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Trump Personally Pushed Postmaster General To Double Rates on Amazon, Other Firms: Report (washingtonpost.com)

President Trump personally urged the leader of the U.S. Postal Service to double the rates the agency charges Amazon and other firms for delivery packages in several private conversations in 2017 and 2018, The Washington Post reported Friday (alternative source). From the report: Postmaster General Megan Brennan has so far resisted Trump's demand, explaining in multiple conversations occurring this year and last that these arrangements are bound by contracts and must be reviewed by a regulatory commission, the three people said. She has told the president that the Amazon relationship is beneficial for the Postal Service and gave him a set of slides that showed the variety of companies, in addition to Amazon, that also partner for deliveries.

Despite these presentations, Trump has continued to level criticism at Amazon. And last month, his critiques culminated in the signing of an executive order mandating a government review of the financially strapped Postal Service that could lead to major changes in the way it charges Amazon and others for package delivery. Few U.S. companies have drawn Trump's ire as much as Amazon, which has rapidly grown to be the second-largest U.S. company in terms of market capitalization. For more than three years, Trump has fumed publicly and privately about the giant commerce and services company and its founder Jeffrey P. Bezos, who is also the owner of The Washington Post.

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  1. Won't that just push... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Won't that just push Amazon to set up their own private courier services? Not that I feel sympathy for either side of this fight.

    1. Re:Won't that just push... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Firstly, they do have their own private courier service.

      Second, if USPS suddenly is pushed by the Administration or whatever upon which the Administration manages to lean, it will become more-expensive than FedEx, UPS, DHL, and so forth. The other clients will then go to those lower-cost providers. Then the USPS will go bankrupt, like the three casinos Trump managed to trash.

    2. Re:Won't that just push... by superdude72 · · Score: 5, Informative

      FedEx and UPS often just handle the long-haul portion of a shipment and rely on the USPS for delivery from a USPS distribution center to a customer. If the USPS goes away. FedEx and UPS will not take its place. We'll all just be stuck with very expensive, not very convenient shipping.

    3. Re: Won't that just push... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People only look at what is right in front of them. Last mile delivery is the toughest and most expensive to coordinate. USPS owns that. USPS is public. Trump hates public services.

      Here's what's going to happen

      Trump "penalizes" USPS, cheerleaders are on his side. Amazon responds by furthering its last mile push. Amazon establishes independent and underpaid delivery drivers who run last mile using their own vehicles. Eventually Amazon will be pushed to use a fleet due to the same pressures uber is facing.

      USPS is pushed to the side leaving Amazon Road or whatever the fuck they'll call it to do the majority of last mile for the country. Trump and Bezos laugh together at a cocktail party years later about how they privitazed a public service and used the public dime to do it.

    4. Re:Won't that just push... by mark_reh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What sort of "like, really smart... and very stable genius" manages to lose money in the gambling industry?

  2. If not with USPS, then they will use Fedex or UPS by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am sorry the company CEO is hurting the Presidents fragile Ego. But shouldn't he be Mr. Business man? Who looks at the big picture and works to make profitable deals no matter what your personal feelings are to the other person? Just as long as Amazon and like companies are not being charged at a loss at such bulk rates this is money to the USPS system, that isn't going to its competitors of FedEx and UPS. Doubling the Rates will not hurt Amazon that much, It will just hurt the USPS because Amazon will just move to the next cheapest shipping method.

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  3. Demand curve by hawguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    You'd think that as a self-professed "businessman", Trump would understand how demand curves work -- if you double the price of a product, demand decreases, if other suppliers (UPS, Fedex, Ontrac, Amazon's own service, etc) can deliver for less, then the postoffice loses out on income for a business that costs very little to provide when they are already sending workers out to every address.

    Though I'd be happy to see Amazon stop using the USPS -- they are the least reliable of all of the other services Amazon uses, packages sometimes show up days after they were marked "delivered", or don't show up at all. I fairly often get packages meant for neighbors, I assume this is the source of the delayed packages.

    Fedex and UPS are the best, packages show up on time. Amazon's own delivery service has been ok, but seem to have a high number of rescheduled deliveries when they've run out of time to deliver. Maybe I'm on the end of the route.

    1. Re: Demand curve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Trump isn't a business man. No business man worth his salt could lose money on a casino. He's also not pro business as we can see from this asking his many other feuds with the business community

    2. Re:Demand curve by DoktorMidnight · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If that man has ever deigned to gaze upon a demand-curve (or any other form of graphed data) and actually understood it, then I am bear in the woods who is also the Pope.

    3. Re:Demand curve by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is making policy decisions based on personal grudges and personal vendettas, his ego is blinding him to facts.

  4. Congrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congrats, USA. You have elected a petulant child to run the executive branch.

  5. Sour grapes by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The USPS is bringing in tons of money through their deals with companies like Amazon. They're not somehow getting screwed. Like in a lot of cases, if you're going to buy a large amount of a product or service, you can generally negotiate to get it at a lower bulk rate. That's not somehow unusual.

    It's essentially guaranteed business for USPS. If they double the rate, I'm sure FedEx, UPS, etc., will be quite happy to carry Amazon's packages instead, and the USPS will wind up being the one that loses.

    But, what's that matter when you've got an ego to feed? This never was about postal rates. This is about Trump not liking Jeff Bezos, because the Washington Post has the gall to call people's attention to it when Trump says something stupid.

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  6. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by willaien · · Score: 5, Informative

    They're not subsidizing Amazon. They were turning a mild profit until they were forced to pre-pay pensions by law instead of acting like any other government or private entity.

  7. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by E-Rock · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you miss the part where the postmaster general said that these arrangements are beneficial to the post office?
    Is there any data to back up your claim that they're losing money on the deal?

  8. Re:hmm by F.Ultra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's less about "fond of multi-bazillionaire captains of industry" and more about understanding how businesses and demand curves work. It's not Amazon that needs protection from Trump here but the USPS which are about to be forced to loose major contracts if Trump will have his way.

  9. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Local+ID10T · · Score: 5, Informative

    The whole issue here is that the USPS is subsidizing Amazon delivery, by charging rates lower than what it actually costs to ship things. Other mail fees are subsidizing Amazon, how is that right???

    That is a lie.
    USPS financial report

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
  10. Case-in-point: why Trump is not a good POTUS by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This story about the U.S. Postal Service, Amazon/Jeff Bezos, and Donald Trump, is case-in-point as to why he never was Presidential material, why he is not a good President now, and why he never will be a good President, ever: Donald Trump is incapable of de-coupling his ego from his personality when it comes to his duty as President of the United States. The lies, the staffing choices based on personal loyalty and not personal integrity and aptitude, the grandstanding (attention whoring, basically), the temper-tantrums when he doesn't get his way, and decision-making based on personal grudges and personal vendettas (as is the case here specifically) are all anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain need to see that he is not now and won't ever be someone who should have been allowed to be elected in the first place. Never mind that he may well be at least as crooked as Tricky Dick or not (we may never really know, but boy oh boy does it look likely), or that he's flat-out incompetent politically (vis-a-vis Israel/Jerusalem), what we've seen since January 2017 is so far as I and so many others are concerned more than enough evidence that Donald J. Trump as POTUS was one of the worst electoral mistakes in the history of the United States, one that this country will spend decades living down with the rest of the world.

    1. Re:Case-in-point: why Trump is not a good POTUS by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Donald Trump is incapable of de-coupling his ego from his personality when it comes to his duty as President of the United States.

      I basically said this on another forum a long time ago. My evidence at the time (which is still basically true) was that he initially posts stuff on *his* twitter account and then re-tweets on the POTUS account. Thus, in my opinion, he thinks of himself first and as POTUS second.

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  11. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The USPS has publish information multiple times debunking this statement.

    The primary reason that the USPS makes a profit on Amazon even though the indivitual package price is very low is that Amazon fills the shipment.

    An analogy would be a standby ticket. They need to charge passengers $200 for the flight but there are often empty seats so charging someone $50 for those IS profitable because those were unsold tickets and the new passenger costs only a little bit extra.

    The USPS has obligations for certain delivery times mandated by congress, so they have a ton of empty space on the airplane or freight truck. Unlike the airlines that schedule fewer flights when a route is slow, the USPS still has to drive it every single day.

    USPS items get loaded first, then other shippers like Amazon. If the truck fills, Amazon waits for the next truck but that's such a rare occurrence that it isn't a concern for Amazon.

  12. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Ksevio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, it's a complaint - no one else needs to pre-fund pension plans. Your second sentence about them going broke doesn't make sense.

  13. If Trump wants to increase Amazon's costs... by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...then he should get the states to increase their diesel taxes and weight-mile taxes on trucks. But this would harm the oil industry which pays big money to politicians and so it will never happen.

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
  14. Re:Pre-pay by Altus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even if everyone agrees with you that forcing the USPS to prefund pensions is a good idea, bitching about their finances when they have to go through this huge change is dumb, if anything we should be expanding their services so that they are more profitable. Including lost cost banking services would be a good place to start.

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    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  15. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by worldthinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are being forced to pre-fund pension plans FAR in advance of their obligation. That is singularly different than ANY other company or entity. It is literally starving them of resources. They can't adequately keep their facilities updated, clean, or expand services. The Post Office is one of the few things specifically mentioned in the Constitution as a service the Government is expected to provide.

    If it were not for companies like Amazon and others, the Post Office would have gone bankrupt.

  16. Re:hmm by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Despite your disingenuous "heartening" comment, actually most of us want EVERYONE to succeed,including our political rivals, heck, even the "evil" large business owners, as long as they play the game by the rules, and don't SCREW the people or the environment to make their profits.

    Of course, there are exceptions and outliers on either side of the aisle, and there are the psychopathic types that just want to see the world burn, but for the most part, most of us want everybody to succeed in life. As long as it's not at someone else's expense.

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  17. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by avandesande · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most tax 'irregularities' are dealt with by fixing the paperwork and paying the back taxes. The IRS only really cares about getting the money that's owed.

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    love is just extroverted narcissism
  18. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are required to pre-fund for employees 75 years out per the interpretation of the government on the law congress passed. This means prefunding retirement for employees that have not been born yet.

    It's absurd and anyone that can't see that is a shill or a partisan troll.

  19. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, You cannot charge a president with a crime while in office.

    Actually, you can. It's against current DOJ guidelines, but that doesn't mean they can't make an exception to their own guidelines if they feel it's appropriate to do so. Then it would be up to the courts to decide if the indictment can stand or not.

    As a hypothetical example, let's imagine that some President decided to walk down 5th avenue in broad daylight, point an assault rifle at a nearby crowd, and summarily murder several dozen people while on live TV. Do you really think that law enforcement would just nod their heads and say "yeah, he committed mass murder, but he's the President so we'll just have to wait until after he's out of office to do anything about it"? That seems very unlikely.

    I don't claim the current situation is comparable to that, but it demonstrates that indicting a President could and would happen under sufficiently dire circumstances.

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