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The Human Cost of the Apple Supply Chain Machine (bloomberg.com)
Apple is still struggling to improve working conditions at its supply chain factories. China Labor Watch and Bloomberg reported on Tuesday that Catcher, a key supplier for iPhone and MacBook casings, makes workers endure harsh safety conditions and unfair work terms in a factory in Suqian. According to observers and discussions with workers, the machines are not only loud, but spray fluid and metallic particles that frequently hit workers' faces only some of which have access to safety goggles and gloves. From the report: Hundreds throng a workshop where the main door only opens about 12 inches. Off duty, they return to debris-strewn dorms bereft of showers or hot water. Many go without washing for days at a time, workers told Bloomberg. "My hands turned bloodless white after a day of work," said one of the workers, who makes a little over 4,000 yuan a month (just over $2 an hour) in her first job outside her home province of Henan. She turned to Catcher because her husband's home-decorating business was struggling. "I only tell good things to my family and keep the sufferings like this for myself." "I asked for the earplugs many times but they didn't have any. The loud noise of 'zah-zah' made my head ache and dizzy," one of those employees told Bloomberg.
I'm really tired of the Apple Shaming Society. It's like theres some group of people out there whjo make it their bussiness to rapidly notify all of us apple users or non-users that the company-that-can-do-no-wrong has a skid mark on it's shorts. Really were not thew naive. We don't exhalt apple to sainthood. It's a company that makes products we like or loath but it's not expected to be saintly. And most people even know that apple does go a mile further than most it is making sure it's foxconn suicide nets are secure and that the toxic effluent is at least mint flavored and made from recylced whale blubber not fresh kills.
Please explain what does this have to do with making china great again?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Apple is still struggling to give the impression that it gives a tinker's cuss about working conditions at its supplier chain factories.
FTFY
P.S. Supply chain, not supplier chain.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Apple had the courage to remove the headphone jack. And to drive prices up to $1,000 per unit. These measures will ultimately result in improved working conditions for those who are privileged to be building Apple's hardware. I heard that the wealth trickles down.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
All of this feels like a problem in need of a solution.
I do not know that the solution will not have its own problems perhaps worse than the original problem.
I think of slavery in relation to modern robotics, only in strict economic terms and minus the human cost, it allowed the foundation of american commerce in regard to certain industries. Robots are servants with no cost. Was society more or less prosperous with servants that had no cost? Our current lifestyle does not account for servants with no cost, would our lifestyle change?
Would automation improve the lives of these people, or would modern robotics wipe out potentially the only source of income available leaving them in a worse economic situation?
My gut tells me that we should proceed, automate all jobs possible to automate and begin to move past a society with money. If for no other reason than to have experimented with it, failed, but learned along the way.
19th century working conditions. If all countries had laws that required the selling company to prove that their workers are treated and paid humanely the world would look quite different. Which, of course, is exactly why this will never happen. Greed is good for too many people in high places.
-- Cheers!
Where is my new iphone I want one!!!!!
Why is my ifone battery delayed 2 months
This is sillycon valley. Mine, give me now give me more.
Bla, etc. I'm entitled.
Seriously, yes it is horrible.. No human is worth an I fone..
This is not new.
It doesn't take 10 years to fix this.
It's clear apple isn't really trying to fix it.
Especially for trivial inexpensive things like safety glasses and ear plugs.
The workers need to be able to sue Apple for disability.
THEN Apple will fix the problem.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
The wife works in a factory and the husband owns a home decorating business? Well THERE'S your problem.
In China, most factory workers are women. The men are back on the farm doing heavy labor. Most modern factory work requires dexterity, not strength.
But how far up the chain should Apple's responsibility go? Should they be responsible for the farmers that grow the rice served in the company cafeteria?
Apple only cares precisely to the degree that the law, and their customers, require them to care. Not an ounce more.
The law doesn't require them to care hardly at all, since it allows them to use this cheap foreign labor.
Their customers complain about this, but continue to be their customers. Therefore, their customers also don't require them to care.
So, there it is.
Why do you expect apple to fix this? Yout hink all the others using China are nto keeping the same deplorable conditions? China needs to step up and say treat people better but they wont!
It's clear apple isn't really trying to fix it.
Why would they? Businesses don't do things that reduce their profits, unless someone forces them. So the U.S. govt. needs to make laws that govern how US companies treat sweatshop laborers in foreign countries.
Without these laws and regulations, the businesses will continue the abuse.
I thought that part of the reason for the high price was to be able to better pay those who make it.
Silly me.
How much of this is Apple, and how much of this is China, which has a long history of not giving a fuck about silly little things like human rights, and who has some very corrupt businesspeople who will do anything to make enough money to maybe escape the shithole that is living in Communist China?
Before anybody gets on their high-horse over this, I am saying it's split evenly between BOTH APPLE AND CHINA. Apple would be charging $2000 for a goddamned iphone if they had to pay for U.S. wages and working conditions, and China really doesn't value human life, and treats workers like farm animals and throw-aways. Apple can't make what we'd call real 'hard decisions' because no other smartphone company is going to, so Apple would go out of business. China isn't going to change because they clearly and objectively don't give a fuck, the 0.001% of Chinese who have any wealth will do anything to ensure them and their families have enough money to escape Communist rule.
The only way this shit changes is if ALL OF US stop buying shit mass-produced for cheap in China and other Asian countries that treat human beings like dogshit. Of course none of you are going to do that so we perpetuate our entire SPECIES acting like brutal animals that prey on our own kind.
Maybe we deserve to be annihilated for our collective crimes against humanity, day after year after millennia.
As bad as this is, what about Samsung case makers? Or any other computer for that matter? They are pulling even worse shit that you in your Apple Hatred are too blind to also point out, implying only Apple is to blame...
But Apple actually monitors and takes actions against bad suppliers. How many other companies do anything at all?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No matter what an employer does, there will always be complainants. Even for Google, where many think is an utopia to work, has folks who complain. Heck, some have even quit...yet thousands keep applying to join.
Are we asking Tim to kinda randomly send scouts to these factories?
Last time you bought something, did you check if everyone involved was being treated fairly? Are you responsible for all the production steps that happens when you buy anything?
Let's say you buy some Oreo cookies:
- where did all the ingredients come from? Was there any people or animals harmed? What about harm to the land itself?
- how was the packaging manufactured? Which method was used to procure the oil used to make the plastic packaging? Was it harmful to the environment?
- how much polution was produced to make the cookies, the packaging, transport it between the supplier and the warehouse, then the warehouse to the grocery store where you shop? And when you drove there to buy them and bring them back to your house?
Say what you want, but even if Apple are trying, they're only working via contracts with manufacturers. They can ask of them to adhere to certain standards, but the fact is that everything costs money. That's capitalism at work.
#DeleteFacebook
Ignore the Russian troll sent here to make liberals look like baffoons.
Apple isn't able to produce phones that sell for only $1,000 without slave labor. They only have $231 billion of cash on hand. Think of the children of the Apple executives.
I came here to post that too
but 12 inch doorways seem truly cruel
As responsible as the customers want them to be. I personally wouldn't justify paying 1k + for a phone that took $2/hr to make. Especially not when the phone screams "overpriced pretentious tech built on exploited labor" to everyone around me. Sad thing is these workers can't even afford to send a sad face emoji on the iPhone X.
Apple can fix this problem with a single phone call that goes something like: "Fix these working conditions or our business is going elsewhere".
Apple has said repeatedly they move suppliers who do not meet their standards. The same goes here, if they do not improve Apple will find someone who can...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You misspelled balloons.
Oreos are vegan
The USA congratulates itself for having excellent workplace safety, child labor, and environmental laws. Meanwhile we export our jobs to countries that don't give a damn. This makes no sense. Maybe free trade should be contingent on following practices similar to ours. Just an idea.
COE
* Does not apply to all human beings.
The Human Cost of the Apple Supply Chain Machine
As demonstrated in their upcoming HumancentiPad product line.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
only some of which have access to safety goggles and gloves.
China makes these things by the 100s of millions. You mean they can't walk over to the factory next door and get a few pairs?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
And that is why we have governments.
To ensure people and animals are not being harmed.
And that's a problem with allowing companies in a country with one set of work standards to use .. say... human slaves in another country where slavery is legal.
If we don't stop slavery, and deadly working conditions for products sold in our country, then slavery and those working conditions will return to our country.
Apple isn't trying. Paying a third party to perform random inspections would be trivial to implement.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Other manufacturers do not charge $1000 for a phone. I would not be surprised to find that the poor sods making phones that sell $30 are exploited, but come on do you need to exploit people to make phone that sells for $1000 profitable?
You can't use that as an excuse to support a company that has literally hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars but only pays their workers $2/hour. Basically at best what you are saying is "It's a pretty big job so it's better that we don't start it" or at worst "Fuck you, I got my iphone".
You'd think Apple could solve this problem while they're making $1000 profit on every phone and sitting on $100B in cash. Just pay people more, build better working facilities, hire more people so they don't have to work 16 hours/day.
It's easy to solve labor condition problems with money. There just isn't the will to do it. Apple loves slave labor like every other capitalist.
wiling to bet that every single of bit of consumer electronics you own, have owned, or will own is made in very similar conditions.
Apple is not special in this case; they just make themselves an easy target by the price premium and dodgy tax shit they pull (which again, they are not special or unique in this regard)
If you can't have the Triangle Shirtwaist factory here due to labor protection laws, you just move it overseas. Sell at American prices, pay slave labor. Win-win.
If the lazy, entitled American worker insists on things like clean air, clean water, weekends, OSHA standards and the like, move your factory to a more rugged-individualist-friendly nation.
Last time you bought something, did you check if everyone involved was being treated fairly? Are you responsible for all the production steps that happens when you buy anything? ...
...Say what you want, but even if Apple are trying, they're only working via contracts with manufacturers. They can ask of them to adhere to certain standards, but the fact is that everything costs money. That's capitalism at work.
I think most of the mockery at Apple here is based on their faux-concern. They acted like this was all a shock to them, and they had no idea conditions were so bad the first time this was reported. They were going to solve this problem.
Obviously they haven't. And Obviously they could have. It would take a hit on their profits, but not put them in any dangerous water.
The mockery at Apple is they were going to fix this problem; their PR department said they would. Then they did nothing. Sure, I bet all phones are made under equally terrible conditions, but only Apple is showing mock outrage and then doing nothing about it.
As bad as this is, what about Samsung case makers? Or any other computer for that matter? They are pulling even worse shit that you in your Apple Hatred are too blind to also point out, implying only Apple is to blame...
But Apple actually monitors and takes actions against bad suppliers. How many other companies do anything at all?
You can buy 3d-printed Samsung cases from many first world countries. You can even download a model and print one out yourself. Ironically the abuses by Apple, a company I boycott due to their human right abuses, anti consumer lobbying, media manipulation, anti greenpolicies and simply not producing good products. Shamefully Google keep trying to move manufacturing to the USA unlike Apple. In fact the raspberry pi is made in the UK in a Sony factory. As an ethical consumer I buy from these companies.
...Until is more fair?
If this were capitalism at work, we would see those jobs HERE IN THE USA.
Since they're in China, that's because of crony capitalism, companies bought politicians to open China up for such abuses.
The turn off for me is the overseas sheltered profits. The overbearing miserable greedy Buddhist who founded the company.[That's an oxymoron in itself} Putting suicide nets around the top of the foxconn building should have been a clue.But some people are still believing that because the product is "Swell" the company cannot be that corrupt when it comes to human rights. Burns and Smithers have nothing on these folks. I buy my phones from other companies.Are they that mean to the help? I do not know,but I have heard enough bad news about this overpriced product to take a pass on them.
Last time you bought something, did you check if everyone involved was being treated fairly?
In this case that person is Tim Cook who has the Billions laying around he could do worse than properly investigate. Hell hire me. I can solve this problem. How hard is it to walk into a factory and look around for children; workers rioting; basic safety conditions. I don't as a "ethical" consumer do those things. I simply boycott Apple products. If you don't you are part of the problem.
Please. Apple makes BILLIONS in profit. You're simply trying to pass the buck. "It's not Apple's fault, they're a business!" Saying that they have to make a profit above any and all other considerations is bullshit.
Sorry, but people are going to pay attention to this kind of stuff, and they're going to ream Apple about it (though this kind of thing is not exclusive to Apple). That's the cost of doing business. Paying someone so low that it's pretty much slave labor isn't going to get you any gold medals.
It's not a binary "I did nothing" vs. "I checked every human involved at every stage". If you buy a cheap widget on eBay for next to nothing you wouldn't expect much, but if you paid a huge amount of a high end phone from a company that claims to care about this stuff you might be forgiven for thinking that they make at least some effort.
And yes, I do pay a bit more for stuff I know was manufactured in good conditions some times. It's often worth it because stuff made in countries like Japan and Germany is usually better quality. Actually you can get a lot of very cheap stuff, competitive with Chinese prices, from eastern Europe now, where EU worker's rights are in force. The fact that the goods can be delivered over land and tariff free helps them compete.
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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
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Steve Jobs!
Did I check? No, but I'm not a global company with billions of dollars and hundreds of capable employees. Apple certainly did check, they have (or had) boots on the ground in China doing so. They are fully aware, they've just decided it doesn't matter.
Despite not having the resources to check personally, when it's brought to my attention that there are such problems, I avoid contributing to them wherever possible. For example, by not buying Apple products.
Let's be frank: Apple is a luxury brand. They are not hurting for cash, and their profit margins are fatter than Rosie O'Donnell. They say "Pay", and America asks "How much this time, Daddy Cook? Is a thousand enough?" They have just as much pull with their suppliers, who are in competition for that huge Apple contract. They could easily go to their contractors and say: "Buy these guys some gloves and ear plugs, and we'll cut you an extra 15%." At the stroke of a pen, Apple could prevent these workers from going deaf. That option is not open to individual consumers. Apple wants to have all the power, but none of the responsibility. That is not what "capitalism" means. "Tyranny" is closer.
So they work under better conditions then you would at a Murray Energy Mine.
I simply boycott Apple products. If you don't you are part of the problem.
yeah, it's better if people in third world countries starve to death
Spoken like the greedy MBA trash that you are.
Do they really use vegan sugar, though?
#DeleteFacebook
Not using that as an excuse, but Apple also does NOT pay workers $2/hour. They're using manufacturers who pay their workers $2/hour. There's also the problem of talking about hourly rates in foreign countries in US dollars.
I know it doesn't change anything for the workers in the end, but let's assign the blame where it belongs. Twisting facts is not a good way to debate subjects.
#DeleteFacebook
Do you boycott 99% of all electronic products? Because they're almost ALL made in China.
#DeleteFacebook
Yeah, why have labor laws at all if someone is willing to kill themselves for a buck?
Seriously, you can't be this far up Ayn Rand's cunthole
Apple fits in nicely in China.
Seriously? That Chinese factory has better landscaping than my high school.
That Chinese cafeteria is far cleaner.
#FakeNews
They can ask of them to adhere to certain standards,
Actually, what they can do is contractually require the manufacturer to adhere to the standards.
but the fact is that everything costs money. That's capitalism at work.
Absolutely! Did you know that the vast majority (>95% last I checked) of money spent on making an iPhone goes toward electronic components? Assembly is like 3% of the cost to make an iPhone. Apple sells them for 5x the cost of making it, so doubling the cost of assembly would literally be less than $5.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
...Until is more fair?
It is not Apple's job to give everyone in the world the equivalent of an American middle-class lifestyle. $2 per hour is a fair wage in China, especially for an unskilled worker. It is not enough to afford an SUV and a four bedroom house with a white picket fence, but it is enough for a moped and a room in shared apartment, and with two adults working, and the grandparents providing childcare (normal in China), it is enough to support a family.
Don't shoot the company thats actually over there paying them. IF Apple voluntarily paid them more than it had to though, its management would be guilty of defrauding the shareholders, since they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect and maximize returns by negotiating the best possible deal.
Let me translate that from business-speak into English: "If you're a mere consumer and not a part-owner of Apple, you must not use the only tools available to you (i.e. buying someone else's product and telling the world why) to try to stop them making the world a shittier place."
Of all the players in this game, Apple is both the only one that we can persuade to make things better, and the one with the most power to change things because they have the power to dictate terms. It's not like the Chinese government or the Chinese companies would give a shit what we think.
Apple's hipster cred is the only thing keeping them in business, and on some level they know it.
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You know what they have in common? Building their economy on slave labor. California loves its illegal immigrants working cheap and Apple loves its slave labor camps it has outsourced its parts manufacturing.
Maybe because you didn't grow up there you pretentious fuck.
So you're one to say that basic safety equipment like earplugs and goggles are optional and if you die from working with toxic chemicals, it's your own damn fault?
Oh my lord you're sick.
Oh, they will say they do when the cameras and microphones are on, but, in the board room, they don't care...not really too many companies do or they would manufacture in other parts of the world. They know that labor is CHEAP in China, thanks to the communist control over its people, and their lives. No big deal for them to take you out and shoot you if you don't toe the line. All the companies doing business in China are doing nothing more than using slave labor. The people "live" in dorm rooms if they are lucky, work overtime constantly. Heck, remember a few years ago they had to put anti-suicide nets on some of the buildings because employees (slaves) were jumping off the buildings? The only time working conditions look "good" is when they invite the media in, and then it's all smiles and everything looks nice. It's a shame everyone gives Apple a pass on a lot of this, but, it's because they want the iPhone, Mac, iPad etc...and they look the other way.
Every consumer should be concerned about the effects of having their demands met. In order to preserve their appetite, people would rather not research the evils that take place to appease it. Those benefiting from people's appetite also wish to preserve it by deliberately hiding the evils that take place to appease it. Everybody except the mistreated workers are morally compromised (you could argue that overpopulation is a form of evil that took place in China). Apple is the middle-man that uses the desires of an ignorant group of people to fuel the suffering inflicted on another group of people.
Ignorance is what leads well-intentioned individuals to produce so much suffering in the world.
He didnâ(TM)t talk about that stuff at all. Go shave your hipster mustache.
That company should provide safety equipment and ensure a clean place to work. But that pay isnâ(TM)t the issue here. Thatâ(TM)s what waiters make before tips. Think about that.
Were any animals harmed? There are millions of vegans in the world, who ALWAYS think about animals when they buy products.
Quite a difference between hiring dirt cheap suppliers and cafeteria rice...which I doubt the workers get a break to eat anyway. Apple has so much cash that they struggle putting it somewhere. There is absolutely no need for Apple to continue business with companies that treat employees that badly. Of course, enslaving Chinese workers might just eek out that extra cent per part to make the already wildly obnoxious profit margin even bigger. So how far up does the responsibility go? Within Apple it goes all the way to the top. Sadly, Chinese workers lack the legal protections that are common in other places. So how far does the responsibility go? All the way to the side as well. Anyone buying Apple product is endorsing such labor practices!
Shit...... 50% of Americans don't visit the dentist because they can't afford it....lol
Are the American per capita income figures before or after their ruinous healthcare insurance and education costs ?
Did you write that polemic from within your google walled garden?
Parent said:
"IF Apple voluntarily paid them more than it had to though, its management would be guilty of defrauding the shareholders, since they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect and maximize returns by negotiating the best possible deal."
Complete bullshit. Please stop repeating this. This is a right wing myth.
But how far up the chain should Apple's responsibility go?
Absolutely no higher than the bonuses that rewarded these choices.
Would you work in a loud enough work place to develop headaches, hearing loss, etc plus be exposed to metal debris small enough to damage your lungs let alone cause eye damage? Who knows what the chemicals are on the liquids mention we're exactly.
Then do it for wages per day only the most desperate poor would consider.
Apple micromanages it's entire process so many esp top exec know fully how deplorable conditions are in it's supply chain.
Apple CEO just announced bin mainstream media it has over 600 Billion in overseas profits it would bring to US under new tax code is tax her now cheaper than any taxes owed overseas. So not like they can't afford better conditions in their factories.
Squints suspiciously at you...
I'm also originally from there. Where abouts in the valley are you from?
Just like folks export resource extraction like rare earth mining someplace else because it is dirty.
Just like German, and so I hear California shutting down nuclear power stations, but have zero problem buying the now deficient power from other places that produce it from nuclear power anyway.
It's basically just NIMBY at a global scale.
The insane part is walking around patting each other on the back like a job well done, when really they are just offloading whatever problem it is someplace else.