Slashdot Mirror
China's 'First Fully Homegrown' Web Browser, Used By Key Government Bodies, Under Fire For 'Heavily' Copying Google Chrome Files (ft.com)
Redcore, a Chinese start-up that claims to have produced a homegrown browser used by key government bodies and state-run companies, has come under fire after users discovered its software was heavily based on Google's Chrome browser [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source]. From a report: The company, which says it has created "innovative and world-leading" browser technology, came under scrutiny on Thursday when users looked through the browser's installation directory and discovered an original "chrome.exe" file along with image files of the Chrome logo. "We have launched the world's only purely China-owned browser Redcore, to break the US monopoly," the company said in a statement on Wednesday. The Financial Times verified Chinese users' findings and found with its own examination that Redcore was using components from the v. 49 version of Google Chrome. "Redcore has Chrome [elements] in it," said company founder Gao Jing in response to fierce public criticism. "But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
they sure do copy a lot over there
do they ever really innovate? I mean in the last 800 years
Maybe the problem is not the browser.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Any danger of getting even the basic facts right?
Google copied them.
I thought a lot of Chrome was open source so why is this a problem? If China used a lot of Chromium and Blink engine both of which are open sourced along with WebKit. Just not sure how this is a story?
"But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
Not plagiarism? Well, that's technically correct. This would be corporate espionage at worst and copyright/trademark infringement at best. But let's leave that aside and wonder why they weren't satisfied with grabbing and using Chromium, the open source project Chrome is largely based on. I'm certain they have the technical expertise to compile and create a distribution package. That shouldn't be a high hurdle to jump, so it come back to why?
Maybe it's a political statement to Google who is trying to get back into the mainland Chinese market? We can take your & call it our own, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Also, the last bit about customer satisfaction? Is the article just weird about what questions were asked because that really feels like it came out of no where.
Internet Explorer licenced Mosaic from spyglass.
Chrome came from webkit which came from KDE's khtml
Firefox had to change its name twice from Firebird and Phoenix.
HTML came from SGML and hypertext was described in the 1940s.
All browsers claim to be Mozilla/5.0
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose ...
Meanwhile, it would have been nice to have another truly different browser added to the world, instead of another Chrome clone.
"Redcore is founded by Chen Benfeng ... Chen previously worked at ... Microsoft"
they sure do copy a lot over there
Yes they do and there is some good money in it too. But to be fair there is more than a little of it over here too.
do they ever really innovate? I mean in the last 800 years
Yes. Quite a lot actually. Sure there is a robust amounts of counterfeiting and knock off products but plenty of original work too. People used to think Japan produced nothing but crappy knockoffs too back in the 1950s and there were legitimate reasons to think that but over time it changes as the economy develops.
Need evidence of innovation? You're looking at it right now. The majority of electronics come from China and/or Taiwan. Much of this was developed by local talent without copying designs from elsewhere. Companies in every country engage in a certain amount of copying of works done elsewhere. The US and Europe are no exceptions.
Don't brag about it....
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
True innovation is coming up with something that doesn't exist, isn't even an idea, and making it happen. Making a new browser, even if the Chinese didn't steal code from Chrome, is not innovation. It's attempted improvement.
Improvement looks at what everyone else is doing and tries something different, while "standing on the shoulders of the giant". No original thought.
The reasons any tech is in China is for cheap labor and loose environmental standards. I've worked in tech and with the Chinese. We had to QC all of their work. Which was funny since they were hired to do QC.
Most browsers already are this.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
vs.
Since when taking people for idiots has become so egregious?
"But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
Not plagiarism? Well, that's technically correct.
Well, it technically is plagiarism, albeit not in the traditional domain of interpersonal communication. If code can be copyrighted, then it can be plagiarized.
This would be corporate espionage at worst and copyright/trademark infringement at best. But let's leave that aside and wonder why they weren't satisfied with grabbing and using Chromium, the open source project Chrome is largely based on. I'm certain they have the technical expertise to compile and create a distribution package. That shouldn't be a high hurdle to jump, so it come back to why?
This is a good point. I think the answer is obvious. There was never an intent to distribute this code outside of China. Hence, there were no worries about legal ramifications outside of China. The Chinese government views the use of "standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation" via direct copying and appropriating of technology as a tactic that furthers the national interest. It's not just that the Chinese government would refuse to prosecute such technology transfer that is illegal under Western laws, it openly supports, encourages, and through various Chinese laws mandates such transfers as the cost of doing business in China.
Also, if Google is willing to hold it's nose as it plays by Chinese rules in enforcing censorship and surveillance, it obviously wouldn't complain about this type of IP theft. I suppose in a sense, the Chinese government has effectively purchased a license to use this software, with payment rendered in the form of potential Chinese ad revenue.
True innovation is coming up with something that doesn't exist, isn't even an idea, and making it happen.
Ahh the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Improvement looks at what everyone else is doing and tries something different, while "standing on the shoulders of the giant". No original thought.
So you are saying Issac Newton didn't have an original thought. Might want to go back and revisit that line of logic. NOBODY has ideas that don't build on the work of others. If you think you are the only person to have an idea then you are delusional. If your standard for "true innovation" is a thought or product nobody else had considered previously then there is no such thing as "true innovation". Your argument is complete nonsense.
The reasons any tech is in China is for cheap labor and loose environmental standards
There are a LOT of reasons why a lot of electronics and other tech are made in China. You mentioned two factors but they aren't the only ones nor the most important ones in a lot of cases.
I've worked in tech and with the Chinese. We had to QC all of their work.
I've been to China, worked in global sourcing, and source products from there daily in my day job most of which are just fine. China produces massive amounts of high quality good and services. Yes there is some junk too but your sweeping claims about the quality of work from China is demonstrably false. Sounds like your company hired the wrong people or didn't have the experience to manage them properly. Happens to a lot of companies. Doesn't mean that everything from China is shit.
Apparently ripping off others work is 'innovation' these days. https://rendezvous.blogs.nytim... https://www.techinasia.com/chi... This is just another example.
"Governments have been dominated by the corporate entities and citizens have ceased to matter in public policy" true in
Wow, China ripping off everyone else and calling 'their innovation'? Nah, that's just crazy talk!
The shame of this is that there are some great minds in China who could probably develop a browser from scratch (with financial backing) but who are overshadowed by these plagiarists.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Google does track everything you do, even after you "leave" the browser.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
+1.
It would be stupid to write a browser without reusing some open-source code. Re-implementing the wheel is never a good idea and just asking for security issues.
However, it seems there is a disconnect between what they claim (fully homegrown) and what they do (start from chrome, at the point that they even forgot to remote some chrome licensed files).
Always funny to see the PR person respond to this by "but the users like it" which is the worst thing you can respond (because 1. it is not the question and 2. it's never true).
If their innovation isn't American, why did they need to come here in order to do it? Why couldn't they innovate where they were before?
Maybe they weren't born American, and yet the work they do here in America is still American work. For an American university. And they were probably paid in American dollars.
I see this as theft, not even clever theft.
But many innovators are, by necessity, standing on their predecessors shoulders.
To integrate you often need to know how other products work.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Go well
China doin what they do best.
Odd ... wasn't all the source code available at one point for Firefox or its predecessor anyway?