Slashdot Asks: Which IT Hiring Trends Are Hot, and Which Ones Are Going Cold?

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Slashdot Asks: Which IT Hiring Trends Are Hot, and Which Ones Are Going Cold?

Posted by BeauHD on Monday September 18, 2017 @10:40AM from the icy-hot dept.

snydeq writes: Recruiting and retaining tech talent remains IT's biggest challenge today, writes Paul Heltzel, in an article on what trends are heating up and what's cooling off when it comes to IT staffing. "One thing hasn't changed this year: Recruiting top talent is still difficult for most firms, and demand greatly outstrips supply," writes Heltzel. "That's influencing many of the areas we looked at, including compensation and retention. Whether you're looking to expand your team or job searching yourself, read on to see which IT hiring practices are trending and which ones are falling out of favor." What are you seeing companies favoring in the hiring market these days?

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Hot grits on the way out. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 10:44 · Score: 1

Hot: Python
Cold: Slashcode
Clowns by turkeydance · 2017-09-18 10:45 · Score: 2

have you seen that movie?
1. Re:Clowns by msauve · 2017-09-18 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  Spam: The Movie?
  
  Because that's what this is, pure and simple. Check the submitter's history, constant submissions of articles from the same site.
  
  Clickbait. Just say no.
  
  Bad /. editor, bad.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Demand outstripping supply? by rsilvergun · 2017-09-18 10:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

Unless we're talking H1-Bs I don't see that in the slightest. What I do see is several of my buddies in dead end jobs (and a few acquaintances rocking recent CS degrees stuck in crap IT jobs) while workers here on cheap visas and outsourcing dominate the industry. I suppose if they can keep this up though nobody local will go into IT (since you can't get work). I can tell you this, I just sent my kid to college to be a nurse. IT ranked below liberal arts degree on the list of things I wanted her to major in.

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
1. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 10:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The key word here is "top." Every single business wants to higher the top of the industry elites....not just regular people who managed to get a degree.
  There is a difference in what top tier talent can deliver. Plenty of people consider themselves to be top tier talent until the real world hits them in the face. But that is a separate issue.
  There are three problems with retaining top tier talent:
  1) they are expensive, and businesses want top tier on the cheap.
  2) Other businesses want them, so their have competition luring them away.
  3) They don't like being overworked or otherwise made to put up with shit, and know they don't have to put up with it, and will quit when things get bad.
  These are the real reasons why demand outstrips supply. It has nothing to do with the total supply of IT talent, and everything to do with the much smaller supply of top-tier it talent that is willing to be underpaid and overworked.
2. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by JohnFen · 2017-09-18 10:53 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This depends a lot on where you are looking. There are tons of companies that have a great deal of trouble filling developer positions, but they aren't in the usual cities or (often) with companies that are well-known in the computer industry.
  They also tend to have the most interesting and challenging work. For example, do you want to work with room-sized robots tackling computer vision and AI problems? There are lumber mill equipment manufacturers who badly need you.
3. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 11:11 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I'm not so convinced that most management teams would know actual "top tier talent" if it hit them in the face, nor would they know how to let new blood actually recommend improvements that go against company culture.
4. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  They are talking about top talent. Assign some percentage, like maybe even 20% to "top." 80% still won't qualify. Supply outstrips demand in their top tier. This is not news. This is why "top" != 100%. Top == scarce. Otherwise Top == average and that makes no sense. So yeah, there is a shortage of top X. Because top.
5. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by buddyglass · 2017-09-18 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see that at all. I see my coworkers leaving for greener pastures and getting raises when they do.
6. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Chokai · 2017-09-18 12:21 · Score: 2
  
  I've seen this in particular with millennials and those who had helicopter parents getting hit by the real world for the first time. Some times hard.
  Oh the number of discussions I've had with folks over the last ~8 years that amount to: No you really aren't worth that much money yet, yes I know you graduated from xyz cse program. However doing good academically does not mean you are going to be as good in 2 years as the dev with 10 years experience that graduated from abc school's mid-tier cse program. In particular when he's spent that working here and understands the business in addition to the technology now.
7. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  Move to a better city, or know your market and set expectations appropriately.
8. Re: Demand outstripping supply? by ShanghaiBill · 2017-09-18 12:48 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Females get harassed in programming anyway
  Sexual harassment exists in all professions. I have seen zero evidence that it is more common in programming. My company has dealt with dozens of complaints from the sales dept, from shipping/receiving, and even one from the accounting dept. Number from programming or IT: 0.
9. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 13:32 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  The dev with 10 years experience just turned 30 and is ripe to be fired and replaced by the new grad. The old dev will never work again, not anywhere, not ever. Experience is a curse, and if you don't believe it, you're next to be fired. Bye-bye!
  I second this. I did manage to find two short gigs after my main employer of 20 years closed our lab and fired everyone but I was replaced by H1B's, each time. Until we plug the H1B RATLINES coming into the country a CS degree is a one way ticket to serving french fries for the rest of your life.
  Thank god I put LOTS of money in my 401K. Sorry about you new folks just coming into the workforce. The rock stars will find jobs for a few years, the rest of you are screwed.
10. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by p4nther2004 · 2017-09-18 13:38 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Egads. Here I am nearly 50 and I'm still programming. (And I worked with a guy who literal wrote a book on C++ and he was still doing daily programming in his 70s) The work is out there..
11. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 13:56 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  AC, because I'm a coward.
  Find where your HR posts the H1-B notices, and complain to the DOL if you can't find them. Read them, and complain to the DOL if the salary is unrealistic or if you know someone domestic who is capable and willing to take the job.
  It is not racist to look around at a sea of foreigners, think about your underemployed self or friends, and quietly ask yourself WTF. It's a broken system that doesn't benefit you or the H1-B workers.
  This is particularly important if the workers are coming from Infosys or Tata. These are egregious offenders and treat their workers like prisoners.
12. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 14:16 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Yeah, sure, Wilbur.
  Finding a job is not ever easy, anyone who says that it is, is speaking of personal experience, and I bet by the next job or two in their future, they'll be like "WTF, why is this so hard, it never was before, must be ageism"
  But it is not. It is the way it is supposed to be. I've not found it super hard to find a job in my 40s with 23 years of experience than I did in my 30s. I admit in my 20s I found it dirt easy to find a job, but that was during the dot com party, and that was a serious outlier, if you think that's normal, you really need to adjust your attitude. So, hard but not impossible. Also if you can be flexible where you live, that helps too. Maybe right now isn't the best in TX, but in Pittsburgh, as it is booming, so move to Pittsburgh. Then in 3-5 years, move to Boston.
  Also salary expectations is way the hell out of line. Yes some get those expectations fulfilled, but that too is an outlier and more an indicator of luck than real skill.
13. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by plopez · 2017-09-18 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  You'll find the industry elites in marketing, Google, Amazon, etc. Everyone else solves real problems.
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
14. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by plopez · 2017-09-18 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  no, they are talking about top tier talent for bottom tier salaries,
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
15. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by sycodon · 2017-09-18 15:01 · Score: 1
  
  Managers are idiots.
  They operate in the arena of influence and appearances. If they read in Fortune that some technology is Trending, they'll want to find someone and be able to say their department is Top technology. So their hire fresh turds of of school who've had a few semesters in Visual processing, or some other AI and pay them tons of money while ignoring the people that are actually keeping the company running by maintaining and enhancing the current systems.
  Some AI jock can't make sure the check go out every week.
  
  --
  When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
16. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  I see lots of vacancies in the small market towns in England for developers. The catch is that it's almost impossible to find somewhere to rent in a short time (I've tried, and it has sometimes taken months to find somewhere). The other catch is that they are looking for people with multiple skills, but only one will actually be the one they are wanting to use. It's up to you to try and guess and divine which one they are actually trying to fill.
17. Re: Demand outstripping supply? by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-09-18 15:15 · Score: 1
  
  It's hard to find a programming job that pays a rockstar's salary.
18. Re: Demand outstripping supply? by javaman235 · 2017-09-18 16:47 · Score: 1
  
  That's a good comment. All I know is that the larger industrial world - I'm talking blue collar factories and shops - tends to be underserved by IT, to the point of it costing them big money... But there's so little overlap in the crowds, they don't know what tech can do for them, and devs don't know what they need. The money should be there if that gap is bridged.
  
  --
  -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
19. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-09-18 17:45 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Also, they often don't know why, where or when they need to recruit top talent. Many jobs don't require rock star talent and can be filled by IT staff who are merely good.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
20. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by russbutton · 2017-09-18 17:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The dev with 10 years experience just turned 30 and is ripe to be fired and replaced by the new grad. The old dev will never work again, not anywhere, not ever. Experience is a curse, and if you don't believe it, you're next to be fired. Bye-bye!
  Really? I've been doing UNIX/Linux systems admin, now called DevOps work, since 1989. The job keeps changing and evolving, but it's a lot of the same kinds of skills being called for. Of course in that 28 years I've been let go one way or another 7 times and 10 of the companies I've worked for no longer exist. One company laid me off on a Tuesday, the bank seized the company on Friday and my last check bounced. I eventually got paid, but you just had to laugh.
  I'm now 66 years old and still get calls from recruiters almost daily. I have yet to see anyone turn me down just because of my age.
  The truth is that you have to keep your skill set current. The old standbys of UNIX/Linux savvy, regular expressions, problem solving, and most of all. a willingness to jump in on stuff you know nothing about and figure it out on the fly. That's your bread and butter on a day-to-day basis. Be able work in puppet/chef and have some hands-on with AWS is what everyone wants today. Tomorrow it'll be something else. Ya gotta keep an eye out for what's coming next and get a taste of it.
21. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by AmiMoJo · 2017-09-18 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  Having spoken to a few recruiters it seems that companies are wise to younger applicants padding their CVs, but tend to believe it when older applicants claim to have extensive experience.
  I've seen it a few times myself, when recruiters have accidentally emailed me other people's files. People five years out of university who claim to be god level experts in C++ and XML. That's like claiming to have climbed the world's 50 tallest mountains in the last week, and landed on the moon, and also be a ranked grand master at rock, paper, scissors. They usually list every other technology they have ever heard of too, just to flesh out a few more pages.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
22. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by luis_a_espinal · 2017-09-19 00:43 · Score: 2
  
  What I do see is several of my buddies in dead end jobs (and a few acquaintances rocking recent CS degrees stuck in crap IT jobs)
  Being in dead end jobs or being stuck in crap IT jobs at the start of a career is a given. The trick is to GTFO, hunt niches and develop a career. Easier said than done, but it is not impossible. The process can take years, but it can be done when pursued with diligence and purpose.
  There are some people who are really complacent and lack agency, and as result end up in such jobs. But most people stuck at them aren't necessarily lazy or stupid. It is a matter of circumstances combined with a lack of direction.
  Falling into a dead end job is almost an inevitability if you work in IT/software (or any field for that matter). Staying in one forever, it is not. I implore people not to look at the later option as an inevitability.
23. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by 0100010001010011 · 2017-09-19 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  The truth is that you have to keep your skill set current.
  This has been my experience. If you spend 20 years complaining about 'flavor of the week' technologies you're going to find that industry and technology has shifted from under you.
  How many job openings have people seen lately for mechanical paper drafters?
24. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by Kreplock · 2017-09-19 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  "Recruiting top talent is still difficult for most firms, and demand greatly outstrips supply."
  Yup, after a summertime job hunt with a solid resume, work experience, and knocking out technical interviews like so much batting practice, I would say (based on anecdotal experience, mind), (A) people are full of shit, and (B) that story sucks.
25. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by computational+super · 2017-09-19 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  I personally know a half-dozen people who are very qualified (but, unfortunately over 40) who've been out of work for months, in a market where I keep hearing that demand for "top talent" is so competitive that we need to double the visa cap to "meet the demand".
  
  --
  Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
26. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by computational+super · 2017-09-19 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  The key word here is "top."
  Well, if executives are going to these (or any other) lengths to attract "top-tier" talent, then I must be the lowest of the bottom-tier, because they wouldn't even walk across the room to talk to me.
  
  --
  Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
27. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by computational+super · 2017-09-19 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  Well, hang on. I've had a similar experience; I'm in my mid-40's, been working since I was about 20, never been fired from a job, still appear to have decent prospects, but... these stories make me very nervous; how do they not make you nervous? Do you really think you're THAT much better than half the people posting here (on Slashdot, which doesn't exactly attract incompetents?) Or do you think maybe you've just been very lucky? Although we can (and, based on past experience, will) argue forever about whether or not I'm _really_ any good or if I'm just another stuffed suit with the "same year of experience 20 times", it's indisputable that, on paper at least, I look very good. Whatever objective criteria you can bring to evaluating a person based on a resume, I have it. Yet I've still been rejected from far more jobs than I've been accepted to.
  
  --
  Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
28. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by JohnFen · 2017-09-19 03:01 · Score: 2
  
  I won't name the specific company I know about, because they don't do direct hires. They use a placement agency -- specifically because they can't find candidates on their own. This is because to work there, you're going to have to live in a rural area, about 3 hours from the nearest largish city. Their competitors are similarly located.
  Over the years, I've noticed that there are more companies than you'd think that need talent, pay well, and work with interesting tech -- but exist in the middle of nowhere, so have problems hiring. Someone who is OK with relocating to a rural area can do very well.
29. Re:Demand outstripping supply? by lgw · 2017-09-19 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  "Very qualified" is orthogonal to "top talent". Businesses will pay crazy amounts those who, on paper, look like the top 5%. Meanwhile, they could have hired 2 normal guys, and gotten a lot more done. But managers don't have a salary budget, they have a headcount budget, so it's top talent, money no object, and everyone else is ignored. It's a truly messed-up system.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
30. Re: Demand outstripping supply? by micahraleigh · 2017-09-19 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  As a guy with a daughter who wants to go into IT I've looked at this. There was a headline a month or so ago showing it was more prevalent in IT than other fields. It kind of makes sense if you look at most of the posts on slashdot promoting euthenasia, eugenics, or just randomly killing defenseless people so the public (i.e. government fat cats) can have a bigger piece of the pie. Those people see a vulnerability in women. On the other hand Jennifer Lawrence seems like a lousy negotiator. Hard to tell for individual cases sometimes.
31. Re: Demand outstripping supply? by JohnFen · 2017-09-19 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  The point I was trying to make was not BS. It was that there is a great demand for software engineers if you look at organizations that are not software engineering companies, and are not in the usual places people think of (Silicon Valley, Seattle, etc.)
  I am contractually restrained from giving specific details about the specific companies I am familiar with, but it would be pointless anyway. I've given plenty of useful guideposts for seeking these jobs out: look off the beaten path, be willing to relocate, and inquire with reputable placement agencies. If you do the latter, be sure to tell them that you're willing to work outside of urban areas. They generally have problems finding qualified engineers willing to work outside of cities and would be thrilled to know that you are.
  If that's not enough to get you going, and you need a direct job lead from a stranger on the internet, then perhaps your first step should be to refine your job-hunting skills.
Two Letters .... by dasgoober · 2017-09-18 10:48 · Score: 2

AI .... whether it's really AI or not is immaterial
1. Re:Two Letters .... by plopez · 2017-09-18 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  That's it Exper Systems... It's hot! It's new.. It's.... oh crap
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
2. Re:Two Letters .... by Tony+Isaac · 2017-09-18 16:07 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I've gotten quite a few calls and emails from companies and recruiters using those "AI"-based systems. They say something like, "We have a couple of job openings that seem like a good fit for you. Please call us back ASAP!" Yeah right! If they really had a "couple of openings" that were a "good fit," they would tell me something about the openings that makes them a good fit.
  This "AI" is just the next iteration of SPAM.
Hiring Chief Security Officers with music degrees by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-18 10:51 · Score: 5, Funny

Definitely in a downtrend.
One thing hasn't changed this year: by Gravis+Zero · 2017-09-18 11:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Most firms are still offering too little money for the positions they want filled. Translated, this means most companies do not value IT staff.
The companies with management that believe "demand greatly outstrips supply" are earning the security breaches in their futures.

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
1. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 11:53 · Score: 2
  
  Claiming to be understaffed, but still wasting at least half of everyone's time.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
2. Re: One thing hasn't changed this year: by JeremyDavis · 2017-09-18 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  We work at the same place?
3. Re: One thing hasn't changed this year: by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Not to worry. We'll just make it up with unpaid overtime.
  Or perhaps not.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
4. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by JustNiz · 2017-09-18 14:57 · Score: 2
  
  >> most companies do not value IT staff.
  Assuming you really mean the IT department, most of them are fucking useless anyway, because they nearly all see their job as being a gatekeeper rather than an enabler.
5. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-09-18 15:27 · Score: 1
  
  IT is a custodial position. In today's world of highly commoditized software, an IT position is not a developer position. You take it out of the box, you plug the parts together. You make sure it runs. You keep making sure it runs for several years.
  That's different from software development, even if you have to do a little typing to keep all the pieces working together.
6. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by swb · 2017-09-18 23:08 · Score: 2
  
  Most of the time IT is in a gatekeeper position because they're held responsible for systems that malfunction due to overconsumption of their limited resources, yet at the same time requests for more resources go unheeded.
  I've literally been in the meeting where I've been chided for poor performance due to oversubscription and also told no, we can't spend more money on it, either. What are you supposed to do besides ration resources when demand exceeds supply?
7. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by bravecanadian · 2017-09-19 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  Most of the time IT is in a gatekeeper position because they're held responsible for systems that malfunction due to overconsumption of their limited resources, yet at the same time requests for more resources go unheeded.
  I've literally been in the meeting where I've been chided for poor performance due to oversubscription and also told no, we can't spend more money on it, either. What are you supposed to do besides ration resources when demand exceeds supply?
  This.. exactly this.. remember kids, if you like technology and want to be involved with it as a career, stick in the areas where you "make" something. (Developer, hardware, something)
  IT operations is a horrible, horrible, place to end up. In 99% of companies you're stuck in the exact situation described above, shit on from both sides, and you're managed by bean counters who haven't got a clue.
8. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by DarthVain · 2017-09-19 02:07 · Score: 2
  
  I'll add two similar comments. The first is that your first statement is completely correct. In first hand experience I was in a temporary position for some time, it finally came up for permanent, and I competed for it. After it was all said and done the cancelled the entire thing. When brought in by several managers to tell me the fun news, I noted that there had been other positions that had been posted after, and successfully filled within that time. I was told the reason point blank that my position was not part of "core business". I was flabbergasted. I mentioned to them if the systems I manage go down or have issues, none of those "core business" people are doing any work whatsoever. I received a bunch of blank stares and that is about it. It was only through a later reorg I got out of that area and onto better things where I appear to be more valued.
  Secondly, which is really a combo of the two points, in many cases, your value is only in terms of a current or particular project. No one wants to keep staff on, they just want things done and move on. Which means you get short term tenure, a revolving door of IT. I wouldn't be surprised in the case of Equifax that the security setup and the rest was all done by either external consultants, or by folks brought on for that particular "project" all of who have since moved on. They probably indicated that a system like that needs to be constantly maintained and monitored, and management said "yea sure", and handed it off to the handful of overworked general IT boffins they use to do everything. It could be that patching the security vulnerability was on their "to do" list but when your work is basically an ever expanding exercise in triage, and you tend to do things your immediate manager cares about (which isn't some security patch which *might* be an issue) it could be that they just didn't have the time to get around to it, a couple of months can fly by pretty quick. So yeah, you earn your breaches.
9. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by micahraleigh · 2017-09-19 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  I did a local devops job listing search a month ago (in RTP area). Only 2 or 3 listings. C# was like 70 or so and HTML was many hundreds.
  
  I heard a recruiter say devops is for companies that want to make it really cushy for themselves.
10. Re:One thing hasn't changed this year: by pete6677 · 2017-09-24 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  that's your problem
Infrastructure is a dead end street by Gussington · 2017-09-18 11:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

A good trench digger might dig 20% more earth than an average one, a good plumber might lay 20% more pipe, or save 20% through a clever approach . But a good technology person can deliver a lot more than an entire team of their more average peers. But corporate pay grades never reflect this.
If the good people were paid what they are actually worth you would have no problem attracting them.(Free market etc...)

Oh and Infrastructure is dead, dev and design is where it's at.
1. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  But a good technology person can deliver a lot more than an entire team of their more average peers.
  I believe this is mostly a myth. While there are people who can crank out code and/or applications really fast, the results are often not maintainable because they are either not designed with other maintainers in mind, or use a technique that typical maintenance staff is not familiar with. You want "team-friendly" developers, not lone keyboard cowboys.
  For example, I've built up libraries of code that allow me to throw together typical CRUD apps really quick. However, most others are not familiar with my library and related conventions such that they have a notable learning curve. Second, the conventions it uses may not be liked by a given organization. Each org is persnickety about different things.
  There may be a few wizards that are both quick and team-friendly, but they are pretty rare in my observation. Technical wizardry and people/team skills just don't occur in the same person. I'm just the messenger.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
2. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 11:59 · Score: 2
  
  But you're the kind of guy that writes his own framework....
  It's not how fast you code, it's how well you design (to be modified later), it's how well you execute that design, it's how well you split the work with the rest of the team.
  Team friendly? Building the team is the key skill, sometimes that requires you NOT be friendly. If someone has got to go, that's it. If you're handed a well functioning team, you are lucky indeed. Most teams suck.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
3. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by redmid17 · 2017-09-18 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  A good technology person in forty hours cannot replace hundreds of billable/man-hours in a fixed time. It's simply not possible.
4. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by plopez · 2017-09-18 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  It's a myth see. I searching for a link but it is based on an 60's study of one programming team working one afternoon. Not exactly scientific.
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
5. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 12:53 · Score: 1
  
  I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant by "team friendly". I meant organizing both team members and the architecture around the needs and abilities of the team in order for the team to be as productive as possible. This also applies to regular level coders coding for future maintainers. One has to kind of get into others' thinking processes to make it easy to grok and change for THEM. That's mostly the kind of "people skills" I'm talking about. I didn't really mean "budy budy" type of friendly, at least not as the primary metric.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
6. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-09-18 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  You know as little about trench digging or plumbing as the plumber knows about what you do.
7. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-09-18 18:19 · Score: 1
  
  A good techie can save* 100s of man hours on a 10 man 10 week project, in 40 hours. But so can a good project manager.
  
  *) of course time, once estimated, is used and never given back. But at least the techie will have saved you from a 30 week train wreck.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
8. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Gussington · 2017-09-18 18:23 · Score: 1
  
  It's a myth see. I searching for a link but it is based on an 60's study of one programming team working one afternoon. Not exactly scientific.
  I've worked in a few transformation projects so seen it first hand. 6 months of failure fixed in two weeks by replacing the team with 2 guys.
  Not everything in life needs 'a link to a study'...
9. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Gussington · 2017-09-18 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  You know as little about trench digging or plumbing as the plumber knows about what you do.
  Having dug trenches, laid pipes, installed taps, and architected enterprise transformations I say you're wring. But hey this is the internet so there you go....
10. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Gussington · 2017-09-18 18:29 · Score: 1
  
  I believe this is mostly a myth.
  There may be a few wizards that are both quick and team-friendly, but they are pretty rare in my observation. Technical wizardry and people/team skills just don't occur in the same person. I'm just the messenger.
  Those wizards exist. I agree they aren't common, but they do exist. And the point is when you find one you should pay them whatever you need to keep them. Since replacing them will cost you more in the long run.
11. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-09-19 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  Laying pipes is not being a plumber. It's a vocation, not an activity.
12. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by Tablizer · 2017-09-19 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  Those wizards exist. I agree they aren't common, but they do exist....should pay them whatever you need to keep them. Since replacing them will cost you more in the long run.
  You assume HR is logical. They may agree to say a 10% premium, but not 50% because that's outside of their normal practice and habits; and they are not familiar enough with IT enough to verify to their comfort level.
  Such a "star" would probably be better off working for a small contractor who gets paid by project results instead of hours. By using the star to complete more projects with fewer people, the contractor out-competes everyone, gets hefty profits, and pays the star really well.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
13. Re:Infrastructure is a dead end street by plopez · 2017-09-21 15:52 · Score: 1
  
  What was your control?
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Run Logan, Run! by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 11:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

TFA: "In terms of job opportunities, it's probably no surprise that Millennials have the edge. Those between 25-30 years old get the most job offers, reports Hired's 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries. After the age of 45, the average salary and number of job offers decline. After 50, most IT pros see a significant decline in salary in line with their experience."
Just like the NBA: churn and burn. It may be better to become a domain expert with IT knowledge rather than a "direct" IT expert. For example, accounting and chemistry don't change nearly as quick as direct IT. Thus, domain experience is more likely to be valued after age 45. I don't see bunches of accounting and chemistry fads equivalent to IT fads. There's no "Quarks are Obsolete! Learn NoQuarksNeeded 2.0 in 21 Days Head First Unleashed" books in the chemistry section. (Hmmm, maybe there's room for con artists in those industries.)
IT is closer to the clothing fashion industry than real topics. That's why they want younglings. I've seen several dozens of way to do plain old CRUD screens over the years. Do we really need 38 ways to do the same thing and throw out #1 thru #37 to get 38? Plus, they often grow more complicated over time, not less. De-evolution. "It's agile functional separation of scale-able and cloud-able concerns that provides nimble global synergy..." Yeah right, shuddup[1]. The cloud, for example, is often used as an excuse to do really stupid unproven shit in order to out-buzzword your conpetition[2]. Con artists rule over IT.
[1] and git off my lawn
[2] misspelling intentional

--
Table-ized A.I.
1. Re:Run Logan, Run! by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  Quarks have nothing to do with chemistry.
  True, but a good bullshit artist can convince a PHB they do.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
2. Re:Run Logan, Run! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-18 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  You wish! :-p
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
3. Re:Run Logan, Run! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-18 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  IT is closer to the clothing fashion industry than real topics.
  Relevant
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
4. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-18 13:42 · Score: 2
  
  I've seen several dozens of way to do plain old CRUD screens over the years. Do we really need 38 ways to do the same thing and throw out #1 thru #37 to get 38?
  Seems like the thing to do is to reach for bigger and more interesting problems and leave the CRUD screens to the newbies. If you've been around long enough to see so many variations, you have too much experience to be wasted on such things. At most you should be doing the code reviews.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
5. Re:Run Logan, Run! by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  I like the analysis part, especially the trickier screens or flows, but want to keep a foot in the code side. Although perhaps I should let go of that final connection. It's kind of like cutting the umbilical cord to youth: I'm hesitant to admit my coding days may be finally over.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
6. Re:Run Logan, Run! by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-09-18 18:26 · Score: 2
  
  If you've been around long enough, you need to take a little time to show the newbies how to do a CRUD screen instead of letting them reinvent the wheel and come up with Method #39 on their own. Proper coaching or even code reviews in IT seem to be rare. And perhaps it's related to the fact that experienced technical staff aren't valued.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
7. Re:Run Logan, Run! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-19 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  to the newbies
  That's a weird name for code libraries.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
8. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-19 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  I like the analysis part, especially the trickier screens or flows, but want to keep a foot in the code side. Although perhaps I should let go of that final connection. It's kind of like cutting the umbilical cord to youth: I'm hesitant to admit my coding days may be finally over.
  I don't mean stop coding, just stop coding the boring, repetitive stuff. Of course, that depends on what your employer builds, but changing employers is an option as well.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
9. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-19 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  If you've been around long enough, you need to take a little time to show the newbies how to do a CRUD screen instead of letting them reinvent the wheel and come up with Method #39 on their own. Proper coaching or even code reviews in IT seem to be rare.
  Depends where you are, obviously. Where I work, every new hire is assigned a mentor, and no code can be submitted without first being reviewed and signed off both by an "owner" of the relevant codebase and by someone who focuses on code readability. But, yeah, if you're a senior developer at some place that doesn't do those things, you should exercise some leadership and start those practices. Of course, that also requires learning to play the political game, but such is life.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
10. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-19 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  to the newbies
  That's a weird name for code libraries.
  Even with good libraries, and tooling, there's still some manual work to be done.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
11. Re:Run Logan, Run! by Tablizer · 2017-09-19 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  It's hard to tell any employer and team, "I only want to code the interesting parts." That goes over poorly. If one wants to code, they have to be willing to code boring stuff also. (I've proposed framework adjustments to simplify them, but such is often not accepted because some fear it may confuse newbies.)
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
12. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-19 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  Or move to a job where there are no boring parts.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
13. Re:Run Logan, Run! by Tablizer · 2017-09-19 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  You are joking, right?
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
14. Re:Run Logan, Run! by swillden · 2017-09-19 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  You are joking, right?
  Well slightly exaggerating, perhaps. But not much.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Re:Trends like...? by plopez · 2017-09-18 11:42 · Score: 1

All the EE jobs are going to India and CHina. They don't require "boots on the ground".

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putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Sysadmin vs IA/Security by nobuddy · 2017-09-18 11:45 · Score: 2

Sysadmin jobs are dying off fast, but system security or Information Assurance jobs are growing fast. Same skills, different focus.
1. Re:Sysadmin vs IA/Security by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-09-18 15:34 · Score: 1
  
  A SysAdmin used to be called a Computer Operator.
  I was a Computer Operator in the early 1980s. It involved putting up 1/2" tapes onto drives and loading jobs. I worked at a Service Bureau, which meant we did jobs that shipped in on tapes from all over the region.
  The Computer Operator job got a name upgrade to 'SysAdmin' about the time mainframes went into decline and the job became one of maintaining all the computers connected together. Same basic job though. Keeping jobs going and traffic routed.
2. Re:Sysadmin vs IA/Security by Tablizer · 2017-09-18 17:32 · Score: 1
  
  I thought devops was a waning fad already.
  Just change your title around; how about "cloud deployment coordinator" instead of sys admin. Same shit but with new polish. I got it: "Cloud Synergizer"! A title that's pure PHB sugar.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
3. Re:Sysadmin vs IA/Security by micahraleigh · 2017-09-19 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  There's an older guy around /. who says he is really old and there is a market at his age for Sysadmin.
  
  The positions for that line of work are so few it is hard for me to make out if that claim is true.
  
  Our SW firm's sysadmin is a very young girl. She doesn't even look like an adult !
Re:Hiring Chief Security Officers with music degre by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2017-09-18 11:49 · Score: 2

Definitely in a downtrend.
I would've used the term decrescendo.

--
#DeleteChrome
Re:Next hot hiring trend... by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 11:49 · Score: 1

I think I can make it to 'pepperpot'. Will that do?

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Trends like...? by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 11:51 · Score: 1

And yet you're in Miami. Very strange.
I hate of the perverts in SF, so I'm moving to Berlin. ;-)

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Trends like...? by plopez · 2017-09-18 11:58 · Score: 1

Scientists are portable as well. It's all the same science everywhere.

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putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Re:Next hot hiring trend... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-18 12:02 · Score: 1

On a vaguely related note, I've always wondered if Sophie Wilson's and Lynn Conway's accomplishments in almost the same field were just a coincidence...

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Trends like...? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-18 12:03 · Score: 1

I don't know, is California considered a solid state?

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Trends like...? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-09-18 12:04 · Score: 1

Both have beaches, how am I even supposed to tell them apart?

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Trends like...? by HornWumpus · 2017-09-18 12:07 · Score: 1

The 'libtards' in Miami have better tans.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Turn this around by Okian+Warrior · 2017-09-18 12:51 · Score: 1

Unless we're talking H1-Bs I don't see that in the slightest. What I do see is several of my buddies in dead end jobs (and a few acquaintances rocking recent CS degrees stuck in crap IT jobs) while workers here on cheap visas and outsourcing dominate the industry.
Okay, now turn that around.
How do you feel about DACA, total amnesty, and unrestricted immigration?
Lots and lots of people are screaming for DACA and giving citizenship to just about anyone who can evade the border guards and get here.
DACA and other immigration issues speak to the same problems you are complaining about. The argument is that the country cannot absorb the illegal immigrants(*), doing so would wreck the future outlook and way of life for US citizens.
So, based on your post, how do you feel about DACA and amnesty?
(*) Legal immigration is a separate issue. Related, but it can compensate for negative population growth, so it isn't actually a problem.
1. Re:Turn this around by p4nther2004 · 2017-09-18 13:48 · Score: 1
  
  Okay, now turn that around. How do you feel about DACA, total amnesty, and unrestricted immigration?
  
  No problems with DACA. Disagree on total amnesty and unrestricted immigration.
  
  Lots and lots of people are screaming for DACA and giving citizenship to just about anyone who can evade the border guards and get here.
  
  I see a lot of screaming about DACA. I do NOT see a lot of "giving citizenship to just about anyone who can evade the border guards and get here".....unless you want to turn it around and talk about Cuban wetfoot/dryfoot.
  So where do *YOU* stand on Cuban immigration. (Note: I live in Florida)
  Finally where do you stand on DACA -- particular as some of those affected by DACA are serving in our military (in particular MAVNI).
2. Re:Turn this around by lgw · 2017-09-19 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  Military service has always been a path to citizenship. That aside, come here legally or GTFO.
  Throw out everyone who's not here legally. Enforce border security as if it mattered. This will cause several sectors of the US economy to collapse. That in turn will force the useless government to actually fix immigration law.
  There's a rate of immigration that's good for the US. Fix the damn process to allow for that rate (or a reasonably close guess). Do we still need to import low-skill labor? Fine, no problem with that, make a legal path for it that's not unduly burdensome, but doesn't give government benefits up front. Holding any job for a few years and basic proficiency with English should be all that's needed for a green card.
  But our entirely useless politicians will never make the most obvious and needed fixes to the system until it's a crisis.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re:Trends like...? by ILoveFatCashews · 2017-09-18 13:22 · Score: 1

Or one of your monstrous yogurt sharts. Seriously, given how thin the walls are at The Grove, what bothers the neighbors first? The smell, or the straining sounds you make?
Do you want some spam-flavored macadamia nuts with your whine?
Just get your MCSE by richrz · 2017-09-18 13:31 · Score: 1

and make tons of $$$
1. Re:Just get your MCSE by Tony+Isaac · 2017-09-18 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I've seen those commercials too.
  And if I get a resume that prominently touts MCSE, that resume gets sent to File 13 immediately. It takes more than a certificate.
2. Re:Just get your MCSE by n3v · 2017-09-21 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  and make tons of $$$
  LOL LOL LOL
  Flamebait
Lying shits - Demand and supply are fine by FeelGood314 · 2017-09-18 14:10 · Score: 1

There are just cheap employers looking to under pay for a skill and to lazy to value it correctly. IT is hard and it really isn't that interesting to most executives. They see the accountants every day, they can see their value and more importantly evaluate their value. Sales is easy to evaluate. How many executives actually use the companies own products? That is almost the bare minimum to know what the engineers are doing and I bet less than 10% of execs do it.
Re: Hiring Chief Security Officers with music degr by rholtzjr · 2017-09-18 15:37 · Score: 1

But due to diversity it starts with a crescendo and will end with largo
Re:Hiring Chief Security Officers with music degre by AmiMoJo · 2017-09-19 00:02 · Score: 1

Idea for a jobs programme: Make the consequences of security failures severe and expensive.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Problems with the search for "top talent" by codeButcher · 2017-09-19 02:11 · Score: 3

1. The first obvious problem with companies looking for "top talent" is that they often are not able to recognize them when they see them (mainly because of caving in and hiring what comes along, due to project pressures, who then get to think they are "top talent" and hire others like them). I know because I've been employed by 2 or 3 of these.
2. A lot of interviews/tests focus on technical skills. But I find that people skills, time management skills (uhmmm, I'm on /. while I should work...) etc. make up a good proportion of the skills needed in the modern workplace. No use if you could code circles around the next guy if you can't negotiate with your client around what's feasible, or get along with your BOFH team lead to work around ambiguities.
3. So you want to hire rockstar programmers? Where's the groupies and drugs?
The more realistic view IMHO is that most companies do not absolutely need top talent for all their job functions. It's more realistic to develop (and retain) the talent inhouse. Talent is overrated. Talent can be learned up to a level that is sufficient for operational needs. But you need to keep your people for those 10000* hours and keep challenging them (* I mention the figure just as a nod to Gladwell's book, although I do not necessarily agree with the exact figure or some of his points.).

--
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
1. Re:Problems with the search for "top talent" by codeButcher · 2017-09-19 19:28 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. And I am proud for my contribution to make my employer's business less risky ;-)
  
  --
  Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
Re:Trends like...? by micahraleigh · 2017-09-19 05:29 · Score: 1

I thought Miami was full of tea party Cubans ...
Re:Trends like...? by HornWumpus · 2017-09-19 12:47 · Score: 1

Google image 'florida county voting map 2016'.
That blob of blue on the end of the wang, like gonorrhea discharge. That's Miami.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Trends like...? by HornWumpus · 2017-09-19 12:50 · Score: 1

110 F 100% humidity. Joy! Water condensing on the outside of the windshield above the AC vents at stoplights, in December.
Miami people are more like SF people than you want to admit. I'm not pro-SF, I'm anti-Miami.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Trends like...? by micahraleigh · 2017-09-20 05:21 · Score: 1

OK. Learned something