Slashdot Mirror
Facebook Exec: 'Just Not True' That We Listen To Your Phone's Mic (theoutline.com)
Adrianne Jeffries, writing for The Outline: Facebook executive stepped outside of official channels of communication last night by tweeting about a negative rumor that seems to keep resurfacing no matter how many times the company denies it. "I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true," tweeted Rob Goldman, vice president of ads products at Facebook. That includes Facebook-owned Instagram, he said. Goldman was responding to a tweet from PJ Vogt, one of the co-hosts of the tech podcast Reply All, which is producing a segment about the persistent belief that Facebook spies on users through the microphone. Vogt had asked people to call in to share their stories of why they think Facebook may be using the microphone to collect information for advertisers.
What DO you use the mic to listen in for then if not ads?
The users are the product, willingly sharing info. Facebook already uses them for the info they provide.
Just not true.
So it is, then.
He added "But thats a real good idea! Thanks!"
We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads, YET...
Any communications app could do this because they all have permission to access the mic and the network. This is not new, and you basically have to trust whatever you install.
If people could confine themselves to crying wolf when there is evidence of a wolf, that would be great. Because we already gloss over too many real vulnerabilities and poor practices in favor of sensationalism and nonsense.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Maybe it is just me, but the denial seems overly specific. Maybe the mic is used to maintain a profile for each user. Oh, and the profile is used to target ads. Talking out loud about tin-foil hats now to see if I get any ads for a discount.
How do they know to target me with anti-snoring advertisements?
Vogt had asked people to call in to share their stories of why they think Facebook may be using the microphone to collect information for advertisers.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Which phone apps spy on you? All of them.
" ... now your Camera ... no comment. But we do not use information from your microphone"
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Watch the carefully worded denial, no doubt approved by company's lawyers.
"We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true.". Ok, so they did not use microphone *for ads*. What did they use it for?
(Here are some ideas that are not contrary to this denial: listening in for research purposes, compiling data on behalf of a government)
I think it originated in the Soviet Union:
"Nothing is verified until it is officially denied."
So.....
http://osxdaily.com/2013/11/26...
Just not true.
So it is, then.
Quick question: Does Facebook make up its own ads to serve to people, or does it use an ad-delivery service where another company aggregates the ads for them?
What I'm asking is: does Facebook somehow curate the javascript and other gunk that is served as advertizing, or does the ad service, or do the advertizers themselves somehow curate those programs?
All the web sites that pop up a message saying "we notice that you are using an ad blocker - please stop" makes me mentally reply "I notice you let anyone serve me malware via ads, no way!".
Is it the same for Facebook? Do they let advertizers run just 'any old javascript on my computer?
(And as a corollary to that: can malicious javascript listen to my mike?)
I didn't think Facebook used the microphone for anything before i read that comment - they literally created doubt where there was none!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They never started denying it until we started accusing them. But all joking aside, has anyone de-compiled the app to see what's under the hood?
An absolute crock of steaming piled high bullshit! I've personally had their damn apps spy on me.
Caution: Contents under pressure
People who give an advertising app like Facebook permission to record audio from their microphone *deserve* to be listened-in on. Services like this should only be accessed in a sandboxed, open-source web browser that gives you full control of what information they have access to.
:) I only mentioned it in gmail, in "private" facebook message to my friend, on a random site that used fb auth.. it has got to be the microphone!
Most of the apps that I see on Google's store require access to everything.
Why? Why does a timer need locations access?
Or access to my contacts? Or camera?
Google's apps are the worst.
And Samsung put facebook on my J1 Ace. I can't get the fucker off. And the fucker starts itself up when I disable it. WTF?!?
So, since facebook's app acts that way, I don't believe a word that asshole says.
There are so many easier and more efficient ways of stealing everyone's personal information en masse. Why would they bother resorting to surreptitiously activating your phone's microphone?
Do you use GPS location for ads?
Do you use cell phone tower broadcast information for ads?
Do you use people's contacts
Do you base facial recognition based on photos that people on contact list posted without permissions?
Do you own Whatsapp or whatever it's called to get phone numbers from people?
Does Whatsapp get voice data from people who use the amp? Well it's not "facebook" technically
Do you do get user data based on instagram posts?
Do you work with other companies and purchase personal data based on existing data that you already own on users, email addresses to get birthdates, addresses, phone numbers, occupations info from airline rewards, utility companies, credit card companies, banks, credit bureau companies?
How closely do you work with the government, domestically and foreign? What about users that aren't part of your government's jurisdiction?
"Never have" is nice, but would you put it in writing that you never will?
I am not a sig.
It's Google or Apple listening to your phone's mic. Facebook just buys the data your phone's OS provider is already harvesting.
Loading...
If you want me to believe you DON'T listen through my Mic when just having your crap installed runs my battery down 40% faster - even when I'm not using it - you're on the wrong track.
IF you want me to believe you DON'T listen through my Mic but you just about break your neck trying to force me to install your chat app after I remove it by making it so that mobile browsers can't access chat anymore, you're on the wrong track.
IF you want me to believe you aren't spying on me in general and you feel the need to try to force me to install your normal app by making streaming video unavailable if I use a mobile browser you aren't convincing me.
I had their crap years ago. One of the first things I did after rooting my HTC One M8 was remove the crap that was put on their by HTC and/or AT&T.
Now that I have a Pixel it didn't come with a Facebook app, and I haven't installed it on this phone - ever. I do have other social network stuff installed, like Minds, Google +, and a couple of others. I'm pretty sure Google spys as bad as Facebook did, only it does that with Google + installed or not, and I'm pretty sure it has less battery impact.
I bought my wife one of those $50 Amazon tablets mostly because she wanted something like that just for Facebook and chat, the battery life was so pathetic she didn't ever start using it regularly. Now that the Facebook crap has been removed our son uses it for hours on end on road trips watching his kids shows. It's scary how long that battery lasts without Facebook software on it.
No Facebook - if you want to convince me you're not just there to spy on me you'll stop working with manufacturers to put your shitty software on phones in a manner that it can't be removed unless you're geeky enough to use the Android Developer kit and do some ROM flashing to get rid of it. I'm suspicious of ANYTHING that presents itself as mandatory. You'll also make your crap to where it doesn't run unless I start it. You literally make hardware akin to useless. I laugh at the people I see running around having to charge their phones all the time because they shit they have running on it constantly runs their batteries down. I don't carry a power bank and I laugh at people who do. Bullshit apps like Facebooks are what kills battery life, for the most part modern phones running a stable OS build without extra bullshit have incredible battery life.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Does the bandwidth look big enough for audio?
Is there less bandwidth used when there is no mic?
Does bandwidth spike when you plug in a mic?
If you want to know if it's the truth
Then, my friend, you are going to need proof
Come up with a test
Yeah, you need a test
-- They might Be Giants -- Put it to the test
The decision to keep the featurewall features out of the core OS was made in full conscious awareness of the moral inappropriateness of doing so.
It was clear to everyone attempting to make a phone OS that their OS would get squashed if it didn't prioritize app-developer desires over end-user desires. And, that is still true today, precisely because there aren't enough end-users who are serious enough about protecting their privacy to actually change the balance.
The majority of end-users just put up with it. So long as that is true, the rest of us will have to put up with it as well (or opt-out completely, as I have done. I use a dumbphone. It works great.)
I have literally said "my Father-in-law drives a mercedes" and then found a mercedes advert on my FB feed the next refresh. NOTHING else like you described. Turned off their app access to microphone and that crap disappeared.
Caution: Contents under pressure
People spew their life's intimate and sordid details onto Facebook all the time... but they get up in arms that Facebook might be using the microphone to record them?
This is almost as bizarre as those people who demand the government take away constitutional rights due of terror attacks which kill at most a few dozen people a year, yet don't bat an eye at the ~ 9,000 annually who die due to drunken driving.
#DeleteChrome
"I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true,"
Translated into English: "You think we actually have to listen in to know how often you creep your ex's page and spank the monkey?
"You make it so very easy for us to spy on you, and we already have so many ways to do so, we don't have to bother with your effing microphone. "
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Can't tell if it's Google, Microsoft, or FB anymore...
A little while ago, I had a cough for about 4 days. Despite never searching for/purchasing cough syrup or communicating to anyone explicitly that I had a cough during that period, by the third day, I started receiving ads for cough syrup. Only way I can think of that information being available is if my phone had been listening to me during my drive to/from work.
I texted a friend about my truck. Didn't even say I want a new one. I used the stock text messaging app.
And god damn it, if Facebook didn't all of a sudden start dropping Ford F-150 ads on me.
I was pretty pissed off to be frank.
The quote pre-dates the Soviet Union by several decades: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/07/believe/
...but that doesn't mean others don't take advantage of it. We've already found out about companies purposely leaving back doors in apps for NSA and others, so it only makes sense they willfully ignore the abuse governments do with their applications. Now they can say, "yeah, WE don't use your mic...".
I don't believe that facebook is listening takes his assertion from fact to opinion.
And to think, I was just having a conversation with my buddy about how I thought Facebook was listening to me via my phone's microphone when it seemingly answered back, "No, we're not!"
Post the source code.
Good-bye
My wife and I have had conversations about things we never type into a keyboard and then get Amazon ads for those very things the next day in our email. And no, we do NOT own any Amazon surveillance devices like the Echo. We have mostly Apple products, and turn off Siri the second we get them because, to quote a friend, "Go away Siri, no one likes you!"
>"We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads"
Yeah. We just feed it into out AI (Codename "Suckernet"), which then plays out the ads to you...
Lets all be honest. If the ZUCK has tape on his camera and microphone why shouldn't we? He knows something we don't? C'mon folks.
Which means HE KNOWS his shit's being used to do that, you fucking imbecile.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Simple solution, Facebook: open your source code and prove it.
this is 100% true. Facebook, if you give it access to your microphone, listens for words to display ads on their platform. I have seen this multiple times on my phone and my girlfriends. We would be watching TV and some ad would come on about whatever, and boom, the ad was in our Facebook feed seconds later. Fuck Facebook. I installed the app for that reason alone. Also makes you wonder why Google Chrome, and other apps like it need access to your microphone? For ads duh.
2-3 years ago I was having a conversation with my wife about some home upgrades over dinner, this was the very first time we spoke about it and neither one of us were doing research online before hand. That night I loaded up facebook and saw ads for home supply warehouses.
We are talking about an app spying on you for marketing purposes because it is installed on the operating system that the biggest advertising giant on the planet developed and "gave away"?
Everything on android is harvesting data. In scary huge amounts. I imagine Apple does the same and just shares it less. It's exclusive, right?
When I'm forced to carry a smartphone, I get what apps I need from f-droid. I't may be a false sense of security, but I do prefer seeing "This app requires no special permissions" over "This app must access everything"
The only social media I use on a smartphone is google-centric stuff. The way I see it, it's their OS, they are collecting anyway, I might as well get something out of it, and so many are using gmail that even if I don't use it, they are reading my messages by proxy regardless.
Worried about fb collecting on a smartphone? Can you see the forest through the trees?
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
Lol! The rumors persist because every time I have a conversation with my wife about a topic. An ad related to that topic shows up on her wall. This happens with minutes! It happens too many times to be coincidence.
Why lie about it? Facebook created Skynet! Just let me know when Judgement Day comes so I can party like its the end of the world.
Earlier today my colleague and I were talking about kung fu movies at work, just talk, no googling, and a few minutes later I got an ad for kung fu training from facebook. That is the first kung fu ad I have seen ever. After that we have been talking about buying an Audi car, and are awaiting the ads, just to be sure that they are listening in... But of course that must have been a coincidence, since I'm using Linux, and I know when the microphone on my computer is turned on. I do, however, have an Android phone which I have given all permissions, so if google and facebook cooperate, that could explain this very strange coincidence.
Had similar - was out with friends and I asked them if they could recommend a mortgage comparison website. Friend pulls phone out, his Facebook was advertising the one that my friend had recommended, and it wasn't moments ago.
Just so's y'all know.
my wife and i are done having kids.
Unless both of you are way above 70 years old and you not only had a vasectomy, but even got your balls removed,
I wouldn't trust 100% this.
Talking with my friends about their upcoming baby and boom next thing i know im getting pampers ads and investing in my childs education ads againsl all of sudden.
Given precedent at Target, It would be now a good idea to make a pregnancy test.
At that this at Target is rather old story. At a time where statistics was the best you could do. Since then we've moved past machine learning and into the real or deep neural nets. You can only guess what Facebook is able to infere and deduce about you..
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
For use in real firewalls
31.13.24.0/21
31.13.64.0/18
66.220.144.0/20
69.63.176.0/20
69.171.224.0/19
74.119.76.0/22
103.4.96.0/22
173.252.64.0/18
204.15.20.0/22
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Actually, the real explanation behind this anecdote might be even worse, reaching Orwellian proportions, where the government of Big Brother was even able to know the intimates dreams and nightmares of this citizens.
Constantly listening wouldn't be very efficient :
You'd need a phone that never goes into deep-sleep power saving, constantly processing sound, and probably constantly streaming the audio to the motherbase for analysis. I.e.: you'd be constantly consumer 24/7 the same level of resources as during a phone call.
That's going to be very taxing on the battery life of the smartphone.
Instead it's much more probable that Facebook only collect occasional small cue (phone use, location, who else is on the same network but also pages browsed in any browser - due to their "Like button" javacsript code - etc. tons of small details about you). By collecting all these details, Facebook is able to actually predict (a bit) what you're thinking. Facebook had so much data about your friend that they more or less managed to predict he was going to be interested into meat grinders (or general meat-related products, and grinders happened to be what they had avilable as ads at the moment).
Remember that anecdote about target accidentally predicting a teen pregnancy ? And that was at a time when statistics where the dominant form of analysis.
Nowadays Facebook and co have moved to deep neural nets and similar. They could make sense and see pattern out of tons of seemingly garbage data.
Suddenly interests for meat grinder could have become predictible (At least in this case).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Have gnu, will travel.
And how many Ford ads do you get? You need to show a consistent pattern. One-off hits don't mean anything. Human brains are pattern matching machines. We see patterns everywhere even if they don't exist.
So... I have a theory...
I dont think hes lying... I suspect they are actually using the accelerometers..
look in your privacy settings in IOS, there's no restriction on using them..
hypothetical here:
IF: accelerometers have very good precision AND if you can sample them fast enough, then you could technically
pick up vibrations on the table (or the iphone itself) thats induced from speech.
human speech ranges from about 85hz to about 300hz.
one use of the Nyquist Theorem states that in order to digitize 300hz, you'd have to sample at 600hz
i've seen sample rates in 'seismograph' apps pushing up towards 200hz. so its not too far off. (not to say they cant sample higher or lower) i honestly dont know
so thats part of it... next thing you need is a range of bits to transmit levels between high and low for the waveforms
telephones sample at 8kHz with 8 bits of precision.
iphone 6 accelerometers are typically model: BMA280, have 14bits of precision which puts it into having enough sensitivity to get into the realm of possible.
the audio wont be quality, and might not be intelligble to a person, but if you pair it with machine learning and speech recognition software, it may be able to
make up for the encoding losses...
(you'd loose the hissing sounds of S's, etc) it would sound like you're underwater in a metal can hearing sound thru water, but with NLP (natural language processing) you might be able to make sense of it..
and then theres the battery life...
the battery drains fast for the facebook app for pretty much everyone.
while some of that is likely news feed content preloading, its also plausible that they could be spending power excessively sampling the accelerometers.
Of course Zuck ("they trust me, dumb fucks") the fuck won't allow that.
Anyone who actively uses Facebook is retarded and deserves what they get.
We unequivocally do not listen in to your conversations for the purposes of advertising! Such actions are beyond the pale.
We do collect your location at all times though, and we do use that for advertising.
We do monitor your daily activities, including places you go to and what you're doing there, so we can advertise.
We do watch as many websites as we conceivably can to collect data on your browsing, and yeah we use that for advertising.
We do monitor all the things you post to Facebook and that gets used for advertising, naturally.
We read the contents of your private messages so we can focus advertising too, of course!
We do check to see how many of your friends are reading your stuff and then use that to advertise to them too.
We do also take all this data and sell it on to whoever writes us the biggest cheque. I feel that goes without saying really.
But listen to your voice? The very idea! Any evidence to the contrary remains purely anecdotal.
Gee... I wonder why these rumours persist...
I was speaking with a co-worker about a VERY specific part for a client, I sit down at my desk, and load up facebook, and guess what part showed up on the FIRST AD IN MY NEWSFEED. This is not some random chance, they had to have heard me speaking of this part, I did no searches for it, I did no page visits, I was simply speaking to a coworker about the part, and poof, there it is. They're lying, they ARE listening.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
I suppose this guyâ(TM)s works for the Facebook team and I would guess he would decline to comment if he worked on the messenger team. Check for yourself go into messenger start talking about random products and I think you will be surprised at the ads which pop up.
Cortana, Google Voice, Siri, and Alexa are always listening they very well could be selling what you say to whoever can process it. Hell they keyword it for the ad buyers and we are none the wiser.
I have literally said "my Father-in-law drives a mercedes" and then found a mercedes advert on my FB feed the next refresh. NOTHING else like you described. Turned off their app access to microphone and that crap disappeared.
Recovery from mental illness is both possible, and likely. Just don't give up hope.
It doesn't matter what any response says. FB has proven themselves untrustworthy (Think also Whatsapp scumbag data slurping). Windows 10 data theft along with other spying Microsoft products.
Customers are mere items to steal data from, give you no choices and re-enforce the label user-hostile. Modern day companies are scum, simple as that.
Can you? I don't think you can cuz you are not skilled enough to have it done only or unless you are a skilled personnel trained to have it done, I was in need of a way to solve the above question until I saw an endorsed post about Bianca, I almost ignore this post but my intuitive reaction won't let me.
Well the post later worked for me, so I decided to endorse her too on my own way, by advising you to talk to
Enriquehackdemon11@gmail.com
Or text
+1(628)203-7005
Since I'm doing this as a method of endorsement, please tell Bianca I recommend