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Elon Musk Says Tesla Could Rebuild Puerto Rico's Power Grid With Batteries, Solar (electrek.co)
After Puerto Rico was hit by hurricane Maria, Tesla quickly started shipping hundreds of its Powerwall batteries there to try and get power back on to some houses with solar arrays. Now, Tesla CEO Elon Musk took to Twitter to say that Tesla could rebuild Puerto Rico's power grid with batteries and solar on a bigger scale. Electrek reports: Puerto Rico's electricity rates were already quite high at around $0.20 per kWh and reliant on fossil fuels. After it was pointed out that Puerto Rico's destroyed grid is an opportunity to build a better one, Musk wrote on Twitter: "The Tesla team has done this for many smaller islands around the world, but there is no scalability limit so it can be done for Puerto Rico too. Such a decision would be in the hands of the Puerto Rico government, PUC (Public Utilities Commission), any commercial stakeholders and, most importantly, the people of Puerto Rico."
Musk is referring to solar and battery projects that Tesla recently deployed on other islands, like Tesla's visually stunning Powerpack and solar project in Kauai. Those projects power grids for much smaller populations, but Musk has always said that it's scalable to support much larger islands, like Puerto Rico, and ultimately entire continents, which are just like big islands to a certain degree. The thing is that those systems are still reliant on power lines for larger communities and devices, like solar panels and wind turbines, that are still subject to problems with natural disasters. The advantage of Tesla's solution is that it has the potential to be distributed, which increases the odds of at least some systems staying online or bringing some back online quicker.
Musk is referring to solar and battery projects that Tesla recently deployed on other islands, like Tesla's visually stunning Powerpack and solar project in Kauai. Those projects power grids for much smaller populations, but Musk has always said that it's scalable to support much larger islands, like Puerto Rico, and ultimately entire continents, which are just like big islands to a certain degree. The thing is that those systems are still reliant on power lines for larger communities and devices, like solar panels and wind turbines, that are still subject to problems with natural disasters. The advantage of Tesla's solution is that it has the potential to be distributed, which increases the odds of at least some systems staying online or bringing some back online quicker.
In other news Elon Musk doesn't understand being poor.
Dafuq?
If it were that easy, don't you think Puerto Rico - or someplace else on the whole damn Earth - would have done it by now?
Once the Puerto Rican politicians finish with Musk, Tesla will be lucky to be able make tricycles.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
The story I heard on NPR the other day suggests that the limiting factor though is going to be money.
But with Twitler intent on bringing back coal jobs do you think it will happen?
You have a lot to do.
before the hurricane. why didn't he offer to help then?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Tesla's hype is truly fabulous, but the reality is less fabulous. There's not enough lithium on the planet to produce the batteries required to do this on a country sized scale:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/08/nation-sized-battery/
(the same goes for other technologies including lead batteries which are actually still the best chance as that's the most abundant resource).
As far as I know currently available lithium batteries still wear out after 1,000 cycles and slightly more for LiFePo4. There have been lots of breakthroughs but nothing for mass production. So if they go for this they'll have to buy a massive pile of new batteries every 5 years or so? Doesn't seem like a great solution
It will just take another hurricane and suddenly all those solar panels are gone.
Shouldn't he be busy building cars? ... asked the Tesla shareholder.
No, don't look to see what PR were using that isn't working at the moment. Please.
Oh, and to the moron whining about the expense, wrong again, asshole. It's cheap enough. The infrastructure is not going to be working anyway, so it will cost poor people to get ANY power at all back. So why not make it solar, if it's going to cost money anyway? If you want to claim it will cost more, how much more? How do you know? Where is your rollout plan for solar and what is the alternative plan without? Have you done the correct calculations or not? Because unless you do that, you're just making wild-ass claims based on ignorance.
However, it might be better to let people do it who did that before elsewhere. Including sub terrain cables, like in the EU, which do not fail when there is a hurricane.
Or are you just blowing hot air and proclaiming from your cherished ignorance?
What's preventing them from building a subterranean power grid? If we can put fiber optic cables on the floor of the ocean, we can put power lines underground and expose them above ground in certain areas. Leaving the critical lines protected and the "last-mile" lines above ground for easy work.
Never let a disaster go to waste. $$$$$$$
He won't unless someone writes him a check. Big fat unlimited check.
And PR has no money. and isn't a state. So elon musk won't be doing one dammed thing for puerto rico.
Anything you put on that island is just something that's going to get knocked over, drowned, or washed out to sea. We should be buying out anyone without the wherewithal to rebuild for themselves. This is the new normal. How many powerwalls have to become subaquatic before we get the message?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Musk is not helping matters given he only wants aid to provide a stream of money to a otherwise failure to sell these power systems. The electric company in PR was massively in debt before the storm, the people don't have money to rebuild let alone buy one of Musk's power systems, or install solar panels.
Clearly Musk is trying to take the opportunity to get government to pay for his systems through some sort of emergency response deal.
What the island needs is wind farms. The trade winds are quite strong and blow almost constantly. They would also take up far less land than solar farms.
Solar panels seem especially vulnerable but everything would have to be robust and capable of being secured or removed to minimize damage until a hurricane passes.
It's a good thing he tested on smaller islands first. Now we know the weight of the batteries won't cause Puerto Rico to tip over like Guam.
Since the Government has a line of bond holders with big IOUs , only private folks with property/ collateral or cash can afford but they might need to provide for themselves since the Government might not be able anytime soon. While poor people will have to wait while the folks with capital find a way to eventually trickle down.
Why not a satellite that collects solar and beams down microwaves?
Anyone can have anything they want, provided they are willing and able to pay for it.
This egotistical hack wanting more tax payer money to pad his pockets. I thought Bono had the world's biggest ego, Musk you're vying for that spot though!
I think PR and all Caribbean Islands prone to hurricane strikes need to rethink infrastructure, from burying electrical lines in conduits to requiring all habitable structures to be made of reinforced concrete. And, while I think one of solar power's greatest potential is for providing electricity to more remote areas of the world -- such as islands -- I have to wonder how well rooftop solar panels or large solar farms would stand up to category 4 and 5 hurricanes.
I believe the solution Musk is proposing would also include large lithium-ion batteries, which when damaged can short and ignite the highly reactive lithium. Another possibility is that the battery can heat to the point of thermal runaway, where the contents exert pressure on the battery, potentially producing an explosion.
So, it's a grand gesture by Musk, but not one without its own set of potential issues.
Let's wait until he's finished his South Australian battery before we give him a new job; he may not even meet his 100 day goal with that.
He's made wild claims before, and the Tesla Model 3 production rate forecast didn't go too well now, did it?
>> Musk: (wild idea to problem X)
Could you please just ship the Model 3 to everyone who wants one?
(http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/technology/tesla-model-3-production/index.html)
Telsa is going to be the next Nintendo at this rate.
"Let them eat cake"
- Elon Musk
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The source of the energy is only part of the problem. If you rebuild the same distribution system, you're going to end up with the same problem. The power lines need to be buried and that costs a lot more money than stringing wire on poles.
The wires between houses need to be constructed in either scenario.
One of the benefits of on-prem solar is that the generation is distributed. So no, the two scenarios are not equivalent in terms of distribution (wires).
The period after a tragedy is no time to talk about solutions. Thoughts and prayers only, please.
Stop riding his cock.
He should deliver on 1 of his promises before making more.
Get yourself a couple of American Red Cross hand-crank flashlight/smart phone charger in case of emergencies.
could be done sure. Could put solar all over the place. But until he puts his money where his mouth is and actually does it, it's just so much hot air like another hurricane blowing through.
BMW Series 5 sales:
If Elon Musk hadn't snubbed Trump earlier on his business advisory councils, he'd have been more able to gain his ear and shake his tiny hand with a gaudy deal that would distract the press from the shame of tossing paper towels for hurricane relief.
Shiny new infrastructure is what they need at this point. The old stuff is trashed!
A distributed system is ideal for an island, especially when hurricanes can blow everything to bits so often. In this case, two storms wiped out the whole grid.
Now the island has the chance to put power distribution lines for the island's grid underground since they are likely to get big hurricanes more often now, due to climate change.
With a bit of engineering foresight, the solar arrays could be designed with a "hunker-down" mode to better survive the high winds, especially for critical facilities. Solar installations can be designed to withstand 150+ mph winds with minimal damage if need be.
The cost of solar is comparable to the fossil fuel based systems, and critical facilities like hospitals and airports could be up and running again very quickly (using backup panels stored in a safe place) even if the rest of the grid was knocked out.
PlaynBass
You're assuming that the corporate-controlled Congress even cares about those people. What they want is their money. The fossil fuel companies that have a stranglehold on our economy don't want any forward-looking technology until they've finished gouging all USA for every penny they can get out of the old stuff.
PlaynBass
If Trump pays of Puerto Ricans to not come to the US (mainland), next he'll start paying Hondurans and Guatemalan to stay in their shithole countries.
Then he'll start sending advisors to help restore order and rebuild those places since it's US polices that made them gang-infested shitholes in the first place.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAH HA
yeah, no.
Man has product to sell, says his item is the one.
Even if Puerto Rico could afford such tech ( which it can't ), who is going to pay for those battery updates / replacements / maintenance going forward ?
I would also be curious to know how well those solar panels do in a Category X hurricane. We don't see a lot of installs here because the area is also a hurricane zone. Hell, most things become projectiles when introduced to a 130mph wind.
Doesn't make a lot of sense to install $$$ panels that will potentially become $$$ projectiles next hurricane season.
Let's face it, Tesla isn't breaking any production records here. So, your Model 3 may be a long time coming.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/0...
We're talking price/value here. By your definition something is overpriced if it isn't sold at break-even production costs or lower.
He should not just be talking about it. He should be doing it now... Today.
So it sounds awesome, but what happens when it gets *super windy* there again. I mean it's not just 'we got these solar panels and a ton of bats... we good' now.
This would be an *excellent* moonshot.
Same as going to the moon is a great thing--but the *real* benefit is all we learned about organization, science, and technology (and sociology) along the way.
Go ahead.
I'm not a power guy, but I am an engineer (PLCs mostly).
I work for a small engineering firm and have for 20+ years. We've got talented folks that can help.
Where should I have my boss send the resumes?
So. Show me some shit.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
I can't understand those numbers without a car analogy.
How does compare in Library of Congresses?
5 series is a mid-size luxury, while model S is a full-size luxury. Direct competitor is 7 series.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Burying power mains is ungodly expensive compared to above ground, and it takes much longer to install - how much longer should Puerto Ricans wait to get electricity and how much more will they be willing to pay for that electricity?
Ken
> Man has product to sell, says his item is the one.
Shades of MONORAIL [a.k.a. TROUBLE IN RIVER CITY]
Friend... either you're closing your eyes to a situation you do not wish to acknowledge or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated the suggestion of 'solar 'n storage'! Well, ya got trouble, my friend! Right here in Puerto Rico! Why sure I'm a solar fan, certainly mighty proud I say.... I'm always mighty proud to say... I consider that the hours I spend cultivatin' the little solar patch on my roof golden.
Helps you cultivate self-sufficiency it does, and a keen eye for conservation. It takes judgment, brains, and gumption money to score in the personal energy game, but any boob kin shove a tiny bit 'o power onto the grid when the conditions are right. But the power companies call that sloth. They call it 'negative load'. The first big step on the road to the depths of deg-ra-Day-- I say! First, subsynchronous resonance from a passing cloud, then a phase whammy, then stressin' Northbound South and Eastbound West, slap-a-doodle backflash jigglety pop. An' the next thing ya know, your local energy co-op is doing a no-op and the money's flowing backwards too, some big out-a-town Jasper is undercuttin' the power plant that serves your bread an' butter, but only when it suits 'im. He's gonna suck yer plants dry puttin' folks out 'o work, then swallow you whole!
'Cause energy's not a trottin' race, see? Not this great industrial country! Ne'er has been! Where a little from here and a bit from there lights up everywhere, you take care! It ain't a race when they call the shots and some stuck-up slickers get in your knickers 'an plant Enron stickers on your electric bills to make your blood boil? Well that's night soil, I should say!
Now, friends, lemme tell you what I mean. Ya may have one, two, three, four, five, six plants in your state. Gigawatt plants that mark the difference between a gentlemen and a bum, 'cause they bring jobs with a capital 'J' from bonds with a 'B' that rhymes with 'P' that stands for PAY! And pay they will unless they're fritter'n away their time spinnin' at idle 'cuz solar is waxing at noontime, waning at suppertime, dropping out in the rain and ice storms too! Wind is worse! The grid is cursed! Between time, disaster time, who's left holding the ball? That my friend is YOU 'cuz your power plants are sufferin' as subsidies are flowin' and solar fat cats are strummin' the grid like a money makin' banjo in its time of need. And the microgrid folks demandin' retail from power companies that could get it wholesale... what greed!
Now you can't fault the Sun, folks, for not shinin' at night, growin' dandelions in Winter. But it can't cook your electric dinner or pump yer city water or treat yer waste with haste! Show me a man who flushes into the City, thinks he's sittin' pretty with his solar lights ain't hardly bright enough to read by! How did we come by, forgive me, such fools? They're tools! Wearin' fancy duds may as well been knit from coal, countless other things massive energy brings. And that's trouble, Oh, yes we got lots and lots a' trouble. I'm thinkin' of the kids in the schools warm through the Winter, big buildings here and there, night lights everywhere, 'cause we've got energy to spare and haven't a care! But now Puerto Rico's laid bare!
Wires and poles on the ground all around! Not a pretty sight, you should cross yourself 'an hope it will never happen to you, but what to do? Gotta put 'em up agin, no doubt about it. But here comes trouble, folks, trouble's come to Puerto Rico. Trouble with a capital "T" And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for Powerwall!
Now I know all you folks like the scent of Musk, but I'm gonna be perfectly frank, his ideas stink. He may have the future in a bottle but that future looks like snake oil. Would ya like to know what kinda co
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
Is there a chance the battery could bend?
Good point. However, using a distributed power system, and concentrating on putting the largest installations near the critical systems (Hospitals, etc) would limit the number and length of underground mains. Neighborhoods could be largely self-sufficient, requiring fewer above-ground transmission lines overall, which could be designed for the 150+ mph winds.
PlaynBass