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France Passes Law To Ban All Oil, Gas Production By 2040 (cbsnews.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CBS News: France's parliament has approved a law banning all exploration and production of oil and natural gas by 2040 within the country and its overseas territories. Under that law that passed a final vote on Tuesday, existing drilling permits will not be renewed and no new exploration licenses will be granted. The French government claims the ban is a world first. However, it is largely symbolic since oil and gas produced in France accounts for just 1 percent of domestic consumption. The rest is imported. French President Emmanuel Macron responded to the approval of the law on Twitter, saying in part: "Very proud that France has become the first country in the world today to ban any new oil exploration licenses with immediate effect and all oil extraction by 2040."
making completely symbolic bans that will not provide alternative energy, nor curtail use of fossil fuels in any way....is there a name for government by marketing shitheads?
... and more! also.. to be banned, by 2120!
... we're so proud of being so progressive!1
Woohoo
People working in industries that pollute the planet and endanger public health aren't automagically entitled to "jerbs." Bet you'd have said the same about workers who produced DDT pesticides and lead paint.
The French don't need it -- they're the world leaders in nuclear energy production. If their industries and cars can be cut over to electric power in 25-30 years, they'll be fine. In fact, better off than being hostage to the rest of the world for oil and gas.
No, the French will be happily reprocessing nuclear fuel and laughing at the schmucks who are still reliant on fossil fools.
This is very symbolic: french does not export much oil, and the law does not curb on oil importations.
A side note: France does not burn much oil because it uses a lot of nuclear power. However french cars still use fuel for the most of them.
LOL! They actually have a good safety record because their plants aren't based on 50 year old American or Soviet tech. I'll bet that we'll see another meltdown in the US sooner -- the US is too ignorant to replace its 40-50 year old nuclear plants with newer, safer nukes.
The digital Maginot network will save France.
The encrypted bank payment for another ship load of LNG imports will always be accepted.
France has nuclear weapons to stop any invasion by Germany and the UK.
The metro is powered by nuclear power stations. Government workers will always get to work.
New subsidised electric 2CV and H vans for the rest of France.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Largely a myth about the 20 million people -- bugs were developing DDT resistance, and DDT is not banned in countries that actually need it. Glad the US stepped up and banned it, though. Humanity without a clean ecosystem and healthy plants/animals is nothing.
Wait until they find out what plastic is made from.
Perfect excuse to reduce unnecessary use of plastic drastically.
In other news, gas produced by political windbags set to hold steady indefinitely.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Make it all out of steel!
What is a "jerb" and why would anyone want one. Sounds like a parasite if some kind.
Only until they realize that there are many non-fuel related uses of oil such as plastics, pharmaceuticals, clothing/fabrics, asphalt etc. Then there is the question about how to power their aircraft.
"the French will be happily reprocessing nuclear fuel and laughing at the schmucks who are still reliant on fossil fools."
Wait, France has nuclear powered aircraft and ocean freighters? They've been keeping that a secret.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
You can also say that if/when the consensus becomes "we *need* that fossil fuel, and fuck the climate" they can repeal this law and will have more resources left than others who burned everything as quickly as possible.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Hydrogen will work for aircraft.
Ocean freighters could be nuclear-powered. See also the Otto Hahn and NS Savannah.
Colloquial for a job. No one is entitled to a job in an industry that will soon be consigned to the toilet of history.
Same goes for all those former coalies in West Virginie. Trump might provide a temporary boost, but their jobs are dead as Marley in 5-10 years. They might as well get used to it.
France does have nuclear powered submarines. If so motivated, the same nuclear marine reactors for freight. In fact I wish this would happen. The shipping industry is perhaps one of the most polluting users of oil on the planet. The downside of course is nuclear proliferation concerns, can't imagine why the North Korean Navy might want to seize one of these. This is why we can't have nice things. :(
Electrolysis. Powered by ... nuclear reactors. Or even renewables.
I never said it was an energy SOURCE, just a good way to store energy.
How to store it? Engineering problem that's been solved in multiple ways. Read about hydrogen-powered aircraft before yipping and yapping sarcastically.
You're wasting your breath. These old fools are stuck in the past. Anything modern is just tomfoolery.
That is the equivalent of Australia banning Polar Bear hunting or the US banning all Koala skin exports, very brave move
However, it is largely symbolic since oil and gas produced in France accounts for just 1 percent of domestic consumption. The rest is imported.
The sum total effect of this is that France will go from importing 99% of it's oil and gas needs to 100%, big deal.
Ken
It's not like they are going to stop using gas and oil, they will just stop producing it - big whoop.
Ken
A decision to keep using oil and gas, but just stop producing it would accomplish what, exactly? Do you imagine importing oil and gas somehow lowers greenhouse gasses?
Ken
What are you talking about, they said they'd stop producing oil and gas, they never said they'd stop using oil and gas.
Ken
France has a few oil well, but they are producing next to nothing. So they can happily state they will produce no more *OIL*, while happily importing crude and refining it to FUEL (or Plastic whatever). As said, it is symbolic.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Fortunately this dumb stunt will not affect the French Air Force too much, as over half their aircraft are unfit to fly anyway: https://www.express.co.uk/news...
The other half are being protected from the elements by white flags.
Prior to the World Wars? One of their own tried to take over Europe.
From a military standpoint, the French have only 'recently' had issues with the Germans. Before that, they had their own empire, and liked to screw with Spain, Britain, etc. for fun.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've thought about this exact issue and my conclusion was that hydrogen fuel cells is the best alternative based on current technology.
The problem with this is that fuel cells generate electricity so you are now limiting yourself to a propeller aircraft which will be a lot slower than current jet technology. Even if you develop a hydrogen jet engine storing the fuel it needs is currently something we do not have the technology for since high pressure tanks are extremely heavy since they are metal and carbon fibre ones have far lower pressures.
It's certainly possible that there could be technological solutions to these problems before 2040 but isn't the sensible thing to develop the technology first and THEN motivate the switch to it by passing laws. Picking some arbitrary timescale and enshrining it in law is just daft when meeting the deadline depends on something over which you have no control.
Of the 98 oil producing nations on Earth, they're roughly #71. It equates out to about 0.02% of total, worldwide production.
Basically, any of the top 15 countries in the world could increase production 1% and totally negate any losses from France and its territories.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
In a big bag on top of the aircraft. What could possibly go wrong?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It even has aircraft on it!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Even with totally renewable transportation and energy, oil is still needed to manufacture many products such as plastics.
What they should really do is prohibit imports of oil from OTHER countries that are undemocratic or have lower environmental standards. That would actually make a difference for the environment, and at the same time help their security (most major oil producers are nasty/hostile dictatorships like Saudi, Iran, Russia, and Venezuela).
yes, unlike the English carriers that do not have planes..
No, the French will be happily reprocessing nuclear fuel and laughing at the schmucks who are still reliant on fossil fools.
French reactors have a problem handing reprocessed nuclear fuel and require very specific mixes in order to operate properly. It's a well known design problem even with their current generations of reactors, which are why the current and future CANDU designs are being picked by more countries as a nuclear power solution. CANDU can use any fuel source, at any stage of it's life whether enriched uranium, highly enriched uranium, plutonium, all byproduct waste from highly radioactive to low radioactive and various types of MOX fuels.
On top of that nearly all of the uranium that France uses in it's nuclear program comes directly from Canada, and the various reprocessing facilities we have here. One of the reasons S.Korea went with CANDU designs was to directly get away from the problem of "long hauling" radioactive material.
Om, nomnomnom...
On a related note, Canada has banned all production of Champagne starting in 2039.
Reprocessing nuclear fuel to power cars and make into plastics/roads/cloth?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
"...it is largely symbolic since oil and gas produced in France accounts for just 1 percent of domestic consumption."
So, France has essentially made a promise to fulfill almost two decades from now that changes damn near nothing, and they're expecting praise?
This is like watching the United States hold a 3-day celebration after announcing a ban on asbestos in new home construction.
"Hydrogen will work for aircraft."
Key word: "will," and that's just an unsupported supposition. France is stopping oil exploration now, and oil pumping by 2040. Where are France's current hydrogen powered aircraft, and where is their nuclear powered freighter design and construction occurring so they're operational and commercially feasible by 2040, and not just some government subsidized research project?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Why do you think that wind and solar will be "unreliable and expensive" by 2040? That's 23 years from now. Judging from the progress of solar and wind technology since 1994, which was 23 years ago, until today, there's no reason to assume that these won't be the preferred energy sources by then, at least for electricity generation.
Ezekiel 23:20
Nah they've been drilling for oil since 1889 on the Champs de Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and are still no closer.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
Please check the voter's and Macron's movements on the future commodities markets
If I'm not mistaken... the oil production was literally a once-off event that happened before bacteria started processing the dead matter. Once that once-off stockpile is gone, it's not coming back.
"Where does the hydrogen come from?"
The Hydrogen will be provided by the Hydrogen fairies who live in people's flower beds and consume rose petals and dandelion greens.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Oh, wait, I forgot, we're all supposed to pretend Gabon's independent.
Sure, French relations with Gabon are still managed out of the old colonial office rather than from the ministry of foreign affairs, and France's treasury backs their currency, and there are a bunch of French troops permanently stationed in the country, and (now deceased) Gabonese president Omar Bongo said "Gabon without France is like a car with no driver. France without Gabon is like a car with no fuel." But Gabon is an independent country, you bet.
That makes very little sense. As the penetration of these sources will increase, the sum of the periods in which their output won't cover our basic electrical needs will necessarily decrease. Along with that, the opportunity to store the surpluses (which will constitute an ever-increasing proportion of the generated electricity), either virtually using hydro dam regulation or physically using batteries or electrolyzers, will increase to the point that even with the round-trip inefficiencies, it will be still be economical to cover the remaining intervals of insufficient generation with the accumulated stored energy. It doesn't matter if storage doubles your costs if your input is at two euro cents per kWh. It's still cheaper than the alternatives at that point.
Ezekiel 23:20
You could probably make a nice impermeable bag from canvas, if you impregnated it with a mix of aluminium and iron oxides to protect it from UV and used nitrocellulose to bind it to the canvas.
But hey, they can always change their mind later I reckon.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
"Considering oil is a non-renewable source" - You do know that millions of gallons of oil is currently being created in the ground right now as you type that. Oil creation is ALWAYS happening. It will continue to be created even after we stop using it.
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You do realise that the first stage (the heavy lifter) used [gasp] kerosene[gasp] because there's far more energy in 'fossil fuels' than in hydrogen.
And the space shuttle REQUIRED two solid boosters to lift it and that huge tank of hydrogen (again because there's not much energy in hydrogen).
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
France doesn't produce any oil. This is the sort of virtue posturing one could expect from a nation who just elected their own version of Donald Trump, just of the opposite polarity.
It runs on whatever chemicals the French have a great surplus of as a result of not producing or consuming any soap.
300 millihertz? That's kinda fast. Better slow it down a bit and be safe.
I think France is putting the Cart before the horse. France needs to get its dependence from fossil fuel off the plate, before it stops its production and exportation.
With France leaving the production game, with demand still present it is opening itself to keep its dependence on producers such as the Middle East, Russia and America. Who at the moment aren't really nice nations to deal with. As an American I would like to think we are a good nation to trade with. But for the past year or so our relations with other countries have sucked.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We would just have to stay in the older parts of our house, where the wires are silk wound with cloth insulation, and routed with knob and tube wiring
The ACA is dead without the IRS penalizing people for not buying a 'health care plan' (which isn't something you buy, it's something you do). Nobody will be penalized, the whole thing will die because nobody is throwing their money away on 'plans' they don't need.
Particularly younger people will benefit from the recent changes. Healthy 20 year olds won't be paying for hip replacement surgery for 84 year olds with six month life expectancy.
Why do I think wind and solar will be unreliable by 2040? Because they rely on the wind blowing and the sun shining.
Why do I think that wind and solar will be expensive by 2040? You assumed too much. I don't know what wind and solar will cost in 20 years, and neither do these policymakers. Given that it's more expensive than nuclear now then there's a good chance that with technological development in wind, solar, and nuclear, in the next 20 years that the swiftest horse is the best bet. Maybe wind and solar will win, but right now nuclear is ahead. So build some nuclear now, and see which one is ahead in 20 years.
Most importantly is that unless we see a replacement for oil in the next 20 years this ban on oil will not stand. I suppose they might be stubborn and hold the oil ban as the lights go out, planes are grounded, and people generally freeze and starve to death. If there is a replacement we'll likely see a transition in full swing in 20 years. It's not likely that oil can be replaced that quickly. It took a century for steam to completely replace sail in commercial shipping.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I guess you're the fool since you failed to comprehend the mention of BIOplastics.
Ah. And who does the consigning? The philosopher-kings?
The government. The market. Whoever.
If something is too environmentally dirty to be allowed to survive, it should be killed off. If something doesn't pay (like coal -- natural gas is much easier to handle and maintain equipment), it should be allowed to die.
No support for obsolete, dirty industries.
The Toxic candidate in Alabama nearly won.
Most Republicans thought he was repugnant, but weren't going to elect a Democrat to spite reality.
Plastic is made from hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen. All of these are abundant elements. When you get them in the polymers found in crude oil, the energy cost of separating them out into ones that don't need much energy to turn into plastic is fairly low. When you start with plan oils and have to polymerise or crack them to get the right lengths, the energy costs can be higher.
Creating plastic is a problem of energy, not of raw materials. We don't use oil for them because it's the only option, we use it because it's the cheapest (especially when most of your energy comes from oil).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
France touts an end to its insignificant oil production. Meanwhile, Norway gloats about its aggressive renewable energy subsidies and emissions mandates, which are only made possible by the revenues from all the oil it produces for export.
In a big bag on top of the aircraft. What could possibly go wrong?
36 people die and the technology becomes a boogeyman and shunned.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Correct. Using H2 as a battery is terribly inefficient and dangerous. Pumped hydo is currently the most efficient, however, simply using BATTERIES is a far superior mechanism to store energy.
The central trouble is that wind and solar are relatively diffuse energy sources, so there isn't a lot of margin to spend on tricks like storage devices or superconducting networks or what not. This is not to say that it can't be done, but it's all going to take some finese. I wish them well-- sincerely, we need all the clean power we can get-- but what I expect is that the "renewables" enthusiasts will continue to be quietly accepting of burning natural gas in "peakers" to fill in the gaps.
The "nuclear proliferation" concern doesn't really seem to be a problem with nuclear energy-- there aren't any examples of countries pursuing nuclear power as a blind for weapons development, and preventing them from using nuclear power doesn't stop them from developing weapons if they really want to.
If you're envisioning that a nefarious player could hi-jack a nuclear freighter and use the material for bombs, that's not really an issue because the fuel suitable for power is only like 5% enriched, vs the 95% or so you need for bomb grade material. Starting from ore wouldn't be that much harder.
(On the other hand, you could hi-jack a nuclear freighter and use it as a power plant-- I half-way expect that's what we're going to end up doing with the US Nuclear Navy... we've got a fleet of reliable, transportable electric power plants that can steam into any harbor and begin supplying power...)
That's a pretty wide range there. Everything from letting buggy-whips go the way of the buggy to people who think they know best deciding who and what is allowed to survive. Best to pin yourself down to a position lest you be accused of not having an intellectual grounding. Here you are cheering on the demise of fossil fuels in one post, then saying natural gas is a superior technology (which I happen to agree with, but see no reason to have government pick it as the winner), but all in a story about France banning natural gas extraction right along with everything else.
... and leak water
https://www.theguardian.com/uk...
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Um, Marshall Plan....
Naval nuclear reactors are expensive. The USN dropped nuclear propulsion for surface combatants a long time ago. Cargo ships live by being economical, and nuclear-powered cargo ships aren't going to compete with other power systems.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
And lots of people will be dead. The only way to have affordable insurance plans cover pre-existing conditions is to make the insured pool larger. That's one reason health care is cheaper in places that have universal care, and which often have better outcomes than we do.
Also, you don't need a health plan until you do. At that time, you tend to need it, and you then have a pre-existing condition, so without the ACA you can't get one.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I have a feeling that Musk has somthing to do with all this. Setting lofty goals that are tough to reach... its inspirational and motivating. Were having a glimpse of the future. (reusable rockets, fucking self driving cars,).... born in 69 here and I tell ya... fucking amazing. We choose to go to the moon... not because its easy.... but because HARD.
[($)]
So, when they can no longer use KY, what lube will they switch to?
Just another day in Paradise
What an amazing idea! Let's just ban an entire industry that literately is the foundation to modern society and rely totally on imports to cover our needs. I'm sure with all the bunny rabbits dancing and the sunflowers singing the chorus all will work out just fine.
Idiots.
Hydrogen will work for aircraft.
Nah, methane and ammonia. Hydrogen is too difficult to store.
Watch this Heartland Institute video