Slashdot Mirror


Children Learn Best When Their Bodies Are Engaged in the Living World. We Must Resist the Ideology of Screen-Based Learning (aeon.co)

Nicholas Tampio, associate professor of political science at Fordham University in New York, writing for Aeon magazine: As a parent, it is obvious that children learn more when they engage their entire body in a meaningful experience than when they sit at a computer. If you doubt this, just observe children watching an activity on a screen and then doing the same activity for themselves. They are much more engaged riding a horse than watching a video about it, playing a sport with their whole bodies rather than a simulated version of it in an online game.

Today, however, many powerful people are pushing for children to spend more time in front of computer screens, not less. Philanthropists such as Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg have contributed millions of dollars to 'personal learning', a term that describes children working by themselves on computers, and Laurene Powell Jobs has bankrolled the XQ Super School project to use technology to 'transcend the confines of traditional teaching methodologies'. Policymakers such as the US Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos call personalised learning 'one of the most promising developments in K-12 education', and Rhode Island has announced a statewide personalised learning push for all public school students. Think tanks such as the Brookings Institution recommend that Latin-American countries build 'massive e-learning hubs that reach millions'. School administrators tout the advantages of giving all students, including those at kindergarten, personal computers.

Many adults appreciate the power of computers and the internet, and think that children should have access to them as soon as possible. Yet screen learning displaces other, more tactile ways to discover the world. Human beings learn with their eyes, yes, but also their ears, nose, mouth, skin, heart, hands, feet. The more time kids spend on computers, the less time they have to go on field trips, build model airplanes, have recess, hold a book in their hands, or talk with teachers and friends. In the 21st century, schools should not get with the times, as it were, and place children on computers for even more of their days. Instead, schools should provide children with rich experiences that engage their entire bodies.

35 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. More playtime, less school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's start there. Healthy physical and mental development isn't achieved by sitting in school. 4 hours school until puberty, then no more than 6 hours, no homework. The times when the economy had use for obedient worker drones are coming to an end, let's raise healthy children instead.

    1. Re:More playtime, less school by sittingnut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      an archaic assembly-line mindset.

      what you call "assembly-line" mindset is not "archaic", ancient, medieval, or even victorian, it is "modern". and wrong headed.

      But then who is going to warehouse these kids while their parents are at work for 8-10 hours a day.

      most human societies worked out how to raise their kids, within an extended family, with gender based division of labor, over the millennia. but advocating that sort of thing, or merely pointing it out, would result in accusations of sexism, and go against the deification and incentivization of nuclear or single parent families.

    2. Re:More playtime, less school by reboot246 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've dumbed-down the last few generations enough. Let's turn that around and get back to actually teaching them the three Rs.

      Education isn't rocket surgery. We know how to do it because we've done it before. Discipline, less political correctness, real grading, and no Common Core would be a nice start.

      This was just in the news: "Of the more than 1,000 people surveyed in May and June of this year, only one person was able to name all five First Amendment rights. A whopping 40 percent, however, couldn't name any." THAT'S the result of doing it wrong. Fix it before trying something new and unproven.

    3. Re:More playtime, less school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      most human societies worked out how to raise their kids, within an extended family, with gender based division of labor, over the millennia. but advocating that sort of thing, or merely pointing it out, would result in accusations of sexism, and go against the deification and incentivization of nuclear or single parent families.

      Did you ever think why human societies had gender based division of labor? It seems you may have but so many others have not. It's because men tend to be bigger and stronger than women. I grew up on a dairy farm and I'd be packing hay bales in the barn while my sisters would be digging up potatoes in the garden. Why would that be? Maybe it's because a hay bale weighs 40 pounds and a potato doesn't. Even though there was a time I was smaller and weaker than my older sisters I was expected to go with Dad to the barn to move bales around while Mom took my sisters to work in the garden. This is because my parents knew that in time I'd be bigger than my sisters and I needed to know how to stack hay bales. It might also be because I couldn't stomp all over the vegetables in the barn.

      Today we see women that want to make as much money as men. I don't blame them, it's with money that we get resources like housing, food, clothing, and so forth. Here's the problem though, men still are on the average bigger and stronger than women. I thought I could make good money driving a truck after I injured my knees. I thought I could sit in a truck and drive it about with bad knees like anyone else. It turns out that truck driving was a bad idea. Truck drivers don't just drive a truck, their job is to load the truck, unload the truck, and maintain the truck. There aren't many women truck drivers because after a while women find out that driving a truck is hard work. They might find a job driving a bus with a CDL but that does not pay as well as moving cargo. Often men would rather pack boxes on a truck, and get paid more for it, than deal with screaming schoolkids on a bus.

      It's not sexism or the "patriarchy" creating this division of labor. It's people finding out that little Jimmy can shovel more shit than little Jenny, and Jimmy doesn't much mind getting covered in shit if it means he doesn't have to wash dishes and scrub floors. Men and women are built differently, and this shows in the jobs they are good at and enjoy. Societies that recognize this tend to be more successful. Forcing men and women into being "equal" with the same jobs will bring a less successful society.

    4. Re:More playtime, less school by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is far more expansive then just what schools are doing. It is the entire culture and "Stranger Danger".
      Sure we want our kids to go out and play.
      But...
      The need to be supervised by a trusted adult (so the kids play time is around adults schedules)
      Cannot play with kids who are a bad influence
      Cannot walk past particular areas
      Need to setup a formal time to play with other kids
      Anyone new you that you don't know (adult or child) must be dealt with cautiously
      Also...
      Adults cannot discipline other children kids.
      Laws are written where if your kids are playing unsupervised could count a neglect.
      We do not know our neighbors so much anymore

      So for a child outside play of any useful amount is a lot of work and touted as a scary thing.. So they are better off staying at home playing video games.

      Being it takes a village to raise a child idea has been replaced with parents have ultimate authority and responsibility it is now kids who are suffering from a cultural shift from media exaggeration. Reports of dozens of child abductions a year across the country of 300 million people. Makes the problem seem bigger then it actually is. There are bigger issues such as child abuse that happens in larger number that are rarely covered.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:More playtime, less school by registrations_suck · · Score: 2

      most human societies worked out how to raise their kids, within an extended family, with gender based division of labor, over the millennia.

      Yes...and how does that work out when you nearest family member (outside of your household) is hundreds of miles away?

      Or are you advocating we all just live in whatever shit town our parents live in, with all of its associated lack of opportunity and jobs, and constrain ourselves to only breeding with people who are similarly trapped?

    6. Re:More playtime, less school by blindseer · · Score: 2

      We've dumbed-down the last few generations enough. Let's turn that around and get back to actually teaching them the three Rs.

      Education isn't rocket surgery. We know how to do it because we've done it before. Discipline, less political correctness, real grading, and no Common Core would be a nice start.

      This was just in the news: "Of the more than 1,000 people surveyed in May and June of this year, only one person was able to name all five First Amendment rights. A whopping 40 percent, however, couldn't name any." THAT'S the result of doing it wrong. Fix it before trying something new and unproven.

      Why was that modded down? We do need better teaching. We could probably start with better teachers. We're seeing elementary school teachers failing in elementary math.
      https://www.charlotteobserver....

      The complaints were that elementary school teachers were failing math testing with questions being at the difficulty of 11th grade math. Why should we expect elementary school teachers to know 11th grade math? The same reason we'd expect any other employee to know 11th grade math, because they are adults. Their job isn't just to demonstrate to children how to add minutes and hours, or count out coins, but to manage the classroom. That means being able to compute grade averages, know how much supplies will be needed for the class, and to keep the brighter than average student occupied with math problems at their level so they don't distract others.

      I have no sympathy for elementary school teachers failing a math test with material at a high school level. These are people that supposedly are intelligent and educated enough to graduate college. I don't want people teaching the next generation if they can't meet the standards of education we expect of people that ring up a sale in a grocery store.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    7. Re:More playtime, less school by blindseer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Or are you advocating we all just live in whatever shit town our parents live in, with all of its associated lack of opportunity and jobs, and constrain ourselves to only breeding with people who are similarly trapped?

      No, I'd advocate finding or creating family where you happen to go.

      I remember someone pointing out where the American stereotypes of the Chinese laundry, Indian cab driver, and Mexican field worker got started. Or at least speculating how it started. It was someone long ago coming to the USA, finding a profession at random, then hiring immigrants from where they were from to help out "family". These people may have been brothers, or cousins, or "cousins" so far removed that only their shared native language and culture connected them any more as "cousins" than anyone else in the USA. These people moved out of their "shit town" and then sought out others like them and "adopted" them as family.

      Some companies are realizing this need for family and take efforts to help new employees find a family. This is not just important in attracting and keeping productive employees but in creating a healthy society. I realized this need for family. I had a job hundreds of miles away from anyone I could recognize as family and I hated it, even though the pay was good. My decision to move back near home was largely made up for me when there was a mass layoff. My brother and his wife had a similar realization, they found jobs near "grandma and grandpa" so their kids would grow up knowing family. My sisters found work hundreds of miles away but they work near where their husbands grew up. They created a family.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    8. Re:More playtime, less school by tsa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the Netherlands we had this discussion in the 1990s. We had teachers not only failing simple math tests but also not being able to spell. We then introduced a math test for wannabe teachers. Passing that was a prerequisite for entering teacher school. Many people were devastated because they didn't want to pass math tests, they wanted to work with children. The math test, together with some other new rules made sure those people are not in front of classes anymore. Things have improved since then.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    9. Re:More playtime, less school by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      Why was that modded down? We do need better teaching. We could probably start with better teachers. We're seeing elementary school teachers failing in elementary math

      Ok. Pay more.

      Just like every other thing on the planet, you get what you pay for. We (in the US) pay teachers shitty wages. We get shitty teachers, because the only people taking the job are people who don't get a better job elsewhere. And the vast majority of that "better job" is the pay.

      So, open your pocketbook or stop whining that you are getting what you pay for.

    10. Re:More playtime, less school by Matheus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know how we got there? The first few words of the summary:

      "As a parent, it is obvious..." ...which leads to "Think of the children!!!" laws which have overly bubble-wrapped our society... ...leading to children who are unprepared to deal with the harsh realities of "life"... ...who turn into adults that need safe spaces and trigger warnings and an ever growing cocktail of psychotropics to get by...

      Enough ellipses for one post:

      Children need to fall down so they can learn to get up.
      Children need to get hurt (hopefully in non-permanent ways) so their bodies and minds know how to heal.
      Children need to be exposed to dirt and germs so their immune systems can learn to protect them.
      Children need to explore their ever growing universe on their own terms so they can experience and learn about it both in the physical and today in the digital.

      I grew up in the "Tell me where you're going, be home by dinner and then be home before dark" world.. it was a wonderful place.. Can we get back there or is it too late?

    11. Re:More playtime, less school by fossfella · · Score: 2

      In regards to trucking, some mega carriers are falling over themselves to recruit women, guess why.... Because women truckers are more than 2x less likely to be in an accident as their male counterparts. That's a true statistic, you can look it up. Better yet, check out the recruiting videos of Schneider Carriers, they have promotional videos specifically targeting women. This is not necessarily mentioned to prove or disprove your points, just an interesting stat that I was initially surprised to hear.

    12. Re:More playtime, less school by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      In many professions, agreeableness is a liability in leadership positions.

      You are begging the question.

      Women are agreeable. Agreeable is a liability. Therefore, women have a liability. This argument is both circular and makes two assertions that need to be backed up. The first is probably the easiest - that women are more "agreeable". The second - that this is a liability - is supported only by evidence that disagreeable people tend to be in leadership positions. And who is disagreeable? Men. So is the correlation men or is the correlation agreeableness? Is there bias against agreeableness because so many men already occupy leadership positions, and they promote other disagreeable people like themselves? How is this better?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    13. Re:More playtime, less school by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      And again, you are using narrative and specific examples which support your view, rather than looking at numbers and statistics. You can weave a nice story, but without supporting evidence, it's easily written off as confirmation bias.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  2. *Citation needed - Plural of anecdote is not data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I might not even necessarily disagree, but "it's obvious" DOESN'T CUT IT, when you're debating a controversial topic, and neither does being a professor of political science who seems to think that having national education standards is evil and will destroy democracy as we know it.

  3. Gee, you don't say... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doing something yourself teaches you more about it than reading about it? Who would have thought...

    So let's put little Johnny behind the wheel of that SUV, I'm pretty sure driving is more sensible for him than watching a destruction derby on the screen.

    But seriously now. That's not even close to being the problem. The problem is that children want to learn. They come into the world as little information sponges. They want to know everything. You have one simple job: Not killing that willingness to learn.

    We usually fail. No later than when we stuff them into schools. Quite frankly, so far school has managed to kill that willingness to learn in everyone.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Gee, you don't say... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      School needs to learn that students are not "raw material" but humans. Until they realize this, the whole effort is in vain.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Gee, you don't say... by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep, ignorance was good enough for pappy and grandpappy, it's good enough for junior too!

      And your next statement is a prime example of it.

      Seriously, how many kids are going to get an education with home schooling? Other than learning that God created the world in 7 days and only likes white people?

      I have three major things to say about that:

      1) It is the stupidest, most ignorant perspective on home schooling to ever exist.

      2) I used to think the same as you, being an atheist who thought the only reason homeschooling existed was so that Christians had an excuse to not teach their children about Evolution. But then I did some actual research on the subject, and found the anti-evolution angle to be an infinitesimally small part of home schooling.

      3) My atheist wife convinced me to home school our kids, and it was the best educational decision we could have possibly made. The thought of watching my kids' intellects whither under the excruciating doldrum of public school is just too unbearable for serious consideration now.

      Not only are my kids excelling at learning, they are thoroughly ENJOYING learning. This is something that gets extracted and crushed by the public school system early on.

      My wife and I have also found a great balance between screen learning and hands-on learning for each of our kids, a balance which is usually impossible to find in public school.

      As is usual for articles of this nature, it promotes a global mindset for a localized issue.

    3. Re:Gee, you don't say... by Sique · · Score: 2
      It's mostly due to the fact that:
      • a) their parents put much attention to the education of their childen.
      • b) their parents are mainly well educated themself.
      • c) their parents have many educational resources like a large stack of books about educational topics.
      • d) their parents have an above average socioeconomic background.

      All four factors rate quite highly in the educational success of children.

      So the real question is: How well fare the homeschooled children compared with children at public schools if you correct for those factors?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  4. Re:"If you doubt this, just observe children" by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By observing children, you can also learn that gummy bears are the perfect lunch. And dinner. And of course breakfast.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Re:Yes, experience is important by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TFA is not realistic. Sure, a kid will learn more riding a horse than watching a video of a horse? So what? How many parents have a horse available?

    A more realistic question is a comparison of actual realistic alternatives. Is a kid likely to learn better from a computer or a book? In many cases, the more immersive experience of the computer will win.

  6. Now testing by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 5, Funny

    To test the hypothesis I learned skydiving on youtube. Whether it works we'll know in about 1½ minute...

    --
    -- Make America hate again!
    1. Re:Now testing by zlives · · Score: 4, Funny

      Lifeform previously known as Buchenskjoll here:

      point to the article writer, however on a second note, accelerated reincarnation is totally a thing.

  7. Re:Yes, experience is important by murdocj · · Score: 2

    How about will a kid benefit from playing Farmville, or from actually getting their hands dirty? Will a kid benefit from clicking on "make some pottery" or from actually throwing a pot on the wheel? Those are the real comparisons.

  8. Re:Yes, experience is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's less expensive than you might think.

    My sister sends her kids to Chicago public schools. They have screens everywhere; they teach maths with an app because have 35 kids per class and they don't want to pay the salary for a teacher's assistant. It's horrifying and I can tell that although my nieces can manipulate the numbers OK, they have trouble applying basic arithmetic to the real world.

    I send my kids to a Waldorf school. I am aware that there is a lot of bullshit in Waldorf schools, but my kids learn about biology by taking care of the schools's sheep and planting out the school's garden. I can tell that they have a much easier time of connecting what they learn with the world around them, and it seems to stick longer and better.

    The approach is better for your kids is a hard call; all schooling philosophies have strengths and weaknesses. But the simple fact is that you can access alternative education for a fairly small financial burden if you look around. The Waldorf school is 150 EUR per child per month, of which I have two. We moved houses to be closer to it. And I am pretty solidly middle class with an income of €40k a year.

    So don't claim that putting your kids in contact with the real world is for elites; it simply is not so.

  9. VR will give the same results by Sarcasmooo! · · Score: 2

    Like it or not, the future of education is Virtual Reality. The better it gets, the more real the brain feels it is, and putting every kid in a headset will always be cheaper and more effective than constant field trips. Plus, the number of immersive environments and subjects that can be taught this way are endless.

    My field is psychology, and the research being done backs up the statement that students learn as well, or better, in a virtual reality system compared to a typical classroom.

  10. No politics or science by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "it's obvious" DOESN'T CUT IT, when you're debating a controversial topic

    This is exactly correct because it's not just a controversial topic it is also a highly complex topic. For example, it is extremely "obvious" to me that my son is far more engaged in front of a screen learning to program than he was going around several European cities on holiday this summer. So, going on this idiot's logic this clearly means that I must conclude that all students, everywhere are better off learning in front of a screen. If you also like the utterly wrong appeal to authority I'm a full professor of a real science.

    However, as a real scientist, I know that without data on many different students my observation of one student is irrelevant for determining education policy for everyone. Not only that but, unlike say electrons people do not always respond in the same way towards any one stimulus. My son loves computers and learning from a screen works well for him. My daughter does not and she definitely benefits more from non-screen learning.

    I would have expected that a vaulted associate professor of "political science" would both be politically and scientifically aware enough to know you need data to back up any argument and that people are complex and a variety of approaches is needed to get the best from everyone.

  11. It's drivel, here's why... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Neither the author nor anyone he cites has a background in child psychology, development psychology, neuroscience, or education. He also fails to cite any research supporting his claims. He does cite a few tangential pieces of philosophy, but that doesn't demonstrate any facts in support of his argument.

    While he seems to have some credentials relevant to political philosophy, he sadly lacks any discernible expertise relevant to the topic of the article.

    This is just another scarcely-informed opinion piece. We've got quite enough of those already. This is almost pointless: weak signal, mostly noise.

    --

    ---
    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  12. Re:Yes, experience is important by fropenn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can't think of any quality private schools in the US for $150 a month.

    The big story here is the continuing reluctance of the public to support effective, quality public schools for all. The push for technology has more to do with its low cost, not with effectiveness.

  13. Re:Yes, experience is important by thegarbz · · Score: 2

    TFA is utterly stupid for multiple reasons. Doing something physical that relies on learning physical techniques is not the same as doing something mental that relies on learning mental processes.

    You may not be able to use a computer to learn to ride a horse, that doesn't mean you are unable to do it to learn to solve differential equations.

  14. There is actual data on Learning Styles... by alispguru · · Score: 2

    .. and it's not very impressive. This article says: ...the current status of the literature is that there is no evidence to support the use of Learning Styles in this way [matching instruction style to student learning style improves learning]. There are lots of links in the article to the underlying studies.

    This is not exactly the same thing as screen-based vs. living-world-based learning, but it does support the idea that statements like "Children learn best when their bodies are engaged in the living world" without supporting studies are not helpful.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  15. VR by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

    VR for every student!

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  16. Bring the Garden back to KinderGarden! by laurencetux · · Score: 2

    and yes for the snarkist it is technically misspelled

    with water resistant/wireless tech there is no reason that children could not be taught OUTSIDE in a garden setting (of course have a normal classroom for when it is too wet, cold, or hot to be safe).

    as long as its "just dirt" its not a tragic thing for a kid to get muddy

  17. Re:The wrong people are talking by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

    Are you saying that those august people haven't been guiding public education for many decades?

    Not for many years. Instead, politicians and grifters have.

    "Hmm...this school's not doing well.....the teachers are paid abysmally....the building is falling down....they don't have enough textbooks for all the students.....we won't spend any money to fix any of these problems.....I know how to fix it!! Competition from charter schools!!"

  18. yeesh by rpresser · · Score: 2

    The CHILDREN! Won't SOMEBODY think of the CHILDREN???