, soon a class action on sex discrimination from men fired by James and people he's contacting, multiple lawsuits for interfering with businesses on videos, advertising, search engine ranking in the EU, etc.
It's almost like instead of focusing on business, Googles views are causing all these lawsuits. Crazy how that karma comes back.
Gender or minority-based pay discrimination can be identified by answering just one simple question: are there any jobs in the company or organization that are performed both by people across the relevant demographics being compared with approximately the same level of experience where there is a difference in rate of pay? If yes, then there is discrimination. If not, then you cannot infer that there is any. Even when the jobs that pay the most are dominated by whiite males, for example, you cannot reasonably infer pay discrimination based upon that statistic because there can be a multitude of factors which can impact which people even both to apply for certain types of jobs, and which are entirely outside of the company's ability to control. The only thing you can reasonably expect a company to do is to pay its employees ethically and fairly for the work that they do, and this pay should be reflective only of the demands that the work places upon an individual. Trying to get companies to fix sociological and societal problems that might cause people of mostly one gender to apply only for certain types of positions in the first place cannot reasonably be expected to be a company's responsibility to mitigate. That responsibility falls on all of us... not to give women or minorities more incentive to apply for such jobs, but to not give them any disincentive to do so.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
*slow clap*
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Which of the 74 genders they believe exists on the left coast are underpaid? I thought the concept of two genders was illegal in Caliphornia. Amusing considering Google is a big SJW proponent.
I see SJW thrown around so often I just interpret as "person I disagree with"
No, the term you're thinking of here is "nazi".
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
I wonder if anyone at Google is smart enough to understand the concept of a saturating (to the left) function. Because they have one!
"You look amazing in that bathing suit, like a rock star" is the example of "sexual harassment" obviously, she was wearing a bathing suit and he gave her a compliment.
Maybe he would have been better off if he said nothing (speech control rules 101) since that is what this B.S. is really about. Speech codes, thought control, and censorship.
I'm guessing that Vic Gundotra is not a beautiful man ~ Brad Pitt, lacking the hard muscles, or height of a Rock or Chris Hemsworth, the unabashed charisma of Samuel L Jackson, or the accent of an Antonio Banderas
Suspicions confirmed: http://www.alamy.com/stock-pho...
Vic is a little beta short average guy despite his excellent programming brains
No, the term you're thinking of here is "nazi".
No, that refers to overprivileged virgins.
Lighten up, Francis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Kelli Wisuri was a Philosophy major until she took a 12-week software engineering program at Hackbright Academy in 2016. That was apparently after she worked at Google. She was a Brand Evangelist and/or Communications Specialist at Google.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelliwiz
Word verification: autocrat
DING DING DING DING we have a winner folks!
Oh, to be James Damore's attorney right now.
Google either is going to have to effectively admit one of two things:
1. Damore was right, and there are in fact gender differences.
- or -
2. Google discriminated against women and owes a whole lot of women a lot of back pay
If Google goes for #2, expect the next grievance group in line to file suit....
Lefties are biting the lefty hands that feed them. This lawsuit is all but guaranteed to be frivolous but I hope it becomes class action status and then google loses. Then keeps getting sued for equally BS reasons over and over and over again. Fuck google let them burn. May the same thing happen to the rest of silicon valley too.
He may think he likes living in a fair world. But if he woke up tomorrow as a black woman at google he'd be dead by the end of the day.
See white people are blind to the suffering of others because they can't experience suffering. It's written into the nature of the universe.
Sadly nobody knows why this is because of the overabundance of white men in physics... they can't observe the phenomena
Whoa there ganjadude, you need to watch how you administer non-verbal praise, facetious or not. The proper way to "clap" is to click your fingers. Clapping is an oppressive expression that shows your privilege. However many pico-aggressions you just committed before you have definitely crossed into micro aggression territory. Find the nearest minority or woman and give them $1000 to reaffirm that you are an ally to the cause and not an alt-right cis gendered sexist- racist- homophobe- xenophobe- islamaphobe deplorable.
Split her time between scotland and cali while working on her reasonably chill philosophy degree.
Gets hired by google
Complains that someone said she looked good in a swimsuit. Quits.
Then takes website maker 101 and complains that google had her doing shitty BA work instead of engineering tasks.
Lol ok. I hope google gets sued hard for making this bed that the rest of the world had to put up with.
I see attempts to whitewash the term so often I just shake my head.
It's not going away.
It's "neruoatypical clap".
Oh, please.
If either side of the political spectrum holds a monopoly on self righteousness or arrogance, they've got a direct competitor selling an awfully close substitute.
Seriously.
There is no "reverse discrimination", there's just "politically acceptable discrimination".
You know, like the Jews in 1938. The blacks in 1948. The gays in 1958.
And as we all know, those people who hated the politically acceptable group at the time all turned out to be entirely correct and history has judged them very kindly.
In the CS department where I work, we admit generally equal numbers of males and females. They are admitted because they have excellent SAT and GPAs and other assessment scores. By time they are senior, women are in the minority.
Why? Self selection bias. The CS program is tough. The less capable males are trained to be confident so they are more likely to stick around. Females are more self critical, so the less capable ones are more likely to change majors.
The result is that only the top notch females stick around to graduate. When I taught machine learning I got only juniors, seniors, and grad students. My TA and I quickly realized that we didn't need to bother writing answer keys in advance. We'd just take the answers from these three girls (two domestic, one from china), check them for correctness, and pick the best for each one. These gave us exemplary answers that were used to judge what would get maximum points.
Compared to them, the top males produced answers that were no less correct. But these girls especially wrote answers that were more concise, clearer, and easier to evaluate.
Teaching other topics to grads and undergrads, I've generally seen similar patterns. Teaching computer architecture, my best student was a girl in more than one semester, and the girls tended to work harder, with the majority of them in the top half of the class. And once again, I saw similar patterns among engineers while I worked in industry.
I work at a good school but there are lots of higher ranked schools. Google should be careful hiring me into a management, because if a female engineer graduated from a decent school I'm going to assume she is like the ones I have taught first hand and not be prepared to think less unless I see undeniable poor performance that can't be explained by things beyond her control. Most of the males are also amazing I'm sure but my experiences have taught me that less capable ones manage to graduate and get hired, so each one would have to prove himself to me individually before I'm willing to take some of the same risks with their work assignments.
If you want to bitch and moan about how women get an unfair disadvantage or advantage, all of y'all can kiss my ass unless you have had years of experience managing and teaching. Everyone else is by definition speaking from ignorance.
I must have read a different memo. The memo I read implied that a large portion of the writer's co-workers are innately less qualified and shouldn't be there (since if Google is going too far to improve diversity then clearly some people were hired instead of more qualified people). It backed this up with a biased selection of junk science interpreted through motivated reasoning.
Google is an advertising company, so they have some of the best statisticians working for them and are competitive in AI research. Given how high recruitment costs usually are you can bet they have some of their statisticians and AI looking at optimizing the hiring process. I'm sure they are looking at all possible indicators of qualified candidates.
I notice how when left-wing orgs are censoring and banning right-wing posters, the argument is "they're a private company, they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. They're not obligated to give you a platform." Equality is out the window.
But when it's the left who is on the receiving end of some bullshit, the story changes. All of a sudden, the private company must treat everyone the same, or it's "discrimination", and time for lawsuits, threats, and doxxing.
These are professional-level positions. Pay is negotiated. If you didn't negotiate the same pay or benefits as another co-worker, then maybe push for more next time, or look elsewhere. I'm sure you'll find men in the company in similar roles as other men who make more. What's the argument then?
Nazi is to SJWs what SJW is to Nazis.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm confused, is "whitewash" racist?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
http://altshulerberzon.com/wp-...
I must have read a different memo. The memo I read implied that a large portion of the writer's co-workers are innately less qualified and shouldn't be there
I think you did. The memo we're all talking about was saying that competent women weren't as interested in working at Google because they created an environment that is hostile to women. Apparently these women are agreeing.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAA...AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Google's SJW chickens coming home to roost. Fuckin' aye!
*furious clap*
bump micro and pico!! lets completely freak out
*louder*
and bump all that privilegesome dont have hands
*whistles*
The memo we're all talking about was saying that competent women weren't as interested in working at Google because they created an environment that is hostile to women.
In that respect, it would seem the memo was largely self-fulfilling.
Everyone knows these companies would fall apart without the input of muh lady.
Wait. It just occurred to me that you might mean the Damore memo. It's just that his recommendations really amounted to advocating for "separate but equal" job descriptions for men and women (Women can handle the "cooperative tasks" like talking, and leave the thinking for the men [or groups of women, since really if you put enough together they might just be able to do a man's job]). I must be too biased by my liberal shaded glasses to have thought that worth considering.
Just let me quickly run that by my focus group of female programmers.....
Oh it looks like doing that would make them less likely to want to work at Google. And apparently even asking that has reduced their opinion of Google. That's odd. I'm sure Damore did a more complete study when crafting his recommendations, so clearly my focus group is also biased. Once the study behind his recommendations is published, I'm sure he'll be vindicated.
inhale my vagina fumes
... they magically ended up in a position where engineers perform better but these three don't have an engineering background.
Just like that lady that was in the news for suing Uber. She went from sales to engineering w/o any studies or experience in between.
That's a huge problem in tech now. You get all these entitled assholes (male & female) with no engineering background ending up in engineering positions and in most cases their performance is just below that of their more skilled peers. How do they end up there? Well, there's the need to fill up quotas or the need for diversity or sometimes they just ask to be transferred to that after noticing those positions pay more.
Rant aside, I'm really glad Google is being sued by the some of the monsters they've created.
Can you point to where he suggested "separate but equal"?
It seems to me that he was advocating for equal treatment. Specifically, that the jobs should be changed for everyone. He talked about "pair programming and more collaboration", being less competitive and "allow[ing] those exhibiting cooperative behavior to thrive", etc. None of those suggestions said anything about creating separate roles for women.
He also talked about opening up the gender/race restricted programs to everyone. Assuming such programs exist (and nobody has said they don't), Google currently doesn't even have "separate but equal", but simply "separate".
I'm upset that Google isn't paying me top wage either. I don't work for them, but why should they discriminate against me for that?
Your focus group of female programmers may react differently if what you presented them was based on an accurate reading of Damore's paper.
You could kill a white person while screaming "die evil white cracker" and it still wouldn't be racist. Only whitey can be racist.
Could you direct me to where the OP misrepresents an individual's opinion in order to justify a rebuttal? I don't think you know what 'Straw man' means...
Congratulations! You have successfully figured out how Slashdot works.
Your just reward of '-1, Flamebait' should be arriving shortly.
I'm baffled by the concept that Google is left-wing. It has suggested in the past that it favours equality of opportunity for its employees, and I didn't realise fairness was a left wing thing. In the UK, though, Google is more seen as, on average, centre-right through its association with David Cameron's prime ministership. Cameron held that equality of opportunity and a lack of discrimination on the basis of gender or sexual orientation were solidly conservative values. I lean to the liberal side, but had to applaud that.
When called on their own pay gap, they explained that it was due to gender differences in the types of jobs preferred? Well, that's the gender pay gap in a nutshell.
No, not unless the company is doing something to discourage women from this role. You can't say "I want to be paid the same as a top engineer, but I don't like the sound of that job so I'd like to do something of my choosing instead". Gender pay gap comes down to either barriers or discouragement tom people entering high-paid roles based on gender, or people performing identical roles just as well but with pay differences based on gender
Can we add SI-phobe to those who think micro is closer to pico than nano?
I sort of hope that "whoa there ganjadude" becomes its own meme.
How well did it go for the last person who criticized google with their name attached?
I've heard of (an apocryphal?) saying from Poland / Eastern Europe during the Cold War:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fomOtKxGkr8
I've looked them up on linkedin
Run of the mill at best. I wonder what made them think they've deserved better?
The plaintiffs will win the suit.
Because let me explain how the law works in layman's terms:
If a man makes more than a woman, that is pay discrimination. If a woman earns more than a man, that is because she is more qualified.
Any questions?
Well there is a group of female programmers to consult how lovely . I hope it is more populous than one.
Everything is racist.
When everything is racist, nothing is racist.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Everyone knows women are paid more for the same work. Those who say otherwise are flat out lying.