Slashdot Mirror
Adobe's Next Major Creative Cloud Release Won't Support Older OSes (petapixel.com)
nehumanuscrede writes: Adobe ruffled a lot of feathers when they decided to cease selling their standalone products and go subscription only. While a lot of folks complained, it doesn't seem to have had much (if any) of a negative impact on Adobe financially. Now, according to PetaPixel, Adobe is poised to cease support for older operating systems by depriving those users of upgrades and updates beyond the cut-off date, even though those users are paying customers (and have been for years). I'm curious if those impacted will upgrade to the more modern OS, or simply find an alternative to Adobe software (paid or otherwise).
Personally, I'm still rocking Windows 7 because, in my opinion, there isn't anything wrong with it. So, in the near future, it seems I'm going to have a choice to make: Drop my Creative Cloud subscription, upgrade to an OS I absolutely loathe like Windows 10, or continue paying full price for apps that will cease receiving updates (which was Adobe's whole argument for going with the subscription method in the first place so folks will always have the latest updated software). What are your thoughts? "Your Windows won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond the Windows 10 Anniversary Update (v1607) that was released to the public on August 2, 2016," reports PetaPixel. "And if you're on a Mac, you won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond Mac OS 10.11 (El Capitan), which was released on September 30, 2015."
Personally, I'm still rocking Windows 7 because, in my opinion, there isn't anything wrong with it. So, in the near future, it seems I'm going to have a choice to make: Drop my Creative Cloud subscription, upgrade to an OS I absolutely loathe like Windows 10, or continue paying full price for apps that will cease receiving updates (which was Adobe's whole argument for going with the subscription method in the first place so folks will always have the latest updated software). What are your thoughts? "Your Windows won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond the Windows 10 Anniversary Update (v1607) that was released to the public on August 2, 2016," reports PetaPixel. "And if you're on a Mac, you won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond Mac OS 10.11 (El Capitan), which was released on September 30, 2015."
First, they get greedy
Second, they stop being innovative
Third, they treat their customers badly
All pointing towards the end of Adobe, soon.
"I told you so, and so did a lot of other people" about covers it.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
According to reports on DPReview quoting Adobe, Adobe will still be supporting Windows 7 64 bit.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Win 7 and CS6 still meet my needs. When they stop meeting my needs, I'll consider options.
When this computer dies, I'll probably continue to run Win7+CS6 in a VM.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
That's the point. They are giving you those 2 choices: upgrade your OS, or keep paying for software without receiving any updates for it. Many people (myself included) argue that the subscription model has taken away a 3rd choice that we should have: keep your old OS and keep using the out of date software, without paying a dime because you've already paid the purchase price once.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Stop paying multiple times for the same software and just replace it. Adobe thinks you're a bitch and is out to fuck you like one. Don't choose to be a bitch.
There. Much better.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Where is this free? There's a free trial, giving you free watermarks in your output. From their site: "The demo version allows you to try out all the features of Master PDF Editor. There are no limitations except for the addition of a watermark on the output file." But it costs $70 (excluding VAT) for a single license.
Sig?
The point is they already stopped selling software, and now only let you rent the latest version. So I am sure they won't leave an older version available for those who don't update.
Right here: "I'm still rocking Windows 7 because, in my opinion, there isn't anything wrong with it"
You are whats wrong with it.
Newer does not mean better. Maybe people don't want to use an OS that tries its damndest to suck up as much of your data as possible. Forces upgrades on itself and is generally is user hostile.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Windows 7 extended support ends in January 2020, less than 18 months away. Developing for one OS simplifies the code base and lets the dev take advantage of newer features - like how certain Adobe products can use Directx12 and render on both the dedicated and integrated GPU.
And that's fair enough to a degree but when the two options are upgrade your hardware or keep paying monthly for software that will never be updated (what was one of their purported benefits of the subscription model? Oh yeah, never be out of date again). It's not like you can just buy a new copy of cs6 and use that. Maybe top level pros need all the latest bells and whistles but most people just don't. CS6/win7 is a stable combo and does everything I need. Why should I pay over the odds to keep everything at the highest numbers and deal with all the issues that ensue?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
shill for the evil empire much?
windows 7 is only unsupported by newer hardware (e.g. ryzen, coffee lake, etc) because microsoft paid-off amd and intel to drop pre-win10 support, knowing the vast majority of users would choose win7 on a new pc.
in adobe's case here...
is total bullshit. there's NOTHING in windows 10 or El Capitan that recent (win7 era or newer) previous versions lack that adobe "needs". NOTHING. it's a cop-out. an excuse. a lame one at that. probably also being compensated by microsoft..
Software engineer / developer here. I can.
For software, it needs to be tested on (at the bare minimum) every OS it needs to run on. For rapid development like agile that means multiple tests running per day as builds occur. Each of these platforms could have bugs that occur only on that platform, and need to be patched without breaking all the other versions - which means more testing. Not all of this testing is automated (although the vast majority will be these days), but either way it's a use of time and resource.
Factor in that individual patch versions within an OS can cause problems, as well as other installed software packages, drivers and the like, and supporting OSs that are no longer considered current becomes more and more of a task.
It's less of an issue for free software (free in the money sense) because firstly there's no promise or contract that says it has to work on everyone's machines, and secondly because the userbase for said software tends to contribute bug reports and, for FOSS, fixes back to the code base. For a sold product like Photoshop, part of what you're paying for is absolute compatibility with your system. If that's starting to prove a major resource drain on Adobe, and it will be fairly substantial, then it makes sense that they're trying to cut our operating systems that are past their sell by date.
However, those features could be added. That's the beauty of FOSS.
Yes. I could add any features to any piece of software (it's in the nature of software, really), but in the case of the Adobe suite, it will take me - and a team of oh let's say fifty people, about ten years to add those features that are currently unavailable anywhere else. Which means that this comment, as it always does when raised in the context of "here's a list of things that OSS doesn't do", means jack and shit.
THIS. 100% exactly this. The bullshit reason I see elsewhere is DX12 support. But guess what? Adobe doesn't use DX in Photoshop at all. They use OpenGL. A new OS doesn't help with that at all in this case, just updated drivers.
on the other hand.
any "it professional" using windows 10 should be immediately fired for gross negligence.
However, your original post said this:
Had you said "it's affordable commercial software for Linux", you'd have been right. You said it was "open source". It isn't.
Either, you haven't been long enough on this site to distinguish between "free as in beer" and "free as in freedom", which I doubt with a user ID like that, or you are being deceitful on purpose. Never mind this is "free as in limited demo version".
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
We have a saying for that: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Why does something that works ever need to be "upgraded".
What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?
Hopefully by picking a different vendor.
If GIMP, Inkscape, and Krita don't do it for you, Affinity makes a nice set to programs to replace Illustrator and Photoshop called Designer and Photo.
Corel still exists too.
And oh yeah, and Fuck Adobe.
Once you whack it on the head with a sledgehammer and disable all the rubbish app stuff, Windy 10 is ok.
Add Classic Shell / Classic Start (new open source name)
Use Winaero Tweaker.
Use Disable Win Tracking.
Add Aero Glass for Windows 8 (if that is your thing, needs a donation for no nag).
Add old calculator.
Give paint 3d the heave ho.
Add the old windows picture viewer.
Add back all the old sound schemes (some guy on deviantart has done this).
I don't think most people realize how hard it is to move a piece of software forward while supporting dozens of antiquated platforms.
How hard? Can you characterize cost benefit in this specific case or are you just stating a baseless opinion?
At some point, a professional should upgrade themselves
Hopefully by picking a different vendor.
It's one of those things that's kind of obvious if you have ever worked on software. Along with a few others I maintain a very complex suite of software on two separate platforms, Linux and a Unix OS. We only have to make the software work on one point release of each of two those two OS platforms but just that can be a nightmare simply because of the differences between the compilers and the build environments. Add to that the fact that other tools and libraries sometimes behave differently from platform to platform and you spend a significant amount of time trying to find something that works on both platforms. The older and more out of date your legacy platforms become the more they limit what you can do on the newer ones, it also raises the expense of development and those problems become more pronounced the more complex your software is. The alternative is to maintain several specialist branches for each antiquated platform and with them a whole bunch of specialist developers. I can only imagine what it would be like if I had to support Photoshop on all Windows versions from 7 onward and all MacOS versions from 10.6 onward (only fair since Windows 7 was released in 2009 and so was 10.6) and ensure that Photoshop also works flawlessly on all point releases of those two OS'es because somebody out there is running MacOS 10.6.6 or something and can't be moved to solve whatever issue he is having by upgrading to 10.6.7, never mind upgrade to the most current MacOS 10.13.6. Same rant for Windows .... It's easy to declare that supporting something as complex as Photoshop across every legacy Windows and MacOS version of the last 10 years and all point releases there of should be a walk in the park. It is a lot harder to be the one who actually has to walk through that park. Besides, you said it yourself, at some point a professional should upgrade, hopefully that includes the OS platform, their hardware and themselves for that matter.
What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?
Exactly.
As much as I may hate Microsoft, they have always done a good job of maintaining backward compatibility. My copy of Microsoft Office 2003 runs just fine on Windows 10. But Windows 10 is broken, unusable shit, so I went back to Windows 7.
If the latest version of Photoshop runs on Windows 7 today, the only reason it would not run on Windows 7 tomorrow is if you deliberately change Photoshop for the specific purpose of breaking compatibility.
It's quite an old OS, doesn't fully support newer hardware, doesn't get security support and updates...
Bullshit. Nice try, Microsoft shill.
Just installed Windows 7 on a computer yesterday. New computer with modern hardware, everything works just fine. Had to manually install a couple of drivers because Windows 7 doesn't *natively* support a couple of newer things, but that is trivial. Windows Update ran and updates everything. And it still gets security updates till 2020.
I used to always upgrade to the newest and latest as soon as it came out. Windows 8 and Windows 10 cured me of that. Utter garbage. And Microsoft shows no intention of acknowledging their massive fuckup. Instead they keep doubling down on the stupidity and making Windows worse and worse.
"Why does something that works ever need to be "upgraded"
Software that works. An interesting, but flawed concept. It's not compatible with maximizing profits. Fortunately, we have embraced modern software development technologies that make it exceedingly unlikely that software will ever actually work.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
An adjustment layer is a layer that is created by applying filters to the layers below it and automatically updates when the layers below it change. GIMP doesn't have adjustment layers. Photoshop has had them since version 4. Not CS4, just 4. That's two decades ago.
Because your mythical write-once-and-never-update API does not exist.
Having developed cross platform APIs, that is not necessarily a good idea. Not only does it fail to solve the problem since you still have to maintain the API, but you've added an additional layer of complexity that has to be constantly changed and tested. As you say, it is a 'cross platform developer tutorial #1', but stops being a simple solution by #10.
What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?
Exactly.
As much as I may hate Microsoft, they have always done a good job of maintaining backward compatibility. My copy of Microsoft Office 2003 runs just fine on Windows 10. But Windows 10 is broken, unusable shit, so I went back to Windows 7.
If the latest version of Photoshop runs on Windows 7 today, the only reason it would not run on Windows 7 tomorrow is if you deliberately change Photoshop for the specific purpose of breaking compatibility.
You're confusing backwards compatibility (apps that work on Windows 7 work on Windows 10) with forwards compatibility (apps that work on Windows 10 work on Windows 7). I don't know Windows that well, but it's perfectly possible for Microsoft to have added capabilities and features that are useful for Adobe and are present in modern Windows but not in Windows as release a decade ago.
Even when it causes harm to others?
Yes.
There are already laws and legal torts to handle people who cause harm to another through reckless negligence, etc. Either this is mine, or it is not. If it is mine, I shall make the decisions on what happens to it and also, be personally responsible for any harm I cause through negligence, etc with it. If it is not mine, then whomever owns it (by making those decisions for me) is the responsible party for any harm it may cause.
Proprietary vendors like MS want it both ways; It's yours when it comes to liability but theirs when it comes to making decisions about it's management/operation.
Shifting the responsibility in this manner is what allows MS and others to escape liability for those botnets, crypto-malware infections, vulnerabilities/backdoors, etc that exist because of bad engineering/coding and QA on their part.
OK, car-analogy time. It's like a car maker selling you a car which they control all operational functions of and you're not allowed to modify or even view critical parts, but you're held legally responsible if it, for instance, exceeds legal engine emissions standards when you have no way to alter or control it, or in many cases even be able to detect the flaw yourself.
It's straight-up horseshit and needs to end.
trat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
To me supporting an OS back to 2015 is still supporting "older OS'es", that was quite some time ago (in computer OS terms).
I don't think it is unreasonable, at all, for a software maker to require to have an OS no older than three to four years! That is potentially a ton of useful system libraries you are missing out on if you want to support something older.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They "force" software companies to stop supporting older OS versions by simply dropping support in Visual Studio. A software company may still keep using an older version of VS for a while, but eventually they will need another seat, and won't be able to buy a new copy of the older full version. If MS knows what they're doing, the newer versions of VS won't even be able to use the old support files if you somehow sneaked them in, but there's certainly no target-OS UI checkbox to use them. Apple isn't quite so bad; you're still allowed to use older versions of Xcode... if you can find them.
I learned this back when W2K became unsupported by an online game I was playing at the time, so I upgraded to W7Pro. Now I face a similar situation except that my current favorite online game has Linux support. If Apple doesn't get their act together and stop spackling their "pro" computers together with glue and solder, and supports a decent GPU without an expensive screen glued to it, I'm on target for some kind of Linux soon.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Software engineer / developer here. I can.
You provide a lot of what-ifs, but leave out the most important one: what if Adobe developers were at least remotely competent at cross-platform development, and created an actual API that they would code to. Implement that API once across each supported platform, then stop worrying about it. That's cross-platform development tutorial #1.
This isn't a "cross-platform development" issue, this is an "older operating systems are missing features that will help us make better software" issue.
In Adobe's case, OS X El Capitan is the first version to support Metal -- this API is much more efficient on systems with multiple CPU cores. Windows 10 is the first version to support DirectX 12, which opens op the capability of using multiple discrete GPUs for rendering tasks on Windows. There is no "cross-platform" or "backwards-compatible" way of doing these kinds of things -- all applications, including your mythical compatibility layer, will depend on the low-level graphics capabilities of the operating systems they use. It's completely unreasonable to expect Adobe to reimplement core OS features just to appease some technological refuseniks who prefer decade-old operating systems for aesthetic or emotional reasons.
And look, I get it, people don't like Windows 10 because they've bought into the hype that it's a "spying operating system". Yes, it sends a list of your installed apps to Microsoft, but they do that so you won't receive Windows Updates with known compatibility issues. And yes, it's measuring how long certain operations take, like opening the Settings app, but they do that so that Microsoft can prioritize performance improvements.
As for Apple, yes, macOS High Sierra has been the worst Mac OS release in over a decade, and macOS Mojave is shortening the leash on supported hardware range for Macs to 6-7 years, and it's removing features that people actually use like Back To My Mac... it's really super-frustrating.
But here's the thing: both operating systems also continue to add very useful programming APIs for developers so that they can continue to improve their software. The next update to Windows 10 is finally adding native Unix-style ptys, for instance, and the console natively supports xterm-256color. Mojave, for its part, is finally implementing the OpenType-SVG font standard, i.e. fonts with colour. Maybe these don't interest you, but there's literally thousands of low-level improvements like these over the last several years, many of which would make your computing life nicer.
But if you don't know about those things, and make personal computing choices based solely on press negativity, you'll never get to learn about, much less enjoy the upsides.