Slashdot Mirror
'Big Brother' In India Requires Fingerprint Scans For Food, Phones, Finances (nytimes.com)
The New York Times reports of the Indian government's intent to build an identification system of unprecedented scope. The country is reportedly "scanning the fingerprints, eyes and faces of its 1.3 billion residents (alternative source) and connecting the data to everything from welfare benefits to mobile phones." Here's an excerpt from the report: Civil libertarians are horrified, viewing the program, called Aadhaar, as Orwell's Big Brother brought to life. To the government, it's more like "big brother," a term of endearment used by many Indians to address a stranger when asking for help. For other countries, the technology could provide a model for how to track their residents. And for India's top court, the ID system presents unique legal issues that will define what the constitutional right to privacy means in the digital age. The government has made registration mandatory for hundreds of public services and many private ones, from taking school exams to opening bank accounts.
Technology has given governments around the world new tools to monitor their citizens. In China, the government is rolling out ways to use facial recognition and big data to track people, aiming to inject itself further into everyday life. Many countries, including Britain, deploy closed-circuit cameras to monitor their populations. But India's program is in a league of its own, both in the mass collection of biometric data and in the attempt to link it to everything -- traffic tickets, bank accounts, pensions, even meals for undernourished schoolchildren.
Technology has given governments around the world new tools to monitor their citizens. In China, the government is rolling out ways to use facial recognition and big data to track people, aiming to inject itself further into everyday life. Many countries, including Britain, deploy closed-circuit cameras to monitor their populations. But India's program is in a league of its own, both in the mass collection of biometric data and in the attempt to link it to everything -- traffic tickets, bank accounts, pensions, even meals for undernourished schoolchildren.
about what India's ruling class does to maintain their status. Or what any country's ruling class does to maintain their status.
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From the mark of the beast
They do exactly the same as here in Europe. Only the method of using biometrics is different due to cost and scale issues. Maybe the horrified civil libertarians could come here to be horrified and explain to the various EU countries and banks how to interpret the banking directive without endangering our Vishnu given freedoms..
We are getting it here in the west too. I live in Sweden and its getting increasingly difficult to communicate with government run services with out a "mobile ID" (which is made by a private firm and requires a newish smartphone BTW) even riding a bus requires a "smartphone" and you have to show a valid ID to ride a train.... Strangely you can still fly in Europe without showing an ID, its easier to get on a plane incognito than a local bus...
Fuck India.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
scan 1.3 billion, edit the list, unlisted or nonlisted save some wasted food...
make that 1.25 billion....
start a war, or announce new taxes and onerous collection, listen for protests, edit the list,
make that 1.24 billion....
give extra food to supporters
make that 1.31 billion....
see how that works ?
Its a lose-lose for India's residents.
Have gnu, will travel.
Unlike liberal liberals I see nothing wrong in this. In fact I think it's great.
In switzerland you notify your local community office that you moved in and everyone gets notified of the change (including your bank). Same when you leave. Everyone who cares knows you left and your new place of abode.
If you can do other things with it like make people pay their parking tickets or notify next of kin of some mishap then great.
There are way too many Indians, they should be happy they arenâ(TM)t killing 50% of them.
If you want the government to provide welfare services that people expect in a country like India with a 75% literacy rate you're going to get what's in TFS. If you've got a better way to do it the Indian government would probably like to hear from you.
A nearby grocery store chain had the idea of using fingerprints to pay for groceries. Turns out folks leave fingerprints on everything they touch. I mean everything! Door handles. Windows. Cups. E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G. Turns out you can trivially forge fingerprints. Their scanner was optical, so a photocopy would work. With some of the newer systems you have to etch a 3D PC (circuit) board or whatever. Perhaps impress the fingerprint onto a correct-temperature-with-pulse organic matrix afterwards. Gummy bears work really well that!
Did I mention this grocery store chain had stores in the nearby economically depressed areas? Whole fingerprint controversy lasted only a couple days. They lost a lot of money.
That political windbag Modi claims it will root out corruption. Maybe. Corruption in India is simply a way to work around bad government. It might remove some corruption, but it won't fix the underlying problem of a useless government and corruption at the higher levels.
All sorts of official activity here in Norway is linked to my "fødselsnummer", essentially my DOB + a 5-digit code to make it unique assigned at birth. Immigrants and others with business in Norway get a D-number which is the same only in a different number series. Can't open a bank account, can't pay taxes, can't own property, can't really do anything official without it. That was all well and good, but then the US started pushing for biometric passports and around here a country is the size of a US state so practically everybody has to have a passport. So since 2010 that all goes into a big database and since you have to renew them every ten years it's now pretty much the entire population. The only thing that prevent them from using it like in India is the law, all the data is already connected and linked.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
This system has been working for a long while. It had already went through massive data leaks in 2017
In singapore it was called Nric/FIN, linked to tax, bank, mobile, all govt services and then I first came to sweden, I had restricted to my new swedish bank account among other things till I got "swedish id" card. It is used everywhere from new house search, new mobile number, authentication in any swedish service (not just govt services, include insurance/ investment / share market/ etc.) TBH, I find having this convenient so I do not have to register in multiple places. I understand the concern about hacks like equifax one. There is a solution for that Blockchain based stuff like "civic" (yes, you hate blockchain I get it) In india's case, it helps with reducing corruption already (no, you can't have oversight without data and some centralized way to identify what the whole population does), and authorizing myself with fingerprint in a bank is kinda convenient considering the fact the each of my signature is unique despite my best effort to duplicate. My point is, NYT tends to blow things out of proposition and whatever is happening in india has already been done in at least sg and sweden and I have not seen any outraged articles about that. My point is
The meals for undernourished children do not reach the undernourished children. Biometric verification will ensure that the food was really fed to the child and not sold out for money. If you've got a tougher idea then please reply.
I'd be okay with this for free government services. Might cut out loads of red tape.
Not so much for services I have to pay for (like cell phones, etc)
'Big Brother' In India Requires Fingerprint Scans For Food, Phones, Finances
Wow. Foreign TV shows are weird.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Fingerprint and photograph as part of your ID has been obligatory in my country for at least 70 years. And you need your ID to indentfy yourself for like.. everthing. I just can't see what's the big deal of making that digital. It looks pretty innevitable actually.
Each new Indian government seems to obsessed with showing the rest of the world that India is an advanced, leading-edge country. And every new Indian government neglects doing anything much about the conditions of more than 600 million (and growing) Indian citizens who lack access to such basic services as running water, electricity and sanitation. Really strange, and unfair to those unfortunate Indians.
The furute requirement will be the mark of the beast.
Time to nuke India. Nothing but glassy craters where all their government buildings and industries involved in doing this will once have been. Collateral be damned, this is for the species here.
t. On Nov. 22, 1963. But Slashdot has decided that something that was implemented mid-2016 is suddenly news, right? So why not 54 years?
Good old BeauHD. It's hard to believe that slashdot missed this, or the several in-depth articles describing what a cluster-frack it is. Mr. Kahn? I'm sorry, you're dead. So, no you can't open a bank account or get a credit card. Yes, I see you standing in front of me, but the system says you're dead, so you will have to appeal to the board. They do have a backlog but (if you grease the right palms) it's only 3 to 6 months... In one of the most corrupt countries in the world, what could possibly go wrong?
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
Each new Indian government seems to obsessed with showing the rest of the world that India is an advanced, leading-edge country. And every new Indian government neglects doing anything much about the conditions of more than 600 million (and growing) Indian citizens who lack access to such basic services as running water, electricity and sanitation. Really strange, and unfair to those unfortunate Indians.
So the 'Big Brother' In India Requires Fingerprint Scans For Food, Phones, Finances, but that is child's play when compare to China
In China, the 'Big Brother' Requires the Human Head in exchange For Food, Phones, or Finances
It's a toss up. Sure people lose privacy but they can also gain a fairly crime free society as well as using the data to improve the health and lives of the public. For example, if the system knows that you avoid eating green leafy vegetables they can take action to protect your health. If you use too much alcohol the system can save you and maybe save others as you probably drive drunk now and then. Tax cheats and idiotic officials who order a $31,000 table for their office will no longer be able to do such wasteful stuff on the public dime. How about being able to stop people from using cell phones while they drive? We should not just have a knee jerk reaction when data collection and analysis really have the potential to take our lived better. Great evil is cloaked by the notion of privacy.
At some point we are going to owe Luddites an apology.
Fro what I can read, the 'food' part is free food that they get. I do not think it to be way to strange to see that people do not abuse the system. The scanning of the ID is done, as far as I can see, instead of having an ID card.
In Belgium having an ID card is mandatory since at least WWII and perhaps longer. (Napoleon?). If you want to open a bank account, you will need to have an ID and if you open a credit (e.g. a bank account that you can go below 0 EUR) you will be registered at the National Bank.(No, not everybody can see it)
If you want to buy a phone, you need to have an ID since the terrorist attack in Brussels. No more burner phones.
If you want some sort of benefit, you will be registered in one form or another, so they will be able to see you do not get money or services you are not entitled to.
In Belgium everybody from the age of 12 has an ID with a chip reader. That can be accessed by open source software eID. Look it up.
I have absolutely no issues that if people receive benefits from the state (and that is what we are talking about) that there is some sort of verification that people do not abuse it.
And how do I feel walking around with an ID that could be checked at random? Pretty safe. They asked me once for my ID at random. The next day I saw them asking somebody else who looks very, very similar as to how I looked, so it was clear they where looking for somebody.
I am sure that was not just a shoplifter as it was the (then) rijkswacht (Federal Police) and not standard police. So if they did that once in all these years, I rather they do it than have a criminal walking around.
That said, I do live in a country where we can complain about e.g. the police when they abuse their power and things will happen. We have reasonable privacy (soon even stricter). On the downside, we are communists and give people a way to live, even when they do not work. And if we work, we are forced to take holidays.
It would amaze me that people can just walk in and ask food stamps in the US without proper identification, because if that is the case, why would people just ask for them once per month? I would ask for them even if I had a job. It is like handing out free money.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
2 quotes: The bigger the government gets, the smaller the individual becomes.
Any government that can give you everything you need, can take away everything you have.
Bonus:
I would rather die a free Man, than live as a Slave.
securely, as if any php webapp could possibly be secure.
The issue with biometric data being used for identity to buy food is just scary. Why is my first question. What does tracking 1.3B people food do to help? Total waste of time and resources.
Only HDD and network equipment makers think this is a good idea.
The problem with your post is that it reads like this: "Nothing can be done! Corruption forever! Read this and despair, there's no point to living!"
Remember when Kolkata was The Black Hole of Calcutta? Why did Mother Theresa work there? Did she give up and walk away, as you appear willing to do?
"Well, the poor are fucked, so there's no reason to give them any thought at all. Where's my croissant and the strawberry jam had better be fresh this time!"
Horrifyingly wrong.
Not a future I'd want any part of.
I wish the Indian opponents of this the best of luck stopping it.