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Trump Orders Audit of Postal Service After Suggesting Amazon Is To Blame For Their Troubles (politico.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Politico: President Donald Trump ordered the U.S. Postal Service to undergo an audit Thursday evening, a move that comes after president's repeated claims that Amazon is fleecing the USPS through alleged unfair business practices. "The USPS is on an unsustainable financial path and must be restructured to prevent a taxpayer-funded bailout," reads the executive order Trump issued shortly before 9 p.m. While not explicitly mentioned in the order, the president has hammered e-commerce giant Amazon in recent weeks and alleged that the company and its CEO Jeff Bezos are driving the USPS into the ground. "I am right about Amazon costing the United States Post Office massive amounts of money for being their Delivery Boy," Trump wrote on Twitter on April 3. "Amazon should pay these costs (plus) and not have them bourne by the American Taxpayer." According to the executive order, a task force comprise of top officials, including Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who would chair the group, will lead the investigation into the USPS' finances and will be required to issue recommendations and a final report no later than early August.
Hasn't it already been pretty well established that the USPS is doing just fine, but the accounting practices congress forces them to use for their pension funding make it look bad on paper?
Someone is mighty jealous of Bezos net worth.
But for tall the wrong reasons. I think Amazon is the only thing keeping the USPS from insolvency. It's probably a good idea to look into why they're both broke and bad at their job.
For some reason, Congress will not allow the USPS to use GAAP for their pension and healthcare obligations which make the USPS look like it is in the red. It is actually a well-run amortization that by normal metrics is revenue neutral.
It is hard to crunch the exact numbers, but I am in the camp that Amazon helps the USPS stay afloat, by giving them something to do. The way the USPS is structured government control but technically independent, there is not way there they can turn a profit.
That said, this is just going to push Bezos to implement his Uber/Lyft delivery even quicker. I've seen those white van of Amazon, tossing packages on my door stop, taking a picture, sprinting back to their van, and speeding off to their next drop.
What do we call this new delivery service: peer-to-peer package delivery?
Mail the report or send it email?
"Amazon should pay these costs (plus) and not have them bourne by the American Taxpayer."
https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/top-10-things-to-know.htm
1. The Postal Service receives NO tax dollars for operating expenses and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations.
As for the part about Amazon causing a loss for the USPS, I don't think that's true. I do not believe the incremental expense to the USPS for each package amazon ships exceeds the incremental price amazon pays for each package. The problem is that the USPS has a huge overhead expense for having to pay so many carriers, having to maintain so many post offices, etc, and the volume of mail they are shipping is declining over the years. Thus their major expenses are mostly fixed (and they are prohibited by law from doing things like closing post offices in unprofitable areas) while their major revenue is declining. If amazon suddenly stopped shipping packages via USPS, then I'm pretty sure the USPS would be in a much worse position financially.
What will be the total bill in both the auditors time and the postal workers time?
If there is anything found will it be less than the total cost of the audit?
Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
I think it has more to do with the PO is only open from 9-5 when people are at work making it more convenient to use FedEx or UPS or DHL than the USPS for the majority of working Americans.
I'd use USPS.. if they were not closed at every opportunity I have to use them.
But for tall the wrong reasons. I think Amazon is the only thing keeping the USPS from insolvency. It's probably a good idea to look into why they're both broke and bad at their job.
I rather suspect that he has access to really good base information on the subject, while we are all relegated to commenting on news articles (that have to make money by with selling shock and outrage).
Also, he has at least some familiarity and ability with finance, unlike many other politicians.
In any event, lets assume he's bumbling into a subject which we've identified as a problem for many years. He might accidentally find an actual problem, and in his awkward, inept way come up with a plan for a solution that (over a couple of years) solves the problem.
Or he might decide there's really no problem there, and the matter will fade from public memory.
In any case, it's probably good that someone is looking into the problem in the first place.
Morons that they are.
Mueller Time is coming, Brownshirts!
Trump has no idea how the Post Office or Amazon Free shipping works.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
There's two sides to every story. Costs to the taxpayer aren't always in the form of direct payments.
"I am right about Amazon costing the United States Post Office massive amounts of money for being their Delivery Boy," Trump wrote on Twitter on April 3. "Amazon should pay these costs (plus) and not have them bourne by the American Taxpayer."
I'm confused. Doesn't Amazon pay for the postage on the packages it ships? I would assume they do. If so, how are they not paying these costs? And isn't the purpose of the Post Office to be a "delivery boy"? What's going on here?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
As any lawyer knows (well, maybe not any of the bargain basement ideologues Trump could hire), "don't ask questions you don't want the answer to".
either you blame them for destroying brick and mortar stores or for destroing USPS - it can't be both. It it is both USPS in modern e-commerce model is doing something really inefficient.
It's a cheap public service that doesn't add to the deficit.
.. and Bin Laden did it from a cave on the other side of the planet. TV "news" says so. ae911truth dot org
I think this ship has sailed, unfortunately. There is little chance of another investigation at this point. No one wants to dig up that past. The whole thing will likely live on like the JFK assassination theories. People will have their opinions, but nothing will ever be proven in public. And most people will be able to go on with their lives, secure in the knowledge that their government could never pull off such a great crime and get away with it. If you can look at it dispassionately, it is quite a thing to behold.
The fact that the USPS is a legal monopoly on mailing letters (first class, under 13 oz) does need to end. For example it is illegal for UPS or Fed Ex or anyone to accept a letter and "mail" it.
With that said, on the package front they are competing with other carriers. As long as Amazon is paying more than it actually costs the USPS to mail packages I'm happy. My guess is one of Trump's donors is Fed Ex or UPS and they want to get their boy Trump to increase the USPS package rates.
what do we think the odds are that the audit will come back saying "the USPS has a massive pension they are required to fund, fixed infrastructure and payroll costs, and declining revenue due to the prevalence of digital technology supplanting many of their services." versus coming back "Jeff Bezos is actually a secret Chinese agent working for the deep state to import Mexican rapists and their families into the country illegally to spread fake news."?
-It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
There is a good article on it at https://psmag.com/economics/th... Its part of the reason why it is cheaper for consumers to buy directly from overseas than from a local shop ... especially items under 2kg.
In other news, Amazon is using Starbucks as their coffee boy, Seattle City Light as their electricity bitch, and various product manufacturers as their production slaves.
-Dave
Didn't he learn from his "inauguration crowd size" conflagration that just because he jumps and shouts about something it doesn't make it true?
Seems strange that a guy who has claimed previously that he's "The Best" at making good deals, and has suggested that those who fail to make good deals are stupid, would beat up Amazon for making a ... good deal !
So while the postal service needs an overhaul in this modern world I have to doubt the motivation. UPS and FedEx are doing terrific due to online orders. So hasn't the postal service benefited as well? Could it be they were last to offer Tracking of packages? Had mandates that conflicted with growth? Didn't invest and see the future?
It is a gov't service. So it runs rain or shine. Where as business can change and decide what markets they want to service.
The real reason the Moron in Chief is doing this;
1) Jeff Bezos is the CEO of Amazon.
2) Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post
3) The WaPo has printed critical articles about Hair Furor.
4) Trump Smash!
How is generating more work and jobs for the postal service is a bad thing. Can't they just raise the price if there is more demand?
Bad thing is all of investment retirement (public and private) that you don't control is bad, or going bad. No support, and being looted like it's a piggy bank.
where republicans forced the USPS pre-fund their retiree obligations and that is what caused the USPS financial mess.
Place the blame squarely on the Republicans, because they want to dismantle the USPS.
But rather than ever admit he's wrong he will make up false facts and spend the remaining two and a half years of his presidency bashing Amazon.
Demonstrably false. Covfefe is a real word. /s
Auditing the entire US postal service and keeping track of every demonstrably false public statement out of Trumps petulant pie hole are both daunting tasks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
Story showing that might actually be a good idea.
You want to give govt employee obnoxious benefits/retirements, please fully fund them instead of just claiming "we can massively raise taxes later to pay for it"
When the results come out, it will prove Trump is a dotard that has no idea what he is talking about. And the anti-Trump media will be certain to publicize that. I expect the report will come out right before the 2018 election.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
WAAAH! Jeff Bezos is richer and a more successful businessman than I am, WAAAH!
This is what Trump looks like when he's talking about Jeff Bezos
Donald Trump acts like a spoiled-rotten narcissistic 5-year-old most of the time already, but you confront him with someone who is clearly and objectively richer, more successful, and a better overall businessman? He loses his shit and lashes out in a childlike temper-tantrum like this, which is going to cost you, the U.S. taxpayer, as a totally unnecessary 'audit' of the USPS is conducted. Meanwhile there are matters vitally important to the Nation as a whole that are being ignored in favor of Trumps' ego and vanity. Isn't enough enough already? Trump voters: what were you thinking!?
The postal service is essential and should be protected. Itâ(TM)s actually explicitly defined as a requirement in the Constitution.
An audit will let us know the truth, if they arenâ(TM)t financially healthy is it because of special pricing to amazon or are there other factors? Once we know we can fix it.
They could just increase the prices.
Isn't there some sort of monopoly law for this reason, I thought this was all figured out a long time ago.
That would be for abortion
You are fucking idiot. Saying something is someone's choice is not being "FOR" something. You are a fucking worthless piece of shit. The only ABORTION I'm for is aborting your dumb worthless piece-of-shit ass off the face of the earth. You are a fucking worthless, shit-bag, piece of garbage. May you and all your progeny die of horrible rotting cancer you fucking shit-faced prick!
Trump is only distracting the american people with more meaningless drivel.
Why does anyone even listen to him about fiscal responsibility or profit? He is a pro at bankrupting businesses. He certainly won't be trying to find anyone who is good at the analysis either. Everyone with talent is running as far away from him as possible.
USPS is a key foundation to small businesses in the US.
Trump could focus on not breaking the US economy, or maybe hiring people for his cabinet that aren't corrupt, or maybe just resigning and letting a big boy run the country.
I am glad Mr. Trump is fulfilling his election promise to drain the swamp by going after Amazon. The national nightmare of independent media critically covering the office of The President of the United State is soon to be over. Washington Post and Bezos will soon regret foolishly exercising the freedom of speech and freedom of the press.
I'm surprised he can actually do this. Apparently an EO can order an audit of any company, however USPS is ...." independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government
Big Giant Orange Head made this about Amazon. Let me fix that for you BGOH:
"The Big Giant Orange Head blames every American citizen for using the US Postal Service, at prices the USPS sets, and for the purpose the USPS was founded. Big Giant Orange Head then proceeds to spontaneously combust due to excessive irony and hatred, all contained within his Big Giant Orange Head. Nothing could be done to save BGOH said medical staff. 'It was only a matter of time, you cannot hang on to that much rage and bluster', said one Doctor'."
In attempting to make this about Amazon, BGOH gives away his transparent political motives, and degrades both himself and his office. Again. For the umpteenth time.
How about we start auditing politicians before they take office and after they leave to see if there are any discrepancies in their income.
I've been getting all my stuff delivered by Amazon Logistics. I also use same-day or next day because I'm an impatient bastard.
Sounds like a fishing expedition to me. Perhaps even a 'witch hunt'?
WTF? I watched that and am familiar with it, so your lie isn't going undetected.
That segment was purely about pro-choice. Women who couldn't afford kids and had already decided that they wanted abortions, went looking for them and were defrauded by dishonest organizations who tricked them.
See, this is how we know that you're lying and that you know that you're lying. The segment did not include women who wanted to have the kids and then got talked out of it. And if you paid attention, you would have realized that there wasn't even anyone to do that -- there'd be like zero or one Planned Parenthoods in some area, and a dozen fake places that misrepresented what they do. The women who wanted to have kids were totally free to do that, and nobody has produced evidence that someone tried to defraud them into getting abortions. And especially, that segment on the show did not include that. We know that for sure (you're definitely lying) because you can watch it and see.
You're a liar. You either 1) didn't watch it, or 2) you did watch it and got angered that your fraudulent organizations that exists purely for the purpose of deceiving people, are getting found out and will soon be made illegal, so you're lying to try to buy the criminal-minded shits a little more time.
BTW, I normally don't think of pro-life people as criminal-minded shits. The way that most people decide the difference between that's-a-person-with-rights vs that's-not-a-person is pretty arbitrary, and few people on either side are really able to provide a robust explanation for how they categorize these little specs of goo. Not all pro-life people are scumbags; I think many of them mean well. But the people whose bullshit Jon Oliver caught: they're dishonest scumbags. You shouldn't be lying to protect them .. unless you're one of them. And if you are, go fuck yourself. You're going to give all pro-life people a bad name. I bet the not-criminally-minded ones don't appreciate that.
This seems like a poor excuse
https://www.cnet.com/news/dona...
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
A lot of posters here seems to be very confused about that.
The existence of the USPS is not under attack. Just certain practices that may need to be modified.
[citation needed]
Every time I see that line, "I am right about Amazon costing the United States Post Office massive amounts of money for being their Delivery Boy" I am reminded of Chief Wiggum saying, "we can't be, er, (makes air quotes) "policing" the whole city."
http://chiefwiggumfiles.tumblr...
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
https://about.usps.com/careers/working-usps/benefits.htm
The Postal Service participates in the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program, which provides excellent coverage and flexibility with MOST of the cost paid by the Postal Service.
The Postal Service participates in the federal retirement program, which provides a defined benefit (pension), as well as disability coverage.
As a result of all this, the USPS has about a $100 billion unfunded pension liability - backstopped completely by the US taxpayer.
Now go ahead and tell me the USPS isn't costing the taxpayer a dime.
Instead of bickering about how far out we fund taxpayer-insured pensions, why not switch both to 401k style defined contribution plans - like almost every other industry has done?
The constitution does not require that the government promise an unsustainable pension to all government workers.
Many enterprises have moved from pensions to 401k style defined contribution plans. The government should do the same. Our current course of government pensions is unsustainable and will saddle our kids and grand kids with enormous debts.
It also creates two classes of people - those who are responsible for their own retirement funds and those who have retirements that are guaranteed by the taxpayer. Doesn't this count as economic inequality - or does that term only apply to really rich people?
To audit USPS will cost a large fortune. It is wasted tax dollars and the public should be offended. How about taking the millions that that audit will cost and assigning it to wounded soldiers instead of wasting it on a senseless, political red herring.
Hmm... NSF and NIH work very hard funding medical and scientific research and training. For the pure private sector fans, please point to their funding counterparts so I can compare them.
Chinese sellers are sending packets into the US for less than it costs to deliver them. The USPS is subsidizing China.
Lets see:
Paperless Billing: Check
Paperless Invoices: Check
Paperless Cheques: Check
Newspapers : NOPE
Flyers: NOPE
Magazines: Electronics
So that leaves Junk mail, and say the IRS, DMV/DOT and of course Ebay, Netflix, Amazon.
I have high-speed internet, so I could always get away without dvd.com
So, lets see if the IRS, DOT, and Junk mail can fully fund the postal service. Of yeah, the letters to Santa and Me-Maw, I'm sure those can fully fund it, email of course, notwithstanding.
I buy a lot of small "maker" electronics from china. Many items that cost a buck or so with free shipping to the US. I dont see how the Chinese postal service is paying fair rates to the post office considering the price of a 1oz letter is $0.50 and for a 1oz package is $3.50. The USPS is definitely loosing money on each package delivery from China.
I am part of the trade imbalance with China. I buy things from China for typically 20%-40% of the US price. Typically with free shipping. Delivery takes longer. Typically 2-3 weeks. But if I am not in a hurry, the wait is worth the savings.
> Your hair is a collection of cells, but cutting it isn't murder.
No it isn't, it's a protein called keratin.
USPS losses:
2012 - 15.9 billion
2013 - 4.8 billion
2014 - 5.3 billion
2015 - 5.6 billion
Citigroup (not trump and not some right wing group) did a study and found that Amazon gets a discount of roughly $1.60 per package from the USPS due to a 2006 law that they are taking advantage of. That same law is why a package from china is far less expensive than a package shipped to anywhere in the US.
You can say that you hate Trump. That's fine. But when someone is right, saying they're wrong just because of your political bias is idiocy.
I'm quite sure "POTUS" does have access to more accurate and detailed data on USPS than the average slashdot reader.
But Donald Trump, wouldn't trouble to avail himself of such facts.
This is strictly DJT acting out because Jeff Bezos is an actual billionaire who happens to own the Washington Post, which refuses to stroke DJT's tiny fragile ego.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The post office is about to be privatized
I'm quite sure "POTUS" does have access to more accurate and detailed data on USPS than the average slashdot reader. But Donald Trump, wouldn't trouble to avail himself of such facts.
True. Both nuances were already pointed out by other people, and implied. This being the internet, I guess I should have been more explicit about that.
My understanding is that the package delivery side of usps is profitable, but the daily envelope delivery side is not.
Either way, isn't it up to usps to increase rates? Why is this amazon's fault?
When has the USPS ever made a profit? When I was hatched, first class stamps cost 5 cents, fifty years later it is 50 cents. However, commercial mail senders pay 378 cents for First Class Mail and even lower amounts for other types of mail. Level the field USPS, everyone pay the same rate and maybe you will stop losing money.
In their beginning, Amazon would intentionally order out-of-print books along with the one book they wanted, in order to get free shipping on their orders from publishers. So, doing something to intentionally take advantage of USPS isn't out of the question, IMHO.
Amazon is nothing but a great example of making a good deal, something Trump should praise,and if he doesn't like it, HE should renegotiate it. .... no nothing. Rural and small town, and mostly our parental and grandparental past is dying....
The growing disaster that Amazon is visiting upon our society, and I wish Trump could see it, is the fact that Amazon doesn't pay the smaller/lower community level taxes, and it is not they are just undercutting the tax base of towns, cities, and counties, and thus undercutting the local roads, community services, police and sheriffs, they are thus destroying small-town America, the infrastructure of rural and small town America. Have you noticed? The smaller towns, and their communities and local businesses and services are disappearing, turning into unpainted, boarded up cultural deserts, no cops and no schools and no restaurants and no
I love and utilize the tax free shopping of Amazon, but would be willing to lose that benefit if we could save that part of our society.
Crazy but true. The blame goes, not to Amazon, nor the USPS, nor China. The United Nations UPU (United Postal Union) treats China like an undeveloped bit player
Under current rules, those charges
(called terminal dues) are set ludicrously
low for certain countries, among them
China. (Under UPU rules, for example,
China, the world’s second-largest
economy, gets the same break on
terminal dues as do Gabon and
Botswana.) This means that the USPS
actually charges China Post less to
deliver a package from China into the
U.S. than it charges a U.S. business or
customer to deliver a similar size
package within the 48 states. The post
office is losing money on every package
it delivers from China — costs it has to
pass on to its own American customers,
not to mention U.S. taxpayers.
(Arthur Herman, National Review)
Article in Forbes last fall. "As U.S. Postage Rates Continue To Rise, The USPS Gives The Chinese A 'Free Ride'" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/w...
Article in Washington Post almost four years ago, "The Postal Service is losing
millions a year to help you buy cheap stuff from China" - https://www.washingtonpost.com...
Bob Stein, http://bobste.in