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Bitcoin Nears $17,000 After Climbing About $4,000 in Less Than a Day

Posted by msmash on from the topsy-turvy-world dept.

As economists attempt to make sense of Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency rocketed above $17,000 for the first time moments ago, adding about $4,000 to its price in fewer than 24 hours. Security reporter Brian Krebs tweeted on Thursday, "Closing in on $17k per bitcoin now (mind you, it was almost at $16k less than an hour ago. This is totally fine." Late Wednesday, finance author Ben Carlson wrote: Bitcoin has achieved something I've always wanted to see in the stock mkt - a reverse 1987 (20% gain in a single day)

73 of 464 comments (clear)

  1. More important quote from Krebs by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Rational"? Really? I do not think it means what you think it means.

    1. Re:More important quote from Krebs by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Rational"? Really? I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Every time I look at this chart I think: "Tulip bulbs"... of course there is once again no shortage of people telling me this is completely sustainable and will go on forever.

    2. Re:More important quote from Krebs by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      I'm calling the top at no later than next Sunday evening, possibly sooner. CBOE launches futures, big boys go short, game over. Will be one hell of a ride down, possibly quicker than any major crash in history. Wild swings, too, day traders will make a killing if they're smart. I'm going to get some popcorn.

    3. Re:More important quote from Krebs by Rob+Y. · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This quote says it all:

      Bitcoin has achieved something I've always wanted to see in the stock mkt - a reverse 1987 (20% gain in a single day)

      It's all speculation - driven on by cheerleaders on the sidelines in the financial speculation media business. Kind of like the Trump campaign/presidency is all a substanceless shitshow driven on by cheerleaders in the news shitshow business.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    4. Re:More important quote from Krebs by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "As economists attempt to make sense of Bitcoin"

      I can assure everybody that no true economist is trying to make sense of Bitcoin.

      Bitcoin con only go up for as long as people can manage to max out their credit cards, steal granny's savings, etc., to buy some.

      This is not infinite.

      After that it comes down. Hard. A few people will get very rich, a lot of people will get poor.

      (Remember: Bitcoin only redistributes money, it doesn't ever create anything of tangible value)

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:More important quote from Krebs by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's perfectly possible that the rich people are offering large sums for small quantities of Bitcoin to push up the price then dumping large quantities when everybody sees it.

      (aka: "Pumping and Dumping")

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:More important quote from Krebs by Pascoea · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You mean comparing two things that achieved something nobody thought could or should happen? Seems reasonable to me.

    7. Re:More important quote from Krebs by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I pay ~$14 ($100 HKD) to wire any amount of money, anywhere, and it is guaranteed/confirmed within 1 business day. That's not frictionless? Log in on my phone, enter the amount, enter the recipient's account, and push a button. Done.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:More important quote from Krebs by tattood · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (Remember: Bitcoin only redistributes money, it doesn't ever create anything of tangible value)

      The NYSE and NASDAQ only redistribute money also. Do they not create anything of value?

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    9. Re:More important quote from Krebs by PingPongBoy · · Score: 2

      > use cases

      Use cases are abstract. It's all theory. Who accepts cryptocurrency? The way things are going, who even understands it? Who even bothers? It's just entertainment to hear the numbers.

      Suppose I have a car dealership. Now or soon I can sell a car for the low low price of 1 BTC. In this theoretical world, how do I use the cryptocurrency? What's the economics? People are driven to own cryptocurrency but not to spend it anyways, because it's so deflationary. Today I can buy a car. Tomorrow I can buy a house. The day after it's good for a yacht. But if I have a yacht and you have a bitcoin, you don't get near my yacht until I secure the purchase of something even more valuable, like a fighter jet, for that bitcoin. That way I don't hold the bag. The bitcoin is a medium that deflates a future purchase but it takes a lot of work to eliminate the risk. You would think that having done the work to earn some pocket change, you don't want another full time job just to spend it.

      One day I'll tell the kids they don't know the value of a BTC, the way they scatter them around.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
  2. So... by Kierthos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is going to crash hard, and probably fairly soon, and people will react with "We could not have foreseen this at all!"

    And I will be over here, laughing at them.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    1. Re:So... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      This is going to crash hard, and probably fairly soon, and people will react with "We could not have foreseen this at all!" And I will be over here, laughing at them.

      The Winklevoss twins won't be fooled again!

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:So... by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good introduction:
      https://www.youtube.com/result...

    3. Re:So... by devman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Knowing it will crash, and knowing when it will crash are two very different feats. Saying it will crash is practically axiomatic, and in the mean time if your sitting on the sidelines you may have missed opportunities that may have led to profits even if you held through a crash.

    4. Re:So... by MikeDataLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Every market will crash. Event the best investment will go south if you wait long enough. There are no horse and buggy companies anymore. Eventually grows and then fades.

      The only thing that matters is getting in and out at the right time.

      --
      Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
    5. Re:So... by Kierthos · · Score: 2

      I don't have 17 large handy and free to spend on a cryptocurrency today. I didn't have 12.5 large handy and free yesterday, to buy that same one Bitcoin.

      So, I'm going to sit back and laugh. Because someone out there (likely more than one someone) is gambling foolishly on continued value jumps. Yes, some people stand to make a tidy profit on this. Some people are going to stay on this a little too long. Sure, that's a danger with the stock market too, but the stock market typically does not fluctuate this much. (To this scale, I mean.)

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    6. Re:So... by MrDozR · · Score: 2

      You can buy any fraction of a Bitcoin on most exchanges, you don't have to go all in and buy ONE.

    7. Re:So... by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is that most of us don't have that sort of money sitting around

      1 Bitcoin is internally represented as 100 million basic units (the "Satoshi"). You can buy any number of Satoshis, so it's possible to buy 0.001 coins for instance.

    8. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or bitcoin could go to $1,000,000. I am a financial advisor and given how technologically amazing bitcoin is and how it is the future of all money, I'm betting on it hitting $1,000,000 before the end of 2018 and selling ALL my gold bullion, penny stocks, and tulip futures to put into bitcoin and I am now advising all my clients to do the same.

    9. Re:So... by devman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People said that at 100, and at at 1000. Reality is no one knows where this is going to end up. I could just as easily see it be at 10 or 100,000 by the end of next week.

      If you have a crystal ball, feel free to short BTC right now and make a fortune. My point remains, it is easier to say it will crash than say when it will crash or what fair value is.

    10. Re:So... by devman · · Score: 2

      No one knows what it will crash to though, it could run up to 50k and crash back to 20k, which would be a sizeable crash, but would mean the bubble hasn't actually started yet.

    11. Re:So... by syn3rg · · Score: 3, Funny

      "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
      --Yogi Berra

      --
      The contents of this message have been doubly encrypted by ROT13
    12. Re:So... by ctilsie242 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Regardless of what it goes to, BTC is so unstable that it is less of an investment than a gamble.

      My biggest worry about this hype is that is kills cryptocurrencies completely, if BTC falls over.

      Bitcoin is a "v1.0" currency. The fact that you have to run through 150+ gigs of blockchain transactions, and it can take days to have a transaction succeed is worrisome, and these numbers are not going down. One cannot really use it for microtransactions unless one tacks on an additional percentage to get parties to put the transaction at a higher priority than normal.

    13. Re:So... by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One cannot really use it for microtransactions

      No, not if you want every transaction on-chain. The blockchain is an expensive resource.

      You will be able to do microtransactions on the Lightning Network, where they will be done off-chain, and then only occasionally settled on the chain.

    14. Re: So... by mysidia · · Score: 2

      It doesn't make sense to buy so little that the amount you get is dwarfed by whatever the fees are.
      Minimum buy is a POLICY of whatever service you are using AND your own good sense to
      buy at least enough that you have a useful transaction that the fees aren't a significant fraction of.

    15. Re:So... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 2

      You don't need "that sort" of money. I don't have anywhere near 1 bitcoin, and at this rate probably never will, but what I do have is worth a lot more than when I bought it. Whether that will still be true by the time I get home this evening is anyone's guess. :p

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    16. Re: So... by devman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Incorrect.

      You can literally deposit $170 to GDAX (coinbase) right now (if it were not crashing) and buy 0.01 BTC, there is no minimum to open a trading account on coinbase.

      To trade on equity markets you could go open an account with Fidelity, Schwab, or Robinhood (if app only is your thing) right now with no minimum and go trading to your hearts content.

    17. Re:So... by mysidia · · Score: 2

      as there is no way the true final price after the pop will be anywhere near 17,000.

      Why? The true final price could be 100K. To make such bold claim as 'final' price will not be near 17K,
      you need a prediction. If you have a prediction, then the value of it is based on how well you can explain your prediction based on true info you've analyzed.

    18. Re:So... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2

      It has a Tulip-Bulby feel to it, doesn't it?

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    19. Re:So... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      Except when you look at how it can crash.

      What happens when the value drops x%? Transaction volume goes up. How quickly will those transactions be added to the blockchain? Who controls that process? Currently the blockchain is at just under 500k transactions per day, and appears to have a significant backlog in confirming transactions.

      The hype looks like it is posed to last a bit longer, but some people are really going to get caught with their pants down the way I see it; there is no easy de-escalation strategy.

    20. Re:So... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Funny

      People complain when I mention Tulip Mania, so instead I will tell a joke

      Jeremy Sloan asked his son Michael what he'd like for his upcoming sixth birthday. Michael said he wanted a hamster, so Jeremy visited the local pet shop and found the perfect hamster. The little guy was in the peak of health, so he bought it on the spot. He also bought a cage with a wheel, some food and a water bottle. As he was paying for the birthday present, the store owner said, "Any problems whatsoever, just come back here. I live right above the shop and I'll help you out any time you want."

      Jeremy put the hamster and cage in his car and drove home. He left them in there until his son had gone to bed so that he wouldn't see them when he brought them in. Michael's birthday was the next day, so Jeremy got up early to wrap the presents and to check on the hamster. He was horrified to see the hamster was dead at the bottom of the cage; it's legs stiff in the air. He knew his son would be distraught as the boy had talked about nothing else for weeks. Quickly, Jeremy put on his coat and drove round to the pet shop and knocked on the owner's door. He explained the problem and the owner was quite understanding and gave Jeremy a new hamster, refusing payment for it

      Jeremy asked, "What can I do with the old one? I don't want to bury it as the cat may dig it up and I don't want to throw it away in case my son sees it in the bin"

      The shop owner replied, "What I do is mix up a strong sugar solution - about 1.5 kg of sugar to a litre of water. Bring that to a boil and then add the hamster. Simmer it about two hours, stirring periodically. It makes quite a nice jam."

      Jeremy looked a little bewildered, but says thank you and raced back home. He gave the new hamster to Michael who was absolutely thrilled with it. He dashed off to play with it the rest of the day. Jeremy decided it was a good time to get rid of the dead hamster, so he tries the pet shop owner's recipe. He finds the sugar in the pantry and brings the water to a boil. After a couple hours, the mixture has become jam-like so Jeremy takes a spoonful, blows on it till it's cooler, and tastes it. It's absolutely disgusting. He's so revolted that he throws the rest of it out the kitchen window, into the flower bed below

      A couple days later, Jeremy noticed that daffodils were springing up under his kitchen window, right where he tossed that awful concoction. "That's odd", he thinks to himself, "I've never had daffodils before"

      Next day, his son asks him to take him to the pet shop to get some more food for his hamster. So Jeremy and Michael go to the store, and while Michael is looking at new hamster toys, the owner asks Jeremy, "Did you try that recipe I gave you?"

      "Yes, but it tasted so awful that I threw it out the window. Odd thing is, I've got daffodils springing up there now."

      "Daffodils?" asked the store owner, "Are you sure? You usually get tulips from hamster jam.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    21. Re:So... by devman · · Score: 2

      Exchange transactions occur off chain. Only when you take BTC off the exchange does go to the block chain for recording.

    22. Re:So... by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      My biggest worry about this hype is that is kills cryptocurrencies completely, if BTC falls over.

      maybe you haven't noticed, but the OPPOSITE is happening.

      because it hasn't fallen over yet. Duh.

    23. Re:So... by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      Unless you have a very high risk tolerance (by which I mean that you could afford to lose the money), I would say that your investor gave you very good advice.

    24. Re: So... by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 2

      But even so. Why would a drug supplier accept something that cannot be used in any material way and is not backed by any strong entity as a payment for it's supply?

      It's not like the dollars have disappeared from the market...

      Even if they need to clean the money, they don't need to make the transaction with bitcoins, they can just buy them and then sell them at the same second.

      And it's not like they don't have other, more stable, crypto currency around..

    25. Re: So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      You are wholly wrong. Theres a minimum you need to purchase to not get fucked in processing/transaction fees unless you feel like waiting forever.

    26. Re:So... by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      that would be approximately $1.3mil now.. if I could unload them.

      That's not a big problem. There's about $2 billion worth of bitcoin traded in a day. Your $1.3 million could be sold over a few hours without causing a crash.

    27. Re:So... by nine-times · · Score: 2

      In abstract, sure, but that's an oversimplification. It's like if people were talking about the dangers of heroin use, and you said, "Well it's not really bad for you since we all die eventually."

    28. Re:So... by devman · · Score: 2

      There is $1.3MM in buyer liquidity in the top $200 of the order book right now on GDAX and that is one exchange.

      Translating the above, you could put a market order to sell $1.3MM all in one go and it would only move the market ~$200 down from where it is now.

    29. Re:So... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      Sure, because the exchanges have proven so secure. And if you're going to just bank through a processor, why not just use VISA or Mastercard?

      The OP is correct: bitcoin is an interesting experiment. We might end up using blockchain currencies, but bitcoin has some fundamental problems that are going to have to be resolved.

  3. IRS/Secret Service Crackdown by Shogun37 · · Score: 2

    In 3...2...1. Then, watch the currency go into free fall.

    1. Re:IRS/Secret Service Crackdown by olsmeister · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They are (or maybe already have) going to allow trading of Bitcoin futures. If you strongly feel it is destined to crash, you can make a lot of money here.

    2. Re:IRS/Secret Service Crackdown by grnbrg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would the IRS care, as long as you are following the rules?

      If anyone thinks they are going to make their Bitcoin millions and not pay the government their cut, they're an idiot.

    3. Re:IRS/Secret Service Crackdown by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe NASDAQ plans on introducing trading on Bitcoin futures in the first half of 2018. That's assuming that Bitcoin doesn't crash and burn before then.

      The crash is not scheduled until after the put options are in place. :-)

    4. Re:IRS/Secret Service Crackdown by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it crashes before then, buy in at the crash price... Being traded on NASDAQ will add legitimacy to bitcoin and likely cause another bubble.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  4. Investment advice by xavdeman · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm buying popcorn stocks. Everybody's going to want to grab some when Bitcoin crashes.

  5. So I am going in now by houghi · · Score: 5, Funny

    As the increase is exponential, the moment I am going in is now. Just put all my belongings into it as well as maxed out my cards and took several loans. This is my ticked to become rich.

    With my calculations it will reach 150.000USD in two weeks. There is no way I can lose money. Right?

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:So I am going in now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your scenario is unlikely, but possible. It would not surprise me if you were destitute in two weeks, and it would not surprise me that you are going to wish you actually did this. It would surprise me if nothing happened at all though.

    2. Re:So I am going in now by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      I'm sitting here at the sidelines. In my own house. That still will be mine tomorrow.

      And then I'm gonna take a loan and buy his.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Steam no longer accepts them by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 3, Informative

    it seems the expense of transactions is making them useless for their actual purpose. for the hundredth time I'm declaring that the end is nigh :)

    --
    This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
    1. Re:Steam no longer accepts them by Kierthos · · Score: 2

      Well, yeah. I mean, according to https://www.coindesk.com/price/ it's gained over $2000 in value today. But it could just as easily drop $2000 in value tomorrow.

      When it fluctuates that much in the short term, there's much less incentive for businesses to use it.

      "Oh, I accepted this fraction of a Bitcoin as payment, but it just dropped so much that I lost money."

      - or for the holders of Bitcoins -

      "Oh, I just spent that fraction of a Bitcoin as a payment for this product, but it just jumped so much that I effectively overpaid for the product."

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    2. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by reanjr · · Score: 2

      Yesterday, we saw the first successful test of the Lightning network built on top of Bitcoin. This layer largely addresses the transaction price and scaling issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the news that kicked off this rally acceleration.

    3. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by reanjr · · Score: 2

      No there isn't. Businesses mostly use payment gateways that sell the BTC immediately. There's no risk of price fluctuation to the business.

    4. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by Luthair · · Score: 2

      Classic part of a bubble is people fearing they missed out and buying high.

    5. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Valve cited this yesterday as the reason they are no longer accepting Bitcoins as a payment option.

      "As of today, Steam will no longer support Bitcoin as a payment method on our platform due to high fees and volatility in the value of Bitcoin."

      http://steamcommunity.com/game...

      --
      Good-bye
    6. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

      >. Businesses mostly use payment gateways that sell the BTC immediately

      The last time I saw this model, it was where you'd give USD to a gateway and get a credit measured in Bitcoin at the current exchange rate. Then you'd find an online store to buy something, also measured in Bitcoin (though really a USD amount converted using the current exchange rate). Then the gateway would pay the online store in USD.

      So you give USD to someone who gives USD to someone, but you PRETEND that you're using Bitcoin. And the middleman takes a cut for the service, either using the exchange rate or (thanks to Bitcoin's volatility) by delaying or retroactively processing the exchanges to make them more favourable.

      So... a credit card company, only without the credit, regulation, purchase protection, or wide acceptance. But much faster than actually using Bitcoin, since the vendor and the payment company can settle up instantly instead of taking 10 minutes to never.

    7. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      In the sense of "They're not going to not get their money's worth", you're correct that there's no risk. Steam are reporting, however, that the fluctuations are causing direct problems in terms of clawing back the right amount from customers:

      Historically, the value of Bitcoin has been volatile, but the degree of volatility has become extreme in the last few months, losing as much as 25% in value over a period of days. This creates a problem for customers trying to purchase games with Bitcoin. When checking out on Steam, a customer will transfer x amount of Bitcoin for the cost of the game, plus y amount of Bitcoin to cover the transaction fee charged by the Bitcoin network. The value of Bitcoin is only guaranteed for a certain period of time so if the transaction doesnâ(TM)t complete within that window of time, then the amount of Bitcoin needed to cover the transaction can change. The amount it can change has been increasing recently to a point where it can be significantly different.

      The normal resolution for this is to either refund the original payment to the user, or ask the user to transfer additional funds to cover the remaining balance. In both these cases, the user is hit with the Bitcoin network transaction fee again. This year, weâ(TM)ve seen increasing number of customers get into this state. With the transaction fee being so high right now, it is not feasible to refund or ask the customer to transfer the missing balance (which itself runs the risk of underpayment again, depending on how much the value of Bitcoin changes while the Bitcoin network processes the additional transfer).

      So, customers are getting routinely (unintentionally) ripped off, given one price, then forced to either pay a higher price, or accept less money back than they originally paid.

      That is overall a risk to the business, as that directly damages the business's reputation and the degree to which anyone wants to do business with them.

      The system is failing. And the BTC advocates are so enthusiastic about the gains they made by treating BTC as an investment vehicle that they aren't addressing the fact it's completely failing as a currency. And, you know, it's going to fail as an investment vehicle too if it has no legitimate use.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    8. Re: Steam no longer accepts them by Luthair · · Score: 2

      Yea, I've known about bitcoin about 7-years and considered it bullshit the entire time, so I know even had I bothered to use PCs to mine when it was easy I would have sold it all years ago.

  7. Idiot commentator by sjbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Late Wednesday, finance author Ben Carlson wrote:
    Bitcoin has achieved something I've always wanted to see in the stock mkt - a reverse 1987 (20% gain in a single day)

    Whoever wrote that is an idiot. No we do not want to see that kind of volatility in the market, positive or negative. That is NOT a good thing. Any time something skyrockets that fast in price it is pretty much invariably because something weapons grade irrational and/or criminal is going on. This is what happens with pump and dump schemes and those rarely end happily.

    1. Re:Idiot commentator by e4liberty · · Score: 3, Informative
      BTW, to reverse a 20% loss you need a 25% gain. That's volatility!

      (x * 0.8) * 1.25 == x

  8. Re:Usefulness of Bitcoin? by kelarius · · Score: 2

    You have to use an exchange like Coinbank or Bitfinex, they'll take your bitcoins and offer you whatever other currency. Thing is that these exchanges often have restrictions on when, how often, and how much you can exchange, often they have queues that you have to wait in to actually exchange your currency. If you're a new user, you can usually expect to wait a while to drop your bitcoin for some other currency, and you can usually expect to have a limit on the amount you're allowed to convert. The exchanges do this to help prevent a crash via a flash selloff, and to some extent it's successful, however eventually consumer faith in the future of the value on Bitcoin is going to drop off (I mean really, $17k?) and when that happens those same protections are going to make the crash all that much worse for people involved.

    --
    Personally I'd rather have my idiots at home glued to the TV than out doing idiotic things
  9. Tulips baby. by darthsilun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana

    1. Re:Tulips baby. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And those who can remember the past are condemned to watch everyone else repeat it!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  10. Re:Economists "attempt to make sense out of" by Xylantiel · · Score: 2

    Economists don't need to "make sense" of it, they are perfectly familiar with asset bubbles.

  11. Re:FTW!! by omnichad · · Score: 2

    Any Bitcoin exchange that's still running. Once the crash starts, they will likely shut down very quickly - because they would have to buy BTC that will be worthless by the time they can move it.

  12. Assets and secondary markets by sjbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why ? Bitcoin is not a stock, and the Bitcoin exchanges don't function like stock markets.

    If you are buying bitcoin hoping it will appreciate in value relative to the dollar then it is a secondary market and as such it functions almost identically to a stock market as a practical matter. Bitcoin is just an asset like gold or beenie babies or pork bellies or frozen concentrated orange juice. Any discussion about the "value" of bitcoin is by definition in relation to how many dollars you can get for it which is no different than asking what the current price of a stock is in dollars. Stocks are assets and so is bitcoin.

  13. Dutch Tulip Mania by supercell · · Score: 2

    This is the Dutch Tulip Mania Bubble all over again. No question. http://www.thebubblebubble.com...

  14. What don't people understand? by BlueCoder · · Score: 2

    There is no basis for the inflated price. It's like junk bonds now; no rational thinking. I wouldn't be surprised if a government was behind it. The price will obvious self destruct and go down below market at witch time I probably will buy some for shits and giggles. I wouldn't be surprised if it went down to $200 per coin. The true value of bitcoin is in the number of people that hold onto them and won't sell them.

  15. Re:FTW!! by omnichad · · Score: 2

    Can you just read the reply to the other person who already asked the same question? The answer is the same. The exchanges will shut down due to a lack of buyers.

  16. I just cashed in by dhaen · · Score: 2

    I had some residual left in Bitcoin from early 2016 (note I use the singular). I'd forgotten about this until the recent boom publicity and realised that just like Tulip Fever, it is based on nothing and may not climb much further. Anyway, I'm a happy bunny with the payout (x34). It will probably climb a bit further but many will lose in the crash.

  17. Short? by trevc · · Score: 2

    Is it possible to short bitcoin so I can make money when it does crash?

    1. Re:Short? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      It will be soon, but you don't want to. Remember the saying...the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Even if BTC drops to $1 next December, between now and then it could go to $50k, $100k, or possibly even higher. Nobody will let you short it that long unless you've got massive capital to back your position. So what will happen is you will get margin called and forced to liquidate your assets and give up your position and then miss out on the eventual crash.

      Getting rich shorting bitcoin is a nice thing to think about, but a terribly risky thing to actually do.

  18. What is the intrinsic value of bitcoin? by sizzzzlerz · · Score: 2

    Companies typically have tangible assests and sales to support their stock prices. What is supporting bitcoin's valuation. I suppose one could argue that it's price is whatever somebody is willing to pay for it but that seems awfully close to being a Ponzi scheme. This feels like the dot com bubble that blew up at the beginning of the century when internet companies had ridiculously high prices without having any sales. Pets.com anyone?