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Five Eyes Intelligence Alliance Argues 'Privacy is Not Absolute' in Push For Encryption Backdoors (itnews.com.au)
The Five Eyes, the intelligence alliance between the U.S., U.K., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, issued a statement warning they believe "privacy is not absolute" and tech companies must give law enforcement access to encrypted data or face "technological, enforcement, legislative or other measures to achieve lawful access solutions." Slashdot reader Bismillah shares a report: The governments of Australia, United States, United Kingdom, Canada and New Zealand have made the strongest statement yet that they intend to force technology providers to provide lawful access to users' encrypted communications. At the Five Country Ministerial meeting on the Gold Coast last week, security and immigration ministers put forward a range of proposals to combat terrorism and crime, with a particular emphasis on the internet. As part of that, the countries that share intelligence with each other under the Five-Eyes umbrella agreement, intend to "encourage information and communications technology service providers to voluntarily establish lawful access solutions to their products and services." Such solutions will apply to products and services operated in the Five-Eyes countries which could legislate to compel their implementation. "Should governments continue to encounter impediments to lawful access to information necessary to aid the protection of the citizens of our countries, we may pursue technological, enforcement, legislative or other measures to achieve lawful access solutions," the Five-Eyes joint statement on encryption said.
I'd say "please".
... is not absolute.
Sure thing guys, you first.
A big part of why end to end encryption is becoming more popular and desired by the public is because people everywhere were horrified to find out how big a dragnet the 5 eyes nations were using, and they'd probably never have found out if it wasn't for Edward Snowden.
...you first.
We need more encryption not less.
I'd rather every single criminal go free than have the government able to snoop on innocent people.
This is not some sort of challenge to government. It's a fact of the universe. All the efforts by each government to outwit the other by creating "unbreakable encryption" has resulted in it getting into the hands of the civilians. No amount of government restricts will undo the laws of mathematics they so carefully tried to exploit to ensure the security of their own messages. Now it can be used by anyone and no amount of collusion by technological companies, legislation, or other measures will adequately provide the backdoors they so desperately desire.
The cat is out of the bag. Instead of embracing this fact and working around the limitations this means, like finding loose links or offering immunity to some for access when it comes to criminal organizations/groups or simply other detective/intelligence work in a world that will never return all the answers, this parade of begging and threats only lures in a few useful idiots who tend to not be useful enough.
Either that or it's all a charade and the encryption has already been broken. But given their behavior, I tend to doubt it. That, by far, is actually the most crippling thing: admitting how powerless they are when encryption is used correctly. It's little wonder "Five Eyes" acts such like a petulant child. It's also incredibly pathetic.
With multiple systems being breached every month, lets create backdoors to make this happen. Anyone suggesting this has no idea how tech works.
There is no such thing as an encryption back door that only works for law enforcement. If there's a back door, the bad guys will use it 24/7.
Any politician who suggests an encryption back door should be put in prison for treason -- for attempting to give our secrets to the enemy.
Trump may be right about these douchebags.
that an alliance of intelligence agencies that uses snooping through private material to gather intelligence attempts to set forth the narrative that "privacy is not an absolute"? Not very shocking at all...
I hope that the rule of law and the legislative bodies elected by representatives of the people weigh in on this rather one-sided pronouncement.
Look, I get it: when you're trying to stop the worst criminals in the world it seems stupid to let trivial stuff like privacy of people you don't care about get in the way. Because if you don't, people will die.
But there are three problems: (1) you haven't earned the public trust. Episode after episode (lying to congress, for-profit prisons, coercion of innocent people to plead guilty through a bad plea bargain system, backdoor unconstitutional evidence, even standard interrogation techniques) show that despite lots of good people in law enforcement, law enforcement as a whole should not be trusted. If you want the public trust, you need to put MUCH better systems in place to ensure accountability and transparency. The end result will be *worse* for the bad guys, *better* for law enforcement, and would *enable* the kind of trust-ful environment you want to go after terrorists. (2) it weakens security generally, for technical reasons, and that's not to be glossed over. (3) It's not just about how it gets in the way of you going after the asshole who's trying to plan the next 9/11. It's also about what's the worst thing a person in government abusing their power would do with the information you're collecting. It's not about you; it's about the guy who stores information on the entire population and uses it for political purposes later when those people become Presidents, Senators, and CEOs.
It's about J. Edgar Hoover and Senator McCarthy. It's about people making lists of undesireables from information about religion or belief or google search or sexual mores. It's about control by the most evil of people using all the power of your office and the offices around you--the people who, even if you have a good culture today, could be in those offices with surprising speed.
Defense of Democracy is not just about Defense from foreign threats. It's about defense from domestic ones. It's about threats from enemies within our own power structure, and more than anything about preventing the corruption of power.
The problem of lawless law enforcers is it leads durectly to abuse abd exploitation, embezzlement and theft.
Corportation and private citizens need heavier and harder encyption to protect their individual interests from public theft or politically motivated exploitation.
US local states and towns governments are well known for their unconstitutional racist bigoted rulings demying political minority groups even basic civil rights, basic feedom of speech and self expression, religious freedom, private property 4th amendment no tresspassing warrantless searches, sometimes resulting in injury or death of tax paying home owners, and rampent 14th amendment violations of different races or religious groups.
Just because someone gets a job in government doesn't make them one of the 'good guys'.
If your phone/computer OEM can force you to use only specified firmware, the spooks can force them to modify the firmware in ways that betray the user.
People always say "encryption can't be broken" but that is missing the point. They can mandate a pre-encryption backdoor in phones and tablets, and because those are relatively locked down platforms, it'll do the trick, forking over your data before it is encrypted, or on the other end, after it is decrypted for you to view it. Sure some people will find ways around, but the point is that 99.9% of the population never will even try, they won't even be aware it's a thing.
This is why it is so critical to keep control over hardware. The more we buy locked down hardware, the more control slips from our fingers. Even now PC hardware is edging that way, with all the hardware level DRM and "ring -1" features anymore.
Make no mistake: there is a war going on over who gets to control the mechanisms of the digital world. It's a long, slow loss, but the trend is clear. We're not winning this. Personal computers were much more under your control 30 years ago than today.
If the target is using end to end ecryption, get a F'ing warrant and hack the endpoint(s), assign tail teams... Mass surveillance does not protect the "citizens", and enables a government of the state, by the state, for the state, doing material harm to everyone on the planet.
Without the internet, without computer based encryption the IRA was able to coordinate terrorist activities for decades.
There are still "Numbers stations" which publicly just broadcast a series of numbers
There are thousands of ways to transmit information, all undetectable.
For example if a child wears a red t-shirt it could mean the house is under surveillance, the child knows nothing, its just what he was given to wear that day.
A loaf of bead gets bought before mid day, or after , there is a different meaning
If someone posts on a message board saying their cat has run away, it could have another meaning to others
Those that want to hide in plain sight and transmit encrypted information will still be able to do so with impunity, this just puts honest people at risk.
As for the "nothing to hide" argument , of course people have something to hide.
A GP who likes to dress as a baby in nappies, a male lawyer who likes to dress as cinderella, a wife who is having an affair with the gardener, a Jew who likes bacon, someone being an atheist , being gay, ex member of a hate group, illegitimate child, paying off a porn star and playboy model. There are millions of things we keep to ourselves and the government wants to be trusted with that information.... "I don't think so Tim".
This alliance of governments isn't going to just pack it in when tech businesses hold their ground. They have every intention of pushing with everything they've got, because the kind of data to which they will gain access will make them *supremely* powerful (and rich).
This isn't a matter of there being "risk" that rogue government agents might abuse this authority. The abuse is the goal, and it has got them REALLY motivated.
Voters only have any power when they are unified and focused. Neither is true in this case.
I will add, we are talking about the same voters that left Snowden hung out to dry.
I Agree, and our elected officials should be shining examples.
All transactions, should be viewable, nothing should be hidden. They should be indexed, searchable, etc.
They are paid using public money, so we deserve to know where it's going. Any cash withdrawals should immediately raise red flags. If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.
The only thing to be hidden is their SSN, DoB, and home addresses.
All of their family members transactions should be included too, and available for inspection.
All of their facebook pictures, posts, tumblr, any account that they use should be available to the public.
Their cellphone records, call records, google searches, alex recordings, everything.
It's for the good of the republic. Anyone against this sides with evil people, and can not be trusted with $0.01 of public money.
How about the government can have as much privacy as it's citizens. National security is nothing more than a euphemism for "we want to hold onto power"... It's high time our government started acting responsibly and the only way to do that is a grass roots efforts.
"Pass an amendment requiring full open financial information on all elected officials and their family members, spouse & children."
Mod parent up! We live in societies that lack a depth of understanding. We are forced to vote for people we don't really know. Most people are ignorant about much of what happens around them that affects their lives.
Many people in government and in management of private companies have NO knowledge of technical issues. That doesn't prevent them from having what they consider to be a strong and sensible opinion. They don't recognize they are wildly ignorant.
De-encryption back doors are not an answer. They will ALWAYS eventually be compromised.
Encryption is ALWAYS available. Forcing back doors will merely hasten the development of additional encryption methods.
eom
Headline: Agency who's job it is to spy on citizens thinks citizens shouldn't have technology which makes it difficult for them to be spied on.
...when Wikileaks, Anonymous, the Russians, etc. find the backdoor.
"Give me 6 lines written by the purest of men, and I'll find wherewithal to hang him in them". /dev/random say what they want to believe.
The breakthough is not needing those 6 lines at all.
If they get the law they think they can get (by blackmailing the politicians? Dragnet had to include them, probably them first) - they can then demand you decrypt random bits - and bust you if you can't - or they can - make
It won't matter if you use effectively unbreakable crypto - the laws of math and all that. It'll only make it worse.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
These damn clowns
companies must give law enforcement access to encrypted data or face "technological, enforcement, legislative or other measures to achieve lawful access solutions
They ask for legal access, and should they be denied, they will change to law to make it legal?
How does "no" sound? Does "no" work for you?
NO.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
This is why government is a damn joke and the people need to take the power back from the fucking morons they gave it to in the first place.
If we can't have gun control becuase "the constitution says the right to own guns (arms technically) shall not be infringed"...then law enforcement should have to actually do a little work and deal with encryption since the constitution doesn't make exceptions for our right to privacy.
Otherwise your government is just a bunch of oppressive asshates; illegtimate; and need to be overthrown.
vVtwAnRXGyc4LxxHo0bFvMOQ/H0fFcmn
There really is no difference between the good guys and the bad guys, is there?
De-encryption back doors are not an answer.
"De-encryption?" Please hand your nerd card in on the way out the door.
... calling everyone a "conspiracy theorist" who should get his "tin foil hat", and saying that the moon landing ... holocaust ... NSA leaks never happened.
(Disclaimer for the trigger-happy people: I'm not comparing the holocaust to the leaks. Obviously. I'm exaggerating, to make a hyperbole. So relax. ... I'm also not saying the NSA's actions didn't cause a lot of deaths.)
I work on commercial encryption software - you know, banks and the like.
Problem 1) Even if you turned up with a warrant putting in a backdoor would be illegal somewhere we sell software. Not taking that risk personally.
Problem 2) Our customers find out and no more customers. So the company won't be taking that risk either.
Problem 3) Given that you could hack bank accounts one of the little angels you employ at some point would. Pretty much illegal everywhere and I'd and the company would be accessories.
Not happening. Not sure how it'd be dealt with, but likely by relocating the work to somewhere without laws like that.
If you want to use a straw man, dear NSA bimbo/troll, I recommend one that you actually know anything real about, urod.
But way to go, using an argument, crafted from a projection of yourself.
If you don't like this, move to Somalia and enjoy the anarchy.
You really are a stupid motherfucker.
I'd like to meet you so I can show you what a faggot you really are.
The people behind this need to be forcibly "backdoored" and I don't mean in the surprise buttsex sense. Everyone behind these propositions to neuter encryption needs to be shown how bad a back door can be for them on a very personal level. Think the 1995 film "Hackers" and what they did to troll the Secret Service boss in the movie, "Richard Gill." These cunts think they're above the rules they set; they need to be shown that they can't ignore reailty by being dragged down from their ivory towers and forced to do what tech companies lovingly refer to as "dogfooding." The crucial thing is that whoever exacts mischief upon them has to also leave a message reminding them that they're going through what their bullshit "backdoors" would enable to happen to the innocent public at large.
If your phone/computer OEM can force you to use only specified firmware, the spooks can force them to modify the firmware in ways that betray the user.
Except that the spooks have no legal authority to compel the tech firms to do that, and the tech firms have a huge incentive to refuse to cooperate and to publicly fight back.
The people will win on this because the corporations are on our side.
Try not to annoy or threaten the very folks you're relying upon for a solution.
Just like pissing off the wait staff before your food arrives, nothing good can come of it.
Though government officials aren't typically known for their amazing insight :|
If there's a backdoor, there's no encryption.
Given we don't see politicians publishing their bank account details and credit card numbers, we can assume politicians really don't understand the consequences of their proposals.
Ignorance is a really bad place to be making decisions from.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
only outlaws will have encryption.
I thought there were some constitutional protections in the US to prevent this type of thing from happening, but I guess not.
Most of the terrorist activities I've seen reported were using unencrypted communications.
Social media sites provide a treasure trove of suspects with simple searches. I mean really, just start with all the twitter/youtube/facebook rants and work your way down from that.
But I guess that's too hard for the 5 eyes.
Anyone know of anything like this?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
"cyka blyat!!"
I blame Booz Allen and the NSA more than Snowden. Even if Snowden hadn't leaked, the slipshod way everyone was dealing with classified information would have eventually led to some form of disclosure.
Spycraft is a highly specialized and weird world, and the tradecraft and secrets involved should not be available to those without a need to know. The NSA should have compartmentalized and encrypted their own secrets much better. All Snowden should have seen, as an IT worker and poorly-vetted young contractor, were streams of random characters sitting in inboxes and file systems. He could still mount filesystems and keep data flowing through networks without being able to read or understand the data.
If the NSA isn't employing quantum computing both for encryption and decryption by now, then every US citizen should be prepared to have foreign terms forced upon them in some arena. That's a polite way of saying we'll get our asses kicked. I sincerely hope that the ad nauseam calls for back doors is just a smoke screen or false flag maneuver.
Now, this is probably going to be highly unpopular here, but here's my take on privacy: If the feds are able to crack my private encrypted messages, the all the more power to them. If they use my private information in dealing with hostile foreign actors, I got no complaint. However, if they use this information - directly - to persecute me for any activity, illegal or not, then that's crossing a red line. If instead they tip the FBI who are able to obtain warrants, and then they bust me, then that's fair. if, on the other hand, I use encryption techniques that they cannot reasonably crack, then they can park a van across the street from my house and peer at me through the windows. Or just knock on the door and offer to clean my carpets for free.
But trying to tell a US citizen within the borders of the United States that they cannot communicate and encrypt using any method available to them - i.e. math and creative problem solving - is crossing the red line of tyranny.
Shpx lbh, lbh ynml pbpx fhpxref. Dhvg ovgpuvat gung lbhe wbo vf uneq naq chfu gur obhaqnevrf bs grpuabybtl gb trg lbhe fuvg qbar. Sbe rknzcyr, frr gur uvfgbel bs gur Ravtzn pbqr naq gur ahpyrne obzo.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
... the firmware is only the third thing that needs to be under your control.
You *personally* need to inspect the Verilog code for the CPU. And look out for underhanded backdoors! ... or any kind of computing hardware... you already lost.
Then you *personally* have to translate them into a layout. If you use a compiler to do it
After that, you have to etch the CPU *personally*. Using only dumb devices with zero intelligence.
NOW you can worry about software. Unless you need a mainboard with smart components... fucking up your whole plan.
But given that you managed to make a super-crude CPU yourself... (which is definitely possible, but will take some time) ... ... ...
you can program it with a hand-written and hand-compiled program, that allows you to build more complex compilers and CPU designer tools. Also, you can use it to create smarter etching hardware.
And so on
And then, somebody sneaks in while you sleep, and inserts a backdoor anyway.
So you need proper guards and physical security to keep them out. Using no smart device of any kind that you didn’t build yourself with the above method.
Or somebody finds a flaw in your work. And you're fucked anyway.
Firmware is a loong way down that line.
When an agency is so powerful, that they can actually get you to run on hardware specifically designed to let them in, none of the above matters.
But I have good news: The NSA would probably not bitch about encryption, if that were the case for many devices nowadays.
Also, the NSA loves to spread, how it is soo big and powerful and can do absolutely everything, while their opponents are powerless and utterly incompetent, yet somehow magically also super-dangerous threats. ^^
Encryption will be broken, but each time this gets close to happening, new and more interesting and novel encryption methods are published.
We did not grant rights to these elected governments to have ultimate surveillance powers over us, citizens.
Those that read this: vote. Query your candidates for their position on privacy and surveillance. Ask them outright, and feel free to distribute the answers to these questions. Then vote. Get those who can't easily vote to the polls. Make your positions known.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
ANY BACK DOORS YOU PUT INTO ENCRYPTION WILL BE USED BY EVERYONE, NOT JUST THE GOVERNMENT!
Moreover, any back doors you put into encryption will be ABUSED by everyone...INCLUDING the Government.
So. In response.
No. Eat a dick.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Maybe I should have said decryption.
There was a reason I said de-encryption. I am hoping a Slashdot reader sends a link to my comment to someone with no technical knowledge, but who has power over governmental issues. I was thinking maybe that person wouldn't know the meaning of decryption.
Also, Slashdot comments represent me at my worst, in some ways. Often I spend time writing a Slashdot comment when I am very busy doing other things.
This is a great idea. The problem with it is the honest folks will look at the requirements and think "aww hell no", while those who are less than honest will be looking for loopholes and places to hide their income stream.
IMHO, I suspect this is half our problem with our "elected officials". The other half is, no matter how honest you are the system forces you to be corrupt. Where corrupt is defined by anything you or I would call corrupt, but congress sees as business as usual. See also congresscritters required to spend x hours per week at a call center drumming up money.
Then you have the absolute idiots like Duncan Hunter, who one day throws his wife under the bus, and the next day says "keep my wife out of it".
It's only a mind game.
Seven billion people believe they can do nothing about it, because they believe they are all alone, because seven billion people believe they can do nothing about it. ... Or they believe that there is no threat.
Because a few hundred thousand say so.
Even if we vastly exaggerate their numbers to seven million... That's still a 1000:1 ratio. ... and it'd be done.
They'd just have to walk up to the building... walk into the building... or besiege them until they walk out
Even machine guns and grenades and tanks and bombers can't stop a 1000:1 ratio. For which they'd have to recruit the military. Which are people too. Who, other than them, aren't exactly keen on murdering their own people, no matter what they are being told.
Not to forget how many of those 7 billion have access to their own army equipment and ARE the military.
What matters is only, who can control the biggest swarm of human drones through their minds.
And I believe that stupid intelligence apparat need to be executed in the most inhumane and humiliating manner possible. ON LIVE TV!
Isn't it nice to have beliefs?
Also, beliefs are what you have when you lack any real evidence (in short, you're making shit up).
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
If the technology is developed to read our memories then...
You should get off the computer once in a while.
You're getting kind of weird.
They think this is their decision to make. It is not. They should STFU before lawful measures are used to remind them of their place, which they would do well to start minding.
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ng yrnfg gel.
Discussions on Americans stance on this issue aren't that much relevant to what the 5eyes are saying here. it only takes ONE of the five to enact legislation, then the other four can use them as a go through.
Australia already has this legislation in the pipeline (currently in public comment phase).
handy pre-filled submission opposing the legislation can be found here https://digitalrightswatch.org.au/2018/08/19/defend-encryption/ with a leftist but still amusing video to watch while you do so.
> Except that the spooks have no legal authority to compel the tech firms to do that,
They can, and have, in the past. Remember when SSL keys were limited to 80-bits for export use? Remember when they've insisted that Cisco include backdoor keys in their hardware? Remember the design of the Clipper Chip, which was only discarded when it was found that people could generate their own private keys that passed the checks for the "Law Enforcement Agency Field" checks?
Trump's tax returns.
I wouldn't say the corporations are on our side. They're on their own side.
But to the extent they'll start losing sales as people realize those small but expensive boxes they sell are little more than 1984's "televisors" made portable (great, Big Brother is not just watching and listening, he's in your pocket), it is in their self-interest to resist this.
However, with enough pressure, they'll knuckle under. Look at Google's principled stand on censored search-engines in China (*cough*), for example.
-- Alastair
One of the documents that was leaked or referenced was the system used to crack encryption (WindsorGreen/WindsorBlue).
https://theintercept.com/2017/...
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."
Henry Hill: [narrating] Now the guy's got Paulie as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Paulie. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Paulie. Trouble with the cops, deliveries, Tommy, he can call Paulie. But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
behold the magic but very real power of the secret security letter. that can, and already does, compel internet and technology companies (and others) to do things like this that they'd rather not, and also never tell anyone about it... least of all, the targets of the supposed investigations.
F*ck five eyes and F*ck all these government stooges that think it ok to sky on innocent citizens
Breaking encryption and coming up with better encryption isn't even the game anymore. What use is any encryption when they've got the Intel Management Engine co-processor snooping on everything passing through your screen, microphone, camera, and keyboard? It's built into the silicon of your computer's CPU, whilst being invisible to the portion of the CPU that you are permitted to use. Same thing going on in our cell phones, where you aren't allowed root access to your own devices and you're always supposed to write your software far above the bare metal through layers upon layers of abstraction that is likely man in the middle attackware.
Internet 3.0 will be based on recycled IBM PC/XT's and sneaker nets.
I say just give them ALL the "encrypted data" they ask for. Let them figure out how to actually decrypt it.
IRL, any laws passed to enforce this will have the following effects: 1. APT will just make their own "clean" variations of various encryption protocols, and these will forever be beyond the grasp of Five Eyes. 2. Someone will find the "master keys", and the REAL fun will begin as all compromised protocols will be "open season", and the entire system will be compromised 3. The Five Eyes will develop their own, non-compromised protocols for military communications; but will be unable to allow all the various contractors access so this too will be vulnerable.
Encryption need not necessarily be broken. One-time pads, for example, remain crypotgraphically robust, even with quantum computing applied to them.
It's about power and control. Government likes it. Police like it. Intimidation in the name of public safety is a time-honored madness.
That politicians exempt themselves from most things is to be expected. You'll know corruption has ended and snowballs will make it through hell when they stop being privileged. We're animals, and being alpha is part of your legacy and mine.... and some of use exercise that tendency more than others.
Handing over your keys is a big problem for most people. Others will trustingly (or in deep fear) relinquish them. Or if you're Google, you'll sell them to the highest bidder.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
You know what encryption with backdoors is called? Plaintext.
If the NSA, one of the worlds largest and most sophisticated intelligence organizations failed to keep some extremely sensitive and classified information secret, how can any other organization be trusted. I'm afraid that we *CAN* fault the entire program for a single slip up. if government agencies have backdoors to data, then those backdoors would be very valuable to a wide range of organizations.
I say we give the government another chance in say 50 years after this last breach. That should give them time to clean up their mistakes.
Privacy *IS* absolute, otherwise it isn't privacy.
If they want backdoored encryption, let them use it first, CIA, NSA, FBI, Gestapo, etc... After all their shit is exposed, then they'll fucking get it.
We are on-schedule for Transparency Act of 2022 to outlaw all clothing.
"Racist" -- ding ding ding FAIL! Thanks for playing.
this is what the 2nd amendment was created for. kill all fascists now. if they take over again, with modern technology, the dictatorship will never end.
Perhaps they are better described as "The 5 Noses", though they seem unable to identify shit they create.
Let countries write ther own rules. Who elected and pays for this shadow group? They only seek to erode the liberties and freedoms of their citizens.
Shpx lbh, lbh ynml pbpx fhpxref. Dhvg ovgpuvat gung lbhe wbo vf uneq naq chfu gur obhaqnevrf bs grpuabybtl gb trg lbhe fuvg qbar. Sbe rknzcyr, frr gur uvfgbel bs gur Ravtzn pbqr naq gur ahpyrne obzo.
Fuck you, you lazy cock suckers. Quit bitching that your job is hard, and push the boundaries of technology to get your shit done. For example: see the history of the enigma code and the nuclear bomb.
Solved by pushing the boundaries of a technology button here.
I'm not promoting or implying that I would take part in any rebellious acts when I point out that there are historical precedents that those in power would do well to consider. They are vastly outnumbered and as a result of this their power is not absolute.
Warning: This signature may offend some viewers.
Privacy IS absolute. Once Government breaches privacy and introduces surveillance you by definition do not have privacy anymore.
Same goes for free speech, free speech IS absolute, once you have restrictions on speech, speech is by definition restricted and not free.
This is a big reason why establishment parties left and right in all 5 of those countries need to be kicked out. Trump and Brexit are not loud enough warnings.
Make SELinux enforcing again!
The government can get the private https keys from the corporations or "Tom Cruise" them. Even more fun, with a little help from the ISPs they can just hijack any webbrowsing connection and blow through the security holes in all the (crap) web browsers and install backdoors on any machine they want. Even if you run your browser in a no-privilege account they can just blow through that using a privilege escalation vulnerability (shit OS's).
Cartoonishly villainous yet comically inept
Gestapo officers, ostensibly responsible for computer security, advocate for draconian new badlaws to weaken computer security.
Which, in a democracy, is every citizen.
Security-state information hoarding is incompatible with democracy and liberty.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Five Fascist Alliance
Move to North Korea !
Which, in a democracy, is every citizen.
Security-state information hoarding is incompatible with democracy and liberty.
Reference please.
The buying and selling of information and secrets has been alive and well in every democracy since the Greeks created it. In fact, ancient Greeks were famous for hiding secrets in creative ways.
Now, if you were to say:
Which, in a democracy, should be every citizen.
Then I would be inclined to agree with you. But, that's a subjective judgement call. If enough of our peers agree, then it should be codified into law.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
**IFF** these governments can show that they can install secure backdoors accessible only to law enforcement, *with the appropriate warrants and judicial oversight*, that cannot be subsequently hacked by nefarious actors, then, and only then, might I even *consider* whatever merits their argmuent may have.
I won't hold my breath.
What about ARM Trustzone?
How many of you are entrusting your device encryption keys and other stored secrets to a general purpose processor running signed code you have no control over?
Short of a revolution in microprocessor manufacturing allowing small grey market cpu and chipset manufacturers to pop up, we've already lost this war and even the technically minded are acting too small minded to see the complete picture. Pick your dystopian future, we've got aspects of all of them available today. All that is being waited for is market saturation before it all gets turned on.
Mark my words. Clipper is here and for most of you privacy is dead. The rest of us will be purged out over time as the background noises doesn't cover our unlawful encrypted streams anymore.
The future isn't the internet, it's the mesh of dark volunteer or criminal run networks that come after, interoperating to allow your communications an end run around the network surveillance existing in the Western *cough*Civilized*snicker* world.
This would be fixed if Apple and Google both shutdown all encrypted Apps two weeks before the next federal election in Australia. They should get everyone's phone to say "Your politicians are idiots, encryption is turned off at their request, we don't support our software in Australia anymore. Welcome to the stone age!"
Do that two weeks before the next election (when postal voting opens) and even the safe seats MPs will be out of a job. No other political party will ever try this again anywhere in the world at least for a few decades.
The encryption is bothering them because they get a box they can't open... what if they don't even have a box?
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Shut up you fake news faggot shill INCEL deplorable uneducated cis-hetero gaylord running dog trumptard Russian NAZI alt-right bolshevik anti-Semitic Zionist Chinese cock-gobbling fascist mansplaining French fundamentalist SJW shitfucker MRA strawman trailer trash inbred lesbian Hillaryist feminazi richie rich ghetto alt-left white supremacist PEDOPHILE wetback spic mick wop nlgger chink kike redneck dago camel jockey bourgeois puritanical crackhead liberturdian commie poopy-head TRAITOR!
If the feds are able to crack my private encrypted messages, the all the more power to them. If they use my private information in dealing with hostile foreign actors, I got no complaint. However, if they use this information - directly - to persecute me for any activity, illegal or not, then that's crossing a red line. If instead they tip the FBI who are able to obtain warrants, and then they bust me, then that's fair.
Hold up. You think it's "fair" for the US government to secretly spy on US Citizens en mass without suspicion let alone probable cause, then secretly use that information to initiate an investigation that leads to imprisonment?
Edward Snowden revealed Israel as the Sixth Eye.
If you want backdoors, you undermine your security. And this is asymmetric. Because the security of your hospitals, power plants, electrical grid, communications infrastructure, emergency response, water treatment plants, military(!) and so on, will also be subverted. In contrast, any adversaries probably don't care about infrastructure because they don't run any.
Basically what these morons are saying is "we want to open our whole infrastructure to abuse by criminals, terrorists and other adversaries".
"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
Banner of Independence, Beacon of Humanity (41)
Global Independence
The Juche-oriented revolutionary theory illuminates the essence of global independence in an all-round way.
Today, the imperialist reactionary forces faced with their doom are making desperate efforts to keep their supremacy at any cost. The present situation demands that all countries and nations turn out in the struggle for frustrating the imperialists’ schemes for high-handed and arbitrary practices and aggression and their violations of sovereignty, defending their own sovereign rights and achieving global independence.
An independent world is the world that is free from domination and subordination, aggression and intervention, and where the sovereignty and equality are guaranteed for all countries and nations. The world that is free from domination and subordination, aggression and intervention and where all people across the world enjoy civilized and prosperous life on an equal footing is just the world that fully conforms with the reason and nature of a human being.
Making the world independent means, first of all, eliminating domination and subordination, aggression and intervention on a world scale.
Independence is the lifeblood and dignity of a country and a nation and a symbol of an independent sovereign state. Such relationship of domination and subordination, order and obedience can never be tolerable between countries and nations. Aggression and plunder are inherent aspects of imperialism. Therefore, it is the intrinsic demand of the cause of the masses’ independence to fight against its domination and subordination, aggression and intervention. Apart from this struggle, the aspirations and demand of the world progressives for independence against domination and subordination, aggression and war cannot be realized. Maintaining independence under the present situation presents itself as a problem vital to the destiny of a country and a nation. The countries and nations aspiring to independence and justice should oppose and reject foreign intervention and domination and carve out their destiny in an independent way.
What is fundamental in the struggle for eliminating domination and subordination, aggression and intervention is to check and frustrate the moves of the US and its followers for aggression and war and safeguard global peace and security. The main target of the struggle for the cause of global independence is the US that is given to aggression, intervention and massacre wherever it reaches. Those parties, organizations and progressive countries championing independence should be closely united to put an end to the US high-handed and arbitrary practices and build a new world, free from domination and subordination, aggression and intervention.
Making the world independent also means ensuring complete sovereignty and equality between all countries and nations.
Independence is the foundation of all international relations. In order to ensure independence in politics, it is necessary to exercise complete sovereignty and equal rights in external relations. All countries have the same sovereignty as the equal members of the international community. There may be a big party and a small party, a big country and a small country, an economically-developed nation and a backward nation, but they are all equal and independent. One should not violate other’s sovereignty as well as allow other to violate one’s sovereignty. Sovereignty belongs to a sacred right of each party, country and nation. At present, the fundamental principles of the publicly accepted usage of international law are being openly violated due to the outrageous schemes of the US-led imperialist forces for domination and intervention, and even justice is being demonized as injustice according to the interests of the imperialist powers. Such abnormal acts of violating truth and justice must no longer be tolerated or connived at.
The complete sovereignty and equality between a
"We are forced to vote for people we don't really know. Most people are ignorant about much of what happens around them that affects their lives. ". Yep, if only we could find that magical pool of smart, intelligent common everyday folk who won't mind having their entire life's history exposed.
How about you go first? Post everything you have ever done here on slashdot for us all to see and consider...and no sneaky leaving out details that might appear unflattering. Be sure to include your name and home address, your occupation, your employer, your salary, your relatives, any organizations you may have joined,etc. Think hard, be complete, and don't be shy, lay it on us!!
Please, help me set up that ^^^ meme! Pretty Please.
It's an endless war that must be fought
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
All is well. Return to your cozy room. Don't forget your meds. C'mon, be a good boy, will you?
Look at Google's principled stand on censored search-engines in China (*cough*), for example.
Okay, let's look at it. There are search engines in China, big ones like Baidu, so Google not being there is not depriving them of search engines.
So the question becomes, would Google being in China benefit ordinary Chinese people? Access to knowledge is generally regarded as a good thing, despite the censorship. As we have seen when search engines get really good it becomes harder to censor stuff too.
For example, YouTube is blocked. There are some good videos teaching English for Chinese speakers on there, but people in China can't watch them. If Google censored some videos of Tiannamen Square and got YouTube unblocked, Chinese people could see those videos. And videos about how people in the west live, their hobbies, their views on all sorts of things, and their funny cats. That seems like a good thing all round.
Of course we still want the Great Firewall to come down one day, and it could be a cynical money-grab, but overall it's hard to see how Chinese people would be any worse off with a censored Google than with no Google.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
if nafta fails you might see us wthdrawl form this...no need ot cooperate with a bad nation
australia is a TPP member you gonna tarriff them next?
Secretly recorded private conversations between two citizens? The Left had no hesitation in playing them to nation in a political attack.
Campaign phones? Recorded and shared because the opposition's campaign paid a foreign agent for unsubstantiated and false accusations.
Attorney-Client conversations? Recorded and shared as well. Privacy isn't a big deal to some people.
Except of course in Roe V. Wade, which is built on an implied Constitutional right to privacy.
I get it. Privacy isn't a universal Human Right... It's only a Liberal's Right. Then, don't go messing with it!
That hypocrisy is going to come back to bite someday. See how well that nuclear option is working out for them?
The clipper chip failed because the government tried to force people to use an implementation of something that was flawed.
This story is not about the government requiring facebook or google to use clipper chips or similar.
This story is about the government saying "help us now or you'll go to jail for contempt of court when there's legislation in place to force you."
They don't need to tell facebook or google how to backdoor their crypto. They just need to point out that men in suits will go to jail for contempt of court because they won't hand over decrypted communication between two drug dealers. No lawyer or CEO is going to sleep in jail so that drug dealer conversations can remain private, that I can assure you.
Or facebook will be in a situation where it is paying $millions per day per instance in fines for non-compliance. For startups, like signal, or companies like facebook, it will simply be more affordable to comply than to not comply.
The government doesn't care how facebook/google comply, only that they do. They've got smart people working there so I'm sure a solution will be found.
As we have seen in the last several elections over the last 50 years pr so, voting does not work. Otherwise we would not have been in this mess.
With the defacto bi-party system, people can select 1 item and vote for that. If any other item agrees with how they voted, you are lucky.
And even then you can only hope that it will influence anything and they do not change their mind and vote against whatever they where for to begin with.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Um, no. Totally disagree with you entirely. There is no recourse from this disagreement.
It's ugly, but it's salvageable. And I must fight your attitude because you're part of the dystopia. Once you surrender your democracy, you're one of *them*, enslaved to ennui and servitude. Enjoy your overlords.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
That is an extremely scary thought.
The fight goes between government and companies who buy that government. Nobody cares about the people.
And if those people get ignored enough, they tend to not like it. And that is often followed by a lot of blood all over the place.
I just hope that when (not if) that happens I am not here anymore. So guys, wait another 50-75 years for the next revolution.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I aplaud your willingness to support the freedoms of others even when you would personally prefer they not have them. Our job will have just begun when married lesbian couples and their adopted children can defend their peyote farms with rocket launchers and secure open source encryption, without having broken any laws. Need to work reasonable copyright lengths and right to repair in there somehow. John deer tractor modded to play legally torrented Disney movies maybe?
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Privacy that is not absolute is not privacy.
Qwest was on our side. Where are they now?
..and easy access to handguns. What a BRILLIANT society you have. Totally gonna invest my monies in your sinking shithole cuntry.. fo so!
GTFO with your facts and rationality. This is the Amerikuks & Handcocks Hours.
It's only fair and right that Big Brother should know everything we are thinking or saying because Big Brother loves us and has all of our best interests in mind always. Where would we be without Big Brother taking care of us?
We're all pretty goddamned close at this point in the history of the human race to living in such when so-called 'law enforcement', acting more like jackbooted thugs, can start 'demanding' these things in the name of 'national security'.
When strong encryption is OUTLAWED, only OUTLAWS will have strong encryption!
Say it with me now, gentlemen and ladies. These assholes in our respective governments don't give a rat's ASS about us little irrelevant 'citizens', so long as their lust for power and control is always satisfied. Them, them, FUCK THEM sideways with a rusty chainsaw.
issued a statement warning they believe "privacy is not absolute" and tech companies must give law enforcement access to encrypted data or face "technological, enforcement, legislative or other measures to achieve lawful access solutions.
Privacy never was absolute and it isn't absolute today. That does not mean that privacy should not exist. They can have a backdoor just as soon as they can prove two things. 1) That the government will not have the capacity to abuse said backdoor and 2) that criminals and other bad actors will have no means of accessing said back door.
Of course since both of those things are in actual fact impossible then they can fuck off and go die in a fire. There is no such thing as a secure backdoor by definition. If the cost of security is that the government has to work harder to spy on me then so much the better.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."
Hanlon's razor should apply here. Backdoors make law enforcement's job easier, so it's no surprise that most everyone in that business favors it. But that's where we all need to speak up and vote for those who will protect our rights.
Just another day in Paradise
This evil organization has to be destroyed immediately. Five Eyes is a way of each country spying on the others' citizens for political purposes and sharing the information while avoiding lawsuits and having plausible deniability. The reason they're all English-speaking is because the Queen and her Rothschild parasites control the whole thing. It is time for the Second American War for Independence.
Well, one time pads are secure from compute-driven attacks, when used properly, but they have logistical problems. To be used broadly, you have to distribute the "pad" to everyone, repeatedly sending new "pads" periodically as you use up the old ones, and anyone who gets the new "pad" can read everything, so security is only as good as pad distribution. So, really, one time pads really only work in very specific cases, like communication between a very small group of trusted individuals who meet physically to exchange pads, and who can be trusted never to give a pad to anyone else. So it's not useful for (for example) eCommerce, banking, or general communications.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
"Hey that's an awfully neat tax avoidance scheme you have there, it'd be a shame is something happened to it"
maybe everybody should just copyright everything they do online.
since this isn't about privacy at all but rather they want to pull AND COPY your data without your consent, thus acting like so-called "pirates".
once all your own-created data is copyrighted from the get go, then all "stealing" of your data should get you the same law-hammer coming down but this time on the right side : )
overall the situation is miserable: so much old tech gear that isn't backdoored will land in china landfills were all the precious metals are extracted and the obsolete gear has to be replaced only to be able to say "we can do it too", whilst china gets a GOLD medal that says: "we won" and in fine print "sponsored by USA" : )
probably the new "mandated" backdoor gear will be financed by voters who paid tax to government that uses it to help "improve the internet" for the less successful areas of the country ...
the API that has to work across all backdoorS is going to be a nightmare; i predict it is going to cost more (including insurance for API failure scenarios) then the 'murikan army ever cost.
If you focus surveillance and human resources (bugs,recording conversations, purchase histories, location history etc) on highly suspect individuals then encryption isn't going to be much of an impediment to finding and prosecuting bad actors. PGP after all stands for "Pretty Good Privacy"... understanding that the levels of encryption they are talking about merely prevent automated mass surveillance at low cost.
So what this is really about is the kind of bid data dragnet surveillance that you build huge data centers for in order to search through trillions of emails, text messages, phone calls and other electronic communications hoping to find people among the millions that you otherwise would never have a reason to suspect in the first place...
If someone is just going about their life and never does anything that draws any suspicion except in the minutia of their electronic communications with other people who are also not suspected of anything or in their private documents then I think as a society we should be willing to accept that level of risk because the risks of creating a police state and the massive societal level violence that inevitably results from the systemic abuses of such dysfunctional societies are much much higher.
It's astonishing that there now seems to be such a strong combination of ignorance and paranoia among western governments, that they now refuse to believe experts when they try to tell them how something as universal as math works. Instead, it seems simpler for them to believe that every scientist, mathematician and technological expert is lying to them when it comes to encryption. Because, it is too hard for them to truly understand and they don't wish to accept the consequences of how it works. It's easier to fall-back on familiar tactics of legislation and intimidation. There's no way this is going to work out well for them.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In order to pretect their interests and their citizens civilised countries need to buldl a kind of firewall to lbock information from reaching the '5 eyes' counties.
It's an evil plan: Somehow, Switzerland has managed to convince those 5 governments that they have to prevent decent, secure encryption from being commercially viable in those countries. Without decent encryption in their own countries, people will have to seek other countries that are known for their security and discretion where they can keep their data safe -- Switzerland of course!
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
"If instead they tip the FBI who are able to obtain warrants, and then they bust me, then that's fair."
Whoa there, DanDD! What you are describing is called a fishing expedition, and that's exactly part of the problem with mass surveillance. Who's to say what the government will decide to ban, and perhaps retroactively? Are you willing to expose your life to persecution on, let's say, your political beliefs? How about your lifestyle? What if someone in power decides that you aren't "their kind of people" and they decide to make your life difficult?
Warrentless surveillance that then leads to warrants is a perversion of justice and due process. It is not "fair".
Who else thinks it's a good idea to stick each of your 5 fingers in each of their assholes?
In a world where privacy no longer existed
where technology reigned supreme
and surveillance has been exposed
ONE MAN dared ask, Are we surveilling enough?
In theaters near you, December 2018
King Edward I "Longshanks":
Not the archers. My scouts tell me their archers are miles away and no threat to us. Arrows cost money. Use up the Irish. The dead cost nothing.
"encourage information and communications technology service providers to voluntarily establish lawful access solutions to their products and services." Translated "We can't do anything without back doors, give us back doors or ELSE!"
Uh huh. And you think members of Congress are going to pass an amendment which reduces their power?
Your only real alternative is an Article V convention which bypasses Congress. Of course, as soon as you do that, all your enemies will begin offering THEIR amendments, and in the end The Constitution will be destroyed by crazy amendments.
your governments already have access to your encrypted cpmmunication.
why do you think browsers made it harder to look at the certificates?
check your trusted roots if you don't believe it.
Shpx lbh, lbh ynml pbpx fhpxref. Dhvg ovgpuvat gung lbhe wbo vf uneq naq chfu gur obhaqnevrf bs grpuabybtl gb trg lbhe fuvg qbar. Sbe rknzcyr, frr gur uvfgbel bs gur Ravtzn pbqr naq gur ahpyrne obzo.
And look what the government did to A.Turing after all his hard work and dedication. He had enough sense to keep himself alive for many years during his chemical castration, his death was treated as suicide, but most likely it was accidental.
The Five Eyes thinks that privacy is relative while surveillance is absolute. These guys are supposed to be the good guys.