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As Student-Loan Debt Soars, Alternatives, Like Income-Share Agreements, Are On the Rise (theatlantic.com)
Last year, Lavell Burton, 36, wanted to learn to code, but was surprised to find that many of coding bootcamps cost several thousand dollars upfront. Then he found a 30-week remote program, Lambda School, that was free to attend. The program would provide comprehensive web-engineering training, and would help with job placement. Once employed, graduates would be required to pay back a set portion of their salary under an arrangement called an income-share agreement, or ISA. The Atlantic dives into such income share agreements. From a report: The concept of ISAs has been around since at least the 1950s, when the economist Milton Friedman outlined them as a hypothetical model of repayment. Yet ISAs were rarely implemented until the past few years, as student-loan default spiked and schools sought to offer other ways to pay. In 2016, Purdue University launched an ISA tuition option aimed at families who might otherwise take out high-interest private loans or Direct PLUS loans for parents to fill the gap between federal student loans and the cost of tuition. Purdue hired Vemo Education, a for-profit startup, to help design and administer the program, which is largely backed by the university's funds. The private schools Clarkson University and Messiah College have since announced plans to follow suit, as has the United States Collegiate Athletic Association, which has partnered with Vemo to create ISA options for its roughly 80 member schools.
Among for-profit programs, in 2012, App Academy, a coding bootcamp with locations in San Francisco and New York, began offering a twelve-week program built around an ISA. Others, like the New York Code + Design Academy, which provides a range of web engineering and design courses, and Holberton School, a two-year program in San Francisco, have similar payment options. [...] The ISA-based programs have generated hype, as well as some early success stories. Yet questions remain about whether they are a good deal for students and if they make for profitable businesses in the long run. For one thing, there's little consensus around how much is fair to reap from program graduates, and for how long. Lambda School, for example, requires graduates earning at least $50,000 to pay back 17 percent of their salary for two years, with total payments capped at $30,000. The terms can vary widely among programs. Also, while it's clear how programs like Lambda School might help some people improve their prospects, many of them are so new -- Lambda School is one year old this month -- that there isn't much data about how people do once they get through the programs. That makes it difficult for prospective students to evaluate them.
Among for-profit programs, in 2012, App Academy, a coding bootcamp with locations in San Francisco and New York, began offering a twelve-week program built around an ISA. Others, like the New York Code + Design Academy, which provides a range of web engineering and design courses, and Holberton School, a two-year program in San Francisco, have similar payment options. [...] The ISA-based programs have generated hype, as well as some early success stories. Yet questions remain about whether they are a good deal for students and if they make for profitable businesses in the long run. For one thing, there's little consensus around how much is fair to reap from program graduates, and for how long. Lambda School, for example, requires graduates earning at least $50,000 to pay back 17 percent of their salary for two years, with total payments capped at $30,000. The terms can vary widely among programs. Also, while it's clear how programs like Lambda School might help some people improve their prospects, many of them are so new -- Lambda School is one year old this month -- that there isn't much data about how people do once they get through the programs. That makes it difficult for prospective students to evaluate them.
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If you haven't got the intuition and talent to understand programming, then no teacher (in most cases just a person paid to recite text-book material for you) will be able to help you.
With all the free resources on the internet, you haven't got your head screwed on properly if you decide to pay for it.
Computer schools have been around a long time. I remember seeing TV ads from Control Data Institute back the the 70s. Why is it so expensive now that you need loans, or these schemes, to pay it off?
The entire higher education system is borked, and this is just one more symptom. There needs to be a massive federal review of public universities, which should be existing for the public good, but are instead ballooning in cost just because they can. They want to act like (very inefficient) private companies, while at the same time, getting state and federal funding. That can't go both ways. People say that costs are going up because loans ensure that even the poor students can go to higher education (and they very well should have that ability) but university administrators choose to take advantage of that. It needs to stop. If the university administrators aren't going to do the right thing, they should be made to.
As an aside, universities should also get rid of all the adult daycare bullshit. I have to pay thousands of dollars every year in 'student activity fees' for the PhD program I'm in (Clemson, no problem naming & shaming). These fees are going toward things like 'Chocolate Milk Night,' 'Dave & Buster's Night,' 'Decorate a Mug Night,' and 'Tie Dye a T-shirt Night.' Not making that up, that's the sort of absolutely idiotic things people are going further into debt for.
the LanWan Professional school is scamy like this with hidden fees and not being up front about the true costs.
there's literally nothing these schools teach that cannot be learned from a series of Google searches.
I can only assume it's the discipline and structure the students are paying for.
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It's as if millions of liberal arts college's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
Have gnu, will travel.
I mean lots of places will give you 'stuff' (goods, services, etc) now - in exchange for a portion of your income at a later date. Giving 'stuff' is called a 'loan' and the portion of your income you give back is called a 'payment'.
$30K & not even an degree they can be the best school out there but still will get you past hr but some dumb has who had an 4 year party can get an good deskjob may even the coders boss (no IT skills needed)
If I read this right, if the school fails to teach the student what they need to get an actual job, then they won't get paid. If the school signs up some flunky student who never comes to class because they partied all night long every night, then they won't get paid. If the school admits students who will never make it in the real world because they have no study or work ethics, or are just too dumb to learn the material, then they won't get paid either. Sounds, like they have an actual financial incentive to admit bright, hard-working students and teach them valuable skills.
They've always expected results from the educational paths which they're likely to offer an ISA for, like STEM.
Or did you really think they would offer an ISA to an applicant planning to major in feminist interpretative dance therapy? No, sorry, mommy and dady are stuck paying for that one.
How about alternatives like colleges that work to control costs so they can charge half as much? How about designing a college learning experience to serve the customer? And to be a good value for the customer?
The college cost bubble will burst — I predict it happens before 2030.
Some other organizations will show up and offer a better service at half the price, and they will still be able to pocket a nice profit. It will be much better for students and much better for employers.
Tech interview = 90% of it (assuming you can get past the INITIAL "5%" of H.R. drones & phrase-sifting programs they use)!
E.G. - Before I even FINISHED a CS degree in 1994 I was hired into the Fortune 500 for 1.5 yrs. on contract & then? The rest was ALL that (initially) pretty much!
(That went on as a techie/network-admin/programmer/programmer-analyst/software-engineer career for me from 1994-2007 (when I retired done w/ that "lilypad" hop in my life to achieve the means to do what I do NOW (work for myself vs. others))
* I.E. - Can he do the job? Check. Has he demonstrated a verifible professional trackrecord doing so?? Check.
APK
P.S.=> After your 1st couple of jobs in the art & science of computing, degrees are an AFTERTHOUGHT (good for "splitting-hairs" on fairly comparable contestants for a job in a "those who HAVE" vs. "those who HAVE NOT" situation perhaps)... apk
income share was popular in the 50's because we hadnt evolved lending to a predatory level. sixty years ago you could take on student loans, fail to pay them, declare bankruptcy, and discharge those loans. lenders sought to avoid this by offering alternatives to future students. not that they needed them, as sixty years ago you could go to college with a part time job.
in 2018 debt is federally secured. it cant be discharged, so lenders can garnish your wages, and the wages of anyone who helped secure your student loans, until the end of time. There is no need for income share agreements, unless youre a lender trying to diversify your predatory lending tactics to avoid scrutiny by the SEC or your investors.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Public College. Free.
Semester fees apply (approx. 50 euros/month), but since the student ID comes with free public transport in the entire state I'm actually faring cheaper than a non-student.
BTW: Did you know you can study for free in Germany, even if you're an USian? ... Just sayin'.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
People take these loans and spend money on computers and nonessential living expenses. Then they cry when they can't get a job with a degree in trans gender unicorn studies
Losing accreditation is one way to having skin in the game.
Then it should not be a functional requirement for students to have a computer, housing, or food as part of the university experience. Problem solved.
Thirty four characters live here.
Then people need to start thinking of it like an investment, and asking themselves is it worth putting their time and money into it? Treating it like a "gotta have it" is why there are so many problems. Just walk away, keeping your money, and time. Let the educational system and the rest of society worry about the consequences, since they're not concerned about what's happening now.
Your university is trying to teach you some social skills. Perhaps chocolate milk night isn't such a bad idea... and might actually get you laid.
Our financial institution will lend you money for a house based on our evaluation of your ability to repay the loan.
Our institution will lend you money for schooling without regard to the job from your education paying you enough to repay the loan.
So, like indenture?
Finally a modicum of rationality
Thanks Reagan, Bush, Bush and tRump, for 21.2 TRILLION in debt and rising.
Before you scream Obama, who raised the debt only 83% compared to 43's 113%, remember he was FIXING the Bush mess and DID have the greatest expansion since 1940 in American history.
[....,,,,,;;:"/'] <--- Free punctuation kit! (Copy & paste as needed)
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Nothing is free. The school is subsidized through taxes.
And here it is, the end result of the Fascist agenda of Wall Street and their pay off for the price of buying the Dems and the GOP these last 45+ years. Enjoy your slavery you fucking assholes. Much worse is to come. By 2030, if can't pay that $10,000 ambulance fee and $500,000 overnight stay for a broken leg you will legally be able to sold into "debt servitude" since bankruptcy for private citizens will be outlawed The primacy US is over, and Wall Street knows it. Their plan is to enslave all you fuckers through debt, prison and military service while playing 2nd fiddle to China and the BRICS You want your freedoms? You'd better get out in the streets and BLEED FOR IT
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First, you are clearly only talking about US universities since with a few institutional exceptions, most universities outside the US are not awash with lots of money. Second, your statements are precisely opposed to one another. You want universities to be focussed on the dollar value of the benefit to students and then want them to worry more about education and less about being a business.
The problem with universities today are the plethora of pseudo-universities which have sprung up to fill the void left by declining school standards. These new institutions offer dubious qualifications at great expense to the student and/or the government funding them. They find willing students only because many employers no longer trust school qualifications and now require degrees, diplomas etc. for jobs which never used to require them. Funding them by what is effectively indentured servitude is just going to make things a lot worse.
We need to fix this by raising school standards to the point where employers can use them for a wide range of jobs. While this will cost money it will also save a lot of money by making these pseudo-universities unnecessary.
Then it should not be a functional requirement for students to have a computer, housing, or food as part of the university experience. Problem solved.
Housing and food have never been considered nonessential living expenses. Every library has computers available for use, so they would be considered nonessential purchases. Your argument fails.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
You could say Trump is fixing Obamaâ(TM)s mess.
You mean US universities are businesses first and foremost. Here in Norway they're all run directly by the state and free of charge for all students. Parts of academia are arguably wasteful, but university salaries here are significantly lower than in the private sector (yet more competitive to get into), so most people that are willing to live with more work for lower wages are those that are genuinely interested in their research.
What the heck. You won't learn how to be a good software developer by taking some ROTE class at an 'academy'. First off, just the terminology used: "code" should be a giveaway.
Just like in the 1980's when 'Computer Science Degree' was something that drone dullards 'took' in college 'because there was money in it', these Code Academies are mills to produce useless drones. Credentialed useless drones, of course, but that isn't much.
A student loan is also a form of "income share agreement" - you get the money, you don't have to pay it until you have graduated and can extend that payback until you get a job. The benefit of a student loan is that they're backed by the government and more transparent than these schemes.
I get similar offers from car dealerships: 0% interest loans, pay what and when you want but the details are in the fine print, all the 'costs' of the loan are included upfront so the interest is calculated and added on to the principal, if you don't pay, you still have interest tacked on for the month and it's often harder to understand the fine details so they often have weird fees that can add on months of payment over the life of the loan.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
No, you're right. For over 1000 years, universities have been about research and scholarship. Quite different to education. It was only after WWII that they were massively expanded and positioned as gatekeepers to higher salary employment. As a result we're suffering a glut of graduates without employable skills and a shortage of graduates with tradeskills. We don't need more graduates who can write in genres that nobody ever reads unless they're paid to, i.e. academic essays.
The majority of students today drive their own cars, have their own apartments, eat out daily, drink weekly, and take expensive vacations in the tropics every year.
In my day, you lived with your parents and took the city bus to school. Worked through the summer and part time during the year to pay your own tuition and books. No loans required. (Student loans were not available to students with middle class parents anyway.)
It is a matter of managing expectations.
Though it is possible that students today know that they will never achieve that high standard of living in their working life (having see what happened to our generation), so they take the student loans to enjoy the good life while they can. Something to be said for that I guess.
America should just bring back serfdom.
That is what this looks like from the outside.
It's funny how the university is "funding" the loans with "their own money". It's like me loaning you $20 to pay me with, plus the obligation to pay me later. I guess, as opposed to just lowering the school cost according to market rules, this allows the education sector to achieve the holy grail of business, rent-seeking.
American populace has found the next level after indebtness. Wage garnishing for services.
Hence the reason that daughter plans on going into the Air Force for at least one 4-year enlistment. She is a fantastic student, but my wife and I simply cannot afford the price of college. In the military you can attend night classes and get a 4-year degree in 2.5 years. You stay debt free while all the while not paying for your accommodations, food, or health/dental needs. A win-win. If she likes it, she can then tell the Air Force she wants to become an officer and attend Officer Candidate School. 13 weeks later, she would emerge a 2nd Lieutenant, effectively doubling her income, again, all the while remaining debt free and paying nothing for accomodations, food, and health/dental. If she marries a man in the Air Force, and they do 20 years, she will be 39, have a steady life-long retirement income, pay only $500 year to Tri-Care health/dental, and still be young enough to have a second career. If SS isn't screwed over, she will then have three retirement incomes, setting herself up for financial independence.
Actually, the majority of education funding comes from individual states, not the federal government. Blame your state govt for expensive and poor quality education.
Yup, you described how I got through school almost exactly. Not good for the social life, but living with your parents saves a ton of money.
Um, the government pays for 100% of your education k-12, or do you not consider that education? And as for university, so long as you aren't rich, there's a fair number of grants available. Just because you don't think you're rich doesn't mean that you aren't. I got government grants for 4K a year, and the only requirement was to apply for them before a deadline. It didn't pay for everything, but it helped.
I went to a State school and was forced to pay for a meal plan even though the branch i attended didnt have a cafeteria.
I was also told that Accounting 101 was a "laptop madatory" course, and that a school laptop would be $4k+ for a $1k machine.
Then there are books, supplies, housing, and other jacked up prices anywhere near a college.
Its not a business, its a straight up SCAM all at the taxpayers expense.
Student loans there's nothing to repossess. That made declaring bankruptcy in the past a very tempting position.(Get your degree, declare bankruptcy and they can't take the education out of your head.) Actually I remember hearing a story somewhere that triggered this change to make the secured was actually from a med student. They completed medical school and were starting residency. They did the math and saw if they declared bankruptcy that right as they finished their residency (where they'd finally start making the big bucks) the bankruptcy would be so old to not affect them financially. So since they didn't have a ton of money they figured, hey it's in my financial best interest to just declare bankruptcy since I have so little now creditors aren't going to get anything anyway.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
You share your income with the state (taxes) and the state gives you free or very cheap universities.
The system also works for roads, highways, bridges, healthcare, pensions ...
You should try it some time.
All he needs to do is declare student loans to be unsecured. This will mean banks will be hesitant to loan an average student 100k to get a useless degree that is not likely to pay off. There will be less students getting school loans, so colleges will have to lower tuition. Because the students will be financing their own education, the quality of that education will go up.
50 years ago a young person could work their way through a degree. This is very very difficult today. What happened? Feel good liberals passed laws guaranteeing student loans. This has had a paradoxical affect of making college unaffordable to anyone but the very very rich.
So... they basically reinvented Australia's old HECS system?
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Why don't you start with the coaches. They are consistently the highest paid staff in universities in every state of the US.
I exert the effort to speak 2u who I used to call "King Billy" (in another galaxy far, FAR away) : The FUTURE truly IS now...
* :)
(I'm not a "product" of my environment (Actually I'd be a mathematical outlier on a linear optimization curve (but @ least I'm ORIGINAL))).
Ahem - IMPORTANT - you're NOT anymore. Tools "developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS"?
Non-sequitur/Inconsequential.
APK
P.S.=> LONG-LIVE THE REPUBLIC my people that still possess' self-determination spine... apk
About 13 years ago, some people in the State Government pushed Texas A&M University to create a spreadsheet, which accounted for every staff member's contributions to the University. There was some backlash to that. They then tried to do it to the University of Texas, and there was then a big backlash. This was before student loans was a popular issue politically.
Very informative Ivan. I'm sure Russia would love to fill the geopolitical void left by a less educated America.
Why don't you rally against the EPA and their pussy ass unleaded gasoline and why the fuck do my tax dollars give people FREE clean drinking water??? I can afford bottled water I shouldn't have to pay money so that welfare queens can and their 12 kids can guzzle down liters of clean refreshing drinking water with no jobs.
PS When I was in Russia I tested the quality of the bottled water there. I didn't get sick but none of the 3 different brands we tested were considered safe to drink by American standards. Enjoy your lead you low life spam monkey.
1) Schools are far too focused on athletics instead of academics. Most would think that the University President is the highest paid staff member. Nope - it's the football coach. Sometimes by a huge margin. I would submit that the football coach contributes nothing towards the academic advancement of the students. Worse than that, he only contributes directly to members of the football team. But he does help to bring in lots of money for the school so that sort of tells you where the priorities lie.
2) You cannot use bankruptcy to get out from under crushing student loans. Unlike almost any other kind of debt. You can walk away from a $1,000,000 mortgage but you can't walk away from $100,000 of student loans. Further, you have little to no leverage to negotiate payments. The lenders and schools know this, of course, which helps to explain the obscene profits made off the backs of students.
3) HR drones. Sadly they continue to be the gatekeepers to jobs. Most of them know nothing about the jobs they are screening for and simply follow a script and screen resumes for key words. I think that department managers should do the screening (with help from experts on their teams) to determine who gets interviewed and hired. HRs one and only role should be to prevent the company from being sued for harassment and misconduct. Roll out the yearly sexual harassment videos and put up posters when its time to sign up for benefits. Otherwise stay the fuck out of the way.
4) Degree requirements. Apart from occupations like Doctor, Lawyer, Architect, Structural Engineer, etc. I fail to see how a 4 year degree is necessary. All that matters in most cases is attitude and aptitude. Having a degree does not guarantee either of those qualities. I have worked with people with masters degrees that were as dumb as a bag of rocks. I have met really smart people, with and without degrees. Some companies are beginning to realize this by adding "in lieu of" clauses in the job description where they accept relevant experience in place of a degree so there is hope yet.
Feel free to add to the list :-)
The problem with your assertion is that wages have been far outgrown by tuition fees.
At $7 an hour 8 hours a day it would take 4.5 years of work to afford a single yearâ(TM)s tuition at Brown. The idea that you can get a summer job to pay for your tuition these days is completely crazy.
By the government, you mean the taxpayers. More than half of my property taxes go to the public school system.
You got it in one...
People don't seem to understand that the Democrats (leftists) don't want equal opportunity, they want equal outcomes for everyone. To them, nothing else is fair. The left want everyone to act and look different (bogus diversity), but everyone to think exactly alike. If you don't agree with them, you're a bigot, a racist, a misogynist, or whatever other labels they toss around. Being a leftist really means that you think it's possible to pick up a turd by the "clean end".
I don't want big daddy government doing anything for me in the way of handouts. I don't want or need a "free" education, which is actually paid for by the taxes of those who do work. People of the last generation and now have a problem with expectation. They expect others to do something for them while they do nothing but consume. Someone has to pay for everything. People want free email and then complain about Google, et al, spying on them. What do you expect? You PAYING with your privacy. A domain name and minimal hosting cost less than 6 overpriced lattes. Own your own comms.
My wife and I both paid our own way through college. No handouts. We both worked full time jobs while attending. I graduated owing no one anything. I intentionally chose to attend a small college on the mid east coast with no sports teams or other BS so the focus of the school would be on education. They did a stellar job giving me a great IT education.They even got me an internship at Network Solutions during my last year because my GPA was a 4.0. NelSol hired me out of school for decent coin and I learned more about domain names, registrar/registry, DNS, and *nix than I ever needed to know. That job set me up for a decent IT career that I still have. I went from $35k as an intern to $107 in just 4.5 years. I did this on my own with no handouts other than people recognizing my hard work and effort to get ahead on my own. Granted Northern Virginia is an expensive place to live, but it's all relative. I hate the summers, but the winters are great. (NYC, I miss you).
Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. No one owes you anything. Anything you own should be because you got off your ass and worked for it. I realize the leftists here will flame me for this post, but they know I'm right. And before anyone says I'm some privileged white kid with blue chip parents, you'd be wrong on both counts. I was hungry to make it because when I was a kid, we had very little. Almost everything I had was rationed. My dad was an immigrant with zero education. My mother was grew up a poor southern girl with nothing but a HS education. If I can do this, anyone can.
Then they cry when they can't get a job with a degree in trans gender unicorn studies
To some degree it's their fault, but they get to college and are pushed into the major by a counselor, told that they can make lots of money after graduating with a college degree, so they don't worry about it.
Yes, they should have done their own research, but we don't always know everything we should do. There's a lot.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Miinimum wage is higher than $7/hour. I made more than that 20 years ago in college. My tuition&board back then was about $8k/year at a public university. I would make about $150/week working parttime. That pretty much covered everything I needed. I took out about 8k worth of loans and took a semester off to work at a coop with HP for about double minimum wage to save up a little more.
Now checking the college I graduated from prices have doubled since then so yearly tuition is now 10k and board another 10k but if you live at home that drops it back down to a very reasonable 10k/year which is very doable on a part time job especially if you can find a full time job during the summer.
Having been a student pretty recently (got my master's degree papers in 2016) what you're describing sounds way more like some rich trust fund kid than the average student.
The few of my fellow students that had cars were bangers used to commute from places barely served by public transport, nobody I knew actually owned their own apartment, daily "eating out" was just subsidized lunches at the school cafeteria, drinking was mostly at unlicensed student dives way cheaper than a regular bar and vacation trips were mostly to nearby cities to stay with friends or relatives living in them.
On top of that, people still worked on the side and particularly during the summers. Before I was able to get far along enough to be able to work in my own field during the summers I worked in construction during the summer and actually ended up having to delay my graduation because of working practically full time on the side while studying. A close friend of mine moonlighted as a security guard the whole time I knew him and actually liked the work.
Seriously thou, old people have complained about how young people are lazy, disrespectful and that we're doomed as a society because of them since at least Plato's times, but here we still are. Thus it's beyond obvious that new generations being worse than their predecessors isn't any less false than it was back in Plato's times.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
tuition is now 10k and board another 10k but if you live at home that drops it back down to a very reasonable 10k/year which is very doable
Is off-campus accommodation free in your state or do you expect people to only go to universities within commuting distance of their parents' house?
The whole point of school loans is for poor families who can't support their kids. If their kids live with them, then they're paying extra for the larger apartments required to accommodate everyone. Even if the parents own the house, they're still giving up living space that could be generating rental income. In other words, they'd be indirectly paying for their kids rent.
Yes, they should have done their own research, but we don't always know everything we should do. There's a lot.
I'd say even doing the research is not always meaningful. In the 4 years it takes for you to graduate, markets will have changed. If a career was in high demand and paying a lot, a ton of students will choose the corresponding major. But when they graduate, there might be so many of them all at once that they flood the market. This happened to biology and chemistry majors back in 2010.
Asking them to choose good majors is basically impossible when that choice changes from year to year. I mean if they were good at predicting the market years in advance, then they could just skip the college and make a living on Wall Street instead.
ii'd trade my future as Maxine waters' whipping boy for 40 kilos of c4 and a trebuchet.
Parents should just give their kids loans and get it back once they earn. Take an equity or something. No $ ? Responsible parents have a better chance at getting a better-interest rate.
It's as if millions of liberal arts college's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
If there was ever a reason to join the dark side (besides cookies), this would be it.
What's your reason for being unable to produce wares even /. users LIKE & USE like I do (now in Linux) https://it.slashdot.org/commen...
* OH, I know (& so does everyone else to YOUR public dismay & humiliation which your UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts only PROVE for me all the more)... you're a waste of life UNDEREDUCATED all cheap "talk" imbecile.
APK
P.S.=> It has to SUCK to be a total DOUCHE loser like you, lol - but you DO have 1 somewhat redeeming quality (lmao) - CHUMP do-nothing "ne'er-do-wells" like YOU do MAKE ME look GOOD @ your wasted life expense (hahahahaha)... apk
some schools force on-campus at high cost even when you can rent on your own for less (solo) vs paying more to live with room mates.
Is off-campus accommodation free in your state or do you expect people to only go to universities within commuting distance of their parents' house?
The whole point of school loans is for poor families who can't support their kids. If their kids live with them, then they're paying extra for the larger apartments required to accommodate everyone. Even if the parents own the house, they're still giving up living space that could be generating rental income. In other words, they'd be indirectly paying for their kids rent.
Kids starting college are already living at home so that cost is already a sunk cost. Most parents don't immediately downsize when their kids go to college.
Most parents are perfectly fine letting their kids stay in the house a few extra years. Also, most people live within driving distance of a 4 year college and
even more live within driving distance of a community college. Some kids live with an aunt or uncle that happens to live near a college. There are a lot of
other paths as well that don't involve huge amounts of debt. The idea that huge amounts of debt is the best way to pay for college is ludicrous.
Lots of schools require Freshman to live on campus at about $12k/ year
Maybe colleges and universities have to take the HMO model and assume some of the risk. You know, make the loans to students themselves, and they don't have to pay it back if they flunk out or if they don't have decent income afterwards? There's a lot of BS going on on all sides; students just HAVE to have dorms that are like five star hotels etc. in some instances. Colleges that HAVE to have campuses that rival those of the vatican for cost and loveliness. And so on. "The college experience" - pay $200K for partying for four years. Me? I went to school at a community college for 2 years then at night for 8.5 dreary years. But I graduated debt free; you pay one way or you pay another, but I got an MS by time I was done.
Sometimes it means you do not live in University housing but choose a school closer to where you grew up and commute to school. It also means you do not have to take the incredibly overpriced food plans at the university.
You don't need to pay your student loans when you're unemployed. Just file for Income Based Repayment once a year. If your income is zero, then your payment will be zero. There are other options available too, but I'm only familiar with the one that I use.
most people live within driving distance of a 4 year college and even more live within driving distance of a community college.
I don't think that's true for a lot of people living in the countryside. Sometimes your nearest grocery store is a 1 hour drive away.
But even if you have one nearby, is it a good university? Does it accept you? There is a huge earning difference between a graduate from a top university and the more run-of-the-mill kind. The median Stanford graduate earns $85k upon graduation (source). The median for UCLA is only $59k, despite it being the one of the best schools in Los Angeles. If you live in LA and you're good enough to be accepted by both, there's every reason to take on a loan to go to Stanford.
True, however what they don't tell you is the total you owe grows as well. That's not solving the problem, just deferring it till your death. So since death is the only out, defer all debts till death, and have no kids, or estate that will be burdened by it.
I keep hearing this trope, but 100% of the people I know with gender studies degrees easily make over $800k a year. Granted I know a lot won't make that much, but it's the same with computer science; just because you graduated school doesn't mean you will find a job in the field.
> Sorry to say it, but universities are not about learning or education, they are a business first, foremost, and above all.
That's the first lesson I learned after high school. One that *nobody* in high school ever even hinted it. Instead, we were told it's *hard* to get in a university. No. No, it's absolutely not. They'll let in anyone because they fully expect a large percentage of unqualified first-year students to leave even before the first semester is over - so, easy up-front money for them, and they don't have to deal with a large number of students during a program's subsequent years.
University is not about education - it's about getting money from kids who shouldn't ever be there in the first place.
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Zontar you = a self-admitted loon https://slashdot.org/comments.... !
... apk
You make sockpuppets https://slashdot.org/comments.... to troll me with (effete & weak like you Sweden soyboy letting your women be raped by muslims)
&
You blow your easily nullified 'downmodpoints' on me ADMITTEDLY https://slashdot.org/comments.... when you can't prove what I post on hosts files is wrong + You obviously SELF-UPMOD YOURSELF via sockpuppets you make (TrollingForHostsFiles, proof in 2nd link above)!
+
You send me postcards with threats in them too whacko https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
* LAYOFF THE DRUGS https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org] UBI soyboy!
APK
P.S.=> Don't start up w/ me 1st Zontar https://slashdot.org/comments....
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No, you can't, since Obama created the recovery tRump is bragging about while he gums up the works
Meanwhile, his "No due process" immigration policy has produced a BILLION dollars in civil damages just waiting for lawyers
And meanwhile, America is LESS well regarded, and LESS able to get allies in order to spread the empire.
No, nothing tRump has done has improved anything
Like that extra 1TRILLION per year of deficit.
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This would hold universities accountable for result$ in the real world. They won't like it and fight that tooth and nail.
Except Purdue started doing it two years ago.
Don't let facts distract you from your anti-intellectual rant though.
I'm not even sure this is a good idea, but a few schools are trying it. I can respect them for taking a chance and giving students more options.
Especially since student loans are a really bad option, at least in the US.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.