Slashdot Mirror
Exhausted Amazon Drivers Are Working 11-Hour Shifts For Less Than Minimum Wage (mirror.co.uk)
schwit1 quotes the Daily Mirror:
Drivers are being asked to deliver up to 200 parcels a day for Amazon while earning less than the minimum wage, a Sunday Mirror investigation reveals today... Many routinely exceed the legal maximum shift of 11 hours and finish their days dead on their feet. Yet they have so little time for food or toilet stops they snatch hurried meals on the run and urinate into plastic bottles they keep in their vans. They say they often break speed limits to meet targets that take no account of delays such as ice, traffic jams or road closures.
Many claim they are employed in a way that means they have no rights to holiday or sickness pay. And some say they take home as little as £160 for a five-day week amid conditions described by one lawyer as "almost Dickensian"... The Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency has vowed to investigate after drivers contacted them to complain about conditions.
Many claim they are employed in a way that means they have no rights to holiday or sickness pay. And some say they take home as little as £160 for a five-day week amid conditions described by one lawyer as "almost Dickensian"... The Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency has vowed to investigate after drivers contacted them to complain about conditions.
Something you will never hear an American ask themselves.
Generally speaking, when you are buying so much "shit" for so much cheaper than the rest of the world, there is a good chance that this is only possible because a lot of people down the line are being fucked.
But hey... cheap tv for you so who give a fuck, am i right?
I have stopped using Amazon for a few years now. Probably do fuck all but it makes me feel better :D
Another dipshit who didn't read the summary, let alone the article. It's about Great Britain...asshole
These people are obviously desperate for a job for some reason. Don't pretend like anyone can be a candidate for any job that is available. It doesn't mean they should have to starve, or conmit crimes to make christmas bearable.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
11 hour days for sub-minimum wage is your future too, tech chuds.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Go back from whatever rock you climbed out of. We do not need more trolls here.
If you want your damn parcels delivered, the person delivering them must get a decent wage. Anything else is bullshit.
Otherwise we can slash your salary too, whatever you are doing isn't meant do pay a living wage either.
11 hour days? Holy first world problems.
Not to say this report isn't important or that Amazon shouldn't do better, but wow is the first world out of touch.
Nope.
Time is money.
s/asshole/arsehole/g
> Many claim they are employed in a way that means they have no rights to holiday or sickness pay.
Maybe they should go on strike? Oh no wait, Amazon found a way around that pesky annoyance: they'll just ship orders from an Amazon warehouse in another EU country.
Britain also has fairly low unemployment, lower infact (according to google US is 4.3% and uk is at 4.2%), and the uk has a much more generous welfare system for those who don't want to work.
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I don't believe either of them
This is simply not true, many people are attempting to live on these wages. If a business cannot afford to employ people for a living wage then the business is not viable.
By pushing down wages, it stops businesses that can pay a living wage from competing.
Noting that Charles Dickens' works were often so long because he usually got paid by the word. (My wife was an English teacher.)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
It's about Great Britain...asshole
As if anyone cares about The Great Police State...
Holiday season isn't year round... So they have a three or four busy weeks? Suck it up.
That's their own fault. If they were awesome like cayenne8 or superkendall they could have any job they want. I'm so great that people pay ME to let them work for me on my POS/ERP system which is so awesome nobody's ever heard of it.
--
roman_muh
... if you go on a shooting rampage - which I would totally get btw. - please be so kind and kill the right people.
That aside: A job this grueling you might want to quit.
Just sayin'.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Bad job?
Quit.
Can't find another job?
Protest.
Protest doesn't work?
Go to war.
This is how things have always worked before, why shouldn't this work now?
My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
You don't get to pull definitions out of your ass.
It's a viable business. Their employee's lives my not be viable, but that's their own fault. Their purpose is to serve as a warning to the next generation. Don't make the choices they made.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I don't want to work.
I know. But what do you propose I do about it? We couldn't even keep Trump out of the Whitehouse. His tax plan is going to f'n kill me (kid in college and I'm in a state with SALT). I'm getting the shit kicked out of me. So are a lot of working class Americans. And all I hear from anyone else ever is: "Why don't you go back to school and update your skills?". Like that's so damn easy.
America abandoned it's working class. Do you really think they care about the rest of the world that abandoned them?
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US unemployment rate is 4.1%.
side stepping minimum wage laws. Thing is, I'm guessing 99% of /.ers aren't in a position to worry about this. What we _are_ in a position to worry about is how 40 years of stagnant wages mean it's harder and harder for us to make ends meet. So we'll turn a blind eye. Thing is this will come around to bite us eventually, but when you're barely hanging on eventually doesn't really matter. Me? I'm just trying to get my kid through college and to hell with everything else. And that about sums it up. The working class is too busy surviving to band together and make a positive change. It's almost as if somebody designed it that way...
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driverless cars actually become a thing, this will become a non-issue.
It will go from minimum-wage to no wage.
Though I suppose they'll still need someone to actually move package from delivery vehicle to home.
Unless they're gonna install a vehicle mounted trebuchet.
The reason americans have become so complacent about getting shit cheap even if somebody else is getting fucked is because usually said people have been/still are being fucked themselves, and without a better company that is ACTUALLY AND VERIFIABLY BETTER, paying more just means being a bigger sucker and not necessarily helping improve the status quo.
America continues sliding further down the shitter because there *IS NO TRANSPARENCY* making the sort of informed decisions that would allow capitalism to work and be beneficial to all, impossible to achieve.
Capitalism only works with perfect information symmetry, the same as the necessary government transparency (including intelligence agencies!) to make democracy work. You can remain opaque for a short while when a specific operation, or external threat renders it necessary, but the longer you allow it to happen the more out of control the powers and abilities of the 'black box' will get, same as DRM, same as undisclosed government contracts, same as 'casting couch' activities.
Information asymmetry is the biggest threat to every aspect of the world (dis)order, and only by providing symmetry can the common folk make informed decisions that will allow them to wrest control back from the wealthy/politically connected few, the indignantly proud, the obscenely corrupt.
captcha was 'leftward', why yes it is... under some definitions of 'left'.
If you don't make yourself available for work, and demonstrate attempts to work then you are likely to get your benefits stopped in the UK. Benefits, even if you are, and among the least generous in Europe.
What are you talking about? Yes we have a surveillance problem, but our police don't go round killing civilians on a whim.
Do you honestly think Amazon can meet their delivery targets with a modest pool of part timers?
Also
> it's something women
What the fuck is this, 1930?
But Bezos is a democrat... you know... that party that is all about the people.
for much of my adult life, I have no sympathy. I'm working several hours more than than that seven days a week. Most of my friends in tech are too.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's really staggering that anyone is surprised that a corporation like Amazon wouldn't abuse its workers for profit.
Don't forget, they own the Washington Post as well.
So delivering parcels was always intended to be in violation of the law? Because minors aren't allowed to be delivery drivers.
So they should either commit crimes or die? Or maybe you're in favor of more and more people pulling from welfare.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
OP is correct. if the business isn't able to pay enough to keep it's employees in food, clothing, shelter, etc, then it is not a viable business. If it CAN but won't then it is a leech on society.
It also matters how unemployment is counted. In the US the number is severely skewed in favor of those in office. Those who sign up for such jobs typically have not much else to chose from. More opportunity comes from more education and that is in most places getting prohibitively expensive. As far as the UK goes, once they brexited and the economy tanks worse than during Thatcher's time the number of people who can afford ordering crap on Amazon will go down drastically.
I'll start having feels for Amazon drivers when they stop throwing my packages onto my porch from the driveway. And yes, I sent the videos to Amazon not that they care either.
Jean Charles de Menezes might have disagreed with that statement. Better than the United States, but not good enough to brag about.
Sacrifices have to be made in order to pay for the next royal wedding. And then in a couple of years the next royal divorce.
As long as I have 2nd day delivery on the plastic Chinese tchotchkes which I ordered, Im a happy camper.
Bitching about long hours as a delivery driver? You probably shouldn't have partied so hard with the frat boys, huh?
These people are obviously desperate for a job for some reason. Don't pretend like anyone can be a candidate for any job that is available. It doesn't mean they should have to starve, or conmit crimes to make christmas bearable.
Yeah, because driving around delivering packages is such a brutal job. GMAFB.
Jean Charles de Menezes might have disagreed with that statement. Better than the United States, but not good enough to brag about.
Yeah, that was pretty a pretty pathetic event, but is that the only one you can recall or find? And that was - how long ago? Compare that to just the second half of this year in the US...
Mind you (I'm from Australia) the Victorian Police seemed to be taking a shot (poor-taste pun) at the title a little while back.
Teenager = 18. 18 != miner.
You = idiot.
Any job in which you make less than you need to live is brutal.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The Mirror recently did a similar story on Amazon warehouse employees being abused as they put it. Although mention nothing about any labor violations or that people are really doing anything more then a hard day of manual labor which obviously with lower education or a person needing a job would gladly take. I have no doubt Amazon does not pay very well for any of these positions including warehouse workers, delivery people or even air plane pilots who have also complained. But what really did anyone expect? If you donâ(TM)t like it, go find another job.
she took them for granted. Given Trump's very highly publicized flaws (p****ygate, his rambling speeches, his decades of poor business decisions) she assumed nobody in their right mind would vote for him. Hence the 'Deplorables' line. What she failed to account for is that people _want_ economic populism. They _want_ the government to take action to better their lives. Trump promised all that (even as he ran with a party who's central plank is laissez faire capitalism).
And no, that is not me. I'm a Democratic Socialist. A Bernie Bro. A Justice Democrat. All members of the working class are welcome in my tent. The aristocracy can enter too, but with some caveats. Mainly that we stop bending society to satisfy their extravagant whims and desires.
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Itâ(TM)s low skill work, nobody makes big wages anymore doing a job almost anyone with a GED or high school education can do. Sadly the unemployment for low skill is high in the UK and so Amazon takes advantage of this. Not like WalMart is doing any better, or that Amazon in the US pays warehouse people better. Yes, its probably not a good livable wage but again, get a good education, develop a skill and avoid this trap of not being a valuable person to an employer.
Upon looking, I see that Amazon requires it's drivers to be 21 or older. What was that about being for teens to make extra money again?
They could kick it up a notch like everyone else in the world does when it's crunch time. Everyone works longer hours this time of year (except the desk jockeys raping their coworkers at the company christmas party)
Any job in which you make less than you need to live is brutal.
So why do people voluntarily take some jobs to make extra cash even though they can live without it? Why do teenagers work jobs even though their parents can afford to pay for their needs?
not the cause. The cause is 40 years of stagnant wages as all the gains from decades of increased productivity go to the top 1%.
The working class actually tried to organize. Remember Occupy WallStreet? It was shut down by a coordinated effort of the FBI and local police using legal tools put in place by the Patriot Act that everybody pinkie swore would never be used against American Citizens.
What gets my goat is the same folks who keep putting these jokers in power yell the loudest about government overreach except when it screws with somebody they don't like. Whether it's liberal elites, Muslims, college students or just plain whatever racial background they don't like. It's all a scam. It's how the Aristocracy has maintained power for centuries: get the working class to blame their plight on somebody else (Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Mongolians, the Untouchable class, whatever) while they laugh all the way to the bank. Works too.
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That has to be the weakest come back ever. It only makes you look stupid and petty in addition to simply wrong.
0.0% since 4 percent means 4 in 100 people can't find work already. What do you suppose will happen to the numbers if everyone who has a less than ideal job quits and refuses to take any less than ideal jobs? You don't seem to realize that most people would rather have a great job, but have to decide if they want to be able to survive and feed themselves and their family or try to live in a perfect world with the perfect job.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Mom I need money for more booze and weed usually gets a "no".
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Bezos > Trump
you just gobble up that geek cock don't you - gobble gobble
That's not even the half of it.
Mind your head, replacement shovel coming down.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
'Cuz you're doing it wrong - it's hookers and blow.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Just be wealthy, and that won't be a problem.
... after the holidays.
The Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency has vowed to investigate after drivers contacted them to complain about conditions.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
He's such a noob.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
The history of the trade Unions in the US starts with Train Unions. And those formed not to demand higher pay but to demand better working conditions, less overwork and gaurenteed return to home after days traveling far from home. Removal of bars in company towns was another demand (train workers were often left to rot in Railtoad owned hotels (bunkhouses) far from home until such a time as they were needed. They had to pay the hotel cost to the owners and they were in the middle of no where so the only thing to do was drink. Which created alcoholics other railroaders were afraid to work with.
THey need a union. that's what unions are for.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
What is the underlying reason for this happening?
Or - is it required to obtain certain goals and what would they be?
Who benefits from it and why are other's paying with their health and well-being?
Reminds me of certain animal species where dominant males kill offspring fathered by other males....
Maybe there is or has been an advantage in evolution for that, but what is the advantage now.
Nothing exists in human behavior without advantage, being it real or imaginary fantasy - i. e. mindfuck.
They use their own cars too
The working class actually tried to organize. Remember Occupy WallStreet?
You mean that collection of dopers and criminals that didn't have jobs and just wanted the banks to give them free money? What definition of "working class" are you using, when the working class was working while those idiots were protesting?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Pretty much describes the Amazon model.
See here.. The difference is what you were doing was always recognized as illegal but the law was not being enforced. What Uber's doing is generally being recognized as legal.
And you should have been outraged. You were being exploited. Just because there is a time in your life when you were no longer being exploited doesn't mean you weren't. I see this periodically, where people wonder why we need all these regulations, laws and rules when the problems they're supposed to solve are gone. What this usually means is either a) the problem doesn't affect me anymore so I don't see why it's a problem (your case) or worse b) the regulations and laws prevent the problem from happening and people can't understand that without those laws the problem would come back...
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No. women weren't allowed to work in manual labor until the Second World War took all the men away. So, 1940s.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Going through rush hour traffic every single day, dealing with road rage, near-misses, all the time with an unforgiving schedule that doesn't let you deliver just 180 parcels that day.
For less than minimum wage.
Yeah, that does fit the definition of a brutal job.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Just yesterday I encountered a semi-old couple who were perfectly happy working out of an RV doing seasonal deliveries for Amazon and giving Uber rides as a fill-in.
just wait for a bad crash with maybe some deaths and what will take a few $1M pay outs may hurt amazons bank account
It doesn't work that way. It can't go to zero as unemployment includes people who voluntarily quit their job to move, look for a new job, etc. Unemployment is currently lower than what economists once predicted was the lowest it could possibly go. One reason it might be so low is because employed people are lining up their new job before quitting their old job. Also, unemployment doesn't include the underemployed or the people not looking for work. i.e. The people who have given up searching.
forced to take the gps routes? black cabs are better with maps in there heads.
Let's see that app pass the knowledge test
I dream of a society where ever teenager can buy hookers and blow with their own money without asking for mom or dad to raise their allowance!
miner != minor
pot = kettle
Minors not miners.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
What needs to change is not the unemployment rate, it is the wage rate. There's no point in leaving a $10/hr job for another $10/hr job, and that's the sort that's being created now.
After the tax cut, the corporate taxes will be 20% instead of 35%, and corps will be able to make money in the USA, instead of sending the manufacturing to Mexico, Canada, Korea, Japan, and anywhere-but-here. Then the $10 / hr Walmart or McDonald's guy is going to hear some big-business guy say, "$10/hr? Piffle? Wanna make some real money? We're starting at $15/hr, and just complete this 2 year training, and you'll be making $30" and that will be how wages go up.
The McD's and the Walmarts are going to have to boost their $10/hr to $20/hr and attract those for which the smell of hot oil and metal shaving is a turn-off, and they'll accept $10 / hr less than the factories, but overall, the labor rate is going to go up. It may be a while - the manufacturing plants are going to have to be built (although the CONSTRUCTION companies for those are going to be paying good money too) and the economy is going to have start making a much greater portion of the world's goods, but eventually the factories and the Walmarts and the McD's will have sucked as many people off their couches and out from behind their soap operas so that... there's fewer and fewer people left to hire. But the demand for labor will continue to rise, there will be a labor shortage, and then watch wages sprout rocket engines.
All this would happen much faster with the Fairtax, but this 20% rate is a great start.
At least you lead in acid attacks! Thatâ(TM)s something to be proud of, right?
...for those who don't want to work.
Buddy you should brush up on your rhetoric figures of speech and avoid alienation of readers.
I work very hard and I am being well paid and I should agree with you and join you in your rant against unwilling freeloaders. But I don't. I find your writing unnecessary hurtful.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
You know, when you to assemble something, and you have a few pieces (like screws) left over, it's not that you're a genius, and those parts were unnecessary (usually).
I imagine something similar with the employment issue...chronic unemployment issues speaks of a bigger problem, perhaps of some people with an obtuse vision of how things ought to be.
We are all working 60-70 hour weeks (70 hours is our DOT limit, btw) Monday-Saturday. Just for reference, but we certainly are getting paid well to do it
Stop blaming Trump for everything.
He wasn't in the picture.
Keep losing elections.
Delusions of grandeur much?
Sending manufacturing to Japan or Korea??? Are you an idiot???
i don't think it's desperation. It's the classic rule that the people who put the least effort into getting their jobs are the people who will work the hardest for the least amount of compensation.
McDonalds for example hires most of their employees by posting a sign on the door saying "no hiring" at which point you see the people behind the counter and see the standards for what they'll hire are about the same as you are...and you fill out an application and unless $20 background search on you turns up something awful, it's time to start training you. Then they'll work you to death, see you as easily replaceable and for the most part would prefer you don't make it through a trial phase as then you might be difficult to fire.
Consider the classic case of the "job creation economy". People voted for Trump and many other politicians over the promises of jobs. I've never ever taken a job which was created as a political promise and in most cases could not be tracked back to government stimulus. But there are a massive number of jobs which exist to deliver jobs to the people. Most people have classically been against immigrant workers because they believe their jobs are being taken by people flooding in to steel them. But those jobs are generally taken by people who actively apply for them.
Automotive, manufacturing, coal, gas, etc... even building space craft and airplanes at Lockheed and co... are all jobs which were created to advertise to the people in one area or another that all they really need to do is show up and they'll have a job.
Most people of the world do not know how to look for jobs. Many people simply don't realize that the jobs are there if they want them or ask the right way. If you want a job and you have an interest in doing something, more often than not, you can find someone to pay you for it. There's also the issue of wanted advertisements in the newspaper (or wherever else). They are almost always written in a concise fashion which scares away 99% of their qualified candidates. You can't just write "We're willing to pay good money for honest people willing to work hard... call 555-1234". They list educational requirements and all kinds of other crap... when they really just need people. But by making it too professional, people will end up working for $5 an hour while sweating the entire time and risking death on greasy floors while paying for expensive work clothes and shoes because someone else was smart enough to keep it simple and write "Help wanted" on a sign.
Most people want to work. If for no other reason but it allows them to have more to their life than just what is on the couch and on the TV. It provides them with a social experience. They don't however want to look for work.
What is worse is that it's clear that Amazon apparently believed they were paying a company enough money to provide these people a good living and making it worth it to them to work hard. Instead, that company was placing their employees in a scenario nearing indentured servitude. They were even charging the guys for the car rental and the fuel.
Amazon should be held accountable for not performing research into their associate companies. They need to ensure they only work with companies who actually are treating their employees at least reasonably. On the other hand, they can't possibly be expected to run their own delivery companies for every single little village out there. It's better to try and find honest people who are willing to hire and manage good people. This makes it so that everyone benefits. If Amazon managed the drivers themselves, those drivers would just be another number in a database. By using courier companies, there is a good chance the owner of the company will take a personal interest in the welfare of his employees.
You should seriously try it.
I haven't, but I've laid bricks, shoveled ditches, built circuit boards, etc... I even held a "Slow/Stop" sign for 10 hours in Florida summer heat at a construction site.
I think it taught me a few important things in life. And I never did those things for more then a few days each. I did learn to respect the people around me. I also learned that what was easy for me wasn't always easy for other people.
As for the driving and delivering packages.... you'd be absolutely shocked how much work that really is.
Probably Chinese.
Occupy WallStreet? The organization created by communists in Canada in order to try and push communist controls. Yeah everyone remembers them.
Om, nomnomnom...
The McD's and the Walmarts are going to have to boost their $10/hr to $20/hr and attract those for which the smell of hot oil and metal shaving is a turn-off
Can tell you're pretty messed up already. Those are the two greatest smells in the world, right beside the smell of heavy axle grease and the "almond" smell of CO from a properly running car.
Go work a trade.
Om, nomnomnom...
If by 'much more generous' you mean you won't have to starve, and you'll have a roof over your head, that's probably true.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
More news at eleven. Seriously, just stop buying their crap.
That is such an American viewpoint you have there.
Women were working in manual labour long before the 1940s.
Happened a long time ago when US manufacturers closed plant after plant, and those plant's outputs were replaced by foreign cars from Japan and Korea. Not exactly "sending" the factories to Japan or Korea, but essentially works the same. If a US company is driven out of business by lower-taxed foreign manufacturers, and the demand for product replaced by product made somewhere besides the USA, its the same thing as "sending" that manufacturing out of the country.
Yeah, you just keep applying for work you know you're never going to get if you don't really want to work. But its been easier the last few decades as there really hasn't been any work to find. They don't force you out of your labor category - they don't make lab technicians apply for heavy equipment operator jobs - so if there are no lab tech jobs, there are no lab tech jobs in spite of the construction of the new interstate highway exchange going on within sight of the unemployment office.
And when the unemployment reaches its time limit, you get booted off. Get a job or starve. Well, the OTHER dodge is the welfare system, and particularly there is the "disability" social security benefit that allows people to basically go on public assistance forever, because they supposedly have a bad back or somesuch. Some of these people eventually get noticed in Facebook videos the like cutting a mean rug at a dance, and their medical disqualification from working gets disqualified.
Its not that they are all lazy, either, its just that they really can't find work, or the "work" is idiotically low-pay. I mean, if you can make $X in a disability benefits scam, but can find jobs that only pay 85% of X, why bother? Getting the wages boosted so that the job is paying $1.2X is what we need, and the lower taxes that bring back manufacturing to the USA is one of the best ways to do it.
You're worrying about hurting the feelings of the lazy who instead choose to effectively steal from the public to live while contributing nothing? Bless your heart...
Drivers can't blame Amazon because they break the law by exceeding speed limits and work over a legal work shift. Discuss with HR, if you get fired form a class-action lawsuit and go work for Uber or Lyft and stop whining.
I had flunked out of college for being flaky and immature, and not going to class. I spent a few summers working 80+ hour weeks working at an amusement park as a garbage collector. My work ethic was terrible, my attitude was not professional, and I had no other employable skills. The awful job was the result of my apathy and poor decisions. I eventually matured, went back to school, and pursued a career. I wouldn't want to work at the amusement park again, but honestly, if that opportunity didn't exist, I would have been worse off. I'd imagine that is the case for a lot of other workers in these dead end jobs.
It depends on the economy. If things are great (from a wider perspective than that of just the 1%), nobody would take these jobs and conditions would improve (or the problem would be avoided).
If you have a large enough bunch of people desperate for money, though, suddenly they don't really have much choice but to be exploited.
We have laws about such things because history shows us enough rich people are OK with defacto slavery that if you let them, they'll enslave everyone they can.
Nah even here in Sweden you need to apply to all availible jobbs or you get silch. Also the rules got updated so you need to apply for everything over the whole country.
The result is that companies dont tell the jobb office when they have availble positions becus they get overrun by under qualified People.
Now they use private headhunting firms instead.
"People" aren't exactly smart and may not have many options.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. Maybe they should have applied themselves in the past so they could have a better job in the present.
It's a worldwide problem - http://www.asti.org.uk/a-world... - but yeah, the UK has a problem along with stabbings as firearms aren't widely available.
What are you talking about? Yes we have a surveillance problem, but our police don't go round killing civilians on a whim.
You forgot:
Get stabbed in the street by muslem problem
Get arrested and prosecuted for saying slightly hateful things on facebook problem
Get raped problem
"Explosions are part and parcel of living in a large city" problem
I worked as a teenager (eons ago). My parents were not in a financial situation to be able to simply provide me with a vehicle when I graduated high school, which is necessary when one lives outside the city or in a city with horrible public transportation (I carpooled with someone else that worked there). I got a used Fairmount and rebuilt the transmission: it worked until a few months after I saved up enough to put a down-payment on a better used-vehicle along with enough money for the next terms tuition, books, and fees.
As far as the jobs themselves, they were typically pure commission which did mean on average less than minimal wage. While not necessarily fair in the minimal wage sense, it was (just barely) enough to save and still throw some money towards the household expenses. Of course, once I graduated and had independent transpiration, I got a pair of minimal wage full-time jobs since the price of books was (and probably still is) insane so as to have a more predictable income.
I had participated in a form of "gig work" before it got the press, fortunately my employer was the friendlier sort that gave me proper breaks and even bought everyone there lunch a few times a week (it was a relatively small business, so still possible). I am not sure of British standards, but if there is not enough attrition to make Amazon think twice (since training has its own costs), there must be enough desperate unemployed or underemployed people to not quit from unreasonable terms/tasks which suggests deeper issues. While I would normally say to fix the underlying problem, I think it is worth looking at putting an band-aid on the symptom. Perhaps defining a specific class of contract work where the employed contract party is an individual and the terms of contract are defined primarily by the hiring party, then either extending traditional employment rights to them or in the case a traditional model does not fit maybe add some minor regulation on hours worked and compensation models. In either case, add improved means of filing grievances with a grant to the handling department the the authority and manpower to actually investigate and respond appropriately to such filed complaints in a timely manner I'm not one for government regulation, but if there is a problem, sometimes its for the best. It also adds room for a bit of a job factory. I've suggested similar for the US previously.
Dear Jackass, the resident Progressives here are making it about the USA. See the comments above.
Not getting enough compensation for the work you do, then don't do the work. Don't take the jobs and then cry about what you're getting in return.
Either people who CAN work for that wage will do the work, or Amazon will have to hike the wage to get people to do it.
But FFS, quit crying about an arrangement you put yourself in AND continue to operate in.
I thought we called those people executives?
The big issue here is not this specific case, but that companies have realized that via the internet they can contract "independent contractors" directly using the so called gig economy. This allows them to legally distance themselves from all types of regulation including minimum wage laws, mandatory breaks and on road hours of services described in this article.
Unless regulation change to hold companies accountable to the same laws for emplyee's and independent contractors senario's of this type will become more frequent rather then less.
It will be long wait for the UK economy to tank in spite of the feverish sweaty predictions of the mass media and the clueless.
other day on CSPAN2 they interviewed a author that recently published a book about drug dealers, abusive cops. Author mentioned nobody seeks out a career as a drug dealer, almost all make very little money except those very few at top. It is also hard work, long hours, being on the streets even when very cold for all day or night, fear of getting robbed or busted. Reason why many go into drug dealing is because "it is a company town" with no other options.
mfwright@batnet.com
Same with monopolies.
No different to console operators 10 hours no break and on your feet.
You're worrying about hurting the feelings of the lazy who instead choose to effectively steal from the public to live while contributing nothing? Bless your heart...
The reality is most likely that more decent people have already told you something similar to what I did. And that you still are trying to figure out what the heck they meant. You sound like a tough cooky in need of attention. Go out on a limb and do something nice to someone, anyone, and a first step is set.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
In the US social security disability pays max of around 14k a year. I don't know any fulltime work that pays 85% of that X.
First off, this is Amazon UK, and the 'Amazon Drivers' work for shipping contractors, not Amazon. They didn't apply to Amazon for the job, they aren't paid by Amazon, on what basis are they considered Amazon employees? Here in America, countless packages from Amazon are delivered by either UPS or USPS, yet no one considers them 'Amazon Employees', and they are paid better than minimum wages. (The greatest complaint from UPS drivers in America are the number of overtime hours UPS asks them to work, at time and a half, during the holiday season.)
Second, this is the Gig Economy, and these workers are trying to turn a 'pick-up' task that pays poorly into something that can support a family - it ain't gonna happen, not as independent contractors working at a per-piece job where they they are expected to pay for petrol, the vehicle, upkeep on the vehicle, and the insurance on the vehicle out of a few cents per kilometer.
Ken
$14K is full-time employment at minimum wage, after taxes.
Once you 'earn' SS Disability, that is a key that unlocks other benefits - SNAP, housing assistance, free medical care, etc. the average disability claimant receive more total assistance than the average worker in many states.
Ken
No, that isn't the definition of a brutal job, that's called a low-paying job, and the problem these workers have is they fail to realize they are doing piece work as a sub-contractor, literally working for themselves, and they don't understand the economics of the business they entered into. They go out, lease a truck, take out insurance, fill the truck with petrol, then agree to deliver packages at below-cost rates, hoping to overcome the deficit by taking on delivery of ever more packages.
If you are losing money per package, taking on more packages doesn't change the math.
Ken
if the business isn't able to pay enough to keep it's employees in food, clothing, shelter, etc, then it is not a viable business. If it CAN but won't then it is a leech on society.
So the purpose of a business is to feed, clothe, and shelter their employees?
Funny, I never see those metrics in any annual report, instead I see sales, revenues, expenses, and profits.
Ken
women weren't allowed to work in manual labor until the Second World War
Your teachers failed you, women worked in manual labor for centuries before World War Two...
Ken
The drivers are self-employed independent contractors, why would Amazon be on the hook for million dollar settlements?
Because their return address is on the box in the car when it hits someone? Do lawyers go rummaging through the boxes on a UPS truck when a big brown truck is involved in a traffic accident?
Ken
Did you also correct the post I replied to that said they only started in the 1930s?
Just checked, and no you didn't.
I was specifically talking about the "Rosie the Riveter" factory jobs that were not filled by women until WW II.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
UPS is the shipping co. Fedex is the one that missed classified drivers as 1099. Any ways in a court case if they can prove that the level of control makes them non self-employed then the shipping co / amazon may be on the hook. In this case Amazon will be hard pressed to say each driver is there own shipping co.
So you think the business would do just fine if it's employees were all naked half-starved hobos? Or do you believe businesses have a netural right to make you pay half their payroll for them? Perhaps you'd like to pay their light bill too?
Perhaps a bigger problem with OWS was that they were against stuff, not for things. They never did come up with a reform plan that people could get behind. If they did, they could have formed a group in the Democratic party to push for financial reforms. The demonstrations would have helped get the movement going, but shutting them down wouldn't have stopped the Occupy movement.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
its employees
neutral? natural, spoken with a South African accent?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Surry, i dun''t gi've a fly-''.!ing FICK.