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Prepare for the New Paywall Era (theatlantic.com)

Alexis C. Madrigal, writing for The Atlantic: If the recent numbers are any indication, there is a bloodbath in digital media this year. Publishers big and small are coming up short on advertising revenue, even if they are long on traffic. [...] In a print newspaper or a broadcast television station, the content and the distribution of that content are integrated. The big tech platforms split this marriage, doing the distribution for most digital content through Google searches and the Facebook News Feed. And they've taken most of the money: They've "captured the value" of the content at the distribution level. Media companies have no real alternative, nor do they have competitive advertising products to the targeting and scale that Facebook and Google can offer. Facebook and Google need content, but it's all fungible. The recap of a huge investigative blockbuster is just as valuable to Google News as an investigative blockbuster itself. The former might have taken months and costs tens of thousands of dollars, the latter a few hours and the cost of a young journalist's time. That's led many people to the conclusion that supporting rigorous journalism requires some sort of direct financial relationship between publications and readers. Right now, the preferred method is the paywall. The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one. The Financial Times has one. The Wall Street Journal has one. The New Yorker has one. Wired just announced they'd be building one. (Editor's note: CNN is building a paywall, too.) Many of these efforts have been successful. Publications have figured out how to create the right kinds of porosity for their sites, allowing enough people in to drive scale, but extracting more revenue per reader than advertising could provide.

263 comments

  1. It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And it won't work this time. You're just looking at a ton of closures and maybe some consolidation between whoever is left standing

    1. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Too many people were using the HOV lanes in my state and tax revenue from gas sales dropped too low. Now they charge to use the HOV lanes, and no one uses them.

      I can't see this turning out any differently.

    2. Re:It didn't work the first time by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'll pay for a hard/dead tree copy of something....

      I don't feel like paying digital. Just seems less of value on digital.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:It didn't work the first time by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't feel like paying digital. Just seems less of value on digital.

      For me it has nothing to do with the value of the content or digital/dead tree. I just don't want to pay for something that I'm accustomed to getting for free even if it's a bargain. Not entirely rational, but that's the 'logic' behind my motivation.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    4. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I live (Austin), they put toll/HOV lanes in, where it costs $3-$4 each way. Ironic thing is because people are too stupid to merge, the left lane and the toll lane wind up at a standstill, while the center and right lanes are smooth sailing. That, and other factors make the HOV/toll roads slower than the rest of the highway.

    5. Re: It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      News is a waste of time and emotional energy.
      I dont pay to view any story.
      If I have to pay, I just dont care. Fuck off. I dont give a shit anymore now that the nazis have taken over and fucked the nation and world up beyond repair.

    6. Re:It didn't work the first time by sycodon · · Score: 1

      They want to do that on I-35 now.

      Austin is run by a bunch of fucking idiots.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    7. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll never pay for anything advertiser-supported. I don't believe nor want advertising in my life. I started to see Roku ads suddenly, so I firewalled off the ads.

      I pay my very very rich ISP. Maybe they can pay content providers money for my leeching of data, I sure as hell am not going to, since nearly every one still has ads or supports advertising.

      I'll *never* change this, it's more important to me than the Internet or whatever social media exists.

    8. Re:It didn't work the first time by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      90% of what I read is in instapaper or pocket. I see an article I want to read, I save it for when I have time (usually when I'm offline). Gets rid of stupid formatting and auto-play ads, I can use the speed-reader function, or the app can read it out loud to me. Paywalls break that even if I pay for it. Stat news specifically has a problem with instapaper loading articles from it. They mix in paywalled articles with free ones, and they're not clearly marked as one or the other if you're subscribing. I go to read an interesting article on the plane with no wifi connection and get an annoyingly cheerful ad to subscribe which I already have.

    9. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To me, it seems like a return to the walled gardens of the Compuserve era. You paid monthly (and by the minute or other usage metric; that's optional) and got access to whoever felt the system was worth publishing on. Ultimately, widespread paywalls *will* kill the system because most people will only be able to afford a couple of news providers. Obviously, that would include the 1 or 2 that match one's interests. The aggregators (by subject area, for instance) would become prohibitively expensive for anybody not in business (and therefore able to deduct the cost). Perhaps, like Compuserve, there would still be the ability to send email to anybody ...

      Having it all run through your ISP would end up increasing the ISP cost accordingly. Again, welcome back to Compuserve, AOL, etc.

    10. Re:It didn't work the first time by gnick · · Score: 2

      I'll never pay for anything advertiser-supported.

      Newspapers? Magazines? Movies with previews? A ride on a bus with a logo on the side?

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    11. Re:It didn't work the first time by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      You need to consider the content and the cost of creating it. I'm willing to pay for decent content, but I am hard pressed to find ANY US news outlet that covers local, regional, national, and international stories equally well. Even local papers have maybe three or four stories that are rather superficial, wrapped in 16 pages of baseball stats. Online is not any better. Many of the stories are carbon copies of AP or Reuters and get published hours if not days after European outlets covered them. If you want to get informed about the US read reputable British, German, or French newspapers.
      As far as ad revenue goes, I have no problems with ads as long as they are not the main content of a page. Put them on the right side, have them be static text or images, no video, no audio. Put some effort into the ads shown, not this AdChoice crap that shows me stuff that has no relevance to the region I live in. Why advertise for a store chain that has no presence here? Also, show ads and be done with it, means none of this tracking crap. The only alternative I am fine with is a 3 second full page ad before I get the content. In any case, optimize page loads. I recently complained to a local online newspaper that they removed the comment section below articles. They claimed it was for page load optimization. The comment section took milliseconds to load while all the ad crap added seconds causing constant content shifts while the ad images popped up all over the page. Do advertising the right way and people are less keen on blocking it.

    12. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to Amerika, the home of Kapitalizm, where you pay for any and all privilege.

  2. A problem that has no easy solution by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a problem that needs to be solved. Since copying content has become easy, how do the people who create content get paid? How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

    There are no easy solutions.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Easy solution: Build a wall around the paywalls and make the paywalls pay for it.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by OffTheLip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Evolve that's how. I fail to see how this problem is different than how the printing press put the screws to other means of information dissemination back in the day. Whoever figures out the way ahead will win. I doubt holding your information hostage from readers will be the answer.

    3. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by cmaurand · · Score: 2

      So you're suggesting extending single signon to actually be a clearing house for paywalls? Not a bad idea.

    4. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      There are no easy solutions.

      There are, the problem is the lack of human intelligence. A true independent media needs its own central bank to be immune to corporate influence, aka you'd build a media that had the ability to loan money to itself and build it into the system. That would be an anethema to the upper class however, you can see their feelings here about the common man:

      Former national security advisor on his reservations of the political awakening of the masses

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

    5. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a problem that needs to be solved. Since copying content has become easy, how do the people who create content get paid? How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

      There are no easy solutions.

      With the amount of fake news being perpetuated by a lot of sources, I'm starting to question just how much we should pay for those who "investigate stories".

      One thing's for damn sure; if I'm having to pay for my information, it fucking better be factual and accurate. Otherwise, refunds and lawsuits will be the order of the day.

    6. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Falos · · Score: 1

      * I think imaginary property is an oxymoron; we only pretend that someone owns a mental construct, everywhere in the universe simultaneously forever

      * I think creators should be given money for creating, perhaps even more than now; we like what's on git/s.overflow, sure, and in that vein we give thanks for every "good idea" since the dawn of mankind, they are the heroes of the species, not that anyone's sending royalties to the corpses of ancient greeks.

      Those two can stand next to each other fine in my philosophy. I have no idea how to make them stand next to each other in reality.

    7. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by gtall · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar. That just two sites for $30. One quickly runs out of money to pay for a reasonable collection of different editorial stances and investigative journalism.

      The current situation also means small sites that do not need much to spew their "contents" have an oversize influence. They do not have to pay for investigative journalism, or quality op-eds.

    8. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a practical idea, it has no place for feet to be attached.

    9. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by gtall · · Score: 1

      Readers holding their money from information carriers will sink the carriers. You'll be left with spew, everywhere.

    10. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Maybe a media site should offer a Paywall or an Advertising site. (Sort of like YouTube constantly nagging: tired of ads?)

      If the Ads won't support the site for the visitors who elect Ads, then the problem would seem that the advertisers are not willing to pay enough to support the number of pages that visitors look at. Or the problem is that the content itself is not valuable enough to warrant visitors, or perhaps advertisers to be interested.

      If the Paywall isn't working, why is that? Is the subscription price too high? Or is the content too poor to be worth the asking price?

      It seems like other mediums were purely ad supported for a long time. Broadcast TV. Print Magazines. Even Newspapers primarily got their revenue from ads rather than subscriptions.

      Another problem with the ads is that they need to be quite different than ads are today. Static inline images from the originating website. No JavaScript. No malware. No bitcoin mining. There is a REASON people use ad blockers. And hey, if even your non-animated static no-javascript ads are too numerous, or too obnoxious, then I will solve the problem by not visiting your site again. Or you could charge the advertiser more for the ad impression. If the advertiser won't pay, then maybe your business model is broken. Either way, not my problem.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    11. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      No. I'm suggesting that there are always easy solutions. But they are not necessarily good ideas.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    12. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

      I think that ship sailed years ago, and it wasn't falling advertising revenue (although I'm sure news organizations will try to blame that) -- It was plain corporate greed.

      In today's reality-entertainment-fueled culture news organizations realized content filled more with Op-Ed than hard fact-finding still passed off as a "news report", and was much cheaper than investigating stories, staffing people to check facts before press, maintaining foreign bureaus, or flying reporters to locations to get the story.

      You don't have to check facts on suppositions and opinions, and people will accept it as a legitimate story when the same talking head on the screen is giving it.

    13. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by tattood · · Score: 2

      So you're suggesting extending single signon to actually be a clearing house for paywalls? Not a bad idea.

      This will end up with companies like Comcast or Cox that offer a "news bundle" service that you pay $50 a month for, and you get access to 10 different news sites. For an additional $10 a month, you get the premium package that includes Wall Street Journal and other sites.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    14. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy. Replace people with AI - profit.

    15. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by sheph · · Score: 2

      And neither of them are producing anything approaching a fraction of that value.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    16. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...I fail to see how this problem is different than how the printing press put the screws to other means of information dissemination back in the day...

      Because copying via printing press was still an involved process, and required physical copies and those copies would have to be shipped to other people.

    17. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar.

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

    18. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like they donâ(TM)t get paid. The thing is that content creators get paid or there would simply not be any content today.

      How much does a reporter get paid? $50-100k/year and about $300k in gear, office space and supporting people. They have to cover maybe $5-15M/year for a good olâ(TM) regional reporting and publishing team.

      They charge about 10k/hour of ad space regionally and about $1M for national coverage (thatâ(TM)s based on the price list for IHeartRadio networks so Iâ(TM)m being very generous in assuming the cost for video and site coverage averages to the same).

      The problem is that the managers at CNN see milllions of hits on their site and although getting plenty of revenue from advertising already, they see each hit as a potential person that could pay as well as watch advertising.

      CNN and co arenâ(TM)t going broke, even if they were short on cash, politicians will make sure their message continues to go through.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    19. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by TharMonk · · Score: 1

      I agree with this, wholeheartedly. I found myself regularly visiting the copious amounts of content pouring out of the Washington Post, more than other papers, and I sometimes see they have some "deal" for a month for $1, but, when I actually go to investigate it, it winds up being $10 a month. Sorry, but news that I'll soon find everywhere else isn't worth $10 a month, to me, whereas $1 a month would've been fine, given the amount of times I find myself landing on one of their articles. Apparently, Amazon Prime has a deal with them, to allow prime subscribers 6 months free, after which their digital subscription renews at $4, which is _almost_ okay, but it's not quite tempting enough for me to pull the trigger. I realize that this is somewhat irrational, on my part, given that that's the cost of an overpriced cup of coffee, but the fact is, there's nothing in the Washington Post that won't wind up extensively covered for free, soon after it appears on the Post.

    20. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      It is also a lot cheaper now to generate content. People forget that. You don't need a printing press or a huge infrastructure.

    21. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

      Easy solution: Build a wall around the paywalls and make the paywalls pay for it.

      So... Yo dawg, I heard you like paywalls, so I put some paywalls around your paywalls.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    22. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by WheezyJoe · · Score: 1

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar.

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Actually, daily delivery subscriptions DID cost that much and more, at least for the big papers like the NYT, Wash Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, etc., particularly if the big fat Sunday edition was included. And that was still a bargain over buying a copy at the newsstand.

      Adjust for inflation, $15/mo. is a deal.

      I'd first say internet users have short memories, but we more remember everything being free, because it used to be slow and experimental and buggy and... mostly free of spam and trolls (yeah, yeah, get off my lawn). Truth is, lots of Internet users would rather spend $15/mo. on something else... like Netflix, HBO, Hulu-plus, the Sling ESPN package... shucks, if you have to actually read the thing rather than just watch it, it's like you're putting in half the work!

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    23. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Otherwise, refunds and lawsuits will be the order of the day.

      I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on Mr Internet Tough Guy over here.

      Fox and CNN are both cable channels, and I haven't heard about you suing them---whichever one you happen to hate.

    24. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by flink · · Score: 1

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Back in my paperboy days (mid 90s), 7-day delivery of the Boston Globe cost something like $5-$7/week, plus you had to tip the paper boy. The Sunday edition alone costed $1.50 in print. $15/mo for the online edition seems fairly reasonable in comparison, especially adjusted for inflation. I think we've just been conditioned to not pay for news over the past 20 years.

    25. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      They've already solved it: They don't investigate anything. They pass off op-ed as news reporting.

    26. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      The last time I subscribed to a major metro newspaper, it cost me $10/mo for the daily (the Sunday was extra). That's what I'm remembering. Of course, I haven't run it through the inflation calculator...

    27. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      I would not trade all the negatives that come with single sign on dystopias just to fund screeds written by ideologues passing themselves off as journalists.

    28. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by brewthatistrue · · Score: 4, Informative

      In 2001, NYTimes increased newsstand prices in southern california to $0.50 with $1.50 for sunday.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02...

      I have no idea how much a delivery subscription cost at that time.

      That's $0.50 * 52 weeks * 6 days = $156.

      Add Sunday for $1.50 * 52 weeks * 1 day = $78.

      Add those and you get $234.

      A $15/mo subscription is $180.

      I am not sure how much of the NYT's costs come from the printing and distribution of phyisical newspapers, but I would have expected the prices to go down as a result of the digital editions.

      Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising, so they aren't really passing the straight costs onto their users anyway. That's why many sites still have advertising even for their paying subscribers, which is a deal breaker for me.

    29. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Is it? True, anyone can just throws words on the page, but creating and verifying accurate, factual, useful content takes time. And skill. And money.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    30. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by WheezyJoe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising

      Their costs were also heavily subsidized by classified ads. Huge source of revenue for any newspaper, large or small, now completely gone thanks to Craigslist, e-bay, etc. etc. That's a large part of the revenue that has to be made up since the glory days before the Internet.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    31. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What did it cost you to recycle the newsprint? How much carbon did the delivery and disposal cost?

    32. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by eddeye · · Score: 1

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Here's the kicker. The physical paper subscription is much cheaper - and it includes unlimited digital access. Check out the plans. Digital only for $100 / year or Sunday paper + digital sub for $40 / year. This is insane. I would sign up for the $40 a year plan to get digital access - but I refuse to have their nasty dead tree pulp deposited on my driveway.

      Even when newspapers go digital they fuck it up. Newspapers deserve to die if this is all the better they can do. Wasn't Bezos supposed to save WaPo? You can't teach and old dog new tricks.

      --
      Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    33. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep in mind $1 in 2001 is about equal to $1.38 in 2017 purchasing power.

    34. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      What did it cost you to recycle the newsprint?

      Nothing. I'm showing my age, but in those days, the Boy Scouts would pick up all your old newspapers and sell them to recyclers to make a few bucks.

    35. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the day, if you had a subscription to the NYT - for 90% of subscribers, that's probably the only newspaper they subscribed to.

      Now we've become accustomed to picking and mixing from half a dozen or more different websites. In the near future, that's going to be an expensive way to get your news.

    36. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by antdude · · Score: 1

      President Trump, is that you with your dick breath? :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    37. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be comparing apples and oranges there. The All Online offer is likely the standard rate. It is likely that is shown on their circulation rate cards. The $40/year plan is likely a promo of sorts (Holiday Gift special, perhaps). Either it's a once and done deal $40/yr for year one, and $120/yr for year two (assuming that's the Sunday + Online rate card rate), or it could be a chain of promos going up slightly every year (sort of like a cable or cell bill).

      An opposite approach would be to have a stiff entry fee - that base $100 year, for example, and then a 10% off loyalty discount next year (up to a max of 30-40% off), to encourage folks to stay. In my experience, newspapers seem to want to do the opposite - start low, and then raise the price to the maximum that the consumer will bear.

    38. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      Major newspapers have been a $1 per day for a long time. Wall Street Journal went to $1.50 per issue in 2007. Subscription rates were $32, I think. Nowadays, print price subscription is $38/month. Similar rates for paper can be found across NYTimes, LATimes, and all the papers in between across the country. The cost of maintaining servers, secure sign-ons, archives... these things have taken the place of printing, so although overhead is likely smaller than it would be with paper and distro, it isn't zero, and paying the journalists/editors/delivery(now IT) staff has always been the most expensive aspect anyway. And all of that is BEFORE accounting for inflation.

      Bottom line: reliable news costs real money. And $15/month for online is very reasonable when you look at the cost of supplying that content.

    39. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how do the people who create content get paid?

      They don't. Their content is worthless.

      As worthless as a Detroit autoworkers labour.
      As worthless as an indebted college student's degree.
      As worthless as the interest on a Treasury Bond.
      As worthless as money paid in rack-rent to a BtL landlord.
      As worthless as an effort to compete with cheap overseas imports.

      The content of newspapers, to a lesser degree pubished literature, over the last 30 years is less than worthless to people. It is propaganda, actively hostile to their interests. Newspapers are a vehicle for corporate interests, and a rolling car-bomb for the square of public debate. The sooner they media up and dies due to lack of funding, the sooner we can get get back to having rationa, critical, constructive debate about the direction of our country, without some vicious media mercenaries eating our faces off for it.

    40. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Eythian · · Score: 1

      I've been thinking the same. I just bought a nice tablet, and am looking for good larger form things to use with it. So far, I have a handful of newsy type sites bookmarked, and a subscription for The Guardian (€15/mo, which provides an OK app that mixes the linear newspaper flow with the advantages of being on digital) for breakfast reading. I've been wanting to add something like, I dunno, National Geographic or New Scientist or something to that, but I have to be choosy before it ends up costing more than I want to spend.

      I think the days of having a single newspaper and perhaps a magazine or so subscription should go away (now that there's not really quite the same concept of local), but the prices don't reflect that. I think if they were more like €3-5/mo I'd subscribe to a lot more. I already have a few things on Patreon etc, so it's not like I'm unwilling. But €15 feels big enough to not want to do it to many times over.

    41. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar. That just two sites for $30. One quickly runs out of money to pay for a reasonable collection of different editorial stances and investigative journalism.

      The current situation also means small sites that do not need much to spew their "contents" have an oversize influence. They do not have to pay for investigative journalism, or quality op-eds.

      Exactly. This is the statu quo ante 1995. The Internet is pretty much finished. To think that its promise used to be so great... Sad.

    42. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, Fox News is shit

    43. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikitribune already solved it. https://www.wikitribune.com/

      Thanks again, Jimmy Wales!

    44. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by strikethree · · Score: 1

      This is a problem that needs to be solved.

      Why does it need to be solved?

      Since copying content has become easy, how do the people who create content get paid? How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

      That is not a problem I need to solve. I pay (quite handsomely) for digital content that I like. Steam (for games mostly) is one such platform.

      As for "News" organizations? If they were truly giving me news instead of programming my expectations and biases (and other psychological warfare bullshit), I might actually pay for them too.

      There are no easy solutions.

      I don't care. Let it all disappear.

      Actually, within a few months, it will all disappear for me anyways. Once there is no more "Network Neutrality", I will elect to stop participating entirely. Thank god I have pirate backups of all of my Steam games (that I play on Linux).

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    45. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      The Guardian doesn't have a paywall or ads (just a few paid articles down near the bottom). They ask for either a one-time or on-going monthly contribution. If you don't give anything then they just keep the request at the bottom of articles but don't restrict your access. So if you think $15/month is too much you could make it $10/month or just $20 one time.

    46. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What does it cost me? I dump it in my recycling bin and wheel that to the curb every other Monday.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Also, with the physical paper, the ads are sitting there on the page I'm reading. There's no such thing as Adblock Plus for paper.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Eyeballs you need to view your adds.

    1. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Somehow, newspapers thrived for hundreds of years by simply placing Ads on the periphery of the news stories. Nothing obscured your view of the story, nothing crawled across the bottom, etc. Advertisers provided the lions share of their revenue.

      Now the Ads drive people away. They get blocked and advertisers see no return on their investment...hence the need for Paywalls.

      Perhaps if your ads weren't so fucking obnoxious and intrusive.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, they use paywalls instead of ads.

    3. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newspapers had monthly/semi/annual subscriptions. Without a subscription, you bought single copies, or went to a library where a lot of people shared access to a single copy. Sounds like a paywall to me. The plus side on advertising was that it was usually fairly discreet - you could read the news without be forced to look at ads. Oh es, and there were ads too.

      Ads were visual/text things only, not active items attempting to take over your computer and track you everywhere (as well as monopolizing your attention with flashing and animation). If web advertising could be as "polite" as print, it might be blocked less, but we've gotten used to it being at least moderately evil so that train has left the station.

      Finally, there were always tabloids, many of which actually were free, usually focusing on entertainment or some other subject that could support a lot of advertising (and they had low- or non-paid staff, too). And self-published stuff, which got very poor distribution. That's what we'll be left with in terms of free web sites - tabloids and self-publishing, the latter without hope of revenue other than by donation. And of course relegated to the lowest-speed "public" tier of access (after all, the Internet may be free, but it isn't free to provide the Internet).

      Blocking ads will become a federal offense at some point. Mark my words...

    4. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if your ads weren't so fucking obnoxious and intrusive.

      Oh come now. Just because those sites want to inject malware, and don't give a fuck when it also drains your bank account and refuse to accept any responsibility when the ransomware also gets installed because they refuse to vet any ads isn't their fault.

      You're just stealing from them or something. Really this is the type of stuff in-browser crypto mining should be for, visit the site knock out some CPU power, they get paid in whatever funds, and can cash it out. Now all you need to do is get the malware companies to stop flagging it as malware.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  4. Problem by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I may sign up for one subscription, but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

    1. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you will need to decrease the number of websites that you visit. Back before the internet, you had a handful of magazine subscriptions that you read, if you had time, cover to cover. You couldn't get a hundred different articles from 85 different magazine sent to you each month onesy-twosy. Because the economics of that are ridiculous. We're just having to relearn that for the digital era, that's all.

    2. Re:Problem by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the problem.

      It would be nice if there could be some sort of "online news bundle". Pay $10 a month and have access to a dozen or so newspapers. The system would distribute that $10 as appropriate to the papers depending on which ones I read the most.

      I don't want to have 15 different subscriptions! This is already becoming a problem in the streaming video world, with every company starting its own streaming service. I don't want it to become a problem for newspapers too.

      I have this desire to support the industry but don't want to have so many subscriptions. Find a way to bundle things and I may bite.

    3. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, did someone leave a window open? It looks like a snowflake blew in.

      Have some whine, snowflake.

    4. Re: Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My local paper just reprinted AP stories. We had the internet before the internet, I just had to pay for it.

    5. Re:Problem by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Same with TV!

      It would be nice if there could be some kind of TV bundle.

      I don't want to have 15 different subscriptions to HBO, Starz, Netflix, Disney, NBC... Can't I just pay one company to bundle it all together?

      Oh wait....

    6. Re:Problem by Thyamine · · Score: 1

      This is the problem with subscriptions, I completely agree. I find it to be the same with streaming content. Ok I want Netflix, but now there's Amazon.. and Hulu.. and wait to watch the new Star Trek I have to buy a subscription for CBS who already broadcasts on TV? What?

      At least with newspaper or news sites, we were already doing this. If I wanted the New York Times, I had to buy a copy, or get a subscription. If we can get day passes for the price (or less) of a paper, or get subscriptions similarly, it makes sense. I _do_ want legit news stories and reporters doing real investigations though; not just some intern who is cobbling snippets from other headlines.

      --
      I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
    7. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My local newspaper takes care of this for me - they have commercial agreements with other newspapers to share content. I do not get access to the other newspapers but I get to read the stories that are "cherry picked" for me by my local newspaper. To date, this has been good enough. To put it simply, I don't care if a cat in a tree needs to be rescued from a tree in some obscure neighborhood but I might very well be interested in freeways being shut, etc.

    8. Re:Problem by tattood · · Score: 1

      you had a handful of magazine subscriptions that you read, if you had time, cover to cover. You couldn't get a hundred different articles from 85 different magazine sent to you each month onesy-twosy.

      That's what the grocery store and news stands were for. You could go and peruse through the magazines on display, and only buy the ones that had articles you were interested in.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    9. Re:Problem by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I may sign up for one subscription, but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

      The problem isn't really the number of sites, it's the per site cost. I'm willing to get multiple subscriptions, but most websites have a VERY inflated sense of what their content is worth.

    10. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called a "library" dumbass.

    11. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you will need to decrease the number of websites that you visit.

      Wrong. Vendor, you never, ever tell this customer what he "needs" to do. Got it?

      I will read whatever the fuck, from however many the fuck, sites I want to.

    12. Re:Problem by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      I want almost exactly the opposite of you. IMHO, nearly every single "bundle" in my life is a scam, where someone is using something I like to get me to subsidize something I think is lame and worthless. WTF do I care if I'm paying multiple entities? That's easy; we have computers now. The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want.

      What you are proposing is to lose all progress made in the last couple decades, and it sounds like I'd fund the people I like less than I do now.

      I want everything as fine-grained and micro-managed by me, as possible. (And just like the billing "problem"(?), we have computers now so what's-possible is going to be damn impressive.) When I "vote with my wallet" I do not want to fucking vote party ticket!! Every time I'm manipulated into doing otherwise, it's with resentment.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    13. Re:Problem by bradley.uffner2292 · · Score: 1

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      I want almost exactly the opposite of you. IMHO, nearly every single "bundle" in my life is a scam, where someone is using something I like to get me to subsidize something I think is lame and worthless. WTF do I care if I'm paying multiple entities? That's easy; we have computers now. The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want.

      What you are proposing is to lose all progress made in the last couple decades, and it sounds like I'd fund the people I like less than I do now.

      I want everything as fine-grained and micro-managed by me, as possible. (And just like the billing "problem"(?), we have computers now so what's-possible is going to be damn impressive.) When I "vote with my wallet" I do not want to fucking vote party ticket!! Every time I'm manipulated into doing otherwise, it's with resentment.

      The problem is, what would have been bundled as 10 things at $10 a month for the bundle, will now be sole separately as 10 things at $9 each.

    14. Re:Problem by tepples · · Score: 1

      I will read whatever the fuck, from however many the fuck, sites I want to.

      Then be prepared to pay however much the fuck, these sites charge.

    15. Re:Problem by n329619 · · Score: 1

      The problem is, what would have been bundled as 10 things at $10 a month for the bundle, will now be sole separately as 10 things at $9 each.

      Fair point. Interesting thing is that higher sole pricing might still be ok for op and the seller (publisher/distributor/whatever for the subscription). The seller gets to get the same profit from sole subscription (fewer people picking it, higher price) and bundles (more people picking it, lower price), while op can still support with his wallet.

    16. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://blendle.com/
      Gives you curated articles from the NYT, Economist, WSJ, etc., with pay-per-read per article read. You get a daily summary of articles with links to the paid view for each article. You can also get a refund from anything you don't like.
      BR

    17. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      ... The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want. ...

      No. What is going to happen is you are going to pay more or much more and you will likely get less or much less content than what you were used to. Do you like opposing viewpoints occasionally? You will probably be seeing them lots less under this plan. As for content being smaller - if a content provider has to pay a third party (e.g. an ISP) more to serve the content, then there will be less money for the generation of content.

      Multiple subscriptions goes hand in hand with net neutrality. You pay around $70/mo for Internet. Now, for it to be classified as broadband, it has to be between 768k and 1.5Mbits down, and you are probably subscribed to something that is between 20 and 80 Mbits down. ISPs can (and will) throttle all non-prioritized (non-fast-lane) content down to that 1.5 or 3 Mbit (max), now the over-subscription is no longer a problem. Videos can be auto scaled to 480p and even smaller (480i or 240p) if you are a video 'abuser'. Latency increases, but only gamers and maybe remote workers care about that.

      You create content? We like you. Great! Pay us $500 a month (* # of nationwide and regional ISPs) to be in a fast lane, or your going to be serving your website up off of the equivalent of 1999 asymmetric DSL connection.

      You like your Netflix? Don't want us to auto-downgrade those videos to SD? Great! You can bundle it with your cable + internet subscription for an additional $11 month. Oh? You cut the cord? That's too bad. You can keep your Internet only connection (that you pay an additional $10 for) and pay another additonal $5 a month for the video streaming package. And no 4K allowed unless you have the cable package. I'll limit you to one 4K movie a week.

      Gaming? That'll be an additional $15 to $20 a month to get reasonable ping times and an increase to your download cap. The cap will be sufficient for one AAA game per month.

      You want to work from home? Use a VPN or a remote desktop? Fine. Upgrade to the business tier. Plans start at $99.99. We block ports 3389, 4000, 7070, 5900-5925, and 6000-6025 for your protection from hackers, unless you have a business plan.

      What's that? Speak up! Oh, you want the naughty bits of the Internet? Those parts we completely block to keep the Internet family friendly? That's covered by the "Playful" package. That'll be an additional $15 a month, and you need to put your name on this form so that you can be monitored ... err, whitelisted by our great firewall. Also covered by the firewall - subversive sites: huffington post, slashdot, et al.

      Development? $5 month for access to GitHub, GitLab, BitBucket, MSDN, and so on.

      File sharing? That violates the ToS, so no, you cannot do that. If you are file sharing, you are likely one of the 1% that uses 99% of the bandwidth. We cannot have that, you don't get that no matter how much you pay. I don't care if it's Linux distros or World of Warcraft, we are blocking that. Oh, wait, boss says that Activision paid us extra, their torrents will go through.

       

      TL;DR Information wants to be free. The producers of the information don't. ISPs (via the destruction of Net Neutrality) want a cut of the information action, too. That will put a serious squeeze on the smaller information outlets.

    18. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      I want almost exactly the opposite of you. IMHO, nearly every single "bundle" in my life is a scam, where someone is using something I like to get me to subsidize something I think is lame and worthless. WTF do I care if I'm paying multiple entities? That's easy; we have computers now. The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want.

      What you are proposing is to lose all progress made in the last couple decades, and it sounds like I'd fund the people I like less than I do now.

      I want everything as fine-grained and micro-managed by me, as possible. (And just like the billing "problem"(?), we have computers now so what's-possible is going to be damn impressive.) When I "vote with my wallet" I do not want to fucking vote party ticket!! Every time I'm manipulated into doing otherwise, it's with resentment.

      You're the kind of special idiot who fails to realize we haven't made progress at all, and in the end it WILL cost you more money than ever before.

      Netflix is a bundle comprised of 95% of shit you don't care about and 5% of content you want. Same goes for Amazon Prime, Hulu Plus, HBO...the list grows more and more each day. Before you know it, you've got a dozen bundles of shit of which you still only consume 5% of the aggregate. Next year, they'll ALL increase their cost per month by one dollar. You'll dismiss it because after all, it's only a "little" increase. Five years and two dozen "little" increases from now you'll be wondering how the fuck your more-of-what-you-want bill got to $250/month.

      That "ripoff" bundled cable service was replaced by two dozen streaming subscriptions, which you ignorantly justify as "winning".

    19. Re:Problem by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      Most sites are charging what is required to continue producing that information. When I've looked into budgets for a couple news orgs, the subscription costs are pretty much inline with the production costs, with a moderate but pretty narrow profit margin. If that cost isn't worth the cost to all of us, those sites will go away -- which has happened to most of the nation's local newspapers. It's really hard in most parts of the country to get local news because there's no one reporting it anymore.

    20. Re:Problem by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      Considering how the media is consolidating the same way all other businesses are the idea that this is going to become a reality in 10 years or less. At that point it's probably just going to take is for two or three companies to agree on sharing a paywall and $10 or $20 a month (plus inflation adjustments) is going to be way more than the total per-click revenue you're going to be able to generate them no matter how much clickbait they produce.

      All in all it's now pretty clear that the ad funded model people have thought would be able to sustain media since the dot.com boom is not going to be able to sustain media and the media is going to have to go back to relying on being getting their revenue from their readers/viewers and advertisers rather than just the advertisers.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    21. Re:Problem by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      Never, I am on the net since 1991, and I will never pay to read an article or view a video or whatever, I clicked 2 or 3 times on an ad to help site like /., that's it, my brain ignores ads on website. If a website nags you or ask for FB registration or whatever, I put it in my personnal blocklist so google search will not display them

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    22. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

      Ok, let's use the toll road model. Every article is 3 Yen (because reasons). You can either submit a payment each time you try to open an article, or you can attach an account that is automatically deducted for each article you open. If that's not enough, you can also buy an unlimited articles subscription, which gets back to exactly what you said you won't do.

      If you add the word "distinct" to a few key places in there and back it up with a big server-side database tracking all your purchases, you instead get the point-buy MMORPG model.

    23. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may sign up for one subscription, but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

      Most pay-walled news outlets let you read 10 articles per month, or something like that. Chose some 15 news sites and cycle among them:

      CNN
      NYTimes
      LA Times
      Salon
      The Atlantic
      Chicago Tribune
      WaPo
      Times Picayune
      Independent
      Telegraph
      Le Monde
      El Pais
      Guardian

      And The Other Side...

      Breitbart
      Fox News
      Daily Caller
      The American Expectator

    24. Re:Problem by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Re-read the parent again. It says that the money would be split according to usage of the websites which is what you want. It's not micro transactions but it's not needed. A simple percentage of page hits would be fair enough to split up the monthly fee as long as they didn't create pages that pop out as part of the articles.

    25. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't micropayments look like a perfect fit for blockchain / bitcoin ? A public ledger to verify your blockchain account deductions for every page / article.

    26. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what is insightful about a post that complains about a problem with someone else's idea, when that problem is already explicitly covered in the original idea. The original post clearly said the payment would be distributed to the sites you actually use, which means you wouldn't be subsidising sites you think are "lame and worthless" unless you spend a lot of time visiting them anyway.

  5. The amount of news I need to see has decreased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

    1. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by shmlco · · Score: 2

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that accurate and factual national and international news is definitely essential information.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

    3. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      As a former news junkie I can tell you that ignorance is time-saving. Unless you are "in the biz" whatever that business is, being well informed about a bunch of things that don't directly effect you and you have no real influence over is a distraction from the things that really matter in your life. Yes it is hard to sort that out, what is relevant or not, but I would have to say that being able to proactively search out information from primary sources in many instances is of far more benefit than sifting through a myriad of news stories for the story of the day.

      I still read a lot, but I am trying to read fewer and fewer article and paywalls make that decision easier.

    4. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by tattood · · Score: 4, Funny

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      Thank you for your valuable input, Mr President.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    5. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by sheph · · Score: 2

      Yes. Finding it is the challenge.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    6. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by WheezyJoe · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      Thank you for your valuable input, Mr President.

      Indeed. From the horse's mouth, "I Love the Poorly Educated".

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    7. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      2017 taught me that it's all FAKE NEWS, so why bother paying for it?

  6. Okay, and... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

    Honestly? I have no problems paying a sub to visit the WSJ and/or similar trusted, thorough news sources. Maybe as a bonus it'll knock the clickbait bullshit sites offline? Likely not, since many of those sites (especially political clickbait sites) usually have massive backers (e.g. MoveOn was launched and backed financially by George Soros, etc.)

    Something to consider - maybe freebie sites that don't have a massive media presence in another medium (or some other visible and transparent means of non-biased/partisan financial support) should eventually be written off as mere propaganda sites? Certainly there are good sites that are small and struggling, that try to get it right, that do a decent job of investigation and such, but they seem to be very few and very far between these days. Just a thought.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Okay, and... by gtall · · Score: 2

      Nope, there are too many people who are happy with the echo chambers they visit. They wouldn't recognize propaganda if it danced naked in front of them.

    2. Re:Okay, and... by Alypius · · Score: 1

      No, people will just read a headline for free, make assumptions based on their beliefs, and then convince themselves that they know what the article talked about. Just like they do now.

    3. Re:Okay, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd subscribe to that.

  7. Good by Tailhook · · Score: 0

    The grifters of NY and the beltway can pay each other for their private echo chamber. The less exposure everyone else has to it the better.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    1. Re:Good by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      As long as there are activist billionaires, I suspect the propaganda organs among them will still have income if they truly need it.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This will be great for people who have money and want to push an agenda. As more and more content becomes paywalled, non-paywalled content will become more viewed, since many viewers won't have the willingness or inclination to pay for the content. Organizations that don't need income from viewers will continue to leave their content non-paywalled.

  8. Tired of paywalls? Disable JavaScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one. The Financial Times has one. The Wall Street Journal has one. The New Yorker has one."

    They're all soft, not hard.

  9. Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a finite amount people are willing to spend on things like access to web sites ... in my case that number is exactly zero.

    Block people, people stop coming, ad revenue stops happening, since nobody visits your site you no longer show up in a search result ... and then people stop coming, ad revenue stops happening ...

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    At the end of the day, sites which throw up a paywall get added to my browser's block list, subsequent clicks will show me an error, and I'll click my back button. Pretty much every Aussie news site became dead to me a few years ago because they are the most insistent on cookies I've ever seen -- sorry dude, but fuck off.

    I don't miss them, they don't miss me ... I guess you could say it's a win-win. If the internet is just going to keep devolving into a shit hole of ads and paywalls, I'll have less reason to use it.

    1. Re:Until it backfires ... by edtice1559 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay. I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny. I have no idea why anybody would expect to get their news for free. Real journalism is a resource-intensive process that has to be funded. Now I don't *like* the current paywalls in that I often get blocked from content I've paid for since I haven't logged in on a particular device or linked a publisher to a specific account. But having the price for quality news set at zero is nonsensical.

    2. Re:Until it backfires ... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't mind paying, but I do mind paying AND being annoyed.

      I dropped my NYT subscription because it showed the same unstoppable video, the same annoying adverts and the same Nicholas Kristof whining. I expected the latter but not the former.

      And quit pestering me to get a gift subscription to somebody else.

      Absolutely tasteless. So no money to them.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay

      You're joking, right? The internet devolved into a shithole of ads, malware, and scams from the very first days of Flash, popups, and those goddamned "punch the monkey" ads. And it's only gotten worse.

      Over time, the degree to which you need to block 3rd party javascript, analytics, and other crap has gotten insane. I'd say the average web page has around 10 external parasites ... and I'm sorry, but I didn't sign up with them and didn't agree to their terms of service, which is why I block them ruthlessly.

      Trusting any online entity with your actual name or financial information is just making you a target for getting your information stolen when they inevitably get hacked.

      Sorry, but the greedy douchebags and assholes started this, and the reality is they've pretty much fucked up the whole game for everyone else.

      For now, there's a remarkable amount of national broadcasters around the globe with good quality free content to let you get different editorial slants. But most media in the US these days is increasingly owned by a hand full of rich assholes, who I have no intention of enriching.

      So, you'll forgive me for not giving a fuck, when ads have been a source of malware and other bullshit for almost as long as we've had web browsers. Kill off some of those parasites, give me an internet I can trust, and sites who I can rely on to have some decent security, and we'll talk.

      But incompetent idiots with shit security are just the icing on the cake as far as why the paid internet can go fuck themselves.

    4. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny.

      How so? Have any of them helped you earn, or save, even a subscription's worth in a year?

    5. Re:Until it backfires ... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay. I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny.

      Well, only one (the Economist) is. The rest have devolved into holdovers from the days of Yellow Journalism.

      Now, the preceding opinion is *why* your assertion isn't as clear-cut. To wit, what you think to be "worth every penny", others may think of as propaganda organs for $politicalParty. But then, such people will happily pay for their favored news sites of choice. Or, like in my case, would only bother with paying for subs to sites (WSJ, Economist, and similar) that carefully unearth and curate the straight news with as little bias as possible, and not bend/twist/mutilate it to fit the political narratives of their ownership. Sites that provide actual insight an analysis, with no regard to any particular political view or ideology.

      Those sites are few and far between, while clickbait political propaganda organs are more plentiful than blades of grass in Iowa.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    6. Re:Until it backfires ... by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      People expect to get their news for free because that is what they have done their whole lives. Print newspapers charged a small minimal fee but their main revenue was from advertising, just like it is now. The problem is they lost their vertical integration and someone else owns the printing presses.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    7. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do they still have ads and analytic scripts on the paid content?

    8. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paying for the washington post of all things just proves you're a fucking moron idiot consumer and a good little sheeple.

      Which isn't helping the case for paying for sites.

      Really.

    9. Re:Until it backfires ... by link-error · · Score: 1

      "Those sites are few and far between"

        So you've found some? Care to share?

      --
      -Unresolved symbol? Byte me!
    10. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The price for quality journalism is not zero. Which is perhaps one reason why web journalism has devolved to tabloid-style re-tweeting. The only "wire services" - wholesale news-gatherers - left are places like Reuters that somehow made a transition to retail distribution.

      The WEB (not the Internet, which is the set of physical and logical connections that it works over) does seem to be devolving. Early-on, it was largely an educational and government device (along with email and similar things using The Internet). It still is, if you can find the fundamental sites through the noise of ads and meta-interpreters. But that isn't "The Internet" as seen by most people. So what we're getting is the result of unregulated communication - a cacaphony of ads, screamers, puffery, and occasional nuggets of actual information.

      In a way, it might be attractive to have a largely non-neutral net that is obligated to carry, at least through low-speed channels, things of public interest like research results, educational materials, government activities and publications, and the like, but otherwise is free to monetize things to its users hearts content. To a limited degree, aggressive use of ad-blockers and the like might allow access to the paywalled info (NYT at one time allowed free access to a certain number of articles before locking down, and could be defeated by clearing the cache and history before trying again), but for the most part people would pay for a few good sites that provide arguably factual and/or entertaining content. Would certainly make my bookmarks file smaller...

      Amusing: PBS actually is well ahead of some of the commercial sites wrt paywalls. Most of their good shows can only be seen online if you're a large enough donor at a local station, or if you wait a year or 2 for it to show up (authorized or not) on YouTube.

    11. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He already said WSJ and Economist

    12. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nakedcapitalism.com's Lambert Strether is a breath of fresh air, one of the few with the guts to fight through the garbage that is public discourse in America.

      Or you can do it the easy way, and go to any domain in .fr, but you have to understand French. Sorry, Americans.

    13. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NYT/WP oh my dear sweet-pea you blissfully consume pure neo-Trotsky propaganda while lecturing others on their resolve . And you say paying makes you feel warm and caring ?? Welcome to the Emotocent anthill. As an independent American yeoman ... not! You are well and truly fucked !

    14. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because I simply don't care about their "news".

    15. Re:Until it backfires ... by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      I obviously have no way to quantify this, but as my job involves interacting with people, knowing what's going on in the world certain seems like a basic prerequisite. And the annual cost of all of the subscriptions is about my hourly pay rate, so I would say that yes, we can conclude that the subscriptions more than pay for themselves.

    16. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Maybe the reason that the news is devolving is your unwillingness to pay"

      FTFY!

      the Internet has nothing to do with your argument, the news does. Look at what you posted from a logical sense and you can see that the conclusion that you meant to reach i have stated above, this is based on the content of your premises that you filled your comment with.

      The internet in general is devolving because society is devolving and society is devolving because it makes someone profit. Happy, content and calm people tend not to spend money as much as people who are worked up, on edge and pretty much afraid of everything. Sewing strife and conflict has long been a source of profit in human history going back thousands of years, the difference is today the internet gives more access to the people.

      We will never reach a Utopian society because there is no profit in it. Like the old saying goes "if it bleeds, it leads", if nothing ever bleeds then what is the point of having major news agencies?

  10. I wonder by zippo01 · · Score: 1

    This could be interesting when looked at in the net neutrality conversation. Pay for CNN, get internet access to CNN. The paywall is the connection? Maybe. On yhe other hand who care if you have a connection if every website is pay walled? I refuse to pay for anything on the internet. I see this ending badly for pay walled placed like nyt, CNN, etc.

    1. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder why so many people who are for Net Neutrality are OK with this. How does this promote a free and open internet. Oh wait it doesn't... OK the internet is regulated and free, but you can't do anything because you have to pay for every site. I see it now, "Im sorry you must pay to post on this site", "You must pay to watch this video", "you must pay to learn what is going on the the world". This is by far a bigger threat then net neutrality rules.

    2. Re:I wonder by shmlco · · Score: 2

      "I refuse to pay for anything on the internet."

      Then you get nothing but the crap you deserve.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    3. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's up to CNN how they monetize their own product. They can serve ads or put it behind a paywall if they want to because it belongs to them.

      On the other hand having the ISP charge you extra (beyond the normal internet service price) for access to something they didn't produce is extortion.

    4. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder why so many people who are for Net Neutrality are OK with this.

      Where do you see evidence that they are? I haven't seen any either way.

      However, it makes perfect sense. Those who are for net neutrality think that if people pay for access to the internet, the people who run those networks shouldn't be able to double-dip by making sites pay to allow those people (prioritized) access to their sites.

      Said sites charging visitors for content once they get there has nothing whatsoever to do with net neutrality. After all, it's a free country (sort of). If someone thinks their musings are so valuable that people will pay to see them, they are (and should be) perfectly free to try.

    5. Re:I wonder by zippo01 · · Score: 1

      That is way double talk! its ok for the site to charge what ever, but not the provider? Why should I have to pay for internet services and speeds I don't need to subsidize everyone else? Why shouldn't services who use more resources pay more then those who don't? They are both providing a service, you either say the internet is open and free in which case net neutrality and no pay walls, or it a capitalist free system and everything goes. Not half of one and half the other. Picking winners and losers like that will make everyone losers in the end.

    6. Re:I wonder by WheezyJoe · · Score: 2

      People STILL don't know what Net Neutrality is about.
      Net Neutrality is not that all content should be free from content creators. Paywalls are just fine. Net Neutrality is about what the guy-in-the-middle can do, your ISP, the guy who's supposed to just shut up and deliver the packets, but who now thinks he's got the right to add a little extra for himself.

      Net Neutrality rules prevent your ISP, and any intermediate provider between you and your content, from inspecting what it delivers to you before it delivers to you, and charging the sender a fee to deliver it to you.

      Think Comcast, which owns Universal, billing Disney for the delivery of its packets along the last mile to your house. Why? Because Comcast owns the wires and the equipment between you and the rest of Internet, because streaming Disney movies requires a lot of Comcast's bandwidth (think equipment upgrades, more fiber, angry customers saying service sucks), and why should Disney get all the money (from your subscription with Disney) when Comcast's wires are crucial to you consuming the content? The MBA's at Comcast feel like they are doing Disney a service, providing this last mile of delivery, and with their monopoly over subscription territory, they got Disney by the balls, so it's time to give 'em a squeeze.

      Net Neutrality means delivering Internet is boring... shut up and deliver, regardless of content or sender. On December 14, this rule will disappear (on a party-line vote), and delivering Internet will become super-exciting, because ISP's can discriminate between one packet and another, throttling some content and expediting others. So, Disney may have to charge you a dollar more to stream that movie because, too bad, you're on Comcast and Comcast throttles non-Universal content; your friend on FIOS may get Disney cheaper because Verizon chooses not to throttle Disney packets. Or maybe Disney will just hike up subscription fees on everybody, just to be safe. Gee, ain't de-regulation great. May weasels eat Ajit Pai's eyes out and piss up his nostrils.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    7. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is way double talk! its ok for the site to charge what ever, but not the provider?

      You're the one engaging in double-talk. The standard is the same; in each case the provider is trying to fuck us over, and we're saying "No, that's too expensive".

      Why should I have to pay for internet services and speeds I don't need to subsidize everyone else?

      You don't. If you don't want or need fast internet, you can still get a cheap dialup connection. Even the cable companies offer different tiers of service.

      Why shouldn't services who use more resources pay more then those who don't?

      We do. It's called buying more bandwidth. Netflix pays a lot more to connect their servers to the Internet than I pay to connect my puny router.

      The difference is, Netflix pays their ISP and also has to pay Comcast extra money, because otherwise Comcast messes with their traffic.

      They are both providing a service, you either say the internet is open and free in which case net neutrality and no pay walls, or it a capitalist free system and everything goes. Not half of one and half the other. Picking winners and losers like that will make everyone losers in the end.

      You have this REALLY backwards. Net neutrality is about telling Comcast, Cox, Verizon, T-Mobile, and AT&T that they don't get to pick the winners and losers. It's the principle that, if you're carrying packets, you simply forward them to the destination -- you don't treat them differently based on whether the sender has paid their protection money.

  11. Paywalls don't help those big expensive scoops by klingens · · Score: 2

    You still neeed only a young, cheap journalist to write the recap, but now he also needs a single cheap subscription for the paywall. Can you finance those expensive investigative journalistic scoops on those few subscriptions from other journalists?

    DRM already tried this model and they lost: there only one cracker for the DRM was needed and the war was lost: the media is on bittorrent and OCHs. Good crackers are actually much much rarer than these cheap young journalists. It took almost around year for Denuvo to be cracked, BluRay longer I think, etc.
    All the scoops: less than 5 minutes for a recap to appear on all the other big sites. News works 24/7.

    And in less than 5 years it will probably be a deep learning algorithm by google or amazon that writes the recaps, like they can do sports news today already. It will be marketed as "awesome AI", which of course it isn't. So not even cheap young journalists will be needed anymore

  12. Sounds like a great way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...to keep the echo chamber alive. Nobody's gonna pay for every different take on current events, so they'll choose the source that mostly agrees with them to pay and the hardlines will grow ever harder as people have fewer and fewer opportunities to hear opposing or more moderate views that don't necessarily agree with their own.

    Tough to see this in a positive light. When you think about the paywalls while at the same time considering how many jobs are going to be circling the drain in the coming years due to automation you end up in a situation where the poor become even less informed than now due to simply not being able to afford access to information. Less informed = easier to control or manipulate.

    And we continue to flush the toilet that once was our country.

  13. CNN is building a paywall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. Who in their right mind would EVER pay for CNN? They haven't been a news site in a long time. And since November 8, 2016, they have only been a propaganda site that Goebbels would have been proud of.

    1. Re:CNN is building a paywall? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > Who in their right mind would EVER pay for CNN?

      I think one would have to be in their left mind to pay for CNN.

      Of course, FoxNews is completely fair and balanced. Unbiased. Truthful. Not propaganda at all. (snicker)

      It's really a matter of what echo chamber one wants to listen to. But CNN joined FoxNews in quality once CNN closed all their foreign bureaus and fired all their investigative reporters. It's all talking heads now. Talking heads all the way down. Like turtles.

      Then there is the Leftist Tree data structure.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  14. Double dipping and sensationalism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This might be a good thing if it eliminates both ads and click bait headlines. Doesn't seem worth paying much if one still has to put up with either one.

  15. Build that wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make the Mexicans pay for it

  16. Oh wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sites I never visit want money. This changes everything.

  17. Need a version of the Associated Press for the web by fropenn · · Score: 1

    The Associated Press approach seems to work pretty well for news. We need an expanded version of this approach for all of the various (non-news) things the internet offers. In this way you might subscribe to one site but get access to the work from multiple players. In this way small players could work together to share revenue and content with each other. This solves the issue of subscribers having to pay a small monthly amount to 20 different sources and gives these sources a non-advertising source of revenue.

  18. Cause and causality.. by CptLoRes · · Score: 1

    They positioned the well with overly aggressive advertisement, and now they wonder why they are getting thirsty?

  19. No big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump has plans to make Mexico to pay for it.

  20. Follow the lead of Webcomics: Patreon by Terwin · · Score: 1

    Webcomics have a similar problem when it comes to revenue, and many of them have turned to voluntary donations like Patreon where you can schedule a regular monthly donation to your preferred sites.

    Combined with some unobtrusive ads, it seems to work pretty well for lots of artists.
    (some even add bonus content for those that donate over a certain amount, such as a browser cookie that disables the ads on their site for the month)

    1. Re:Follow the lead of Webcomics: Patreon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only downside I can see in this is that artists on Patreon tend to feel an obligation to cater directly to their patrons' desires, and reporting the news doesn't exactly align with that principle. Patreon-supported reporters could very easily become partisan, or just devolve into worse clickbait than we're currently seeing as a means to draw in more patrons.

    2. Re:Follow the lead of Webcomics: Patreon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that "News", by definition, is partisan, right.

      What is news? If it doesn't mean anything to someone or strike even the most minor chord with them, is it News? Maybe it's news to you, maybe it's just noise to them?

  21. Brave Browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... it's a step in the right direction, anyway.

    Frankly, all I hear is the death-knell for the vast majority of hacks that pass as "journalists" nowadays. Good riddance.

  22. Nothing like being nickled and dimed by cmaurand · · Score: 1

    to death. All of these paywals want you to subscribe. They all want you to pay roughly $10.00 per month. So now you pay for 2 or 3 paywals, plus a media streamer or two and you're paying the same or more as if you never cut the cord in the first place. What's the point? I realize that news organizations need to make a living, but they need to live with slimmer subscription margins. subscriptions need to be sub $5.00/month It's not going to work.

  23. Wired.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wired was trying to block content if I was running the ad blocker (noscript in my case).
    They would throw up the "About these ad blockers..." message, pleading that they need that ad revenue.

    BS, I went there very seldomly as a result. Now they have reverted, and I don't see the ad blocker warning. I guess they lost too much traffic.

    (BTW, you could get around it by quickly selecting and copying the text, then paste it into a word processor to read after the warning popped up. I guess their paywall is a response to that method !)

    I don't mind a few well controlled ads, but letting a website run 40 scripts on my machine without my permission, some possibly bearing malware, that is gone too far.

  24. Billionaire Propagandists Rejoice! by Inviska · · Score: 1

    This is going to give a powerful voice to people who can afford to pay for it. With more newspapers and websites adding a paywall, the market will be left open for wealthy people to buy newspapers, operate them at a loss, and use them as their personal mouthpiece. Wealthy individuals already have significant influence on our society, and their influence will only grow when theirs is the only opinion we can read for free.

    This is a worrying situation.

  25. Paywalls are a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are so easy to bypass, I wonder why they even bother. Content is not exclusive. What I do when I hit a pay wall is search for the name of the article. It will inevitably show several sources with the same article. Sometimes the cached version will work, sometimes not.

  26. to make it work, go micropayment exchange by swschrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers. Joe Surfer makes a deposit. every news site he now hits, there is a deduction to the provider to pay for the posting. why in hell can't they do this, and be assured of a wider, non-PO'ed audience providing cash?

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by tattood · · Score: 3, Informative

      central micropayments site for the media providers.

      There's your problem. There won't be one central micropayment provider. You'll end up like the e-wallet (PayPal, Apple Wallet, Samsung Pay) where there are multiples and users have to put money in multiple providers. That, or the content providers will need to have accounts with all of the micropay providers.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    3. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Aaden42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Jake Surfer here... Not sure I can speak 100% for my brother Joe, but if I have to think, "Gee... I wonder if I'm just gonna get scammed out of half a penny with a bunch of clickbate if I follow this link," you can bet I'd be following a whole lot fewer links. Also, why am I giving someone an interest free loan so they can hold onto my money and deduct some of it for every piece of clickbate I get fed?

      The problem is less lack of payment mechanism and more lack of quality / necessity. There are no shortage of places that provide reliable, relevant news. The supposed "journalistic integrity" that I might be willing to pay for gets eroded a little bit more every time ${majorNewsSite}.com parrots the prevailing party line without even a scrap of effort to contradict obvious lies and policy 180's.

      There will be a lot more digital blood to bathe in before anything of value is lost.

    4. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if there is only one provider, then you run into the problems if they misbehave as you won't have any options other than just not paying.

      The issue here is that these sites haven't figured out how to convince customers that what they're selling is worth what they're charging. Making matters worse is that an increasing number of people wouldn't have the money to pay in the first place.

      back when they were delivering papers, they could make the case based purely on the fact that they printed it, plus their reputation. These days, the cost to provide it is hard to understand by the consumer and in many cases the stories are available elsewhere for less.

    5. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      ...well, until Visa, MC, Barclays, and/or Amex gets in on the act. Then it just slipstreams into the existing providers of CC/Debit payment services, and life goes on as usual.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    6. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by mspohr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Jake Surfer here... Not sure I can speak 100% for my brother Joe, but if I have to think, "Gee... I wonder if I'm just gonna get scammed out of half a penny with a bunch of clickbate if I follow this link," you can bet I'd be following a whole lot fewer links. Also, why am I giving someone an interest free loan so they can hold onto my money and deduct some of it for every piece of clickbate I get fed?

      The problem is less lack of payment mechanism and more lack of quality / necessity. There are no shortage of places that provide reliable, relevant news. The supposed "journalistic integrity" that I might be willing to pay for gets eroded a little bit more every time ${majorNewsSite}.com parrots the prevailing party line without even a scrap of effort to contradict obvious lies and policy 180's.

      There will be a lot more digital blood to bathe in before anything of value is lost.

      I agree that clickbait will still be a problem. That's why it's good to support ${majorNewsSite}.
      (BTW, the only ${majorNewsSite} that parrots the prevailing party line that I know of is Fox news. The others have all been branded with Trump's "fake news" label which is a sure sign that they must have spoken some truth to power.)

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    7. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No thanks. I'd rather just stop reading what little 'news' I get altogether.

    8. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, it's only Fox that does it... The others are bastions of objectivity. Seriously?

    9. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Some say that ignorance is bliss...

      I say ignorance is just ignorance.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    10. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You suffer from confirmation bias in your bubble. Or did you believe CNN when they said it was illegal to look Clinton emails?

    11. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      the only ${majorNewsSite} that parrots the prevailing party line that I know of is Fox news.

      Whatever you thought about Fox during the Obama years, in 2017 it's the only major network that can make any remotely credible claim at being unbiased. A Harvard study of his first 100 days show most news networks were 80%+ negative in their coverage of Trump (compared with about 40% for Obama) with CNN and NBC well over 90% negative (and the ARD in Germany at 98% negative). Meanwhile Fox is almost dead-on 50/50.

      https://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-donald-trumps-first-100-days/

      There was a more recent study that showed not much has changed since, but I can't find it again now...

    12. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember a few years ago when people could make it though a day without spending hours on facebook venting their outrage over NYT's latest bombshell report that Trump's secretary's dog's vet's sister dated a Russian in 1983?

      In a world where actual information is deliberately obscured under mountains of bullshit and propaganda and irrelevant nonsense all designed to emotionally upset you and keep your attention and clicks coming, there's something to be said for proud "ignorance".

    13. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. You sir are simply a mindless, emotocentric hyena-faced cunt-sucking neo-Trotsky tool of globalist pseudo-Rawlsian Juudom. Is there any detail you need clarified ?

    14. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think CNN or MSNBC or whatever are any better a news source than Fox News is I have a bridge to sell you.

      I've generally been able to find quality reporting reliably from The Economist, BBC, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and the Los Angeles Times. None of them are perfect (I still have to dodge a lot of op-ed articles). Fact-only reporting is so rare on CNN/MSNBC/Fox/etc. that it's simply not worth my time to find the one good article they accidentally publish per month.

    15. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by jarlsberg71 · · Score: 1

      I'm curious.. I Am no fox fan, and while the CNN/MSNBC haven't lost credibility to me. I know the audience they're trying to enrage, and I can't take that non-stop.

      Anyone else enjoy Vice News?

      --
      E8B8B
    16. Re: to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look up the leaked Vice News "social justice millennial" directive.

      They literally told employees to ignore facts and lie in order to appease and attract left-leaning millennials.

      That you find them appealing is... Curious. When were you born, child?

    17. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a bad assumption to make, the whole "fake news" bullshit is designed to stir uncertainty and, by extension, misplaced trust. The best course of action is to assume they are all lying or talking from a biased perspective because invariably it's one or the other.

    18. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Agripa · · Score: 2

      I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers. Joe Surfer makes a deposit. every news site he now hits, there is a deduction to the provider to pay for the posting. why in hell can't they do this, and be assured of a wider, non-PO'ed audience providing cash?

      And then it becomes third party data subject to mass surveillance for use against you in court with the added bonus of demonstrating a monetary transaction across state lines. It is not like this is not already the case but why make it easier? No thanks.

      Let me know when I can pay in untraceable cash.

    19. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything you read WILL cost money, count on it. Don't like it? Go fuck a tree. Seriously, she's waiting and she's looking at you kinda funny

    20. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      And you can flog it for 50 more hopefully. Not every page I load is worth me paying for it.

      The NYT site allows you to view 10 free articles a month. And that system works fine when you always know that the link you click on is going to take you to their site. But sometimes the article doesn't say where the link goes to but just has a heading and you forget to look or, worse, the link uses a URL shortener so that you can't tell where you end up.

      In that case you just lose a free view but imagine if hitting those pages started to cost you money. And how do you know how much a page is going to cost before you go there? A free and open web is the only way. You may be willing to pay a bit every month to view the pages you want but want about the poor of the world? Do you think micropayment will really stay with sites like news sites?

      I like how the Guardian newspaper has handled their site. Everything is available. There is a row of paid articles that are well marked as such near the bottom of a few pages but no other ads. At the bottom of articles they ask you to contribute. If you don't nothing happens. There's no limit to the number of articles you can see.

    21. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The others screw up unfortunately often, but they seem to do a better job of hunting down the facts and correcting themselves when they're wrong.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  27. Nope, just a simple one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Easy and simple are not the same thing. Easy was letting 3rd party companies manage advertisement sales (and of course get a cut) for the publisher.

    Simple is going back to direct-sales marketing management. Let bloggers and YouTube use 3rd parties, NYT, WaPo, and more should be selling their valuable screen real-estate directly and reaping all the money from that.

    I mean... damn people. Its not complex, just more work. Since the YouTube Adpocalypse many YouTubers have started doing sponsored content (many more than were before all the kerfluffle). Even controversial left- and right-wing vloggers are managing to put together advertising deals to support themselves. And most of them are idiots!

    I've been on about this for years now, because this lack of managing one's own content is terrible for everyone, even investors. 3rd party ad networks are garbage. Advertisers have little control over where their ads are displayed (because its not about the content of the pages, its about the person looking at the page). Content creators have little control over what is advertised on their pages for the exact same reason! And this is the world its leading to, with more and more people choosing to block ads, with more and more "controversies" over ads being shown next to controversial content.

    Paywalls are just a great way to stop growing your audience. Sure, you can cannibalize your existing audience and survive on them for a while, but they are nothing more than life-support for a failing business. Go back to the old ways and find better ways to modernize them. Put people back into the system for a while, and make sure they stay there, because AI is simply not going to catch up anytime soon, and the people running the ad networks care as much about content creators and advertisers as the guy in India cares about any of the 7 corporations in the US he's answering the phone for. Ad networks need to show more, and get more clicks, and to do that, they cheat. Just like that call center in India wants you off the phone as fast as possible to take the next call because they get paid by call volume and no other metric.

  28. how do you stop other sites from echoing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    most of the time any paywall article is echoed by other sites, which quote the substance of the article - usually the article has a sentence or two of actual new facts, and a lot of fluff padding (quotes from random experts, rehashing the previous news, etc) - as soon as actual news hits the WSJ, for example, every site on the Internet echoes the substance and strips out the fluff - so why pay?

  29. Disable javascript.... by Berkyjay · · Score: 1

    Problem solved.

    1. Re:Disable javascript.... by tepples · · Score: 1

      It's possible to render an abstract and credit card form with only HTML, CSS, and cookies.

  30. Would micropayments help? by jhecht · · Score: 1

    A micropayment system that could pay a few pennies per story might help. It's worth 1-5 cents to take a look at a hot news story, and maybe 10-20 cents for a longer magazine read. Generate enough traffic and it will pay the bills for the real news organizations. What it takes is building a micropayment system without somebody skimming more than their share off the top of each transaction. I don't mind paying for content I read, but I like to read varied content from different sources, so that way I could sample broadly, then subscribe to the handful I read the most. It's much better than wading through crapvertising that sometimes is carrying malware.

  31. Nothing will change. by Alypius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People will continue to read a headline for free, make assumptions based on their beliefs, and convince themselves they know what the article talked about.

    1. Re:Nothing will change. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most headlines are not worth reading because they are carefully constructed to generate click-throughs. Very few news sites have stories worth reading beyond the headline because they don't add any useful information beyond the fact presented in the headline.

      Supply of journalists far exceeds demand. It's made worse by "journalists" writing useless click-bait fluff pieces.

  32. Right, except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...they will have to start adding value to their content, to stop publishing all the crap and cheap stuff that they put online now.

  33. There's no wall by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "Right now, the preferred method is the paywall. The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one."

    No, they haven't. They have a pay-cookie, delete it and there's no 'wall'.
    Or just install one of the extensions that resets them immediately

  34. Don't give a damn any more.... by no-body · · Score: 1

    "They" want money for that:

    https://motherboard.vice.com/e...
    and:
    This website (www-blahblah) attempted to extract HTML5 canvas image data, which may be used to uniquely identify your computer."

    - not from me.... severely scale down on that shit....

    Ah - then Slashdot forces one to view on brain-damanged m.slashdot.org, no matter how huge your iPad is, not using that anymore either.

    What was that:
    https://hackernoon.com/more-th...

    anyone can claim that comments are fake - who controls that statement and the disputes of it?

  35. I'm prepared... by c · · Score: 1

    Got my back button primed and everything.

    I appreciate that people have gotta make money, but I'm not paying for a news subscription. Someone needs to figure out a sane microtransaction platform sooner than later.

    --
    Log in or piss off.
    1. Re:I'm prepared... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you prefer "death by a thousand cuts" to "all at once"? Interesting....

      With these people, "sane micro transaction platform" would be defined as "$0.02 per html character".

  36. Very easy solution: Work for Hire. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only instead of said work going to a Publisher/Financing corporation who has ownership of it for 50+ years, you instead perform work for hire based off donations and release it as "CC by SA" or "CC by NC" at your donator's behest.

    As a diametrically opposing example to this: See Star Citizen. 169 million dollars and they are still charging extra for ships, cosmetics, and expecting to sell copies of the game outside of the crowdfunding campaign as well.

    How sick has our society become that imaginary goods now hold more monetary value and for a longer period than physical goods involving physical human labor over an extended period of time?

  37. The ROI sucks so good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's news that I actually care about (aka stated facts) then there are editorials which try to arrange the facts into narratives because apparently I'm too dumb to make up my own mind.

    News media is a giant bloated mess and I have zero sympathy if 99% of it dies behind a paywall. Goodbye clickbait, goodbye 24/7 coverage of nothing, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

  38. Cancelled my Wired print subscription around 2014 by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    Having subscribed since the second issue in 1993 or 1994, starting with the third issue. they finally priced me out of paper, despite design and my personal preference for the tactile experience kept me until my max price was finally exceeded.

    Now I read the occasional article, but I found I wasn't that interested after all. A paywall will just make that a less frequent occurrence.

    And nothing of value will be lost for me.

    Of the other paywalled publications, most object to my adblocker so vehemently I avoid the 'free' stuff the would have permitted me to read. and nothing of value is lost there either.

    I wish them luck. They will need it.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  39. Returning to the Old Paradigm by Koreantoast · · Score: 1

    Perhaps then we're returning to the pre-Internet paradigm where you probably get a single newspaper and a small handful of magazines. Except at least in the Internet era, we're no longer locked into the one local paper in our small town.

    1. Re: Returning to the Old Paradigm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get The Economist in my mailbox every week. It was possible twenty years ago to get The Economist in my mailbox. I live in a small midwestern US town.

  40. If this lets me use an ad-blocker... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    If this lets me use an ad-blocker, then I welcome it. Truth be told, I already pay for a half-dozen or so sites I value anyway -- so for me, little would change.

  41. Freeloaders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who blocks ads and refuses a paywall should be willing to do their own job for free.

  42. Didn't Pay for Newspaper, Don't pay for news sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't expect I will pay to get thru any digital walls for news either.

    Hmmm, maybe the outrageous amount of content that is created today is, well, unnecessary. People "consume" it because it is easy to access and it is free.

    I'm more than willing to bet the farm on the fact that at least half, if not 75%, of their traffic will dry up when they go paywall. Us people are amazing, adaptable beings. We tend to roam until we get comfortable. Once you make us uncomfortable we begin to roam and wander again until once again we are comfortable.

  43. Adult Check: grown-ups can pay for nice things by tepples · · Score: 2

    I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers.

    That existed 20 years ago, and it was called Adult Check. Subscribers gained access to all participating sites, and sites were paid per page view. I guess if you ignore the erotica on the network, you could explain the name as "Because grown-ups can pay for nice things."

    The problem comes when a single company operates both an ad network and a micropayment network. Such an operator has an incentive to track viewers' browsing habits across the Internet in order to build a dossier on their interests. For example, Google operates AdSense/AdWords on the one hand and Contributor on the other.

    A micropayment provider will appear more trustworthy to viewers if it doesn't have ads as a side business.

    1. Re:Adult Check: grown-ups can pay for nice things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be interesting. They could also be privacy preserving by using a locally-sensitive hash, such as ssDeep, for the URLs. This would allow them to track what websites people went to without actually knowing themselves. And, if the subscribed website cares, they could run brute the aggregated hashes to find out how many people went where.

  44. Get what you, or someone else pays for by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

    The fact that news costs money to produce and deliver has never stopped being an issue, there was just a brief period of easy capital where players tried to stake out their turf in the digital world. What people don't seem to realize is that if you are getting your news for free it means someone else has paid for it. It's naive to believe the only advertising they see is obvious and commercial, when the media has always been seen as a way to push viewpoints. Your ad blocker doesn't work when the ad is the content.

  45. It's a conspiracy! by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

    Very soon the only free-to-read news media will be far left/right populist, conspiracy theory and other nutwing media with agendas.

    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  46. Don't make 40MB web pages by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    There's something to be said here about efficiency. If bandwidth is a commodity then conserve it, write pages smartly. Don't have auto playing videos, huge parallax backgrounds, giant click through splash pages because you arrogantly believe everyone should see your quote of the day... Instead have some consideration for each element you send to the user. Make better use of vector based graphics. Use bitmaps sparingly.

  47. Not going to work. by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

    How will all of the big blue media companies control the (growing) population of have-nots who can't afford the nickel? They are still going to vote....

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  48. BBC by mspohr · · Score: 1

    If we has a sane public policy rather than rampant neoliberalism, we could do as the UK does and fund a BBC type news organization out of a tax.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  49. Multiple micropay providers by tepples · · Score: 1

    or the content providers will need to have accounts with all of the micropay providers.

    What practical problem do you see with expecting each publisher to have accounts with all of the micropay providers?

    1. Re:Multiple micropay providers by tattood · · Score: 1

      What practical problem do you see with expecting each publisher to have accounts with all of the micropay providers?

      There is some amount of coding (and maintenance) work that needs to be done to add each provider to their website. Also, each provider may have different fees or rules that a website may not agree to.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    2. Re: Multiple micropay providers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are lazy and don't want to set up new accounts.
      The real solution is cryptocoins. No, not bitcoin. VisaCoin, AmexCoin, NYTCoin. Etc. Each major organization and each of geekier people will have its own unique currency and viewers can use their CC or a miner or a yet to be standardized currency exchange API to let them pick who gets access to what.

      Bitcoin can't work bc i am not installing a plugin to my browser that potentially risks all my cash, just like with a real bank. Not happening.

      But if NYT has its own and there is a broad set of currency exchange places for a truly competitive service I can use my currency to pay them. I set my own exchange rate, but as an AC i am the only one willing to buy my coins. So i have to buy my coins just as if they were a gift card, self financing my own reserve.

      The interconnected system then sees my five thousand minted coins are backed by and thus worth $50, $0.01/ea, or a penny. My browser can use any plugin to configure what currency exchange market(s) to use and, informed by yet to be standardized website guidance, which exchanges they use. Boom, micropayments solved.

      That's the future of crypto coins. Not Bitcoin, infinite bitcoins.

  50. Goodbye good journalism hello fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see an unintended consequence: the proliferation of free, as in beer, fake news. That or a government sponsored alternative, RT and China Daily News, anyone? Is a free, but independent and fairly good quality news source possible? I'd settle for something as good or as bad as Wikipedia, with its known liberal bias. With even the establishment media making copious use of them, social media already provides us with enough raw materials for true citizen journalism. The only problem is with the writers and the editors.

  51. Combination of subscription and ad revenue by tepples · · Score: 2

    the problem would seem that the advertisers are not willing to pay enough to support the number of pages that visitors look at

    Correct. This is the model of print newspapers, print magazines, and pay television. Neither subscription revenue alone nor advertising revenue alone is enough to fully fund the production of works of authorship without, say, making every pay TV channel as expensive as HBO. Only the sum of the two is sufficient.

    Is the subscription price too high?

    Yes in many cases. $25,000 per year for one article that happens to be exclusive to the Bloomberg subscription is far too high for the vast majority of individual readers. Even a more modest $4 per month is cost-prohibitive for someone who reads only one article per month from a given site. Anything lower than $4, however, and the commission that a merchant pays to a payment processor for each transaction begins to dominate.

    Static inline images from the originating website.

    Does this mean that you propose to eliminate the intermediary ad network or ad exchange? If so, how would you expect a smaller site to afford to hire ad sales personnel in order to find advertisers and sell ad space directly to them?

    Or you could charge the advertiser more for the ad impression.

    Publishers already charge the advertisers more for what the Internet advertising industry calls "rich" ads. But publishers have come to rely on the increased revenue for rich ads as the new normal.

    1. Re:Combination of subscription and ad revenue by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      This is the model of print newspapers, print magazines, and pay television. Neither subscription revenue alone nor advertising revenue alone is enough

      Not only the combination as the summation of the revenues, but the "synergy" too. The price of newspaper stops people from using it to make toilet paper, fireplace fuel, packing material etc. I have used newspapers to wipe wounds while camping - once you tightly wrinkle the newspaper by compressing in a ball and straighten it again multiple times, it works reasonably well.

      Online doesn't have newsprint expenses, and their "consumers" also lack the motivation to make secondary usage of their services.

      Does this mean that you propose to eliminate the intermediary ad network or ad exchange? If so, how would you expect a smaller site to afford to hire ad sales personnel in order to find advertisers and sell ad space directly to them?

      This problem is identical to the one the paper newspapers of the previous century, right ?

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  52. It just downed on me by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    A lot of madness in the current public discussion comes from people reading too much biased news. Most of it is on the left but the right has a few juicy ones to keep the balance. What will happen if all of those are behind a paywall so there is not much inflammatory I mean investigative journalism to share and read for free?

    Maybe it will be peace across the land again.

    1. Re:It just downed on me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of madness in the current public discussion comes from people reading too much biased news. Most of it is on the left but the right has a few juicy ones to keep the balance.

      Good thing you said reading, because talk radio and Fox are biased to the point of not even being news.

    2. Re:It just downed on me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What planet do you live on? The entire reason there is right biased news at all is because certain people were not happy with reality, so they have invested decades and more money than anyone will ever see to "change the narrative" and convince people like you that evolution isn't scientific, or that measurable increases in x that in every other case means an increase in y don't happen in this one simple instance.

      This is so well documented there are several documentaries about it over the decades. Former employees have turned up dead when they threatened to release evidence of what happened while they were at Fox News. The fact that you say it's "mostly on the left" just proves how effective their marketing campaign is, and how fucked this entire world is when easily observable evidence is to be discarded for emotive rants that make you feel self righteous.

  53. Do libraries subscribe to popular sites? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Has it become common for public libraries in the United States, in both large and small cities and in states with both conservative- and liberal-leaning legislatures, to carry subscriptions to popular paywalled websites? Could I, say, visit a library branch, put in my library card number, and read WSJ.com articles without charge?

    1. Re:Do libraries subscribe to popular sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Academic librarian, reporting for duty.

      Subscribing to individual publications can be just as expensive, or even more expensive, for libraries. Sometimes, we can buy bundles of newspaper content through aggregators, but the big players (WSJ, NYT, WaPo, etc.) don't participate. Presumably, these large publications feel like they can get better income streams through individual subscriptions.

      For libraries with large enough budgets, they could subscribe to individual publications and make them available, *if* the publication has a license that permits them to do so.

  54. Not much journalism today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There isn't much journalism today. Most of the media are just cheer leaders for the left.

  55. Sell Bundled like Texture does for Magazines by atrimtab · · Score: 2

    The solution is bundle publications for a fixed price per month. Texture sells access to about 200 magazines for $10/month on phones and tablets, but not on the web.

    See:

    https://www.texture.com/

    Of course, this works much like the much derided Cable TV bundle. Don't think of it as a TV bundle. Think of it as Netflix for newspapers. The monthly costs are spread across enough content that purchasers do not feel ripped off even if they only read a subset of the offerings.

    Here is the list of magazines Texture offers:

    https://www.texture.com/all-ti...

    Texture magazines are somewhat searchable. There are highlights and even some daily news.

    What we don't know with Texture is how all the various publishers are being compensated from the monthly subscriptions fees readers are providing.

    I won't pay $2 for a magazine on Google, but I will pay $10/month for access to over 200 magazines. It keeps the rest of family happy too.

    --
    Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
  56. Addendum: They're trying to sell fear... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: What'll happen is like the media sources mentioned doing paywalls? They'll lose there too & citizen journalism rises in its place (as it ought to be - THE TRUE "VOX POPULI")!

    I mean, for Pete's sake - LOOK WHO IS PUTTING THIS ARTICLE OUT - "The Atlantic" = GLOBALIST bullshit cheering section echo chamber for them & their lies packed bullshit!

    THEN you also have GEORGE SOROS' sponsored "salon" &/or "snopes" alongside them - all LOSING (& I LOVE IT).

    APK

    P.S.=> This IS going to be the INEVITABLE outcome & the FALL of the advertising empires out there creating nothing but tracking, infecting, slowing & ANNOYING you as the user... apk

    1. Re:Addendum: They're trying to sell fear... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. The internet did just fine before it was monetized and it will do so again. Do the morons at the Atlantic realize that? It must either be some millenial who wrote that crap who wasn't there before that time or preying on the ignorance of those who were not there and don't know that it's truth the internet was around long before it was advertising monetized. Only serious sites based on passion of the people hosting them will be around again. That is how it ought to be. The rest are greedy trying to make money and nothing else. They will be gone soon and Thank God for that.

  57. I treat Paywalls by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    the same way I treat the full screen notices that demand I disable my ad-blocker.

    I simply shut down the tab and move on.

    If the story or information is worthy enough, it will be found on someone elses site.

  58. Google should stop indexing paywalled sites! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Want a paywall? Sure, you can do that. But you'll have to give up traffic from search engines and find potential subscribers on your own. Google shouldn't be complicit in your drug dealer "the first hit is free" sales strategy.

    1. Re:Google should stop indexing paywalled sites! by el_smurfo · · Score: 1

      Some like LA Times give you a few free per month. After that, I don't bother clicking. There's very little content that won't be posted elsewhere for less. If I were to start such a subscription, it would probably be to a truly unbiased media source like the Intercept.

  59. Advertising IS the problem by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    Once upon a time I had multiple magazine subscriptions. Some cost upwards of $15 / month each.

    As time went by, I noticed there were more ads in my magazine than there was actual content.

    At which point I cancelled my subscriptions. Can't see any reason to pay a monthly fee for what amounted to nothing but advertising. :|

  60. Would I be paying to get ads? by kwerle · · Score: 1

    If I pay for one of these sites (WSJ, LAT, etc), will I be paying for the privilege of seeing ads, too?

    1. Re:Would I be paying to get ads? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I just signed up for wapo via amazon. I don't mind paying the little they are asking if they will do a reasonable job of the journalism and it is refreshed daily. There are ads (there were in the paper version too). I'll be more interested to see how much new content there is each day, after all the old paper was completely new each day. I suspect some of the content will stick around online longer.

      --
      Nullius in verba
  61. Build a wall? by el_smurfo · · Score: 1

    Does it seem odd that the same media companies that lambaste Trump's wall rhetoric now want to erect walls of their own to keep folks from coming onto their digital properties and taking content that they don't legally have rights to.

  62. subscriptions and ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising, so they aren't really passing the straight costs onto their users anyway. That's why many sites still have advertising even for their paying subscribers, which is a deal breaker for me.

    The print version of newspapers have ads as well. Just because you paid $0.50 (or whatever) for the NYT on paper didn't mean you got a bunch of dead trees without ads: you paid for the paper and got the ads. This is true of just about all newsprint that I've ever come across.

    The only two exceptions that come to mind was/is Consumer Reports and Cook's Illustrated, both of which were completely subscribed-supported and without ads.

  63. Government-funded sources by dskoll · · Score: 1

    BBC, CBC, NPR, etc. might end up being the only viable investigative news organizations.

    You may now begin the flames.

  64. by by Internet by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Between all the trackers and pay walls the Internet is going down the shitter.

  65. Not all articles are on those 4 sites by tepples · · Score: 1

    I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny.

    So what do you do when someone shares with you a link to an article in a publication other than the four you mentioned, such as The Wall Street Journal?

    1. Re: Not all articles are on those 4 sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ignore links people send me. If they can't be bothered to copy paste the relevant bit they think i need to see, they are saying their time is worth more than mine while asking me to lend my time.

      If they have a blurb that seems worth it, I'll google it and pick from sources i deem reliable. CrazedOldConspiracyTheorist.com or whatever links get ignored.

    2. Re:Not all articles are on those 4 sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I click. I hit the paywall. And then I move on. Literally nothing to see there...

    3. Re: Not all articles are on those 4 sites by tepples · · Score: 1

      I ignore links people send me.

      Yet you're on Slashdot, a site that's all about links the editors send you. Numerous stories on Slashdot have been from WSJ, and quite a few times, the "alternate source" was also paywalled.

  66. They add up quickly by tepples · · Score: 1

    What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

    It's simple: To get any sort of breadth of subject matter or perspective, you'd end up having...

    To view the rest of this comment, log in or subscribe to comments by tepples

    1. Re:They add up quickly by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      I'll give you a +1 Funny, but only if you split it proportionally between all the contributors to comments by tepples

  67. I block trackers, not ads. by tepples · · Score: 1

    Except I don't block ads per se. I use Firefox tracking protection to block things that track my viewing habits from one website to another. When a site serves ads that don't track me, as on Daring Fireball, I see them. But for over a year, Wired confused tracking protection with an ad blocker instead of serving ads that don't track me. TV Tropes still does.

  68. Reddit by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Reddcoin

    That is all.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  69. MVPS Hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't waste bandwidth on untrusted domains.
    Fix your hosts file here.

    - MVPS Hosts Guy

  70. Coulda fooled me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...paywall. The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one. The Financial Times has one. The Wall Street Journal has one. The New Yorker has one.

    I read WashPo daily. I have no trouble seeing articles at NYT if I allow cookies. No blocks at NewYorker. Never seen the Financial Times. And I generally don't enable script. They talk about paywalls but it just doesn't work. The online versions are not serious and complete enough. And they want to track readers, even if you pay. I'm not going to put up with that kind of privacy intrusion. I'll go somewhere else. If all else fails, I'll stick with the day-old news in the NYT print edition.

    Forbes set up a very convoluted system to require script. Let them. I'll never see their site again.

  71. Already in my rejest list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "New York Times,The Washington Post, Financial Times has one. The Wall Street Journal has one. The New Yorker has one, CNN is building a paywall, too." CNN = Clinton New Network. ABC is not better.
    Most of these are in my list of sites not to open. I can not trust me to not be influenced by fake news, propaganda and Demonrat Party misinformations but I can and do use uBlock Origin to prevent access to most of the above webs.
    If it conflicts with the Holy Bible or the US Constitution, I do not need to see it.
    Pelosi can go to hell but I have no need to know when how or why. McCain too.

  72. Addons=inferior/inefficient/faulty vs. hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts protect when addons can't (or as well):

    Bad sites (past ads)
    Botnet C&Cs
    DNS down/poisoned
    Trackers (dns logs/ads/transparent ISP proxy)
    Dns blocks
    Spam/phish payload
    Slowdown 2 ways: adblocks & hardcodes
    Hosts = Ez edit.

    AB+ 151mb https://www.google.com/search?q=Adblock+memory+consumption&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1/

    UBlock 64MB https://www.google.com/search?q=UBlock+memory+consumption&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1/

    Hosts~6mb

    Addons = ClarityRay defeatable & crippled http://www.businessinsider.com/google-microsoft-amazon-taboola-pay-adblock-plus-to-stop-blocking-their-ads-2015-2/

    NoScript tag parses. Hosts block script prior to it!

    No 1 addon does as much.

    Stacked addons slowup.

    ADDONS = EXPLOITABLE https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11166303&cid=55266729/

    APK

    P.S.=> APK Hosts File Engine 10++ 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

  73. Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have millennials so latched onto the word 'fungible'? It's a dead giveaway to your age. It doesn'tmake you sound smart. It makes you sound like any other high schooler that ever took an SAT. I will now stomp off truculently.

  74. Javascript already keeps me away by JThundley · · Score: 1

    I bail on websites that don't work after allowing 2-3 javascript domains. Do they really think erecting another barrier is going to keep me on their site and make get out my credit card? What a joke!

  75. HEYOOOOOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i think i'll prepare for a whole new way to steal media content instead

  76. Re:Need a version of the Associated Press for the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AP was (and is) into wholesale news gathering, not retail. They don't publish stuff on their own (well, not very much); they provide it (for a price) to other news organizations that retail it to the public. That's not to say that AP isn't still around (https://www.ap.org), but that as an individual news consumer you are not their market. Very few retail news organizations have their own reporters any more, and if they do they concentrate mostly on local stuff like high school sports.

    The old Big 3 news bureaus seen commonly in the US were AP, UPI, and Reuters. UPI is gone. All 3 are still around, and Reuters is very much into retail news these days (https://www.reuters.com). Never hear much about UPI any more for some reason (https://www.upi.com), perhaps because they seem to be a major source of "weird news" (see their website)?

  77. Re:Cancelled my Wired print subscription around 20 by antdude · · Score: 1

    I only get magazines for free when I find free offers.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  78. Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    http://www.shirky.com/writings...
    "This strategy [of micropayments] doesn't work, because the act of buying anything, even if the price is very small, creates what Nick Szabo calls mental transaction costs, the energy required to decide whether something is worth buying or not, regardless of price. ... Like the salami slicing exploit in computer crime, micropayment believers imagine that such tiny amounts of money can be extracted from the user that they will not notice, while the overall volume will cause these payments to add up to something significant for the recipient. But of course the users do notice, because they are being asked to buy something. Mental transaction costs create a minimum level of inconvenience that cannot be removed simply by lowering the dollar cost of goods. Worse, beneath a certain threshold, mental transaction costs actually rise, a phenomenon is especially significant for information goods. It's easy to think a newspaper is worth a dollar, but is each article worth half a penny? Is each word worth a thousandth of a penny? A newspaper, exposed to the logic of micropayments, becomes impossible to value. ..."

    My alternative solution is a *mix* of four types of economic activities:
    * people producing their own personal content through better personal tools (subsistence production)
    * a basic income (to soften the rough edges and rich-get-richer exchange economy)
    * people giving away high-quality content (gift economy)
    * more government funding of free information providers (an improved democratically-planned command economy)

    The promotion of artificial scarcity (e.g. paywalls for digital content) as a way to fund content is one of the biggest problems we are facing as we transition to post-scarcity. There are several reason artificial scarcity is a problem -- but one of the biggest is that ensuring artificial scarcity in an age of technological abundance ultimately requires the equivalent of a police state monitoring everything everyone does 24X7.

    See also Alfie Kohn: http://www.alfiekohn.org/artic... and Dan Pink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      biggest problems we are facing as we transition to post-scarcity.

      Post-scarcity? We're living it right now? You are really an optimist, sir, or maybe a little too stupid.

    2. Re:Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

      What do we have a material shortage of?

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    3. Re:Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have a pony, do I?

  79. Fungus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw the word 'fungus' in TFA summary, somewhere, hmmm.

  80. enjoy being tracked by bingoUV · · Score: 1

    You do understand by "logging in", you are being tracked even better than websites track you for advertising to you , right ?

    --
    Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    1. Re:enjoy being tracked by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      There may or may not be tracking. I'll probably add fuel to your fire, but I read all of these on a Kindle device where the paper downloads with no advertisements. Now Amazon may be tracking which articles I spend the most time on, but I'm not looking at ads. I see a lot of complaints in this thread about the various websites. And there is certain some veracity to the claims. If you really object to the web sites, you could order the print edition or the kindle edition. In the end, my original assertion stands. You have to pay for quality journalism.

  81. Marginalizing themselves even faster by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    Paywalls are a short-sighted solution. Soon enough, even the Times will lose its remaining influence once it's only preaching to the converted.

  82. This is Increasing Political Polarisation by Maxymoos · · Score: 1

    I'm concerned that in the UK this is making left/right polarisation worse - In the political centre we have the BBC and on the left we have the Independent and Guardian, all free. All the serious right of centre/conservative news sources are paywalled (Times, Telegraph, Spectator). So the free news sources are left biased, or hard right.

  83. Print publishers didn't compete with trackers by tepples · · Score: 1

    Online doesn't have newsprint expenses

    Hosting facilities aren't without cost. Amazon charges real money for EC2, S3, and CloudFront.

    This problem [of selling ad space] is identical to the one the paper newspapers of the previous century, right ?

    For one thing, how did "the paper newspapers of the previous century" solve it? And to what extent would those solutions continue to apply? Individual publishers back then didn't have to compete with interest-based ad networks for advertisers' money.

    1. Re:Print publishers didn't compete with trackers by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Hosting facilities aren't without cost. Amazon charges real money for EC2, S3, and CloudFront.

      I didn't say hosting facilities are without cost. I just said users don't get fuel / packing material / poor man's toilet paper by misusing these services. Any benefit they derive from DOSing the service provider is not real.

      Free internet news service , only subsidized by advertisements is infinitely more viable than free newspapers only subsidized by advertisements in the last century due to these extra motivations to abuse the service.

      For one thing, how did "the paper newspapers of the previous century" solve it? And to what extent would those solutions continue to apply? Individual publishers back then didn't have to compete with interest-based ad networks for advertisers' money.

      This is their problem - the same problem existed in those days and they needed to deal with an order of magnitude lower economic activity than today, so your naming an extra competitor doesn't really mean anything. I never said I had the answers, this is why I am not in an online newspaper business.

      You are naming a problem that always existed and still exists today - somehow gels with the bad reputation millenials get about facing any problem and giving up immediately.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  84. Wimax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First time post ever, I am the owner of a small ISP and was wondering what is to stop myself or people like me from just throwing up a wimax tower and using my own trunk to the internet to break up the monopoly?

  85. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & NEW APK Hosts File Engine 10++ 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

    Ads/script/malware rob speed/security/privacy/bandwidth.

    Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

    Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

    Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirect (99++% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + DNS tracking & lighten DNS load & resolve faster via local RAM!

    * Via what u NATIVELY have in a FASTER kernelmode IP stack (does more w/ less).

    APK

    P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/ (self checking vs. infection of it built-in)

  86. Addendum: They're trying to sell fear... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: The internet did just fine before it was monetized and it will do so again.

    I mean, for Pete's sake - LOOK WHO IS PUTTING THIS ARTICLE OUT - "The Atlantic" = GLOBALIST bullshit cheering section echo chamber for them & their lies packed bullshit!

    THEN you also have GEORGE SOROS' sponsored "salon" &/or "snopes" alongside them - all LOSING (& I LOVE IT).

    Do the morons at the Atlantic realize that?

    It must either be some millenial who wrote that crap who wasn't there before that time or preying on the ignorance of those who were not there and don't know that it's truth the internet was around long before it was advertising monetized.

    Only serious sites based on passion of the people hosting them will be around again.

    That is how it ought to be & USED to be.

    The rest are greedy trying to make money and nothing else. They will be gone soon and Thank God for that.

    What'll happen is like the media sources mentioned doing paywalls? They'll lose there too & citizen journalism rises in its place (as it ought to be - THE TRUE "VOX POPULI")!

    APK

    P.S.=> This IS going to be the INEVITABLE outcome & the FALL of the advertising empires out there creating nothing but tracking, infecting, slowing & ANNOYING you as the user - People WONT DO paywalls & will find a competitor NOT using one & go there instead... apk

  87. Found? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    apk appears to be logged in above (or at least one of its personalities - i get that most of its personalities prefer to post as apk signed AC)

  88. LOL, say "Goodbye" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most sites that use paywalls suck, and/or have little of value worth paying for. Not all, but most.

  89. Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HA!

    When the value of the readers eyes and attention is greater than the cost of admission, what do these fools think the outcome will be?

    Do they seriously expect the vast majority of content consumers to throw up their hands and wallets, pony up and say "welp, the free ride was fun while it lasted!"?Or is it more reasonable to expect the viewers to shift their attention to the free content consumption they've all become accustomed to? I suspect the latter.

    For every "Main stream" media source that decides this is how to keep the money flowing, there are hundreds of other information sources hungry for audience market share giving it away for "free". With the state of MSM today, can they really afford to chance pissing off the remaining people who still trust them for their information feed? What's more important to them, revenue? Or the power of public opinion manipulation that comes with the prestige of being a trusted news source? Once again, I'm forced to suspect the latter. We'll see how far these paywall tactics go.

    Hell, Slashdot articles frequently alert readers to paywalled articles and provide alternate sources to subvert them!

  90. How about the radio? by Still+Having+Fun · · Score: 1

    I listen to the news once or twice a day and sometimes from stations with different political orientations. I actually like my local NPR station best and make a small annual donation to them.