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Trump Personally Pushed Postmaster General To Double Rates on Amazon, Other Firms: Report (washingtonpost.com)

President Trump personally urged the leader of the U.S. Postal Service to double the rates the agency charges Amazon and other firms for delivery packages in several private conversations in 2017 and 2018, The Washington Post reported Friday (alternative source). From the report: Postmaster General Megan Brennan has so far resisted Trump's demand, explaining in multiple conversations occurring this year and last that these arrangements are bound by contracts and must be reviewed by a regulatory commission, the three people said. She has told the president that the Amazon relationship is beneficial for the Postal Service and gave him a set of slides that showed the variety of companies, in addition to Amazon, that also partner for deliveries.

Despite these presentations, Trump has continued to level criticism at Amazon. And last month, his critiques culminated in the signing of an executive order mandating a government review of the financially strapped Postal Service that could lead to major changes in the way it charges Amazon and others for package delivery. Few U.S. companies have drawn Trump's ire as much as Amazon, which has rapidly grown to be the second-largest U.S. company in terms of market capitalization. For more than three years, Trump has fumed publicly and privately about the giant commerce and services company and its founder Jeffrey P. Bezos, who is also the owner of The Washington Post.

46 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. Won't that just push... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Won't that just push Amazon to set up their own private courier services? Not that I feel sympathy for either side of this fight.

    1. Re:Won't that just push... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Firstly, they do have their own private courier service.

      Second, if USPS suddenly is pushed by the Administration or whatever upon which the Administration manages to lean, it will become more-expensive than FedEx, UPS, DHL, and so forth. The other clients will then go to those lower-cost providers. Then the USPS will go bankrupt, like the three casinos Trump managed to trash.

    2. Re:Won't that just push... by willaien · · Score: 2

      In several markets, Amazon already does have their own carrier services known as AMZL. They even market it out as a public courier service in India.

    3. Re:Won't that just push... by Altus · · Score: 2

      Plus the service provided by the USPS is not nearly as reliable as the other providers. My previous employer tried moving from Fedex to a Fedex/USPS last mile solution and the result was a huge increase in missed deliveries. For amazon this might not be a big deal, the cost of replacing the lost items might not be higher than the saving of using USPS but for my employer, with a limited inventory of items that are produced in one off batches, it was unacceptable. If the cost of USPS goes up and the quality of service does not, it might not have to get more expensive than Fedex before Amazon decides its not worth it anymore.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    4. Re:Won't that just push... by superdude72 · · Score: 5, Informative

      FedEx and UPS often just handle the long-haul portion of a shipment and rely on the USPS for delivery from a USPS distribution center to a customer. If the USPS goes away. FedEx and UPS will not take its place. We'll all just be stuck with very expensive, not very convenient shipping.

    5. Re: Won't that just push... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People only look at what is right in front of them. Last mile delivery is the toughest and most expensive to coordinate. USPS owns that. USPS is public. Trump hates public services.

      Here's what's going to happen

      Trump "penalizes" USPS, cheerleaders are on his side. Amazon responds by furthering its last mile push. Amazon establishes independent and underpaid delivery drivers who run last mile using their own vehicles. Eventually Amazon will be pushed to use a fleet due to the same pressures uber is facing.

      USPS is pushed to the side leaving Amazon Road or whatever the fuck they'll call it to do the majority of last mile for the country. Trump and Bezos laugh together at a cocktail party years later about how they privitazed a public service and used the public dime to do it.

    6. Re:Won't that just push... by mark_reh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What sort of "like, really smart... and very stable genius" manages to lose money in the gambling industry?

    7. Re:Won't that just push... by thomn8r · · Score: 2

      Privatizing the USPS has been a Republican wet dream for years.

    8. Re:Won't that just push... by gatfirls · · Score: 2

      One that takes out a 600million$ loan(bonds) at ~16% interest, because banks wouldn't ouch them with a 10 foot pole..

  2. If not with USPS, then they will use Fedex or UPS by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am sorry the company CEO is hurting the Presidents fragile Ego. But shouldn't he be Mr. Business man? Who looks at the big picture and works to make profitable deals no matter what your personal feelings are to the other person? Just as long as Amazon and like companies are not being charged at a loss at such bulk rates this is money to the USPS system, that isn't going to its competitors of FedEx and UPS. Doubling the Rates will not hurt Amazon that much, It will just hurt the USPS because Amazon will just move to the next cheapest shipping method.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  3. Demand curve by hawguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    You'd think that as a self-professed "businessman", Trump would understand how demand curves work -- if you double the price of a product, demand decreases, if other suppliers (UPS, Fedex, Ontrac, Amazon's own service, etc) can deliver for less, then the postoffice loses out on income for a business that costs very little to provide when they are already sending workers out to every address.

    Though I'd be happy to see Amazon stop using the USPS -- they are the least reliable of all of the other services Amazon uses, packages sometimes show up days after they were marked "delivered", or don't show up at all. I fairly often get packages meant for neighbors, I assume this is the source of the delayed packages.

    Fedex and UPS are the best, packages show up on time. Amazon's own delivery service has been ok, but seem to have a high number of rescheduled deliveries when they've run out of time to deliver. Maybe I'm on the end of the route.

    1. Re: Demand curve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Trump isn't a business man. No business man worth his salt could lose money on a casino. He's also not pro business as we can see from this asking his many other feuds with the business community

    2. Re:Demand curve by DoktorMidnight · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If that man has ever deigned to gaze upon a demand-curve (or any other form of graphed data) and actually understood it, then I am bear in the woods who is also the Pope.

    3. Re:Demand curve by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is making policy decisions based on personal grudges and personal vendettas, his ego is blinding him to facts.

    4. Re:Demand curve by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

      And making policy decisions based on personal grudges should be an impeachable offense and a criminal action.

    5. Re:Demand curve by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      Trump is making policy decisions based on personal grudges and personal vendettas, his ego is blinding him to facts.

      In Trumpland, there are no such things as facts, all that matters is he perceives himself as the winner and all blame falls elsewhere and thus the narrative must support that.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  4. Congrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congrats, USA. You have elected a petulant child to run the executive branch.

  5. funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Donald is going to prison, the question is how deep is Pence's dick in the dirty business of Trump's backside deals?

    1. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by bobbied · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Donald is going to prison, ?

      Neither are, Hillary isn't and Trump isn't going to jail. Everybody needs to stop this so we can get off this crazy partisan train.

      Hillary just needs her security clearance pulled forever along with anybody who didn't report the classified data on the private E-mail system, which is pretty much all her staff. No prison term required.

      Trump hasn't done anything worthy of prison either.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's nothing partisan about Republican Robert Mueller being allowed by a Republican Congress and Republican FBI director to continue and finish, come what may, his legitimate and legally appointed investigation into high crimes.

      Donald is going to prison. Donald Junior is going to prison. Others are going to prison. The question as asked, is Mike Pence also in legal jeopardy, stands as the most important thing we do not currently know much if at all.

    3. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by avandesande · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most tax 'irregularities' are dealt with by fixing the paperwork and paying the back taxes. The IRS only really cares about getting the money that's owed.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    4. Re:funny when Trumpies try deflecting from Mueller by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First, You cannot charge a president with a crime while in office.

      Actually, you can. It's against current DOJ guidelines, but that doesn't mean they can't make an exception to their own guidelines if they feel it's appropriate to do so. Then it would be up to the courts to decide if the indictment can stand or not.

      As a hypothetical example, let's imagine that some President decided to walk down 5th avenue in broad daylight, point an assault rifle at a nearby crowd, and summarily murder several dozen people while on live TV. Do you really think that law enforcement would just nod their heads and say "yeah, he committed mass murder, but he's the President so we'll just have to wait until after he's out of office to do anything about it"? That seems very unlikely.

      I don't claim the current situation is comparable to that, but it demonstrates that indicting a President could and would happen under sufficiently dire circumstances.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  6. Sour grapes by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The USPS is bringing in tons of money through their deals with companies like Amazon. They're not somehow getting screwed. Like in a lot of cases, if you're going to buy a large amount of a product or service, you can generally negotiate to get it at a lower bulk rate. That's not somehow unusual.

    It's essentially guaranteed business for USPS. If they double the rate, I'm sure FedEx, UPS, etc., will be quite happy to carry Amazon's packages instead, and the USPS will wind up being the one that loses.

    But, what's that matter when you've got an ego to feed? This never was about postal rates. This is about Trump not liking Jeff Bezos, because the Washington Post has the gall to call people's attention to it when Trump says something stupid.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  7. Re:Good? by willaien · · Score: 2

    Stopped? USPS is still honoring their contract that still makes them money.

  8. Trump continues to be idiot by presidenteloco · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is NOT news.

    Wake me up when he does something not boneheaded.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  9. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by willaien · · Score: 5, Informative

    They're not subsidizing Amazon. They were turning a mild profit until they were forced to pre-pay pensions by law instead of acting like any other government or private entity.

  10. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by E-Rock · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you miss the part where the postmaster general said that these arrangements are beneficial to the post office?
    Is there any data to back up your claim that they're losing money on the deal?

  11. Re:hmm by F.Ultra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's less about "fond of multi-bazillionaire captains of industry" and more about understanding how businesses and demand curves work. It's not Amazon that needs protection from Trump here but the USPS which are about to be forced to loose major contracts if Trump will have his way.

  12. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Local+ID10T · · Score: 5, Informative

    The whole issue here is that the USPS is subsidizing Amazon delivery, by charging rates lower than what it actually costs to ship things. Other mail fees are subsidizing Amazon, how is that right???

    That is a lie.
    USPS financial report

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
  13. Case-in-point: why Trump is not a good POTUS by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This story about the U.S. Postal Service, Amazon/Jeff Bezos, and Donald Trump, is case-in-point as to why he never was Presidential material, why he is not a good President now, and why he never will be a good President, ever: Donald Trump is incapable of de-coupling his ego from his personality when it comes to his duty as President of the United States. The lies, the staffing choices based on personal loyalty and not personal integrity and aptitude, the grandstanding (attention whoring, basically), the temper-tantrums when he doesn't get his way, and decision-making based on personal grudges and personal vendettas (as is the case here specifically) are all anyone with two eyes and a functioning brain need to see that he is not now and won't ever be someone who should have been allowed to be elected in the first place. Never mind that he may well be at least as crooked as Tricky Dick or not (we may never really know, but boy oh boy does it look likely), or that he's flat-out incompetent politically (vis-a-vis Israel/Jerusalem), what we've seen since January 2017 is so far as I and so many others are concerned more than enough evidence that Donald J. Trump as POTUS was one of the worst electoral mistakes in the history of the United States, one that this country will spend decades living down with the rest of the world.

    1. Re:Case-in-point: why Trump is not a good POTUS by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Donald Trump is incapable of de-coupling his ego from his personality when it comes to his duty as President of the United States.

      I basically said this on another forum a long time ago. My evidence at the time (which is still basically true) was that he initially posts stuff on *his* twitter account and then re-tweets on the POTUS account. Thus, in my opinion, he thinks of himself first and as POTUS second.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  14. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The USPS has publish information multiple times debunking this statement.

    The primary reason that the USPS makes a profit on Amazon even though the indivitual package price is very low is that Amazon fills the shipment.

    An analogy would be a standby ticket. They need to charge passengers $200 for the flight but there are often empty seats so charging someone $50 for those IS profitable because those were unsold tickets and the new passenger costs only a little bit extra.

    The USPS has obligations for certain delivery times mandated by congress, so they have a ton of empty space on the airplane or freight truck. Unlike the airlines that schedule fewer flights when a route is slow, the USPS still has to drive it every single day.

    USPS items get loaded first, then other shippers like Amazon. If the truck fills, Amazon waits for the next truck but that's such a rare occurrence that it isn't a concern for Amazon.

  15. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Ksevio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, it's a complaint - no one else needs to pre-fund pension plans. Your second sentence about them going broke doesn't make sense.

  16. If Trump wants to increase Amazon's costs... by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...then he should get the states to increase their diesel taxes and weight-mile taxes on trucks. But this would harm the oil industry which pays big money to politicians and so it will never happen.

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
  17. Re:Fitting sourcee by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's fitting that the story comes from the Washington Post since this has nothing to do with Amazon and EVERYTHING to do with the smear job WAPO has been doing to Trump.

    So you are claiming that a story about how Trump is pushing the Postmaster General to significantly increase the rates it charges Amazon... has nothing to do with Amazon? Are you saying Trump did not, in fact, press for Amazon's postal rates to increase? Because the Postmaster General has specifically and rather publicly stated why she cannot do that - which would be an odd and random thing for her to say if Trump hadn't asked for it.

    How about a similar story from Fox News? Is this one a smear job too? Did Bezos buy Fox News? http://www.foxnews.com/politic...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  18. Re:Pre-pay by Altus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even if everyone agrees with you that forcing the USPS to prefund pensions is a good idea, bitching about their finances when they have to go through this huge change is dumb, if anything we should be expanding their services so that they are more profitable. Including lost cost banking services would be a good place to start.

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  19. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by worldthinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are being forced to pre-fund pension plans FAR in advance of their obligation. That is singularly different than ANY other company or entity. It is literally starving them of resources. They can't adequately keep their facilities updated, clean, or expand services. The Post Office is one of the few things specifically mentioned in the Constitution as a service the Government is expected to provide.

    If it were not for companies like Amazon and others, the Post Office would have gone bankrupt.

  20. Re:hmm by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Despite your disingenuous "heartening" comment, actually most of us want EVERYONE to succeed,including our political rivals, heck, even the "evil" large business owners, as long as they play the game by the rules, and don't SCREW the people or the environment to make their profits.

    Of course, there are exceptions and outliers on either side of the aisle, and there are the psychopathic types that just want to see the world burn, but for the most part, most of us want everybody to succeed in life. As long as it's not at someone else's expense.

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
  21. Re:Pre-pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True. The way they are supposed to work is the money disappears up some executives ass when the majority of the workers that paid into it their entire career reach retirement age.

  22. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are required to pre-fund for employees 75 years out per the interpretation of the government on the law congress passed. This means prefunding retirement for employees that have not been born yet.

    It's absurd and anyone that can't see that is a shill or a partisan troll.

  23. Re:Pre-pay by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

    figure out how much they are going to have to pay out over the next 50-70 years, and put away enough money to cover it

    Funding the pensions of employees who have not been born yet is really, really stupid.

  24. Re:Pre-pay by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

    True. The way they are supposed to work is the money disappears up some executives ass when the majority of the workers that paid into it their entire career reach retirement age.

    I'd mod the AC insightful if I had points.

  25. Nixon did it first by GrimSavant · · Score: 2
    Abusing executive power to go after enemies is an impeachable offense, and we know that it is an impeachable offense because Nixon was about to be impeached for it, among other things. See article 2 of the Nixon impeachment:

    Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposed of these agencies.

    This conduct has included one or more of the following:

    1. He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

    ...

    In all of this, Richard M. Nixon has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

    Wherefore Richard M. Nixon, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.
    Adopted 28-10 by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.

    The relevant bit of history is Nixon's enemies list, in which he ordered IRS audits to "screw" his political enemies. In that case, the IRS commissioner Donald Alexander also refused to follow the order to perform the audits, and stored the order in the sealed envelope in his safe until the enemies list was outed by WH Counsel John Dean.

    As an aside: there are other bits of that article of impeachment that Trump's folks have been accusing his political enemies of violating, particularly with the FBI and surveillance. That's a neat trick of acting Nixonian whist accusing your enemies of acting Nixonian, I don't know if that counts as projection or muddying the waters, or if it even reaches the heights of Orwellianism. Or perhaps it is simply a childish "no, you are!"

  26. Re:Pre-pay by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

    Funding the [educations of students] who have not been born yet is really, really stupid.

    This is what you'll be telling your kids when they're ready for college?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  27. Re:How do you know it's more expensive? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

    That's been the GOP plan all along. They'll use that to "prove" that private enterprise is always better, smarter and cost-effective, they'll find a way to screw the workers out of their pensions and amend the constitution to either get rid of $govt_svc or to allow its functions to fulfilled by corporations entirely.

    Combine that with Drumpf's hate-boner for anything associated with Jeff Bezos plus his belief that he should be able to run the government to the benefit of his business interests, and...

    And there you have it in a nutshell. We're done here.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  28. Re: How do you know it's more expensive? by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why would they expect military veterans to be more suitable as postmen?

    Extensive firearms training.