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Prepare for the New Paywall Era (theatlantic.com)

Alexis C. Madrigal, writing for The Atlantic: If the recent numbers are any indication, there is a bloodbath in digital media this year. Publishers big and small are coming up short on advertising revenue, even if they are long on traffic. [...] In a print newspaper or a broadcast television station, the content and the distribution of that content are integrated. The big tech platforms split this marriage, doing the distribution for most digital content through Google searches and the Facebook News Feed. And they've taken most of the money: They've "captured the value" of the content at the distribution level. Media companies have no real alternative, nor do they have competitive advertising products to the targeting and scale that Facebook and Google can offer. Facebook and Google need content, but it's all fungible. The recap of a huge investigative blockbuster is just as valuable to Google News as an investigative blockbuster itself. The former might have taken months and costs tens of thousands of dollars, the latter a few hours and the cost of a young journalist's time. That's led many people to the conclusion that supporting rigorous journalism requires some sort of direct financial relationship between publications and readers. Right now, the preferred method is the paywall. The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one. The Financial Times has one. The Wall Street Journal has one. The New Yorker has one. Wired just announced they'd be building one. (Editor's note: CNN is building a paywall, too.) Many of these efforts have been successful. Publications have figured out how to create the right kinds of porosity for their sites, allowing enough people in to drive scale, but extracting more revenue per reader than advertising could provide.

157 of 263 comments (clear)

  1. It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And it won't work this time. You're just looking at a ton of closures and maybe some consolidation between whoever is left standing

    1. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Too many people were using the HOV lanes in my state and tax revenue from gas sales dropped too low. Now they charge to use the HOV lanes, and no one uses them.

      I can't see this turning out any differently.

    2. Re:It didn't work the first time by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'll pay for a hard/dead tree copy of something....

      I don't feel like paying digital. Just seems less of value on digital.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:It didn't work the first time by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't feel like paying digital. Just seems less of value on digital.

      For me it has nothing to do with the value of the content or digital/dead tree. I just don't want to pay for something that I'm accustomed to getting for free even if it's a bargain. Not entirely rational, but that's the 'logic' behind my motivation.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    4. Re: It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      News is a waste of time and emotional energy.
      I dont pay to view any story.
      If I have to pay, I just dont care. Fuck off. I dont give a shit anymore now that the nazis have taken over and fucked the nation and world up beyond repair.

    5. Re:It didn't work the first time by sycodon · · Score: 1

      They want to do that on I-35 now.

      Austin is run by a bunch of fucking idiots.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    6. Re:It didn't work the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll never pay for anything advertiser-supported. I don't believe nor want advertising in my life. I started to see Roku ads suddenly, so I firewalled off the ads.

      I pay my very very rich ISP. Maybe they can pay content providers money for my leeching of data, I sure as hell am not going to, since nearly every one still has ads or supports advertising.

      I'll *never* change this, it's more important to me than the Internet or whatever social media exists.

    7. Re:It didn't work the first time by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      90% of what I read is in instapaper or pocket. I see an article I want to read, I save it for when I have time (usually when I'm offline). Gets rid of stupid formatting and auto-play ads, I can use the speed-reader function, or the app can read it out loud to me. Paywalls break that even if I pay for it. Stat news specifically has a problem with instapaper loading articles from it. They mix in paywalled articles with free ones, and they're not clearly marked as one or the other if you're subscribing. I go to read an interesting article on the plane with no wifi connection and get an annoyingly cheerful ad to subscribe which I already have.

    8. Re:It didn't work the first time by gnick · · Score: 2

      I'll never pay for anything advertiser-supported.

      Newspapers? Magazines? Movies with previews? A ride on a bus with a logo on the side?

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    9. Re:It didn't work the first time by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      You need to consider the content and the cost of creating it. I'm willing to pay for decent content, but I am hard pressed to find ANY US news outlet that covers local, regional, national, and international stories equally well. Even local papers have maybe three or four stories that are rather superficial, wrapped in 16 pages of baseball stats. Online is not any better. Many of the stories are carbon copies of AP or Reuters and get published hours if not days after European outlets covered them. If you want to get informed about the US read reputable British, German, or French newspapers.
      As far as ad revenue goes, I have no problems with ads as long as they are not the main content of a page. Put them on the right side, have them be static text or images, no video, no audio. Put some effort into the ads shown, not this AdChoice crap that shows me stuff that has no relevance to the region I live in. Why advertise for a store chain that has no presence here? Also, show ads and be done with it, means none of this tracking crap. The only alternative I am fine with is a 3 second full page ad before I get the content. In any case, optimize page loads. I recently complained to a local online newspaper that they removed the comment section below articles. They claimed it was for page load optimization. The comment section took milliseconds to load while all the ad crap added seconds causing constant content shifts while the ad images popped up all over the page. Do advertising the right way and people are less keen on blocking it.

  2. A problem that has no easy solution by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a problem that needs to be solved. Since copying content has become easy, how do the people who create content get paid? How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

    There are no easy solutions.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Easy solution: Build a wall around the paywalls and make the paywalls pay for it.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by OffTheLip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Evolve that's how. I fail to see how this problem is different than how the printing press put the screws to other means of information dissemination back in the day. Whoever figures out the way ahead will win. I doubt holding your information hostage from readers will be the answer.

    3. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by cmaurand · · Score: 2

      So you're suggesting extending single signon to actually be a clearing house for paywalls? Not a bad idea.

    4. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      There are no easy solutions.

      There are, the problem is the lack of human intelligence. A true independent media needs its own central bank to be immune to corporate influence, aka you'd build a media that had the ability to loan money to itself and build it into the system. That would be an anethema to the upper class however, you can see their feelings here about the common man:

      Former national security advisor on his reservations of the political awakening of the masses

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

    5. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Falos · · Score: 1

      * I think imaginary property is an oxymoron; we only pretend that someone owns a mental construct, everywhere in the universe simultaneously forever

      * I think creators should be given money for creating, perhaps even more than now; we like what's on git/s.overflow, sure, and in that vein we give thanks for every "good idea" since the dawn of mankind, they are the heroes of the species, not that anyone's sending royalties to the corpses of ancient greeks.

      Those two can stand next to each other fine in my philosophy. I have no idea how to make them stand next to each other in reality.

    6. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by gtall · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar. That just two sites for $30. One quickly runs out of money to pay for a reasonable collection of different editorial stances and investigative journalism.

      The current situation also means small sites that do not need much to spew their "contents" have an oversize influence. They do not have to pay for investigative journalism, or quality op-eds.

    7. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by gtall · · Score: 1

      Readers holding their money from information carriers will sink the carriers. You'll be left with spew, everywhere.

    8. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Maybe a media site should offer a Paywall or an Advertising site. (Sort of like YouTube constantly nagging: tired of ads?)

      If the Ads won't support the site for the visitors who elect Ads, then the problem would seem that the advertisers are not willing to pay enough to support the number of pages that visitors look at. Or the problem is that the content itself is not valuable enough to warrant visitors, or perhaps advertisers to be interested.

      If the Paywall isn't working, why is that? Is the subscription price too high? Or is the content too poor to be worth the asking price?

      It seems like other mediums were purely ad supported for a long time. Broadcast TV. Print Magazines. Even Newspapers primarily got their revenue from ads rather than subscriptions.

      Another problem with the ads is that they need to be quite different than ads are today. Static inline images from the originating website. No JavaScript. No malware. No bitcoin mining. There is a REASON people use ad blockers. And hey, if even your non-animated static no-javascript ads are too numerous, or too obnoxious, then I will solve the problem by not visiting your site again. Or you could charge the advertiser more for the ad impression. If the advertiser won't pay, then maybe your business model is broken. Either way, not my problem.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    9. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      No. I'm suggesting that there are always easy solutions. But they are not necessarily good ideas.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    10. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

      I think that ship sailed years ago, and it wasn't falling advertising revenue (although I'm sure news organizations will try to blame that) -- It was plain corporate greed.

      In today's reality-entertainment-fueled culture news organizations realized content filled more with Op-Ed than hard fact-finding still passed off as a "news report", and was much cheaper than investigating stories, staffing people to check facts before press, maintaining foreign bureaus, or flying reporters to locations to get the story.

      You don't have to check facts on suppositions and opinions, and people will accept it as a legitimate story when the same talking head on the screen is giving it.

    11. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by tattood · · Score: 2

      So you're suggesting extending single signon to actually be a clearing house for paywalls? Not a bad idea.

      This will end up with companies like Comcast or Cox that offer a "news bundle" service that you pay $50 a month for, and you get access to 10 different news sites. For an additional $10 a month, you get the premium package that includes Wall Street Journal and other sites.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    12. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by sheph · · Score: 2

      And neither of them are producing anything approaching a fraction of that value.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    13. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar.

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

    14. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like they donâ(TM)t get paid. The thing is that content creators get paid or there would simply not be any content today.

      How much does a reporter get paid? $50-100k/year and about $300k in gear, office space and supporting people. They have to cover maybe $5-15M/year for a good olâ(TM) regional reporting and publishing team.

      They charge about 10k/hour of ad space regionally and about $1M for national coverage (thatâ(TM)s based on the price list for IHeartRadio networks so Iâ(TM)m being very generous in assuming the cost for video and site coverage averages to the same).

      The problem is that the managers at CNN see milllions of hits on their site and although getting plenty of revenue from advertising already, they see each hit as a potential person that could pay as well as watch advertising.

      CNN and co arenâ(TM)t going broke, even if they were short on cash, politicians will make sure their message continues to go through.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    15. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by TharMonk · · Score: 1

      I agree with this, wholeheartedly. I found myself regularly visiting the copious amounts of content pouring out of the Washington Post, more than other papers, and I sometimes see they have some "deal" for a month for $1, but, when I actually go to investigate it, it winds up being $10 a month. Sorry, but news that I'll soon find everywhere else isn't worth $10 a month, to me, whereas $1 a month would've been fine, given the amount of times I find myself landing on one of their articles. Apparently, Amazon Prime has a deal with them, to allow prime subscribers 6 months free, after which their digital subscription renews at $4, which is _almost_ okay, but it's not quite tempting enough for me to pull the trigger. I realize that this is somewhat irrational, on my part, given that that's the cost of an overpriced cup of coffee, but the fact is, there's nothing in the Washington Post that won't wind up extensively covered for free, soon after it appears on the Post.

    16. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      It is also a lot cheaper now to generate content. People forget that. You don't need a printing press or a huge infrastructure.

    17. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

      Easy solution: Build a wall around the paywalls and make the paywalls pay for it.

      So... Yo dawg, I heard you like paywalls, so I put some paywalls around your paywalls.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    18. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by WheezyJoe · · Score: 1

      I think this is a good idea too. NYT's paywall is $15/mo. I presume Wash. Post is similar.

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Actually, daily delivery subscriptions DID cost that much and more, at least for the big papers like the NYT, Wash Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, etc., particularly if the big fat Sunday edition was included. And that was still a bargain over buying a copy at the newsstand.

      Adjust for inflation, $15/mo. is a deal.

      I'd first say internet users have short memories, but we more remember everything being free, because it used to be slow and experimental and buggy and... mostly free of spam and trolls (yeah, yeah, get off my lawn). Truth is, lots of Internet users would rather spend $15/mo. on something else... like Netflix, HBO, Hulu-plus, the Sling ESPN package... shucks, if you have to actually read the thing rather than just watch it, it's like you're putting in half the work!

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    19. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by flink · · Score: 1

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Back in my paperboy days (mid 90s), 7-day delivery of the Boston Globe cost something like $5-$7/week, plus you had to tip the paper boy. The Sunday edition alone costed $1.50 in print. $15/mo for the online edition seems fairly reasonable in comparison, especially adjusted for inflation. I think we've just been conditioned to not pay for news over the past 20 years.

    20. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      They've already solved it: They don't investigate anything. They pass off op-ed as news reporting.

    21. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      The last time I subscribed to a major metro newspaper, it cost me $10/mo for the daily (the Sunday was extra). That's what I'm remembering. Of course, I haven't run it through the inflation calculator...

    22. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      I would not trade all the negatives that come with single sign on dystopias just to fund screeds written by ideologues passing themselves off as journalists.

    23. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by brewthatistrue · · Score: 4, Informative

      In 2001, NYTimes increased newsstand prices in southern california to $0.50 with $1.50 for sunday.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02...

      I have no idea how much a delivery subscription cost at that time.

      That's $0.50 * 52 weeks * 6 days = $156.

      Add Sunday for $1.50 * 52 weeks * 1 day = $78.

      Add those and you get $234.

      A $15/mo subscription is $180.

      I am not sure how much of the NYT's costs come from the printing and distribution of phyisical newspapers, but I would have expected the prices to go down as a result of the digital editions.

      Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising, so they aren't really passing the straight costs onto their users anyway. That's why many sites still have advertising even for their paying subscribers, which is a deal breaker for me.

    24. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Is it? True, anyone can just throws words on the page, but creating and verifying accurate, factual, useful content takes time. And skill. And money.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    25. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by WheezyJoe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising

      Their costs were also heavily subsidized by classified ads. Huge source of revenue for any newspaper, large or small, now completely gone thanks to Craigslist, e-bay, etc. etc. That's a large part of the revenue that has to be made up since the glory days before the Internet.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    26. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by eddeye · · Score: 1

      This is the current problem with such sites -- that's too expensive. Back when you had to subscribe to newspapers, they didn't cost that much even with the additional expense of printing and distributing physical paper.

      Here's the kicker. The physical paper subscription is much cheaper - and it includes unlimited digital access. Check out the plans. Digital only for $100 / year or Sunday paper + digital sub for $40 / year. This is insane. I would sign up for the $40 a year plan to get digital access - but I refuse to have their nasty dead tree pulp deposited on my driveway.

      Even when newspapers go digital they fuck it up. Newspapers deserve to die if this is all the better they can do. Wasn't Bezos supposed to save WaPo? You can't teach and old dog new tricks.

      --
      Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    27. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      What did it cost you to recycle the newsprint?

      Nothing. I'm showing my age, but in those days, the Boy Scouts would pick up all your old newspapers and sell them to recyclers to make a few bucks.

    28. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by antdude · · Score: 1

      President Trump, is that you with your dick breath? :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    29. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      Major newspapers have been a $1 per day for a long time. Wall Street Journal went to $1.50 per issue in 2007. Subscription rates were $32, I think. Nowadays, print price subscription is $38/month. Similar rates for paper can be found across NYTimes, LATimes, and all the papers in between across the country. The cost of maintaining servers, secure sign-ons, archives... these things have taken the place of printing, so although overhead is likely smaller than it would be with paper and distro, it isn't zero, and paying the journalists/editors/delivery(now IT) staff has always been the most expensive aspect anyway. And all of that is BEFORE accounting for inflation.

      Bottom line: reliable news costs real money. And $15/month for online is very reasonable when you look at the cost of supplying that content.

    30. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by Eythian · · Score: 1

      I've been thinking the same. I just bought a nice tablet, and am looking for good larger form things to use with it. So far, I have a handful of newsy type sites bookmarked, and a subscription for The Guardian (€15/mo, which provides an OK app that mixes the linear newspaper flow with the advantages of being on digital) for breakfast reading. I've been wanting to add something like, I dunno, National Geographic or New Scientist or something to that, but I have to be choosy before it ends up costing more than I want to spend.

      I think the days of having a single newspaper and perhaps a magazine or so subscription should go away (now that there's not really quite the same concept of local), but the prices don't reflect that. I think if they were more like €3-5/mo I'd subscribe to a lot more. I already have a few things on Patreon etc, so it's not like I'm unwilling. But €15 feels big enough to not want to do it to many times over.

    31. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by strikethree · · Score: 1

      This is a problem that needs to be solved.

      Why does it need to be solved?

      Since copying content has become easy, how do the people who create content get paid? How do news organizations pay reporters to investigate stories?

      That is not a problem I need to solve. I pay (quite handsomely) for digital content that I like. Steam (for games mostly) is one such platform.

      As for "News" organizations? If they were truly giving me news instead of programming my expectations and biases (and other psychological warfare bullshit), I might actually pay for them too.

      There are no easy solutions.

      I don't care. Let it all disappear.

      Actually, within a few months, it will all disappear for me anyways. Once there is no more "Network Neutrality", I will elect to stop participating entirely. Thank god I have pirate backups of all of my Steam games (that I play on Linux).

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    32. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      The Guardian doesn't have a paywall or ads (just a few paid articles down near the bottom). They ask for either a one-time or on-going monthly contribution. If you don't give anything then they just keep the request at the bottom of articles but don't restrict your access. So if you think $15/month is too much you could make it $10/month or just $20 one time.

    33. Re: A problem that has no easy solution by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What does it cost me? I dump it in my recycling bin and wheel that to the curb every other Monday.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:A problem that has no easy solution by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Also, with the physical paper, the ads are sitting there on the page I'm reading. There's no such thing as Adblock Plus for paper.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Eyeballs you need to view your adds.

    1. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Somehow, newspapers thrived for hundreds of years by simply placing Ads on the periphery of the news stories. Nothing obscured your view of the story, nothing crawled across the bottom, etc. Advertisers provided the lions share of their revenue.

      Now the Ads drive people away. They get blocked and advertisers see no return on their investment...hence the need for Paywalls.

      Perhaps if your ads weren't so fucking obnoxious and intrusive.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Paywalls drive away eyeballs by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if your ads weren't so fucking obnoxious and intrusive.

      Oh come now. Just because those sites want to inject malware, and don't give a fuck when it also drains your bank account and refuse to accept any responsibility when the ransomware also gets installed because they refuse to vet any ads isn't their fault.

      You're just stealing from them or something. Really this is the type of stuff in-browser crypto mining should be for, visit the site knock out some CPU power, they get paid in whatever funds, and can cash it out. Now all you need to do is get the malware companies to stop flagging it as malware.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  4. Problem by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I may sign up for one subscription, but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

    1. Re:Problem by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the problem.

      It would be nice if there could be some sort of "online news bundle". Pay $10 a month and have access to a dozen or so newspapers. The system would distribute that $10 as appropriate to the papers depending on which ones I read the most.

      I don't want to have 15 different subscriptions! This is already becoming a problem in the streaming video world, with every company starting its own streaming service. I don't want it to become a problem for newspapers too.

      I have this desire to support the industry but don't want to have so many subscriptions. Find a way to bundle things and I may bite.

    2. Re: Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My local paper just reprinted AP stories. We had the internet before the internet, I just had to pay for it.

    3. Re:Problem by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Same with TV!

      It would be nice if there could be some kind of TV bundle.

      I don't want to have 15 different subscriptions to HBO, Starz, Netflix, Disney, NBC... Can't I just pay one company to bundle it all together?

      Oh wait....

    4. Re:Problem by Thyamine · · Score: 1

      This is the problem with subscriptions, I completely agree. I find it to be the same with streaming content. Ok I want Netflix, but now there's Amazon.. and Hulu.. and wait to watch the new Star Trek I have to buy a subscription for CBS who already broadcasts on TV? What?

      At least with newspaper or news sites, we were already doing this. If I wanted the New York Times, I had to buy a copy, or get a subscription. If we can get day passes for the price (or less) of a paper, or get subscriptions similarly, it makes sense. I _do_ want legit news stories and reporters doing real investigations though; not just some intern who is cobbling snippets from other headlines.

      --
      I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
    5. Re:Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My local newspaper takes care of this for me - they have commercial agreements with other newspapers to share content. I do not get access to the other newspapers but I get to read the stories that are "cherry picked" for me by my local newspaper. To date, this has been good enough. To put it simply, I don't care if a cat in a tree needs to be rescued from a tree in some obscure neighborhood but I might very well be interested in freeways being shut, etc.

    6. Re:Problem by tattood · · Score: 1

      you had a handful of magazine subscriptions that you read, if you had time, cover to cover. You couldn't get a hundred different articles from 85 different magazine sent to you each month onesy-twosy.

      That's what the grocery store and news stands were for. You could go and peruse through the magazines on display, and only buy the ones that had articles you were interested in.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    7. Re:Problem by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I may sign up for one subscription, but I'm not going to get $10/month subscriptions for 20 different websites that I occasionally visit.

      The problem isn't really the number of sites, it's the per site cost. I'm willing to get multiple subscriptions, but most websites have a VERY inflated sense of what their content is worth.

    8. Re:Problem by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      I want almost exactly the opposite of you. IMHO, nearly every single "bundle" in my life is a scam, where someone is using something I like to get me to subsidize something I think is lame and worthless. WTF do I care if I'm paying multiple entities? That's easy; we have computers now. The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want.

      What you are proposing is to lose all progress made in the last couple decades, and it sounds like I'd fund the people I like less than I do now.

      I want everything as fine-grained and micro-managed by me, as possible. (And just like the billing "problem"(?), we have computers now so what's-possible is going to be damn impressive.) When I "vote with my wallet" I do not want to fucking vote party ticket!! Every time I'm manipulated into doing otherwise, it's with resentment.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    9. Re:Problem by bradley.uffner2292 · · Score: 1

      What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

      I want almost exactly the opposite of you. IMHO, nearly every single "bundle" in my life is a scam, where someone is using something I like to get me to subsidize something I think is lame and worthless. WTF do I care if I'm paying multiple entities? That's easy; we have computers now. The total is probably going to be less, and even if it weren't less, I would almost certainly get more of what I want.

      What you are proposing is to lose all progress made in the last couple decades, and it sounds like I'd fund the people I like less than I do now.

      I want everything as fine-grained and micro-managed by me, as possible. (And just like the billing "problem"(?), we have computers now so what's-possible is going to be damn impressive.) When I "vote with my wallet" I do not want to fucking vote party ticket!! Every time I'm manipulated into doing otherwise, it's with resentment.

      The problem is, what would have been bundled as 10 things at $10 a month for the bundle, will now be sole separately as 10 things at $9 each.

    10. Re:Problem by tepples · · Score: 1

      I will read whatever the fuck, from however many the fuck, sites I want to.

      Then be prepared to pay however much the fuck, these sites charge.

    11. Re:Problem by n329619 · · Score: 1

      The problem is, what would have been bundled as 10 things at $10 a month for the bundle, will now be sole separately as 10 things at $9 each.

      Fair point. Interesting thing is that higher sole pricing might still be ok for op and the seller (publisher/distributor/whatever for the subscription). The seller gets to get the same profit from sole subscription (fewer people picking it, higher price) and bundles (more people picking it, lower price), while op can still support with his wallet.

    12. Re:Problem by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      Most sites are charging what is required to continue producing that information. When I've looked into budgets for a couple news orgs, the subscription costs are pretty much inline with the production costs, with a moderate but pretty narrow profit margin. If that cost isn't worth the cost to all of us, those sites will go away -- which has happened to most of the nation's local newspapers. It's really hard in most parts of the country to get local news because there's no one reporting it anymore.

    13. Re:Problem by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      Considering how the media is consolidating the same way all other businesses are the idea that this is going to become a reality in 10 years or less. At that point it's probably just going to take is for two or three companies to agree on sharing a paywall and $10 or $20 a month (plus inflation adjustments) is going to be way more than the total per-click revenue you're going to be able to generate them no matter how much clickbait they produce.

      All in all it's now pretty clear that the ad funded model people have thought would be able to sustain media since the dot.com boom is not going to be able to sustain media and the media is going to have to go back to relying on being getting their revenue from their readers/viewers and advertisers rather than just the advertisers.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    14. Re:Problem by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      Never, I am on the net since 1991, and I will never pay to read an article or view a video or whatever, I clicked 2 or 3 times on an ad to help site like /., that's it, my brain ignores ads on website. If a website nags you or ask for FB registration or whatever, I put it in my personnal blocklist so google search will not display them

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    15. Re:Problem by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Re-read the parent again. It says that the money would be split according to usage of the websites which is what you want. It's not micro transactions but it's not needed. A simple percentage of page hits would be fair enough to split up the monthly fee as long as they didn't create pages that pop out as part of the articles.

  5. The amount of news I need to see has decreased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

    1. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by shmlco · · Score: 2

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that accurate and factual national and international news is definitely essential information.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      As a former news junkie I can tell you that ignorance is time-saving. Unless you are "in the biz" whatever that business is, being well informed about a bunch of things that don't directly effect you and you have no real influence over is a distraction from the things that really matter in your life. Yes it is hard to sort that out, what is relevant or not, but I would have to say that being able to proactively search out information from primary sources in many instances is of far more benefit than sifting through a myriad of news stories for the story of the day.

      I still read a lot, but I am trying to read fewer and fewer article and paywalls make that decision easier.

    3. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by tattood · · Score: 4, Funny

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      Thank you for your valuable input, Mr President.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    4. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by sheph · · Score: 2

      Yes. Finding it is the challenge.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    5. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by WheezyJoe · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      Thank you for your valuable input, Mr President.

      Indeed. From the horse's mouth, "I Love the Poorly Educated".

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    6. Re:The amount of news I need to see has decreased by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing 2017 has taught me, it's that national and international news is not essential information.

      2017 taught me that it's all FAKE NEWS, so why bother paying for it?

  6. Okay, and... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

    Honestly? I have no problems paying a sub to visit the WSJ and/or similar trusted, thorough news sources. Maybe as a bonus it'll knock the clickbait bullshit sites offline? Likely not, since many of those sites (especially political clickbait sites) usually have massive backers (e.g. MoveOn was launched and backed financially by George Soros, etc.)

    Something to consider - maybe freebie sites that don't have a massive media presence in another medium (or some other visible and transparent means of non-biased/partisan financial support) should eventually be written off as mere propaganda sites? Certainly there are good sites that are small and struggling, that try to get it right, that do a decent job of investigation and such, but they seem to be very few and very far between these days. Just a thought.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Okay, and... by gtall · · Score: 2

      Nope, there are too many people who are happy with the echo chambers they visit. They wouldn't recognize propaganda if it danced naked in front of them.

    2. Re:Okay, and... by Alypius · · Score: 1

      No, people will just read a headline for free, make assumptions based on their beliefs, and then convince themselves that they know what the article talked about. Just like they do now.

  7. I wonder by zippo01 · · Score: 1

    This could be interesting when looked at in the net neutrality conversation. Pay for CNN, get internet access to CNN. The paywall is the connection? Maybe. On yhe other hand who care if you have a connection if every website is pay walled? I refuse to pay for anything on the internet. I see this ending badly for pay walled placed like nyt, CNN, etc.

    1. Re:I wonder by shmlco · · Score: 2

      "I refuse to pay for anything on the internet."

      Then you get nothing but the crap you deserve.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:I wonder by zippo01 · · Score: 1

      That is way double talk! its ok for the site to charge what ever, but not the provider? Why should I have to pay for internet services and speeds I don't need to subsidize everyone else? Why shouldn't services who use more resources pay more then those who don't? They are both providing a service, you either say the internet is open and free in which case net neutrality and no pay walls, or it a capitalist free system and everything goes. Not half of one and half the other. Picking winners and losers like that will make everyone losers in the end.

    3. Re:I wonder by WheezyJoe · · Score: 2

      People STILL don't know what Net Neutrality is about.
      Net Neutrality is not that all content should be free from content creators. Paywalls are just fine. Net Neutrality is about what the guy-in-the-middle can do, your ISP, the guy who's supposed to just shut up and deliver the packets, but who now thinks he's got the right to add a little extra for himself.

      Net Neutrality rules prevent your ISP, and any intermediate provider between you and your content, from inspecting what it delivers to you before it delivers to you, and charging the sender a fee to deliver it to you.

      Think Comcast, which owns Universal, billing Disney for the delivery of its packets along the last mile to your house. Why? Because Comcast owns the wires and the equipment between you and the rest of Internet, because streaming Disney movies requires a lot of Comcast's bandwidth (think equipment upgrades, more fiber, angry customers saying service sucks), and why should Disney get all the money (from your subscription with Disney) when Comcast's wires are crucial to you consuming the content? The MBA's at Comcast feel like they are doing Disney a service, providing this last mile of delivery, and with their monopoly over subscription territory, they got Disney by the balls, so it's time to give 'em a squeeze.

      Net Neutrality means delivering Internet is boring... shut up and deliver, regardless of content or sender. On December 14, this rule will disappear (on a party-line vote), and delivering Internet will become super-exciting, because ISP's can discriminate between one packet and another, throttling some content and expediting others. So, Disney may have to charge you a dollar more to stream that movie because, too bad, you're on Comcast and Comcast throttles non-Universal content; your friend on FIOS may get Disney cheaper because Verizon chooses not to throttle Disney packets. Or maybe Disney will just hike up subscription fees on everybody, just to be safe. Gee, ain't de-regulation great. May weasels eat Ajit Pai's eyes out and piss up his nostrils.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
  8. Paywalls don't help those big expensive scoops by klingens · · Score: 2

    You still neeed only a young, cheap journalist to write the recap, but now he also needs a single cheap subscription for the paywall. Can you finance those expensive investigative journalistic scoops on those few subscriptions from other journalists?

    DRM already tried this model and they lost: there only one cracker for the DRM was needed and the war was lost: the media is on bittorrent and OCHs. Good crackers are actually much much rarer than these cheap young journalists. It took almost around year for Denuvo to be cracked, BluRay longer I think, etc.
    All the scoops: less than 5 minutes for a recap to appear on all the other big sites. News works 24/7.

    And in less than 5 years it will probably be a deep learning algorithm by google or amazon that writes the recaps, like they can do sports news today already. It will be marketed as "awesome AI", which of course it isn't. So not even cheap young journalists will be needed anymore

  9. Re:Until it backfires ... by edtice1559 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay. I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny. I have no idea why anybody would expect to get their news for free. Real journalism is a resource-intensive process that has to be funded. Now I don't *like* the current paywalls in that I often get blocked from content I've paid for since I haven't logged in on a particular device or linked a publisher to a specific account. But having the price for quality news set at zero is nonsensical.

  10. Need a version of the Associated Press for the web by fropenn · · Score: 1

    The Associated Press approach seems to work pretty well for news. We need an expanded version of this approach for all of the various (non-news) things the internet offers. In this way you might subscribe to one site but get access to the work from multiple players. In this way small players could work together to share revenue and content with each other. This solves the issue of subscribers having to pay a small monthly amount to 20 different sources and gives these sources a non-advertising source of revenue.

  11. Cause and causality.. by CptLoRes · · Score: 1

    They positioned the well with overly aggressive advertisement, and now they wonder why they are getting thirsty?

  12. Follow the lead of Webcomics: Patreon by Terwin · · Score: 1

    Webcomics have a similar problem when it comes to revenue, and many of them have turned to voluntary donations like Patreon where you can schedule a regular monthly donation to your preferred sites.

    Combined with some unobtrusive ads, it seems to work pretty well for lots of artists.
    (some even add bonus content for those that donate over a certain amount, such as a browser cookie that disables the ads on their site for the month)

  13. Re:Good by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

    As long as there are activist billionaires, I suspect the propaganda organs among them will still have income if they truly need it.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  14. Nothing like being nickled and dimed by cmaurand · · Score: 1

    to death. All of these paywals want you to subscribe. They all want you to pay roughly $10.00 per month. So now you pay for 2 or 3 paywals, plus a media streamer or two and you're paying the same or more as if you never cut the cord in the first place. What's the point? I realize that news organizations need to make a living, but they need to live with slimmer subscription margins. subscriptions need to be sub $5.00/month It's not going to work.

  15. Billionaire Propagandists Rejoice! by Inviska · · Score: 1

    This is going to give a powerful voice to people who can afford to pay for it. With more newspapers and websites adding a paywall, the market will be left open for wealthy people to buy newspapers, operate them at a loss, and use them as their personal mouthpiece. Wealthy individuals already have significant influence on our society, and their influence will only grow when theirs is the only opinion we can read for free.

    This is a worrying situation.

  16. to make it work, go micropayment exchange by swschrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers. Joe Surfer makes a deposit. every news site he now hits, there is a deduction to the provider to pay for the posting. why in hell can't they do this, and be assured of a wider, non-PO'ed audience providing cash?

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by tattood · · Score: 3, Informative

      central micropayments site for the media providers.

      There's your problem. There won't be one central micropayment provider. You'll end up like the e-wallet (PayPal, Apple Wallet, Samsung Pay) where there are multiples and users have to put money in multiple providers. That, or the content providers will need to have accounts with all of the micropay providers.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    2. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Aaden42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Jake Surfer here... Not sure I can speak 100% for my brother Joe, but if I have to think, "Gee... I wonder if I'm just gonna get scammed out of half a penny with a bunch of clickbate if I follow this link," you can bet I'd be following a whole lot fewer links. Also, why am I giving someone an interest free loan so they can hold onto my money and deduct some of it for every piece of clickbate I get fed?

      The problem is less lack of payment mechanism and more lack of quality / necessity. There are no shortage of places that provide reliable, relevant news. The supposed "journalistic integrity" that I might be willing to pay for gets eroded a little bit more every time ${majorNewsSite}.com parrots the prevailing party line without even a scrap of effort to contradict obvious lies and policy 180's.

      There will be a lot more digital blood to bathe in before anything of value is lost.

    3. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if there is only one provider, then you run into the problems if they misbehave as you won't have any options other than just not paying.

      The issue here is that these sites haven't figured out how to convince customers that what they're selling is worth what they're charging. Making matters worse is that an increasing number of people wouldn't have the money to pay in the first place.

      back when they were delivering papers, they could make the case based purely on the fact that they printed it, plus their reputation. These days, the cost to provide it is hard to understand by the consumer and in many cases the stories are available elsewhere for less.

    4. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      ...well, until Visa, MC, Barclays, and/or Amex gets in on the act. Then it just slipstreams into the existing providers of CC/Debit payment services, and life goes on as usual.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by mspohr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Jake Surfer here... Not sure I can speak 100% for my brother Joe, but if I have to think, "Gee... I wonder if I'm just gonna get scammed out of half a penny with a bunch of clickbate if I follow this link," you can bet I'd be following a whole lot fewer links. Also, why am I giving someone an interest free loan so they can hold onto my money and deduct some of it for every piece of clickbate I get fed?

      The problem is less lack of payment mechanism and more lack of quality / necessity. There are no shortage of places that provide reliable, relevant news. The supposed "journalistic integrity" that I might be willing to pay for gets eroded a little bit more every time ${majorNewsSite}.com parrots the prevailing party line without even a scrap of effort to contradict obvious lies and policy 180's.

      There will be a lot more digital blood to bathe in before anything of value is lost.

      I agree that clickbait will still be a problem. That's why it's good to support ${majorNewsSite}.
      (BTW, the only ${majorNewsSite} that parrots the prevailing party line that I know of is Fox news. The others have all been branded with Trump's "fake news" label which is a sure sign that they must have spoken some truth to power.)

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    6. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, it's only Fox that does it... The others are bastions of objectivity. Seriously?

    7. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Some say that ignorance is bliss...

      I say ignorance is just ignorance.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    8. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by jarlsberg71 · · Score: 1

      I'm curious.. I Am no fox fan, and while the CNN/MSNBC haven't lost credibility to me. I know the audience they're trying to enrage, and I can't take that non-stop.

      Anyone else enjoy Vice News?

      --
      E8B8B
    9. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by Agripa · · Score: 2

      I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers. Joe Surfer makes a deposit. every news site he now hits, there is a deduction to the provider to pay for the posting. why in hell can't they do this, and be assured of a wider, non-PO'ed audience providing cash?

      And then it becomes third party data subject to mass surveillance for use against you in court with the added bonus of demonstrating a monetary transaction across state lines. It is not like this is not already the case but why make it easier? No thanks.

      Let me know when I can pay in untraceable cash.

    10. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      And you can flog it for 50 more hopefully. Not every page I load is worth me paying for it.

      The NYT site allows you to view 10 free articles a month. And that system works fine when you always know that the link you click on is going to take you to their site. But sometimes the article doesn't say where the link goes to but just has a heading and you forget to look or, worse, the link uses a URL shortener so that you can't tell where you end up.

      In that case you just lose a free view but imagine if hitting those pages started to cost you money. And how do you know how much a page is going to cost before you go there? A free and open web is the only way. You may be willing to pay a bit every month to view the pages you want but want about the poor of the world? Do you think micropayment will really stay with sites like news sites?

      I like how the Guardian newspaper has handled their site. Everything is available. There is a row of paid articles that are well marked as such near the bottom of a few pages but no other ads. At the bottom of articles they ask you to contribute. If you don't nothing happens. There's no limit to the number of articles you can see.

    11. Re:to make it work, go micropayment exchange by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The others screw up unfortunately often, but they seem to do a better job of hunting down the facts and correcting themselves when they're wrong.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  17. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This will be great for people who have money and want to push an agenda. As more and more content becomes paywalled, non-paywalled content will become more viewed, since many viewers won't have the willingness or inclination to pay for the content. Organizations that don't need income from viewers will continue to leave their content non-paywalled.

  18. Nope, just a simple one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Easy and simple are not the same thing. Easy was letting 3rd party companies manage advertisement sales (and of course get a cut) for the publisher.

    Simple is going back to direct-sales marketing management. Let bloggers and YouTube use 3rd parties, NYT, WaPo, and more should be selling their valuable screen real-estate directly and reaping all the money from that.

    I mean... damn people. Its not complex, just more work. Since the YouTube Adpocalypse many YouTubers have started doing sponsored content (many more than were before all the kerfluffle). Even controversial left- and right-wing vloggers are managing to put together advertising deals to support themselves. And most of them are idiots!

    I've been on about this for years now, because this lack of managing one's own content is terrible for everyone, even investors. 3rd party ad networks are garbage. Advertisers have little control over where their ads are displayed (because its not about the content of the pages, its about the person looking at the page). Content creators have little control over what is advertised on their pages for the exact same reason! And this is the world its leading to, with more and more people choosing to block ads, with more and more "controversies" over ads being shown next to controversial content.

    Paywalls are just a great way to stop growing your audience. Sure, you can cannibalize your existing audience and survive on them for a while, but they are nothing more than life-support for a failing business. Go back to the old ways and find better ways to modernize them. Put people back into the system for a while, and make sure they stay there, because AI is simply not going to catch up anytime soon, and the people running the ad networks care as much about content creators and advertisers as the guy in India cares about any of the 7 corporations in the US he's answering the phone for. Ad networks need to show more, and get more clicks, and to do that, they cheat. Just like that call center in India wants you off the phone as fast as possible to take the next call because they get paid by call volume and no other metric.

  19. Disable javascript.... by Berkyjay · · Score: 1

    Problem solved.

    1. Re:Disable javascript.... by tepples · · Score: 1

      It's possible to render an abstract and credit card form with only HTML, CSS, and cookies.

  20. Would micropayments help? by jhecht · · Score: 1

    A micropayment system that could pay a few pennies per story might help. It's worth 1-5 cents to take a look at a hot news story, and maybe 10-20 cents for a longer magazine read. Generate enough traffic and it will pay the bills for the real news organizations. What it takes is building a micropayment system without somebody skimming more than their share off the top of each transaction. I don't mind paying for content I read, but I like to read varied content from different sources, so that way I could sample broadly, then subscribe to the handful I read the most. It's much better than wading through crapvertising that sometimes is carrying malware.

  21. Nothing will change. by Alypius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People will continue to read a headline for free, make assumptions based on their beliefs, and convince themselves they know what the article talked about.

  22. There's no wall by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "Right now, the preferred method is the paywall. The New York Times has one. The Washington Post has one."

    No, they haven't. They have a pay-cookie, delete it and there's no 'wall'.
    Or just install one of the extensions that resets them immediately

  23. Re:Until it backfires ... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't mind paying, but I do mind paying AND being annoyed.

    I dropped my NYT subscription because it showed the same unstoppable video, the same annoying adverts and the same Nicholas Kristof whining. I expected the latter but not the former.

    And quit pestering me to get a gift subscription to somebody else.

    Absolutely tasteless. So no money to them.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  24. Don't give a damn any more.... by no-body · · Score: 1

    "They" want money for that:

    https://motherboard.vice.com/e...
    and:
    This website (www-blahblah) attempted to extract HTML5 canvas image data, which may be used to uniquely identify your computer."

    - not from me.... severely scale down on that shit....

    Ah - then Slashdot forces one to view on brain-damanged m.slashdot.org, no matter how huge your iPad is, not using that anymore either.

    What was that:
    https://hackernoon.com/more-th...

    anyone can claim that comments are fake - who controls that statement and the disputes of it?

  25. I'm prepared... by c · · Score: 1

    Got my back button primed and everything.

    I appreciate that people have gotta make money, but I'm not paying for a news subscription. Someone needs to figure out a sane microtransaction platform sooner than later.

    --
    Log in or piss off.
  26. Re:Until it backfires ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay

    You're joking, right? The internet devolved into a shithole of ads, malware, and scams from the very first days of Flash, popups, and those goddamned "punch the monkey" ads. And it's only gotten worse.

    Over time, the degree to which you need to block 3rd party javascript, analytics, and other crap has gotten insane. I'd say the average web page has around 10 external parasites ... and I'm sorry, but I didn't sign up with them and didn't agree to their terms of service, which is why I block them ruthlessly.

    Trusting any online entity with your actual name or financial information is just making you a target for getting your information stolen when they inevitably get hacked.

    Sorry, but the greedy douchebags and assholes started this, and the reality is they've pretty much fucked up the whole game for everyone else.

    For now, there's a remarkable amount of national broadcasters around the globe with good quality free content to let you get different editorial slants. But most media in the US these days is increasingly owned by a hand full of rich assholes, who I have no intention of enriching.

    So, you'll forgive me for not giving a fuck, when ads have been a source of malware and other bullshit for almost as long as we've had web browsers. Kill off some of those parasites, give me an internet I can trust, and sites who I can rely on to have some decent security, and we'll talk.

    But incompetent idiots with shit security are just the icing on the cake as far as why the paid internet can go fuck themselves.

  27. Cancelled my Wired print subscription around 2014 by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    Having subscribed since the second issue in 1993 or 1994, starting with the third issue. they finally priced me out of paper, despite design and my personal preference for the tactile experience kept me until my max price was finally exceeded.

    Now I read the occasional article, but I found I wasn't that interested after all. A paywall will just make that a less frequent occurrence.

    And nothing of value will be lost for me.

    Of the other paywalled publications, most object to my adblocker so vehemently I avoid the 'free' stuff the would have permitted me to read. and nothing of value is lost there either.

    I wish them luck. They will need it.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  28. Returning to the Old Paradigm by Koreantoast · · Score: 1

    Perhaps then we're returning to the pre-Internet paradigm where you probably get a single newspaper and a small handful of magazines. Except at least in the Internet era, we're no longer locked into the one local paper in our small town.

  29. If this lets me use an ad-blocker... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    If this lets me use an ad-blocker, then I welcome it. Truth be told, I already pay for a half-dozen or so sites I value anyway -- so for me, little would change.

  30. Adult Check: grown-ups can pay for nice things by tepples · · Score: 2

    I've been flogging this horse for maybe 20 years... central micropayments site for the media providers.

    That existed 20 years ago, and it was called Adult Check. Subscribers gained access to all participating sites, and sites were paid per page view. I guess if you ignore the erotica on the network, you could explain the name as "Because grown-ups can pay for nice things."

    The problem comes when a single company operates both an ad network and a micropayment network. Such an operator has an incentive to track viewers' browsing habits across the Internet in order to build a dossier on their interests. For example, Google operates AdSense/AdWords on the one hand and Contributor on the other.

    A micropayment provider will appear more trustworthy to viewers if it doesn't have ads as a side business.

  31. Get what you, or someone else pays for by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

    The fact that news costs money to produce and deliver has never stopped being an issue, there was just a brief period of easy capital where players tried to stake out their turf in the digital world. What people don't seem to realize is that if you are getting your news for free it means someone else has paid for it. It's naive to believe the only advertising they see is obvious and commercial, when the media has always been seen as a way to push viewpoints. Your ad blocker doesn't work when the ad is the content.

  32. It's a conspiracy! by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

    Very soon the only free-to-read news media will be far left/right populist, conspiracy theory and other nutwing media with agendas.

    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  33. Don't make 40MB web pages by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    There's something to be said here about efficiency. If bandwidth is a commodity then conserve it, write pages smartly. Don't have auto playing videos, huge parallax backgrounds, giant click through splash pages because you arrogantly believe everyone should see your quote of the day... Instead have some consideration for each element you send to the user. Make better use of vector based graphics. Use bitmaps sparingly.

  34. Not going to work. by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

    How will all of the big blue media companies control the (growing) population of have-nots who can't afford the nickel? They are still going to vote....

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  35. Re:Until it backfires ... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

    Maybe the reason that the internet is devolving is your unwillingness to pay. I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny.

    Well, only one (the Economist) is. The rest have devolved into holdovers from the days of Yellow Journalism.

    Now, the preceding opinion is *why* your assertion isn't as clear-cut. To wit, what you think to be "worth every penny", others may think of as propaganda organs for $politicalParty. But then, such people will happily pay for their favored news sites of choice. Or, like in my case, would only bother with paying for subs to sites (WSJ, Economist, and similar) that carefully unearth and curate the straight news with as little bias as possible, and not bend/twist/mutilate it to fit the political narratives of their ownership. Sites that provide actual insight an analysis, with no regard to any particular political view or ideology.

    Those sites are few and far between, while clickbait political propaganda organs are more plentiful than blades of grass in Iowa.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  36. Re:CNN is building a paywall? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    > Who in their right mind would EVER pay for CNN?

    I think one would have to be in their left mind to pay for CNN.

    Of course, FoxNews is completely fair and balanced. Unbiased. Truthful. Not propaganda at all. (snicker)

    It's really a matter of what echo chamber one wants to listen to. But CNN joined FoxNews in quality once CNN closed all their foreign bureaus and fired all their investigative reporters. It's all talking heads now. Talking heads all the way down. Like turtles.

    Then there is the Leftist Tree data structure.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  37. BBC by mspohr · · Score: 1

    If we has a sane public policy rather than rampant neoliberalism, we could do as the UK does and fund a BBC type news organization out of a tax.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  38. Multiple micropay providers by tepples · · Score: 1

    or the content providers will need to have accounts with all of the micropay providers.

    What practical problem do you see with expecting each publisher to have accounts with all of the micropay providers?

    1. Re:Multiple micropay providers by tattood · · Score: 1

      What practical problem do you see with expecting each publisher to have accounts with all of the micropay providers?

      There is some amount of coding (and maintenance) work that needs to be done to add each provider to their website. Also, each provider may have different fees or rules that a website may not agree to.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
  39. Combination of subscription and ad revenue by tepples · · Score: 2

    the problem would seem that the advertisers are not willing to pay enough to support the number of pages that visitors look at

    Correct. This is the model of print newspapers, print magazines, and pay television. Neither subscription revenue alone nor advertising revenue alone is enough to fully fund the production of works of authorship without, say, making every pay TV channel as expensive as HBO. Only the sum of the two is sufficient.

    Is the subscription price too high?

    Yes in many cases. $25,000 per year for one article that happens to be exclusive to the Bloomberg subscription is far too high for the vast majority of individual readers. Even a more modest $4 per month is cost-prohibitive for someone who reads only one article per month from a given site. Anything lower than $4, however, and the commission that a merchant pays to a payment processor for each transaction begins to dominate.

    Static inline images from the originating website.

    Does this mean that you propose to eliminate the intermediary ad network or ad exchange? If so, how would you expect a smaller site to afford to hire ad sales personnel in order to find advertisers and sell ad space directly to them?

    Or you could charge the advertiser more for the ad impression.

    Publishers already charge the advertisers more for what the Internet advertising industry calls "rich" ads. But publishers have come to rely on the increased revenue for rich ads as the new normal.

    1. Re:Combination of subscription and ad revenue by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      This is the model of print newspapers, print magazines, and pay television. Neither subscription revenue alone nor advertising revenue alone is enough

      Not only the combination as the summation of the revenues, but the "synergy" too. The price of newspaper stops people from using it to make toilet paper, fireplace fuel, packing material etc. I have used newspapers to wipe wounds while camping - once you tightly wrinkle the newspaper by compressing in a ball and straighten it again multiple times, it works reasonably well.

      Online doesn't have newsprint expenses, and their "consumers" also lack the motivation to make secondary usage of their services.

      Does this mean that you propose to eliminate the intermediary ad network or ad exchange? If so, how would you expect a smaller site to afford to hire ad sales personnel in order to find advertisers and sell ad space directly to them?

      This problem is identical to the one the paper newspapers of the previous century, right ?

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  40. Re:Until it backfires ... by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    People expect to get their news for free because that is what they have done their whole lives. Print newspapers charged a small minimal fee but their main revenue was from advertising, just like it is now. The problem is they lost their vertical integration and someone else owns the printing presses.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  41. It just downed on me by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    A lot of madness in the current public discussion comes from people reading too much biased news. Most of it is on the left but the right has a few juicy ones to keep the balance. What will happen if all of those are behind a paywall so there is not much inflammatory I mean investigative journalism to share and read for free?

    Maybe it will be peace across the land again.

  42. Do libraries subscribe to popular sites? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Has it become common for public libraries in the United States, in both large and small cities and in states with both conservative- and liberal-leaning legislatures, to carry subscriptions to popular paywalled websites? Could I, say, visit a library branch, put in my library card number, and read WSJ.com articles without charge?

  43. Sell Bundled like Texture does for Magazines by atrimtab · · Score: 2

    The solution is bundle publications for a fixed price per month. Texture sells access to about 200 magazines for $10/month on phones and tablets, but not on the web.

    See:

    https://www.texture.com/

    Of course, this works much like the much derided Cable TV bundle. Don't think of it as a TV bundle. Think of it as Netflix for newspapers. The monthly costs are spread across enough content that purchasers do not feel ripped off even if they only read a subset of the offerings.

    Here is the list of magazines Texture offers:

    https://www.texture.com/all-ti...

    Texture magazines are somewhat searchable. There are highlights and even some daily news.

    What we don't know with Texture is how all the various publishers are being compensated from the monthly subscriptions fees readers are providing.

    I won't pay $2 for a magazine on Google, but I will pay $10/month for access to over 200 magazines. It keeps the rest of family happy too.

    --
    Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
  44. I treat Paywalls by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    the same way I treat the full screen notices that demand I disable my ad-blocker.

    I simply shut down the tab and move on.

    If the story or information is worthy enough, it will be found on someone elses site.

  45. Re:Until it backfires ... by link-error · · Score: 1

    "Those sites are few and far between"

      So you've found some? Care to share?

    --
    -Unresolved symbol? Byte me!
  46. Google should stop indexing paywalled sites! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Want a paywall? Sure, you can do that. But you'll have to give up traffic from search engines and find potential subscribers on your own. Google shouldn't be complicit in your drug dealer "the first hit is free" sales strategy.

    1. Re:Google should stop indexing paywalled sites! by el_smurfo · · Score: 1

      Some like LA Times give you a few free per month. After that, I don't bother clicking. There's very little content that won't be posted elsewhere for less. If I were to start such a subscription, it would probably be to a truly unbiased media source like the Intercept.

  47. Advertising IS the problem by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    Once upon a time I had multiple magazine subscriptions. Some cost upwards of $15 / month each.

    As time went by, I noticed there were more ads in my magazine than there was actual content.

    At which point I cancelled my subscriptions. Can't see any reason to pay a monthly fee for what amounted to nothing but advertising. :|

  48. Would I be paying to get ads? by kwerle · · Score: 1

    If I pay for one of these sites (WSJ, LAT, etc), will I be paying for the privilege of seeing ads, too?

    1. Re:Would I be paying to get ads? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I just signed up for wapo via amazon. I don't mind paying the little they are asking if they will do a reasonable job of the journalism and it is refreshed daily. There are ads (there were in the paper version too). I'll be more interested to see how much new content there is each day, after all the old paper was completely new each day. I suspect some of the content will stick around online longer.

      --
      Nullius in verba
  49. Build a wall? by el_smurfo · · Score: 1

    Does it seem odd that the same media companies that lambaste Trump's wall rhetoric now want to erect walls of their own to keep folks from coming onto their digital properties and taking content that they don't legally have rights to.

  50. subscriptions and ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Then again, as someone else said, their costs are subsidized by advertising, so they aren't really passing the straight costs onto their users anyway. That's why many sites still have advertising even for their paying subscribers, which is a deal breaker for me.

    The print version of newspapers have ads as well. Just because you paid $0.50 (or whatever) for the NYT on paper didn't mean you got a bunch of dead trees without ads: you paid for the paper and got the ads. This is true of just about all newsprint that I've ever come across.

    The only two exceptions that come to mind was/is Consumer Reports and Cook's Illustrated, both of which were completely subscribed-supported and without ads.

  51. Government-funded sources by dskoll · · Score: 1

    BBC, CBC, NPR, etc. might end up being the only viable investigative news organizations.

    You may now begin the flames.

  52. by by Internet by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Between all the trackers and pay walls the Internet is going down the shitter.

  53. Not all articles are on those 4 sites by tepples · · Score: 1

    I pay for the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, and The Washington Post. And they are well worth every penny.

    So what do you do when someone shares with you a link to an article in a publication other than the four you mentioned, such as The Wall Street Journal?

    1. Re: Not all articles are on those 4 sites by tepples · · Score: 1

      I ignore links people send me.

      Yet you're on Slashdot, a site that's all about links the editors send you. Numerous stories on Slashdot have been from WSJ, and quite a few times, the "alternate source" was also paywalled.

  54. They add up quickly by tepples · · Score: 1

    What is bad about having multiple subscriptions?

    It's simple: To get any sort of breadth of subject matter or perspective, you'd end up having...

    To view the rest of this comment, log in or subscribe to comments by tepples

    1. Re:They add up quickly by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      I'll give you a +1 Funny, but only if you split it proportionally between all the contributors to comments by tepples

  55. I block trackers, not ads. by tepples · · Score: 1

    Except I don't block ads per se. I use Firefox tracking protection to block things that track my viewing habits from one website to another. When a site serves ads that don't track me, as on Daring Fireball, I see them. But for over a year, Wired confused tracking protection with an ad blocker instead of serving ads that don't track me. TV Tropes still does.

  56. Reddit by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Reddcoin

    That is all.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  57. Javascript already keeps me away by JThundley · · Score: 1

    I bail on websites that don't work after allowing 2-3 javascript domains. Do they really think erecting another barrier is going to keep me on their site and make get out my credit card? What a joke!

  58. Re:Cancelled my Wired print subscription around 20 by antdude · · Score: 1

    I only get magazines for free when I find free offers.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  59. Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    http://www.shirky.com/writings...
    "This strategy [of micropayments] doesn't work, because the act of buying anything, even if the price is very small, creates what Nick Szabo calls mental transaction costs, the energy required to decide whether something is worth buying or not, regardless of price. ... Like the salami slicing exploit in computer crime, micropayment believers imagine that such tiny amounts of money can be extracted from the user that they will not notice, while the overall volume will cause these payments to add up to something significant for the recipient. But of course the users do notice, because they are being asked to buy something. Mental transaction costs create a minimum level of inconvenience that cannot be removed simply by lowering the dollar cost of goods. Worse, beneath a certain threshold, mental transaction costs actually rise, a phenomenon is especially significant for information goods. It's easy to think a newspaper is worth a dollar, but is each article worth half a penny? Is each word worth a thousandth of a penny? A newspaper, exposed to the logic of micropayments, becomes impossible to value. ..."

    My alternative solution is a *mix* of four types of economic activities:
    * people producing their own personal content through better personal tools (subsistence production)
    * a basic income (to soften the rough edges and rich-get-richer exchange economy)
    * people giving away high-quality content (gift economy)
    * more government funding of free information providers (an improved democratically-planned command economy)

    The promotion of artificial scarcity (e.g. paywalls for digital content) as a way to fund content is one of the biggest problems we are facing as we transition to post-scarcity. There are several reason artificial scarcity is a problem -- but one of the biggest is that ensuring artificial scarcity in an age of technological abundance ultimately requires the equivalent of a police state monitoring everything everyone does 24X7.

    See also Alfie Kohn: http://www.alfiekohn.org/artic... and Dan Pink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:Shirky in 2003 on why micropayments don't work by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

      What do we have a material shortage of?

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  60. enjoy being tracked by bingoUV · · Score: 1

    You do understand by "logging in", you are being tracked even better than websites track you for advertising to you , right ?

    --
    Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    1. Re:enjoy being tracked by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      There may or may not be tracking. I'll probably add fuel to your fire, but I read all of these on a Kindle device where the paper downloads with no advertisements. Now Amazon may be tracking which articles I spend the most time on, but I'm not looking at ads. I see a lot of complaints in this thread about the various websites. And there is certain some veracity to the claims. If you really object to the web sites, you could order the print edition or the kindle edition. In the end, my original assertion stands. You have to pay for quality journalism.

  61. Marginalizing themselves even faster by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    Paywalls are a short-sighted solution. Soon enough, even the Times will lose its remaining influence once it's only preaching to the converted.

  62. This is Increasing Political Polarisation by Maxymoos · · Score: 1

    I'm concerned that in the UK this is making left/right polarisation worse - In the political centre we have the BBC and on the left we have the Independent and Guardian, all free. All the serious right of centre/conservative news sources are paywalled (Times, Telegraph, Spectator). So the free news sources are left biased, or hard right.

  63. Re:Until it backfires ... by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

    I obviously have no way to quantify this, but as my job involves interacting with people, knowing what's going on in the world certain seems like a basic prerequisite. And the annual cost of all of the subscriptions is about my hourly pay rate, so I would say that yes, we can conclude that the subscriptions more than pay for themselves.

  64. Print publishers didn't compete with trackers by tepples · · Score: 1

    Online doesn't have newsprint expenses

    Hosting facilities aren't without cost. Amazon charges real money for EC2, S3, and CloudFront.

    This problem [of selling ad space] is identical to the one the paper newspapers of the previous century, right ?

    For one thing, how did "the paper newspapers of the previous century" solve it? And to what extent would those solutions continue to apply? Individual publishers back then didn't have to compete with interest-based ad networks for advertisers' money.

    1. Re:Print publishers didn't compete with trackers by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Hosting facilities aren't without cost. Amazon charges real money for EC2, S3, and CloudFront.

      I didn't say hosting facilities are without cost. I just said users don't get fuel / packing material / poor man's toilet paper by misusing these services. Any benefit they derive from DOSing the service provider is not real.

      Free internet news service , only subsidized by advertisements is infinitely more viable than free newspapers only subsidized by advertisements in the last century due to these extra motivations to abuse the service.

      For one thing, how did "the paper newspapers of the previous century" solve it? And to what extent would those solutions continue to apply? Individual publishers back then didn't have to compete with interest-based ad networks for advertisers' money.

      This is their problem - the same problem existed in those days and they needed to deal with an order of magnitude lower economic activity than today, so your naming an extra competitor doesn't really mean anything. I never said I had the answers, this is why I am not in an online newspaper business.

      You are naming a problem that always existed and still exists today - somehow gels with the bad reputation millenials get about facing any problem and giving up immediately.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  65. How about the radio? by Still+Having+Fun · · Score: 1

    I listen to the news once or twice a day and sometimes from stations with different political orientations. I actually like my local NPR station best and make a small annual donation to them.