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The Flu and Airports (fastcompany.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The CDC says this year's flu season is on track to either rival or dethrone 2009's swine flu. 3,000 people across the U.S. have died as a result of the flu in the first 20 days of 2018, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, and that number has likely risen. If you want to avoid the flu (and of course you do) the National Institute of Health says orange juice won't cut it. Instead, the best flu prevention is a vaccine, and it's not too late to get one. Pair a flu shot with frequent hand washing, and avoiding touching your eyes, nose, or mouth so you don't transfer any virus from your hands, and you just might manage to avoid the flu.

119 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. I got a flu shot this season by cyberchondriac · · Score: 5, Informative

    But I'd heard that this year's vaccines had mostly missed the mark.
    It'd probably be more effective this year to wash your hands often, don't shake hands (I know, it's antisocial), and keep your hands away from your face.. or my face.

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    1. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      more likely to a brailed person-burger in a plane crash

      Grammatical misadventure.

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    2. Re:I got a flu shot this season by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Still even when the flue vaccine misses its mark, it still normally lessons the symptoms if you are to get the flu. It can be the difference between being out of work (feeling like crap) for a week vs being in the hospital for a week and out of work for an additional week.

      Having the flu before, I make a point to get a vaccine every year (normally in September when it first gets out) just so I can avoid as much of the pain and misery of having the flu as I can. If I get it, it may be a few days of misery vs a week.

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    3. Re:I got a flu shot this season by SirGarlon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Logic fail. Taking the vaccine doesn't prevent you from washing your hands, so arguing for hand-washing is not arguing against vaccine. A sensible person would do both.

      I have also heard that this year's vaccine is less effective than it should be. All medication is a trade-off between risks, side effects, and benefits, and this year the benefits are falling way short. If side effects or risks are normally something you have to think about, this is a year when you may want to think twice. But if you're blessed with the privilege of not normally having to worry about taking the vaccine, it is still, as they say, "worth a shot."

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    4. Re:I got a flu shot this season by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      more likely to a brailed person-burger in a plane crash

      Grammatical misadventure.

      Either that or the OP meant that you have a better chance of being a sailor that's into bondage and threesomes actually living your sexual fantasy on a plane that unfortunately crashes, than this years flu shot actually being effective.

    5. Re:I got a flu shot this season by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Still even when the flue vaccine misses its mark, it still normally lessons the symptoms if you are to get the flu. It can be the difference between being out of work (feeling like crap) for a week vs being in the hospital for a week and out of work for an additional week.

      Anecdote time.

      My wife, daughter, and I all got the flu shot. Unfortunately my wife and daughter also have some immune deficiency issues, which makes the vaccine less effective even in good years. This year both of them got the flu and were out sick about a week and a half. I caught it (or, at a minimum, something very much like it) midway through that period - but I was only down about three days, and never got as sick as they did.

      It's certainly possible my bug was not the same one, but the timing and symptoms lead me to believe it was the flu and the vaccine did help ameliorate my symptoms.

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    6. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I managed to catch the flu like 3 times around Sept-December

      So you were (sequentially) infected by all three different circulating strains of the influenza virus within the span of a few months - or you're one of those people who doesn't actually know the difference between colds and the flu?

    7. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not a trade off of risks. They have to guess what strains are likely to be the virulent ones this season (since they mutate so often). This year they guessed wrong, so only 30% of the strains going around are covered.

      Now 30% is much greater than 0%, but it's still a one-in-three shot.

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    8. Re:I got a flu shot this season by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Same - I managed to catch the flu like 3 times around Sept-December :(

      Highly unlikely. Quite a few people catch an URI/cold and call it the flu. But most of the time, it isn't influenza at all.

      That said, a flu shot is not the most effective prevention for a single individual. Where isolation is not possible, getting and surviving various strains of influenza is far more effective at boosting the immune system, for a longer period of time.

    9. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 2

      Similar story in my fully-immunized house, but I was the unlucky one. My wife and son both got sick, but barely. I got the full blown flu, but even so it was only a few days of high fever, aches and sleep, with a slight cough for a week after. It royally sucked, but was nowhere near as bad as I used to get annually before I started getting the shot.

    10. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      That said, a flu shot is not the most effective prevention for a single individual. Where isolation is not possible, getting and surviving various strains of influenza is far more effective at boosting the immune system, for a longer period of time.

      Technically, "getting influenza" should not count as a form of "preventing influenza".

      --
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    11. Re: I got a flu shot this season by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't exercise, ate poorly, and smoked a pack a day for 20 years. I hardly ever got sick either.

      There could quite possibly be a correlation there. If your habits made people shy away from you more than an average person, you would also be less likely to become infected.
      If everybody had halitosis, diseases would have a harder time spreading.

    12. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Xylantiel · · Score: 1

      Even if the vaccine doesn't prevent this flu, it makes it much less likely that you will die of it.

    13. Re:I got a flu shot this season by XXongo · · Score: 2

      Having the flu before, I make a point to get a vaccine every year (normally in September when it first gets out) just so I can avoid as much of the pain and misery of having the flu as I can. If I get it, it may be a few days of misery vs a week.

      And if you get Guillain-Barré from the flu vaccine, you will endure that misery for the rest of your life. Fuck that.

      I'll point out that Guillain-Barré syndrome is correlated with influenza-like illnesses, so if avoiding Guillain-Barré syndrome is your objective, you should get the flu shot, not avoid it.

    14. Re:I got a flu shot this season by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Technically, "getting influenza" should not count as a form of "preventing influenza".

      Why not? It helps prevent future infections better than a vaccine does.

      A downside is that if you have had a particular influenza strain and then get a vaccine for the same one, you likely will be sick for a couple of days, as the immune system response is triggered full on.

    15. Re:I got a flu shot this season by XXongo · · Score: 1

      It's not a trade off of risks. They have to guess what strains are likely to be the virulent ones this season (since they mutate so often). This year they guessed wrong, so only 30% of the strains going around are covered.

      That's the usual reason for the flu shot being less effective, but this year it actually turns out that they guessed right on the variant, but the H3N2 vaccine wasn't as effective expected-- the virus cultured for the antigens apparently had slightly mutated from the one in the wild.

    16. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      Technically, "getting influenza" should not count as a form of "preventing influenza".

      Why not? It helps prevent future infections better than a vaccine does.

      It's one of those "meaning of words" thing. Getting influenza means you didn't prevent it. Preventing influenza means you didn't get it.

      A downside is that if you have had a particular influenza strain and then get a vaccine for the same one, you likely will be sick for a couple of days, as the immune system response is triggered full on.

      The opposite. If you get an immunization for something you've already had (or you've already been immunized for), the immune system removes it pretty much instantly, and there's no effect at all.

      --
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    17. Re:I got a flu shot this season by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "The flue vaccine is only like 10% effective this year. "

      I like a 10% protection any day over 0%.

      I always buy my flu-shot for 15 bucks in the pharmacy and stick it in my ass.
      I really don't understand what the fuss is about.
      I could also get it for free but I would have to take an appointment at my doctor's and then have to wait for half an hour at least.
      It's just not worth the wait and the parking fee.

    18. Re:I got a flu shot this season by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Well, there's that at least. Also keeping something like Cold-eeze handy (zinc lozenge) to lessen some symptoms if they manifest. Saline nasal spray and/or nettie pot can help with the sinuses and by extension, that horrible drip and sore throat.
      I certainly didn't get sick from the vaccine (some people claim they do), and so far, no colds or flu this season, but it's not over yet.

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    19. Re:I got a flu shot this season by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Umm... thank you?

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    20. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Solandri · · Score: 1

      1 week is the average duration. I never bothered with the flu shot. Then one year I got the flu and was miserable and bedridden for 3 weeks, including 10 days of feeling like I'd been run over by a truck (literally - like all my muscles were torn and bruised), 3 days of alternating hot and cold flashes every 10-20 min (going from kicking off the blanket and taking off your shirt, to putting it all back on and throwing on an extra blanket for more warmth). I'm never gonna go through that again if I can avoid it. I get the flu shot every year now.

      If you've gotten the flu before but never got to the point where you wished you would just die, then you've been lucky so far. Get the flu shot.

    21. Re:I got a flu shot this season by bobbied · · Score: 1

      That's how this vaccine thing rolls with the Flu strains mutating out there. You take your best guess at the point it's time to start making vaccine which is months before the flu season actually starts and take your chances. If the viruses mutate too much or you guess wrong, the vaccine isn't as effective as it could be.

      But, in most cases the vaccine *does* help, even if it misses a bit, by sensitizing your immune system to a virus that is pretty close, which gets the full immune response started sooner and working harder because it already sensitized to the virus you end up getting. This ends up making the symptoms less intense and they go away faster.

      My personal story is that I've been getting the seasonal flu vaccine for at least the last 5 years. My immune compromised wife had it bad and was down for two weeks so I was very much exposed. I'm not sure if I actually had it or not because although I had a couple of days I felt kind of rough, I didn't ever have anything that made me think I was sick.

      Personal stories don't mean anything really, but my advice is the CDC's advice, get the vaccine, every year, unless you are otherwise in the small group that shouldn't take the vaccine.

      --
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    22. Re:I got a flu shot this season by mea_culpa · · Score: 1

      It's actually lower than 3% and probably within the margin of error. I still got mine but it still does suck that it isn't very effective. It isn't so much that they missed the mark, it's that this strain mutates faster than an effective vaccine can be created and distributed.

    23. Re:I got a flu shot this season by bobbied · · Score: 1

      And if you get Guillain-Barré from the flu vaccine, you will endure that misery for the rest of your life.

      You do realize that the chances of the vaccine causing this are reported to be literally 1 in a million people maybe more right? It seems to me that more than 1 in a million are dying from the flu this year. So even if the vaccine is marginally effective, it seems like the lessor of the risks to take the vaccine to me.

      Do what you want, but I'll follow the CDC's recommendations on this question...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    24. Re:I got a flu shot this season by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Same situation with me. Wife and son got mildly sick, I got hit harder; and that's even after I got immunized a month ago. In my case, it wasn't the flu, it was the day after where I felt great, then I quickly got pneumonia leaving me to hack up yellow and green globules of crap.

      No the flu. It's always the pneumonia that strikes right after that's a killer.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    25. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Agent0013 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Perhaps you should read up on how the flu vaccine will make you more likely to contract other strains of the flu. The swine flu was particularly boosted by people who had gotten previous flu shots in the years previously. Not sure how that helps you avoid the flu if it is actually helping you get it instead.

      Better is the up your intake of vitamin D. If you are low on your vitamin D, as most people are, it will reduce your chances of getting the flu by 80 or 90%. It will also help against things like lupis and other autoimmune diseases. If your vitamin D levels are where they should be it will still help you avoid the flu by at least as much and the vaccine does. So skip the vaccine and the problems it can cause for something more effective.

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    26. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      The people dying are not dying from the flu. It is actually sepsis that is causing the high numbers of deaths this year. It can have similar symptoms to the flu and hospitals are not used to looking for it. But that will not promote people to get used to shooting things into their veins, so that is not the story you hear about.

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      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    27. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was referring to people who contracted Guillain-Barré from the flu vaccine

      And it appears there's just as much risk, or more, of getting Guillain-Barre from a flu infection, and much greater chance for other really bad outcomes.

      Your conclusion is not logically defensible. The safer choice is to get the vaccine. I wonder if a lot of people are uncomfortable trading a small risk for a smaller risk, i.e. actively doing something with a small risk (vaccine) to avoid a possible larger risk (infection).

      So maybe we should talk about your ability to asses risk? Me thinks you have a bit of a problem...

    28. Re: I got a flu shot this season by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Besides the flu shot, my strategy is washing my hands constantly, never shaking another person's hand, staying away from groups of people, and staying as healthy as I can. I'm lucky that I don't work around many people. When I'm actually working I'm alone and I live by myself. Hard to catch a virus if you're rarely exposed to it.

      I've had flu three times in my life (diagnosed as influenza) and I hope to never have it again. When it hits you, you know it. It's not like a cold or an upper respiratory infection. It will knock you down hard.

    29. Re:I got a flu shot this season by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately my wife and daughter also have some immune deficiency issues, which makes the vaccine less effective even in good years.

      I've had both flu and pneumonia vaccines, and failed to develop antibodies to both. IVIG (antibody infusions) are the next step.

    30. Re:I got a flu shot this season by dmr001 · · Score: 1

      Do you have any citations for this? Given the antigenic shift in the viral protein coat of influenza viruses, I'm not aware of evidence that past infections prevent future infection. It looks like there is evidence that natural immunity prevents infection from that same strain, but it doesn't look like there's evidence it provides you with much infection to inevitably drifting isotypes.

    31. Re:I got a flu shot this season by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      it still normally lessons the symptoms

      "Lessens". Autocomplete is NOT your friend. Or literacy dislikes you. Whichever.

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    32. Re:I got a flu shot this season by kqs · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you should read up on how the flu vaccine will make you more likely to contract other strains of the flu. The swine flu was particularly boosted by people who had gotten previous flu shots in the years previously. Not sure how that helps you avoid the flu if it is actually helping you get it instead.

      Citation needed from a reputable source,

      Since the immune system is exposed to many thousands of attackers and develops defenses against most of those, it seems odd that defenses against one flu would make you more likely to get another flu than someone who had no flu defenses at all. That sounds like something that anti-vaxxers make up to convince gullible people that vaccines are bad, and some quick google searching didn't turn anything up, but I'm willing to be convinced by evidence.

    33. Re:I got a flu shot this season by kqs · · Score: 2

      The people dying are not dying from the flu. It is actually sepsis that is causing the high numbers of deaths this year.

      You are correct. People are dying from sepsis, which caused by infection. For most of these people that infection is the flu or pneumonia (caused by the flu).

      So if you have the flu vaccine you have a lower chance of getting the flu and thus a lower chance of sepsis. Are you implying something different?

    34. Re:I got a flu shot this season by dpidcoe · · Score: 2

      The opposite. If you get an immunization for something you've already had (or you've already been immunized for), the immune system removes it pretty much instantly, and there's no effect at all.

      It'll remove the virus fast, yes. But the virus contained in the vaccine is by definition basically harmless. I'm no expert, but I know that a lot of the symptoms from being sick (e.g. fever) aren't from the virus so much as side effects of your body attempting to fight the virus (e.g. white blood cells are significantly more efficient a few degrees past standard body temperature). With this logic, it would make sense that an immune system over-responding to an inert virus could make you feel "sick" for a few days.

    35. Re:I got a flu shot this season by bobbied · · Score: 2

      The people dying are not dying from the flu. It is actually sepsis that is causing the high numbers of deaths this year.

      No, they are dying from illnesses which are CAUSED by the Flu... Sepsis which is caused by the flu it's NOT the flu, so if it kills you it wasn't the flu, but sepsis. But hey, it's a distinction without a difference if you ask me. If they had avoided the flu in the first place, they'd not be dead today.

      By the way.. Sepsis IS a known issue and we know how to treat it. The issue is that you have to start treatments in time, which means you have to recognize that you are more ill than just having the flu and get medical help, before it's too late. Apparently people are getting sicker faster this year and some waited too long.

      --
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    36. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Never had a flu shot since I can remember, never had the flu.

    37. Re:I got a flu shot this season by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      I get it for free, and just walk to the doctor.

      How do you get the vaccine in your ASS??

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    38. Re: I got a flu shot this season by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      So you're the bubble boy?

    39. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Rande · · Score: 2

      You're an asymptomatic carrier? You're the one spreading it everywhere without realising it?

    40. Re:I got a flu shot this season by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      But I'd heard that this year's vaccines had mostly missed the mark.
      It'd probably be more effective this year to wash your hands often, don't shake hands (I know, it's antisocial), and keep your hands away from your face.. or my face.

      Each vaccine typically has about 3-5 strains of deactivated flu viruses (virii?) in it, and since production starts before fall, the manufacturers have to check with the CDC and others for their estimates on what strains will likely to be especially virulent. (A strain is of the form HxNy, where X is from 1-5 and y from 1-8, I believe, and refers to the two major proteins on the capsule, there are many substrains because there are more proteins on the capsule too, but those are the big ones that generally dictate what kind of flu it is).

      So it's generally a guess. Sometimes you get lucky and the active flu strains are what you vaccinated for. Other times, you miss and the big ones aren't covered. Either way though, you can still be hit with a flu strain that is different from what everyone else gets (aren't you special?).

      The best ways is to basically not touch wounds or mucus membrane surfaces - eyes, nose and such with your hands, and wash with soap and water (more than adequate - antibacterials do not work on viruses) often. Shaking hands can be replaced by fist-bumps (much more sanitary) if everyone is casual enough, though the elbow bump is for the more adventurous. Just wash your hands afterwards.

      I used to get sick a lot, then I realized it was because I rubbed my eyes, and if I just washed my hands before doing it, I cut down my infection rate significantly. (This is including colds and minor infections too). Rubbing eyes is the best way to transfer viruses from your hands into your body where it infects you.

    41. Re: I got a flu shot this season by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      My grandpa also hardly ever got sick. Until the lung cancer. Fortunately that didn't kill him. The heart attack he got for his sins took him out first.

      I'll happily take a few sick days a year over horrible general health and early death.

    42. Re:I got a flu shot this season by houghi · · Score: 1

      I get them free at work. They send an email fo all. People who want it say they want it. You get a day and hour, go to that meeting room. In and out in 5 minutes or so. Company covers the cost.
      Yes, it is optional. No, they do not trace who goes and does not go. If they would do that, the Unions would be killing them and the law would cut up the rest. (Unions, not trade guilds. Living in Belgium)

      --
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    43. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      The opposite. If you get an immunization for something you've already had (or you've already been immunized for), the immune system removes it pretty much instantly, and there's no effect at all.

      It'll remove the virus fast, yes. But the virus contained in the vaccine is by definition basically harmless. I'm no expert, but I know that a lot of the symptoms from being sick (e.g. fever) aren't from the virus so much as side effects of your body attempting to fight the virus (e.g. white blood cells are significantly more efficient a few degrees past standard body temperature). With this logic, it would make sense that an immune system over-responding to an inert virus could make you feel "sick" for a few days.

      It might "make sense," but turns out that when the immune system is already sensitized to the virus, it just takes it out with no real fuss. When you get the immune response to the virus, that means the immune system hasn't seen the virus before.

      --
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    44. Re:I got a flu shot this season by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Maybe more likely to contract some strain other than the ones that were in the vaccine? (If the vaccine works perfectly then the likelihood of contracting one of the constituents of the vaccine would be zero, so if you catch something it would have to be something that wasn't in there.)

  2. Not going to work by ranton · · Score: 3

    Not going to work when you have the flu would also be helpful, but probably even the CDC understands that is not a reasonable recommendation.

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    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    1. Re:Not going to work by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not reasonable when your employers are greedy bastards, that is. Paid sick or better yet personal days should be the norm.

    2. Re:Not going to work by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Paid sick or better yet personal days should be the norm.

      Most full-time employees have a number of hours PTO they can take; at least in the professional world, this is the case....

    3. Re:Not going to work by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      People could wear those face masks when they're sick, Asian-style. Then they can still go to work/school while ill without infecting others. That would require a cultural shift that Western society is just not ready for, though (You mean, I gotta keep my germs to myself? WTF is this bullshit?).

    4. Re:Not going to work by ranton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Paid sick or better yet personal days should be the norm.

      Most full-time employees have a number of hours PTO they can take; at least in the professional world, this is the case....

      The problem is many employers now lump sick days and vacation together into the same pool. This causes people to not want to use PTO for sick days since it cuts into their vacation. There really is no good fix for this other than employers trusting their employees, which would allow for unlimited sick days (or at least unlimited until short term disability is more appropriate).

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    5. Re:Not going to work by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Or there is the lucky few of us that work from home, and don't need to regularly visit the public petri dish known as an "office", which is only slightly behind schools and airports in their ability to communicate airborne diseases.

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    6. Re:Not going to work by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Or they could cover their god damn mouth / nose when they sneeze in public places, and wash their hands with soap.

      I can't believe people still can't grasp these simple concepts.

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    7. Re:Not going to work by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      There are a growing number of office jobs where a total of 2-3 weeks is the norm, and that includes vacation, personal, and sick time. I don't have one of those jobs because I can get better offers easily, but there will always people who can only get the baseline.

      Two weeks per year (so, ten paid days) is too little---especially for people with children. There should be at least 5-10 days for personal illness or caring for a close family member. Discipline or fire people for misusing that time if necessary, but it needs to be there.

      Plus, if sick people stay home like they should for their own health, they're less likely to infect their colleagues. This goes double for people with the disease factories known as children.

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    8. Re:Not going to work by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Water alone does just as much for removing germs as soap does.
      Soap merely makes it easy to remove shit like grease that isn't normally water soluble.

    9. Re:Not going to work by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why flu vaccines are promoted widely, but no mention is ever made of wearing surgical masks.

      The masks work both ways, but a vaccinated person with the flu will still spread the flu.

    10. Re:Not going to work by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why flu vaccines are promoted widely, but no mention is ever made of wearing surgical masks.

      The masks work both ways, but a vaccinated person with the flu will still spread the flu.

      Sure, but chances are the vaccinated person will be contagious for a much shorter time.

      The issue with masks is a cultural one. People look at you like you have the plague or something if you go around in public wearing one, I know because I've done this to avoid infecting others or catching stuff from others. You get some strange looks like "Am I going to get cancer from you or something?"

      Maybe some PSA's from the CDC that push vaccines, hygiene and masks to combat the flu are in order? I'm sure some catchy jingle would go miles here. Yea, I'm dreaming, I know.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:Not going to work by ranton · · Score: 1

      It appears that 43% of companies (and 51% of private companies) offer PTO as opposed to vacation / sick time in 2016. source

      Considering 23% of employees are offered no paid time off, it appears the majority of workers with that benefit have their vacation and sick days combined.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    12. Re:Not going to work by swb · · Score: 1

      I thought the switch from split sick/vacation to pooled PTO was about the opposite incentive structure -- let people who don't get sick have "extra" vacation time.

      The last place I worked switched from sick & vacation to all PTO and while the cumulative number of days went down, (15 vacation + 6 sick to 19 PTO) you could potentially have more vacation time.

      The purported rationale was to prevent "abuse" of sick time by making it legitimately usable and give it to employees as vacation time anyway. I'm not sure they were data driven enough to see if most sick days got burned in December when they expired or whether they got used throughout the year. I think they *hoped* it would just end some amount of unscheduled absenteeism by discouraging people from taking unplanned days off, since they weren't "free".

      I think the unplanned side effect, though, was a crush of people burning PTO time in December as they had saved some of it.

    13. Re:Not going to work by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      If you were walking down the street and saw a guy wearing a gas mask wouldn't you wonder what he knew that you didn't? That's how I'm treated when wearing a sterile surgical mask on the street here in the US. The mask is to protect everybody, but assumptions are more powerful than rational thought.

    14. Re:Not going to work by ranton · · Score: 1

      I thought the switch from split sick/vacation to pooled PTO was about the opposite incentive structure -- let people who don't get sick have "extra" vacation time.

      That was how it has been marketed, and it sounds good. It just doesn't work out that way when implemented. The reality is closer to your later comments:

      I think they *hoped* it would just end some amount of unscheduled absenteeism by discouraging people from taking unplanned days off, since they weren't "free".

      Bingo. The real reason here is to limit the total number of days off. This is deemed easier than actually identifying people who abuse sick days. But unfortunately the opposite happens, where more people actually do get sick because less people are taking time off when sick, and the company loses more productivity. On top of that people lose more vacation time, and become less productive because of that as well. It was a decent if not poorly thought through idea which we now have data to show doesn't work.

      But bean counters who only look at total hours employees sit at their desks will not notice any of these issues. And their bosses who determine if the initiative is a success will have an incorrect perception of its effectiveness.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    15. Re:Not going to work by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      but probably even the CDC understands

      Well, let's see. Trump's appointee for head of the CDC had to resign when she was caught trading in tobacco stocks. Trump's first Secretary of Health and Human Services had to resign over his use of private and military aircraft, and his current appointee is a lobbyist for Big Pharma and he's been on the job for less than two weeks.

      So basically, when it comes to fighting a serious flu outbreak, nobody's in charge, which should surprise no one.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:Not going to work by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      People could wear those face masks when they're sick, Asian-style. Then they can still go to work/school while ill without infecting others. That would require a cultural shift that Western society is just not ready for, though (You mean, I gotta keep my germs to myself? WTF is this bullshit?).

      I've heard that unless you have some pretty high-end face masks, they don't last that long. Certainly not a whole day. Something about the moisture from the breath reducing the effectiveness of the filter over the hours. You'll see people in Asian countries use them, but like with most home or traditional remedies they could be totally ineffective.

    17. Re:Not going to work by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Time to move countries then?
      Perhaps to one that legislates minimum required employee rights, like separate paid leave entitlements, bereavement leave, sick leave, public holidays, days in lieu, overtime, etc.
      USA is quite well known for shitting on the little guy. The only thing that differs among states is the amount and stench of the shit.

    18. Re:Not going to work by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      They get kindof icky after a while anyway (humidity from breathing in them) so I changed them out a few times a day while ill in Asia. No idea if the locals did the same, I'd imagine they would. They come like 10 to a pack, and unless you plan to be sick for 10 days there's no point in being stingy with them...

    19. Re:Not going to work by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Seems like a better way to prevent abuse of sick days would be to let people cash out unused sick days at the end of each year for equivalent days of pay.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    20. Re:Not going to work by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      but probably even the CDC understands that is not a reasonable recommendation

      Why not? Every first world country mandates paid sick leave. Sometime the USA should join the first world too.

    21. Re:Not going to work by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The problem is many employers now lump sick days and vacation together into the same pool.

      This is illegal in most of the west.

    22. Re:Not going to work by swb · · Score: 1

      I think companies hate that because it inflates their compensation costs -- if you have 100 employees with an average of 2 days unused sick time, now you have 200 days of extra wages to pay, probably close to a mid-level annual FTE paycheck, plus all the accounting headaches.

      I know they also hate the accounting costs of carried vacation which is why use it or lose it is quite often the policy, but it also seems to solve so many problems with sick/vacation day policies and the unexpected outcomes their weird incentives have.

    23. Re:Not going to work by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Not reasonable when your employers are greedy bastards, that is. Paid sick or better yet personal days should be the norm.

      It is in most western countries. We've long since recognised that workers aren't chattel and that making them work whilst sick not only results in bad work, but also in making the other serfs unwell.

      We've also got at least 4 weeks of personal leave and usually 2 more weeks of public holidays I've got an additional 4 days personal and 6 days paid leave whilst the company shuts down over Christmas, basically 8 weeks leave (although I can only choose when 5 of them are).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    24. Re:Not going to work by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Forget that. If work policy encourages me to come in while sick, then I am going to infect as many people as possible because that is not considered a negative externality. If it was, then they would not encourage it. If work does not care, then I do not care either. Why should I have a different standard than work?

    25. Re:Not going to work by Agripa · · Score: 1

      If you were walking down the street and saw a guy wearing a gas mask wouldn't you wonder what he knew that you didn't? That's how I'm treated when wearing a sterile surgical mask on the street here in the US. The mask is to protect everybody, but assumptions are more powerful than rational thought.

      I have no doubt wearing a mask in public would provide probable cause or reasonable suspicion to law enforcement. No thanks, I have already been shot enough.

  3. Time off for illness by bit+trollent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In most of the US there are no paid sick days for restaurant workers.

    So when you are drinking your soda and eating your sandwich, ask yourself if the sandwich maker could afford to take a sick day.

    Is America a truly modern country without universal healthcare or paid time off for illness?

    1. Re:Time off for illness by DaveyJJ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Huh? Canuck here. Sick at home Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday last week. Slacked my co-workers (not even head office) said, "Sick, staying home" ... response was "Okay, great." I get 10 sick days and 10 personal health days off, none of which I need any documentation for. I also worked nearly a decade in the US and was docked pay (and verbally berated) for taking a measly three days off after my second son was born and my wife wasn't mobile. I call BS, AC.

      --
      DaveyJJ
    2. Re:Time off for illness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "American decline: Open pools of raw sewage in the richest country in the world"

      If we judged countries by how they treated the richest then plenty of countries in Africa and south America would look pretty nice. Heck, North Korea isn't that bad if you are on top.

      That is why we judge countries by how they treat the poorest.

    3. Re:Time off for illness by Solandri · · Score: 2

      The influenza death rate is lower in the U.S. than in many countries with universal health care and paid time off for illness. And the difference in the rate between it and many better countries (France, Germany, Canada) is so small as to be statistically insignificant.

      So either paid sick days just don't matter that much to the spread rate of influenza, or the health care system takes care of it just fine despite not being universal, or both.

    4. Re:Time off for illness by virtig01 · · Score: 1

      In most of the US there are no paid sick days for restaurant workers.

      I think you mean no federal government mandated requirement for paid sick days. That doesn't mean restaurants are full of sick workers.

      1. Some restaurants do provide paid sick days as a benefit (TGI Friday, Five Guys, In-N-Out).

      2. Workers covering much of the US population are required to have sick time by state and local regulations: CA, CT, MA, OR, VT, AZ, WA, RI, MD, DC, NYC.

      3. No paid time off != working while sick. When I was an hourly worker, I didn't have any PTO. But I did have lots of scheduling flexibility, since there were always coworkers looking to pickup extra hours. In fact, management -- not wanting a contagious worker around healthy workers -- would assist in schedule swapping. Sick person stays home, fewer germs in the office, all the work still gets done.

    5. Re:Time off for illness by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Canada varies by state, but nearly every state has a legally mandated sick leave scheme which requires no evidence from the employee to use.

      So you're either bullshitting, or you have some incredibly unlucky Canadian friends. Unlike the USA where sickleave has nothing to do with luck but great privilege.

    6. Re:Time off for illness by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Huh? Canuck here. Sick at home Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday last week. Slacked my co-workers (not even head office) said, "Sick, staying home" ... response was "Okay, great." I get 10 sick days and 10 personal health days off, none of which I need any documentation for. I also worked nearly a decade in the US and was docked pay (and verbally berated) for taking a measly three days off after my second son was born and my wife wasn't mobile. I call BS, AC.

      To be fair, a lot of menial labour jobs like making sandwiches or working in fast food are casual in most western countries (zero hour contracts). This means they dont get the protection of paid sick leave, not sure about Canukistan but certainly in the UK and Australia so I'd be surprised if it's much different. At least in Australia I know you get paid extra loading in exchange for not getting paid leave (about an extra 25% per hour). Here in the UK, we dont get a set number of sick days, but you can only self certify for 1 before needing a doctors note. In Oz, it was the same as Canada, 10 days paid sick leave.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    7. Re:Time off for illness by houghi · · Score: 1

      Living in Belgium. Sick days are not know before you get sick. The first month you will get full pay. After that it will go down to first 80% and later to minimum wage, I think. Some companies have extra insurance for you where you will get more. Some even that you get full pay.

      So in a way all sick days are paid sick days. Friend of mine is now at home for 3 or so months.

      If I am sick, I go to a doctor who will have to write a note from when till when I will not be able to work and if I can leave the house or not. This can be for one day or for a long period, depending on the situation and job you do as well as how you get to work.

      The company has the right to send a control doctor to see if you are actually sick. The company will just get an OK or NOK, not what the illness is. You are obviously in your right if you tell them, but they can not force you to.

      Is this abused? Sure it is abuse by people who are willing to abuse it. THere will always be people to abuse anything. This is a minority and people can still get fired if they are sick. If they are found out, which obviously also happens, they will lose their job, have no unemployment benefits, so no income and good luck on finding a job after that. Oh, they also have to pay back everything.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:Time off for illness by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      From what I've read not only do restaurant workers not get paid sick days but they typically will be penalized or fired for being absent. So, yeah, you probably get a serving of the contagious disease of the day with every meal. Ask for it "well done".

    9. Re:Time off for illness by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Um, the US is in much the same demographic boat, but we get more immigrants and that masks the effects.

      Moreover, if per capita health care in the US cost only as much as the second highest per capita cost in the world, we'd save over nine hundred billion dollars a year. That's the whole F-35 project paid off in less than two years.

      Particularly with the Republicans in charge, US debt is mounting up fast.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Best prevention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The flu vaccine is estimated to be 10-15% effective this year, and as we get further into the flu season the strains not covered by the vaccine will become the most prevalent. So getting the vaccine now is almost like depending on homeopathic medicine or the placebo effect to stay healthy.

    On the other hand, frequent hand washing and avoiding touching your eyes, nose, and mouth will always make a substantial improvement in your chances of avoiding the flu regardless of the strains that are spreading. Having the proper amounts of vitamins C & D probably gives better protection than this year's flu vaccine. Some years the vaccine is much better, but this isn't one of them.

  5. Why not both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I get the Northern Hemisphere and the Southern Hemisphere vaccines since I spend a lot of time on planes and in airports. That and benzalkonium chloride hand sanitizer have kept me flu free all winter.

    Northern
    an A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
    an A/Hong Kong/4801/2014 (H3N2)-like virus; and
    a B/Brisbane/60/2008-like virus

    Southern
    an A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
    an A/Singapore/INFIMH-16-0019/2016 (H3N2)-like virus; and
    a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus.

  6. Handshaking by ichthus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Handshaking. We MUST get rid of this stupid form of greeting. I'm what's commonly referred to as a germaphobe -- I hate touching the hand rails at Disneyland, or the TV remote in a hotel room. (EXTRA CREDIT: The sponge in the sink at work) And, just as loathsome is touching the hand of someone that I haven't just witnessed washing his or her hands.

    If we stopped shaking hands, this would go a long way toward stemming the spread of sickness. Hey, Mythbusters confirmed it.

    --
    sig: sauer
    1. Re:Handshaking by jimcooncat · · Score: 1

      I'll do the occasional handshake, but I don't shake hands when I go to vote. Our politicians line an intimidating gauntlet and shake the hand of every snot-nosed constituent. What a stupid tradition as well as a public health hazard.

    2. Re:Handshaking by b0bby · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, lots of us touch railings and shake people's hands regularly, and yet we don't get sick all that often really. You may actually want to look into some treatment - I know some people with germophobia and it has had a detrimental effect on their quality of life.

    3. Re:Handshaking by ichthus · · Score: 1

      You may actually want to look into some treatment

      If it ever became debilitating, I would consider this. But, as you stated, many people live life germ-agnostic. I'm aware of this and, as such, am able to conscientiously suppress my germaphobic tendencies. I still shake hands, touch the gas pump handle, and push the cart at the grocery store. But, after doing these things, I have a mental... flag that's set, with the imperative that I need to wash my hands at the earliest convenience. Until that flag is cleared, I won't touch my face or food.

      --
      sig: sauer
    4. Re: Handshaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We call people like you a wussy.

    5. Re:Handshaking by ichthus · · Score: 1

      The flu can't hold a fucking candle to STDs.

      Quite literally, I would suspect.

      --
      sig: sauer
    6. Re:Handshaking by b0bby · · Score: 1

      That's not like the people I know, that's pretty much just good sense! ;)

    7. Re:Handshaking by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Last time I had the flu, there were certain activities I didn't even think of trying.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. Often the "flu" is not the flu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are a large number of viruses out there that cause flu-like symptoms that are not actually the flu. The flu vaccine will never protect you from any of these other viruses. So regardless of whether or not you get the flu vaccine it is best to avoid sick people and take other precautions such as proper sanitation.

    1. Re:Often the "flu" is not the flu by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Yes - it's so annoying when people say they have the flu when it's just a common cold. Our 5 year old had a fever for around 36 hours then was back to normal. Likely not the flu.

      That being said, my wife is just now back on her feet after spending 5 days in bed fighting influenza a (doctor confirmed). She got a flu shot and is almost militant about washing hands.

      Of course now that she's feeling better.. I'm starting to feel a little worn down, I hope it's only a case of the Mondays.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  8. Either TFS or the Headline sucks. by sconeu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no mention of airports in TFS.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Either TFS or the Headline sucks. by toonces33 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is in the article however, and they said that the dirtiest place in the airport are the self-ticketing kiosks. But I have known this for years - especially at Christmas time people drag their runny-nosed little brats onto airplanes, and due to the holidays people can't or won't cancel or postpone. I have even seen adults with runny noses going through the airports that time of year, so it isn't just the kids.

      So the key is to use "best practices" going through airports. Wash your hands often, especially after touching things, use the hand-sanitizing stations if they are available, and make sure to avoid touching your face and especially rubbing your eyes.

    2. Re:Either TFS or the Headline sucks. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Face masks are actually great for this. It's debatable how much protection they give against airborne viruses, but they are pretty good at stopping you from touching your face.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Either TFS or the Headline sucks. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm sure it's in TFA. However, you would *THINK* that TFS would have some relevance to the *HEADLINE*

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:Either TFS or the Headline sucks. by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      But I have known this for years - especially at Christmas time people drag their runny-nosed little brats onto airplanes, and due to the holidays people can't or won't cancel or postpone. I have even seen adults with runny noses going through the airports that time of year, so it isn't just the kids.

      It's almost as if people will not cancel longstanding travel plans for your comfort or convenience.

      I suggest that you avoid traveling at that time if it so concerns you.

  9. risk of plane crash is low by XXongo · · Score: 2
    I can't figure out the grammar on that sentence either.

    However, for comparison, the accident rate on commercial airliners is about one in fifteen million take-offs-- with a measured rate of zero for last year-- so if he's comparing it to the risk in a plane crash, that risk is pretty much negligible.

    The flu shot, as it turns out was of low efficacy this year. Having had the flu, however, I will take the minor pain in the arm to reduce my chance of getting it by 10%.

  10. An Excellent Medicine, No Need for Injection by letthelightin · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Garlic. Raw, well-chewed garlic. Has compounds with anti-viral, anti-fungal, and antibacterial properties. Cures and protects from the common cold.

    Check out the science behind it.

    https://www.healthline.com/nut...

    1. Re:An Excellent Medicine, No Need for Injection by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Bullshit. There is no cure for the common cold.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:An Excellent Medicine, No Need for Injection by kqs · · Score: 1

      No need for either/or: get the shot and eat garlic.

      Though I have doubts about the health benefits of garlic, I do love garlic (roasted and spread on bread as excellent!) If it were actually good at reducing blood pressure than I would be taking a lot less daily medicine.

    3. Re:An Excellent Medicine, No Need for Injection by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Eating garlic regularly should help you avoid colds, since it would probably lead to people keeping further away from you.

      Eating dog poop would probably be even more effective in that regard.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  11. Where are the wet wipe dispensers? by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    I got the flu soon after a medical test at a doctor's office building. This is not a surprise as sick people were coming and going all day long. What surprised me after the fact was the lack of basic measures to stop the spread of disease at a medical facility.

    The local Walmart has a plastic tub with wet wipes near the grocery baskets. This seems like common sense to reduce the chance of spreading germs especially in places where lots of people are congregating. But I don't see something similar at the entrances/exits of other high trafficked facilities. It seems they would easily pay for themselves in a reduced infection rate.

    1. Re:Where are the wet wipe dispensers? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Did anyone else read the subject line of schwit1's post in Cleavon Little's voice (from Blazing Saddles)?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Where are the wet wipe dispensers? by plloi · · Score: 1

      To be fair that plastic tub of wipes is fairly new to the walmart entrances. It was added when tests found out what was on the shopping cart handles, and it was mostly feces.

    3. Re:Where are the wet wipe dispensers? by suutar · · Score: 1

      I hadn't, but now that you mention it... :)

  12. Re:Latex ... by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    I've been on /. too long. I read this a LaTeX and GIMP.

  13. I'm confused by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    How does getting a flu shot with a protein shell sequence of X ( which is how your bodies immune system knows what it is ) do anything for a mutated strain that has a shell sequence of Y ?

    It's like an anti-virus program looking for a checksum of X ( Holy Shit! A virus ! SMASH ) while it lets the mutated version with a checksum of Y right in the door with a VIP pass.

    Your body doesn't even KNOW it's a problem until it's kicking your ass.

    Now if you get a Strain X shot today and Strain X happens to be the flavor going around a few years down the road, I can understand how it helps protect you as you already have the antibodies present for that particular sequence. But if it mutates at all, you're back to square one so I'm curious how it helps to " lessen the symptoms " since the body has to wait until the virus is in full blown payload delivery mode to mount any sort of defense against it.

    You medical types should remember we don't speak Pharmacology or Micro-Biology lingo, so explain it like us non-medical types can understand it.

    1. Re:I'm confused by suutar · · Score: 1

      Virus signatures, both physical and virtual, are not just single values. Your shot is for WXYZ; if you run into WXAB you'll still get a bit of response, and hence a bit of head start on fixing it. (4 is probably still not the right number of letters, but you get the idea.)

    2. Re:I'm confused by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Medical experts look at what they think will be a problem for the year.
      Different strains are selected for a nations anti-virus program depending on a nations medical skill and what they want to pay for that year e.g. the trivalent.
      For a given heath budget per person nations have to consider spending on the best anti-virus program they think they can pay for and will give good cover that year.
      i.e. is the quadrivalent now cost-effective given the numbers of people needing hospitalization.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  14. UVC Light Kills Flu (and not us?) by trenobus · · Score: 1

    Could ultraviolet lamps slow the spread of flu?

    This could make a big difference if it proves safe.

  15. This year's flu is an A/H3N2 strain. by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is a strain known for producing severe flu cases and sometimes-fatal secondary complications.

    There is evidence that in past A/H3N2 outbreaks, people who contracted the flu despite being vaccinated had less severe symptoms and fewer complications. Even if the vaccine is only "10% effective" at preventing infection, the evidence still suggests that it's worth getting, especially as this flu is claiming the lives of many young, healthy people.

    IMPORTANT: the "10%" figure was an early estimate from Australia in December. More recent figures I've heard are 17% effectiveness and 30% effectiveness in the US.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  16. Might not have been the flu by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 2

    I just got through reading an online reference saying that the second round of flu-like symptoms likely isn't flu but rather pneumonia.

    If you get the flu, and then seem to get a "relapse" within a week or two, go see a doctor to get evaluated for pneumonia. Pneumonia symptoms are close to those of the flu.

    Reference:
    https://www.texasmedclinic.com...

    --PM

  17. Flu mortality by edi_guy · · Score: 1

    The CDC chart of mortality for flu is pretty much as you expect (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf)

    Inflection point upwards at the 65-74 age bracket then straight up as you age further. Interestingly even little kids 1 - 14 seem to be in great shape in this regards. Would have thought the bodies defenses would take time to build up, peaking at say 25 y.o. But the little 1-14 y.o.'s are apparently quite resilient.

  18. Not bacteria by MiskatonicAcademic · · Score: 1

    The flu is caused by a virus, but the article builds on a study on bacteria and fungi in airports. Pretty weak connection to the flu.

  19. Re:3000 ppl in us died from flu by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

    A not poor woman in my neighborhood died a week ago from complications of the flu. First she was treated in a local hospital, then taken by ambulance to a major hospital of the highest quality. It was neither prejudice nor poverty that did her in, just misfortune and a nasty disease.

    So take your leftist anti-US bias and shove it.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  20. Modern reseach by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    "Large" doses of vitamin D - 5000 IU/day or more - is fairly effective at preventing the flu. Given that this year's flu vaccine isn't very effective, vitamin D is a superior choice and brings other health benefits. If you're really worried about contracting the flu, use both.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  21. Re:3000 ppl in us died from flu by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Either the hospitalization did nothing, or the poor and uninsured are going to die in larger numbers than those of us who are better off.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes