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Linux Pioneer Munich Confirms Switch To Windows 10 (techrepublic.com)
The German city of Munich, once seen as a open-source pioneer, has decided to return to Windows. Windows 10 will be rolled out to about 29,000 PCs at the city council, a major shift for an authority that has been running Linux for more than a decade. From a report: Back in 2003 the council decided to to switch to a Linux-based desktop, which came to be known as LiMux, and other open-source software, despite heavy lobbying by Microsoft. But now Munich will begin rolling out a Windows 10 client from 2020, at a cost of about Euro 50m ($59.6m), with a view to Windows replacing LiMux across the council by early 2023. Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS, and will also reduce costs associated with running Windows and LiMux PCs side-by-side.
by all other Linuxers!
Really, it's just easier to run and maintain Windows on the desktop for the vast majority of people. I use Linux purely on servers, as the desktop experience is pretty sub-par, probably due to the lack of a single focused direction. When I last used the desktop, different apps and desktops used different hotkeys for things as simple as cut and paste, which is ridiculous. Linux for servers and OSX/Windows for desktop is a great setup.
Guile theme rolling
The best chance Linux has of taking of is when support for Windows 7 ends in 2020.
But it won’t just like it didn't when XP support ended or when Vista bombed out. But, hey, this time it’s gotta work, right?
What honestly do you do in Linux that is easier or more convenient than it would be to use Windows 10? Apart from running services like Apache, MySQL etc, which I personally find easier in Linux, for any desktop use there's nothing about Linux that seems better. Driver support is generally worse, there's less support for games (and no, running them in a degraded way in WINE is not an option). I tend to run a Linux server as a VM under Windows 10 - I've NEVER experienced a crash in years of using Win 8/10, either...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.
I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform (Mint 18.1 right now, but I was a slacker...slackware for most of the time, I just grew old and didn't want to spend endless time finetuning everything), but I use windows 10 for my gaming pleasures, and at work we use windows 10 too (I work at a HUGE worldwide company now), and it doesn't suck. In fact, I'd wager that after 1 year...windows 10 actually kinda rule. It's easy to use, it's not ugly, it's functional, it's not breaking down every second day, it's fairly well protected and it actually just work. I'm a fan already, but it was a long road, because at home - I'm one of those 50+ something that still is a gaming freak, I have the latest hardware as always (1080Ti graphics card, and the latest i7 generation motherboard and processor), and on windows 10 it just doesn't suck. Not even at work, where we have MUCH less hardware, we're using vanilla Dell laptops with i5 processors, SSD storage devices, and D6000 Dell docking stations with 3 screens connected, works like a charm every day.
So yeah, I totally get it - if it works perfectly, if it runs smooth every day, if I don't have to concentrate on my freaking setup every day...but can concentrate just on my job - then I'm all for it!
Good job MS, for once!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
The did about the most dumb thing possible: They blamed Linux for their dysfunctional organization. They will have pretty much the same problems after the move with some new ones on top. And the only sane alternative, moving everything to web-apps, was not even considered.
What happened here is that the ones in charge let themselves be bought by MS.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
If that was the best they were able to pull off with Linux over all of that time, the switch to Windows is going to be a complete mess. It will be fun to see them spin it as positively as they can while trying to conceal all of the problems they encounter.
To do a quick financial audit of the officials making this decision.
Lobbying is really just another term for paid bribes.
I suspect someone got paid off big time.
Seems to me that is the only way that spending $59.6 Million on windows could be seen as a method of reducing costs.
First law of people: People are generally stupid.
While no one but the actual deciders know for sure, but I'd be more than willing to step out on the limb and say: This has absolutely nothing to do with Linux or Windows fitness for the job. They've been doing it for 10 years now, I'm pretty confident any bumps were long ironed out and everything works pretty decently.
Just as TFA said, Microsoft had been lobbying heavily. Never said they stopped. Obviously they kept at it, and finally got their foot in the door. Greed seems to be on a helluv a winning streak in our society.
MS moved its base in Germany to Munich. Subsequently, Munich had a new election for the city council. Surprisingly, the new major decided that Linux does not work and that there are too many security restrictions with Linux. This is what effective lobbying can do for you. Still other cities and towns go in the the other direction.
The best chance Linux has of taking of is when support for Windows 7 ends in 2020. Under this plan they could end up switching to Windows 10 just as Linux begins to gain ground.
I for one won't be using Windows 10 and slowly transitioning my PCs to Linux Mint, and I think a significant number of computer enthusiasts will do the same. I'm finding Linux Mint to be very usable and to meet most of my needs. I may need to keep one Windows PC around for a while longer, but hopefully I'll find a way to get rid of that.
"I'm finding Linux Mint to be very usable and to meet most of my needs."
That has been my experience, and that exactly sums up the problem in Munich. Linux met most of their needs, but not all.
Who among us has a job description that lets us "meet most of the needs" of the job.
Linux in the server room, Windows on the desktop.
In the past decade Linux on desktop/laptop use has gone from 0.8% to ~2%. At this rate it'll only take about 900 more years to totally replace Windows on the desktop.
can bide their time and wait for either the latest bribe to work, or for a more "compatible" decision-maker to be installed. And now Microsoft can falsely claim that the Linux experiment was a disaster and Munich is returning to quality MS software, which is nonsense.
Yeah, nerds don't want to admit that Microsoft have actually improved their products in the last 20 years. Meanwhile, on the Linux side of things, we got Ubuntu. *shudder*
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
That's a bone headed comment. Linux desktop use has more than doubled in the past ten years. Android is the worlds most used OS, running a Linux kernel.
Almost all of my work is done on Linux servers. I currently administer about 1,000 physical and 6,000 virtual Linux servers. No question that Linux is superior to all other OSes for what I do. At the office, my laptop is OSX based and my desktop is Windows 10. Linux desktop is craptastic and a waste of time. There I said it, I'm ready for the downvotes coming from the zealots. I tried various desktop Linux distros and ended up back with OSX or Windows. The productivity drain and compromises were not worth it.
The best chance Linux has of taking of is when support for Windows 7 ends in 2020. Under this plan they could end up switching to Windows 10 just as Linux begins to gain ground.
I for one won't be using Windows 10 and slowly transitioning my PCs to Linux Mint, and I think a significant number of computer enthusiasts will do the same. I'm finding Linux Mint to be very usable and to meet most of my needs. I may need to keep one Windows PC around for a while longer, but hopefully I'll find a way to get rid of that.
I think this was the plan in 2003.
Realistically Linux has been my desktop since 2001, and in the last 10 years the only things that have a major impact on my day-to-day experience are the support for Netflix and Steam.
Maybe a few more home enthusiasts will start jumping on board (Netflix and Steam are huge for the home experience), but considering that Apple has largely been expunged from the corporate environment I don't see how Linux is suddenly going to break in.
The future of corporate is Windows desktops. Maybe the desktop can be dislodged by phones, tablets, dumb net terminals, or some future tech, but no one is kicking them off the desktop.
I stole this Sig
In the case of gnope, every release either breaks something, or takes away some functionality that distributions have to excessively patch in order to give some consistency to their userbase. And kde has never been more buggy. Just when a version starts to get stable, they ditch it and start over. The whole Linux mantra of "release early and release often" just doesn't work for desktops (or phones for that matter). Users want consistency and stability, which neither gnome or kde give them.
I've been responsible for deploying vast numbers of desktops for years, both Mac and Linux. This smacks of the owners of the purse strings being wined and dined. This Linux deployment really stuck in Microsoft's craw when it happened and they have never forgotten it. It seems to me, and I've had the unfortunate experience of having to work with people from Microsoft, they seem to have a sense of entitlement to any and every large desktop deployment scenario, especially when it comes to the government. Gov contracts are lucrative and everyone knows it, and they tend to be re-negotiated. Microsoft software is generally sub-par all things considered. I far prefer working with open source software or Apple stuff.
Again, I've personally deployed more desktops than I can remember, and for the last few years, it's been Mac and Linux only. I will never again recommend Windows for any reason unless the software is so vertical that there are zero alternatives. When this happens, I usually will not contract out for it, but will recommend people that will. I've lost money over the years, but dealing with Microsoft and their licensing and technical support is dealing with pillars of intransigence. No thank you. Apple and Canonical are far easier to deal with.
Microsoft and the intels of the world congratulate you! Happy stolen data, Munich!
It seems very many schools are using Chromebooks, which must be described as Linux Desktops.
Linux will not beat Windows or OS X on their own game. But they can win another game.
Thank you for articulating so well why desktop Linux is such a shambles. People have been saying similar things for two decades but all you get is abuse and denial of the many things wrong with it.
It is astounding to see the number of controversy theorists in the comments talking about lobbying and bribed officials. Does it really hurt your ego to accept that for a particular organization of a particular scale and type, Linux might not be the best option ?
I am a research scientist. I spend my time analyzing large amounts of microscopy data in Python, R etc. on very capable hardware. But you know what I found ? Windows 10 does fine. Everything works. I have no reason to use Linux. I went from Linux all the time, to dual-booting Linux just in case I needed it, to Windows all the time in 10 years.
Of course, I have an Android phone and a Chromebook....so I do use Linux (technically). The tremendous success of Android and Chromebooks (or MacOS) should be an obvious indication that there is nothing wrong with the Linux kernel or the Unix/BSD/POSIX standard. What is wrong with Linux distros is that they don't simply work reliably. And Windows 10 does. It isn't 98 or Vista. MS might be evil but with Windows 10 they delivered a good product. They delivered exactly what people wanted. They even included a Linux VM now. Google took the Linux kernel and delivered good products that were reliable and easy to use and did what everyone expected them to do.
So please, there IS something lacking in Linux desktop distros. Drivers, apps, reliabilty etc. depending on whatever flavor you are using. The world is not full of fools and charlatans who like to give away money to MS. People see tangible value in Windows 10. Better that the distro makers learn what they can from Windows 10. Don't be like Mozilla. Make the Linux equivalent of FF Quantum if you want to stay competitive.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
"Release new products early, then release updates to them often" is great for users.
"Release new products early and release their complete replacements often" is bad for users.
The Linux community does the second, rather than the first.
Instead of this for a single tool, library, application, or environment:
10.0 this month
10.1 next month
10.2 the month after that
10.3 the start of next year
Linux does this for a single tool, library, application or environment:
10.0 this month
2017.3.51 next month
Project Congo Free the month after that
Project Riga 29.6 Base the start of next year
The releases are often enough... but sadly each release often has so little to do with the last that users, packagers, and integrators are starting over each time.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS
I can fully understand why. I've been using Linux on and off for over a decade and a half, even paid for SuSE!!!!. I've run Linux Mint on a Thinkpad for a few years, no problems. Decided to put it on my desktop. Only problem is I have a NVIDIA Geforce 1060 GTX graphics card. Little did I realise just what an absolute nightmare it was going to be even to just get the Live DVD to boot to a GUI. Ended up having to re-enable onboard Intel Graphics just to be able to boot the live distro and install it. I then wasted an hour and a half of my life doing lots of HDMI swapping and rebooting trying the various suggested solutions to get the installed OS running with a GUI on the Geforce 1060. I did manage to achieve it which was more by luck than design but then I updated the graphics driver and bam, broken again.
So after an hour and a half of trying to do what should be a very simple job which had never been a problem in the past on my old desktop with an older version of Mint running a NVIDIA 9600GT and which had never ever been an issue on the various NVIDIA cards I've had since I'd run Linux from the days of RH6.3 I booted into Windows and ran bootsect /nt60 c: /mbr
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
This is something that often gets lost on Slashdot. People are so busy complaining about privacy (which the average user can't give a crap about), or lost work because you haven't saved your work for the night and ignore the notifications that an update is pending (which the average user can't give a crap about), and all the talk about start menus and control panels (which the average user can't give a crap about) to realise what has actually changed under the hood.
In the mean time we have an OS that in its current iteration is incredibly stable (no, not things like the on screen keyboard not popping up, but rather no reboot forcing crashes), relatively well protected (very few attacks go directly for the Windows OS now because of it) and even has similar active protective features to SELinux.
Under the hood it's faster than the previous versions, more capable out of the box, actually works as a tablet OS (not that I imagine most people here will care), and in general end users don't really care much about it, neither for nor against.
Shame about the privacy aspects.
Agreed. I use Ubuntu on dozens of servers, I have a dual-boot Ubuntu partition on my Thinkpad. It works well for servers. It works well for embedded. It doesn't work well on the desktop. There are too many applications I need to use on a regular basis that are either Windows-only or just plain better under Windows. Heck, Ubuntu is built into Windows at this point with the WSL. I run Linux applications side-by-side with Windows applications on my desktop with *no virtualization or emulation required*. You can't do that under straight-up Ubuntu. Windows 10 is fast and secure. It sounds though that in this case, the real driver is Office. And I'm not surprised. I have people send me spreadsheets all the time in .xlsx format, and a lot of them are either unreadable by Excel or load with errors. Sometimes they're from LibreOffice, but most of the time they're from Google Sheets.
Okay, working with a few groups that have to keep confidential data and medical data secure I can say that Windows 10 sends out data routinely that you cannot shut off that people working with such data can't afford to have leaving the organizations part of whose mandate is to protect that data. Moving to windows will probably introduce problems, is unlikely to fix any, and with Windows 10 (they can get Windows 7) they are sending out citizen data to a foreign power. (The USA loves this). This was recognized by China who told Microsoft point blank they were required to make a special China version of Windows 10 that would not send data to a foreign power. Microsoft of course said "yes" to this. If it got out that private public data was being sent directly to a foreign power, the German people would be up in arms. Germany's privacy laws are more strict than most countries. If they insist on this experiment (which will be a death march, just watch), they should at least use Widows 7.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
XP had a viable replacement in Windows 7. Windows 7 does not have a viable replacement.
Also, Linux has improved considerably. At the time Vista came out Linux wasn't a viable operating system for most people. Now it's perfectly viable for the majority of people, but unfortunately most people just use what comes with their PC.
But highly-modified versions of Linux runs on supercomputers! Ipso facto the Linux desktop is perfect!
All Operating Systems sucks, trademarked words in it does not make it suck less. :-)
I've only had a couple of thousands desktop Linux and Windows clients under my control back in the day, and it really is no difference at least moneywise, it is easier to do hires for Windows as long as you pay the senior guy enough to keep him. Happily I've heard that out sourcing is working pretty well on the Windows side so it's going to be a lot cheaper than Linux soon.
Linux might not be for you and your environment, but that doesn't mean it sucks more than your prefered variant.
I think the point is they're easier for users. For actual IT departments, my experience is Windows is at best no easier than *nix, and in some ways a great deal worse (I much prefer plain text readable config files to registry files, though sadly XML is invading the *nix config world too). The one thing I've always loved about working in *nix environments is that if I want to do some significant configuration changes to the OS or a daemon, I can literally go "cp whatever.conf whatever.conf.bak" try out my changes and if they don't work I can quickly restore original functionality. It's possible to do the same thing in Windows by saving keys, but it's a pain in the rear, requiring the regedit application as an intermediary.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
All things you named are not Linux, except for Linux. The pedantic GNU/Linux naming convention that Stallman is so adamant about is not so pedantic in the face of your kind...
So they talk about a municipal government choosing between Linux and Windows and your best argument is "Windows is better for gaming"?
* Not having my clickpaths uploaded. ...
* Not having MS permanently listening in via microphone!!
* Not having to deal with *manual* software package management in freaking 2017! (No, "apps" do not count, msi is not package management, and the Windows Update default drivers are useless crap.)
* Not having to install antivirus, a firewall, a spyware scanner, a trash cleaner, a bearable editor, calculator, file manager, image viewer, media player, browser, etc to get out of lowest-common-denominator hell. (Most of those actually being open source and/or originally Linux software.)
* Not being insulted by being treated like a retard at every possible instance.
* Actually seeing what is a button and what is just a caption.
* Plus you can't even choose which launcher or window manager or widget kit etc you want to use.
And don't even try "But you can disable those". Yeay, only for MS to enable them again at the next forced update! They should not exist in the first place! How spineless of a deluded livesstock does one have to talk oneself into finding that acceptable?
* Driver support is generally *better* under Linux. I had to install freaking XP in a VM, just to get the scanner to work! Ditto for any not that new hardware!
* And bringing up games in a discussion bout city administration PCs is such a cheap shot Especially with games generally running *quicker* under Wine, and Mesa supporting DirectX now, and the whole argument being circular reasoning anyway. Since the games industry *chose* to not support Linux even thou that is very easy, "because" "nobody games under Linux". Yeah, no shit, when you are deliberately boycotting it!
I bet you are one of those morons who not only can't shell script, but do not even understand why GUIs are not superior.
(Aka you are not a computer user, aka somebody who automates his work away, but a user of hard-wired app(liance)s that happen to use a computer.)
My GF and my grandma use Linux since ~1.5 years ago, and that is the first time I haven't heard any complaints from them anymore.
(Plus I can remote in through a properly encrypted tunnel, not that Teamviewer shit that goty GFs system hacked.)
I use both. Both suck.
The difference:
1. I don't pay anything for one.
2. If it's broke I can fix it, they won't.
3. Revenue vs Utility.
Out.
But are they? When support for XP finished I switched over the living room to CentOS with gnome 2. Mrs Hog, not the most tech savvy person on the planet, didn't notice the difference.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You haven't set up an alias or created a shellscript to do that, and created a right click function in nautilus actions? Sure you aren't a Mac user?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Generally they are, but Lennart Poettering pulls the average down quite a bit.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Looking at how LiMux was botched one has to stand in awe and amazement over the sheer incompetence with which the project was driven against the wall. I'd love to wrap those responsible into barbed wire and shoot them into the sun. That would be a gain for humanity.
Meanwhile Schwaebisch Hall has done the transition to Linux just fine. And without all the press and drumming.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Try pushing that change out to several thousand desktops, all running different version of linux/DE, when only some of them are online at any one time.
AD rules for managing this sort of stuff, fanbois cries aside, linux had nothing comparable.
They got in on the hype but the hype did not live up. The Linux desktop is for hobbyists only, never forget that.
Hopefully, nobody else will try this again. This is all taxpayer money being wasted, after all...
It sounded like Munich was having driver problems with new hardware, which has always been a huge thorn in the side of Desktop Linux users.
Hell, I still frequently run into issues getting XOrg to determine the correct native resolution of several monitors that I've recently used, an issue that I almost never see on Windows anymore.
Clearly. That’s why Microsoft is bankrupt and defunct because no one pays them, right?
Some people have argued that Linux does not work out for bureaucracies, civil servants or "large organizations". That made me laugh.
The French Gendarmerie (miltarized police) switched to Linux. But the organization was different. For example in lieu of bitching about non microsoft word processors not being compatible enough with whatever version of microsoft word, they dropped the proprietary formats and went to the .odt format. So, microsoft incompatibilities are not their problem anymore.
Because they made choices. And it worked out for them. A wikipedia summary here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
P.S. I sense an army of astroturfers on this topic, you guys aren't good at what you are doing.
You heard it here, folks - 2020 will finally be the year of the Windows Desktop!
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
I tried windows 10.
It now has ads in the start-menu - not sure is improvement.
The issue with the average user and linux isn't with the every day use of the system. Standard program interactions, browser, email, word processor, are largely the same. The problem comes when having to do anything beyond day to day activities.
Aren't you just putting put a straw man and cutting it down? The first time I saw a stable Windows machine was when I ran Win2k RTM. The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:
1) Runs Windows applications including DirectX
2) At least 10 years of security patches (like XP and Win7)
3) No other "features" like telemetry etc.
I'd be ready to buy and so would a lot of other people, I imagine. As an OS, I don't really know what more you can ask. The problem are all the anti-features, I'm on my Win10 aka my gaming box right now. I'm cool with that, it's closed source software and I'm probably tracked to high heaven in-game too. If it's streaming or whatever that's okay too. I just wouldn't trust it with anything important or private, as far as I'm concerned whatever I do on Win10 is broadcast to Microsoft. Since they like to reset my preferences, I can't trust any setting I make to actually stick. And you got six months before they start nagging you again to upgrade to whatever new stunt Microsoft wants to pull.
To be honest, I don't really look forward to migrating back to Linux (yes, been there done that used it as my main desktop for 3.5 years), there was always some issues you'd fiddle with and I'd rather just pay someone money to get that polish and be done with it. I'm just going to do it anyway because of Win10, how much grief it gives me doesn't really matter. But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Mrs Hog, married to a Slashdot nerd
FTFY.
Nerds whining that 'my wife', 'my grandma', 'my son's third grandfather's cousin three times removed to the second power' is utterly meaningless.
There's a reason Linux has shit for market share outside the server realm. (In before zealots claim Android is some sort of victory for LEENUCKZ ON TEH DESKTOP.)
and use this to their advantage. Sort of a reverse of what Amazon's doing right now with their 2nd headquarters.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I'm not sure I see where the viability of Linux is really that different between the era of Vista and now (W10).
Ubuntu was out way back when. KDE 3.x was a fine desktop environment. It was beating out Lindows/Linspire for Linux for the average Joe. (And SUSE, and Mandriva).
At the time I was running Xandros 3. A well polished distribution which met my needs at the time, it might have become the go to transitionary distribution.
The whoops something happened screen also now has a smiley face, and a QRCode to direct you to the generic Whoops something happened webpage!
I actually agree with this.
I got tired of updating Ubuntu and having to fix whatever mess prevented the OS from booting, such as it forgetting or failingto properly detect whatever my interface my hard drive was using. Got tired of staring at a recovery command line prompt and trying to remember how to remount the file system with read and write privileges to fix the dist-upgrade.
Add to that the fact that my iTunes library and Steam library were in Windows Vista, and I just gave up on Ubuntu. (After having switched to Linux as my primary OS during the XP era.
Not entirely incorrect though. There are those who would indeed rather pirate Windows than use a free alternative. Not myself of course, though most of the machines I've used have been branded with a Windows COA.
But are they? When support for XP finished I switched over the living room to CentOS with gnome 2. Mrs Hog, not the most tech savvy person on the planet, didn't notice the difference.
That's cute. You are browsing the web just like I am on Ubuntu right now.
I decided drunk last night to give Linux a shot again on my PC as a native OS and not a VM. I plan to do fedora Mate 27 next.
Now, for the non-nerds can your Linux install (outside of your living room TV in the workplace) do Free/Busy on Exchange/Outlook for the PHBs? Can they schedule Skype meetings in Evolution or Thunderbird? Can they run SAP? How about the senior directors run WebEX for those in the federal German Government? Can Linux run ancient IE 6 and 7 sites written last decade before web standards took off? Can the smartcam just work for the above scenarios?
Can LibreCalc run the megaStat add-on for Excel? Can it do all of the Excel functions? Can the I.T. department managing 3,000 PCs with some off, some on, some in different configurations on Active Directory? Can the I.T. department create a Group Policy to lock down some clients with sensitive information? Can NFS support ACL (access control lists) with nested groups easily for permissions? Can the I.T. department automate a MASS installation whether computers are on or off?
Yes, what I wrote sounds like dauntte's inferno for nerds reading this who get to be sys admins and programmers at .coms. But, in my world doing corporate I.T. my job depends on these things and it is the real world. Management NEEDS THESE DONE. They do not care if I have 2,000 PCs when they get a certificate error in a browser due to a critical website being upgraded. It needs to be fixed NOW!
Linux doesn't cut it and I would be fired if I installed it. If all you do is browse the web and use NetFlix then a tablet or Roku is the best fit. An enterprise environment is a different beast and is underestimated how complex it is.
http://saveie6.com/
Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.
Or some critical feature doesn't work out of the box, like the taskbar and start menu, due to some other undesired feature like Cortana. (I should probably let that go,...)
In my experience, Windows 10 is becoming more like Linux, in a bad way.
Even then. There is still after 20 years no opensource solution for Outlook/Exchange. PHBs want meeting invites. They also want to see free/busy on all the recipients for their day.
I supposed in the last 4 years Office 365 has enabled some of the functionality on the web version now for Linux users, but it highlights in business there is no solutions.
MS may have made crappy OSes in the past, but their business software is certainly top of the line with Outlook and Excel. Before anyone goes on how Calc is good enough I have to say it is not for EVERY scenario. Even a city organization has financial anaylsts gurus and statisticians. These guys use add ons for Excel and proprietary software. Some who do not use advanced macros that LibreCalc can't do.
R and Python is now just started to hit some of these but these guys are not professional programmers. They knew macros and mathematics. Linux has no solution for these 2 scenarios.
http://saveie6.com/
Yeah, nerds don't want to admit that Microsoft have actually improved their products in the last 20 years.
Oh MS has improved, I'll give them that. But what burns me up is that it took them 20 years to get where they are now.
Meanwhile, on the Linux side of things, we got Ubuntu. *shudder*
Don't like Ubuntu? You have lots of other distros to choose from.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
The Outlook is destined to die ONLY because the SMTP and POP protocols aren't secure anymore. And even if they use the secure transport their providers are obliged to store your correspondence for the Competent Organs.
I think the RetroShare mail subsystem has become operational enough to replace the SMTP.
Can it do all of the Excel functions? Can the I.T. department managing 3,000 PCs with some off, some on, some in different configurations on Active Directory?
It's basically irrelevant from the very moment the Windows is caught with sending your precious data to Redmond and then to all 3-letter agencies that exist. And now we (I work in some Russian defense-related institution that should not be mentioned by name) have only 2 variants: Either conserve the Windows XP environment forever or use LibreOffice.
Can it do all of the Excel functions? Can the I.T. department managing 3,000 PCs with some off, some on, some in different configurations on Active Directory?
It's basically irrelevant from the very moment the Windows is caught with sending your precious data to Redmond and then to all 3-letter agencies that exist. And now we (I work in some Russian defense-related institution that should not be mentioned by name) have only 2 variants: Either conserve the Windows XP environment forever or use LibreOffice.
First off the EULA is mentioning sending data to Bing via cortana or searches as well as doing telemetry. Second, the enterprise version of Windows 10 has it disabled by default. LibreOffice is a no go as it doesn't do free/busy calandar functions for the executives for meetings that they waste time in all day which is a must have for their jobs.
Russia may have a right to be wary of American companies due to the poor relations both of our countries share and the NSA overstepping it's boundaries. The US is banning Kaspersky too. But outside of it many people are dependent on functions and abilities of proprietary software and features of Office.
http://saveie6.com/
Microsoft moved the german central department to the city.
Fun fact: the city hired accenture to justify the deal.
You don't need to discuss whether 'li-mux' solution failed or not, it was a political decision.
Since they already use linux, wouldn't be cheaper if they spent those 50m ($59.6m) with KVM + virtual windows (office and stuff) products using VDi?
I don't believe they would, simultaneos access 29.000 office instances.
How much would cost a project with sheepdog + KVM + Windows virt license ?
All they need is a browser.
Something phishing about that change.
Sad but completely foreseeable, or at least it should have been by them. Of all tht things that could hinder Linux adoption, requirements to use Windows-only proprietary software is the one thing that can't be overcome in a reasonable fashion but should also have been easy to quantify. What were they expecting to happen when their organization apparently depended on hundreds of different Windows-only applications?
Four of my favourite desktop Linux distros that any noob can install and use:
1) KDE neon
2) Linux Mint
3) Solus
4) elementary OS
I switched my elderly mother over to elementary OS as an experiment a few years ago and she has had absolutely no issues with it. She even told me that she thinks Windows looks "really ugly" in comparison.
Our main goal was to become independent
Microsoft Germany moves into a new headquarters
Report by Microsoft partner Accenture
I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform
Welcome to my boat. Have a seat, there is cold beer in the cooler.
I've been apart of the Linux community since day one. I started with dual tar ball install on an Amiga 3000. I still use a headless Linux box for my household file server.
But my general workstation is windows 10. So is my workstation at work. An the reason is it simply works 99% of the time. I don't have to fuss with strange Xwindows settings or wonder why my sound doesn't work.
Windows just simply works.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.
Sorry but no it doesn't. I've been running the same load of windows since 2009 when windows 7 first came out. I have upgrade through service packs, skipped windows 8, and did a in place upgrade to 10. I've swapped out hardware several times, including complete rebuilds, and my system has been rock steady for years at a time.
The only time it got unstable was when I had a bad harddrive in my system. I replaced it and it went right back to being rock stable.
Of course if you have wonky hardware or you are loading weird shit on to your system, then you will probably have issues.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Most of your examples are disingenous: they rely on the fact that at some point someone accepted a 'solution' or a product that runs only on a windows or a specific sub-product for it (like IE6). When a vendor comes to me with a 'solution' like this, I laugh him out of the room. Either it runs everywhere or it's open-source and I can work on it to make it so. I agree that being a small shop doesn't always work (but there's ccompetition), but having tens of thousands of PC can force vendors to CHANGE.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Don't like Ubuntu? You have lots of other distros to choose from.
An there is part of the problem. How many distributions of Linux are there now? An which version do you want to run? In a business environment this is a nightmare. Then you have the software that you need that won't run on your distribution, or isn't supported.
You simply don't see this in a windows or mac desktop environment.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Windows 10 has a number of nice features, such as the UWP, support for modern hardware like touch screens (with a touch compatible interface), high resolution screens, HDR, fast wake up etc, and great integration with the cloud, especially Office 365.
Linux may be the more solid operating system, but it offers none of the those features. So if you want to use them, Windows 10 is the winner by default.
The lazy politicians and bureaucrats counld not be bothered to learn to do something different, so the taxpayers get to pay Millions to Microsloth, and the global megacorp will get recordings of every mouse move and every keystroke made by every employee of that government.
The politicians do not care one teensy bit that any info they enter into their computers about any of their citizens will go straight into some Microsloth server to be analyzed, parsed, collated, and possible sold to ANY buyer at some point in the future and without their consent. Note: the Political morons of Munich might well be able to accept a shrinkwrap license with its evil terms, but they cannot accept on behalf of the innocent individual citizens whose data will be vaccumed.
Every citizen of every country whose government uses Apple or Microsoft products should be suing, as none of these people are consenting to the indirect spying by these "global citizen" corporations that is going on.
Most of your examples are disingenous: they rely on the fact that at some point someone accepted a 'solution' or a product that runs only on a windows or a specific sub-product for it (like IE6). When a vendor comes to me with a 'solution' like this, I laugh him out of the room. Either it runs everywhere or it's open-source and I can work on it to make it so. I agree that being a small shop doesn't always work (but there's ccompetition), but having tens of thousands of PC can force vendors to CHANGE.
How cool you are the CIO who can accept or deny purchases. Where I am from I am told to support this or YOU"RE FIRED and replaced with an Indian who will. I don't get to chose.
It may suck to be me, but that is reality. Infact, the vendors such as Oracle take lunches and golf trips to non technical people to sign off on such shitware. After the game of golf the CIO is handed a contract with an IE 7 product and told to make it happen. He then calls my boss to implement and then he calls me to support it and make it happen.
There is a reason Salespeople are the most compensated in every department. They get shit done and they do this behind techies backs.
But you haven't mentioned the non technical semi dicks who have their fancy MBAs who LOVE to sit in meetings all day pretending to work. That is the free/busy invite skype meeting thingies in Outlook. You take that away then their pcs are useless. You can't say no to these folks.
THe vendors you talk about do not answer to geeks. They answer to the MBA holders and bosses. Our job is to make their lives easier.
http://saveie6.com/
I use Linux since the very early days of 1992. I have been using Slackware then Mandrake (which became Mandriva) then Debian for years and finally for the last years Ubuntu personally and Centos professionally.
I switched from dual-boot systems to Linux only somewhere in early 2000. I've always had windows laptops in the companies I worked for although serious production machines were always running Linux.
You have to realize that "you cannot save everyone". Most people do not care about privacy, security or even stability (after years of Windows use they are now familiar with the reboot-to-fix pattern...). Add to this the MS lobbying, the stupid/lazy game industry and the corrupted representatives and you have the winner cocktail to why Linux will never become the desktop standard for everyone.
Now I don't try any more to push people to switch to Linux. Most people are not ready to trade any of their stupid habits for better practices or security. No matter, Linux will survive, without them. Linux is by far the #1 system in the world, ranging from low-end connected devices, raspberries, phones to cloud infrastructure and top 500 supercomputers (all of them actually). No other operating system is even close to achieve this... Anyone who has a bit of curiosity can easily move to Linux to run everything he needs, in a secure, controlled an reliable manner.
Why do you think Google wants to develop their own kernel to replace Linux in Android ? Linux is about giving freedom and ultimate power to the user, what Google wants is power to Google...
To specifically talk about Munich, I don't really know the case and why it failed. What I'm sure of, is that this is not because of Linux. It may be because of bad hardware choices (there are always a lot win-hardware in the wild), wrong people leading the project, bad training plan, wrong partnerships (I would prefer by far to partner with some company like RedHat than with MS).... who cares ?
What I know is who will pay for this... And Munich tax-payers will soon know what it means. And BTW guys, forget about any form of data privacy.
The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:
Cool so we agree then and we on Slashdot can stop with the Windows is unstable and shouldn't ever run any important software then. The only difference between your and my comment is the timeline.
But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Exactly. Something as I said seems to be lost on much of the IT community who do nothing but repeat tired jokes from the turn of the century. It's actually more telling how popular and widely used Microsoft's OS is *despite* their hostility towards users.
Thou I agree with you on your general opinion, other than the two Excel questions, the rest of the answers would be a yes.
AD isnâ(TM)t perfect, even it struggles to manage PCs, nested groups, and start up scripts when you get into 30+k clients. You will find PCs a week later that havenâ(TM)t installed a patch! We actually avoid NGs 3+ levels deep and keep the scripts very very slim.
LibreOffice is a no go as it doesn't do free/busy calandar functions for the executives for meetings that they waste time in all day which is a must have for their jobs.
We had a MS meeting scedule and room booking system in our company. I don't know what it was (Outlook? You tell me), but no-one used it because if you tried you found that all the meeting rooms and managers were booked solid for the next six months "just in case they were needed".
To get a meeting room or find a chairman manager you had to go to one of the senior manager's secretaries the previous day who kept the real booking system, which was an unofficial paper diary.
There's a lot of "if" coming off that statement. Perhaps Microsoft really improved Windows with version 10. At my employer I have a Windows 7 laptop which I use mostly for compiling software (my main desktop is Linux, thankfully). The Windows interface may be familiar to most people, but as a regular Linux user I find it fairly basic. There's no way to pin a window on top, for example, or even to have multiple virtual desktops. It doesn't even have symlink support!
On my Windows system, it's a rare day that it runs perfectly, or smoothly, or I don't have to concentrate on its setup. When something is wrong, the errors are often meaningless or misleading. For example, if a DLL needed by an EXE doesn't have execute permissions, you might get an error indicating that some other DLL couldn't be found. Or the system might skip that DLL and load a different one from later in that PATH. I waste much more of my time trying to keep the Windows build working than I do on Linux. And I mostly know what I'm doing -- I have no idea how average people fare. I gather they just ignore the problems as "that's Windows".
But worst of all, it is slow. Extremely slow. Mind bogglingly slow. The software I compile on it takes about 4 hours to completely build and test on Linux. And that's pulling all the data over the network (NFS and ClearCase). On Windows, it takes a minimum of 24 hours to build, and another 24 hours to test. And that's with everything copied to the local disk -- it takes twice as long if running over the network. I do daily builds on Linux, but only weekly builds on Windows. It's so slow it hinders my ability to use it.
Part of that slowness is likely related to all the dumb "security" software my employer installs on Windows. Lately, this software has made it so that about 2 out of 3 processes fail to start. You can imagine how much this would affect a build done using 'make'. I can't even get rsync to reliably start to copy the latest copy of the software from the network to the local drive.
This sort of dumbness is what the users of the Munich network can look forward to when they start getting their Windows clients. "Security" people (not real security people, but people who follow checklists and think that more security software always makes things better) will ruin whatever system shows up in Munich. They users will be longing for their Linux clients :)
"Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
How about SSH? It's used for managing/logging in to virtually all IT equipment and because Microsoft didn't invent it, they've got piss all support. Yes, you can install PuTTY, but it's not particularly easy to tunnel protocols through SSH like it is in Linux/BSD etc.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made
Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC.
Try to add a printer to linux.. I. DARE. YOU.
That's funny, mine works.
Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC.
And buried in Windows 10 is the functionality needed to do it, too. Motive, opportunity, and a blank check.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Exactly. Something as I said seems to be lost on much of the IT community who do nothing but repeat tired jokes from the turn of the century.
The problems with windows as an OS aren't architectural any more, like they were before about Windows 2000. The problems with windows are related to Microsoft being Microsoft. Changing GUIs just to say they have changed, to the point where the organization of configuration tools makes less sense. Sure, you can find the thing you're looking for because there's a search function, but that's still a step backwards from sensible organization. And, of course, the spyware problem. That one is, frankly, insurmountable. Even as a volume-licensed corporate customer who has been told they can turn it all off, can you really trust Microsoft with a EULA that gives them permission to snoop through the entire contents of every computer running Windows?
It's actually more telling how popular and widely used Microsoft's OS is *despite* their hostility towards users.
Uh, no. Microsoft's OS is used because of their hostile business practices. This has been determined by multiple world governments, including in our own department of justice.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Just use Ubuntu, you dumb twat.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Are you implying Ubuntu / Linux didn't progress? It seems that since the time you moved to Windows, you didn't give another chance to Linux. On the media side the progress is gigantic. Sure, to play most Windows games, still have to be a windowser.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Can Susie Secretary or Great Uncle Jobadiah do those things on Windows?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Windows 10 already contains the infrastructure and tools needed to monitor everything employees do with their government computers and silently report it to Big Brother.. Of course the government prefers this.
It's cute that you think these corporate environment users are doing all these things instead of browsing E-bay and Amazon.
Why would the have hardware problems? They purchased hardware meant for Windows machines? Couldn't they purchase hardware from Dell or System76? Do they try to install Mac OS X on Asus laptops? Why then they try to install Linux on Windows hardware? Stick to vendors that provide support for your OS, and you will have less problems. That is why Macs are considered good; nobody really tries to set Mac OS X on a Windows machine.
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
I wonder what RedHat and Canonical use within their organization for email and calendar software.
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
Your printer example is wrong. Under Linux, it is easy. You should take scanners as an example instead, because there are no GUI for adding a Scanner manually if it is not detected automatically.
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
Yeah, nerds don't want to admit that Microsoft have actually improved their products in the last 20 years. Meanwhile, on the Linux side of things, we got Ubuntu. *shudder*
It's not a matter of admitting, it's a matter of believing. See, people who've been hip to Microsoft's shenanigans over the years may have noticed what they hoped no one would, and that is that IF they wanted to make sure no one "steals" their imaginary property, one route to go is to put oodles and oodles of bugs, flaws, and glaring security holes into their sad excuse for an operating system, to make sure that people would conclude that if you run Windows without Windows Update turned on, you need your head examined, and that the only way to get Windows Update is to REGISTER it, and the only way you can register it is to HAVE PAID for it.
Now... I can't prove (thanks to the obfuscation and encryption of the code and the fact that they won't release the source,) that Microsoft DELIBERATELY and INTENTIONALLY makes their software buggy and security-hole ridden, sacrificing YOUR safety for the sake of THEIR bottom-line. BUT, I think I can show this is likely the case, simply by pointing something out. The last version of Windows I used was 7, a fact for which I thank God daily. I managed to get my copy to run and act a LOT like XP, the last version I actually liked. NOW, consider this: what would have happened to Microsoft and their precious bottom line if XP, for example, HAD been built securely in the first place? Or let's say there were a secret version of XP that DIDN'T need constant updating to fix all the holes and flaws, a version that ACTUALLY just worked the way people pretend Windows 10 does, (which is really Windows 9, which for marketing purposes they decided to call 10 to catch up to REAL operating systems... they couldn't even NAME it honestly,) and THAT VERSION got out somehow into the wild. Would Microsoft EVER sell another OS after that? Even if people, without being forced, coerced, or threatened, BOUGHT legit copies of THAT operating system. When they replaced their computers, what would stop them from using that OS on the successor computer? Why would they pay Microsoft... AGAIN... for the same thing they already paid for?
(I'm not talking about buying one copy and installing it on many computers simultaneously, but on ONE computer, and then on each computer you replace that one WITH, iteratively, as time goes by.)
Let's not forget, software is just information, which does not itself get old or degrade over time. Sure, computers do, but the product they sell, (excluding the unholy abomination that is the "Surface") is SOFTWARE, not hardware. When was the last time you tried to sit down and enjoy reading a classic novel or play, and found that half of it was suddenly blank or didn't work somehow, simply because of its age? The PAPER could fail, (and generally will after a few hundred years,) but the LITERARY work is NOT the paper of the book itself but the arrangement of information on the pages OF that book. Just like software, it's a conceptual product, NOT a physical one. The disc you buy it on, (back when people bought things this way,) was just the means to convey that information TO you, and NOT the product itself. Imagine reading something like "Romeo & Juliet," and suddenly Juliet comes back to life, administers an antidote to Romeo, and they run away to London together, and ultimately the play ends in true, meta-style, with them WATCHING a Shakespeare play, due to a WORD MALFUNCTION. Or that just due to age, due to the pure number of years that have elapsed since the play was written, if suddenly you turn from one page to the next, and all the letters on the next page lay in a huge jumble at the bottom of the page, because of a letter-position FAILURE!
No, information itself doesn't FAIL spontaneously the way a physical product does, and Shakespeare fans generally agree that whatever YOUR particular co
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
You can maintain the entire domain with policy and use powershell scripts for that. Wake up it 2017.
Why on Earth did they ever decide to build their own distribution?! This seems like it would have been a maintenance headache from day one.
Verizon ditched office for Google for business. Even their email is handled by google and employees can use Linux or Mac as their OS.
Since RHEL is a recommended platform and I've installed it on CentOS I'd say yes.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I suspect someone got paid off big time.
The geek's all-purpose excuse for any decision that doesn't go their way is bribery. It's so much simpler than trying to understand staffing, workflow and management in the office environment. In many ways, the client OS and apps is a much more subtle and intractabl problem than the server.
That's a bone headed comment. Linux desktop use has more than doubled in the past ten years. Android is the worlds most used OS, running a Linux kernel.
The short version: Just because it runs the Linux kernel does NOT necessarily mean it is a LINUX DESKTOP. (Also, people worrying about how many machines run the Linux kernel is like a so-called "president" (hahaha) worrying about the size of his inaugural crowd. The number of people who show up does NOT correlate in THIS country, anyway, with how legitimate your "presidency" is, or whether indeed it even IS legitimate, or if it isn't, just as the number of Linux kernels being run does NOT correlate with the worthiness of the kernel. Also, if you didn't actually work on the kernel, why are your feelings hurt by people mistakenly thinking there are more MS-WinDOS 'kernels' running (or rather ruining,) some number of PCs? Think if you shout loud enough, programmers will start releasing games for GNU/Linux first? LOL)
The long version: Android is NOT generally a DESKTOP OS. A phone is NOT a desktop. Sorry, it just isn't. When people speak of "the year of Linux on the Desktop," they're mostly referring to GNU/Linux distros, (which Android is NOT, as it's NOT GNU... it's Android/Linux, afaik,) on DESKTOP machines.
Even if you mistakenly count a tablet or a phone, or something in between, or an embedded device as a DESKTOP in a household that literally HAS no desktop computer, that does not have anything to do with market-penetration of DESKTOP LINUX, as compared with desktop computers running some version of M$ Windows.
The most widely-used OPERATING SYSTEM KERNEL with which people interact is the Linux kernel, sure, counting all the Android devices, (including phones, tablets, etc.,) all GNU/Linux desktops, all embedded devices running some version of Linux (like probably your Smart TV, for example, your car stereo, your car's control computer, quite possibly your microwave, or refrigerator... etc. etc. ETC.) even after you deduct defunct systems in landfills or which have been recycled, since Windows PCs in the garbage must also be deducted.
If you have a Chevy, for example, built in the last 5 or 10 years, go into the infotainment system, deep in the menus there's a "legal" menu item, which if you select, starts giving a list of copyright notices, such as they're required to give by the terms of the licenses of software used INSIDE the devices, and GNU is mentioned, I believe. That's because there's GNU software in there, and I kinda doubt it's running the HURD.
These are only a few examples. There's all the internet backbone machines, servers, etc., there're all kinds of places in the tech world where that kernel is being run, in colleges and universities... the list goes on and on.
BUT those have NOTHING to do with the number of DESKTOP PCs running GNU/Linux, (excluding obviously, home PC desktops, and maybe business desktop PCs, etc. where day-to-day use of them as programmable computers is done, by people,) or the Year of Linux on the Desktop.
For my purposes, at least, I'm defining a desktop PC as a general-purpose computer, without regard to form-factor or location, running an interactive operating system visible to the user, with-which he or she can direct the computer to perform tasks via a range of peripherals which can be attached to the device, to view files, launch programs, control peripheral hardware, AND... which operating system provides services to facilitate those things. So a PHONE, generally lacking in the ability to hook peripherals to it, is not really a general purpose machine... though it COULD do for one in a pinch. (I HAVE hooked up a bluetooth keyboard to an iPhone and an external display via a lightning to HDMI connector, and yeah, I could TYPE on that, and iOS does have Pages, an app that has some of the functionality at least, of the OS X version of that program... but could not hook up
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
Actually, it's Minux. In all Intel CPUs. Runs Intel's spy/control/mal/ware.
Actually, it's MINIX. It's not in ALL Intel CPUs, either. As for what it does, it does a number of things that are necessary and beneficial, while yes, there are a good number of things it does that do not DIRECTLY benefit the user, which is why some people are trying to replace it with Linux, or more specifically, a stripped-down GNU/Linux, as I recently learned watching this fascinating and illuminating talk about efforts at the 2017 Embedded Linux Conference Europe
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
How many hookers and grams of coke that cost Micro$oft
The reality is it's easier to use Windows than Linux, when you have years of exposure to Windows. So, yes and no.
Just use Ubuntu, you dumb twat.
Wow, master of wit are you? Nobody in a business environment uses Ubuntu for anything. Well not if they know what they are doing. They use Redhat Enterprise because they can get some kind of support for it.
Now who is the dumb twat, you dumb twat?
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Actually, I've worked in multiple business environments that used Ubuntu. More to the point, the only popular distros are Ubuntu and various versions of Red Hat, and that's where the compatibility and support are. Your whining about the total number of distros is irrelevant because the options you need for compatibility are pretty simple in the overwhelming majority of desktop use cases.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I've used the Web Office 365 for Word and PowerPoint. Using Firefox on Linux to do office documents and powerpoint presentations is not anything near an equal experience to the real product. As far as Libreoffice, documents are fine, but the presentation software is no-where close?
Its a Surface Pro 4. Customizability pretty much depends on Microsoft attachments.
The system isn't unstable, I just have something change its functionality to a completely different paradigm everytime I update to a new version of Windows 10. As of Fall Creators Update I can no longer change the resolution on external monitors. Oh, but it appears I can change the resolution of the built-in LCD, which didn't work for the plain Creators update.
'Bout the same with Linux. Every non-LTS release of Ubuntu has its quirks to work out.
Well, that is a vital part of Android's strategy: 1) Bring a few Millions users to learn their system 2) Announce to these millions users: "The software that you know and love, it's ready and available, for first time, to use in your desktop, laptop or notebook. Just click this button to backup your files, wipe your disk and install Android Fig Newton in your computer... "
Microsoft invested millions of dollars in R&D before performing GUI changes. The ribbon had clear and lasting benefits to everyone,
Wow, defensive much? I'm not even talking about the ribbon. I'm talking about various GUI changes between Windows 7 and Windows 10, with some pathetic stops along the way at 8 and 8.1.
Err yes. It has been demonstrated that Enterprise editions of windows with the privacy settings enabled in group policy, Cortana disabled, and windows update pointed to a local WSUS server is incredibly quiet on the network.
Until the next update, sure. You can only trust Microsoft to be bastards.
You keep believing that while your alternate OSes are either on unaffordable machines, or lack basic reliability to do things like wake from sleep,
They run on the same machines, and on most of them, wake from sleep works fine these days — so long as you configure Linux to lie and tell the PC that it is Windows, because the PCs are often configured to work improperly if you tell them anything else — because Microsoft wrote the tools used to create the power saving information. This is in fact more evidence of Microsoft malfeasance.
not to mention that every attempt to move the alternate OS in a direction towards usability in a normal scenario is met with utter hostility (see pulse audio, network manager, wayland, systemd, etc).
Pulseaudio was shit for years. Total abject shit. Network manager was also shit for years, and it totally bypasses the functionality built into the OS, which meant that it compromised your ability to use command-line tools, which means it's still shit. Wayland was resisted until the devs knuckled under and agreed to implement some kind of networking, which is to say that it was accepted when it was not shit. And systemd is still shit, written by the same guy who failed at pulseaudio for years.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Actually, I've worked in multiple business environments that used Ubuntu.
Well I did say "if they know what they are doing." Over the years I've seen and deployed thousands of Linux installs. I've been in datacenters with hundreds of Linux systems. Almost everyone of them is some version of Redhat or Centos.
You will always have the naive goober try some variation of Ubuntu. As long as they don't cause trouble and don't expect support they usually get to keep it. But most of the time their vanity Linux goes off the rails or they fail the security screening because their OS isn't up to corporate standards.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Its a Surface Pro 4. Customizability pretty much depends on Microsoft attachments.
I have a surface pro 4 too. I've not noticed any strange things with it. When running it in desktop mode it seems to be just another portable computer to me.
Now I won't give windows 10 any good marks as a tablet OS. It pretty much fails miserably there. It is usable but any android launcher will beat it with out working up a sweat.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I still miss my Amiga 3000. I love the look of that machine; and the feel of the keyboard. The freaking control key was in the right spot! To this day I still hit the caps lock key when I mean control.
I had lots of computer before my Amiga 3000. A C-64, C-128, and even an A500. But the Amiga 3000 was what I consider to be my real workstation computer.
I had one of the first A3000's too. With the kickstart on the HD. I never got around to buying a proper ROM kickstart for it. Didn't see the need.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Wow, defensive much? I'm not even talking about the ribbon. I'm talking about various GUI changes between Windows 7 and Windows 10, with some pathetic stops along the way at 8 and 8.1.
Offensive much? I'm talking about Microsoft GUI philosophy in general. Frankly I don't give a shit about MS. I'm not defending them, just going on an offence against the "change for change sake" meme in the name of common sense.
Until the next update, sure. You can only trust Microsoft to be bastards.
Actually enterprises trust Microsoft to be enterprise partners. This is why the most recent Windows 10 enterprise edition is almost 2 years old and won't change for another 3 years. These are companies that have assessed Windows 10 and found them suitable for use with confidential and secret documents.
Of course they could make you a special Windows 10 Tinfoilhat edition.
They run on the same machines, and on most of them, wake from sleep works fine these days — so long as you configure Linux to lie and tell the PC that it is Windows, because the PCs are often configured to work improperly if you tell them anything else — because Microsoft wrote the tools used to create the power saving information. This is in fact more evidence of Microsoft malfeasance.
So... I see words like "most" and "if you configure it it lie" and "configured improperly" ... I was going to make some point about why the common person doesn't use Linux, but thanks you did it for me. People in general don't give a shit why it doesn't work. This is why I don't run Ubuntu on my 9 month old laptop. I tried it, it didn't work, I spent 15min Googling the problem, and then did a factory reset. Linux can stay on my servers, it should work out of the box before it gets used on a desktop.
Pulseaudio was shit for years. Total abject shit. Network manager was also shit for years, and it totally bypasses the functionality built into the OS, which meant that it compromised your ability to use command-line tools, which means it's still shit. Wayland was resisted until the devs knuckled under and agreed to implement some kind of networking, which is to say that it was accepted when it was not shit. And systemd is still shit, written by the same guy who failed at pulseaudio for years.
So what you're saying is "was" "was" "was" and yet forums and message boards are full of worthless comments against these tools which provided core functionality. Your post right now demonstrates the problem.
Let me paraphrase what you just wrote:
Windows bad because MS bad!
Linux good. It has bugs. You just need to hack the gibson with great skills to get it working, and when you can't, jump online where you'll be greeted with a cesspool of hateful shit because you want your system to be functional but some grumpy neckbeard thinks that you're not being Unix enough to use Unix.
Yeah 2017, the year of Linux on the desktop.
Offensive much? I'm talking about Microsoft GUI philosophy in general.
Microsoft philosophy in general is fuck you, and fuck everyone else too.
So... I see words like "most" and "if you configure it it lie" and "configured improperly" ...
They all apply to Windows just as well, hypocrite.
Let me paraphrase what you just wrote:
Windows bad because MS bad!
Well, you figured that part out anyway. Maybe someday you'll get it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nice job ignoring the primary point about how your whining was idiotic because Ubuntu and Red Hat have all the compatibility, meaning thatyour "too many distros" argument is bullshit. Your stupid argument was why I was flippant, you dumb twat.
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Uhm, what exactly about modern LTS Ubuntu distributions is not up to corporate standards?
We run RedHat and Ubuntu at the office. Not seeing any real advantage of RedHat over Ubuntu LTS these days.
Lucky you. Each time I update to anew release of Windows 10 I encounter a number of things that don't work, and a number of things that work differently.
Generally XP, Vista, and 7 remained consistent in functionality throughout their lifespans. A few hiccups with an update here and there (Such as the 100% CPU infinite loop for Windows Updates in Vista and 7, though they did fix it in 7.)
The Surface Pro 4 is a nice prototype. It is a fancy piece of experimental technology. Works well enough to use in a day to day environment, and the concept is a welcome improvement. However the Surface Pro is a prototype of a future technology and OS implementation.
I'm glad your Surface Pro works well for you. Mine does also a majority of the time. I did purchase my Surface Pro 4 after Microsoft resolved the issue with the Task bar and start menu crashing. My laptop did suffer that failure. Considering Microsoft's move away from easy to remember applications (mspaint.exe), to complicated names in difficult to find locations which are not in the$PATH (Paint 3D), the Taskbar and Start Menu are going to be ever more crucial to daily usage of the desktop OS.
This isn't Bill Gates Microsoft anymore.
I didn't ignore your point you idiot, but it's clear from your responses you have never installed or managed a enterprise level environment. You may have installed your precious Ubuntu on desktops in a small shop. Here let me spell it out for you.
Most distributions are binary compatible. Which simply means what can run on one can be made to run on another. What is not compatible is support. There is that word again, support. It is all the rage in big business shops. I would suggest you learn what it means.
Lets give an example, Oracle. With some know how I imagine any decent sysadmin, that leaves you out, could make it run on Ubuntu. But for argument let say you get it to run on your pet Ubuntu, and all is good for awhile.
Then one day your Oracle goes down and management give you the order to call support. So you call support only to be told that your OS isn't a supported OS. Ubuntu isn't a supported under Oracle.
An there you are. Your company is losing thousands of dollars every minute and you have to tell management that you won't be getting any support. When they ask why this is they then find out you installed there multi thousand dollar database on a unsupported OS, which leads to you getting your dumb ass fired. An rightly so.
You and people like you are part of the problem. You insist that your little linux disturbutions are all the same when they are not. Companies don't support every brand of linux out there. There are way to many disubutions for them too. An that is the problem I pointed out.
But yet here fools like you go, picking your pet linux distro and damn the rest of us who actually know what we are doing. Do you know how many times as a contracter I have walked into a shop and been told to rip out all the linux boxes and convert them to windows because some idiot like you screwed the pooch?
Most managers don't know ubuntu from fedora, and really don't care. When they hear Microsoft Windows they nod and smile because they know that name. Now we are at the point where we can sell a known distro like Redhat Enterprise. But when you try to sell them some weird ass distro, then it just gives all of Linux a bad name.
Stop being part of the problem.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Actually, I'm going to dial down the enthusiasm I've had in these posts and kind of agree with you. I installed the latest update to windows 10 and now my external BR drive won't work.
So yeah. I see your point now.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Twaddle. I had years of experience of Windows (starting with 3.1 through to XP) and 8.1 had me totally flummoxed.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You just ignored the point again. There are only two remotely viable bases for an enterprise setting, so "There are way too many distributions for them too" is bullshit. Ubuntu and Red Hat derivatives.
The more correct version would be: "Figure out whether you need Ubuntu (and the broader community support) or Red Hat (and the broader corporate support), and just use which one works best for you, you dumb twat." But that's far less pithy, and Ubuntu has been where new projects tend to be based (like LiMux).
There are not "too many distributions." For all practical purposes, there are two, and which one you need is going to be apparent when you review your organization's requirements. The existence of Hannah Montana Linux, Gentoo, and Slackware only cause a paradox of choice if you know nothing. If you have a basic understand of the roles and usage patterns of the different distros, what you need is pretty clear.
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I think we are done here. I've explained to you the problem as simple as I can with out actually insulting other peoples intelligence. You simply refuse the see the problem.
Again, stop being part of the problem.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Yeah, I get the problem. If some sysadmin installs Gentoo on their corporate setup and a problem needs to fixed, then they're fucked because nobody can help, and more importantly, there's nobody to point fingers at. But for all practical purposes, there are two and only two options. If you are dealing with the caliber of PHBs who always chose IBM because nobody was fired for choosing IBM, then you'd want RHEL. If you are Munich, and having domestic support that is creating jobs is one of your selling points, then you'd probably fork Ubuntu, mostly with presets, language packs, and whatever is needed to meet government requirements, but otherwise, probably pretty vanilla. And that's what they did, and it saved them money, while experiencing about the same amount of problems expected for an institute of their size.
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Oh no, your personal experience completely invalidates everything! I too have used windows since 3.1 and have absolutely no problem with Windows 8 and newer. Further, it's commonly accept that people learn from experience and are more comfortable with what is familiar.
I wasn't giving an opinion, I was stating a fact. Windows 10 is just as viable as Windows 7 as an operating system. There is plenty there to argue about whether it's worth the cost of upgrading, or whether you like the operating system. That comes down to opinion, and everyone is entitled to one.
Where I am from I am told to support this or YOU"RE FIRED and replaced with an Indian who will. I don't get to chose...
I would walk from there immediately, and get a raise while at it.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Linux desktop use has more than doubled in the past ten years.
Much more than doubled in terms of absolute number of users. The market share has more than doubled while the market was expanding. With the Microsoft desktop market shrinking now, Linux's share is likely to expand at a faster pace.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.
Nice fiction. This decision was made by greased palms, not by users.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
That's nice and all, but most people don't want to edit configuration files. If Linux ever comes to the desktop, then its incarnation would have to bring a good application ecosystem and a solid user interface with it, otherwise there won't be any way for it to compete. Windows phone failed because Microsoft neglected to do either one of these things.
The best hope for Linux on the desktop right now is probably chrome OS.
In every Windows 10 there is a WSL hidden deep inside. The Phantom Menace. Someday the Force awakens...
Pervert!