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Evidence Detected of Lake Beneath the Surface of Mars (cnn.com)
For decades Mars has teased scientists with whispers of water's presence. Now they have some solid evidence. From a report: The Italian Space Agency announced Wednesday that researchers have detected signs of a large, stable body of liquid water locked away beneath a mile of ice near Mars' south pole. The observations were recorded by the Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding instrument -- Marsis for short. "Marsis was born to make this kind of discovery, and now it has," says Roberto Orosei, a radioastronomer at the National Institute for Astrophysics, who led the investigation. His team's findings, which appear in this week's issue of Science, raise tantalizing questions about the planet's geology -- and its potential for harboring life. CNN elaborates: Between May 2012 and December 2015, MARSIS was used to survey the Planum Australe region, which is in the southern ice cap of Mars. It sent radar pulses through the surface and polar ice caps and measured how the radio waves reflected back to Mars Express. Those pulses reflected 29 sets of radar samples that created a map of drastic change in signal almost a mile below the surface. It stretched about 12.5 miles across and looked very similar to lakes that are found beneath Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets on Earth. The radar reflected the feature's brightness, signaling that it's water. "We interpret this feature as a stable body of liquid water on Mars," the authors wrote in the study.
This one about Mars having water, another one telling roughly the same about the moon. It's a draw. Not sure now if I'd prefer to go to the moon or mars!
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
>> Evidence Detected of Lake Beneath the Surface of Mars (cnn.com)
The sound of Jetskis was unmistakable and annoying, even from several million miles away.
There is water - means that probably there were rivers, and consequently gold. We may witness thousands of rockets departing to Mars daily.
The original paper in Science: http://science.sciencemag.org/...
Space.com: https://www.space.com/41272-ma...
Science News: https://www.sciencenews.org/ar...
CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25...
Quaid... Start the reactor...
There was a scientist that said "There is certainly life on Mars. We put it there."
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
According to the article, the Italian space agency's Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding instrument works by transmitting pulses of low-frequency electromagnetic waves. Some of those waves interact with features at and below the Martian surface and reflect back toward the instrument, carrying clues about the planet's geological composition, but it doesn't seem to have any spectrometer component.
So, and this is an honest (and not sarcastic) question, how could you possibly know what the liquid a mile below the surface is?
We have known for some time that Antarctica's subsurface lakes are rich ecosystems. This is the first plausible location to look for life on Mars that we have discovered (as opposed to merely hypothesized).
Ice is also relatively easy to drill through, or even penetrated with an ice subterrene.
It will be a much larger operation of course than any lander mission to date, by far.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
> Mars has teased scientists with whispers of water's presence.
This is humorously bad anthropomorphizing. Mars is "teasing" and "whispering" to scientists about how wet it is?
They planned on using it to study Martian ice caps, so they wanted to call it ICE/IS. Apparently there was a problem with that name so they called it MARSIS.
Yes, it's a bad joke. I even tried not to post it, but I wouldn't let myself. I just think MARSIS is a dumb name.
...is the "mile deep" thing a mile under ice? Ice thickness = 1 mile???
Seems like Mars has plenty of water.
Social Media Mgr at Bluefield Identity
And human beings would be required to drill a mile down... and human beings contain billions of life forms on each individual. Once you send a human- life will go with them.
That said, is contamination necessarily such a bad thing? Any organisms on humans are not likely to be able to compete in Mars against species that evolved in that environment. If you stick gut bacteria in a hydrothermal vent it won't outcompete it. Terran bacteria will only overrun martian bacteria if none are still alive.
What we have to be careful of though "is detecting life" that hitched a ride with us. When you're drilling that lake you need to make sure that you don't contaminate the samples coming out.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
a large, stable body of liquid water locked away beneath a mile of ice near Mars' south pole
So some Martian accidentally pulled the plug out and all the water drained away.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
"I can't absolutely prove it's water, but I sure can't think of anything else that looks like this thing does other than liquid water," says Richard Zurek, chief scientist for the Mars Program Office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who was unaffiliated with the study.
Where the Great River of Barsoom falls deep below the surface, from the canals.....
Worse, Napoleon.
Any organisms on humans are not likely to be able to compete in Mars against species that evolved in that environment. If you stick gut bacteria in a hydrothermal vent it won't outcompete it. Terran bacteria will only overrun martian bacteria if none are still alive.
Eek. Your general assumption, that an invasive species will automatically be less suited to compete in an environment against native species is flat out wrong.
You then back it up with a very strictly limited scenario where it is not.
I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Earth organisms, living in a hyper-competitive environment, to be able to completely dominate a small and constrained ecosystem if one exists.
Earth organisms would be rats on their island.
What about invasive species? Weeds and such, they seem to out compete the native life.
How about organisms becoming stuck evolutionary at a local maximum that other organisms didn't.
Earth organisms would be seriously outnumbered, but if they found the right niche. They could have something novel that the Mars organisms just haven't had to deal with before that they aren't equipped to handle.
Any organisms on humans are not likely to be able to compete in Mars against species that evolved in that environment. If you stick gut bacteria in a hydrothermal vent it won't outcompete it. Terran bacteria will only overrun martian bacteria if none are still alive.
Eek.
Your general assumption, that an invasive species will automatically be less suited to compete in an environment against native species is flat out wrong.
You then back it up with a very strictly limited scenario where it is not.
I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Earth organisms, living in a hyper-competitive environment, to be able to completely dominate a small and constrained ecosystem if one exists.
Earth organisms would be rats on their island.
Invasive species only outcompete native species when the environment is similar. You put giant land snails in the arctic, they won't survive. You put snakehead carp in the desert they won't survive. Earth is very different in temperature, chemical make up and... well... just about everything from Mars. We're too different. Of course I'm willing to make generalizations that earth species couldn't compete (with perhaps a few extremophile exceptions- that wouldn't get there unless we deliberately placed them there).
If a species is evolved to survive Mars's chemistry- temperature- radiation levels... etc... yes... it will outcompete any species that we would accidentally take there.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
True, at the equator, the sun is only up 50% of the time. However it makes no difference if that time period is 12h (a typical earth day) or 14*24h (a typical moon 'day')
Huh? If you're running on batteries at night, 12 hours of storage is heavy but doable, 354 hours is pretty much out of the question.
We're whalers on the Mars, we carry a harpoon. But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales and sing a whaling tune"
You can visit my swimming pool, but you're not allowed to empty it out for your own personal use.
I have clear signs posted.
Also, no flip flops.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
This is just like oil. Deep into the ground.
Now Exxon can have a future in taking a resource, more valuable than gold, out of the ground.
And this time, it's far more dependable then fuel.
I see you've got a fungineering degree.
Invasive species only outcompete native species when the environment is similar.
Sure, I guess. Where "similar" is loosely defined as "area capable of sustained aerobic metabolism within the thermal requirements of the organism"
Invasive species decimate ecosystems in environments that are nothing like their own by terrestrial standards.
Since we're talking about bacteria here, it gets even scarier, since there are plenty of bacteria on this planet, right now, that wouldn't be too deterred by conditions on Mars. Or do you think Lake Vostok isn't full of life?
You put giant land snails in the arctic, they won't survive.
Sure. And if you put a Vibrio bacterium in your gut, well outside of its happy place, it will still thrive and kill you.
You put snakehead carp in the desert they won't survive.
Very true. And if you put a butterfly in space, it won't survive either.
But there are species of cyanobacteria that call the driest place on this planet home. In fact, Chroococcidiopsis has been singled out as an ideal invasive species for Mars, should we ever decide we want to terraform the place.
We're too different.
We, where we means all the phyla native to Planet Earth, are definitely not too different.
You can measure the activity of our biosphere from space. You start throwing Earth biota, organisms that have been playing the game of life in hypercompetitive conditions for 4 billion years, on that barren rock to face a small and relatively-speaking static biome, we're going to win. We will destroy them.
Of course I'm willing to make generalizations that earth species couldn't compete
You shouldn't be, because you're wrong.
with perhaps a few extremophile exceptions
No. The places we're talking about life existing on Mars aren't extremophilic places. We're talking about deep in the soil, and deep under ice in cold lakes. There are literally millions of species on this planet that thrive in those conditions.
If a species is evolved to survive Mars's chemistry- temperature- radiation levels... etc... yes... it will outcompete any species that we would accidentally take there.
Well, most scientists on the planet disagree with you, and for good reason.
You seem to have fallen prey to the idea that evolution produces the best suited resident of an environment.
It doesn't.
unleashed that which can't be contained.
Isn't that an oxymoron?
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I am sure companies would go nuts to go Mars for it!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).