Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Australians Who Won't Unlock Their Phones Could Face 10 Years In Jail (sophos.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the not-passing-Go dept.

An anonymous reader quotes the Sophos security blog: The Australian government wants to force companies to help it get at suspected criminals' data. If they can't, it would jail people for up to a decade if they refuse to unlock their phones. The country's Assistance and Access Bill, introduced this week for public consultation, strengthens the penalties for people who refuse to unlock their phones for the police. Under Australia's existing Crimes Act, judges could jail a person for two years for not handing over their data. The proposed Bill extends that to up to ten years, arguing that the existing penalty wasn't strong enough...

[C]ompanies would be subject to two kinds of government order that would compel them to help retrieve a suspect's information. The first of these is a "technical assistance notice" that requires telcos to hand over any decryption keys they hold. This notice would help the government in end-to-end encryption cases where the target lets a service provider hold their own encryption keys. But what if the suspect stores the keys themselves? In that case, the government would pull out the big guns with a second kind of order called a technical capability notice. It forces communications providers to build new capabilities that would help the government access a target's information where possible. In short, the government asks companies whether they can access the data. If they can't, then the second order asks them to figure out a way....

The government's explanatory note says that the Bill could force a manufacturer to hand over detailed specs of a device, install government software on it, help agencies develop their own "systems and capabilities", and notify agencies of major changes to their systems.
"[T]he proposed legislation also creates a new class of access warrant that lets police officers get evidence from devices in secret before the device encrypts it, including intercepting communications and using other computers to access the data. It also amends existing search and seizure warrants, allowing the cops to access data remotely, including online accounts."

87 of 223 comments (clear)

  1. More or Less Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dangerous shift...

    1. Re:More or Less Rights by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I'll bet they don't even have Freedom Fries down there!

  2. Great ... by Misagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ten years for forgetting my pin number. I have done that.
    They might just as well lock everyone up in advance, just in case.

    --
    "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    1. Re: Great ... by thundercattt · · Score: 2

      I keep my password on a written piece of paper in my wallet. It's 25 digits long, numbers letters symbols. Upon being arrested, I ate said paper.

    2. Re: Great ... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Very clever. That's 10 years in clink for you. You'll be in there with rapists, robbers, pedophiles... who are very likely to have received a lighter sentence than you.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:Great ... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      They might just as well lock everyone up in advance, just in case.

      This is them installing the locks right now.

    4. Re:Great ... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ten years for forgetting my pin number. I have done that. They might just as well lock everyone up in advance, just in case./quote

      Uh, you're in Australia. You just haven't noticed. /s

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Great ... by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe instead they'll just transport them to the UK. That'd be a fate worse than death.

      --
      "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    6. Re:Great ... by misnohmer · · Score: 2

      You are missing a bigger picture. Someone you pissed off manages to grab your pin (video tape you entering it, or just peek over your shoulder), then changes it, calls in an anonymous tip to the police, you can't unlock it, bye-bye for the next decade. Easier than framing someone for a crime.

    7. Re: Great ... by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      Nah, they only put people who care about privacy in prison in her majesties colonies. The rapists get given jobs in the schools and hospitals.

    8. Re:Great ... by Scarletdown · · Score: 3, Funny

      So, when arriving in Australia and the Customs guys ask if you have any criminal history (if they ask such a thing), is asking back, "Is that still a requirement?" safe or unwise?

      Is that something they hear all the time? :D

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    9. Re: Great ... by rtb61 · · Score: 3

      Very unlikely, once subject to constitutional challenge the law will be scrubbed because you can not by law force any one to remember anything, to do so, would be the direct equivalent of torturing to force a confessions. You can not make legal demands of memory, not constitutional, sure write in a crap law temporarily until it is challenged constitutional, then it fails. Very tricky to try to prove someone remembered something, without them proving they remember it by remembering it in court, so you would be only guilty of the crime if you denied remembering it and then changed your mind but wait sometimes memory works like that, stress does weird things with memory.

      So charging someone with a crime for having a bad memory or an accident or suffering from stress it would be interesting in the Australia High Court, trying to prove someone remembers something, hmm, brain surgery and inserted torture probes I guess perhaps.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    10. Re: Great ... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Rapists and pedophiles in most countries end up in solitary for most of their lives. The general population has a tendency of killing them, because even a murderer has lines they won't cross.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    11. Re: Great ... by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Very unlikely, once subject to constitutional challenge the law will be scrubbed because you can not by law force any one to remember anything, to do so, would be the direct equivalent of torturing to force a confessions.

      I don't know how much you know about the Australian constitution, but good luck on that one. We already have secret quasi-courts with Star Chamber powers, such as the power to compel testimony and imprison silent witnesses, in the form of the various state anti-corruption commissions.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    12. Re: Great ... by sg_oneill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      [blockquote]I don't know how much you know about the Australian constitution, but good luck on that one. We already have secret quasi-courts with Star Chamber powers, such as the power to compel testimony and imprison silent witnesses, in the form of the various state anti-corruption commissions.[/blockquote]
      Its worse than that. The Libs (for our american friends, our Liberal party is equivilent to your Republican party, I know, confusing right?) gave the industrial relations courts have those powers too, as a way to get unions to hand over membership lists and the like. Doesn't work though, getting done for contempt of court for refusing to snitch on your unions considered a badge of honor for many in the movement,

      The worst part is , its tradition now that whenever a state or federal Liberal party gets power, the first thing they try to do is drag the labor party through the same court process to try and find out what sort of sneaky politicians have been nice to unions, or whatever the thoughtcrime allegation of the week is. Those and the Royal commissions that the libs like to do to intimidate labor never really find much except a few politicians that have fucked some reciepts for taxi fares or whatever, but its not about finding guilt, its about intimidation.

      We have a *very* anti-democratic conservative movement here.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    13. Re:Great ... by Zarhan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I have forgotten my PIN.

      11 hour redeye flight from Helsinki to Osaka, Japan after a badly slept previous night.

      Turn on cellphone, drowsy as hell, after customs. Enter PIN. Reject. WTF. Try again, still reject. Try again, once more reject. SIM now locked, please enter PUK code. Crap.

      I was able to call my telco from the hotel and get the SIM unlocked. Then it hit me - after the flight, I had kept typing in the PIN for my credit card. No wonder it didn't work since it was the completely wrong PIN.

      Point being: If someone brings you your phone after a night in cell you *honestly* could forget. Especially if some nasty officer is grilling you in an interrogation room.

    14. Re:Great ... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      So you only have one device and you use it every day and you don't frequently rotate your PIN numbers?

      These aren't ATM machines - you are in control of security (but not adopted adjectives).

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    15. Re:Great ... by gwjgwj · · Score: 1

      Firstly it's a PIN, not a PIN number.

      Wrong. It's a Personal PIN Number.

    16. Re:Great ... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      SIM now locked

      Cool story but the SIM PIN is not the one that locks the data on your phone and also is not the one I was talking about.

      Then it hit me - after the flight, I had kept typing in the PIN for my credit card. No wonder it didn't work since it was the completely wrong PIN.

      So you did know the PIN. I'm sure after a good night's rest you would have been fine, no need to spend 10 years in jail trying to remember then, which is kind of my point. The "I forgot it" isn't really a legit excuse for something we use so often.

    17. Re:Great ... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      and you don't frequently rotate your PIN numbers

      I'll do you one better: My PIN is 0000. Steal my phone. You may be able to do something as nasty as read an email before it gets remote wiped.

    18. Re:Great ... by ras · · Score: 1

      Ten years for forgetting my pin number.

      That's not what they are proposing. The article got it completely wrong - the bill isn't targeting end users at all. I guess that's not entirely surprising given the articles rush to have the First Post on the department of Home Affairs explanatory document for the Assistance and Access Bill 2018 . The ironic thing is, in their rush to get the most click baity article the could think out out, the managed to understate what the government is planning. By a lot. This isn't a bill to get your PIN out of you. The goal of this bill is to ensure they don't need your PIN.

      Here are some extracts from the above explanatory document, followed by the de-spinned translation:

      accessing communications at points where it is not encrypted.

      What the are actually thinking: With the advent of the internet we thought we had it all. The Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (TIA) allows us to compel phone companies to install taps on any phone line. Back then of course that involved the Telecom company creating a work order, the work order winding it's way down levels of management until a work was directed to install a listening device in a pit somewhere. Then a marvellous thing happened: the profit driven Telecom companies automated the process, so that instead of someone having to physically do something they just needed to press a button and the telephone exchange would start sending a copy of of all data flowing through the target device to our office in Canberra. Then an even more marvellous thing happen: everybody started sending everything over the internet - letters became emails, photos, signed documents, even short personal messages. The TIA gave us the power to direct the Telecom companies to direct all of it to us! By the time the NBN came along no one raised an eye brow and we asked for provision for LEA Racks (Law Enforcement Agency Racks) to be installed into every NBN POI (point of interconnect).

      Then, disaster. The NSA was sprung snooping Googles international links. The tech companies got the shits with us, and started encrypted everything. Unbelievably the pricks managed to convince the entire world to start using HTTPS. Suddenly the TIA goldmine became useless!

      We tried to get encrypted banned, then tried to plant crypto backdoors, but no go. Those bloody tech companies raised the spectre of us spying everyones banking passwords and dick picks to turn the world against us. But there is a work around - extend the existing TIA act so we can bug the devices used to access the data when it's unencrypted. It's just extending a existing capability, so hopefully it will look innocuous enough to get under their radar.

      317E(1)(c) provides installing, maintaining, testing or using software or equipment as an act or thing that may be specified in a technical assistance request, technical assistance notice or technical capability notice. Assistance of a kind contemplated by 317E(1)(c) includes installing, maintain, testing or using software or equipment given to a provider by, or on behalf, of an agency. The deployment of agency procured or developed software or equipment within an existing network owned or operated by a provider can achieve law enforcement objectives without requiring providers to develop technology secondary to their core business.

      Translation: But this is going to be hard, real hard. We are trying to install a virus on stuff controlled by the the biggest tech companies on the planet. They employ the best and brightest people, and their internet security is second to none. North Korea may have taken out Sony after they hired a top security expert from the CIA, but no one has put a serious dent in these guys. We are gonna have to force them to cooperate, but shit, we don't ev

    19. Re:Great ... by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

      Whats in the form is most important, but the thing they most get angry about is if you bring 200 packets of mushrooms or some shit from china like stupid chineese do.

      Dont bring food, unless its from 711, tick YES if your unsure, so they dont get angry over the apple Qantas gave you.

      https://www.lifestyle.com.au/t...

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    20. Re:Great ... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Ten years for forgetting my pin number. I have done that.
      They might just as well lock everyone up in advance, just in case.

      Well, it *is* an island initially populated by criminals.

    21. Re: Great ... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      I keep my password on a written piece of paper in my wallet. It's 25 digits long, numbers letters symbols. Upon being arrested, I ate said paper.

      My password is stored as the last 4 digits from the serial numbers contained on a stack of bills sorted by denomination in an envelope on my desk. Hey, where are the 100s and 50s?

  3. In AU it's worse than that by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 2

    Can one "plead the fifth" in Australia?

    1. Re:In AU it's worse than that by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's worse than that in most countries. Don't normalise America's constitution on the internet, you only represent 5% of the world.

    2. Re:In AU it's worse than that by fafalone · · Score: 1

      It's currently an open question as to whether or not you can plead the 5th in the US. Some courts have dishonestly tried to claim a passphrase/PIN is more like a key than a combination to a safe, and therefore can be ordered to be used. If you say no or say you forget, you can be held indefinitely under a contempt of court charge. The case that's gone the furthest has seen the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals affirm this nonsense, ruling it's basically just fine to hold anyone for an effective life sentence because they forgot a password. Even if the guy knew it and was lying at the start of the case, he's still in jail now 3 years later and who remembers a complicated password you don't use for that long.
      As is always the case when they seek a civil rights stomping precedent, it's a case against an accused pedophile hiding his CP collection. So of course not even the courts are particularly interested in standing up for his rights. But once that precedent is set...
      Having an encrypted container you don't know the password to is now a de facto crime carrying a life sentence. Because courts never run out of excuses and exceptions when a civil right runs up against police power.

  4. Fruit of the poisonous tree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "[T]he proposed legislation also creates a new class of access warrant that lets police officers get evidence from devices in secret before the device encrypts it, including intercepting communications and using other computers to access the data. It also amends existing search and seizure warrants, allowing the cops to access data remotely, including online accounts."

    With such capabilities, how could the courts prove the evidence was not tampered with, invented whole-cloth, planted by the police, or merely stored on the target device by a third party for purposes of framing or obfuscation?

    1. Re:Fruit of the poisonous tree by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Simple: They cannot. But they think that whatever the government wants trumps whatever residual rights citizens may have. This is simply a step in the process of making any rights citizens have optional and to be done away with when any government official says so. Sure, they are not there yet, but the direction is amply clear.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Fruit of the poisonous tree by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      With such capabilities, how could the courts prove the evidence was not tampered with, invented whole-cloth, planted by the police, or merely stored on the target device by a third party for purposes of framing or obfuscation?

      How can courts prove it currently for things not currently done "on a phone"?

    3. Re:Fruit of the poisonous tree by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      What you just said is in fact goddamned insightful; why are you just an AC?
      I've been one to talk about how our allegedly 1st-world-country governments are wanting to treat us like we're in a 3rd-world-country, and also destroy any value encryption has in their mad rush to get ALL THE DATA!, but that's an even more important point: the abuse potential such power would give LEOs and governments, to frame whoever they want to take the fall for something. If legislation like this is allowed to happen in ANY country, then so much for truth and actual justice, 'law enforcement' becomes a sham, and all courts of law become (excuse the poor joke in this case) 'kangaroo courts'.
      THIS is one of the greatest allies of the U.S.? Really!? They sound more and more like Russia or China. Nice job, Australia.

    4. Re:Fruit of the poisonous tree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I hate to break it to you, but the government and courts are already a sham. I've been involved in police accountability work for a few years. I've also been arrested for crossing the street legally and charged with disorderly conduct for *FILMING* the police. The reality is the courts and the police and the prosecutors are corrupt. You half a 50% chance of winning when your genuinely innocent and no crime has been committed and there is video of evidence of the supposed crime. I didn't take a plea deal, but don't think for a minute that they didn't win in a sense. The lawyers aren't cheap and they will drag it out until the night before the trial. Then they'll find some reason to drop it if you are super lucky or offer you something that you can't refuse, like 4 hours community service, (even if you don't given in to a plea deal, since if you do a plea agreement then you can't turn around and bring a lawsuit against them, and even that is near impossible unless the officers committed a violation of your fundamental right and you can prove it, and simply being arrested while filming doesn't do that, even if it is apparent to everybody the real reason you were arrested, assuming the complaint/arrest wasn't for "filming").

    5. Re:Fruit of the poisonous tree by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm sorry if your country (Australia) is such a total shit-hole of corruption. I've had the displeasure of having to work for Australians who bought out a small company I worked for, and they're about as unscupulous, unethical, and amoral as anyone could be, and it was a medical device company so I fear for the patients that might end up affected by their inevitable corner-cutting. Makes me wonder when your citizenry is going to wake up and do something definitive to take back their country from this apparent culture of lawlessness-in-lawfulness' clothing.

  5. Steganography now mandatory in Australia by ffkom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So everyone with an interest in privacy will use steganographic tools, while everyone else has no privacy. Well done, Australia!

    1. Re:Steganography now mandatory in Australia by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Nothing to see here, move along - https://goo.gl/images/A6cYjz ... or is there?
      https://goo.gl/images/Pb6Ldz
      https://goo.gl/images/zQedmW

      Heh.
      I know, not steganography. Old fashioned grade school communications.

  6. As an australian by Rainwulf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is fucking awful.

    I bet they wouldn't like it the public got access to THEIR phones, but its ok for them to get access to ours?

    Fuckers.

  7. One thing that might help by presidenteloco · · Score: 2

    Imagine a function built in to Android or IOS which re-encrypts the storage with a transient key which it then throws away.

    It could be triggered by entering a special pin code or something similar.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:One thing that might help by zm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Imagine a function built in to Android or IOS which re-encrypts the storage with a transient key which it then throws away.

      It could be triggered by entering a special pin code or something similar.

      Then imagine another ten years in jail for tampering with the evidence.

      --
      Sig ?
    2. Re:One thing that might help by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

      Evidence of what?

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    3. Re:One thing that might help by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Evidence of what?

      Another ten years.

    4. Re:One thing that might help by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Evidence of your innocence is still evidence.

    5. Re:One thing that might help by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Most police aren't that smart.

  8. Two keys by JaneTheIgnorantSlut · · Score: 2

    The phone needs two keys - one unlocks it and the other wipes it and then unlocks it.

    1. Re:Two keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or more subtly than that... the second key just wipes any data marked "sensitive". That way, the authorities won't have an obvious cause to go after you for destroying evidence. They won't know what was there before you unlocked it with the second key, yet they'll still see a normal, functioning device.

    2. Re:Two keys by OpenSourced · · Score: 2

      A problem with this is that you erase all your valuable data for perhaps just a random check in some customs. If the check is not random, the fully erased data is easy to recognize and marks you as an enemy of the state too. Even if you only delete data from some contacts previously marked as "sensible", the oppressor state (I'm assuming of course that you are a brave reporter fighting for the freedom of Whateverstan, not a child trafficker) can probably check your calls and internet use and see if they match the records of the phone.

      Less drastic and probably safer would be to have each code enter a different user. You enter (in regular use) one or the other depending on the kind of sensibility of your contact. Contacts marked as "sensible" are automatically saved in your private user. Every exchange with a sensible contact should be matched in the public user, with a similar but random generated content. If you contend that random generated content is easy to recognize, I can offer the option of using smileys. I've seen conversations consisting only of smileys, that nobody could make sense of.

      Of course, detailed forensics of your phone would reveal that you have that option (multiple user) available in your phone, but if it becomes a widely distributed feature of a fork of Android, you can have plausible deniability of your knowledge of such feature. If your oppressor state still has a semblance of due process, that can be useful. If not, all protection is futile, as you'll be declared guilty anyway.

      --
      Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
    3. Re:Two keys by argee · · Score: 1

      I like it. And you designate which part holds your files. Family pictures, keep after the "wipe". The Kiddie Porn and the Nuclear Secrets, "real wipe."
      They would not suspect a thing.

  9. That sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That sound you hear is a collective middle finger from every tech company on the planet towards Mr Malcom Turnbull and buddies. In reality, Australia is too small a market for them to give two shits about and any company could withdraw from the Australian market and it wouldn't change a pixel of their bottom line. Sure, it would piss the Australian people off if they couldn't get an iPhone or decent Android, but there are only 25 million of us.

    Hellstra and Optarse would release their own branded devices again, with a fully compliant mobile operating system on them and those would be the two choices of device you have.

    I don't count Microsoft in the collective, they've shown time and time again, they'll screw their custo... products over at the whim of governments.

  10. What if you you can't unlock it? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Although we might not yet have the tech to do this, I can easily imagine a password system in the not too distant future that is tied with a wetware mechanism that analyzes the state of mind of the person entering the password to determine who is entering the password and their emotional state while they are entering it. If the person is under any duress while they are entering the password, then it will not unlock.

    Thus, it would be provable that you have no ability to unlock it for them.... what would they do about that, exactly?

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  11. Silk and Cyanide by aberglas · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was actually an issue for agents during WW2. Marks got agents to stop using memorized encryption keys and instead use one time codes written on silk, with instructions to burn each piece after use.

    That way the Nazis could not torture there code out of them and then read their back traffic, which could be very serious.

    1. Re:Silk and Cyanide by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The other method learned was not to have the code and resulting plain text kept in a book when caught.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      ".. her notebooks. Contrary to security regulations, she had copied out all the messages she had sent as an SOE operative"
      ".. her misunderstanding what a reference to filing"

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  12. You want my key .... by argee · · Score: 1

    ... just take a shit and give it to them.

  13. New means to supress dissent by currently_awake · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Arrest someone your government dislikes, take phone, demand pin, change pin, tell detainee their pin doesn't work so you must have lied, put in jail for 10 years.

  14. so apple will pull out but will cave in china! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    so apple will pull out but will cave in china!

  15. Re:What if you you can't unlock it? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Possible, though they could likely give you something to help get you in the right state of mind.

    If they gave you something to artificially try and induce a cooperative state, then the tech should be able to discern that you were not in a normal frame of mind, and could still refuse access.

    The principle behind using such mechanisms would be that if a would-be snoop knows in advance that such mechanism are in place, then they would not try to coerce someone to give them access in the first place because they know ahead of time that any effort they might undertake will fail.

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  16. Re:Time to stop carrying a phone by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    That's why I only use pay phones.

  17. There's an App for that by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    Just get an app that has 2 codes, one that unlocks the phone, and another that wipes the phone. If they are requiring the phone un locked to look for evidence how can they prove that it was there in the first place ? The only thing I keep on my phone is the contact list, I delete call history, received, and outgoing, as well as all my text history on a daily basis already.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  18. Re:Australia by Falconhell · · Score: 2

    How ironic, someone from a country with the highest imprisonment rate in the western world calling Australia penal colony. That has not been the case for over 200 years.

  19. Delusional drivel. by Falconhell · · Score: 3, Informative

    Oh the irony, the current Australian government responsible for this is the conservative right wing LNP, verging on far right. If you were even reasonably informed you would know this, but your paranoia about duh Marxist does not allow you to conceive that this is the work of the right wing, as was the removal of a lot of guns by the same parties as currently in government.
    Virtually nobody here cares about owning guns, and those who live in the country on farms frequently do have weapons on hand.
    You are pretty much wrong in every single point, your lack of any knowledge is disturbing, tell me which part of the US are you from?

    1. Re:Delusional drivel. by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      No, they are also right of the Democratic party. They are the party of pro-white, anti-coloured immigration. The party of corporate tax cuts based on free-market voodoo. The party of climate change denial and the offloading of climate related economic and political troubles to later generations.

      And no, not even the 10% who own guns cares enough about guns to complain about gun laws. Requiring a reason, and a licence, to own a gun is not considered unreasonable among most of the 10%.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    2. Re:Delusional drivel. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Oh the irony, the current Australian government responsible for this is the conservative right wing LNP, verging on far right.

      Behold, Jerry, the ultimate tool of the lunatic crypto-conservative movement.

      Anything that offends their delicate sensibilities is immediately labeled as marxist, or socialist.

      So you can get a far right government doing some of the heinous things a government can do, and somehow magickly, it becomes the fault of Leeeburl's socialists, or Marxists.

      Tools for tools, as it were.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:Delusional drivel. by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I hope you also enjoy your 10 years in prison for not unlocking your phone, the one you didn't even realize you owned.

    4. Re:Delusional drivel. by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Except your not allowed to use self defense as a reason, for anything.

    5. Re:Delusional drivel. by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      No chance, I don’t keep anything that would cause concern on my phone. If you do, you’re an idiot. Surprisingly, I know all the phones I own, you dont?

    6. Re:Delusional drivel. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      And this fucked up "agree/disagree"-based moderation scoring that shows exactly why I browse at -1. I find more posts of truth at -1, and groupthink at +5.

      Bull. Shit.

      His posting at -1 has nothing to do with "groupthink" or "agree/disagree". Roman posts at -1 because the majority of his posts are either recruitment efforts for his religion, plainly insulting, or both. If he could participate in discussion here like a normal mature human being he would not have karma in the shitter. He's even started at least one sock puppet account in the interest of either increasing his karma or simply ignoring it, and that has been similarly moderated down.

      If you see some grain of truth in roman's comments, feel free to log in and moderate them up to where you think they should be. Just don't be surprised if flamebait activity from him is moderated down as such.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    7. Re:Delusional drivel. by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      "roman_mir" routinely posts claims that he is a business owner who employs only people in ex-soviet satellite nations in Eastern Europe and in third-world nations; specifically so that he can take advantage of the lack of worker protections in those countries so that he can get away with mistreating and underpaying said workers. There are two ways that can break down:

      1). He's a liar and therefore a troll account; which deserves a "-1 Troll" mod every single time.

      or

      2). He's telling the truth and is simply a walking, talking, stack of shit who really does get off on abusing his workers. Being truthful about such may absolve him of "-1 Troll" mods. But the way he brags about said abuses could rightfully be considered "-1 Flamebait."

      So it's really just a matter of whether or not one believes he is being truthful in his claims of business ownership and worker abuses. Either way, the -1s and the default score are richly deserved.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    8. Re:Delusional drivel. by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Yes you are. You're just not allow to cause the death of someone with self-defence using excessive force. That's not "for anything". That's literally for just one outcome. There are plenty of outcomes in self-defence that does not require death.

      Something is wrong with Americans. You guys keep trying to find an excuse to kill people to make yourself feel macho for having been wronged.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
  20. Re:Australia by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    Cough, cough, for Adelaide and South Australia, it never was the case, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., only the eastern states criminal bunch that they are, trouble makers from north to south and even cross the Bass ;D.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  21. Re:Time to stop carrying a phone by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Well, you basically say human society always goes for fascism. I do not see things that bleak, but you could be right, unfortunately.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  22. People Don't Need That Level of Security by mentil · · Score: 2

    In other news, Australian authorities now requiring safe manufacturers to provide backdoor access, says they are 'too secure'.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  23. Re:No doubt about it .. by Strider- · · Score: 4, Informative

    Australia has jumped the Marxist shark.

    This is much closer to fascist than anything else. Marxist is an economic ideology. Fascism is political/legal.

    --
    ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
  24. far queue by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    tell them to join the far queue

    --
    Go well
  25. Fake News by argee · · Score: 1

    God help you if they finally unlock the journalist's phone and find Fake News!

  26. WOW... by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

    Australia really is just upside-down America. I thought it was just a weird coincidence of cartography, but... nope. Good thing I had no burning desire to go there. Wonder what they'll think up next? My guess is lifetime imprisonment on a giant island for just being Australian... oh, wait... they already HAVE that. LOL-Failstrailia.

    --
    Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
  27. Then the data must be hidden by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    If I can't protect my data with encryption then I have to go to other means. Data that cannot be found cannot be demanded.

    Here people will say "but that isn't how I do things right now"... always the way with everything since always. We don't do things a certain way until we do.

    Easy enough to do... does require pushing the data to secured remote servers or obscuring the data on the phone such that it doesn't appear to be data... at least enough so that the investigators and courts don't notice it.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  28. Its a slippery slope ... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

    Next year it will be 10 years for possession of a phone.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  29. Re:What if you you can't unlock it? by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

    10 years in prison. Jupiter years.

  30. Re:What if you you can't unlock it? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Yes, they could still do that, of course. But at that point they are arresting a person because they want to, and could not even try to make the argument that they were arresting the person because they posed any threat to public safety or security unless they had other evidence to go on.

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  31. Re: "released for public consultation" by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    I like the way you think.

  32. Hmm by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    With all the uproar over access to private / personal data that is stored on a smartphone, I am shocked they don't simply secretly upload said data periodically to a cloud server instead and call it a backup.

    Then they just have to bribe . . . . er. . . promise lucrative contracts to the Telco for access.

    Then again, they may already do so and the rest of this is just misdirection.

  33. Re:What if you you can't unlock it? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Oh, and one more point... if you need to call emergency, then you don't need to unlock the phone in the first place. Same as it is right now.

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  34. Unlikely by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Arrest someone your government dislikes, take phone, demand pin, change pin, tell detainee their pin doesn't work so you must have lied, put in jail for 10 years.

    a country that far gone through the rabbit hole of fascism, does not need that. Just go to the culprit home and drop a bundle of child porn in mag form, photo of what "could" look like the suspect having sex with a child, et voila, and contrary to a phone that does not leave potential electronic evidence like changing the pin (which may have been logged). Or heck as xkcd said, just take a crowbar and hit them, or make them disappear in an early grave (pun intended). Frankly you are thinking of complicated solution when there is far more easier.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  35. Re:Nuke it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This happened in Canada to Minister of Public Safety Vic Toews. Douchebag publicly advocated for invading citizens privacy. When his personal info started getting leaked, he sure didn't like it.

  36. Re:Would gladly sit in prison for 10 years by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Really? You're willing to give up 10 years of your life? Wow.
    Understand that once you're in jail your life isn't worth a nickel. Someone could end it at any time.

    Better to vote the bums out. Repeal all of their failed gun control laws.

  37. Re:Get ready Australia by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Does that mean NTFS is outlawed?

    (That's a joke, Son!)

  38. Re:Australia by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    I couldn’t care less. There is nothing on my phone I care about hiding. Never will be, no phone can be trusted to be secure.

  39. Re:Australia by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    I know, I live in Adelaide you insensitive clod. :)

  40. Re:Australia by fafalone · · Score: 1

    How ironic, someone from a country with the highest imprisonment rate in the western world calling Australia penal colony.

    How dare you sir. I will not stand here while you insult the great land of freedom that is the United States. We have the highest number of prisoners, in both raw number and per capita, in the entire world, not just the Western world. Rest of the world always trying to minimize our accomplishments... We're Number 1! And not even the most oppressive authoritarian and totalitarian regimes in the world can touch our incarceration rate. Wait a second... if... Nevermind! Credit where credit is due, we take great pride in this achievement, especially in our non-violent drug user mass incarceration program.