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As Cryptocurrency Values Plummet, Graphics Card Pricing Improves Dramatically (hothardware.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the cause-and-effect dept.

MojoKid writes: In recent months, the cryptocurrency industry has taken a sharp downturn in valuations of virtually all major currencies, from Bitcoin to Ethereum. As a result, cryptocurrency mining itself has become significantly less lucrative for the average miner. In addition, demand on GPUs from the major OEM suppliers like NVIDIA and AMD, has fallen off dramatically as well. Cryptocurrency miner demand for graphics cards has fallen so much so, that pricing of board partner brands like EVGA, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte and others, has returned basically to MSRP levels. This is compared to the sharp price gouging that was going on earlier in 2018 and late last year, when demand was far out-stripping supply. In fact, reports are emerging now that another approximate 20 percent price drop could be coming to GPUs this month, especially as NVIDIA is expected to launch its next generation gaming graphics card very soon. Whether or not this is indicative of some sort of cryptocurrency bubble burst remains to be seen. However, for now, gamers and PC enthusiasts are likely breathing a sigh of relief, as better supply/demand dynamics are clearly in sight.

142 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Other price-raising strategies? by sheramil · · Score: 2

    So, what other essentially pointless activities can video cards perform that might raise their prices again? How about... deep learning? What's wrong with video rendering? Buy a whole bunch of them and send them to Ian Hubert so he can get the next episode of "Dynamo" out of the way more quickly.

    1. Re:Other price-raising strategies? by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Join the Leela Chess Zero project, and help create the world best chess program.

      http://lczero.org/

    2. Re:Other price-raising strategies? by dohzer · · Score: 2

      Just stop making as many now that demand has dropped.
      Too simple?

    3. Re:Other price-raising strategies? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      5K and 8K computer games. Ray tracing.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Other price-raising strategies? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with video rendering?

      What kind of rendering are you talking about? The slowest part of any video production is usually compression, and that task isn't embarrasingly parallel and doesn't lend itself to video card speedups.

  2. "Price Gouging"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is compared to the sharp price gouging that was going on earlier in 2018 and late last year, when demand was far out-stripping supply.

    So which one is it: price gouging, or legitimate supply and demand?

    Price gouging only occurs in two cases. When prices are raised artificially regardless of how low demand may be, or (more controversially) when it's an essential human need like water and there is a disaster or other emergency. Of course in the latter case a judgment call needs to be made about whether shortages are more desirable.

    1. Re:"Price Gouging"? by Junta · · Score: 2

      Well, it's also possible to induce scarcity. If it were a truly competitive market, then a competitor would have probably do a crazy production ramp up to mitigate.

      As it stood, nVidia limited their production ramp up (precisely because they expected the bottom to fall out of the market and didn't want to be stuck with a glut when it fell) and instead did various things to try to throttle customers buying GPUs (although they explicitly gave crypto-mining an exemption to some of those, because they had such mixed feelings on it).

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re: "Price Gouging"? by Sique · · Score: 1, Interesting
      There is as much of a free market as there is of pure vacuum. The free market is a valuable tool to explain many things in economy. But in reality, there is no such thing as a free market, and there never will be, because no one of us has instant complete information and the ability to decide only on the information given. We constantly have to make shortcuts in our decisions because we have only limited information and only limited time to decide, and thus all our decisions are made under duress, running afoul the very idea of a free market. Sometimes, it would be nice if the free market zealots would at least know about Buridan's ass or Laplace's demon to understand some of the general limits to a free market.

      The only thing we can do is create a very good model of a free market by setting up rules and limits to its scope and to the agents acting within the market. And if we get the design right, we will indeed get a vibrant market conforming quite well to the predictions of the economic theory, and actually coming close to the optimum in price determination and product evolution. But like a real market, it only works if in general, everyone agrees and adheres to the rules set for everyone. But like a real market, if someone is out to destroy the free market for instance by poisoning some of the offerings or by just conquering and plundering the market with his gang of thugs, there is not much you can do except for raising the walls around the market and increase oversight and control, which adds costs to do business on the market, also known as fees and taxes.

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      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:"Price Gouging"? by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      No, because last time around they did just that and when the bottom dropped out of the crypto market they(and AMD) were left holding the bag

    4. Re:"Price Gouging"? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      Price gouging only occurs in two cases.

      No free market theory is a myth, according to rational actor theory - lets take the videogame industry - it's not in your rational interest to ever buy an mmo for instance. During the late 90's company CEO's were trying to find new ways to exploit gamers they took normal rpg's with single and multiplayer combined in one game and rebranded them mmo's and amped up the PR to get people to pay monthly for a game they never own. That is the definition of getting fucked.

      I'll give you another one, before it was taken down Tranformers Fall of cybertron by Activision was selling for 50-60$ 5 + years after release. How is that possible under "supply demand" theory? AKA if activision doesn't need your money they won't lower the prices, they have billions of dollars to sit on to wait. So supply and demand is bullshit otherwise everything that isn't bought in terms of software would be near zero price because supply is infinite.

    5. Re: "Price Gouging"? by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      That depends what you mean by "free market". You could choose some unrealistically idealized definition, just so you can complain that it's unrealistically idealized, if you were a fool.

      By any reasonably definition, the US commodities markets are free markets. The government does not set prices, not choose who's allowed to participate. Most of the market rules are set by the market itself, not the government.

      The only thing we can do is create a very good model of a free market by setting up rules and limits to its scope

      That's exactly what most people would call a "free market", of course. You need rules to prevent fraud and enforce contracts, but that in no way makes it less of a free market. Prices are still set by supply and demand.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re: "Price Gouging"? by Holi · · Score: 1

      And where is the government doing this in the graphics card market?

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    7. Re:"Price Gouging"? by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Free market still works withing the videogame industry. Supply in software isn't infinite because there isn't an infinite number of people that can run your software. With that taken into account, it works.

      For example, imagine a AAA PS4 game, costs $100M to make, 100M PS4s in the wild. It means they can't sell for less than $1 (all inclusive) or they are losing money, so they need to increase the price to the most profitable point, by whatever mean necessary, maybe around $70, or $20 + $10/month, or whatever. To have the price drop, increase the market size, and therefore supply. It is apparent in mobile games where there are billions of devices, and sure enough, mobile games are usually cheaper. On the other side of the spectrum, highly specialized professional software is ridiculously expensive due to the small market. That's opposite the usual way of thinking (people create supply, companies create demand) but ultimately, it is the same thing.

      The reason some games are still expensive long after release may be because they studios think they can still sell it full price, or they want to avoid competing with themselves (they want you to buy the new game instead), or they don't want people to delay their purchase of new products in hope the price will drop later.

      As for rationality, it is perfectly rational to pay monthly for a game if the alternative is not playing the game you want to play. In economics, rationality is limited to economic decisions. For example, no rational being wants to be addicted to cocaine. However, cocaine addicts still make rational economic choices, they won't pay $100/g if the next guy has the same stuff for $50/g, other things being equal. As a result, supply and demand works.

    8. Re: "Price Gouging"? by mesterha · · Score: 1

      That depends what you mean by "free market". You could choose some unrealistically idealized definition, just so you can complain that it's unrealistically idealized, if you were a fool.

      I assume one would pick an idealized definition so one could more easily prove stuff about markets. Whether one captured the right stuff to actually have anything interesting to say about reality is the big issue. Kind of like Turing machines. They don't actually exist, but they do tell us interesting things about real machines.

      By any reasonably definition, the US commodities markets are free markets. The government does not set prices, not choose who's allowed to participate. Most of the market rules are set by the market itself, not the government.

      Can you give one, or even more interestingly, several of these reasonable definitions. What you give here allows monopolies which by any reasonable definition are not free markets.

      --

      Chris Mesterharm
    9. Re: "Price Gouging"? by jpaine619 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You think the commodities markets are free? Do you have any idea how much money the federal government gives out in the form of subsidies to manipulate those exact same prices?

      Why the FUCK is there still a sugar subsidy?!? Something like 80% of all farms are owned by large corporations and we are still subsidizing certain products (corn/sugar/etc).

      Maybe if sugar was just a little bit more expensive, under a real FREE market for sugar, we'd use a little bit less of it.

      As near as I can tell, the Mexicans figured out how to properly use sugar in sweetbreads.. They put a little bit on the OUTSIDE where it hits your tongue instantly.

      We, on the other hand, put it on the inside and have to use so much that bread might as well be called sugar/flour cubes.

      We know too much sugar is bad for us, but lets keep the price down artificially so that we can continue to use it as a filler for everything....

      There is absolutely no sector of the US Economy that has anything that even resembles a free market at the present time. I can't think of any sector that doesn't have at least one large player being given chunks of cash to manipulate the pricing, even if it's only in the form of tax breaks.

    10. Re:"Price Gouging"? by Solandri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not price gouging though because Nvidia didn't raise the wholesale price of their GPUs. Even when retail high-end GPUs were ridiculously overpriced, it was still possible to buy a pre-built system with a high-end GPU at a reasonable price because the company building it was able to get the GPUs at uninflated wholesale prices. eBayers would buy these systems and part it out, selling the GPU separately from the rest of the system (which they resold as using integrated graphics), to take advantage of the discrepancy between the system price and component market price.

      What most people don't seem to understand about market pricing is that prices for a commodity do not rise because sellers raise the price. It rises because buyers buy out all the inventory of sellers offering the item at a low price. That leaves only sellers offering it at a higher price with inventory, which buyers then perceive as an increase in market price. Sellers can then take note that the items are selling out at the lower price, and may choose to raise the price at that point (the sweet spot is when you're just barely able to keep an item in stock). But it's the buyers who cause the price increase (by depleting the market of lower-priced inventory), not the sellers.

    11. Re:"Price Gouging"? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      Free market still works withing the videogame industry. Supply in software isn't infinite

      This is utter nonsense, the supply of any game IS effectively infinite - aka therefore the price should approach zero for game software but that doesn't happen. A 5 year old transformers game should not be selling for 60$. You can't just ignore facts that don't fit your theory. You're basically acting irrational at this point. If supply demand theory were true the price of the software would approach zero but it never does.

    12. Re:"Price Gouging"? by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      How does "the number of people that can run your software" correlate to "supply in software"? It would seem to me that the former number has to do with the demand, not supply.

      So, if you offer a product that is a digital download, you might theoretically have an infinite supply of copies. But that supply side would actually be limited by your server uptime, bandwidth, the time window in which the file is served until you EOL it or your business goes under, etc. So no supply is infinite, not even for intangibles.

      Your whole post is gobbleydook typical of free marketeers - bandwidth costs pennies, so the marginal cost apporaches zero so supply is effectively infinite. So yes charging 60$ for a 5 year old videogame disproves market theory because technically you want to sell the maximum # of copies then the price should go down over time it shouldn't be sitting at 60$ 5 years after release.

    13. Re: "Price Gouging"? by Jason1729 · · Score: 1

      Which is exactly what I said. So not everybody pays taxes; their "tax money" is given to them by other tax payers so they can pretend to pay taxes and pretend to feel all good about themselves.

      It's basically someone gives you $20 to buy a meal and you go out and buy it, and then you lie to yourself and say you paid for the meal yourself because you physically went out and bought it.

      You're pretending that if someone gives you $1000 and then you pay back $100 you're a wonderful person who gave them $100 when the reality you're pretending doesn't exist is they gave you $900.

      It is total bullshit. Takers are takers, pretending they make any form of useful contribution is pathetic

  3. MSRP should have gone down too! by Mishotaki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    MSRP of the release price of a 2 year old card is not what i call a good price... we're still being gouged by the overpriced video cards that made their MSRP stay the same for so long..

    1. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The development this article is about is exactly why that doesn't happen. Nobody's going to re-purpose their factory to specialty cards for a market that can virtually disappear by the time you're ready to go to market.

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    2. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      True, especially since there are now plenty of FPGAs available that cost less and do a better job at mining.

    3. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by cre1mer · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Gigabyte 1050 Ti 4GB that I paid $100 on sale at NewEgg peaked at $200 and currently list for $180. Not much of an improvement.

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      Goodbye, Slashdot!
    4. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Some altcoins and their algorithms are ASIC resistant.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    5. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by cre1mer · · Score: 1

      I'll have to stop buying skinny vanilla lattes for a month to buy a $100 video card. A grave sacrifice every three years.

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      Goodbye, Slashdot!
    6. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by Junta · · Score: 1

      FPGAs would not do a better job than ASICs at mining. An FPGA is however at least vaguely useful after a crash in the cryptocurrency for other things, whereas ASICs would likely be utterly useless.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    7. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      we're still being gouged by the overpriced video cards that made their MSRP stay the same for so long..

      "Gouging" isn't the right term. There is zero collusion going on between all the GPU re-sellers (Newegg, Amazon, etc). Yes, the prices ought to be lower in a normal market. But this supply/demand market is hardly normal thanks to cryptocurrency.

      Make no mistake about it; nobody wants to be holding onto inventory that devalues overtime. This is especially true in computing technology. If you haven't turned a profit on old hardware, you never will. At worst, it's actually costing you money to warehouse it. In fact, some will just take the loss and sell it below cost just to free up space for other inventory.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    8. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Convincing only needs to happen for ideas, not facts. So no, I don't need to convince anyone. But to lead you to the right path, please look up Vertcoin and MonaCoin. Also please look up Lyra2RE and Lyra2RE2 algorithms.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    9. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by Jason1729 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, ones that have been running 24/7 for 18 months with crappy cooling. Whatever you do, don't ever buy a used 9 or 10 series card.

    10. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      What's there to explain, different cryptocurrencies have different algorithms with different restrictions on why you can't mine more with the hardware you have. Some are memory bandwidth constrained, these are the ones graphics card is most optimal solution for. The original Bitcoin is constrained by how fast you can do cryptographic operations, there ASICs wipe the floor with any other solution even if they are cheap to develop low end chips, nobody uses PC-s to mine Bitcoin anymore. Making an ASIC for memory constrained altcoin would be ridiculous, graphics cards already have fantastic memory bandwidth. ASIC board would have marginal improvement at best at the ridiculous cost of developing your own high end chip and keeping the design up to date with the times. There is no point.

    11. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by Holi · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that is not the case, that coins like Ethereum, Zencash, Xmr and the like weren't designed to be ASIC resistant? It's not like what he said was controversial.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    12. Re:MSRP should have gone down too! by delt0r · · Score: 1

      I hope so. I am a year overdue for a new PC that can play doom. I only got 9 hours out of that game before my last PC died.

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      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  4. NVIDIA stock price by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

    Now that was a good investment 5-4-3-2-1 year(s) ago. Not only do you speculate on higher demand through cryptocurrency mining, you also get the whole AI and machine -deep- learning crowd and the gamers.

  5. Yawn... by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Funny

    As Cryptocurrency Values Plummet, Graphics Card Pricing Improves Dramatically ....

    Tulip bulb market crashes, flowerpot pricing improves dramatically ....

    1. Re:Yawn... by MadCat221 · · Score: 1

      More accurate analogy: Flower pot hat fad craze subsides, Flower potting enthusiasts rejoice as flower pot prices improve dramatically

    2. Re:Yawn... by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Cool guys don't look at [market] explosions.

    3. Re:Yawn... by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Cool guys don't look at [market] explosions.

      So, you guys have invented a new word for 'bubble' ...

    4. Re: Yawn... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      A good post wasted to that wanker AC!

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      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  6. What about DRAM prices? by evanh · · Score: 1

    Time for DRAM to return to normal too!

    1. Re:What about DRAM prices? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Why? Did the bitcoin price change the number of mobile phones being shipped?

    2. Re: What about DRAM prices? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Yep; I was going to say the same thing: 4MB of RAM was never anywhere near $600 U.S. during the time of the 486; he's off by at least a factor of four.

    3. Re: What about DRAM prices? by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      Parent AC said "$600 for the motherboard and processor". Not $600 just for the motherboard.

    4. Re: What about DRAM prices? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Try again. They said $600 for 16mb of ram (4x4mb), putting them exactly in line with your "counter-" estimate.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  7. PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by enriquevagu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Public blockchains that rely on Proof-of-Work (PoW) should be outlawed. They encourage mining, which is basically wasting energy in HUGE amounts (in the case of cryptocurrencies, to generate virtual coins out of thin air). They are such an inefficient way of implementing the technology, in terms of energy consumption, that they should never be considered as a viable option. If you are considering blockchain-based technology, please think of the planet for a moment when architecting your solution.

    Remember the Energy Star program? Well, that program should be extended to forbid certain technlogies. Such as Bitcoin.

    For more info, see the Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index. Bitcoin is wasting more energy than many countries in the world. At least, now we have GPUs back to normal prices.

    1. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by aliquis · · Score: 1

      The Energy Singularity law?

    2. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Should we also outlaw video games which are also wasting energy in huge amounts ? Think of the planet, and play a board game instead.

    3. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by afxgrin · · Score: 1

      It's inefficient as a database but it's efficient for a multi user trust system.

      Bitcoin by design was to encourage mining so its economic eco-system would grow. When the bitcoin lottery payout is gone completely all that's left is the transaction fees to mine for, the payout will be lower and the number of competing miners should drop quite a bit.

    4. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We should outlaw facebook. it wastes huge amounts of energy to run all their datacenters.

    5. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nice try, but the energy waste is nowhere close, plus they provide entertainment which, arguably, is something people require.

    6. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by q4Fry · · Score: 2

      Think of the planet, and play a board game instead.

      A game made of tree pulp? I dare not. Think of the planet!

    7. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by crtreece · · Score: 1

      Wahhh, we should ban things I don't like

      No, you have it all wrong. I like those things and they should be mandatory. The things *I* don't like should be banned.

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    8. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Should we also outlaw video games which are also wasting energy in huge amounts ?

      Cryptocurrency is wasting energy for nothing, there are better ways to go than proof-of-work. Video games can't be implemented any other way.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      So tell me, what game is anyone playing that caps out racks and racks of GPUs 24/7/365? Oh, people only play a game for at most a few hours and it is uncommon for it to completely max out a single card as doing so kills the framerate? Huh, they don't appear to be similar at all, do they?

      There are only a few people using racks and racks of GPUs for mining. There are millions of people gaming.

    10. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cryptocurrency is wasting energy for nothing, there are better ways to go than proof-of-work.

      Problem solved then. If there are better ways, they will soon take over.

      Video games can't be implemented any other way.

      But you don't have to play them.

    11. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Cryptocurrency is wasting energy for nothing, there are better ways to go than proof-of-work.

      Problem solved then. If there are better ways, they will soon take over.

      You're ignoring social inertia. It's like Facebook. There are better alternatives, but it's already popular and that popularity breeds more popularity.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by supercell · · Score: 1

      Only the ones women play. I want to be on the right side of history.

    13. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by enriquevagu · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      Bitcoin is using 1M times the power per transaction compared to other systems (e.g. VISA) and this will get much worse, but it provides multi-user trust. Is the lack of trust on a central organization (bank, card payment system), even protected by heavy economic & financial laws, sufficient to justify the huge energy cost of Bitcoin?

      Note that regulation forbids unefficient implementation of devices (e.g. vacuum cleaners). PoW-based blockchains should be forbidden too. Devise another implementation which does not rely on PoW.

    14. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      Don't just bash, come on, offer up an alternative on how to keep a trustworthy distributed ledger. What are you supposed to do if you can't have a trusted third party? And you can't with something like currency, it's been tried endless times, nobody has enough trust to back up a viable virtual currency, not even entire nations. Especially not nations now that I think about it. Entire point with cryptocurrencies is that you have immutable monetary policy that nobody can muck about with. That's a bloody tall order and PoW is a genius way to achieve it, if there are alternatives I sure can't think of any.

    15. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by lgw · · Score: 2

      Cryptocurrency is wasting energy for nothing, there are better ways to go than proof-of-work. Video games can't be implemented any other way.

      The only freedom is freedom for me to do things you find useless or harmful. Would you prefer the communist ideal where each of us work each day to the limit of our abilities to meet the needs of others?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    16. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Video games can't be implemented any other way.

      Sure they can. Nobody needs 4K videogames running at 120FPS. We could all return to 2010-era 3D graphics and developers would be forced to make fun and entertaining games instead of the sugar-coated-visuals crapfest they're making now.

      If that still requires too much energy, how about going back to SNES-era graphics? Still too much? How about Intellivision-era graphics? It's still videogames.

      Can you imagine how low power a 2018 Intellivision system could be? It would probably run on a CR2032 battery for over a month.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    17. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Actually, if the power required is much lower along with the payout, this means the big players will stop mining and will be replaced with thousands of single miners that will mine for the sake of the network and not for the profits.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    18. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Should we also outlaw video games which are also wasting energy in huge amounts ?

      But are they? They are providing entertainment for many. What is bitcoin providing? Won't someone think of the drug dealers?

    19. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      But it takes a big miner to implement a 51% attack. So the more big players drop and the more they are replaced by individuals, the more secure the network will be.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    20. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      Are you high? Are you one of those nutjobs that thinks energy is finite? It may be, strictly speaking, but practically it is infinite. We just need to make more of it.

      Wanna use renewables? Fine, but quit acting like any energy generation is a finite supply. You can always add one more solar panel to the array (or build another array).

      You are failing to understand, or take into account, the fact that what YOU might consider a waste of electricity, others may not. And what you might consider a perfectly good usage, others may find wasteful.

      I, for one, think that televisions are a blight on society. But, I'm not so egotistical that I'm going to suggest that they should be banned. I see no net positive benefit to them, but I'd rather live in a society where YOU can waste your time/money/electricity, sitting on a couch, getting stupider and fatter. I value freedom.

      So, please take your holier-than-thou sentiment, and cram it up the back pipe.

    21. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      "You are failing to understand, or take into account, the fact that what YOU might consider a waste of electricity, others may not. "

      If you can accomplish the same thing without the energy expenditure then it is by definition wasteful. Paragraphs of bullshit won't change that.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Freedom to do things others find harmful? Nah son, that's being an a-hole. at best.

      He's talking about the socialist idea of communal-harm. Like you arguing on /. instead of volunteering at the soup kitchen. It's harmful to society.

      Get thee to a reeducation camp!

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    23. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      No, the big miners move to greener pastures to build up their crypto muscle with more and newer rigs. Then someone figures out that their old rigs may no longer be economically viable to run in the big leagues, but they are powerful enough to rape and pillage these hobbyist networks run by many individuals.

    24. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      There was a time circa 2014 that the protocol bounty dropped too low relative to real world prices, and you could not get a transaction processed in a timely manner without ponying up a bounty out of your own wallet. This is a factual scenario that already happened. Big miners did not go away, they just became pickier.

      This scenario will happen again, but the big run up in Bitcoin prices pushed it into the future.

      Of course, it is possible that Bitcoin value collapses in the future, which might drive away all miners. But that would not be the kind of accomplishment in democracy I think you are thinking of.

    25. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      What part of "replaced by individuals" do you not comprehend? If one big player leaves and is replaced by enough invididuals to match the hashing rate of the big player, the network strength stays the same but is less centralized than before.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    26. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by lgw · · Score: 1

      Freedom to do good entails freedom to do evil. There are thousands of books of theology on the topic, in nearly every human language.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    27. Re:PoW-based public blockchains should be outlawed by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      "OK- so no more slashdot for you. It is by your definition wasteful and you seem to think it should be banned. There are other less energy intensive ways to be social with other geeks than slashdot after all."

      There are no non-computerized ways to carry on a conversation of this scope with distributed participants, especially in real-time. You are going to have to put in substantially more effort than that if you want to catch me out. Good luck!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. Researchers release DEDA to anonymize laser printe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    " DEDA is a new tool for Linux that researchers have created to read and decode the forensic information, and to anonymize information to protect against tracking.

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation discovered in 2008 that nearly all major color laser printer manufacturers added tracking dots to any printed document. The yellow tracking dots were invisible to the eye and apparently added to printouts on request of the U.S. government."

    Earlier discussion of this and more sophisticated printer tracking codes [src]

  9. Over-production by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've personally been following GPU prices pretty closely for the last year or so and from what I've seen the drop-off hasn't even been that dramatic since the start of the year and there's still plenty of air in prices, particularly for AMD cards. You can find plenty of Nvidia cards for about MSRP, thou that's not all that unusual as there's been the occasional MSRP special trough the whole craze, but AMD cards still go for well above MSRP almost all across their range and there's actually a reason for that.

    The last time there was a mining craze and then a bubble burst AMD, who like this time had the hardware best suited for this, and their board partners ended up badly over-producing and when the bubble burst almost over night finding themselves with a significant stockpile of unsold hardware. Not only that, a lot of miners also either intentionally broke their cards by wrapping them up so that they'd fail out of heat so they could return them for a refund or then flooded the second hand market with their cards, significantly reducing the demand for that surplus hardware and AMD and their partners needed to shift. The end result of this was that there was suddenly a huge amount of second hand top-end 200-series cards and really big discounts on new cards, which as you may be able to guess didn't exactly do wonders for their bottom line.

    What seems to have happened this time as that AMD and their board partners were cautious and deliberately under-produced during the craze and now that things have died down they don't have the surplus stock Nvidia has. Nvidia has reportedly even had to resort to delaying the launch of their next generation of cards just so that they can shift their existing inventory without having to resort to fire sale prices.

    --
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    1. Re:Over-production by Mindragon · · Score: 1, Funny

      It is likely that Nvidia will discontinue graphic card production over the long run. Their focus on long term productivity gains will be in AI-based markets.

      --
      Just add {In Space!} to anything.
    2. Re:Over-production by CanEHdian · · Score: 2

      The whole point is that, before all the mining craziness, the MSRP was about that maximum price (a few exceptions like "Golden Sample" super-overclock cards) you'd see. The so-called "street price" was under MSRP and as soon as the next iteration of cards hit the market, the previous generation went for well under MSRP. 2-year old cards went for clearance prices.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    3. Re:Over-production by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Interesting

      AMD and their board partners were cautious and deliberately under-produced during the craze and now that things have died down they don't have the surplus stock Nvidia has. Nvidia has reportedly even had to resort to delaying the launch of their next generation of cards just so that they can shift their existing inventory without having to resort to fire sale prices.

      Great points all around, but I wanted to draw special attention to this statement of yours in particular. The summary is suggesting that Nvidia’s next cards are coming soon, but Nvidia’s President said last month at Computex that we won’t see the new cards for “a long time”. People reading the tea leaves are expecting an announcement or leaks to start in earnest next month, but with word straight from the horse’s mouth and rumors about them having far too much inventory seeming to bear out, we have no good reason to expect new cards to be released anytime soon. At best, we may see something, but we shouldn’t expect to have it in ours hands anytime soon.

    4. Re:Over-production by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That's not universal. The RX550 and RX560 are still lingering around the high point. The RX 570, 580 and VEGA based cards have fallen. The same nonuniversality applies to NVIDIA. The 1050 through 1070s have dropped but are not back at MSRP levels. The 1070ti and 1080 dropped quite significantly.

      There's some decent trends on this page: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/tr... and it seems mostly in line with general prices at newegg. There are plenty of places you can pick up various models back at MSRP without any "specials".

    5. Re:Over-production by Raenex · · Score: 1

      but with word straight from the horse's mouth

      Can't take anything they say at face value. They have to balance building hype versus not undercutting their current sales.

  10. Re:List of scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Trump tax cuts

  11. Re: List of scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Black History Month

    I mean seriously... An entire month dedicated to outdated farm equipment?

  12. Re:On overreaction. by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

    Graphics cards aren't used to mine Bitcoin.

  13. Re:WRONG! by cre1mer · · Score: 1

    The 1990's called and want their blink tags back.

    --
    Goodbye, Slashdot!
  14. Re:On overreaction. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

    Did I say they were?

  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Re:On overreaction. by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

    You made it sound like BTC vs USD was relevant for graphics card price.

  17. Is it really a currency? by baenpb · · Score: 2

    Every article regarding cryptocurrency (this one included) refers to the product as a "currency," but it seems like that use case has been abandoned. It is strictly an investment commodity, like oil futures. Bitcoin was popularized with the internet black markets, with purchasing drugs and prostitutes. Is that still happening? Years back I started seeing posts about graphic designers who would accept payment in bitcoin. Weeks ago I saw that there were cryptocurrency machines set up in Schiphol airport, where you can convert euros to bitcoins. Discussions now are about which coin to invest in. There is little interest in buying coffee or lambos, just interest in how to maximize my (real-world, real-currency) money.

  18. Cryptocurrency by DaMattster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole thing is a mania. There are a few people that got wealthy and the rest will be caught holding the bad as it plummets.

    1. Re:Cryptocurrency by eepok · · Score: 1

      Kinda, but not "just like" the stock market. While the market is obviously flawed, it's not completely based on asserted and unrecognized value of an product's hypothetical potential to do something important in the future. That's cryptocurrency. People invested in cryptocurrency because other people invested in cryptocurrency. Very few believe it's the immediate future of financial transactions, but they know the value's going up and they're not going to miss out!

      On the other hand, the majority of the stocks traded are of appropriate value to each other. And while irrationally high investment into the stock market in general can irrationally inflate all stocks ("a rising tide raises all ships"), there are some genuinely over-valued stocks that are more akin to cryptocurrency. Tesla and Uber, for example, have massive values (noting that Uber's not publicly traded) for having never turned a profit. People (investors, venture capitalists), however keep pumping in money because others are pumping in money and there is hope/expectation that they will both become dominantly profitable Soon(tm).

      So, if you have companies that have shown consistent profits at 20% above what they "should" be and the market as a whole drops because of sudden loss of confidence (general bubble burst, major political event), those companies will maintain similar relative values to others (... the tide goes out). Over-valued stocks and things with no rational value (cryptocurrencies) will drop much more than the rest of the market because their investor make-up is significantly more saturated with short-term and opportunist investors who are much more likely to sell off at the drop of a hat.

  19. Re:On overreaction. by Voice+of+satan · · Score: 1

    It is since the alt coins which ARE mined by GPU's have values depending in part of the BTC value. ETH is down too.

  20. Re:WRONG! by cre1mer · · Score: 1

    Good point. Slashdot was still popular in the 1990's. Unlike today.

    --
    Goodbye, Slashdot!
  21. Re:On overreaction. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

    No, the headline did that. I'm saying BTC isn't really down on any timescale that counts. Day-traders aside, BTC has been a damn good investment.

  22. Happens all the time by sjbe · · Score: 2

    So which one is it: price gouging, or legitimate supply and demand?

    Those are not mutually exclusive. You can have situations where normal market dynamics of supply and demand allow for price gouging. Happens all the time in medicine. It also would happen in certain other industries like utilities where there is a monopoly if the vendors weren't regulated. While you can certainly argue that drug prices are a function of legitimate supply and demand, the fact is that price gouging routinely occurs as well because they are taking advantage of people who have a weak BATNA. Any time you need (not want but actually need) something and there is a bottleneck on supply controlled by someone else there is a strong chance of price gouging occurring. Particularly when discriminatory pricing is not prohibited.

    1. Re:Happens all the time by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but did you just try to argue that medicine was subject to normal market dynamics? Really? Price gouging occurs when access to a product is restricted, either through an emergency, or entirely artificial constraints.

    2. Re:Happens all the time by lgw · · Score: 2

      "Price gouging" just means "a price I don't like", so it can happen in any kind of market.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  23. Elsewhere... by Voice+of+satan · · Score: 2

    I still read the French speaking internet and this is what i see there: People are selling theirs rigs at stupidly high prices. I see personal ads in forums and second hand sale websites. I do not see any sign of anyone buying them. And they sell their whole rigs, not the individual GPU's mind you.

    Even at half the price, i wouldn't buy the cards. They have mined 24 hours a day for months or worse. Their lifespan must be well reduced.

    Thinking of the high prices of electricity there, i wonder how many of them mined for a loss hoping the cryptos would skyrocket.

    In a gold rush the ones getting rich are the ones selling pickaxes...

    1. Re:Elsewhere... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Thinking of the high prices of electricity there, i wonder how many of them mined for a loss hoping the cryptos would skyrocket.

      With bitcoin, it's typically either "win" or "lose." If you manage to find one bitcoin, then you win and it will be enough to pay for your entire rig and more. But there's also a chance you won't find anything, and you eat the entire equipment purchase.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Elsewhere... by Voice+of+satan · · Score: 1

      I get your point. But what you are talking about is solo mining.

      Those people i alluded to mined alt-coins, not BTC. Usually ETH. And they did it via pools and were remunerated by the hash.

    3. Re:Elsewhere... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thinking of the high prices of electricity there, i wonder how many of them mined for a loss hoping the cryptos would skyrocket.

      With bitcoin, it's typically either "win" or "lose." If you manage to find one bitcoin, then you win and it will be enough to pay for your entire rig and more. But there's also a chance you won't find anything, and you eat the entire equipment purchase.

      So you have no idea how mining works then? A comparatively microscopic portion of the people mining do solo mining, especially for BTC. Everyone else is in a pool. One of my favorite parts of the crypto hate is people don't have a clue how things actually are but talk like they do. The level of continued ignorance after nearly a decade and trillions of USD worth of transactions is truly astounding. But then most people just sit around yell how everyone is going to lose there money when I did mining on a single 1080 in downtime only (bought retail around launch of less than MSRP) and paid for it many times over after power.

    4. Re:Elsewhere... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      If you manage to find one bitcoin, then you win and it will be enough to pay for your entire rig and more

      That's actually not how mining works.

    5. Re:Elsewhere... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's actually how mining works.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Elsewhere... by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Bitcoin mining does not work that way at all. You do not find or fail to find 1 Bitcoin.
      Even if you were working alone for entitlement to 100% of the reward which nobody does; the block
      reward has never been 1 Bitcoin.

      Miners work in Stratum Pools, and receive proceeds through pay-per-share, pay for last N shares, or
      another proportional method. Statistically speaking, every proper pool DOES find multiple blocks.
      There is variability in how long it will be, and how many work shares are completed before a block is found,
      so this assertion is false:
      If you manage to find one bitcoin, then you win and it will be enough to pay for your entire rig and more. But there's also a chance you won't find anything

      Because ALL the recognized pools find many blocks at a certain rate.

      The basic mining process and rewards are coordinated like this:

      You setup an account with your pool with a username and an address for payouts

      Your pool communicates with your miner over the stratum protocol; your miner establishes a connection using your specified credentials and the pool address, and the pool server supplies your miner part of the block to be solved and your share of the search space.

      Your miner works on its share of work, and at certain intervals delivers a response proving that it has completed a
      certain amount of work.
                  Eventually one of the working miners working on your pool finds a block which contains a block reward;
      However, the lucky miner is finding a block for the POOL, not themself ---- The contents the block had regarding payout was defined by the server, which the miner has no ability to control or change, so there is in general no extra compensation for being the lucky miner that found the block.
      The proceeds of the block are paid out in different proportions to MULTIPLE miners owed a share of a block reward for working the pool with
      excess and the pool fee paid to a Pool reserve address for further distributions of shares owed to miners, and finally
      to the pool operator.

      In this manner: With bitcoin, it's typically either "win" or "lose." is FALSE.
      Every worker gets paid in relation to the amount of work they contribute to the pool ---- and it's not a huge amount per block to any one operator, certainly not a whole BTC, unless you have a MASSIVE amount of hashing power on the order of many hundreds thousands TH/s available.

  24. Re:On overreaction. by DRJlaw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm saying BTC isn't really down on any timescale that counts.

    It's odd how timescales of up to 6 months suddenly don't count, and BTC speculators have suddenly become buy-and-hold investors praising Saint Warren Buffett. It's especially odd considering BTC is touted as a currency, and thus should have a relatively stable value.

    2018 counts, oh great pumper of snake oil. It counts bigly.

  25. Re:On overreaction. by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

    Headline doesn't mention Bitcoin. Plenty of alt coins are down much more than BTC, and it's some of those alts that are mined on graphics cards.

  26. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  27. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  28. Re:establishment shills by MojoKid · · Score: 1

    And you're an anonymous coward pile of shit. Beat it troll.

  29. threadripper does not have on board video or ryzen by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    threadripper does not have on board video or most of the ryzen desktop line.

  30. Re:threadripper does not have on board video or ry by Junta · · Score: 1

    I presume he meant some sort of motherboard with a graphics chip on the board, which I'm guessing exists still, for a ThreadRipper socket...

    Alternatively get one of those unwanted low end, but still discrete...

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  31. Supply and Demand by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    If demand shoots up and supply doesn't catch up and you complain about prices going up, then you need to decide which is preferable - having something expensive but available, or cheap but unobtainable.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Supply and demand by Raenex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course medicine is subject to normal market dynamics just like any other industry. The laws of economics are not suspended just for medicine. It tends to be regulated precisely because of the ease with which price gouging can (and does) occur but supply and demand still applies to medicine. This very fact is why those who argue against government involvement in health care are so very wrong. Normal market dynamics work but they often function in a way contrary to the benefit of society and individuals.

      You've got it backwards. The reason there's such a high price for medicine is because of the government-granted monopolies on drug patents. It's debatable whether the cost of patents are outweighed by the benefits of patent-seeking research.

  32. Miner Miner Forty-Niner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    KryptoKurrency

    FTFY.

  33. I want an ThreadRipper severboard with ipmi but by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    I want an ThreadRipper severboard with ipmi but there are none or even amd ryzen boards with it so I can get an AMD board that is like intel xeon e3

  34. I want an opensource or bto card by sjwest · · Score: 1

    I am not paying $1600 for a out of date gpu from two companies [of which nvida is shady] which comes with a proprietary driver. Just because nvida thinks that is what i want - no thanks

    I would rather buy a pci card, load it with the ram myself and fit a gpu

    Until then i shall stick with the one on my mobo.

    1. Re:I want an opensource or bto card by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Not buying a powerful GPU is a perfectly reasonable choice if you don't need a powerful GPU.

      But if you need it, then you have no other choice. If you think you can design your own GPU, feel free to do it, there is definitely a market. However, none of the attempts so far managed to touch AMD and nVidia. Even Intel, with all their money and expertise can't pull it off.

    2. Re:I want an opensource or bto card by sjwest · · Score: 1

      how about a numeric coprocessor model - ok its going back to the early i386 , say a board with multiple sockets and ram sockets.

      So you buy the card, a processor, the ram module

      My thoughts are flawed here with multiple cores now but thats my concept.

  35. Supply and demand by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but did you just try to argue that medicine was subject to normal market dynamics?

    Of course medicine is subject to normal market dynamics just like any other industry. The laws of economics are not suspended just for medicine. It tends to be regulated precisely because of the ease with which price gouging can (and does) occur but supply and demand still applies to medicine. This very fact is why those who argue against government involvement in health care are so very wrong. Normal market dynamics work but they often function in a way contrary to the benefit of society and individuals.

    Price gouging occurs when access to a product is restricted, either through an emergency, or entirely artificial constraints.

    While your are quite correct that those are the most common times we see the practice it is by no means limited to those two conditions. Price gouging can occur any time there is a breakdown in a competitive market. The constraints do not have to be artificial nor does there necessarily need to be an emergency. It often is used to describe the practices of a coercive monopoly. (before you respond, monopolies do not have to be artificially constructed) It also can happen with suppliers taking advantage of short term changes in the demand curve.

  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  37. Price-Tracking Data - PCPartPicker by eepok · · Score: 2

    https://pcpartpicker.com/trend...

    That's what I'm watching to track prices. It doesn't look like anything has gone down to pre-July 2017 prices. It's better now, but not appropriate.

  38. Re:DDR4 RAM!!! I really can't care about GPUs by RocketSW · · Score: 1

    This! The 16GB of DDR3 RAM that I purchased for $85 two years ago on Newegg is now listed at nearly $200. DDR4 RAM is just as bad.

  39. Re: establishment shills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Cant wait for bitcoin to crash and all the investors commit suicide. The digital purge.

  40. No need to outlaw by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    legalize drugs, crack down on money laundering and ransomware. That's basically that. The base line value of Bitcoin comes from it's use to trade illegal goods. In that market the crazy volatility doesn't matter since you're selling a plant for 100x what it cost to grow or you're laundering money you couldn't use anyway so the lost money is just transactional fees.

    Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are already impractical to use as daily currencies because of transaction times. If you find a way to drop those times you'll probably also find a way to drop mining times and eliminate the artificial scarcity that keep the currency from collapsing. But you need proof of work or your currency becomes open to various forms of attack. You can do centralized proof of stake, but that's just a fiat currency. If you're going that route why not just whatever your country's local currency is?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  41. It's all about transaction cost by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Is the lack of trust on a central organization (bank, card payment system), even protected by heavy economic & financial laws, sufficient to justify the huge energy cost of Bitcoin?

    Easy answer to that question. Which is more expensive? Transaction infrastructure (including trust related ones) and processing costs money. The currency that will win is the currency with the lowest all-in transaction costs. Right now that is clearly NOT bitcoin outside of a few corner cases (mostly for illegal goods). Risk adjusted transaction costs for bitcoin are substantially higher than for the lowest priced alternatives. I see no credible evidence of that changing any time soon. Find a way to make bitcoin transactions actually cost less than using dollars as a general proposition and then it can be a discussion.

  42. Re:On overreaction. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

    1 BTC = $6,574.50 USD right now
    1 BTC = $6,199.80 USD one week ago
    1 BTC = $7,717.00 USD one month ago
    1 BTC = $16,041.00 USD six months ago
    1 BTC = $2,649.60 USD one year ago

    So, yes, you're correct about the prices, but so is the summary. Prices are far down from where they were before, but they're also up from where they were before, depending on how far back you look. Even so, it's the recent downturn that is having an immediate effect on reducing prices in the GPU market, just as the upward swing had an effect on the market a few months back. Moreover, the summary doesn't seem to exaggerate anything. They even explicitly acknowledged that this recent downturn does not necessarily indicate any sort of cryptocurrency bubble bursting.

  43. Re:establishment shills by KixWooder · · Score: 1

    I'll do you one better. I avoid crypto and graphics cards.

    Any gaming I do is on my Switch. My PC doesn't get used for games.

    --
    I hate fat people.
  44. Too late by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Switched to consoles for gaming and am quite comfortable to get off the upgrade treadmill. One purchase every 5+ years is much better (and no troubleshooting games/OS/drivers is great too).

    --
    Twinstiq, game news
  45. Oh, now I understand! by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    This Cryptocurrency thing was a scam initiated by Eve online and CoD players to get the next upgrade for cheap so they can go on and play their second jobs and continue collecting virtual in-game currency in 8k.

    Nice move.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  46. Re: Wumpus sucks cock by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Drunk again (still) drinkypoo?

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  47. Price Gouging? by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

    price gouging that was going on earlier in 2018 and late last year, when demand was far out-stripping supply.

    Price gouging? Does the author not understand how supply and demand works?

    If you have a product in demand, and you cannot meet all of that demand, you raise your prices until the demand equals the supply. i.e. you REDUCE the demand to equal the supply.

    That's exactly how the system is supposed to work. What the fuck are they teaching you people in school these days?

    I've long had a problem with the price controls that are put in place during "emergencies". They encourage hoarding. I understand SOME controls on essentials (food/water/fuel) but the prices should be allowed to rise, at least to a reasonable level, during a crisis the prevent the exact situation that happens during every little minor bump, when uneducated morons flood the stores and sweep the shelves clean.

    If you can afford to buy 200 AA batteries, you can afford to buy 100 at 2x the price and leave 100 for other people who need them....

  48. Re:threadripper does not have on board video or ry by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

    Right... because no motherboard with a threadripper socket has an integrated video chip..... Think before you speak...

  49. 1080TI price has not changed for 1 year now by D,Petkow · · Score: 1

    I bought a MSI Geforce GTX 1080Ti Gaming X (Twin Frozr VI edition) and the price (€880) has not moved down since last June, when I got it.

  50. Invalid Headline - Linked Article Is *Predicting* by ytene · · Score: 1

    This just in from the check-your-facts department: In writing the headline and the OP for this particular linked news article, slashdot have mis-read the linked article.

    What the HotHardware piece actually says is:-

    "According to Taipei industry publication DigiTimes, there has been a definite "mining chill" that's going to positively affect GPU pricing, with its sources claiming a drop of "around 20%" in July. That's significant, and should hopefully mean that more GPUs can be had at their actual MSRP, or perhaps even a bit under soon enough (remember when sub-MSRP prices were common?)."

    Well, we're in July now [albeit only just]. I've checked my preferred GPU retail channels and... no. In fact, there are small month-on-month prices increases, not price drops.

    Sadly, then, this would appear to be the case of hoped-for or planned-for price cuts. The article most certainly does not cite any real-world examples - and my cursory checking suggests that none exist - yet.

  51. Now if only DDR4 prices could come down by yorgasor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The real killer is DDR4 memory. I can't put together a decent ESXi server without a ton of memory. To build my latest server, I had to pick Xeons that still used DDR3 memory, since I could get that at a fair price.

    --
    Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
  52. Re:threadripper does not have on board video or ry by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    server boards have there own lowend video chip as part of the ipmi not cpu video.

  53. Refuse to play by DarthVain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I refuse to play that game. Video cards have been ridiculous for awhile now. Even with this dip, it is hardly reasonable. This reminds me of the HD (hard drive) scandal years ago. There was that flood, that jacked prices up. Then prices stayed up for a couple years beyond the flood as the highly consolidated HD market decided to artificially keep it that way for fun and profit. Sound familiar? There is basically two companies, AMD and nVidia, and a bunch of re-brands. Screw that.

    I mean I got an MSI Radeon HD 7850 2GB that came with two free games (which admittedly I never really played) in 2013 (so 5 years ago!) for 190$. Not only cannot I not buy a card that good for 190 bucks now, but I would pay more now and get a card with less performance. After 5 years of technological advancement...

    On top of that it had a 40$ MIR (Mail In Rebate), so it really cost me 150$... (though as per usually I think it took months to actually get the MIR).

    Anyway it's brutal and I refuse to play these stupid corporate games. If they want to start selling video cards again at reasonable prices then sure, I just wouldn't hold my breath anytime soon as no doubt they will milk this for all it is worth. I just hope my 'ol 7850 is up the the task of Fallout 76 when it comes available...

  54. Completely Agree by ytene · · Score: 1

    And where are the regulators and competition watchdogs?

    Wherever they are and whatever they are doing, it certainly isn't investigating flagrant market abuse like this...

    1. Re:Completely Agree by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately history has shown, that while these things do occasionally come to light, it typically takes forever, goes to court takes even longer, and then typically ends in a token settlement.

      What it amounts to is market collusion, which is not only hard to prove, but takes a lot of time. As mentioned the Hard Drive industry went through it. Before that it was the LCD monitor market. Before that it was Memory.

      The underlying problem being that at certain points when the market was fragmented the competition keeps companies in check more less. However more and more you see companies consolidating until there are only a handful of players in the market. Once that happens the temptation and opportunity become rife. Another commonality seems to be that typically it starts innocently enough due to some unforeseen circumstance, be it a flood, or a scarcity of some raw material, or in this case unusual demand due to a hereto unforeseen use for video cards... Then at some point it just becomes profiteering, more less because they can. Perhaps in 10 years or so it will eventually end up in court and a settlement for a couple hundred million. However that is a drop in the bucket when over that time they were able to make billions more, and none of that will help you or me as most of that money will go to lawyers, government, and maybe a few poor souls who somehow managed to keep a receipt for a video card or other proof of purchase for over a decade to enable them to collect 40$.

    2. Re:Completely Agree by ytene · · Score: 1

      And the frustrating thing would be [at least in the case of graphics cards] a handful of very sternly worded letters to the likes of nVidia and AMD and maybe even Intel, basically putting them on notice and demanding transparency in terms of things like the amount of raw materials and/or components being purchased, prices being paid, volumes being manufactured and prices being charged...

      It wouldn't even take the regulators a large amount of time to spin up a massive monitoring program - all it would take would be the threat of legal action to remind them to play by the rules.

      The business-friendly governments and the completely ineffective regulators won't even do that.

      Typical

  55. Re:DDR4 RAM!!! I really can't care about GPUs by jonwil · · Score: 1

    Same here, I really really want to upgrade from 8GB to 16GB for my Skylake i5 system but the prices here in Australia for the needed DDR4 sticks are just obscene :(

    Too bad the governments don't have the guts to take REAL action to stop the collusion and bring down DRAM prices (none of the fines currently being talked about will be enough to cause Micron, Hynix or Samsung to change their behaviour so the only solution is either much bigger fines or some kind of sanctions or the like)

    Maybe the Chinese will have the guts to go further and hit the DRAM manufacturers enough that it actually forces them to change :)

  56. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  57. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  58. Re:threadripper does not have on board video or ry by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    That's nothing. Get into Epyc and you won't have onboard sound either, and you probably won't care. You will have a 9 pin serial port for power management.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  59. Re:threadripper does not have on board video or ry by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    I presume he meant some sort of motherboard with a graphics chip on the board, which I'm guessing exists still

    I haven't seen one.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.