Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Senior Citizens Will Lead the Self-Driving Revolution (theverge.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the first-come-first-serve dept.

The Villages in Florida -- home to 125,000 residents, over 54,000 homes, 32 square miles, 750 miles of road, and three distinct downtowns -- will soon get a fleet of robot taxis. "Voyage, a startup that has been operating a handful of self-driving cars in the San Jose, California-based retirement community also called The Villages, announced today that later this year it will expand to the much-larger Villages north of Orlando," reports The Verge. "This is thanks to a successful Series A fundraising round that raked in $20 million in 2017." From the report: It's an indication that, strangely enough, many of the first people to fully experience the possibilities presented by self-driving cars will be over the age of 55. Most experts agree that robot cars will first roll out as fleets of self-driving taxis in controlled environments -- college campuses, business parks, dedicated freeway lanes, city centers, or retirement communities. Self-driving startups get to boast about providing a real service for people in need, while seniors get to lord over their grandchildren about being early adopters of a bold new technology. They're also getting something a little more valuable: Voyage is giving the owners of The Villages and the smaller San Jose development equity stakes of 0.3% and 0.2%, respectively, according to The Information. Voyage's self-driving cars aren't fully driverless. Safety drivers will remain behind the wheel just in case there's a need to intervene. And to compliment its digital mapping capabilities, the startup says it will partner with Carmera, a 3D mapmaker for autonomous vehicles. This type of partnership is necessary for what Voyage believes is "the largest deployment (by area size) of self-driving cars in the world."

87 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. Sign me up! by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    It even comes with a Get-Off-My-Lawn button.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Sign me up! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      I've got two words and an acronym for you Winnebago : Self-driving RV.
      I want to go to bed in Bryce and wake up in Yosemite.

      Of course, soon to be followed by, autonomous meth lab...

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    2. Re:Sign me up! by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      They deserve it. They've only been waiting for it since seeing the Jetsons premiere.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Just because Senior Citizens generally drive slower does not mean Senior Citizens are bad drivers

    In fact, most accidents were caused by non-Senior Citizen drivers

    Have some dignity, drive your own car !!

    1. Re: Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      I habe even more dignity. That is why I let others drive. Much more comfortable. Really what has dignity to do what mode of transportation I use?

    2. Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Drive slower? My grandmother drove fast as hell. She felt that as long as she could come to a halt before a red light that is all that's required. She drove like an NYC cabbie. I don't why, but slow she was not. Much to everyone's concern.

    3. Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In fact, most accidents were caused by non-Senior Citizen drivers

      In total, or per mile driven ?

    4. Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by scottrocket · · Score: 4, Funny

      Drive slower? My grandmother drove fast as hell. She felt that as long as she could come to a halt before a red light that is all that's required. She drove like an NYC cabbie. I don't why, but slow she was not. Much to everyone's concern.

      Did she come from Pasadena?

    5. Re: Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      And nothing says safe like 40mph in the fast lane. That is way Florida has minimum speed limits.

    6. Re: Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Sure, that person is 'safe' because it will always be someone else trying to get around them.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! by CQCoder · · Score: 1

      Yeah...well.l.....it's surprising how you can _cause_ an accident without being legally liable. My ex-wife's mother was in 3 accidents. None of them _technically_ her fault. But...if you drove with her...omfg. She slows down for green lights (because they might turn yellow). She brakes hard at yellow lights. She slowly cuts you off. All three times she got hit and it wasn't her fault - but I would argue that she caused the accidents due to driving 'paranoid'. So yeah I hear you but there is a little more to it.

  3. Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I've seen these places and as someone who is almost 65, if anyone suggested that I go live in one of those Ghetto's then I'd probably kill them.
    Sorry people I'm not going to go into those places ever again. The sense that everyone is just 'Waiting for God' was over powering. As for all that beige clothing. Ugh!

    There is no way that I'm done with life. Later this year, I'm going to ride a motorcycle right around Australia. My kids are with me on these places.
    sorry, no. no and thrice No.

    1. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by aussie_a · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're a complete psycho. If someone says something to them you are going to commit murder?

      For fuck's sake. I hope someone locks you up before you do anyone serious harm.

      Get a grip.

    2. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't think the poster is a psycho. They are more than likely saying that anyone who suggested that they go live there is mad and that they'd rather die than join the others in those Ghetto's. I rather like that term for these places. It is better than 'Prison Camp for the Forgotten'. There are others names that are unprintable.

    3. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by aussie_a · · Score: 1, Insightful

      if anyone suggested that I go live in one of those Ghetto's then I'd probably kill them.

      Either the GP has a poor understanding of English or they are in fact claiming they would likely kill anyone who made this particular suggestion to them.

      That is not the course of action reasonable people take. Psychos on the other hand, have no such compunctions.

    4. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      It's called hyperbole. If I met someone as dense as you in real life, I'd probably kill them.

      Hint: that's also hyperbole.

    5. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the silicon valley bros will soon announce than motorbikes will be banned since its unlikely an automated motorbike woiuld ever be developed and they can't have their nice automated cars on roads with unpredictable human drivers now can they?

      Silicon valley knows whats good for us, remember that. Big Brother has nothing on these guys.

    6. Re:Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Later this year, I'm going to ride a motorcycle right around Australia.

      I recommend a jet-ski or boat for riding around Australia. Motorcycles don't deal well with being submerged in the ocean.

    7. Re: Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I prefer to piss off the Grim Reaper by living somewhere other than a retirement barrio. Let the shit have to waste time hunting me down.

    8. Re: Welcome to the modern Ghetto! by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      I suppose this mentality is how Trump got elected. I have no responsibility for my actions or words so long as sufficient number of other people do the same thing.

  4. The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by ClarkMills · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Drugs don't seem to work 100% for her so she can't drive. The elderly & the blind (vision impaired) are all early candidates.
    I like driving but even I'd prefer to /. , gander or snooze. Bring it on.

    1. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by rossdee · · Score: 1

      I have poor vision, not quite legally blind, bjt certainly not good enough to drive.

      and my wife has epilepsy.

      I walk to work (1 mile) except in bad weather (like rain or extremecold.)
      Fortunately right now its my night off.

    2. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The elderly & the blind (vision impaired) are all early candidates

      Exactly. I don't understand why the authors of the article find it strange that the early adopters of self driving cars are people who have problems driving themselves. For them, there's a clear business case that justifies the expense. The fact that the Villages is a closed community filled with prospective clients makes it a perfect candidate for a pilot. Not strange at all...

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by be951 · · Score: 1

      Yes, there are a number of things that affect elderly people such that they cannot or should not drive -- vision impairment, as you noted, and even just declining ability to react quickly enough to safely operate a vehicle.

      Those factors, combined with attributes of a retirement community like the Villages, such as being a somewhat isolated environment, moderate traffic, better than average signage and road markings, somewhat favorable weather (e.g. they're often in places with no snow), etc... make it a good place for rolling out early versions of fully autonomous vehicles.

      Florida has for years had lax requirements for driver's licenses to cater to the large retiree population, allowing many drivers to keep driving privileges long after their reduced physical or mental abilities have made it a safety issue. Self driving cars provide a way for those who should not be on the road to keep freedom of movement with respect to personal transportation without the safety risks inherent is just letting them keep their driving privileges. As a result, I expect states like Florida and Arizona (the old and new favored destinations to retire to) to be early adopters of laws friendly to autonomous vehicles. Also California, with the largest number of elderly (though near the bottom percentage-wise) combined with the tech-friendliness due to being the home of silicon valley.

      And I agree. There are plenty of things I'd rather spend my attention on than driving.

    4. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by Only+Time+Will+Tell · · Score: 1

      My mother is legally blind and has been unable to drive for years now. She's 65 and can't really navigate the Uber process on a smartphone (especially due to low-vision). My dad currently has to take off work to shuttle her to doctor appointments. I'm sure they aren't alone in this predicament and SDC will be a godsend for those with such disabilities to be able to get out of the house and carry out normal daily functions. Even for able-bodied individuals, it will be great to gain back driving time as productive or relaxing time where you can read a book, prepare for the morning's meetings, or just nap as the car moves you along. I can't wait for this to go mainstream.

    5. Re: The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Consider a self driving hover board?

    6. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I've said for a while now that I want a self-driving car before my kids come to me to take my keys away. I see the value and dignity of independent mobility, but I also know that at some point accumulated knowledge and experience will no longer compensate for an ageing body and brain.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    7. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I won't let my kids use self driving cars until they are at least twice as safe as a human driver in any condition including ice-rutted roads in blowing snow. I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime. Maybe not theirs.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    8. Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      It's going to be a lot more than 20 years, but keep dreaming. The way some of you people talk, humans would be totally uninsurable.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  5. Once the price comes down, anyway by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.

      You might want to look up this "retirement community". Their target customer isn't senior citizens, it's rich people who happen to be over 55.

      The community, geographically larger than Manhattan, features more than 40 golf courses, a polo arena and special events throughout the year. Most of the more than 123,000 residents travel via golf cart, some of which have been upgraded enough to cost more than most cars.

      I betcha the streets are all very low speed limits if golf carts are considered "normal road traffic". Perfect place to test a bunch of unproven vehicle technology.

    2. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash

      They do in The Villages. It is located in Silicon Valley. A townhouse there can cost nearly $1M, and a modest house nearly $2M. It is not for poor people. It is a good choice for a rollout because they can afford the cars, and many of them are techno-geezers.

      Disclaimer: I live in San Jose, about 5 miles from The Villages, and I know several people that live there.

    3. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most senior citizens donâ(TM)t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.

      But you don't need "most", you need a market that has moderate wealth and who'd desperately like to get back to the freedom of having a car. I think my parents would be a good case, they lost their driver's licenses involuntarily - okay my mom gave hers up, but only because it was obvious she wasn't fit to drive anymore - and they have a down paid house and comfortable economy. They could take taxis and occasionally they do but it's to them different, it's like not their car, driven by a stranger and for some things like going to their cabin it feels awkwardly expensive even though that's more psychological. I mean let's say they'd probably have a $30k car each if they could drive, together plus extra "I want it" factor... I think they'd pay $100k for a self-driving car.

      Not that this sounds like anything like that, it's a slow-moving ride with a safety driver meaning it's basically just testing of the kind Google has been doing for many years. This seems to be more of a novelty, but I guess they're hoping to be bought by someone trying to jump on the SDC bandwagon. I'd be very surprised if this is the path to market dominance. But they, the more the merrier I just wish they'd get there... they've barely started to put the safety driver in the back seat, much less kick him out entirely.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      The people in The Villages in Lake County are far from poor.

      Not a single fucking one of them can drive though. Even the ones that aren't as old as Methuselah. I don't miss Leesburg Florida a bit. I'm told it's much worse than it was 30 years ago now that that place has gotten so big.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    5. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by Kjella · · Score: 2

      The Villages referred to in this article is in Florida. It says so right in the summary. The rest of your comment is correct. The Villages is not populated by poor retirees.

      Apparently they have many different locations called "The Villages", even in the summary they mention "the smaller San Jose Development".

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      They do in The Villages. It is located in Silicon Valley. A townhouse there can cost nearly $1M, and a modest house nearly $2M. It is not for poor people.

      From my understanding of real estate in Silicon Valley, these property values are typical.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    7. Re:Once the price comes down, anyway by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      Individuals may not be able to afford it. But as a taxi with no labor cost (no driver), the car will be in use all the time, spreading the cost of the vehicle across a hundred trips per day instead of the 2-6 per day most individuals would make. With self-driving taxi's, I will only pay for the portion of the car I use. So, instead of buying a whole car, I pay for the wear and tear of one trip, plus the fuel, repairs, insurance, etc. that corresponds to my use of the vehicle. And instead of having to commit to the whole car, I only commit to paying for the car for today. Over the long term, the cost of owning (frugally) and using a self-driving taxi service will be a similar cost with the following differences:

      I'll never have to make a large financial transaction to replace my vehicle. I don't have to worry that I'm buying a lemon.
      I won't have to have the expense of the car insurance, taxes, or registration.
      I don't have to make a space to park the vehicle off the roadway. I don't have to worry about somebody breaking into or stealing my vehicle. Crooks won't be able to tell if I'm home by if the car is in the drive.
      I don't have to take my vehicle in for maintenance.
      I don't have to fill it up with gas.
      I'll never have to pay for parking at the airport, downtown, or other pay parking situations.
      I will have the flexibility to have the vehicle I need when I want it. If it's just me, I can have them send out a two seat economy car, but if I'm taking along lots of family, I can have them send a larger model without having to pay for it all of the time, or going to the effort of renting it when I need it.
      If I'm not feeling well, or need to sleep, or I've been drinking, the movement of the vehicle is not impacted, and everybody is safer.

      In the end, the cost of owning and taking a self driving taxi will probably be the same. Heck, for me, I'll probably be riding in a newer vehicle in a self driving taxi, with more convenience and at a similar cost. Sign me up.

  6. Trust? by antdude · · Score: 1

    Will seniors trust them? What about disabled young people like me? :(

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    1. Re:Trust? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Will seniors trust them?

      Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning. If data shows SDCs are safe, and they have a lower accident rate than HDCs, then they will trust them.

      What about disabled young people like me? :(

      Young people tend to just go with the crowd. So if their Facebook friends trust SDCs, so will they.

    2. Re:Trust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well I see it like this:

      "My granddaughter told me about this autopilot car thing. I was of course, not impressed, but she convinced me and took me for a spin round the block---and let me tell you Gretchen, it was a whopper! Real daggum fine piece of work. Those tech folks sure are onto something, and I don't have to strain my hip every time I gotta brake at the corner with the loose-chained dog! the auto driver just went right around Fido."

      Basically, word-of-mouth and pilot programs for subsidized rates will give the PR needed to convince old folks to try it out. The downside is if they have a bad first impression, its an extreme uphill climb afterwards.

      and if you have any disabled friends, perhaps you could collectively ask (pester?) your insurance companies with questions about the auto-driving thing, because if they get a spike in inquiries, they will know there is a demand, and may even add coverage options (this is a very optimistic angle given the whole medical industry I admit).

    3. Re:Trust? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Of course they will trust them......there will still be an actual human driver behind the wheel.

      This is putting the cart before the horse so to speak (the bumper before the AI?)......the technology isn't ready for self-driving yet, and they are already trying to sell it. Realistically, once the technology is ready, people will be lining up to buy it. That stuff will sell itself.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Trust? by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning. If data shows SDCs are safe, and they have a lower accident rate than HDCs, then they will trust them.

      No need. If a self-driving car lets a senior get around still, they will buy them in droves. Seniors can be fiercely independent, and often one of the hardest things a son or daughter must do is confiscate their parent's driver license, or write to the DOT saying their parents should have their license revoked.

      Likewise, many seniors will go into depression if their doctor says they shouldn't drive anymore.

      A self-driving car that lets them drive around still is a godsend as they're not dependent on taxies, public transport, uber/lyft/etc or family to drive them around.

      Thus, they are more receptive of SDCs if it means they can still maintain a lifestyle of relative independence. Even in the early days, all it takes is one of the neighbours saying they are much happier being able to get around by themselves even though they were forced to give up their license to have everyone out car shopping the next day.

    5. Re:Trust? by Namarrgon · · Score: 2

      There's no drivers behind the wheel in the Waymo taxis in Phoenix. True Level-4 self-driving cars are already here.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    6. Re:Trust? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning.

      And yet far more seniors engage in jaded skepticism. Trust in technology and technological adoption including technologies which take over decision making is far more prevalent among the young than the old.

      The research on this has shown the trends not to change over time. It is still consistent with the angst older people had about autopilots in airliners and computers in the 80s and 90s.

    7. Re:Trust? by mentil · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Many seniors also engage in blatantly prejudicial and biased reasoning. Ask a WW2 vet who swallowed the anti-Japanese propaganda how they feel about Sony or Toyota, 75+ years after the war and the occupation and the rewritten constitution and all the new generations of Japanese born after the war who were raised on Western ideas. As one example. There's also "this is the way I've always done it, so I'll do it this way until I die" stubbornness. There are TONS of people, seniors or no, who feel safer driving than flying in a large commercial aircraft despite the statistics being very clear that the latter is far safer.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    8. Re:Trust? by stealth_finger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Will seniors trust them?

      Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning. If data shows SDCs are safe, and they have a lower accident rate than HDCs, then they will trust them

      Really? I tend to find they flatly reject anything that's not part of their already established worldview.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    9. Re:Trust? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning

      Maybe where you live, but in the UK the analysis of recent election results tells the exact opposite story. Older people were far more swayed by appeals to emotion than to logic.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Trust? by houghi · · Score: 1

      My mom drove well past the point where she was a danger on the road. Luckily nobody got ever hurt. Once she told me she would not drive, I insisted of selling the cars ASAP, she she would not change her mind.
      Would self driving card been a thing, I would have suggested it at least 10 years earlier to buy one of those.
      It would have given them an even better life experience than what they already had. Now one of them was not allowed to have wine with their food or where restricted to close restaurants that they could walk to.

      Plenty of those, but in the end it was just one. Walking 500 meters became a very difficult thing to do. As they lived in Spain, eating out for lunch few times per week is not that uncommon. Beats making your own food. And it being Northern Spain, after that lunch (at 15:00 or so) no dinner was needed.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    11. Re:Trust? by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      To generalize, but only slightly, we older folk have world views that are both based on, and consistent with, actual experience. We are generally willing to change them given sufficient evidence, but quite reluctant otherwise. And keep in mind that the blatherings of politicians and celebrities and so-called "scientists" or "experts" who don't do actual, evidence-based science, or are on the payroll of those with vested interests in said blatherings, do not constitute "evidence." We tend to remember the Cold War, the "global ice age," innumerable false flag ops, and various other mass delusions, which makes us much more skeptical about the current ones than younger folk, not because they are stupid necessarily, but because they just haven't been around long enough yet to understand that most folks have an agenda, which needs to be taken into account when trying to assess their credibility or lack thereof.

      --

      Nonaggression works!
    12. Re:Trust? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I know people 40+ that say they will never trust them. One person I know has adaptive cruise control in their car and won't use it.

      Also, I think it depends a lot on whether they get you to your destination 99.999% of the time, or tend to stop by the side of the road confused about something.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    13. Re:Trust? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Um, that is not self driving then if there is a human driver behind the wheel.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    14. Re:Trust? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's good to know.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  7. Not surprising by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    My dad now only drives for local journeys during daylight hours. For anything else he either gets a lift or a taxi. I'm sure that if a self-driving car was cheaper than using taxis he'd sign up.

    1. Re:Not surprising by Kiuas · · Score: 2

      Eventually the Taxi will be self-driving. Why would anyone bother owning a self-driving car?

      Money. The answer is money.

      When you own a self-driving car it can make you money by doubling as a taxi when it's not needed by you.

      Let me paint you a picture, say 15-20 years into the future: I own a self-driving car and take it to work in the morning, and it takes off to find a parking spot somewhere nearby. I've configured the car so that my close circle of friends can use it during my office hours for trips shorter than N kilometers for a distance based fee that covers the operating expense and maybe say, a 5 % margin. So at 10:30 my smartphone lets me know that the vehicle is on its way to pick up my friend and take him to his job interview or whatever, and once it's done I receive a payment from my friend.

      At 11:30 the car is still on the other side of town charging itself, when a nearby unknown to me user of the app requests for my permission to use the car to get to the center of the city. I check out his profile and see that he's been well reviewed by other car owners, so I offer him a price on the trip and he agrees. He pays in advance, the car takes him to his destination and the returns to pick me from the office and take me home. In the evening as I'm watching a movie the app beeps, another friend is at a bar requesting pickup. Since I've no need for the car for the evening, I okay it and it leaves to take the fellow home via a drive through. Cheaper for him than taking a taxi, and I get some income.

      I'm not saying this is the way everyone will do it, but the general point is that shared use of a vehicle with a group of friends for example is much cheaper than either everyone owning a car of their own, or everyone using taxies to go everywhere.

      Just something to think about.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    2. Re:Not surprising by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Might want to get his eyes checked. Avoiding night driving can be an early indicator of cataracts.

      Thanks. Sad to say it is early-stage macular degeneration, and at the doctor's advice he has 6-monthly checks to see that he can still drive safely in daylight.

    3. Re:Not surprising by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone buy a house when they can just rent one??

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:Not surprising by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      But then you are the taxi owner, just under a less formal definition of the word. And somebody who makes it their business to own 50 cars, will be able to undercut you on the price because he will be more motivated to have his cars full all the time.

  8. Senior drives 400 miles while dead? by xxxLCxxx · · Score: 1

    In our lovely caring environments, every once in a while, we read something about an elderly person being found dead in the apartment only because after a couple of months the stench had become unbearable and flies manifested themselves all around... I wonder how long it will take until we will read stories like "senior drives 400 miles in automated car while dead"? Do we have to pronounce this "progress"?

    1. Re:Senior drives 400 miles while dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It will be safer. There will be a button that drives you to the nearest hospital or police station probably. This is better than "senior dies at the wheel causes 12 car pile up". Besides, if your Apple Watch can already track your heartbeat I'm sure the car will know if your vital signs are abnormal and recommend help. It is most definitely progress.

    2. Re:Senior drives 400 miles while dead? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      It sure beats the current situation where dead seniors drive into someone else and kill them too. If you have some strange objection to traveling while dead, we can add an auto-eject system to detect when the occupant stops breathing and toss them out onto the shoulder of the road while the car goes home.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:Senior drives 400 miles while dead? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I wonder how long it will take until we will read stories like "senior drives 400 miles in automated car while dead"?

      They can detect driver death from sensors in the seat. So, it will probably happen in China, but not here in the USA.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Senior drives 400 miles while dead? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What would ever give you the idea that the state (or the people) in China care more about human life than in the USA?

      You just failed your reading comprehension test. Congratulations! Back to elementary school with you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. What did you say? by Arzaboa · · Score: 1

    If all cars were electric, I wouldn't have to turn down my hearing aids due to the road noise from the highway!

    --
    Alexa, add "big hairy balls" to my shopping list. - Cartman

  10. Not strange at all; makes sense for olders by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    strangely enough, many of the first people...will be over the age of 55

    Many elderly people have reached the stage where they know they should not be driving any more, but have to...or move from the house they've lived in for years. So this could be great for them...

    1. Re:Not strange at all; makes sense for olders by Shag · · Score: 1

      And even those who are still fine know it's going to happen sooner or later.

      A sixty-something guy I used to work with got a Tesla in part because of all the assistive features (and opted for the features), because he figures in 10 years, he might appreciate things like self-park, stay-in-lane, adaptive cruise control and all that, even if he doesn't need them right this instant.

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    2. Re:Not strange at all; makes sense for olders by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      Many elderly people have reached the stage where they know they should not be driving any more, but have to...or move from the house they've lived in for years. So this could be great for them...

      My parents can still drive ok. They just find it more and more stressful as they age. They just bought a new Toyota with all of the available accident avoidance systems, and they love it.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    3. Re:Not strange at all; makes sense for olders by xxxLCxxx · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with a taxi? In many countries senior citizens get a discount on public transportation (bus, taxi, ...).
      If it's not the case where you live, shouldn't this be fixed first before everybody goes and buys a new car?

  11. Nobody here has been to the Villages in FL by swb · · Score: 4, Informative

    Reading these comments, it seems nobody has actually been to the Villages in Florida.

    The summary is right, it's huge -- it goes on and on and on. What it leaves out, though, is that the entire place is meant to be navigable on foot but mostly via golf cart. Everybody there has a customized golf cart, and you can go anywhere in the Villages via golf cart and everyone does. There's almost no automobile traffic.

    The place is split up into "towns" with each one having a little town square and often its own recreational features (pools, community centers, golf courses, etc). They're all open to all Villages residents, too, and the little squares have businesses that are unique.

    It's also pretty affluent -- the newer parts of the Villages are pretty luxurious and I think they get a lot of money for the homes/townhouses. The older parts are more similar to small prefab houses, but I think the whole place is in demand and while parts are cheaper, none are cheap. (Side fact: very high STD incidence in the Villages).

    Anyway, it seems like a reasonable place to test self-driving cars due to the limited traffic. The downside is you'll never pull these people out of their golf carts. I'd wager that there are people who can't drive a car but still drive their golf cart. Plus, most of the residents are still in a pretty mobile/independent stage of living. If you already can't drive at all, you probably have other problems that make living in your own home a challenge, limiting the audience for self-driving cars.

    1. Re:Nobody here has been to the Villages in FL by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      I lived in Leesburg.

      Those people already can't drive. If they leave the Villages, they operate their car as if they were in a golf cart. Badly.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    2. Re:Nobody here has been to the Villages in FL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: if you try to leave a Rover will pursue you?

    3. Re:Nobody here has been to the Villages in FL by swb · · Score: 1

      To be honest, the Villages is about as good as it gets for senior living.

      I'm not sure I'd want to be there at age 55, but it's actually a hell of lot nicer than senior living options in most other places.

  12. Honestly, I think it'll will be the young... by Eloking · · Score: 1

    that will lead the Self-Driving Revolution.

    I get the article and it give a good insight. But when I think it been 20 years that I remind my mother that she don't need to double-click a link on her facebook, I'm pretty sure the elderly won't be too thrilled about automomus car.

    On the other hand I look at myself. I got a car with a manual transmission and, once, I told a techie friend that I'm not gonna buy a self-driving car because I love to drive. But then he told me that not only and I could play with my phone or look at the TV but also that I could start my work shift in my car and nullify most of the time lost while driving to work (I can work at home so my employer would allow it).

    I wonder about motion sickness though...

    --
    Elok
  13. Theft issue by ne7minder · · Score: 1

    The Villages are famous for a couple of interesting problems. High rates of STDs is one but not the important one here. There is a huge theft problem with their customized golf carts the olds drive around there. A chop shop ring was recently busted run by some of the residents. They steal the cars, chop them & sell the parts. Could be interesting to see how long self driving cars can make it there.

  14. Are you an idiot? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    Or just another socially clueless aspie? Can't you spot metaphor and hyperbole when its so bloody obvious?

    1. Re:Are you an idiot? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      It is bloody obvious to anyone with a normally functioning brain. Clearly you're not part of that group either.

  15. Jitterbug for Cars by Only+Time+Will+Tell · · Score: 1

    So this is the car equivalent of the Jitterbug phone where its functions are dumbed down for the elderly. I kid...I kid...

  16. Nothing strange about that by atrex · · Score: 1

    One of the biggest markets for self driving cars is providing car service for people that can no longer drive themselves safely. No longer will a senior citizen who has lost their license (or has just become to afraid to drive) be dependent on their friends/neighbors/children to get them to the doctor's office on time or down to the corner grocery store to pick up some bananas and prunes.

    1. Re:Nothing strange about that by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The question is, will self driving be reliable enough for them? What will happen when it turns the wrong way down a one way street and pulls over and turns off?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Nothing strange about that by atrex · · Score: 1

      It pulls over and pages a technician who either assumes control of the vehicle remotely to put it back on the road or who drives to the location and fixes it while commercial laden video entertains the passenger (who may or may not get the cost of their ride refunded in exchange for the inconvenience).

    3. Re:Nothing strange about that by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Will they have training to deal with an elderly person that may have medical conditions? How long will this leave the elderly stranded without meds?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:Nothing strange about that by atrex · · Score: 1

      Well, considering that these vehicles are being deployed for a retirement village, they should include an emergency call button that the person can press to get medical assistance in such events (OnStar/911/etc). Or, the vehicles could include biometric monitoring features to monitor the condition of the passenger and automatically alert medical personnel/drive the vehicle to an appropriate place in the event of a medical emergency.

      Obviously, the service time interval in the event a technician's presence is required shouldn't be any greater (and should be far less) than comparatively waiting for a tow truck to arrive as if a taxi got a flat tire or otherwise broke down. Or, don't even make the customer wait for a service tech, automatically dispatch the nearest unoccupied working vehicle to the scene and ask the customer to switch vehicles.

      You can play devil's advocate all you want, but, one way or another there is a way to reduce the scenarios down to the point where they are little different than what would happen if a human driven taxi encountered a problem - minus being able to administer immediate medical care to the passenger, but how many taxi drivers in the US are trained to handle medical emergencies anyway? That may be a thing in some other countries, but I don't see any evidence of it in the case of the US. Certainly Uber and Lyft drivers aren't.

    5. Re:Nothing strange about that by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I think you are way overestimating how frequently automated cars will get confused and stop. Certainly an order of magnitude more than when a taxi breaks down or fails to deliver the passenger.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  17. As My step mom used to say by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Let'em hit me. I'm older and better insured!

    Also, driving with her was a white knuckle experience if there ever was one....

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  18. Nah, it'll be millennials by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

    Millennials are the ones not purchasing cars or bothering to learn to drive or get licenses. They'll be the ones pushing for the robotic driver revolution.

  19. Tesla to the rescue! by mspohr · · Score: 1

    I'm 70 and have a Tesla. The car gets regular software updates to improve it's Autopilot and safe driving capabilities.
    I'm hoping that the car will improve at least as fast as my abilities decline so it can take over as I become feeble.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  20. But... by OhSoLaMeow · · Score: 1

    Will it leave the turn signal on as it drives down the road?

    --
    They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
  21. In AI news... by RichZellich · · Score: 1

    In other news, AI researchers were startled to discover that self-driving AI's trained on Florida streets now leave their left blinkers on all the time.