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HP Users Complain About 10-Minute Login Lag During 'Win 10 Update' (theregister.co.uk)

Posted by msmash on from the call-IT dept.

A number of HP device owners are complaining of seeing black screens for around five to 10 minutes after entering their Windows login information. From a report: They appear to be pointing the finger of blame at Windows 10 updates released September 12 for x64-based systems. One, a quality update called KB4038788, offered a whopping 27 bullet points for general quality improvements and patches, such as an "issue that sometimes causes Windows File Explorer to stop responding and causes the system to stop working." Another, KB4038806, was a "critical" patch for Adobe Flash Player that allowed remote code execution.

49 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Adobe Flash!? by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    Another, KB4038806, was a "critical" patch for Adobe Flash Player that allowed remote code execution.

    People still keep Adobe Flash on their system?

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:Adobe Flash!? by nonicknameavailable · · Score: 2

      Built in to Edge

      --
      Mendacem Memorem Esse Oportet
    2. Re:Adobe Flash!? by zixxt · · Score: 2

      Another, KB4038806, was a "critical" patch for Adobe Flash Player that allowed remote code execution.

      People still keep Adobe Flash on their system?

      Flash rocks! I play about a dozen flash based games, and on my netbooks flash videos are faster, use less memory and smoother then html5 videos. Heck I was watch full screen flash animation videos on my old Pentium 133.

      --
      ---- GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    3. Re:Adobe Flash!? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Flash is built into Windows 10, and is updated as a regular part of Windows. ...this also means the users doesn't have the option of opting out for security reasons either, since it's on the system from day 1 and they have no control over updates.

    4. Re:Adobe Flash!? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      For corporate environments it will NEVER go away. We have training videos for new hires and they are all flash based

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    5. Re: Adobe Flash!? by Monster_user · · Score: 2

      Flash should not be built into Edge. Edge should use HTML5 native video playback.

    6. Re: Adobe Flash!? by dougdonovan · · Score: 1

      as the IT dept says...relax...it'll be ok, its windows, it will fix itself...patience.

    7. Re:Adobe Flash!? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Because some web sites still require Flash. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    8. Re:Adobe Flash!? by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      Built in to Edge

      Link? I needed to install Flash on a Windows 10 machine to be able to watch screencast.com (Jing) videos that my dev manager sent to me so Windows 10+Edge does not come with Flash out of the box.

  2. 5-minute black screens - pansies! by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >> We saw black screens for up to 10 minutes after our Windows 10 upgrade. (Sniff.)

    Did it come back AT ALL?

    >> Yes, but...

    Then I'd call it success. You won't find any sympathy from people whose computers refused to boot after a Windows 10 "upgrade".

    1. Re:5-minute black screens - pansies! by HiloJoe · · Score: 1

      You know they didn't mean 10 minutes in a row, right?

    2. Re:5-minute black screens - pansies! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      10 minutes is nothing. Microsoft has taking the abuse of customers to new lows, but this isn't one. I have windows 8.1, and sometimes the (non-forced) updates can take over a half hour.

    3. Re: 5-minute black screens - pansies! by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      Which when you're tech savvy enough, will either run well in WINE, or ij that WindowsVM suggested.

  3. Just checked my work machine.... by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    It is an HP, has both patches, no problems here.

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  4. Well they bought an HP by slashmydots · · Score: 3, Interesting

    HP doesn't believe in SSDs. I think they literally believe SSDs are just a myth. So yes, expect login delays as Windows 10 runs a small Defender scan EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOG IN! And don't forget indexing and superfetch. But I've noticed that there is a huge CPU bomb of a recompile after the latest update. It processed on a rather fast PC of mine for at least 5 minutes. Still, 1 CPU core and minimum I/O hit on the SSD meant I could still operate the computer at least.

    1. Re: Well they bought an HP by freddej · · Score: 1

      I bought the HP Omen as a gaming PC. It has a 256GB SSD for C: and 1TB spin drive for D:, so I don't think your assessment is in order here.

    2. Re: Well they bought an HP by war4peace · · Score: 1

      No, they are running a crappy inventory system with exposed data files which Windows 10 tries to index. Let me guess, that inventory system is a glorified Excel full of formulas.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re: Well they bought an HP by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      Sadly, they're probably trying to market to people that see 1TB or whatever hard disk capacity and equate that to being some kind of performance value.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    4. Re: Well they bought an HP by El+Cubano · · Score: 2

      HP doesn't believe in SSDs.

      So, this isn't exactly the same thing, but I have a ~2.5 year old HP business laptop. It came with a standard HDD and a few weeks ago the HDD began to fail. I bought a new SSD and transferred the data over (I caught the failure early enough thanks to a misbehaving VM and SMART that I had only minor corruption in a few spots and I was able to correct everything I needed). After making the switch, it feels like I have a brand new laptop. I am absolutely amazed at how much of a difference just the HDD->SSD change makes.

      I have another small Dell that came with SSD, but I only use it when I travel or when I need something very light and small. It also replaced a much older machine so I attributed the speed up mostly to the better CPU, more memory, and probably motherboard improvements. For everyday work I tend to use the larger HP I referred to above. However, since I have a very recent comparison of the exact same machine with HDD and then SSD, I can honestly say that I am all about SSDs now.

    5. Re: Well they bought an HP by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      I have an HP with a 64GB SSD

    6. Re: Well they bought an HP by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Of course. A slllooooow PC means it is time to throw it out and buy a new one. ChaCHING!

      It is this attitude of them being penny wise dollar dumb why I recommend corporate clients to use Dell instead. They always cheap out on purpose or have quirks like only Sansdisk can boot from USB so we will get fed up and buy new ones all the time.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    7. Re: Well they bought an HP by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      For Vista and Windows 10, those 1 core "recompile bombs" were Windows indexing installed updates to figure out what the next one you needed was. Though, most discovered this because Windows Updates would simply dog out an entire core indefinitely, on a single or dual core, anytime an update was superseded.

    8. Re: Well they bought an HP by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      *Windows Vista, and Windows 7 before they patched it. No edit functionality.

    9. Re: Well they bought an HP by enrique556 · · Score: 1

      I think you've hit the nail on the head. Windows 10 is designed with SSD performance in mind. I doubt they have any spinning platters in their pool of testing machines (if they have any testing machines). Windows 10 is useable 50% of the time on a spinning disk, the rest of the time, it's preparing updates, scanning for viruses, or collating telemetry. It may and/or may not be doing other things under the "Windows host proxy surrogate" service.

    10. Re: Well they bought an HP by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I have 3 HP machines, one provided for work. All of them came with SSDs. I just went to HP's website and clicked laptop. Page 1 has 20 laptops on it, 18 of which comes with SSDs. This isn't a custom search, just the first thing presented to the user when they go to buy a HP laptop.

      So next time remember: slashmydots doesn't believe in paying for a machine with SSDs.

      Windows 10 runs a small Defender scan EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOG IN!

      No it doesn't. It runs a maintenance activity that doesn't take anywhere near as long as a scan on a daily basis. You don't need to be logged in, and you can set this activity for some random time like 3am. Especially on a laptop you should never see windows defender doing manual scan or maintenance activities on a default install of windows 10, you will only get a notification that a scan completed once a week.

      Windows defender *does* scan after a windows update.

    11. Re: Well they bought an HP by Entropius · · Score: 2

      So in other words Microsoft hasn't figured out apt yet?

      Somehow my linux system never explodes while trying to update anything.

    12. Re: Well they bought an HP by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      Well, my Linux system did, several times. Most recent issue I ran into was a system which had downloaded kernel source packages for dozens of kernels, and ran out of inodes. The last attempt I made to do an update seemed to pull several kernels at once, and kept failing on the second to most recent. The vmlinuz, initrd, and Grub were pointed to that second to last, so the system likely wouldn't have rebooted if I tried. At least Synaptic, and most apt based package managers, have an "optional" console which can be opened to view what is actually going on. Whereas Windows just sits there displaying incorrect information, requiring that you be clairvoyant to resolve the issue.

    13. Re: Well they bought an HP by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      HP doesn't believe in SSDs.

      Not true. I bought a HP Pavillion 15-au616tx and that came with an SSD. I'd never buy another HP product, though, as it was DOA and took more than six weeks to be replaced with HP spending the first two weeks insisting they were only going to repair it and not replace it. Fuck 'em.

  5. Feature by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    This is normal for Windows 10. Think of it as a feature, not a bug. Log in, and then go stand around the water cooler for ten minutes.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Feature by fizzer06 · · Score: 2

      They call it Windows "10" because it will take 10 minutes from log in to desktop. Wait for Windows 15. Or just wait.

    2. Re: Feature by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      My experience with a Surface Pro 4, is that Windows 10 also takes 10 minutes to open most UWP control panels.

  6. Fail by sexconker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We're now seeing Windows 10 machines losing their trust relationship with the DC.
    The only way to fix it is to drop and rejoin, but you need a local admin account (or one specifically privileged for those domain operations) on the machine to be able to do that.

    And our imaging process sets a random password for the admin account and disables it. Because these are domain machines only and we want them to be secure.

    So now we have to hope we've got cached domain admin credentials on these boxes (since we started Windows 10 deployments only recently, it seems like we do so far), unplug from the network, login with cached credentials, create an admin account, drop and rejoin, kill off the admin account, etc.

    Fucking Windows 10 every fucking time. FUCK YOU MS!

    1. Re:Fail by sexconker · · Score: 1

      LAPS could be used, but why, exactly?

      The goal is for no one to know the local admin password and no one to ever need it.
      If Windows 10 and its updates keep breaking the SC between machines and their domain, we'd likely resort to setting the admin passwords after imaging and then storing them in KeePass. No Windows/Domain/Network-based attack or Windows vulnerability is going to expose that, nor will a domain fuck up cause them to be inaccessible.

      Not sure what this has to do with Mimikatz, exactly. Cached credentials and NTLM hashes? I believe MS patched that out for 2012 R2 and alter functional levels.

    2. Re: Fail by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      Even still, doesn't change much. A device without a local admin losing trust with the domain, is a device which is nearly useless until it is in the hands of I.T. to fix it.

    3. Re:Fail by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

      LAPS is the solution to your problem going forward. Don't fight it, its the correct way to prevent this in the future..It creates a database of logins and rotates them regularly. Its very lightweight and easy to deploy in less than an hour.

      NT password recovery is the solution to your problem now. Never met a pc that couldn't crack into.

      Both tools work on windows 10 machines. I've used them both many times.

      --
      -
    4. Re:Fail by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      It's not going to help now, but when you get the systems back up have a look at Microsoft LAPS >> https://technet.microsoft.com/...

      It lets you set a unique local admin password on your AD joined workstation, store that password in AD, and automatically rotate it regularly. It's a pretty nice piece of kit.

      For the machines losing their trust relationship, did you open a case?

    5. Re:Fail by sexconker · · Score: 1

      The admin password is set to a random password during the imaging process.

      If anything bad happens on the box, we nuke and pave. The boxes are disposable by policy. If forensics/legal issues come up, it's generally not our problem. They get a copy of the drive and do with it what they will.
          Boxes that aren't disposable, or that are used by privileged users DO have long, random admin passwords which are recorded.
      Domain trust breaking is a sign we're doing it wrong, yes - by giving in and deploying Windows 10. Windows Updates fuck shit up nearly every fucking month for Windows 10.

    6. Re:Fail by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Dropping and readding is the easiest way, and is nondestructive to anything the user cares about. The second easiest is running some powershell cmdlets. So what? It takes about a minute.

  7. Funny, not funny by TheStickBoy · · Score: 2

    Last night, I went to use my wife's HP laptop. We share a common login/password. as soon as I pressed enter on the password the updates immediately started. no prompts! When the PC finally booted up all my wife's work was lost because it did not close the open applications gracefully.

    needless to say I got in trouble.

    1. Re:Funny, not funny by BLToday · · Score: 1

      Wednesday night right? Happens to me so often with Windows 10 Pro. It's at the point where if I need to be away from the computer for an extended period of time, I just save my work and shutdown the computer. Can't trust the hibernate/sleep to not shutdown or restart after MSFT pushes out an update.

  8. I had the same issue a few months ago. by kevin98055 · · Score: 1

    I experienced this issue after upgrading to the Windows 10 anniversary edition (build 1607) several months ago. After pouring over various forum posts, disabling 'fast startup' in the power options seems to have fixed the issue for me.

  9. Re: Windows 10A by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Personally I use Fast Track Windows insider Pro Academic.

  10. Why do Windows updates take so long? by Entropius · · Score: 2

    Seriously, why?

    It sometimes takes Windows longer to install updates than it takes me to install an entire Ubuntu OS. What the hell is it *doing*? It once took me four *hours* to install some Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable package (of a slightly different version than what I already had) on a fast modern computer with plenty of RAM and a SSD.

    1. Re:Why do Windows updates take so long? by sgage · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is my opinion that MS is simply technologically incompetent, and have ended up building something so complicated that even they don't understand what the heck is going on. I don't look for it to get any better, and Windows 7 is my last Windows. It's just a big hot ripe mess. The updating retardedness is just one manifestation of this.

      But seriously, it seems like everything they do is an order of magnitude more complicated than it needs to be. They should never have tried to make one Windows to rule them all, thereby attempting to turn desktops into smart phones. IMO, that was a fatal mistake - they should have had two separate lines, desktop and phone-tablet-touchy-feely. Now desktop Windows is a Frankenstein monster, with the good win32 desktop bolted onto the Metro (whatever they're calling it this week) nonsense. Sorry, I do NOT want my desktop looking like airport signage.

    2. Re:Why do Windows updates take so long? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Just a guess:

      - Starting with Win7, during beta the install and boot-up process were ridiculously long. Like, 10 minutes to boot up on a fast hardware, over an hour to install. Microsoft decided to get around that problem by hijacking the hibernate function and shipping a system as image to be booted up and then somewhat customized to needs. This keeps boot-up time short because instead of loading and initializing each program and service separately, they just load up an image of a 90% complete running system and just apply finishing touches / customizations.

      - when you apply "deeper" updates, the boot-up image needs to be rebuilt.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    3. Re:Why do Windows updates take so long? by iampiti · · Score: 1

      Totally agree. I'd pay at a heartbeat for a Windows 10 with 7's UI and without all the crap...but no, Microsoft aren't interested in selling that

    4. Re: Why do Windows updates take so long? by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      On Windows 7, sometimes it is literally doing nothing. The update simply didn't tell Windows Update it was finish, and so sat there in an infinite loop until you pressed Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

  11. Temporary workaround by kelarius · · Score: 1

    Disabling the App Readiness service (disable, not just stop) is a temporary workaround, it will start up normally. It also disables updates on reboot, if that's of any use to you :)

    --
    Personally I'd rather have my idiots at home glued to the TV than out doing idiotic things
  12. Speaking of Windows updates by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    You know how Windows 7 "sometimes" has trouble sleeping? You've got to put it to sleep twice? Neither I nor my lady has had this problem for days, and then both our machines did it last night, right when Microsoft has released another update.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"