Slashdot Mirror


Many US States Consider Abandoning Daylight Savings Time (newsweek.com)

An anonymous reader writes: A special Massachusetts commission recommends the state stop observing Daylight Savings TIme "if a majority of other northeast states, also possibly including New York, also do so." After a 9-to-1 vote, the head of the commission reported their conclusion after months of study: "There's no good reason why we're changing these clocks twice a year"... According to local reports, "The commission studied the pros and cons of the move and found, for example, retailers liked the idea of more daylight late in the day for shoppers... They also said there would be less crime, fewer traffic accidents and we would actually save energy."

A Maine state representative argues that it's actually harmful to observe Daylight Savings Time. "Some of those harms include an increased risk of stroke, more heart attacks, miscarriages for in vitro fertilization patients, among many other undesirable complications," reports Newsweek. Maine's legislature has already passed a bill approving an end to daylight savings time -- if Massachusetts and New Hampshire also end the practice, and if voters approve the change in a referendum.

At least six states are considering changing the time zones, according to Newsweek, and when it comes to Daylight Savings Time, the Maine representative told a reporter she had just one question.

"Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?"

366 comments

  1. You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... and these states consider this TWICE a year, EVERY year!

    1. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And not just these states but many countries as well like the UK

    2. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Dear, but why? You would have been just as happy without DST.

    3. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a big deal, and changing your schedule by an hour, twice a year, does not cause strokes or miscarriages or anything else bad.

      Oh good, another dumbass who ignores the studies that have shown that there is a correlation between the change in schedule and increases in heart attacks, strokes and miscarriages.

      Stress, motherfucker. It's bad for your health and, when someone's health is already marginal, the stress of fucking up their sleep schedule can and does push them over the edge.

    4. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Officially, what is actually being proposed is that Massachusetts would switch from the Eastern Time Zone to the Atlantic Time Zone, which would have the effect of being on DST all the time.

      Year-round DST has already tried many times, in different areas, over the last 30+ years. Unfortunately, this accomplishes nothing and solves no problem. Due to the irregular nature of the earth's orbit, year-round DST simply means that the sun comes up later in the winter, which leads to one of the biggest complaints -- children having to go to school in the dark during the winter, which leads to various safety concerns.

      Of course, you could just have school start later, but now you're right back to the same thing that everyone complains about regarding DST -- changing the time you do things.

    5. Re:You left off by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      The cells in your body don't know what time it is.

      I'm just going to be blunt here: You're an idiot. There's this thing called the circadian rhythm, and yes, bothering your circadian rhythm does real harm to your body.

      http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/...

      I've lived in Arizona most of my life, and personally, I fucking hate dealing with daylight savings any time I am somewhere else during those switch periods.

    6. Re:You left off by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You sound like one of those "It doesn't happen to me" guys, which is great. You don't get a fucked up sleep schedule for several weeks? Wonderful. You don't get hungry an hour earlier/later than the clock says you ought to? Good for you. Obviously then no one does.

      You didn't get in a car accident today? No one else did. Your house didn't burn down? No houses at all burned down. You didn't die? Worldwide immortality achieved!

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    7. Re:You left off by cjameshuff · · Score: 1

      There's a reason they posted as Anonymous Coward...

    8. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That rhythm is determined by photo sensitive cells in your body, not by the clock on the wall! I don't doubt it that a massive 1hr leap where we all try and move our sleep and work schedules to a time with differing light levels does not help things. But let's not BS about circadian rhythm of that mattered much we make 2min daily adjustments.

    9. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Try living North. It gets DARK at 3:30pm here without the time change. That hour of light during the working man's day means a great deal southey.

    10. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. They dont have an empty ego in need of validation from others with the same problem. Nameposters are mentals.

    11. Re:You left off by omnichad · · Score: 2

      This is much better, but yeah - there are still problems. Daylight at the end of the day is much more valuable to me all year round. I would never want to drop DST all year, but if we need daylight in the morning in winter for a good reason, I guess DST just had to stay.

    12. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know you can get up earlier, right?

    13. Re:You left off by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the UK reports show that keeping GMT+1 all year round would reduce accidents, reduce burglaries, save on fuel, and be good for health. The counter argument is that some Scottish farmers on the western isles wouldn't see the sun come up while they milked their cows. (They are too stupid to think of getting up at an earlier time on the clock) Every year the farmers win.

    14. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Provinces in Canada are also considering it.

      BC (West Coast) is considering it, but basically it doesn't make sense unless WA, OR and CA do as well, since so much of our businesses operate in the same time zone. Likewise most eastern-time zone states would be better off getting rid of DST as well.

      The midwest (mountain time) and central areas are less likely to care about DST because the center of the US and Canada isn't time dependent except for Chicago (which the rail system created the time zones in the first place.)

    15. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why would the cows care about what number a pointer on a clockface is pointing to? If they want to be milked an hour after dawn, the farmer milks them an hour after dawn.

    16. Re:You left off by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Absolutely! That was the point

    17. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's literally what DST does.

    18. Re: You left off by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      [Yorkshire accent] Luxury!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    19. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really need to declare yourself a victim of daylight savings time? Really?

    20. Re:You left off by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      It has significant physiological effects. We aren't computers that you can just reset the clock. It takes several days to get used to the time change, during which there are a higher risk of accidents. It may have been a good idea when the electric light bulb was still a rarity, but it ceased being a good idea decades ago.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    21. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personal preferences. I'd rather see sunrise at 8:30 than 9:30. A 9:30 sunrise in December is what would happen where I live if we stayed on DST year-round.

    22. Re:You left off by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      It's not a big deal, and changing your schedule by an hour, twice a year, does not cause strokes or miscarriages or anything else bad.

      I've lived through a lot of DST changes and have never given it a second thought. You change your clock and go on with your life.

      It might not be a big deal but people are saying it's pointless and does more harm than good. Why continue to do something year after year if there is no benefit?

      People change their schedules and daily routine more than that, regardless of the existence of DST. Last week I was watching a movie and went to bed an hour later than usual. The week before that I had to get up an hour earlier than ususal to drive to a different office for a meeting. These things happen a lot more frequently than the DST change, and people are fine with them.

      This is not an argument for DST. This is an argument against DST. Many businesses where I live already have "summer hours" and "winter hours". People already wake up at different times of the day depending on the time of the year. Why screw with the clock all the time? The only argument I've heard that makes a little sense is they don't want kids getting on the bus in the dark but many kids already do this with or without DST and again, it would be simple for schools to decide to shift the school schedule by an hour or more if it was a big concern. My town already has grade schools that run from 730-230 and high schools that run from 9-4 so they can double up on buses. They are more concerned with saving money on buses than they are about young kids getting on the bus in the dark or being home alone after school without their older siblings.

    23. Re:You left off by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm old.

      Hey, so am I! And you know what, being old means you tend to be miserable a lot of the time. It's a package deal: on one hand life afflicts you with suffering. On the other hand, you get to live.

      Being able to take it doesn't make you special; everyone who survives long enough learns to live with whatever it is aging has in store for them, whether it is arthritis, digestive problems, or for a majority of us, disturbed sleep patterns. That doesn't make disrupted sleep normal for younger people, or mean it should be compulsory for everyone.

      Now the smart thing to do as you get older is to optimize the time you have left. And that means paying attention to the best evidence we have. You say that your cells don't know what time of day it is? Wrong. Even single-celled eukaryotic organisms have circadian rhythms. So as you get older if you want to minimize your misery you have to get serious about sleep discipline. No late night screen sessions without blue-filtered glasses, regular bedtimes, don't eat or drink to much late at night. Basically all the stupid shit you did when you were a kid because you could get by on six hours of not very good sleep.

      As long as we're talking anecdotes, when I got serious about sleep hygiene I saw improvements in my arthritis and Type 2 diabetes sugar control. That makes sense because diabetes and arthritis are both inflammatory diseases, and the evidence is strong linking sleep disruption and a wide variety of inflammatory conditions linked with aging, including cardiovascular diseases and dementia.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    24. Re: You left off by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Every person is different and fucking around with the clock affects people in different ways. Is it really any skin off your back to not use DST?

    25. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In what way does he not get forced to use DST? If he gets to work at 8am when the DST says it's 7, he won't be allowed in because the place is closed. If he wants to leave at 5pm but DST says it is 4, his boss will fire him. So how is he not forced to use DST?

    26. Re:You left off by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      I'm one of those "it doesn't happen to me" guys, which is great for me.

      But it's still annoying and silly. There's no reason for it.

      The fix is simple, year-round DST. If the schoolkids standing at the bus stop in the dark is a problem, then you're starting school too early anyway. Stop doing that. If the farmer is milking cows according to the clock, the farmer is doing it wrong. The only sane thing to do is make next spring's changeover the last one ever, abandon "standard" time permanently.

      If anything, the changeover always went the wrong way anyway. Fall forward and spring back would make much more sense to me, I'd rather not have it dark when I finish working. So yeah, if we're going to do a changeover, it should be DST in the summer and DDST in the winter.

      But yeah, let's just dump it. DST year round.

    27. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was a kid and learned about this clock change I was amazed that an entire country agrees to change the clock just do that some people can have "more daylight" and I was like, don't they know the daylight isn't controlled by clocks?

    28. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... I've lived in Arizona most of my life ...

      I am so sorry for you. Perhaps a councilor can help you out with that.

    29. Re:You left off by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I live in Europe, trollerick. In fact I bet I visit other countries a lot more frequently than you at roughly twice a month. But hey, it's north-to-south, so I don't cross time zone borders.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    30. Re: You left off by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Yes, but why do you feel entitled to make the rest of us get up early?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    31. Re:You left off by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I travel a lot. And as such I can tell you it means little to me whether I go from Europe to the US or whether daylight saving strikes, equally I'm struggling to get back to a sensible rhythm.

      Fortunately I was able to simply go and ignore DST altogether. I come to work an hour late during the Summer and also leave an hour late. Hello flexible work times, go suck on my nuts DST.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    32. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't get hungry an hour earlier/later than the clock says you ought to? Good for you. Obviously then no one does.

      I eat when I'm hungry. What do you do?

    33. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A basic understanding of statistics is a prerequisite for slashdot. Go away.

    34. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when you're forced to get up by the clock before you're rhythm says you should, what does that do?

    35. Re:You left off by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      If it were just the usual "culture wars" over here, that would at least be something. I have no doubt that any attempt to get it changed would run into conspiracy theories from Alex Jones and people insisting it was liberals trying to destroy farms. That would be annoying, but it's far more annoying to me that no one seriously tries anyway.

    36. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, all that DST does is make the clock lie about when you got up. How about JUST GETTING UP EARLY????

    37. Re: You left off by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing: people tend to have more discretion about their "leave work" time than their "go to work" time. In the summer, office workers look outside at 5, see the traffic jam, say 'fuck it', and work another hour or two (thereby spreading their traffic over a longer interval of time). When DST ends, those same people run for the door at 5, causing INSTANT gridlock that persists until 7:30 or 8pm (which reinforces the 5pm race to the door... waiting only makes the drive even worse, vs summer when working an hour later can shave 30 minutes from the drive time).

      In contrast, morning traffic starts around 6am, peaks around 8, and falls off rapidly after 9, REGARDLESS of whether or not there's light outside.

    38. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unquestionably obey my chronometer overlords. They even tell me when I need to poop. Opah, it's 11:30 again, time to go make a deuce...

    39. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      England to France is north south but they are an hour out because Hitler put them on Berlin time.

    40. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's great for you, but some people have otherwise great jobs, except they can't do that!

    41. Re:You left off by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 1

      In this day and age, declaring yourself a victim is The way to promote your cause. An ideology is defined by what it is opposing, not what it tries to achieve. And there is no shortage of ideas, people and politicians to be against. The only problem with that tactic, is that the momentum of your cause rests on the strength of your enemy. If you win, you also lose. The best course of action is thus to merely complain. As long as there is no stand-off, there is no risk of victory nor defeat. Only noise.

    42. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fired is what you get if you bugger off to feed yourself when you want, and not on sanctioned break time.

    43. Re:You left off by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      They'd complain it was government interference probably, or that government was overreaching its authority, despite that government interference created this in the first place.

    44. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes me fucking pissed and angry to the point that I have to go to Slashdot and express my hatetred to all of teh Interwebz, bitch.

    45. Re: You left off by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that's the "standard time" in the winter, or "normal" time. In summer is when the time advances forward into "daylight savings time". That's why some countries call it "summer time".

      The reason it gets dark so early in some places is because the time zones themselves are very coarse approximations of solar time, with lines drawn due to politics very often.

      You could just get up at dawn instead, don't worry about what the clock says.

    46. Re:You left off by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Right, just look at winter. If you've got an eight hour workday, and daylight is only 6 hours in some places, then it's going to be dark at some point when you're at work. DST (which is summer) does not add extra hours of daylight, it just means that stores may open one hour later but stay open one hour later.

      It's rather silly since the store could just adjust their closing hours without the state getting involved. School is a different matter, but school hours can change also. But then some will complain that it needs to correspond to working hours... For that, companies should allow flexible schedules.

    47. Re:You left off by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      DST is for the summer, in winter we're in "standard" time (in northern hemisphere that is, in southern hemisphere winter and summer are swapped).

    48. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution to this is to offer flexible hours for employees in positions that don't really need to be present for specific hours. If you're not manning a phone or a counter, or whatever, why should you be required to start and end at a specific time rather than a rough time as long as hours are completed and the work is done?

      Seems kind of silly to tack an extra hour on each side of all the employees' commutes for traffic just to satisfy the cargo cult sensibility of an MBA who probably doesn't even keep the same hours, anyway.

    49. Re:You left off by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Read upthread for context and you'd know what I'm talking about. The proposal drops DST changes by staying in that offset year-round.

    50. Re:You left off by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      School is a different matter, but school hours can change also. But then some will complain that it needs to correspond to working hours... For that, companies should allow flexible schedules.

      School hours already don't align with working hours. Standard working hours are 8-5 (9 hours) where most schools run something like 730-230 or 830-330. If you get lucky or have a flexible schedule then you might be able to drop the kids off on your way to work but kids generally aren't at school for a full 8 hours much less the 9 hours of a typical work day.

    51. Re:You left off by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      which leads to one of the biggest complaints -- children having to go to school in the dark during the winter, which leads to various safety concerns. Of course, you could just have school start later, but now you're right back to the same thing that everyone complains about regarding DST -- changing the time you do things

      Well, why does EVERYBODY have to change something (changing clocks) so that some people that might have a complaint about something don't have to change (later school start)? That still makes no sense...

    52. Re:You left off by fatwilbur · · Score: 1

      The primary complaint from farmers was that the society they interact with - contractors, labourers, seed stores, other stores, etc., etc., would shift the schedules they operated by twice a year. Which is a larger than normal inconvenience for their group as one of the few who do actually operate their schedule according to the sun regardless of what some clock says.

    53. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get a fucked up sleep schedule for several weeks?

      Weeks? I get a fucked up sleep schedule for half a year, then need the next half a year to catch up on the sleep I've lost.

      When I'm finally well rested, the assholes messes with the clocks again.

      (Our biological clocks synchronize with the sun. Mine must be a little more strict about it than most peoples).

    54. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the population of the US does NOT travel internationally. We are too poor you 1%er, arrogant little self entitled prick!

    55. Re:You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People just to point out the closer you are to the equator the less you need DST.
      For me (I live a long way from the equator) it is a bigger deal and I appreciate DST, for others who live closer then get rid of it.
      DST is a great thing but it is not the same everywhere.

      Also as for the dosn't happen to me so it does not happen to anyone, there are a lot of losers who spend their day complaining that their car crashed they got hungry early or could not sleep. However there are some winners who don't really bother about complaining all day and actually get on with winning. Of course the losers want to basically find ways to run down verbally the winners so they feel better about themselves. When I was a kid I was taught stop crying get up and get back in the game.

      Be a winner and stop the crying!

    56. Re:You left off by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Nah, I live comfortably here. Housing is cheap and I don't have to get waken up an hour early.

    57. Re: You left off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do live north. It's dark when I go to work and dark when I get home. I only work 8.5 hours and live 5 minutes from work. I see no benefit, it's just always dark. At least I get some Sun when I go for walks at work in the brisk 15f outside air.

    58. Re:You left off by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Daylight at the end of the day is much more valuable to me all year round.

      In "Freedom Loving America" (), I assume that it is the rankest of communism to suggest that other people might have different lifestyles to you, and that they might actually deserve a little consideration.

      Of course, you can always conduct your business on a 10:00 to 19:00 clock if you want. Good luck coordinating with the rest of the universe. You can even leave your kid home-alone for 4 hours a day before school opens and pick them up from school 4 hours before the end of your working day if you want to live your individualistic life to a clock that you find convenient and the rest of the world can work to what clocks you aren't following yourself. Feel free to pay for 8 hours a dy of home tutor if you want - it's your money.

      There's a whole bunch of reasons that people synchronise their clocks to some degree. But mostly it adds up to being, on average, more efficient. "On average" is a a concept that Senator McArthy and his Commission on Un-American Activities tried to have made into an unthought in the anti-Communism purges of the 1950s, as parodied in Orwell's '1984'.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. I love daylight saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    An extra hour of light in the evening.

    I don't care at all whether is saves electricity or not.

    1. Re:I love daylight saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      so go to work early and leave early.

    2. Re:I love daylight saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An extra hour of light in the evening.

      The same extra hour you lose in the morning. Should DST be extended to the winter, many people will realize it is not so good having to go to work/school an hour earlier while it is still completely dark at 8:00 AM. Daylight is shorter in the winter, there is simply no way around that. With the clock adjustment, the more important part of the day is at least better aligned with when the sun rises.

    3. Re:I love daylight saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why we should be using Double DST in the winter, so that it's dark in the morning and not the evening.

      I'd much rather it be dark when I'm starting my day than when I'm finishing it.

  3. Re:Daylights savings causes miscarriages? strokes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't, it's the adjusting of a schedule that does. And only in the spring, when you "spring ahead" and lose an hour, the extra hour of sleep doesn't really have any effect in the fall.

    But if you eliminate daylight saving time, you're not going to change the need to have a winter and summer schedule. The sun's still going to rise when it does, and you're still going to need to adjust because of that. The reason "daylight saving time" exists is to get everyone on the same page about when that happens.

  4. Is that with DST or without? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... liked the idea of more daylight late in the day ...

    That's a reason for daylight saving, not against.

    ... would be less crime, fewer traffic accidents and we would actually save energy.

    All by changing the position of the sun, when we drive home. The only things that care about the sun are the cows and fish: If you're not dealing with those critters, you can commit crime anytime, or smash a car anytime. With people arriving home at night, they may use less air-con, so the energy-saving bit may be true.

    In my state, many people argue for daylight-saving, so they're in the same time-zone as the city across the state-line.

  5. It's"daylight saving" by Spy+Handler · · Score: 5, Informative

    singular, not plural.

    Also you don't need to capitalize each word. This is English, not German.

    Think of it like this: during a melee you pick up a +5 magic sword and say, "It's ass kicking time!". Not "It's Ass Kickings Time!"

    1. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Pseudonym · · Score: 1
      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    2. Re:It's"daylight saving" by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is English, not German.

      Noch nicht, aber wir arbeiten daran.

      If you ask a linguistic, they will you that English is a butt ugly bastard mix of French and German anyway.

      But English is amazingly effective in that everyone seems capable of using it. I sat in a company cafeteria in scenic Austin, Texas, and listened to how a colleague from China talked to a colleague from India . . . in an English that would have turned my 8th grade English teacher into a rampage. But hey, they could effectively communicate with each other. The wonders of English!

      Capitalizing words in English seems to be a bit of a fad these days . . . we can't blame it on the "hipsters" any more since they are now history.

      What are the current counter culture folks called . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    3. Re:It's"daylight saving" by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Also you don't need to capitalize each word. This is English, not German.

      In English, you capitalize most words in a title. See for example.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the modern technological world runs on english.

    5. Re:It's"daylight saving" by mrbester · · Score: 1

      And you definitely capitalise words that are part of an acronym.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    6. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stfu u do

    7. Re:It's"daylight saving" by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      This is English, not German.

      Noch nicht, aber wir arbeiten daran.

      Gesundheit.

    8. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Kjella · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you ask a linguistic, they will you that English is a butt ugly bastard mix of French and German anyway. But English is amazingly effective in that everyone seems capable of using it.

      Everyone is capable of using it just like they could butcher any language, but English is a PITA to learn properly because they've generally not only adopted the vocabulary but also other bits and pieces. For example say the following words: beak peak weak leak steak... whoops, the last one is completely different for no discernible reason because it's a loaner from old Norse. You were knighted but not fighted, you were fought. And you're ugly-uglier-ugliest but beautiful-more beautiful-most beautiful not beautiful(l?)er. It's no wonder that basic users end up with "me love you long time" English, a lot of it is simply rote memorization that this is the way things are. Same with vocabulary, a driver does driving and a plumber does plumbing but a person cooking food is a chef rather than a cook(er?). It's not that any pattern is more or less valid, but English got all of them mashed together.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      singular, not plural.

      Not to mention that Slashdot just last week ran a story about this, before proceeding to run a summary chock full of the same error they spent time pointing out.

      And yet I keep coming back to Slashdot.

    10. Re: It's"daylight saving" by locketine · · Score: 1

      Umm... No, no you do not. I'll do that if I'm trying to explain the acronym, but otherwise that's specifically not something people do.

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    11. Re:It's"daylight saving" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Hmm, if I just picked up a +5 magic sword I'd probably say "It's ass stabbing time", but I take your point.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's even right there in the summary under "related links", and they still get it wrong.

    13. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      It is not true that a person who does cooking is not a cook. Have You really never heard the phrase "too many cooks spoil the broth"? A Chef is a master cook.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      I just picked up a +5 magic sword I'd probably say "Death to the infidels! Allahu ackbar!"

      FTFY.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      You are doing it wrong then. You always capitalize words that make up an acronym. As was already pointed out you also capitalize words in titles, save conjunctions and prepositions. So Daylight Savings Time is correct in the title for two different reasons.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They aren't a cooker, though, which is the point he was trying to make. In British English at least that's an appliance.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ass-kicking" time, not "ass kicking time". "Ass kicking time" is when time is kicked by an ass.

      Also, if there was an official dedicated time for ass-kicking then you should capitalise the first letter, as per the conventions of the English language for proper nouns. So the correct term would be either "Ass-Kicking Time" (the time for kicking ass) or perhaps even "Ass Kickings Time" (the time in which the aforementioned acts of kicking ass occur). "Ass kicking time" is nonsense.

    18. Re:It's"daylight saving" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You know I actually despise Islam, right?

      It's it really just that one comment that made you think this or is there more? I want to understand what happened.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The verbs are very simple; only two conjugated tenses, everything else is done with auxiliaries, as is the subjunctive. No silly gender nonsense either. That's a lot simpler than French or Italian.

      The downside is that the spelling is an absolute bastard, and some learners screw up phrasal verbs - but they can all bugger off.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    20. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      A driver drives, a plumber plumbs, and a cook cooks. A cooker also cooks, but a cooker is in fact a device. There are many inconsistencies in the English language, but this isn't one of them.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    21. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do the French do about all the new genders?

    22. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They squeeze their arses, same as before.

      Oh hang on, that's the Italians.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    23. Re:It's"daylight saving" by mentholsmooth · · Score: 1

      Unless you're Minsc...He would totally say something like that. But we are talking about the same guy who hid a hamster up his butt for months....

    24. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that appliance doesn't even do the cooking, it only does the boiling. But it's not called a boiler now, isn't it?

    25. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You capitalize classes, but not objects nor methods.

    26. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      both cooker and driver are devices.

      plumber is the odd one.

    27. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      std::string wrong = "Tell that to Bjarne";

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    28. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you capitalize it because it is the proper name of the event. not because it is an acronym.

    29. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Dale Earnhardt Jr. *may* be a tool, but he is certainly not a device.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    30. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)m not the previous poster, so I canâ(TM)t answers for them. You seem to be one of the people around here that espouse most of the social justice talking points, so it was probably assumed that youâ(TM)re pro-Islam like a lot of other self-describing western feminists tend to be. Itâ(TM)s like seeing someone with a Celtics cap and a Tom Brady jersey on and assuming theyâ(TM)re a Red Sox fan.

    31. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      It's not an event, it is a state.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    32. Re:It's"daylight saving" by skastrik · · Score: 1

      ...In English, you capitalize most words in a title. See for example.

      I would actually really appreciate if Slashdot would switch to plain sentence case for all article titles. It is usually much easier to read, in particular for technical stuff where it is often difficult today to tell if some word is a company name or some tech thingy.

    33. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment reminded me of this:
      poem on english pronunciation

    34. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      English is a meta-proto-language. It describes how to and provides material to construct a language on the fly. If you know the basics of English vocabulary, you can get your point across by speaking your own language's syntax and construction with English words.

      A person cooking food is a cook unless they're the chief of the kitchen staff and there are at least two people working in the kitchen, in which case, they're a chef.

      And if you want the absolute worst words that look the same but sound different, try anything ending in -ough.

      Bough - a tree limb, pronounced like "bow", as in "take a bow" (not as in "bow and arrow", ugh, even the examples suck)
      Cough - to clear the throat, usually suddenly with a spasm, pronounced "coff"
      Dough - uncooked bread, pronounced as rhyming with "go"
      Plough - an archaic spelling of "plow", pronounced the same as "plow"
      Rough - the opposite of smooth, pronounced "ruff"
      Tough - difficult, strong, chewy. pronounced "tuff"
      Trough - a water container that animals drink from, or a ditch for water drainage. pronounced "troff". not related to the unix command.
      Through - describes motion transitioning past or across the center of something. pronounced "throo", sometimes spelled "thru" in informal contexts.
      Thorough - complete or full, pronounced "thor-oh"

      So -ough can make a word end with "ow", "off", "oh", "uff", or "oo". And the Brits (and closeted Brit-wannabes, like teachers) will defend this stupidity to their dying, uppity breaths.

    35. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't need to capitalize each word. This is English, not German.

      You have it exactly backwards. German doesn't know "title case". Only nouns are capitalized in German.

    36. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's kind of funny to imagine that Slashdot has anything so organized and well-defined as a style guide for publishing articles. Switching to sentence case seems to suggest that someone has interrogated their current use of title case, and given the apparent amount of editorial effort that a lot of stories exhibit, that level of awareness seems beyond possibility.

    37. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then what does a screwdriver do?

    38. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "a driver does driving and a plumber does plumbing but a person cooking food is a chef rather than a cook(er?)"

      A person who cooks food is a 'cook'. A person who oversees cooks is a chef.

    39. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are the current counter culture folks called . . . ?

      Prisoners

    40. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Drives screws. DOH!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    41. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But This Is The Slashdot Way: "United States Many US States Consider Abandoning Daylight Savings Time" Is The Headline For This Very Article.

    42. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I was watching a nature show the other day, and I had a question. Why aren't multiple mongooses called "mongeese"? For that matter, why isn't more than one moose "meese"?

      And a similar question, why is the state next to me pronounced Kansas, while the state to the south is pronounced "Arkansaw"?

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    43. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      For the first one, probably because "goose" is Germanic (vowel changes are quite common - e.g. man/men) and "mongoose" is ... not.

      For the second ... I'm stumped there. Was the -aw one settled by froggies?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    44. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you ask a linguistic, they will you that English is a butt ugly bastard mix of French and German anyway.
       
      And British too. Let's not forget those British talkers... friggin' tosser, all of them.

    45. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blame the lack of capitalization on t.s. eliot

    46. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also you don't need to capitalize each word. This is English, not German.

      Take a look at The Constitution or The Declaration of Independence and you'll see that English used to have the same capitalization rules as German.

    47. Re: It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell happened in your post? All the tâ(TM)s are BIZARRE.

    48. Re:It's"daylight saving" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same with vocabulary, a driver does driving and a plumber does plumbing but a person cooking food is a chef rather than a cook(er?)..

      Indeed, one who cooks is not a cooker, but one who hooks is a ...

      Sometimes it does work.

  6. The reason it doesn't happen by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Funny

    The reason it doesn't happen is because people will be upset when they find out they have to be on 'winter' time all year round.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that and the large number of people that don't understand that daylight saving time doesn't actually add any extra time to the day or any extra daylight.

    2. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that and the large number of people that don't understand that daylight saving time doesn't actually add any extra time to the day or any extra daylight.

      Blame that on the failure of the US education system to achieve even the most basic of things.
      Days are 24 hours long (for all practical purposes, no need of pedantry arguments here) during the whole year. What changes between winter time and summer time is just where we put the zero so to speak.

    3. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact during most of November and February, and all of December and January at average US/European latitudes having DST would cause it to be still dark well past 8 o'clock in the morning, till around 8:30 and it would still be dark bu 6 PM.

      Which would be even worse than with solar time. Having sun outside of work hours is a luxury we can appreciate on spring/summer only, there simply are not enough light hours during fall/winter for that.

    4. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that and the large number of people that don't understand that daylight saving time doesn't actually add any extra time to the day or any extra daylight.

      Blame that on the failure of the US education system to achieve even the most basic of things.
      Days are 24 hours long (for all practical purposes, no need of pedantry arguments here) during the whole year. What changes between winter time and summer time is just where we put the zero so to speak.

      Looks like you need to go back to basic science class. Because of the earth's elliptical orbit, we get more hours of "daylight" during some parts of the year (Summer) and less during others (Winter).

      DST seek to take advantage of the extra hours of daylight during the summer months, changing the clock so that you have "more hours of daylight" in the evening, which is when it is more desirable.

      If the earth had a perfectly circular orbit, none of this would matter. But it doesn't, so get over it already.

    5. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why you get rid of it in the spring.

      Who wants to lose an hour of sleep? No one. Well stay on "fall back" time and stave off the reaper for an extra hour!

    6. Re: The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like you need to go back to basic science class. Because of the earth's elliptical orbit, we get more hours of "daylight" during some parts of the year (Summer) and less during others (Winter).

      Dang, here I was thinking the seasons was [mainly] due to Earth's rotational axle being tilted (not perpendicular) with respect to the orbital plane making the north end lean in towards the Sun during part of the orbit/year (northern summer), and away from the Sun during northern winter...If you're closer to the Equator you don't notice much, but at higher latitudes the variation is greater, all the way to 24h daylight during summer and 0h during winter, for longer periods the higher the latitude.

    7. Re:The reason it doesn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason it doesn't happen is because people will be upset when they find out they have to be on 'winter' time all year round.

      Well, if that'll solve global warming then go for it.

  7. Daylight Stupid Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What would we do without that extra hour that is manufactured free during summer? It's free isn't it? It comes from space or something.

    1. Re:Daylight Stupid Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's free isn't it? It comes from space or something.

      It's stolen from God. Why else do you think we get hurricanes all through the summer?

  8. This is incorrect by maroberts · · Score: 5, Informative

    What they're suggesting is actually remaining on "Summer" time all year round.

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when the sunrise comes at quarter past eight in boston on christmas morning, they'll change their tune.

      (in duluth, it'd be nearly nine am if minnesota was on year-round dst)

      there's reasons why dst make sense. what doesn't make sense is calling it daylight saving time. it's 'daylight adjustment'... it's "winter time" and "summer time". adjusting our common clocks to match the changes in the sun a couple times per year makes sense. better than manually adjusting our schedules accordingly -- easier to just let the fucking clock do the work.

    2. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever since the invention of the light bulb, it doesn't matter when the sun comes up.
      With dark curtains you could sleep during the day and work at night if you wanted to.
      Adjusting clocks and schedules makes no sense, unless you work in agriculture.

    3. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever since the invention of torches and candles

      That looks more correct and also covers a much longer time span.

    4. Re: This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time zones are set up poorly. That leads to a lot of the problem. Solar noon is when the sun is at its highest and solar midnight is when the sun is farthest below the horizon. People seem to like it when solar noon actually happens around 1 PM local time, based on when their working hours are scheduled and schools are open. In many cases, time zones are skewed to allow for this, so that they're effectively on daylight or summer time by default. Some time zones are also wider than they really ought to be. The western part of the Eastern time zone is skewed so solar noon is actually closer to 1 PM than local noon. The same thing happens in a significant part of the central time zone. New England isn't actually skewed in this manner because the Eastern time zone is so wide, and shifting to Atlantic time would effectively accomplish that. Part of this problem would be solved by fixing time zone boundaries and then deciding if it's desirable to skew everything by an hour or however much time.

    5. Re:This is incorrect by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

      UK here, winter time is stupid, it gets light before I even wake up and then it gets dark before I'm even on my way home from work. We just changed from BritishSummerTime which made a lot more sense.

      So Winter Time is stupid and rubbish, I'd much prefer to have some day time left in the evening than have it completely wasted whilst I'm sleeping.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    6. Re:This is incorrect by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      Ever since the invention of the light bulb, it doesn't matter when the sun comes up.

      But, if you adjust your clock so that you are performing more activities while it is light outside, then you eliminate the need for some of those light bulbs, which is the whole point of DST.

    7. Re:This is incorrect by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Candles (especially good ones that don't smell and produce loads of smoke) were an expensive luxury through most of history.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:This is incorrect by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That doesn't work well in higher latitudes, because then you end up with schoolchildren walking to school in the morning while it is still almost pitch black outside through most of December and January. The hour right before sunrise is often both the darkest and coldest period of the night.

      Unless you propose that children start and finish school an hour later than they currently do, which could would be an even bigger clusterfuck than DST as tens of millions of adults, via a ripple effect, end up having to adjust their schedules to compensate, forcing them to work later as well, and negating the extra hour of daylight that they might otherwise have had in the evening.

      "Standard" time year around makes the most sense. Noon, logically, is when the sun *should* be at its highest in the sky, but on DST, the sun is at that position at 1PM through the summer months.

    9. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, get rid of time zones and use UTC. In a few months, you'll adjust to waking up at 13:00 and working from 14:00 to 23:00, then watching the news at 04:00 and going to bed at 05:30.

      And when someone says "we're open from 12:00 to 04:00", you'll get used to the fact that those are typical daylight hours. And when someone on the other side of the world schedules something for 07:00, you'll know that you're not going to attend because you'll be sound asleep and they can either get it done before 04:00 or wait until 13:00, because screw them.

      TL;DR: Stop synchronizing clocks to local high noon, and instead pick an arbitrary point to measure high noon from and synchronize clocks to that.

    10. Re:This is incorrect by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      UK here, winter time is stupid, it gets light before I even wake up and then it gets dark before I'm even on my way home from work. We just changed from BritishSummerTime which made a lot more sense.

      So Winter Time is stupid and rubbish, I'd much prefer to have some day time left in the evening than have it completely wasted whilst I'm sleeping.

      And I disagree completely. Waking up in the dark is damn depressing, whereas I fully expect the evenings to be dark (in winter they are dark no matter what because the day is so short).

    11. Re:This is incorrect by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Day light whilst sleeping is completely wasted, that's the point here, the days feel even shorter when the sun goes down an hour earlier, day light in the late afternoon isn't wasted for 99% of people, very few people go to bed in the afternoon.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    12. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't work well in higher latitudes, because then you end up with schoolchildren walking to school in the morning while it is still almost pitch black outside through most of December and January. The hour right before sunrise is often both the darkest and coldest period of the night.

      Swede here, from the city of eternal headwind. I walked uphill in both directions to school through the winters. It was dark and cold both ways. I didn't mind.

      Let the children speak for themselves and don't force your opinions on them.
      If you have opinions of your own, argue for them instead.

    13. Re:This is incorrect by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Go to work later and come home from work earlier. The only way for you to get longer days in winter is to move closer to the equator.

    14. Re:This is incorrect by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      That'd be nice, but I don't get that much say about my hours (weeks yes, hours no) and my job is very location specific.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    15. Re:This is incorrect by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      No it's not wasted, it makes my brain think it's time to get up and my eyes are happy that it is light instead of getting up in the middle of the night.

    16. Re:This is incorrect by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      And what if it's not time to get up because they've just moved the clocks back and the sun rises too early?

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    17. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is just another way of saying "We've been in the wrong time zone all along!"

    18. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't. Clocks are a modern(ish) invention, our bodies evolved to follow the sun.

      Thus the sun always rises at the correct time, and the whole DST thing is what's messed up.

    19. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Standard" time is bullshit. I don't want to deal with the sunrise at 6:30 am so that I can come home to dusk at 5 pm, and I'm down in Texas. Various studies have already shown that kids do better in school when they start later in the morning. They also get into less trouble if they get out of school around 5 pm as there is less time for them to get in trouble between when school gets out and when parents get home.

      Standard time year round might make the most "logical" sense, but from a "practical" and "I actually want to have daylight after work when I'm able to enjoy it" sense it is incredibly inconvenient.

    20. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hour right before sunrise is often both the darkest and coldest period of the night.

      While it is often the coldest hour, it's never the darkest hour - that's solar midnight. The hour before the sun comes up is quite a bit brighter.

    21. Re:This is incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't being on "summer" time all year contribute to global warming????

    22. Re:This is incorrect by imrahilj · · Score: 1

      I absolutely welcome a 8:15 am sunrise on Christmas morning. I'd far rather have more light in the evening. When you are only working with ~9 hours of daylight, you don't get to have daylight on both ends of the work day, and I'd rather be in the dark in the morning, when I'm more alert, than at night, when I'm sleepy. Massachusetts is in the far eastern side of EST. It doesn't make sense for Ohio and Massachusetts to be in the same time zone, they are simply too far apart.

    23. Re:This is incorrect by imrahilj · · Score: 1

      AST is what standard time for MA should be. We are too far east for EST to make as much sense for us as it does for other parts of the country further west.

  9. Not quite by sjames · · Score: 4, Informative

    Several northern states are considering going from Eastern to Atlantic time, effectively springing ahead and never falling back.

  10. Re:Daylights savings causes miscarriages? strokes? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ever since cell phones came out, I don't even notice DST anymore. It just kind of happens and my clocks adjust automatically.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  11. Make the entire year DST by execthis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most people don't like when DST ends, not when it is in effect. We don't like the loss of daylight in the evenings in Winter. It gets dark too quickly. People come come from work and it's already dark and they have no daylight time left to enjoy on their own.

    So if DST is abandoned, then clocks should be permanently adjusted forward one hour. Of course that would never happen because standard time zones are offset from UTC.

    So maybe the best solution would be to extend DST to cover the entire year.

    1. Re:Make the entire year DST by execthis · · Score: 1

      Ok just replying to this because the timestamp above was incorrectly set to 02:01.

    2. Re:Make the entire year DST by execthis · · Score: 1

      ...and it's 01:03 right now...

    3. Re:Make the entire year DST by msauve · · Score: 2, Informative
      But of course, only an idiot would think that DST actually saves any daylight.

      Which is better than a the author of the summary, who's straight out lying. Where they (EditorDavid?) claim "A special Massachusetts commission recommends the state stop observing Daylight Savings TIme", the actual article says

      Massachusetts should only consider moving to what in essence is year-round Daylight Saving Time

      ...which is exactly the opposite of what the summary says.

      It's also sheer idiocy. But that's not surprising, since they studied a bunch of idiots - "retailers liked the idea of more daylight late in the day for shoppers." Sorry, no, there is no "more daylight." A government law can't change astrophysics. If people want more light after working hours, push for a change from a 9-5 to a 8-4 working day. Clocks are based around solar noon. We're screwing it up half the year now, don't screw it up for the full year.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Make the entire year DST by Powercntrl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most people don't like when DST ends, not when it is in effect.

      You have to be a morning person to actually like DST. Fuck that. Anyone who enjoys being awake at the crack of dawn should just get up early of their own accord.

      If you ask me, the biggest waste isn't daylight. It's all the road space, electrical generating capacity, and cell network bandwidth that goes unused every night, because there's a silly stigma against working the graveyard shift. Unless you work outside, it makes absolutely no difference whether the sun is shining over your place of employment. Convince half the population to be nocturnal and you've doubled the capacity of your roads, without paving a single new lane.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    5. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if DST is abandoned, then clocks should be permanently adjusted forward one hour.

      Why settle for one? Why not two, or three quarters?
      We can pick freely at what time we want the brightest time of the day to be.

      It is also completely pointless since the times we work aren't physically attached to the clock.
      If you want brighter evenings we could just get rid of DST and change office jobs to start at 6 instead.

      If we want to keep DST (If we want to have daylight during working hours and put whatever is left in the evenings.) then the current implementation is based on a time when adjusting the clock had to be done manually.
      Implemented today we could make the change gradual and add/subtract a minute each day for two month each.
      That way our bodies wouldn't have to make this large adjustment and the slightly longer/shorter days wouldn't be noticeable.

    6. Re:Make the entire year DST by hazardPPP · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Clocks are based around solar noon. We're screwing it up half the year now, don't screw it up for the full year.

      The actual day is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds, so we are already off by having a 24 hour day. Not to mention the year does not have 365 days exactly, which is why we have leap years, but the Gregorian calendar isn't perfect etc.

      Furthermore, time zones (even we look at "pure, straight" time zones, not adjustments made for political or practical reasons) are a rough approximation. If every clock were tracking solar noon, the time 100 a miles away would be slightly different. Time zones were created to have predictable shifts in the clock. Ergo, most of the Earth is off of true solar noon, DST or not.

      Finally, due to the arbitrary nature of some time zones due to political or economic considerations, moving permanently to DST would actually take a lot of places closer to actual solar noon.

      Ultimately, telling time is just a convention. All that matters is that this convention is consistent planet-round so we can effectively schedule things. In the end, what is the practical difference of working 8-4 and setting the clock one hour forward and working 9-5?

    7. Re:Make the entire year DST by janeil · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what time zones could move closer to solar noon on DST, I thought the eastern edge of the time zones is usually closest to solar noon. For example, in western Ohio we're on the western edge of EST, and our solar noon doesn't come until about 12:50 on normal time. Hell, in the summer we don't hit solar noon until around 2 in the afternoon, it's almost arbitrary. That's my only argument against DST, it just makes the clock time so far off "natural" solar time. Noon should be noon.

    8. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "retailers liked the idea of more daylight late in the day for shoppers." Sorry, no, there is no "more daylight."

      While there is not "more daylight" there is "more daylight late in the day", i.e. after work, i.e. when people actually go shopping.

    9. Re: Make the entire year DST by locketine · · Score: 1

      This is brilliant. And not only does it lower infrastructure costs, commuter times, etc, but we'd also have all of our leisure time during daylight.

      Down with our agrarian based work schedules!

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    10. Re: Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have always hear of a 9-5 workday, but in practice have always had something like 7-4, 7:30-4:30, or 8-5. What jobs and businesses actually have 9-5 hours?

    11. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The actual day is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds, so we are already off by having a 24 hour day.

      Uhh, no. You're talking about a sidereal day, which is the rotation of the earth relative to the rest of the universe, and the reason that is different is because we are in orbit around the sun and that orbit shifts our relationship with the universe around us. Imagine spinning in a circle while you're on a merry-go-round that is itself spinning (much slower than you), and you are talking about your relationship to the school that the merry-go-round is near, not your relationship to the center of the merry-go-round. That is much different than a solar day, which is the commonplace use of the term "day". Otherwise, you'd effectively shift two hours in your daylight rotation every month. You're not even being pedantic here, just absurd.

    12. Re:Make the entire year DST by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sorry, no, there is no "more daylight." A government law can't change astrophysics.

      Lucky we had you here to point that out.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:Make the entire year DST by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      I thought about it too. You gain a little sunlight in the morning - (When people like me, don't want it glaring in my eyes as I'm driving.) And then you get shorted when you need it in the evening. (I don't go to sleep around 4:00pm.

    14. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, let's face it, literally every business I have been in ALWAYS have their lights on in the morning when it is still low-light. ("white looks slightly peach" low)
      Usually around 2-3 hours each side of noon, the lights are almost always ON.

      The supposed power savings are minimal since all it does is shift them to nighttime use.
      This is arguably the worst time, especially for solar since it means as night time rolls in, the power use shoots up which can't be adequately met by solar power, which requires power stations to start piling on the fuel WELL IN ADVANCE of its actual use. Coal stations are nearly half a day warm-up. HALF a day.
      If the power stations fuck this up, you get brown- and black-outs.
      So much power is wasted in predicting power use at night time. So SO much.
      We simply haven't got good energy buffers to help manage this. We sorely need new battery tech to help with this.

    15. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the real problem is that everyone has some brilliant idea that never entails simply staying with the 24 time zones that divide up those 60x6 meridians that the British/French/Babylonians were so fond of. So many clever people just can't come to terms with the fact that sunrises and sunsets never happen at exactly the same clock time each day. It makes their heads explode.

      I have an idea. Let's make everyone in the world observe GMT. If they don't like waking up at 2 AM, they can suck it.

    16. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      State legislators have on occasion tried to legislate the value of pi to be a whole number or one decimal long. Idiots are everywhere, but they do the most damage when they band together.

    17. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Finally, due to the arbitrary nature of some time zones due to political or economic considerations, moving permanently to DST would actually take a lot of places closer to actual solar noon. ...and make an equal number of places further away from real solar noon. So what? Every scheme you could possibly come up with is going to arbitrary.

    18. Re:Make the entire year DST by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      With everyone using digital clocks, there is really no reason that we couldn't just set 12:00 as solar noon and do micro adjustments every day to the clock.
      We would likely still want time zones so you could use the solar noon of the center of the timezone.

    19. Re:Make the entire year DST by jklein · · Score: 1

      Or maybe just change our mind-set to do everything one hour earlier. There is nothing that requires our workday to begin at 9:00 am, so just adjust business hours. Granted, eight to four is not as catchy a song title, but hey...

    20. Re:Make the entire year DST by swillden · · Score: 5, Informative

      The actual day is 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds

      It's blindingly obvious that this cannot be true. Think about it. Our clocks measure 24-hour days. If the solar day (the time between when the sun is directly overhead) were actually almost four minutes shorter than 24 hours, noon would shift by two hours every month. Sunrise and sunset would shift by even more.

      The figure you mention is correct if you're judging completion of a day by watching far-distant stars (sidereal day). If you're judging it by looking at the sun, which is what's useful for human schedules, the mean length of a day is 24 hours and 0.002 seconds (solar day).

      The difference is that the apparent motion of distant stars is caused only by the Earth's rotation. The apparent motion of the sun is caused by the Earth's rotation and the Earth's orbital motion about the sun. Because the orbit is elliptical, the length of a solar day actually changes throughout the course of the year. But the mean length is ever so slightly more than 24 hours

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    21. Re:Make the entire year DST by chuckugly · · Score: 1

      Because the Earth and sun orbit about each other, the day for the purposes of this discussion is not the same as the sidereal day. The rest of your comment I basically agree with.

    22. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite right. It's muy importante that we know when it's midnight in Berlin rather than London. It's even more important that New Yorkers keep up with events in those busy cities found in Labrador and Newfoundland.

    23. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sunrises and sunsets are documented to occur regardless of what time zone you live in and where you are in that time zone. At any given time, a substantial number of people are driving somewhere with the sun shining directly in their eyes. They're probably reacting to it in the dumbest way possible and contributing to traffic jams. No amount of legislation will change that.

    24. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be a morning person to actually like DST

      What the actual fuck are you talking about?
      I hate getting up early, that's why I prefer DST over standard time. In DST the sun gets up later, which I don't care about, and also sets later. And that I do care about, because I actually get some sun in the evening.

    25. Re: Make the entire year DST by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Or, we could compromise, split the difference, and redefine EST as UTC-4.5, CST as UTC-5.5, MST as UTC-6.5, and PST as UTC-7.5

      If we had to, we could rename our timezones to something like ECT, CCT, MCT, and PCT ("x Compromise Time"), though I suspect Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean would follow us anyway (in fact, I think Canadian law actually defines DST by referencing US standards, just to make it automatic & avoid the mess that would happen if Canadian DST had different dates than the US).

    26. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having had a father that worked the graveyard shift 1/3 of the time and having myself done enough to know better ... its not a silly stigma its life vs existence. You may be the severe exception (like my ex) that thrives on the graveyard shift but you are a tiny minority believe me.

    27. Re: Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clock drift in dealing with anyone more than a few miles a way would be a bitch. Think about doctors trying to schedule surgery across towns.

    28. Re: Make the entire year DST by Defakto · · Score: 1

      Actually he is correct. Though, the rotation isn't constant. It's called a stellar day. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

    29. Re:Make the entire year DST by trawg · · Score: 1

      Agree for the same reasons. Where I'm from (Qld, Australia) in summer the sun is up by 4.30am and it's often pushing 30 degrees celcius soon after. Unlike the other states on the eastern seaboard, we do not have daylight savings, so it's dark by 7pm.

      I am not at all a morning person but in Qld I almost don't have a choice because it's hard to sleep much later. For me DST means a much nicer summer.

      Where I live now (London, UK), we've just switched off DST. It's now suddenly pitch black by 5pm and it's creeping down earlier and earlier. It's amazing the impact this has on the day. Again as a non-morning person I'd happily sacrifice an hour of morning light for more in the evening, even though in winter the difference would be massively less noticable here.

    30. Re: Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A stellar day is constant (or as close as makes any difference). What could cause it to vary?

    31. Re: Make the entire year DST by swillden · · Score: 1

      Actually he is correct. Though, the rotation isn't constant. It's called a stellar day. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

      A stellar day is the same thing as a sidereal day, and neither are the basis of our normal day/night cycle, which is the solar day. The solar day is not constant, due to the eccentricity of the Earth's orbit. The sidereal or stellar day is constant, because the Earth's rotation does not vary. Oh, it's very gradually slowing, but not enough to make any difference in our everyday timekeeping.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    32. Re:Make the entire year DST by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This depends upon where you live. The time zone lines are not drawn in a logical manner, but often for political reasons they shift. So rather than always being within 30 minutes of the true solar time, some areas may be very far off. So while one city may complain that it's getting dark at 4pm, another city in the same time zone and latitude may not see it go dark until 6pm.

    33. Re:Make the entire year DST by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      And if we really want to increase the number of shopping hours, Massachusetts could just adopt Europe time, the sun comes up at the end of the work and stays light for many hours after that. That's silly though, it's simpler for the stores to just stay open later in the summer, offices could allow workers to leave before its dark in the winter, and so forth.

      We're never going to fix the problem that in Winter the days will be shorter. You either force dawn to come earlier or you force dusk to come later, you can't adjust both. Either it's dark in the morning and I hate that, or it's dark when I come home and I hate that. No amount of adjusting time zones will fix that.

    34. Re:Make the entire year DST by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      And we can just shift, assuming that work allows us to. Not just our work, but other people's work if you want to avoid traffic. There are a lot of factors that try to shift people into a standard work day, and that's what is messing us up. A shift of merely an hour is not a big deal to adjust to, but if someone needs daylight to be productive then winter is always going to suck no matter how the time zones are arranged.

    35. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be an attractive and successful African-American.

    36. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again as a non-morning person I'd happily sacrifice an hour of morning light for more in the evening

      To "sacrifice an hour of morning light" simply means that you'll happily get out of bed an hour earlier.

      That's the usual definition of a morning person.

      A non-morning person would probably shoot you for even suggesting that they get out of bed an hour earlier.

    37. Re:Make the entire year DST by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      If you ask me, the biggest waste isn't daylight. It's all the road space, electrical generating capacity, and cell network bandwidth that goes unused every night, because there's a silly stigma against working the graveyard shift. Unless you work outside, it makes absolutely no difference whether the sun is shining over your place of employment. Convince half the population to be nocturnal and you've doubled the capacity of your roads, without paving a single new lane.

      Good luck with that. Nocturnal schedules are significantly harder on the body. It has nothing to do with preference, it has everything to do with biology.

    38. Re:Make the entire year DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part the blurb missed is that new england will be joining the atlantic time zone. Where it belongs.

    39. Re:Make the entire year DST by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what time zones could move closer to solar noon on DST, I thought the eastern edge of the time zones is usually closest to solar noon.

      The Central European Time zone (CET; GMT +1 that is, GMT +2 during DST) is arbitrarily extended both eastward and westward due to political reasons. Its western edges (Spain) should be GMT and its eastern edges (e.g. Serbia) GMT +2 (and they used to be until ~40 years ago). The eastern edges are therefore closer to noon during DST in the summer - and moving permanently to GMT +2 would make it so all year round.

      Of course, for Spain for example, this would make things worse as it would make them permanently 2 hours out of wack, but I guess that could encourage them to move back to their "proper" time zone.

      These types of situations are repeated all over the planet (think China, which despite spanning five actual time zones, is in a single time zone by decree), and DST seems to have a bit of a "smoothing" effect on these semi-arbitrary time zones, meaning that if it is to be abolished, there would be a lot of argument whether you should abolish DST or move to permanent DST. I would hope that such discussions would end with the most logical solution - the break-up of these arbitrary time zones into more sensible ones more closely aligned with the "true" time zones - but we can't really hope for that, as unfortunately politics trumps reason a lot of the time.

    40. Re:Make the entire year DST by janeil · · Score: 1

      Ah, interesting! I confess to thinking only of N. America and not considering the other fine continents!

      It's hilarious that all of China is one time zone.

  12. Compromise by rossdee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Advance the clocks half an hour next spring and then leave them there

    1. Re:Compromise by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      That's probably going to be really hard for a lot of software.

      I wouldn't make such a change without at least a 24 month warning to everyone.

      I'm for getting rid of DST tho. I hate DST.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    2. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's probably going to be really hard for a lot of software.

      There are OS updates/patches for time zones all the time. It's automatic.

      There was a flurry of changes in the US a few years ago (6?) when they changed the dates of the change to be 2-3 weeks sooner. It was in the name of saving energy. The data showed it consumed more.

    3. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Advance the clocks half an hour next spring and then leave them there

      And stick with DST, make the day a 24.5 hour day and let the next generation deal with the fallout.

    4. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should it be a problem? There's a couple of countries on half-hour "*" time-zones already. I'm quite sure they have computers there.

      And computers should all be running on UTC anyway.

    5. Re:Compromise by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Companies with custom software.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    6. Re:Compromise by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      ANY change is hard for software. Dealing with time zones and DST is a bitch in software, and I see so many people screw it up when the implement such things (necessary when the normal libraries won't fit on embedded systems). Any change means fixing up all the databases on all the systems that use time.

      (Annoying sometimes when you've got some systems that stick exclusively to local times, meaning you have to fix up time twice a year. I've seen it on medical equipment when someone naively assumes a hospital network will never straddle a time zone, and on electricity networks where the meters only know local time but the utility straddles 3 time zones. I see equipment where the time zone rules are hardcoded, even though we know the rules will inevitably change before the equipment hits end of life. It was only a decade ago that DST rules in the US changed...)

    7. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been saying this for years. Glad there is at least one other person on the bandwagon.

    8. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This ^^^

    9. Re:Compromise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a flurry of changes in the US a few years ago (6?) when they changed the dates of the change to be 2-3 weeks sooner. It was in the name of saving energy. The data showed it consumed more.

      No, the new start / end dates for DST had nothing to do with energy savings. The start was chosen so that Easter would always be when DST is in effect. The end date was chosen so that Halloween would always be during DST. Yes, remember that the end was moved from the last Sunday of October to the first Sunday in November.

  13. Time by tquasar · · Score: 1

    I hate it, don't see any benefit or reason for the change. Schools can change their start time so the little children don't have to walk in the scary darkness. Analog clocks are easy to adjust but some digital ones are a pain to reset. The health studies should be shared widely but most sheeple will never read them. It's two AM in my zone.

    1. Re:Time by sjames · · Score: 4, Funny

      I was in the 2nd grade the year we did DST in January. Far from scary darkness, the kids loved it. It was an excuse to carry a flashlight to walk to the bus stop (pretty cool when you're 7 years old). I'm sure some parents FEARED for safety, but since we had flashlights, we couldn't have been that hard to see.

    2. Re:Time by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Schools can change their start time so the little children don't have to walk in the scary darkness.

      So suddenly, loads of parents end up having to adjust *their* schedules to compensate, so that they don't end up needing to leave their kids alone at home for as much as an hour before school. Via a ripple effect, your proposal would actually end up affecting a majority of adults, causing most people to have to work later in the day and completely negating the extra hour of daylight that you supposedly got in the afternoon.

      What is so awful about noon being the time when the sun is the highest in the sky year 'round?

    3. Re:Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since DST means everyone, parent or not, taking kids to school or not, ALL have to adjust their schedules AND THEIR CLOCK. This is better HOW????
      The calls to be on permanent DST are just dropping the "AND THEIR CLOCK" bit, but if you're going to not do that, just change the hours permanently and job done.

  14. Any language is "effective" by your standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's nothing unique about the English language that makes it any easier to pick up or use with a limited vocabulary. I manage to be understood in Tokyo with Japanese that is just one step above atrocious. Go to Mexico and the locals some how understand most of the vacationers hurling Spanish that is just as bad. You'll see the same everywhere with locals tolerating travelers making an earnest but generally bad effort to speak the language. Most of my friends who speak English as a second language describe it as an absolute nightmare to learn because pretty much every grammar, syntax and pronunciation rule has exceptions and exceptions to the exceptions (because it originated from languages thrown in a blender). But they make do because they want to work in the US or GB, or somewhere else that requires it.

    1. Re:Any language is "effective" by your standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes English easy to use and understand is that it is so very redundant. You can miss words, add more, swap many of them around and you can still get the meaning. Like disemvoweling.

    2. Re:Any language is "effective" by your standard by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 3, Informative

      What makes English easy to use and understand is that it is so very redundant.

      And it's not tonal. Mispronounced words are easier to understand, and tone can be use to convey meaning even when the vocabulary is lacking.

  15. Why? by thegarbz · · Score: 0

    "Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?"

    Because despite everyone's assertions it is actually incredibly simple and unremarkable. I sometimes get the feeling that predominantly Americans spend more time stressing over what time it is and when the time actually changes than to actually go about and live their lives.

    It's an unhealthy obsession. God forbid these people ever actually get on a plane or do something else so drastic that can make their clock change by not only 1 hour, but *horror* two hours or more.

    I honestly have no clue what the fuss is about.

    1. Re:Why? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      For me the fuss is that the time everyone I interact with cuts into my sleeping time when it falls back. I'm retired. I live off the clock. Even more so now with streaming video.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. When I was a pre-teen and teen and early tween spending all my time in school and half the rest in front of the TV it was a no-brainer. School and TV were the real biological schedules.The 20 o'clock TV news signaled dinner time for much of my entire country and a media trope compared it to catholic mass.
      Now on my own, unemployed or working a few disparate jobs and no TV - I've been hating time changes the last couple of years. So does a junky friend. (for me TV really took a hit with the analog switch off. I don't really want to buy a meter-wide LCD TV, nor buy an unreliable little tuner box and watch a tiny 16:9 picture on a 4:3 14" TV. and we're now unable to use a small or makeshift antenna)

      Even my phone has no time zones (it has USB, but it's a dumb phone).
      BTW, "gaining a hour of sleep" is nuts. e.g. my computer says it's 12:00, but my phone says it's 1 PM (or rather, 13:00). This means that every day, I've lost an hour. At computer noon it's now dangerously close to night compared to a week before.

    3. Re:Why? by nyet · · Score: 1

      Then you should be fine with eliminating DST time changes, if you are a fan of not "having a fuss".

      Stop fussing.

    4. Re:Why? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with whatever. I'm pretty sure I made that clear. The only thing I don't understand with is how we put a man on the moon yet every six month the people of America* lose their shit over a clock change.

      *And only** people of America. Most of the rest of the world has clock changes too and it barely rates a mention, much less a government debate and multiple news stories.
      **Oh and the 51st state of America known as Australia, because we all love a good "me too" situation.

  16. Sigh by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole point of DST in the first place is otherwise in winter the sun sets at 4:30pm. In the summer, it rises at 4:30am. This is fine for farmers, but for an urban population it's no good. I've lived in a region with no DST and it's silly, in summer the sun sets at 7:30pm. Totally wastes useful daylight. If you want to go back to this system so be it, but it's like there is no awareness of why it was adopted in the first place.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole point of DST in the first place is otherwise in winter the sun sets at 4:30pm. In the summer, it rises at 4:30am.

      You must live in California. I live in Washington state, where these statements are true WITH daylight saving time.

    2. Re:Sigh by theNetImp · · Score: 2

      I live in Japan, we don't do the whole change the clock thing, and you know what I absolutely love it. None of this changing the clock bullshit. A lot of people seem to think that it shouldn't bother people, but some of us do not work on the same schedule as the people during the day, and that change really messes up the schedules of those who have to work those hours. The end of changing the clocks is needed. The hour less daytime in the evening is not that hard to get use too, and honestly in the winter in MA when people are driving westward home from Boston (I use to do this commute every day for 10 years), having that change would be a good thing because right now people drive into the setting sun and it causes a lot of accidents.

    3. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have any awareness of when or why it was adopted. Go read up and then report back.

      Hint - it has absolutely nothing to do with when the sun "sets". That's a convenient lie, but untrue given the history of DST in the US.

      It should be ended - permanently. There is no good reason to keep doing it. There is no argument you can present that would justify it.

    4. Re:Sigh by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Again...sigh. Less daylight means more carbon from wasted lighting and heating energy. Oh, and by the way, it's hour *fewer*, English teacher.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole point of DST in the first place is otherwise in winter the sun sets at 4:30pm.

      In the winter we are on standard time, not daylight saving time.

    6. Re:Sigh by belg4mit · · Score: 3, Informative

      They buried the lead in the summary. They're not just considering an end to DST, but a simultaneous shift from Eastern to Atlantic time zone.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    7. Re:Sigh by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      This what you're saying actually is a matter of your time zone not being properly chosen.

      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    8. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As resident of Maine, and now New Hampshire, and more than halfway up the state, I'd rather stay in EST and just not have the DST change. It honestly doesn't make sense for the change at this point.

      Prior to today, the sun was coming up around 7am, setting just after 6pm. As we approach winter solstice, those will be later, and earlier respectively, until Vernal Equinox. Looking at that, it doesn't make sense to switch at all, since those are the primary time windows where most of society is awake. Even if you drop in latitude, towards the Mass state line, there isn't THAT much deviation. for the time reference to the sun.

      Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont have all been kicking this idea around for better part of a decade. Probably longer...
      The problem is, Maine, can not go it alone if they make a shift it their time zone There's too much commerce between Maine and New Hampshire for Maine, that would, per the discussions, have negative ramifications if Maine were an hour ahead. As for Massachusetts? I don't see any argument that they should change. They're at a lower Latitude, and despite the East West variability for being in the same time zone, at best, the 'Cape' should evaluate if part of it should switch to Atlantic.

      Another consideration would be the 'Eastern Part' of Maine, consider switching to Atlantic TZ. I can see this making the most sense, however it's a VERY tough sell to Mainer's, who, as I am not a native, are loathe to consider change on something like this. Especially if it involves farming, which would be quite a bit affected by that idea.

    9. Re:Sigh by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm a little slow. But can't farmers and the related parts of the entire system just change what time they get up, and stay open?? I don't see anything gained in the fall.

    10. Re:Sigh by caseih · · Score: 1

      Sure, but even farmers have to interact with people in the rest of society who are not getting up early and are staying up late. Anyway, DST has nothing to do with farmers. It's all about summer-time recreation honestly.

      Personally I'd rather stay on DST all year long (which is actually what these states are proposing if you read it... they want to change to Atlantic standard time, which is the same as EDT). I think people would rather have a bit of daylight at the end of the day on a short winter day, than have that light in the morning.

    11. Re:Sigh by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Actually, what he is saying is that it is actually a matter of living north of about the 45th parallel.

    12. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps theNetImp speaks my dialect. Time, like alcohol, is a mass noun and so "less" time is correct. The precision and choice of units does not change that it is a mass rather than a discrete, countable noun. One hour, 3.6 ks, or 3 centi-fortnights less time...

    13. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is moronic, because the only parts of New England that are "properly" in Atlantic Time (if you ignore political borders) are the very eastern parts of Maine, possibly. And even then just barely.

      Thankfully it doesn't matter - time zones are regulated by the federal government (they clearly fall under the interstate commerce clause) and are decided by NIST. States may optionally not observe Daylight Saving Time but they can't change their time zone.

    14. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farmers have always hated DST, and even lobbied against it when it was first proposed, it takes away an hour of light in the morning so they have less time to get their goods to the market in the morning.

    15. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the Old Indian said:

      "Only a White Man could believe that cutting a foot off the top of a blanket and sewing it on the bottom would make the blanket any longer".

    16. Re:Sigh by belg4mit · · Score: 1

      DOT, not NIST

      https://www.transportation.gov/regulations/time-act
      http://timezonereport.com/?page_id=313

      Few people are farmers. The only change to the clock that makes sense if you're not going to stick with the geographical approximation of mean noon, is anti-DST, which is what this proposal equates to. I don't need sunlight at 6AM when I'm not awake, and prefer to not be heading home in the dark at 5PM. I'd welcome the shift, and it seems like many others agree.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    17. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The change in daylight hours varies with latitude. DST might make more sense for northern latitudes which had the most people and industry when DST was invented. These days, population has shifted south, where the length of day changes less.

    18. Re:Sigh by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      The tme zone is chosen pretty well for New England and Eastern Standard Time. All of New England is within the "natural" border of EST, except for a tiny bump on Maine. Ie, they're not more than half an hour off of true solar time during EST. The western EST border strays too far west, but that's a problem for Michigan and the like.

    19. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get up earlier, then. Don't mess with the clocks. The clocks and times are set for a reason. If you want to work an 8-4 day, work an 8-4 day, don't add an hour to the clocks.

    20. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And run your AC much later into the evening.

    21. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again, daylight saving time doesn't save daylight at all, it only moves the (fictional) time daylight happens.

      The extra hour of daylight you "save" by needing to close the curtains while watching TV (or gamin or whatever you do) isn't saved, it's just gone. Instead you get an extra hour in the morning where you need to have the lights on.

    22. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't need sunlight at 6AM when I'm not awake

      Well I do, because my biological clock follows the sun and I'm not well rested if it's dark outside when my alarm clock goes off.

      And I have a boss who would prefer me being well-rested in the morning, rather than in the evening.

      Especially when I'm going to be fixing DST bugs in software written the rest of the year.

    23. Re:Sigh by geoscodin · · Score: 1

      I lived in Hawaii with no DST and was never adversely affected. It gradually gets darker a little earlier every day and then gradually gets lighter a little earlier. What I get on the mainland now is an abrupt change twice a year. Saturday it was getting dark a 6:30 and Sunday -- BAM -- it got dark at 5:30. I'm driving home from work in the dark and it makes things like yard work impossible for a few months. And in 6 months it will suddenly be pitch black when I get up to drive to work. Plus I get up at teh same time every day with an alarm, so twice a year my body has to adjust for the clock change. I much prefer the gradual changes that are hardly perceptible over twice a year extremes that mess with my internal clock and external schedule.

    24. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is the sun setting at 7:30 pm silly or a waste of useful daylight? To me, having the sun rise at 6:30 am while everyone is driving to work is a complete waste of useful daylight. I'd prefer to actually have some daylight left after I get home from work so I can go ride my bike, do some yardwork, or take my kids to the park.

    25. Re:Sigh by Tyrannosaur · · Score: 1

      Why don't you just wake up earlier and go to bed earlier? That is *literally* what happens during daylight saving time anyway

    26. Re:Sigh by imrahilj · · Score: 1

      What you are proposing is not staying in EST, but staying in EST + DST (we were in DST over the summer). That's exactly the same as switching to AST with no DST. I agree that without the change to winter time here in MA, things would be just fine. I am loathing the dark when I leave work, I much preferred going to work in the dark.

  17. About the Only Good Thing... by rally2xs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...of not changing would be making drive-in movie theaters viable in the western part of each time zone. Otherwise, you get off work at maybe 5, drive an hour home or maybe more if you're in this screwed-up area of impossible traffic that is the DC area, and when NOT being exactly on the summer solstice, having just a few minutes to get the lawn mowed (hour and a quarter for the 1 acre here, or 45 minutes for the zero-turn mower I have now), and that's it. Not getting anything else done outside. Walk the dog? Do it in the dark. Have a cook-out? Dark. Rake the leaves? Dark.

    Dark, dark, dark, dark, dark...

    Pee on that. Keep DST, and make the day for something besides sitting in the office and writing code while wasting all the best part of the day for doing stuff outside, then getting home and going broke feeding batteries to the flashlight(s). We can tolerate non-DST in the winter 'cuz its too nippy to enjoy stuff outside anyway, but lets apply roundup to the weeds, spray for mosquitoes, work on our big radio antennas (K8DH here), and everything else outside in the daylight by keeping DST!!!

    1. Re:About the Only Good Thing... by EvilSS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some of the proposals are to stay forever on DST (essentially shift one time zone east) to maintain that daylight year round. Yes it means some dark mornings but it would also mean an end to driving home in the dark at 4:30pm in December for many northern states.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:About the Only Good Thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it normal to start work at 9am? By some standards that's mid-morning. Why not start at 7?

    3. Re:About the Only Good Thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of the proposals are to stay forever on DST (essentially shift one time zone east) to maintain that daylight year round. Yes it means some dark mornings but it would also mean an end to driving home in the dark at 4:30pm in December for many northern states.

      Instead you drive to work in the dark. TANSTAAFL.

    4. Re:About the Only Good Thing... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Dark, dark, dark, dark, dark...

      Pee on that. Keep DST, and make the day for something besides sitting in the office and writing code while wasting all the best part of the day for doing stuff outside, then getting home and going broke feeding batteries to the flashlight(s). We can tolerate non-DST in the winter 'cuz its too nippy to enjoy stuff outside anyway, but lets apply roundup to the weeds, spray for mosquitoes, work on our big radio antennas (K8DH here), and everything else outside in the daylight by keeping DST!!!

      Exactly. I suppose that people who go to work, come home and never step outside except for going to some other inside place don't care, but people who do actually do things can really make use of those extra hours of daylight. Plus the neighbors won't like it if you get up and mow the lawn at 0430.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:About the Only Good Thing... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Some of the proposals are to stay forever on DST (essentially shift one time zone east) to maintain that daylight year round. Yes it means some dark mornings but it would also mean an end to driving home in the dark at 4:30pm in December for many northern states.

      Instead you drive to work in the dark. TANSTAAFL.

      Well it's going to be one or the other. Personally I'd rather have the extra daylight in the evening when I can make use of it.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  18. Start of work day is not fixed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If an activity needs to be tied to solar dawn, the clock start time can be adjusted. Having the government adjust clock time saves effort for users needing to align activities with dawn, and costs everyone else the effort of adjusting to a "non standard" time.
     

    1. Re:Start of work day is not fixed by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This. Imagine if supermarket opening times were posted as "Sunrise plus 27 minutes" or whatever. The one in the next town would say the same and mean something slightly different.

      This is sort of how it was before the railways, in fact. It's just that nobody really noticed as it was a day's walk or a few hours by gee-gee and by the time you got there you'd forgotten why you went.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  19. Meaningless for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The change is meaningless for me because I do not work office hours. Like many technology workers, I have a few bursts of activity during the day (for me, 5% between 7-9AM and 80% between 4-6PM) and the rest of the time in between is for studying problems and personal time.

    If I were a farmer and I needed my product to the market at a particular time, I think that would matter a lot. Farms can't install floodlights. Fishers, maybe a similar problem? I assume products have to hit the market at a particular time in order to make it to scheduled freight departure points. And adjusting all of those schedules to base off of sunrise at the production point would probably be very difficult or impossible to coordinate.

    I am having serious problems figuring out for whom else, this is a real problem. Like, REAL problem that couldn't be changed by simply altering business hours to give employees some sunlight free time.

  20. Atlantic time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The proposal in Maine is a bit different than simply ending DST. Rather it is to stop using DST and move the whole state into Atlantic Time.

    This would mean that the time in Maine would be the same as the rest of the east coast in the warm weather months when tourist arrive from the states to the south and would retain the advantages of later sunsets of being one hour east of the east coast in the winter and not having to go through the ritual of clock shifting.

    1. Re:Atlantic time by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      move the whole state into Atlantic Time.

      I live in the UK - please can we move the whole of the UK to the South Pacific.

      The way things are now, in the summer, its light from 3AM to 10PM,and in the winter its light from 10AM to 4PM. What the hell difference does moving the clocks one hour do apart from pissing us all off.

      PS the cows cant tell the time, even using analogue clocks.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  21. Why even timezones at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is it so everyone can complain about 0900-1700? For global businesses, lack of timezones would be a huge improvement. None of this, when is the meeting.

    1. Re:Why even timezones at all? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      If not time zones, then you're back to "sun time" which is slightly different at each longitude. Try scheduling trains so they're not on the same track heading different directions when the freakin' time is changing with every mile west and east you run. You had to be a mathematical genius to be a railroad engineer back before time zones. Lots of 'em failed, and spectacular train wrecks ensued.

      Try your 6th grade story problem, "Train A leaves Chicago at 5:30 AM traveling 60 mph, Train B leaves New York at 6:30 AM traveling 72 mph. They are traveling toward each other. Where and when do they meet?" Good luck, and prepare to jump...

    2. Re:Why even timezones at all? by _merlin · · Score: 2

      No it wouldn't. Time zones are very helpful, for example when you're trying to set up a reasonable time for a phone call/teleconference, or thinking about when someone will read an e-mail. You can think, "well, they're five hours behind us, so they won't be getting into the office for a couple of hours yet," or, "they're two hours ahead, so they should be just getting back from lunch." You can have a row of clocks showing the time in all your offices and from that have some idea of what part of the day it is.

      Without timezones, you'd have to think about what phase of the day a time corresponds to in another part of the world. It's more work to think through. It's been tried before. You may or may not remember "Swatch Internet Time", heavily promoted starting in 1998. They divided the day into 1000 parts called ".beats" with 0 at midnight UTC+1 and used the same values everywhere. It went nowhere because it just isn't useful.

    3. Re:Why even timezones at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pointless. With a meeting a 4:00 you would have to ask everyone if it is noon, morning, night, actual 4 AM. So you've made the time zone information out of band, what's more countries or large regions would still have to agree to use a common time for business hours etc., or we're back to every single town having its own noon. This changed when we got the train and telegraph mid-19th century.
      The one benefit I can see would be the real time clock in an IBM PC compatible would always be right, unless the battery for the CMOS/RTC chip is dead and then https fails (this shit was a bitch to diagnose! and it will still fail even if time zones are abandoned)

    4. Re:Why even timezones at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, a global singular time like GMT or such.
      One single time based on a full rotation of Earth from any point, the point doesn't matter.

      When's my midday? 12pm.
      When's yours? 7pm.
      The association at the local scale is what matters. You don't need to have work starting at 9pm everywhere every day. It's a dumb convention and is the reason we still have stupid timezones.

    5. Re:Why even timezones at all? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      A sensible meeting software will automatically calculate a given time based on the timezone of your partner and yours, not display "4pm" even though you're in Rome and he's in Sydney.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Why even timezones at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more work to think through. It's been tried before.

      The computational complexity is exactly the same. Homework: prove it.

      In a businesses where time matters, and different parts of the world are involved, UTC is used everywhere, without exceptions (aviation).

    7. Re:Why even timezones at all? by itamihn · · Score: 1

      In the global company where I work we just use EST to schedule meetings and so on.

    8. Re:Why even timezones at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well.. keep UTC and schedule trains by that? At any given location mean solar time just a constant offset from UTC, anyway.

  22. The main benefit of dropping DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fewer pointless posts from Gramer Natsi's.

  23. Re:Sigh, easily solved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    daylight peeks at 16hrs at the start of summer and night peeks at 16hrs at the start of winter.
    for optimal health and hormones, 10pm local/sun time is the ideal bed-time.
    are you saying that simply getting up at 6am all year isn't tolerable for you?
    probably. why else appeal to authority?

    i for one would be fine without dst 'cause going to bed at 9 (for optimum health)
      isn't so great when you have friends.

  24. DST by pz · · Score: 0

    [pedantic]

    DST is Daylight Saving Time.

    Not "savings".

    [/pedantic]

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    1. Re:DST by drew_kime · · Score: 1

      [pedantic]

      DST is Daylight Saving Time.

      Not "savings".

      [/pedantic]

      It was wrong so many times in the summary I'm convinced they're trolling us.

      --
      Nope, no sig
    2. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we saved so much time from it that we can afford to add an extra s in the savings!

    3. Re:DST by PetiePooo · · Score: 1

      @EditorDavid, did you helpfully go through the story submission and "correct" every instance where the submitter used the singular "saving" form? Thanks for that.. my OCD just gave me a seizures.

  25. get up later, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When your 9-5 work day has midday at 1pm not 12, why the fuck do you complain about how getting up earlier makes it too dark in the morning? Just get up later.

    1. Re:get up later, by maroberts · · Score: 1

      What is being complained about is that people would rather have daylight after work has finished. In winter, moving the clocks back removes an hour of daylight from the evening.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    2. Re:get up later, by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The problem is fitting in with everyone else. You know, school, jobs, transport, that kind of shit.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:get up later, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution to that is pretty easy. If everyone has the same concern..

      Make the standard work day 10-6 instead.

    4. Re:get up later, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is being complained about is that people would rather have daylight after work has finished. In winter, moving the clocks back removes an hour of daylight from the evening.

      In Toronto, Canada (43N), in the winter the sun sets at around 4:40 PM Standard ("winter") Time, which would change to 5430 PM if we bumped things. Sunrise is around 8:00 AM, which would change to 9:00 AM. NYC (40N), Chicago (41N), and Boston (42N) are roughly the same.

      These are all "worst case" situations in December (around the solstice).

    5. Re:get up later, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some retard always come up with this shit.
      It's about one million times easier administratively speaking for the government to say 'clocks no longer go back as from October 2020' rather than somehow (how?) persuading all individuals and business to work (say) 10-6 instead of 9-5. Only the truly moronic would fail to understand that simple fact.

  26. This is a one sided bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you consitently breit out stories telling just one side of the argument, you risk being seen as bulls...ters.

    Can we please see a counterpoint - what was the basis to introduce DST? What are the benefits? What does the rest of the world using DST think?

    1. Re:This is a one sided bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The benefit is to retailers and golf courses; it keeps people from staying home in the evening after dark. It keeps getting pushed later and later into the Fall to encourage Christmas shoppers.

    2. Re:This is a one sided bull by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

      It was introduced for the same basic reason anything else gets done: money. Nope I'm not jaded at all.

    3. Re:This is a one sided bull by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The original idea was to conserve energy by having daylight when people are actually awake in Summer.

      In Summer, in Mid/North of Europe or the US, you have daylight from about 4-5am to about 8-9pm. Now, people rarely get up at 4am, and even if they do, they don't really care too much whether it's dark because they go to work anyway and don't need much light to get dressed and go to work. But it was thought that it would be beneficial to not need artificial lighting until about 10pm when most people would go to bed. That way we could "win" an hour of power consumption for lighting.

      No later than when LEDs came along and the power consumption for lighting became an insignificant fraction of our power use, the whole shit became totally obsolete for its original purpose. So we now make up new shit because "It's always been that way, and who made you king that you wish to change it".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  27. LED technology make DST obsolete by Max_W · · Score: 1

    Now the economical LED lamps make electricity savings by the DST ridiculously small if any for the whole hoopla.

    1. Re:LED technology make DST obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dammit, it was originally for ENJOYMENT. It's not really obsolete; it was simply wrecked when the USA spends more time "on" than "off".

      Lets take NZ, smaller country where DST really works (despite the compalints). Lets also presume that you want to go to work in daylight.

      Without DST:
      Winter: Sunrise at 7 am. Sunset at,. say, 6 pm. You leave for work around 7 to get to work by 8 for 8-5. You've now got one hour after work to enjoy sunshine.

      Summer: Sunrise at 5 am, sunset at 8 pm. You still leave for work around 7 to get to work by 8 for 8-5 (because bosses don't want to change.) You now have three hours.

      But.. you think, hey boss, can I start an hour earlier?
      Summer: Sunrise at 5 am, sunset at 8 pm. You still leave for work around 6 to get to work by 7 for 7-4 (because boss is very kind.) You now have four hours. EXTRA HOUR SUNSHINE! WIN!

      Or... you think, hey country, how about we ALL move.. but changing every schedule is hard... so we just move the clock.

      Summer: Sunrise at 6 am (DST), sunset at 9 pm (DST). You still leave for work around 7 to get to work by 8 for 8-5 (because bosses don't want to change and you're on your original schedule.) You now have FOUR hours sunlight to enjoy - and the bosses don't get involved.

      THAT is what DST is really about - enjoyment.

      Obviously, it's very country dependent. Singapore on the equator is basically 6 am to 6 pm year round for daylight, so going forward five minutes doesn't seem useful. Norway is basically 24 hour daylight in summer; which makes a mockery of the idea of saving daylight!

  28. The too short blanket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cannot make a blanket longer by cutting a foot off the bottom and sewing it back on the top end.

    People go to sleep and get up whenever they want. Changing the clocks is retarded.

  29. Standard Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These local time zones made sense when railroads were the standard way of crossing long distances. But those days are long past... and it gives me a headache to look at a flight schedule and think... if the place leaves Rome at x... and its a two hour flight, when should i leave for Birmingham? Personally, using UTC for everything everywhere seems a better reflection of the current state of the globe. It may mean we have breakfast at 02:00 here but so what... its just a number. The habits we layer upon specific values are just that, habits. When it says 12:00 we are conditioned to think of lunch... If I still wore a watch I would want it to show UTC with an adjustable dial for sunrise/sunset -- like the clock on the PC in my observatory. And as for synchronizing appointments... if everyone on the planet used UTC the confusion of local time zones goes away.

    1. Re:Standard Time by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you're fast enough you can land before you leave!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Standard Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In German only the nouns are capitalized. the word for 'I" (ich) is only capitalized if it begins a sentence. The words for "you" (Sie and Du) are always capitalized.

  30. Idiots drew the original time zone maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putting New England (and Quebec) in EST/EDT, presumably to share the same time zone as New York city (because business), did nobody a favor.

    Look at a time zone map and see that EST/EDT is a giant wedge, widest at the top, and squished the Atlantic time zone into a narrow strip. I dunno, maybe they couldn't imagine Connecticut and Long Island in EST/EDT while Massachusetts, Vermont, and New Hampshire – all directly north – in the Atlantic time zone? Or splitting Connecticut and Long Island? And what then if we left poor Maine as the only state in the Atlantic? Can't have that.

    I live in New England. I'd happy switch to Atlantic time regardless of whether we have DST or not. We no longer have a "business reason" to be in the same time zone as NYC, and the Atlantic time zone is the more natural place for use to be when you don't artificially stretch the time zone boundaries. Either that, or put the whole country on one time zone, like China, India, and South Africa. (I can already hear the Conservatards shrieking "are you crazy.")

    (Although I do think DST is silly.)

    1. Re:Idiots drew the original time zone maps by belg4mit · · Score: 1

      The US states alone span GMT-5 to GMT-10, with territories it's GMT-4 to GMT+10.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
  31. It's time for daylight savings to go by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    This whole daylight savings time thing is really a joke. It's time for it to go. The ending of daylight savings time is not so bad but the beginning of it is known to cause more health problems, including heart attack. I don't even know why we ever did it. Some claim that it was to give the farmers more light in the morning. Some claim it is so that school-aged children don't have to wait in the dark for the bus. Let's just get rid of this!

    1. Re:It's time for daylight savings to go by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      The idea is that we should wake up with the sun. There are biological and economic reason for this.
      The problem is that in modern society, we live by the clock, not by the sun. DST is a way to approximate this behavior.

    2. Re:It's time for daylight savings to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "DST is a way to approximate this behavior."
      But permanent DST is no different from permanently changing the working day an hour earlier. And at least in the latter case, midday is still middle of the day. Rather than an hour earlier.

    3. Re:It's time for daylight savings to go by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then I guess in October we should turn our clocks back not only by one but actually 2 hours. Sunrise around here is no sooner than 7am. 8am in December.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:It's time for daylight savings to go by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      you're free to set your alarm clock to the sun's rise

      a school that worries about "children waiting in the dark" (which they will do anyway where I live), can change its opening time once a school year

      letting politicians change the actual time of day is stupid

  32. DST : As long as ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as I can get the crops in during daylight and save candles, I am happy! For everything else, there is hot coffee!

  33. This shouldn't be a difficult decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure why this is such a issue, its really not when at least 80% of people surveyed think it should be abandoned. Its one thing most all American's agree on so why can't we just drop it? Frankly it always had little in statistics to back up continuing it. Days are shorter no matter how you look at it. Most in the medical profession agree that it negatively affects people more then any possible positive that have very little evidence to back that up. This seems like a no brainer to simply stop it. Yet, we seem to have serious problems today recognizing issues and making changes. I've even heard the lame argument we need to keep it just as a reminder to replace batteries in smoke detectors. Even though most now have sealed batteries, or have programed expiration dates and alerts to replace batteries. This is where government could actually do something most agree with and yet don't seem interested.

  34. Re:Daylights savings causes miscarriages? strokes? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    Humans aren't that fucking fragile. I don't believe any of this "harm" shit.

    Jet lag is very real, and it gets worse and worse as one ages. It seems unlikely that there's zero effect at one hour, but then it suddenly kicks in at larger amount of time. If so, then there's some effect. Perhaps trivial in most younger people, but a greater effect with age.

  35. Re:Sigh, easily solved! by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    Bed at 10pm every day? Sure, whatever you say, grandpa.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  36. Re:Daylights savings causes miscarriages? strokes? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    As I've graduated out of my 20's I've noticed I'm a lot, a LOT more sensitive to time changes than I used to be.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  37. Switch to UTC, and Change the Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The whole reason for keeping this stupid bullshit is because of our intransigent 9-5 culture. We waste daylight hours in the morning waiting to go to work, then we don't have any daylight hours left after work to do anything outside.

    Why don't we ditch both problems by having more reasonable working hours? I would happily go to a 6A-3P work schedule if it meant getting rid of DST. So-called "night owls" could do 11A-8P and still have "core hours" for meetings and junk, and do their outside stuff in the morning.

    As it is today, we can't do ANYTHING outside in the winter because it's just barely getting light out when we go to work and it's already dark when we get home.

    1. Re:Switch to UTC, and Change the Culture by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      I second that. Keep "summertime" all year. On the very shortest days nothing would help here(sunset 3:40pm would be 4:40 with summertime) but for a lot of the year you'd get a useful hour of light when you get home.

    2. Re:Switch to UTC, and Change the Culture by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Way ahead of you.

      If you schedule meetings before noon, don't count on me to be there. Or that the next meeting I schedule that involves you will be before 6pm.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  38. wake up earlier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    UK here, winter time is stupid, it gets light before I even wake up and then it gets dark before I'm even on my way home from work. We just changed from BritishSummerTime which made a lot more sense.

    So wake up earlier (which may necessitate going to bed earlier).

  39. adjust time everyday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The correct solution is not to get rid of DST but to fully embrace it.

    We should adjust the clocks everyday to keep N o-clock at sunrise for some specified location in each timezone. This keeps the maximum number of daylight hours after work as possible. When daylight is split on both sides of work, the full time can not be taken advantage. People with jobs can not adjust their own hours to suit daylight, this allows people to maximize the schedule they have to work with.

    By adjusting the time a little each day, we wouldn't have any major jumps that throws our bodies way out of whack.

    As stated on here, most people use the phones or some other time-aware device such that setting the clock forward and backward doesn't apply to them, the clocks are already doing it automatically.

    My preference would be that 7 o-clock be sunrise (obviously this will vary by location in the timezone).

    --XYZZY--

    1. Re:adjust time everyday by PPH · · Score: 1

      Let's just switch to traditional Japanese time.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:adjust time everyday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But remember the old English saying:

      When Adam delved and Eve span, what time is it in Japan?

    3. Re:adjust time everyday by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      A quarter to Revolution.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  40. Wrong Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SAVING .... SAVING .... there is NO "S"

    DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME.

    1. Re: Wrong Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next you'll say there is no s in maths or a in aesthetic or u in labour.

  41. I've already abandoned it by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    I don't switch my clocks, I just switch my work hours. I'll keep my afternoon sunshine thanks.

    1. Re:I've already abandoned it by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I don't switch my clocks, I just switch my work hours. I'll keep my afternoon sunshine thanks.

      There's actually something to that. I travel to the west coast fairly often. If its a short stay, like a week, I simply "stay" on East coast time. For longer stays, my body will force adaptation, but for short trips it avoids jetlag.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  42. Less project more action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm tire to ear this 2 times per year, can you now move on and do it! Not only reporting it 2 times per year.

  43. Let's do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am tired of this crap.

  44. They'll probably get it wrong by mrun4982 · · Score: 1

    and keep it on standard time all year round. What people want is permanent daylight saving time.

    1. Re:They'll probably get it wrong by mark-t · · Score: 1
      How is it wrong for noon to be the point where the sun is highest in the sky?

      Bear in mind that the entire point of timekeeping approximates the sun's position in the sky. Otherwise you might as well suggest that everyone switch to UTC, and abolish timezones completely. As has been pointed out elsewhere by comments in this story, that would be an even bigger headache than DST is.

    2. Re:They'll probably get it wrong by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Really?

      I didn't know I wasn't people.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  45. The whole world should run on UTC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares if some countries would live in the dark? Think of all the benefits: easy to collaborate between two parts of the world, markets running in sync, no need to convert time zones constantly...

  46. Oh Goody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The states will get around to abandoning DST some 15 or more years from now, long after it becomes abundantly clear to nightowls, early risers, 24/7 businesses, farmers, stock traders, and drug addicts that DST is and always has been total bunk. To normal people and who assume that noon always happens around 12:00pm and OS developers who hate having to reset real time clocks a certain way twice a year, their hopes will be dashed, because legislators and other idiots in positions of authority will come up with another equally dumb idea.

  47. Got that Backwards by kjhambrick · · Score: 1

    I would certainly consider abandoning Standard Time but abandon Daylight Saving Time ?

    Not so much.

  48. DST - Australian Argument by bromoseltzer · · Score: 1

    The classic OZ housewife's opposition to Summer Time: "It faids me curtins."

    --
    Fiat Lux.
    1. Re:DST - Australian Argument by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      Bit of a straw man there, easy to attack.

      Why not keep clocks representing the actual local time, and simply make work hours more flexible?

      People want to start work earlier and finish earlier? Do it. Just don't pretend that the sun is in a different location than it is (what with midday really being 11am in a one hour shift daylight savings system).

      I'd consider it similar to people wanting a larger tennis court, but instead of just adjusting the dimensions in meters they adjust how long a meter is.. ridiculous.

  49. Lack of sleep is harmful to your health by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    Without daylight time the sun would kick my ass out of bed at ~3:00 AM during summer months. Most days it would start to get light before I ever bothered going to sleep.

  50. Reason people may like it by pgn674 · · Score: 2

    I have found one logical reason that people may like DST. It normalizes sunrise time through the year, at the expense of extremifying sunset time. Here's a chart showing this.

  51. Get rid of wintertime, and keep our long evenings by KayakFun · · Score: 1

    While in principle you could get up early in the morning and enjoy the sun then, it is much more convenient to enjoy the sun in the evening. So get rid of wintertime and stay on summertime.

  52. The effect of DST in Iowa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will date me, so posting anonymously. When I was a grad student in Iowa and the state started daylight saving time, the Des Moines Register published letters to the editor by folks worried about what the extra sunlight would do to the crops of corn and soy beans. They writers worried that the extra sunlight would burn the leaves and have a negative effect on yield. This brings to mind the statement H. L. Menken wrote, "No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

  53. Why ANY time zones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we hang on to this concept of local time at all? Transportation and communication have made us think globally, so why not have our consistent measurement of time move with that? I don't care if my clock says 02:30 when the sun comes up, or if it's 23:00 when I eat dinner. Time is relative anyway, so why make it more complex than it needs to be? If every time-carrying device on the planet showed the same value, it seems logical to me that coordination would actually be EASIER.

    1. Re:Why ANY time zones? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, it gets a bit unwieldy when you get closer to the international date line. Now, the "next day" is at midnight, with timezones being locked, if you're living close to the IDL your day would change somewhere in the afternoon, 2pm is Tuesday and 3pm is Wednesday... or something like that.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  54. So get everyone up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, instead of saying the working day is 9-5 then occasionally make the clock lie about when those hours are, just change the working day. Instead of being GMT+1, make the working day 8-4. Or if you don't like dark mornings, get everyone to make the working day 10-6. But just stop making the clock lie.

    1. Re:So get everyone up by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The clock saying 9, 9 or 10 is pretty much arbitrary. How can it lie?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  55. yup, i say split the difference by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    instead of setting the clocks back an hour in the fall, we just set them back 30 minutes and then next spring dont change them, and abandon the daylight savings time thing

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  56. Why stop at half-assed solutions? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    We could turn back the clock 6 hours instead of one. That way we go to work when it's still dark and it remains dark for most of the time we're at work, and then when we get out it's about (real) noon and even in Winter we have at least 3-4 hours of daylight left. And in Summer even a whooping 10!

    If the holy grail is to have daylight when you get out of work, why don't you put your time change where your mouth is?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  57. It's daylight saving time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...not daylight savings time.

  58. Idiots should not make decisions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone calling it "Daylight Savings Time" should not be making any decisions regarding Daylight Saving Time.

  59. Re:Get rid of wintertime, and keep our long evenin by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Why stop half way? Push the clock another 5-6 hours forwards, go to work right after Midnight so you can get out around noon and have 4 hours of daylight left in Winter and 10 in Summer!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  60. I hate daylight savings time by VAXcat · · Score: 1

    The extra hour of daylight during the summer really dries out my lawn.

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  61. Proposal: Keep Falling Back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fall back an hour each November, and don't spring forward in April. We all get a little extra sleep.

  62. car accidents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of people have died for daylight savings time. At what point do we say enough is enough.

  63. My dog votes for it's removal by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    He's got feeding time down, then it changes by an hour and confuses him.

  64. Re:Daylights savings causes miscarriages? strokes? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    exercise + nutrition. Get yourself a health coach if you need it.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  65. UTC everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just use UTC everywhere and schedule local events and work hours around daylight hours. Between having time zones and adjusting clocks for daylight saving time, it's not like the time has anything to do with the position of the sun anymore. Between globalization and the expansion of people's social circles into other time zones, I think if it's just easier to say the local work day is from 3:00 to 11:00 than to deal with figuring out the offset between my self and wherever my friends and colleagues happen to be (especially if people are traveling around at the time).

    I know this sounds crazy, but short of civilization collapsing, it's only going to become less crazy with each passing year.

    1. Re:UTC everywhere by dougTheRug · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is you will need a chart to tell you what time of day it is elsewhere. It matters because you don't want to make a work call with someone when they are likely asleep. The effort of all the charts would be the same as using time zones.

    2. Re: UTC everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need a time so chart today so whatâ(TM)s the diff?

  66. Standard time sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I donâ(TM)t know what the hell this article is taking about. Getting rid of standard time or daylight savings time.

    I hate standards time. And it would be better to keep daylight savings time as the new standards. After all, standards time is only 4 months. Nov, dec, Jan, feb.

  67. Repeal it! by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    Best idea about DST comes from an old Indian... Only government would think you could cut a foot off a blanket, sew it onto the top, and have a longer blanket. It's a PITA to deal with, serves no useful purpose anymore, other than during the summer giving people more after work time to "play". GET RID OF IT!

  68. Many US States Consider Abandoning Daylight Saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be best to just have kept the clocks on daylight time permanently. That would give an extra hour of daylight for the evening commute. An extra hour of daylight in the evening is more useful than an added hour in the morning.

  69. solar noon seems wrong by execthis · · Score: 1

    It's also a mistake to have 00:00 set to midnight. Midnight doesn't seem like the end/start of a day. Midnight "feels" like late night of the same day. That is reason enough to have ordination of a day's hours not reset at midnight.

    04:00 or 05:00 are much more logical choices for the start of the day (thus setting 00:00 to be either one of them).

    I think setting 00:00 to what actually constitutes the reasonable start of a day matters. For example, if 00:00 is set to 04:00 and you start work at what is now 08:00, that would be 04:00. That gives you a reasonable understanding that you start work 4 hours into the new day. When you get off work at what is now 17:00 it would be 13:00. That also gives you a reasonable understanding that you have 11 more hours left in your day.

    1. Re:solar noon seems wrong by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      It's also a mistake to have 00:00 set to midnight. Midnight doesn't seem like the end/start of a day. Midnight "feels" like late night of the same day. That is reason enough to have ordination of a day's hours not reset at midnight.

      I'm slightly amused how in typical Slashdot fashion everyone picked up on my factual error (messing up the solar with the stellar day; btw guys, thanks for the correction, my mistake) but not on the crux of my argument that the way we tell time is largely arbitrary, as your post nicely points out. I don't see the difference, in terms of accuracy and in relation to physics, between calling noon 12 o'clock and calling it 8 o'clock as in your suggestion. Having said that, I don't really see the practical difference, in the same sense, between solar noon falling at 12 or at 1 (or 11). Numbering the hours is just a convention in the end. I mean, why even a 24 hour clock? Why not metric time or decimal time? Again, just a convention that has stuck around.

      Knowing that, there is nothing wrong with slightly manipulating these conventions (like having "permanent" DST) in order to achieve something we find desirable (like more daylight hours in the afternoon and evening, which is suitable for a mostly urban population that does not rise at the crack of dawn but mostly works 9-5).

    2. Re:solar noon seems wrong by execthis · · Score: 1

      How many times have you written a journal entry late at night at the end of your day, but it's past midnight already and so you have the conundrum of writing things like "today I ..." or else "yesterday I...".

      Writing "yesterday I..." at say 01:00 just seems stupid. It is, for all intents and purposes, the same day. It is still today.

      Anyone who has stayed up until dawn has also realized that sometime around 04:00 or later it really does feel like a new day. The beginning of the new day should occur at a time before either astronomical or nautical twilight, but not too much before. Maybe one logical way to define it would be the point of astronomical twilight on solstice at some reference location.

  70. Obvious solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Set fixed times for both sunrise and sunset locally and adjust time pacing accordingly. This way you always have optimal lighting when go to work and getting back. As a bonus, depending where you live and what time of year is, time can really fly at work sometimes.

  71. As several other posters also clarified... by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    I have spoken to a lot of Americans online about daylight saving and over the years the most idiotic thing I've discovered is a large portion of daylight saving haters, actually hate "normal" time when it turns to winter. They actually prefer DST, all the time....

    They just don't realise the difference between the two, and I've found quite a few complaints like this. Kind of ridiculous.

  72. Re:Get rid of wintertime, and keep our long evenin by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

    This. If you're going to abandon the natural basis of time where the sun is at its highest at 12, then feel free to use any arbitrary system. For example, use the alphabet instead of numbers. Or maybe, just maybe, keep the time itself as-is and (omg) change your own schedule instead.

    Since the DST proponents often talk about getting an extra hour of sunlight for free, why stop there? Let's have something like 24 hours of DST, so we can have a whole extra day for free, and not mess up our sleep cycles.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  73. Confessions of a Daylight Savings Skeptic - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not too long ago, my home state was one of the few locations in the entire country which did not observe daylight savings time. Like with most other decisions made by my state, we were considered backwards for abstaining from the bounty of progress that daylight savings purportedly represented for so long. When the decision finally came down twelve years ago to finally embrace daylight savings, it was a controversial one. Now I understand why.

    Really, I couldn't love it more.

    At first I was very skeptical about whether or not daylight savings time would actually produce any sort of benefits for myself or anyone else, and I thought it was pretty foolish for everyone to have to adjust their clocks twice a year to accomplish something that could have been done in the scheduling office instead of the legislature. In that particular regard my views have not changed - I still think that it's best left up to individual businesses whether or not to change their hours according to the season. However, after experiencing it for the first time, I was immediately struck by how powerful the illusion created by daylight savings was, and how in a very real way, it improved my quality of life. That is, until autumn rolled around, daylight savings ended, and I was immediately plunged into what seemed like an eternity of darkness. I couldn't wait until it was time to 'spring forward' again, even if it meant losing sleep. Observing the so-called extra hour of daylight (really just the act of beginning and ending your day's activities an hour early) changed my routine in a way that allowed me to enjoy the daylight hours more, get more outdoor activities done, and made life during the warmer months generally more pleasant. Even into the early days of fall, when days are rapidly shortening, the benefits are profound.

    So why end it at all? Why not keep daylight savings time all year long? Especially in winter, when the early sunsets mean leaving work in the dead of night for most people. So what if the sunrises are an hour late? The sun already rises after grownups are at work and children are at school in the dead of winter anyway! In my town at least, there would be virtually no negative consequences at all and plenty of benefits to observing daylight savings time year-round. My skepticism surrounding the topic of daylight savings has been completely broken, to the point where, although I once dreaded the idea of it, I now can't get enough of it.

    Here's the tricky part, though. If everyone were to adjust their business hours according to 'God's time' so that everything they scheduled were to take place an hour early, there would be no need for daylight savings at all. For businesses where year-round observance really would be inconvenient, they can just... change their hours seasonally. Maybe they could even taper it so the impact on employee health and morale is less dramatic, or even just not do it at all. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks, and none of the controversy. No legislation about clocks, no biannual two weeks of hell for most people. Even for folks like me who have been converted into daylight savings believers (and there are plenty of such people,) the clock changes are almost a deal-breaker, but if the benefits to observing daylight savings are as obvious as they seem to be to the majority of my peers, why is it so difficult to just adjust business hours accordingly without the need for good ol' DST?

    I love daylight savings, but I don't understand the need for it. Make the ol' nine-to-five an eight-to-four and you're golden.

  74. Noon. Midday. Middle of day. Ring a bell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because guess what? With DST noon is no longer midday. No longer 12. It's 1pm. POST MERIDIAN.

    Comprehension arriving yet?

  75. device with no UI for post-install timezone change by tech-law-ny · · Score: 1

    http://www.eileendonoghue.org/... has no mention of IT costs - it apparently assumes there's always a simple supported process like "Control Panel > Date and Time > Change time zone" that the government could announce to all citizens. The reality may be bleak. For example, I own several IoT devices that required me to choose a timezone at initial setup, and I suspect a huge fraction of device owners would never successfully reconfigure them for a different timezone. Two apparently have no UI at all for that (the easiest way is to root it and make a manual /etc/localtime change). In other cases, the device owner needs to remember the admin password and/or find the documentation to learn where that UI feature is hidden. People will simply give up, either discarding the device or living with a wrong time display for months. Also, it can be much worse than just a wrong display, such as devices configured to open up physical security controls between 9 AM and 5 PM local time.

    It's no longer 2007 (the last time the government mucked with DST). IoT is here. Changing DST now will litter the northeast U.S. with literally millions of insecure or otherwise broken devices.

  76. What's the delay? by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 1

    Why is ending this twice-yearly idiocy even remotely controversial?

    Kill it. Kill it with fire.

  77. It is Daylight Saving Time People! by WindowsStar · · Score: 1

    It is Daylight Saving Time not Daylight Savings Time. Not sure why people still get that wrong with the internet all around us to help us check things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... I am for Daylight Saving Time all year round.

  78. The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once you realize it noon is not really the middle of the day it doesnâ(TM)t matter what time it is. Time is a construct of man.
      I propose that all time zones be eliminated in the entire planet simply switch to GMT. Get up and go to work or school when you need to.

  79. All or nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a Rhode Islander, having Mass on another time zone would be an absolute nightmare. It makes no sense for them to go it alone, the New England states are just too small and we are ALWAYS crossing each others borders. That said, if all of New England decided to switch to no DST, I'd be happy to be rid of it.

    But then Central and Eastern CT are pretty dependent on the NY City metro area. What a mess!

  80. Re:Sigh - It is not farmers by will_die · · Score: 2

    If you go an look into the reasons we still have the time change it is not farmers. They were actually the only people who have organized against it because it messes up the time schedule of animals and they want the sunlight at the end of the day during the fall months.

  81. Re:device with no UI for post-install timezone cha by will_die · · Score: 1

    So a boon to the economy as people have to throw away all the unpatchable IoT and replace them with ones that can handle a change in the timezones.

  82. All Trump's Fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So did CNN report that Trump supports DST, and now all of the blue states have to ban it?

  83. Someone Benefits from Daylight Craving Time by andywest · · Score: 1

    Businessmen — the wealthy magnate kind — want extra time for their golf games and extra time to extract more work from their underlings. So they talked magic felafel to the politicians and, ta-da!, we're stuck moving our clocks every March and November for their benefit. (Hoosier politicians resisted the felafel until Someone Else's Man Mitch got it enacted in 2006.)

    --
    --- Andy West http://andywest.org
  84. While we're at it... by fropenn · · Score: 1

    Let's get rid of time zones, too. Totally unnecessary. I'll eat when I'm hungry. I'll go to work during the day, and sleep when it's dark. Clocks are arbitrary and it would save us so much headache if we could just pick a single time and go for it.