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GPU Prices Soar as Bitcoin Miners Buy Up Hardware To Build Rigs (computerworld.com)

"Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency miners have created a dearth of mid-range and high-end GPU cards that are selling for twice as much as suggested retail," reports Computerworld. "The reason: miners are setting up server farms with the cards." Lucas123 writes: GPU prices have more than doubled in some cases... Some of the most popular GPUs can't even be found anymore as they've sold out due to demand. Meanwhile, some retailers are pushing back against bitcoin miners by showing favoritism to their traditional gamer customers, allowing them to purchase GPUs at manufacturer's suggested retail price. Earlier this year, NVIDIA asked retailers of its hardware to prioritize sales to gamers over cryptocurrency miners.

157 comments

  1. so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should just sell the same gamer class gpus without video ports at half price to the idiot miners.

    1. Re:so fucking stupid by darkain · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check the nVidia roadmap, this is exactly what they're working on this year.

    2. Re: so fucking stupid by negRo_slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They won't buy them cuz then they'd have zero resale value after the card is no longer powerful enough to mine. Selling used cards to gamers gets at least a few bucks back.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    3. Re:so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't believe you've thought this through. There is a finite supply of GPUs that can be made by these multi-billion dollar foundries in any given period. Reducing the cost of cards used by miners (no video ports, etc.) will just enable miners to buy more cards and grab a bigger chunk of the GPU supply. Reducing the cost of cards that miners want isn't going to increase the supply of cards that gamers want; ultimately they're all coming from the same source of integrated circuits. If the supply of miner cards is insufficient the miners will just buy gamer cards instead; you've achieved nothing. Gamers and miners are also competing for the same supply of GDDR5(?), VRMs and every other component on these boards.

      The solution is to badger and shame these concurrency inventors into using different "proof" algorithms so that they aren't pulling a large fraction of the planet's power supply and buying up all the hardware.

    4. Re: so fucking stupid by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There'd probably be some benefit to a mining only card. The lack of ports for connecting to displays would make the cards less expensive and companies could bin chips that have defects only in the parts of the chip that would make them useless for gaming but don't affect their ability to mine. Also, I don't believe that the used market is that valuable as it's likely to get flooded as miners try to upgrade at the same time and many consumers are leery about buying cards used for mining to begin with.

    5. Re: so fucking stupid by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      They won't buy them cuz then they'd have zero resale value after the card is no longer powerful enough to mine. Selling used cards to gamers gets at least a few bucks back.

      I wouldn't say zero, so long as they support SLI and will pair up with some card gamers use.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re: so fucking stupid by bjwest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They won't buy them cuz then they'd have zero resale value after the card is no longer powerful enough to mine. Selling used cards to gamers gets at least a few bucks back.

      I seriously don't want a graphics card that has been abused in a mining rig. They aren't meant to run full power 24/7, and I doubt there's more than a couple of use in them.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
    7. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Maybe you should kill yourself.

    8. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sell them to me. Deep Learning.

    9. Re: so fucking stupid by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Yeah, well gamers figured out real quick that cards run in overdrive for 18months don't last long..

    10. Re:so fucking stupid by GoRK · · Score: 1

      Why in the fuck would they do that? Adding the ports is literally a couple of bucks in parts. Add in the fact that both models would require separate certifications and differntiated aprts and it's just not worth it at all.

      This is a basic supply and demand problem. The demand outstrips supply in a radical way. The winners of this are currently Intel with their embedded GPUs.

    11. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would buy them if they could get more compute power per watt and per dollar.
      What if you had cards with 1GB ram per GPU core and 8 cores per card?
      The density would be much better. 50 watts per core would have it clock in at a 400w card.
      The GeForce 590 used up to 365 watts so it's not too much of a stretch.
      Current 10-series GPUs burn 250w, 8 of those would be 2000w, so these could be 5x the value per card for this application.
      I would use HBM memory on these so they could be useful for data science afterwards.

      The Max-Q GPUs would be ideal, 43 watts each.
      Ever wonder why the 1050 Ti is so easy to find?

    12. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you can buy a video enabled card for X and resell later for X/3, or buy one with no video for X/2 and no resell value. Wonder what's better.

    13. Re:so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The solution is to badger and shame these concurrency inventors into using different "proof" algorithms so that they aren't pulling a large fraction of the planet's power supply and buying up all the hardware.

      No, the solution is to be a GPU manufacturer.
      The one who gets rich in a gold rush is the one who sells shovels.

      The hard part is to make them keep buying new cards long after the coins have become too expensive to mine.

    14. Re: so fucking stupid by kurkosdr · · Score: 1

      They should bundle GPUs with games or prioritise complete systems over selling bare cards (that will go to people building GPU farms). In fact AMD has already done the second thing...

    15. Re:so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The demand outstrips supply in a radical way. The winners of this are currently Intel with their embedded GPUs.

      The main problem is that we didn't really have a healthy GPU market before the cryptocurrency fad.
      Had there been more than a handful of brands to pick from then not only would they have been cheaper to begin with but the response would have been to try to crank out as many cards as they can.

      With the current situation? A higher demand just means that you can abuse your customers more.
      Create an even larger shortage, raise the prices and look at the consumers gladly pay through the nose if they are lucky enough to get their hands on a card at all.

      Competition doesn't happen unless there are enough companies that you can keep taking your business elsewhere if you weren't satisfied with the ten first you tried.

    16. Re: so fucking stupid by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      They won't buy them cuz then they'd have zero resale value after the card is no longer powerful enough to mine.

      Mining is not the only market for crunching numbers. These would have resale value to the same people who buy NVIDIA Tesla products.

    17. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Gamers" are buying those tore-up old cards from last year. Gamers are buying new or gently-used current generation cards.

      But keep fucking things up and telling yourself it's justified.

      NVidia should start putting firmware in their gaming cards that detonates a few capacitors after they've run for a straight week at full load.

    18. Re: so fucking stupid by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute... When did Tesla partner up with nVidia?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    19. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/self-driving-cars/partners/tesla/

    20. Re: so fucking stupid by WorBlux · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unless they are getting free power they're a lot more likely to slightly undervolt the cards, as running at 70-80% uses 50% less power than trying to max things out.

    21. Re:so fucking stupid by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Or run ASIC's on an one node older that has better yields and faster throughput.

    22. Re: so fucking stupid by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      correct in a lot of instances, most coins you would undervolt the core and underclock it, and then overclock the ram. the ram takes some abuse sometimes. but nothing more than overclocking the ram in your pc. even modify memory timings on the amd cards. nvidia encrypts their bios files so you cant tweak it unfortunately..

    23. Re: so fucking stupid by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      that would be illegal. there are no rules saying you cant use the cards for computing, and with all the drivers and documentation I would say quite the opposite.

    24. Re: so fucking stupid by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      And you are sooooo right plus graphic cards life span isn't very long anyways i have 2 gtx 6600 that cost 350 a piece that cant scrap 25 bucks for lol that's the nature of graphic cards next year something better will come out. I wouldn't give a penny to a coin miner for those reason alone they will never get lol full price back in many cases not even half.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    25. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A GPU without display connector won't be half the price. You save ~30cts if you leave all connectors off

    26. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cryptocurrency mining is the reason I will not buy a used GPU. I just want to be able to buy a regular GPU at the normal price. Luckily I was able to get a RX580 for a fair price for the 20 minutes it was available. Now I just need an RX560 that isn't overpriced by $50+.

    27. Re: so fucking stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, gpus are designed to run 24/7 hence reference blower cards..

  2. What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    1) Bitcoin is NOT mined on GPU, since like 5 years. Only on special ASIC devices. You ment to write that crypto-currencies, ALTcoins, are GPU mined

    2) This is going on for like 1-2 years now, including the GPU shortage as result of ALT-coin mining

    1. Re: What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

    2. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Entrope · · Score: 4, Informative

      Indeed. In the last few months, GPU process have actually dropped a fair bit. In January, it was common to see Radeon Vega 64 cards offered for almost 4x MSRP.

    3. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try six years and also the gpu shortage has been going on since about that time.

    4. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin is NOT mined on GPU

      I'm mining bitcoin on GPU...

    5. Re: What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP meant that only a few idiots mine Bitcoin on GPUs. Thanks for reminding us that some of those idiots are also on /.

    6. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you sir are a moron flushing money down the toilet.

    7. Re: What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0

      GP meant that only a few idiots mine Bitcoin on GPUs.

      No, he was just a liar.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    8. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin no, other altcoins, yes.

    9. Re: What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just because the college pays for the electricity in your dorm room.

    10. Re: What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I use my GPU to cook my meals. About as efficient. Hey, laugh all you want. Iâ(TM)ll own your ass at Wacky Wheels.

    11. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      +1 AC. The only way now is with ASIC. The GPU days are over.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    12. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy's article is a few months out of date, as well as being inaccurate on the details. For example, he's quoting stories from early Feb, and ignoring recent trends of inventory actually trickling in a bit.

      The author's Bio makes me seriously question ComputerWorld.com's legitimacy:

      "Lucas Mearian covers financial services IT (including blockchain), healthcare IT and enterprise mobile issues (including mobility management, security, hardware and apps)."

    13. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Bitcoin is NOT mined on GPU, since like 5 years.

      Yay, so it's back to Folding@Home for GPUs then. There may yet be some hope for humanity.

    14. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      ^^ THIS.

      Only a complete noob is using a GPU to mine.

      * Mining Hardware Comparison
      * Non-specialized Hardware comparison

    15. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      1) Bitcoin is NOT mined on GPU, since like 5 years.

      It's almost like something happened to bitcoin in the past 5 years that makes it quite viable to use GPUs. Now what was it again? Oh that's right, a 1000x increase in value.

    16. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Cederic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or possibly people mining cryptocurrencies other than bitcoin.

      Incidentally, only cunts use the term 'noob'. It's an infallible indicator.

    17. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by Megol · · Score: 1

      And you aren't a moron by assuming you know everything? LOL.

    18. Re:What a shitty post, even for slashdot... by jythie · · Score: 1

      It is questionable how much of it is even alt-coin. GPUs are increasingly used in all sorts of number crunching situations, meaning they are increasingly going to marketing and business analytics departments, not to mention increased usage in healthcare/insurance/etc.

  3. Ramp up production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose they've ramped up production. Good times at nvidia and amd/ati!

  4. NOT BITCOINS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No one has mined Bitcoin or any of its offspring with GPU for years. Get your story straight!

    1. Re:NOT BITCOINS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm mining Bitcoin with GPUs though. It doesn't cost me anything, unlike that ASIC stuff.

    2. Re: NOT BITCOINS! by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 2

      It costs you energy to keep your computer on and your card at 100% And it costs you much more energy then a specialized asic.

    3. Re: NOT BITCOINS! by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      His mom doesn't have the basement on a seperate meter.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This has been known for a while. Post some stuff that isn't stale bread.

  6. This is news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of this information is new and startling. Had it not been for this report I would have gone on thinking that high GPU prices was due to a resurgence of PC gaming. Now I know better.

    1. Re:This is news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i lol'd (internally)

  7. Pumping their own awful prices by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

    just an excuse to explain poor supply and price gauging.

    1. Re: Pumping their own awful prices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Price gauging, lol.

    2. Re: Pumping their own awful prices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They certainly gauged the max prices people can pay.

    3. Re: Pumping their own awful prices by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 1

      It's good news for 2nd hand buyers on eBay. (Like me) in a year the market will be flooded with slightly outdated premium cards for a cheap price.

  8. Also prices are down 25% by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    cards are back in stock and the major source of demand for GPU mining, Ethereum & it's offshoots, are about to get ASICs that are about 5x faster than a GPU for less power (still 200 days to the break even point). Prices'll go back down to normal as more ASICs hit the market.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Also prices are down 25% by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      I don't follow the crytocurrency scene very much, but I was under the impression that Ethereum was specifically designed in such a way as to make it difficult or perhaps impossible to use an ASIC.

    2. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Harder to make ASIC for, not impossible. It's effectively impossible to make a crypto currency you can't build an ASIC for.

      The company that has the prototype is the same Chinese company that rules the roost when it comes to bitcoin ASIC mining. They're experts in the field, and it took them what, a year and then some to get ASIC designed.

    3. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe the solution to ASIC-resistance has been to simply switch algorithms regularly. Averting the possibility of ASICs being developed.

    4. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Entrope · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ethereum's hash function is designed to use a lot of memory bandwidth, whereas the Bitcoin hash function is primarily just arithmetic. That means that an ASIC can pop down tons of dedicated hardware for the Bitcoin hash function and be much, much more power-efficient than a CPU or GPU. An Ethereum ASIC does not have the same relative efficiency gain -- but it does have some.

      For any proof-of-work scheme, there will be some point where an ASIC will be more profitable than a CPU or GPU, but most (that use novel hash functions) don't reach that point because the one-time costs of designing the ASIC are so high. Antminer apparently thinks Ethereum has reached that point -- which may push it towards adopting proof-of-stake sooner.

    5. Re:Also prices are down 25% by gravewax · · Score: 1

      Not impossible at all, simply more expensive due to the memory requirements and the fact they are moving to PoS which makes their development pointless.

    6. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Bitmain, the company behind the ASIC in question, and the dominant player in Bitcoin mining field appears to disagree with you, as they have a working ASIC.

    7. Re:Also prices are down 25% by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      You'd think someone would have worked out how to make an ASIC that took cheap RAM modules.

      There are multiple tutorials on getting FPGAs working with generic DDR3. FPGAs were stepping stones to ASICs for Bitcoin, there should be some board out there that can handle memory intensive coins.

    8. Re:Also prices are down 25% by hraponssi · · Score: 1

      Bitmain, the company behind the ASIC in question, and the dominant player in Bitcoin mining field appears to disagree with you, as they have a working ASIC.

      That's interesting, I had not noticed Bitmain had an Ethereum miner released just a few days ago. In general, ASICs are all over the place now. Monero just got ASICs as well. Publicly that is, I guess these have been running quite a while now in private.

      Monero also just forked to avoid ASIC's but then others continued with the ASIC compatible version and call it with a slightly different name. Ethereum has been planning to switch from proof of work to proof of stake for a long time now, so that will drop any need for CPU/GPU/ASIC when done. I can definitely see the sense for people with bigger GPU farms to sell their equipment now...

    9. Re:Also prices are down 25% by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      cards are back in stock and the major source of demand for GPU mining, Ethereum & it's offshoots, are about to get ASICs that are about 5x faster than a GPU for less power (still 200 days to the break even point). Prices'll go back down to normal as more ASICs hit the market.

      There are more cryptocurrencies out there that all those GPUs can be put to work with. Like Monero (ASIC version is a fork), litecoin and ripple. Those are commonly known ones too, so as Ethereum miners move to ASICs, those GPU rigs will mine something else.

    10. Re: Also prices are down 25% by peragrin · · Score: 1

      True but the ethrum development community is planning an update to break the rig a few weeks/month after it has been released.

      Etherum takes an active role in breaking asic rigs.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    11. Re: Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      They can try. And if miners ignore them, as they recently did with Monero, it'll be just the "community" with no computational power and with yet another alt-coin no one cares about.

    12. Re: Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be right. However, beware there alot of scams involving etherium asic miners. They take your money and send you nothing.

    13. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, mister time-traveler, maybe you should check a calendar. The current year is 2018. In 2018 there is no such thing as a cheap RAM module.

    14. Re:Also prices are down 25% by TheEyes · · Score: 1

      Now if only DDR4 would go back down to $10/gb so I can justify getting another 8 G for my laptop...

    15. Re: Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Bitmain is literally the main player in ASIC market. It has the lion's share of it.

    16. Re: Also prices are down 25% by hjf · · Score: 1

      Yes but ethereum is very interesting in that it's not just "a cryptocurrency". It's a whole blockchain platform. You can base your blockchain product in that. Ethereum "coin" can tank and that won't affect you.

    17. Re:Also prices are down 25% by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      A time traveller from 19?? would disagree with you. There is no such thing as an expensive RAM module.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re: Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I don't think you quite understand why the people other than a handful of idealists are in on the blockchain craze.

      What you're suggesting is that high flying goals that no one but a tiny minority cares about are more important than profit. Like I said, if you think that, that's how you end up with useless alt-coin and platform no one cares for.

    19. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ultra highspeed sram with error correction is quite expensive.

    20. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Digging holes and filling them. What a waste of energy. Why build in ASIC resistance? In a sensible system, efficiency is good and waste is bad.

    21. Re:Also prices are down 25% by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid, I paid $100 for 16k of slow DRAM, and we liked it.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    22. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If these ASIC cards are amazing for bitcoin mining, why are they selling them? Why can't they start up their own mining farms and collect all the coins themselves?

    23. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Exact same reason why all other tooling manufacturers do the same..

    24. Re:Also prices are down 25% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because China is cracking down on people 'wasting power' to mine cryptocurrency.

  9. very stale news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    literally anyone who would care about this phenomenon already knows about it. In fact, aren't prices coming back down now that the hype has subsided?

    1. Re: very stale news by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      literally anyone who would care about this

      That, sadly, doesn't include the editors of this quality site.

    2. Re:very stale news by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Yep, I flagged this as Stale for this reason :(

    3. Re:very stale news by sixsixtysix · · Score: 1

      Yes. GTX 1080s were over a grand last fall. I got one for $700 in February. It's just too bad AMD couldn't get their Vegas out in any meaningful quantities in the same time frame.

      --
      ...
  10. Prices are actually falling by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hothardware reports that pricing is now on a downward trend, with GPU prices approaching MSRP. They suggest that this is at least in part due to a new Ethereum ASIC miner. And they provide citations to show that the prices are actually falling, while computerworld simply makes a claim with no evidence...

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Prices are actually falling by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Bitmain Launches Ethereum ASIC Miner With Hash Rate Performance Of 8 GTX 1080 GPUs For Just $800"

      Wow. I'd expect to see a flood of used GPU's piling up on Ebay with this news. Let's see...

      Search GTX 1070, click "used", results: 971 listings with the first ~275 under $400.

      Yep. "Crisis" over. Expect prices to fall precipitously.

      I believe Ethereum is/was the real source of GPU demand given that bitcoin miners long since moved to ASICs. Ethereum was designed to be ASIC resistant. So what has changed? Has there been some breakthrough in ASIC design, driven by cryptocurrency?

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    2. Re:Prices are actually falling by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Ethereum's proof of work is based on directed graphs and apparently it is a memory and bandwidth hog so it works pretty well on a GPU but you can't really just make a single ASIC that can tear through hashes like you can with bitcoin. You can certainly make an ASIC that does the work, but you also have to have lots of memory interfaced to that ASIC through a high speed interconnect. So you're really talking about designing a custom computer rather than just an ASIC with a simple interface.

      Thanks for the GPU tip. Looks like I'll be upgrading my 970 soon.

    3. Re:Prices are actually falling by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Honestly, 970 to 1070 is not worth it unless you actually have games that are straining you just below your point of comfort.

    4. Re:Prices are actually falling by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Honestly, 970 to 1070 is not worth it unless you actually have games that are straining you just below your point of comfort.

      Thanks for that tip; I have dual Zotac 950 AMP!s (one of them was a warranty replacement for a 750Ti, which they didn't have in stock any more) and they bench out at about the same level as a 970. Looks like it's going to be some while yet before I upgrade my graphics card, which is a shame. I was feeling ready for an upgrade.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Prices are actually falling by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      I have a 970 myself, and gaming on 1080p, I just can't find all that many (really any) games that go below my point of comfort (which is around 60fps) without going so far below it that 1070 wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to matter.

      In general, a good rule of a thumb is that you upgrade ever two-three generations depending on your preferences in games and resolution you play on. The thing that throws many people nowadays off is that last three generations lasted for a much longer time than those before them.

    6. Re:Prices are actually falling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ethereum's proof of work is based on directed graphs and apparently it is a memory and bandwidth hog so it works pretty well on a GPU but you can't really just make a single ASIC that can tear through hashes like you can with bitcoin. You can certainly make an ASIC that does the work, but you also have to have lots of memory interfaced to that ASIC through a high speed interconnect. So you're really talking about designing a custom computer rather than just an ASIC with a simple interface.

      This fairy tale has been told too many times to too many people

      https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitmain-releases-ethash-asic-miners

      https://coinjournal.net/bitmain-announces-1st-ethash-asic-for-ether-mining/

      http://cryptomining-blog.com/9682-bitmain-antminer-e3-ethash-asic-miner-is-now-official/

      The ASIC Ethereum mining rig is real, and it works as advertised

      And Bitmain, the Chinese company, is currently busily working on several ASICs to mine other alt-coins

    7. Re:Prices are actually falling by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Some of us just want a cheap CUDA device for playing around with.

    8. Re:Prices are actually falling by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Then you'd be looking at used market for 700- and 900-series cards.

    9. Re:Prices are actually falling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds extremely shady. What would I do if card I buy from ebay works, but crashes every 20 minutes causing my PC to reboot? (I have owned 2 cards that after years of working did that warranty was out, one after 1 month and I had that one replaced by vendor). After crypto miner used up those cards there's a good possibility of heat damage and so on. Any other vendor I could return. I can't do that with Ebay.

    10. Re:Prices are actually falling by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my 970 was driving 1440p effortlessly back when it was new, and is now driving 1080p effortlessly on my 'has steering wheel' backup PC.

      My 1070 is struggling on brand new games at 1440p if I leave all settings at max, by which I mean it can drop under 50fps occasionally.

    11. Re:Prices are actually falling by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The 970 drives my 4 k screen reasonably well, but a 1070 would do better. I wouldn't make that upgrade for retail price, but for $200, sure.

      Also, I do medical imaging and loading a full volume into memory and then manipulating it works in 4 GB but would work better in 8. It's handy to have a local machine with a decent card so you don't have to debug on the cluster all the time.

    12. Re:Prices are actually falling by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Any other vendor I could return. I can't do that with Ebay.

      eBay guarantees your purchases, and so does PayPal. So if you get a card that doesn't work, you should be able to reverse the transaction. It doesn't matter if the seller "allows returns" if the product is bad. You're using eBay wrong.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Prices are actually falling by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Be careful with eBay graphics cards right now - some scammers have figured out you can hack the firmware on a card to spoof the model identifier. Buy a 1050, replace stickers, fiddle firmware, sell as a 1080 - as far as software reports, it is a 1080. Still performs like a 1050 though, and hope the buyer doesn't realise. Can be done on AMD cards too.

    14. Re:Prices are actually falling by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Actually anybody selling off multiple cards that were mined with keep the temps below 70 max, most below 60. anybody datacenter mining keeps them in 30-40 range.

    15. Re:Prices are actually falling by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Yea this article is 3 months out of date. GPU mining profits began to fall in late January and have been on a steady decline since then. Mining for most coins is down 50-80% from highs in Dec/Jan.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    16. Re:Prices are actually falling by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      If you're mainly struggling with memory side of things, 1060 with 6GB may be sufficient. That said, if your company is paying for it, you may as well get a 1080.

    17. Re:Prices are actually falling by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      How do you find interfaces on newer games in 1440p btw? I keep hearing horror stories from friends who decide to "upgrade" from 1080 to 1440 only to discover that interfaces become much harder to decipher.

    18. Re:Prices are actually falling by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Never had an issue with newer games. Some very old games struggle at that resolution but new ones kind of expect it.

    19. Re:Prices are actually falling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently went through this because of a fake GTX 960 (was actually a GTX 560 with spoofed VBIOS) and it was a pain in the ass. You have to try to resolve it with the seller first and can't file it as fraud for the first month. Then you have to get a statutory declaration or police report. Then you have to wait another month for it to be processed.

  11. This story is about 3-6 months beyond its use date by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

    The GPU gold rush for mining has been ongoing for quite a while. It has recently subsided in tandem with the sustained price drop of crypto currencies.

  12. CW is like 3 months behind on these news by lamer01 · · Score: 1

    The trend has reverses on GPU pricing

  13. welcome to 2 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Welcome to 2016. What moron posted this article. GPU prices are dropping not soaring, Bitcoin hasn't been mined on GPU's for years now, alt coin mining since the price crashes has led to nice drops in GPU prices

    1. Re:welcome to 2 years ago by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      A miner who has used cards to sell?

    2. Re:welcome to 2 years ago by gravewax · · Score: 1

      A miner who has used cards to sell?

      Too late for that, ebay et al are flooded with used cards now. Someone trying to offload cards either has to quickly take what they can get or hope for a recovery in crypto.

    3. Re:welcome to 2 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some GPU prices are sometimes dropping (but not back to numbers circa mid-2017), while others remain stable at elevated rates. Some proof backing my statements:

      * MSI GTX 1060 GAMING X 6G
      * MSI GTX 1070 GAMING X 8G
      * MSI GTX 1080 GAMING X 8G
      * EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING 6GB
      * EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition, 8GB
      * EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, 8GB

      By the time these prices drop back to values from mid-2017, there will be new cards on the market being sold for inflated prices (because NVIDIA, given how the market is right now, can get away with it -- nobody would know/think any different), and the older cards will stay at elevated prices because "they're legacy". (Though, unlikely CPUs and motherboard chipsets, at least newer GPUs tend to work on 2-to-3-year-old hardware).

      I expect this exact same pricing phenomenon to start to happen to MHDDs because of BurstCoin and related disk-based coins. Hopefully (crossing fingers) it doesn't affect the SSD or NVMe markets (due to limited erase-write cycles of TLC vs. MLC vs. SLC; most disk-based miners on Reddit etc. seem to understand this, thank god).

      So while Bitcoin is pretty much ASIC-dominated at this point, many prospective alt-coins aren't.

      There couldn't be a worse time to have your CPU, MB, or GPU fail on you. Pretty much every person I know right now who builds their own PC is praying, daily, that their hardware doesn't break -- because their pocketbook can't withstand the cost of replacement.

      And don't get me started on DDR4 prices.

    4. Re:welcome to 2 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      new prices are slowly falling, Used prices are rapidly falling. If you are hard up enough that you can't afford the new then right now their are great deals on used Ex Mining GPU's. While it may scare many that they have been in mining rigs, the reality is they are usually better cooled and controlled then some of the overclocked ex gaming GPU's

    5. Re:welcome to 2 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      new prices are slowly falling, Used prices are rapidly falling. If you are hard up enough that you can't afford the new then right now their are great deals on used Ex Mining GPU's. While it may scare many that they have been in mining rigs, the reality is they are usually better cooled and controlled then some of the overclocked ex gaming GPU's

      The risks associated with buying used hardware is what keeps most people away from it. Most sellers don't disclose if the product is still under warranty or include an original purchase receipt, so if the product fails within ~30 days they have no recourse other than to pray an RMA works (and be out of a card for up to 4 weeks, since most reputable manufacturers, barring EVGA, don't send you a replacement card in advance). It's a risk a lot of people don't want to take.

  14. Old news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously? This has been on going for over a year. This isn't anything new. And it's not Bitcoin, it's altcoins like Etherium.

  15. Okay, ignoring the fact Bitcoin is on ASICs now by Pezbian · · Score: 2

    If there were a smaller market for GPUs, the economy of scale aspect wouldn't be working in anyone's favor. No chipmaker gives a shit whether your framerates are 30FPS or 60FPS or that you can bump your resolution to 4K versus ... unless you can do so on their competitor's cards at a price point that threatens viability of their own offerings (If nobody buys it because someone else has something way better, they don't make back the sunk costs of R&D, tooling, manufacturing, marketing, etc).

    There are still coins you can mine from GPUs. I'm actually intrigued by what the Dogethereum project might do to the market since that's shifting back to GPU.

    100,000 gamers: "I want a new GPU for cheap because I want higher framerates, but I'm poor!"
    10,000,000 cryptocurrency miners: "I want several better GPUs because I can make more money from them and I'm willing to pay for that privilege if you'll deliver a respectable ROI."
    GPU maker: "Okay, miners, you'll get your new card. Gamers, since yields are never perfect, we'll offer the cards to you for cheap if you're okay with the cores that don't work being disabled in hardware. It's still over four times as fast as anything else the other guys can offer for the price."
    All: "Great!!"

    --
    In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
    1. Re:Okay, ignoring the fact Bitcoin is on ASICs now by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      Nvidia at least sees the cryptocurrency thing as a flash in the pan. Miners have demanded a lot of high end GPUs all of a sudden, but they might not express that demand over decades like gamers do. They're certainly not driving GPU R&D.

    2. Re:Okay, ignoring the fact Bitcoin is on ASICs now by Pezbian · · Score: 1

      They're certainly not driving GPU R&D.

      Not long-term, but if you run a company and smell easy money, you adapt and chase it. That's just good business, if only for being able to survive... or beat your competition to the punch.

      R&D departments don't necessarily release the best of their best all at once unless they want to stomp a competitor. It's like I related back in the 90s: If you know how to make a 24X CD-ROM drive (that may not be reliable above 20x) and your competitor can only make a 6x, just release an 8x that can be boosted to 12x if they try to surprise you, and spend time working on making 24x and faster speeds reliable, if not chase a new technology. That's dated, but it's still the same principle today.

      FinFETs and Perpendicular storage were nowhere near as new as they seemed when they hit the market. SSDs (within their class; they wipe the floor with HDDs) weren't, either. I don't follow that stuff as closely now because the Delta-V just isn't what it used to be. "$1,000 on top of the $500 I spent three years ago gets me something twice as fast as what I have now? ... No, thanks. I can wait the extra 240 milliseconds."

      Unless trimming that extra time makes me enough money to make the investment worth it, I'm sticking with what I've got. If your competitor is running twice your speed, but has downtime or data corruption issues that negate more than half their work, you're still ahead.

      Maybe I'll expand on this. I dunno.
      (c) Copyright 2018 - Fryode Electronics

      --
      In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
    3. Re:Okay, ignoring the fact Bitcoin is on ASICs now by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      "Not long-term, but if you run a company and smell easy money, you adapt and chase it. That's just good business, if only for being able to survive... or beat your competition to the punch."

      Chip design isn't easy money. Some people smelled easy money and whipped off some simple ASICs. They probably made back some fraction of a percent of what Nvidia pulls in.

      If you're a smart business you try to supply some long term, sustainable demand. Nvidia has publicly said that they don't think cryptocurrency mining is that. They're enjoying lots of GPU demand, but they don't think it's worth alienating their core customers to serve. With Etherium moving to proof-of-stake voting, that's looking like it was probably a smart decision.

      I think you're mistaken about miners demanding the best equipment too. Etherium mining works just as well on multiple slower GPUs as it does on one fast one (usually better, because of the way the algorithm is designed). So a smart miner will choose a good power/performance ratio. Games, on the other hand, generally benefit most from a single very powerful GPU, so gamers drive the high end.

    4. Re:Okay, ignoring the fact Bitcoin is on ASICs now by Pezbian · · Score: 1

      I don't think I'm entirely mistaken, just off by a bit. But I think you helped me refine my views. I've been every type of gamer, from ditch to high-end. When 3D acceleration was still a novelty in the late-90s, I settled for a 2MB Voodoo Rush card from Intergraph (okay, it had a dedicated 4MB in 2D mode, but that's not what I bought it for). When VR hit, I pre-ordered a GTX 1080 the same day the same day I switched my Rift order to a Vive.

      I hear a lot more about "70" GPUs being employed for mining than "80"s. Binning comes into play, for sure. Maybe mining is "bread n butter" for now, while high-end and low-end are gamer territory?

      Come to think of it, I've used Quadro GPUs (and hacked a GeForce into a Quadro in 2006), but I've never used a Tesla. I don't know much about what the specialized Pro gear (Tesla) has to offer over the GeForce/Quadro stuff, if anything.

      --
      In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
  16. All cryptocurrencies are scam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity, if Bitcoin is really such a great innovation?
    He is just someone does not like media/fan attention?
    Or, could it be really because Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies followed it) are actually Ponzi Schemes?
    (So he knew very well that law enforcement would come after him sooner or later?!)

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really good innovation, why they attract so many criminals/criminal activity?
    Could it really be because, all cryptocurrencies themselves are scams, and that is why they attract all kinds of criminals/criminal activity?

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really currency, why no company/store can use Bitcoin as currency anymore?
    Because the price of Bitcoin proved to be extremely unstable to use as a currency?
    Would the result be different, if Bitcoin replaced by any other "cryptocurrency"?
    Aren't all work the same way?

    Or, they are not actually virtual currency but virtual investment?
    But, if they are actually investment, why we need/want them?
    What would happen to world economy, if people invested in virtual investments, instead of real investments?

    Or, all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually just a modified (made decentralized and paying variable interest) Ponzi Schemes?
    (Price of cryptocurrencies would keep increasing in the long term (by their design), so it is equivalent of paying variable interest to all long term investors.)

    As more and more people invest in cryptocurrencies, it will become harder and harder to ban their trading everywhere!
    All cryptocurrencies need to be banned globally before it is too late!

    1. Re:All cryptocurrencies are scam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity

      Because we had Saddam Hussein killed for trying to switch from the dollar to Euro for trading oil.

    2. Re:All cryptocurrencies are scam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, the cryptocurrencies scam is dying. Exchange rates are under 40% of the December highs and there is no reason for them to go back up, they are a failure for legal transactions, they are a failure as a security, the past year has seen an endless stream of hacks and scams. The con games won't go away completely, but they are getting smaller and smaller.

  17. Free Market by nowwith25percentmore · · Score: 2

    Nvidia needs to accept that it's a free market and just accept that the goods will get sold to the highest bidder. ...just like our political offices...

  18. Much research much wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin isn't mined with GPUs and everyone to your grandmother covered this a long time ago

    1. Re:Much research much wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am mining Bitcoin with GPUs, it costs me absolutely nothing to do so.

  19. SURE THING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats why my local online classifieds (we use kijiji in most of canada eh?) is overrun with used mining cards & rigs and nib high end gfx cards bought to mine but being sold unused at a loss. Bitcoin is magic gais!!

  20. The end by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    So this is how the world will end. Everything will be consumed mining Bitcoin.

    1. Re:The end by Pezbian · · Score: 1

      Of the coin miners I know, like 90% bought solar power rigs for their houses. One had his ASIC miners linked to his brother's under-construction house and paid for something like 30kW of solar gear outright. He made a profit from the start (expensive electricity at that level, plus offsetting heating costs).

      When the miners are garbage, the panels will still work.

      --
      In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
    2. Re:The end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of humanity is currently focusing our collective knowledge, and our collective production and computational power...on the issue of bitcoin.

      Seriously, at this point bitcoin threatens the future of our civilization not because we're facing crime but because we're facing a lack of compute power for anything else sensible. The whole planet is facing every compute FLOP we have at mining bitcoins. We're even running JavaScript miners in browsers which is eating up client CPU time as well.

      How much bitcoin is too much bitcoin?

  21. Repost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you reposting last year's news? Why are the "editors" greenlighting it?

  22. Selling for what? by PPH · · Score: 1

    selling for twice as much as suggested retail

    In dollars or Bitcoin?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  23. Gamers over crypto miners by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I'm sure retailers give a flying donkey's rear who they sell to. If someone comes in with a wad of cash, they will sell to them.

  24. Okay, /. just notices this NOW? by Chas · · Score: 1

    Seriously. It's been an issue for over a year now...

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  25. Hardware lock on GPU's? by SilverBlade2k · · Score: 1

    Why can't they put a hardware lock on GPU's which detects and prevents cryptocurrency mining, and separately sell a card which is solely used for mining?

    Getting tired of seeing GPU's going for 2-4 times their original price. It must be putting a dent in the PC builder market.

    1. Re:Hardware lock on GPU's? by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      Why can't they put a hardware lock on GPU's which detects and prevents cryptocurrency mining,

      Seems like it'd be potentially complicated overhead - how would it detect crypto mining, versus other heavy usage? Wouldn't that affect performance across the board, no matter what you are using the card for? And of course, why would they want to lock out particular uses of the card? (Which is just me pointing out a possible mindset, not agreeing with or disagreeing with it. - though it could be argued that the problem is not the usage alone, but the people buying up huge quantities - supply, purchasing, etc)

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  26. I want GPU for Machine Learning, Want ML hardware by SysEngineer · · Score: 1

    I want to buy GPUs for Machine Learning, but they are too expensive. I wish there was ML hardware that did not have to support Crypto mining, but just Machine Learning.

    I have setup one GPU inside a Linux container but I need more GPUs.

  27. What is this 2017 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously unless Iâ(TM)m missing something here , this post could be from a year ago. Whatâ(TM)s going on ?

  28. LOL good luck OP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New cards coming out, cryptocurrency prices plunging as difficulty soars ... No I don't want you complete rig AT ALL but if you part out the 1080s I'll give you 50% of MSRP.

    GL

  29. Homebrew miners must have ... by MxMatrix · · Score: 1

    ... very very low electricity rates because at this point most cryptocurrencies have reached the point where a GPU spends more money in energy than it generates currency. Either you must be that thick and unwilling to acknowledge this or you have enough solar power on the premises.

    --
    Bach says it all.
    1. Re:Homebrew miners must have ... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Either you must be that thick and unwilling to acknowledge this ...

      That seems to characterize these people pretty well. After all, they are literally mining hot air and are dependent on a "greater fool" to buy from them.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Homebrew miners must have ... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      ... very very low electricity rates because at this point most cryptocurrencies have reached the point where a GPU spends more money in energy than it generates currency. Either you must be that thick and unwilling to acknowledge this or you have enough solar power on the premises.

      I see this argument quite often and all I can think is people don't know how much power actually costs, or how much power GPU mining actually uses. Even now, with prices in the crapper, most cards are profitable with power rates $0.40/kWh and lower.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  30. I hate cryptocurrencies by brucekeller · · Score: 2

    Seriously, dumbest thing ever, and worse, they hurt the environment. I wonder just how much energy has been wasted because of cryptocurrencies? I wonder how many people have had to pay larger electricity bills because of unscrupulous websites and games using their computers to mine, not to mention victims of malware? Stuff needs to be made illegal in its current form. If you're worried about climate change and carbon and all that then getting rid of cryptocurrencies is about the easiest and most effective change that could be made right now. They are all going to zero eventually since they are backed by literally nothing; just hope it happens sooner rather than later... damn tulips.

    1. Re:I hate cryptocurrencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, dumbest thing ever, and worse, they hurt the environment. I wonder just how much energy has been wasted because of cryptocurrencies? I wonder how many people have had to pay larger electricity bills because of unscrupulous websites and games using their computers to mine, not to mention victims of malware? Stuff needs to be made illegal in its current form.

      As cryptocurrencies are adopted, individuals gain power at the expense of governments and banks. The potential for liberty human flourishing is mind-boggling. You sound as though you're objecting to an injection that cures cancer on the grounds that needles hurt.

      If you're worried about climate change and carbon and all that then getting rid of cryptocurrencies is about the easiest and most effective change that could be made right now.

      I'm not worried about climate change one bit. The Climate Change scare is a fascinating case study in modern propoganda and nothing more.

      They are all going to zero eventually since they are backed by literally nothing; just hope it happens sooner rather than later... damn tulips.

      I'd rather a currency backed by nothing than backed by something. A backer is a liability, a party whose competence and integrity directly impacts the value of the currency. Currency backing is a bug, not a feature.

  31. Is this for real? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bad news

  32. not bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't bitcoin miners, it's altcoin miners.
    You would be a fool to mine bitcoin with GPU's these day unless you just like to spend a ton of money for little return on investment.

  33. Not for long by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    I thought dedicated bitcoin mining cards were a thing now, and that gaming GPUs would soon be easily available again... especially when miners start selling off all their used GPUs. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/ar...

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  34. There are plenty in stock by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    only because the retailers are charging a fortune for them. I suppose there is a limit to what the miners are willing to pay for them.

    Nvidia 1080s are plentiful at the Fry's I was at earlier this evening. They have price tags of $1k each which is probably why they're sitting there on the shelf.

  35. Story from last year maybe? by brainchill · · Score: 1

    Story from last year maybe? This certainly isn't new.

  36. Re: so fucking stupid (slow clap) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    -1 Troll