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Some Colleges Cautiously Embrace Wikipedia (chronicle.com)

Megan Zahneis, writing for The Chronicle of Higher Education: Academics have traditionally distrusted Wikipedia, citing the inaccuracies that arise from its communally edited design and lamenting students' tendency to sometimes plagiarize assignments from it. Now, LiAnna Davis, director of programs for Wikipedia's higher-education-focused nonprofit arm Wiki Education, said, higher education and Wikipedia don't seem like such strange bedfellows. At conferences these days, "everyone's like, 'Oh, Wikipedia, of course you guys are here.'"

"I think it's a recognition that Wikipedia is embedded within the fabric of learning now," she said. One initiative Davis oversees at Wiki Education aims to forge stronger bonds between Wikipedia and higher education. The Visiting Scholars program, which began in 2015, pairs academics at colleges with experienced Wikipedia editors. Institutions provide the editors with access to academic journals, research databases, and digital collections, which the editors use to write and expand Wikipedia articles on topics of mutual interest. A dozen institutions, including Rutgers University, Brown University, and the University of Pittsburgh, are participating.

34 of 65 comments (clear)

  1. Fine, but by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even in the old days, you wouldn't use an Encyclopedia to get a general overview of a topic that you were unfamiliar with. For a topic you cared about, you would look for something more in-depth.

    Wikipedia is better than the old days because of the citations, and because of its greater breadth. However, it's not an authority on anything, and is often wrong. If it's a topic you care about, you need to look at the sources and citations. You can't use it for anything more than an entry-point to knowledge.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Fine, but by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have always considered Wikipedia to be an overview and an index. It does rapidly collect some of the best articles on a given subject. Especially if you look in the history for citations that have been removed!

    2. Re:Fine, but by rnturn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ``Wikipedia is better than the old days because of the citations...''

      Oh, if I had a nickel for every Wikipedia reference that turned out to be a link to a page that no longer exists. It almost makes you wonder: Did that page ever exist? If it doesn't exist any more, why wouldn't someone editing pages clean it up? I can see why academics would balk at someone using Wikipedia as a source.

      ``You can't use it for anything more than an entry-point to knowledge.''

      There you go... spot on.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    3. Re:Fine, but by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      That is the difference between Wikipedia and a paper Encyclopedia. Wikipedia can be in-depth about more topic than a paper book can even mention. While the Encyclopædia Britannica is 32 volumes long, Wikipedia put in a similar format would be about 3000 volumes long. Making it bigger than most libraries.

      And while a paper Encyclopedia cannot ever be updated or corrected, and anything it says just has to be taken as true because even if it contains a citation, good luck getting your hands on every single book an Encyclopedia cites. That would be a task that would take a lifetime.

      Wikipedia solved all these issues.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    4. Re:Fine, but by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Oh, if I had a nickel for every Wikipedia reference that turned out to be a link to a page that no longer exists.

      You know what's even better than that? Finding out that Wikipedia has cited one of your web pages (on my personal vanity site, no less...) in an article which you cited on that very same page. One (me, in fact) wonders how many circular citations like this you can find on Wikipedia.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Fine, but by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By the 8th grade in public schools, teachers stop accepting Encyclopedias as a source. I don't see why we should accept Wikipedia as a source either.

      This isn't to say that even in College or even Post-Grad work that Encyclopedias or now Wikipedia isn't useful for research, but it is used as a start of knowledge. Just because if you are looking at something new, you may not even know what questions to ask and what material to read up on, for you to actually get information needed to actually start the real research.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Fine, but by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "For a topic you cared about, you would look for something more in-depth."

      It sure beats a creationist schoolbook from Kansas.

    7. Re:Fine, but by gravewax · · Score: 1

      unfortunately citations are often just as wrong or biased. basically without good reference of who is editing/writing the material and therefore controlling the content you shouldn't trust it. It can be handy for fast answers on shit that really doesn't matter, but using it for anything of value even with citations is dodgy as hell.

    8. Re: Fine, but by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's why you check the citations.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Fine, but by sabbede · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by, "you wouldn't use an Encyclopedia to get a general overview of a topic..."? Isn't that what half of encyclopedias are for? One kind of encyclopedia is a detailed compendium of knowledge about one topic, the other is a summary of every topic. The latter, where you find the Britannica and Wikipedia, is exactly what one would use to get general overviews of various topics!

    10. Re: Fine, but by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I meant "would" but mistyped :)

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re: Fine, but by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess that's to be expected when posting form an abacus. I withdraw my doubts about your sanity.

    12. Re: Fine, but by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The calculations are tough I admit, but the aesthetic of confusion makes up for it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  2. Some colleges embrace Wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Citation neededÂ

  3. Citations do not make something true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That is the biggest "crossed wires" insanity of Wikipedia: Citations are never checked but blindly believed as making somthing autoritative, while original research is literally *forbidden*.

    WHILE having an article on "argument from autority" being a logical fallacy.

    The cognitive dissonance there is hopeless. The entire culture is as cluelessly pseudoscientific as an esoteric new age convention hosted by a church.

    And then on top, "anyone can edit" has become a blatant lie. Sure, you can edit. And it's gonna be reverted to the POV of an admin in mere minutes! If not outright blocked for a "review" where "delete" is he only option ever used. Admins that are the unemployed mentally unstable disgruntled type in a dirty wifebeater and no underwear. Because those who can... do. Those who can't do, ... teach. Ant those who can't teach, ... become admins for Wikipedia.
    But only if they can both echo what they memorized about the scientific model, and entirely miss its point and not understand it, at the same time.

  4. Why pay for a Wiki education? by xack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whole point of higher education is that you are getting educated from a reliable source, and that the tuition you pay justifies it. If colleges are just going to tell you to read Wikipedia for four years then why bother going?

    1. Re:Why pay for a Wiki education? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If colleges are just going to tell you to read Wikipedia for four years then why bother going?

      The certificate that gets you past the auto-rejection algorithm at a job interview.

    2. Re:Why pay for a Wiki education? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The place of higher education gets to enjoy the loans wile the students reads from the internet.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Why pay for a Wiki education? by novakyu · · Score: 1

      As a teacher, when I link to Wikipedia in any of my course pages, it's because I have personally verified that what is on that particular Wikipedia page is true. That is the general rule of thumb for my classes (and I assume for other teachers who haven't checked out): Feel free to use online resources but beware of their accuracy; trust the online resources I link you out to as your teacher.

    4. Re:Why pay for a Wiki education? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      The whole point of higher education is that you are getting educated from a reliable source, and that the tuition you pay justifies it. If colleges are just going to tell you to read Wikipedia for four years then why bother going?

      Education is moving away from the 19th century module of facts and figures, and into the 21st century of analysis. It's moving very slowly, but it's become obvious it's the way to go.

      Facts and figures were appropriate in the 19th century because it was hard to distribute, search and acquire information, so one could be more "educated" simply by knowing more. It's why tests are still a 19th century instrument of factual recall.

      But today, we have facts and figures at our fingertips. There's no need to memorize facts and figures anymore, because it's all so easily looked up in an instant. Rote memorization isn't as useful.

      Instead, the 21st century education system needs to go one further - given everyone has access to all the facts and figures, one needs to be able to analyze, evaluate and process them. The current education system is not set up to do this - to be able to take facts and figures, analyze them and figure out what's "fake news," "exaggerated," "contains omissions," or other errors. (Talking about real fabricated news here, not "news that puts Donald Trump in a less than positive light" "fake news"0.

      That's unfortunately where college education generally comes in - in general, that's where the skills necessary to function in today's world comes in .

  5. The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by DatbeDank · · Score: 2

    I was always quite fond of Wikipedia to simplify my researching and outlining needs. No need to copy it verbatim when you have direct primary citations and an outline ready to go. That's like 50% of the BS that goes into writing that busy work.

    Concerned somene will motice? Swap a section or two around. The burden of proof is on the over worked and under paid professor.

    Made getting through the stupid stuff that much better. I loved those fools who said, "But you'll never learn it and then be screwed when you're at your job and can't do it". Yeah joke's on you because most of the crap classes I had to write research papers in have zero bearing on what I'm doing today.

    1. Re:The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Concerned somene will motice? Swap a section or two around.

      Yes that doesn't work. It's usually blindingly obvious when the student has copied a source (paragraph swapping not withstanding) because 99 times out of 100 the writing is far more coherent.

      You think you're pulling a fast one, you're not. You probably got away with it because it's extra paperwork for the professor and hey it's your education.

      Yeah joke's on you because most of the crap classes I had to write research papers in have zero bearing on what I'm doing today.

      Wait so the joke's on them because you spent your money and got a narrower education than you could have done. Har har har! So funny! lol.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes that doesn't work. It's usually blindingly obvious when the student has copied a source (paragraph swapping not withstanding) because 99 times out of 100 the writing is far more coherent.

      I think he was saying to use the article for you outline, and write your own text. As organizing your thoughts and presentation can take some time, I can see how this would help. But you would still be writing out the text, and may even have different conclusions... Disclaimer: When I was in school, there was no wikipedia...

    3. Re:The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Concerned somene will motice? Swap a section or two around.

      Yes that doesn't work. It's usually blindingly obvious when the student has copied a source (paragraph swapping not withstanding) because 99 times out of 100 the writing is far more coherent.

      You think you're pulling a fast one, you're not. You probably got away with it because it's extra paperwork for the professor and hey it's your education.

      Between my undergraduate and MBA at two different ivy league schools it seems that the best that academia had to offer couldn't snuff out my act. Spejnt more time socializing, networking, and all around being the fun guy that makes connections.

      Yeah joke's on you because most of the crap classes I had to write research papers in have zero bearing on what I'm doing today.

      Wait so the joke's on them because you spent your money and got a narrower education than you could have done. Har har har! So funny! lol.

      Yup joke's on me! I skipped out on learning why white men are evil, why we should put under performing minorities first, how women are oh so oppressed, and how capitalism is the invention of satan (heard this crap during when I was finishing up my MBA). Instead of wasting my time filling my brain with degenerate Marxist thinking and nihilist deconstructionism, I spent more time networking which is why I am farther along in my career.

      But please, do tell me how I missed out on the indoctrination! I'd love to hear how I missed out while I cash these cheques at the bank.

    4. Re: The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You got an MBA. It is no surprise at all you are more interested in socializing than learning. The empty-headed MBA is basically a stereotype by now. I also expect you cheat, lie, and steal.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:The"Wikipedia" Rewrite by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      >

      Wait so the joke's on them because you spent your money and got a narrower education than you could have done. Har har har! So funny! lol.

      Or as one of my professors said, "If you don't want to learn that's not my problem. We've already gotten your money..."

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  6. Also textbooks? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    The whole point of higher education is that you are getting educated from a reliable source, and that the tuition you pay justifies it. If colleges are just going to tell you to read Wikipedia for four years then why bother going?

    Most college courses teach from textbooks, too!

    Why go to college if you could just buy and read the textbooks?

    College is such a ripoff...

  7. Simple Solution: Create your *own* by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    If these Universities weren't a a bunch of idiots they would create their OWN _shared_ version of Wikipedia.

    Imagine this:

    * Having EVERY article be peer reviewed by actual professors!

    And if they were smart they would band together and create a UNIFIED open source Textbook+. I say Textbook+ because it could be: Encyclopedia + Textbook + Reference + Examples + Pseudocode + Implementation.

    Maybe next century?

    1. Re:Simple Solution: Create your *own* by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Best to print such articles by the professors as a codex and store them at a central location on campus. Some sort of library with the codex material indexed for easy reading.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  8. why pay $250+ for a book that professor wrote by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    why pay $250+ for a book that professor wrote and gets changed each year?

    1. Re:why pay $250+ for a book that professor wrote by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and when it time for the professor to rip a page out of book to stop the used market what are you going to do fail the class?

  9. never doubt the overall excellence of Wikipedia by swell · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I vaguely recall noting 50 years ago that Encyclopedia Britannica was written by ~100 august scholars with impeccable credentials. So I assumed that these grey haired fossils essentially assigned their grad students to do whatever actual work or research was required. This did not inspire confidence. [yes, you may assume that now I am a grey haired fossil]

    This wiki thing is written by thousands of all ages and widely varying credentials. That is wonderful. Many are experts on only one topic and very current. Many have access to unique sources of information. Many are passionate about a topic or two. Yes, it's undoubtedly true that some will distort facts to meet their obsessions. I tend to believe that most are altruistic and bend over backward to uncover unbiased truth.

    I have never doubted the overall excellence of Wikipedia. Of course, an article about a controversial person, such as the current US president, may well be spiked with distortions. Such articles draw very emotional editors. We all know that and are cautious in our acceptance. But reading about most subjects should be reasonably worthwhile.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:never doubt the overall excellence of Wikipedia by gravewax · · Score: 1

      Of course, an article about a controversial person, such as the current US president, may well be spiked with distortions. Such articles draw very emotional editors. We all know that and are cautious in our acceptance. But reading about most subjects should be reasonably worthwhile.

      This is actually the core problem with Wikipedia, you do not want emotional or bias editors, you want people interested in recording facts. Sadly this means Wikipedia is extremely biased in anything slightly controversial or polarizing, political and conflict related and this applies for anything current or historical. That is a lot of very important content that is completely untrustworthy on Wikipedia.

  10. Too much personal bias by johnsie · · Score: 1

    Too many people editing Wikipedia have personal agendas that they are pushing. This makes some articles a bit misleading, even if they are well cited.