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$11M Worth of Legally-Purchased Music Will Be Confiscated From Florida's Prisoners (tampabay.com)

An anonymous reader quotes the Tampa Bay Times: In April last year, the Florida Department of Corrections struck a deal with JPay. The private company, spearheading a push to sell profit-driven multimedia tablets to incarcerated people across the country, would be allowed to bring the technology to every facility in the nation's third-largest prison system. But there was a catch. Inmates had already been purchasing electronic entertainment for the last seven years -- an MP3 player program run by a different company: Access Corrections. For around $100, Access sold various models of MP3 players that inmates could then use to download songs for $1.70 each, and keep them in their dorms.... More than 30,299 players were sold, and 6.7 million songs were downloaded over the life of the Access contract, according to the Department of Corrections. That's about $11.3 million worth of music.

Because of the tablets, inmates will have to return the players, and they can't transfer the music they already purchased onto their new devices... The Department of Corrections, meanwhile, has collected $1.4 million in commissions on each song downloaded and other related sales since July 2011... JPay already operates banking accounts and facilitates phone calls at the state-run prisons, charging inmates and their loved ones steep fees for the services. With the introduction of tablets, JPay will add a wide swath of new spending incentives for its incarcerated customers, offering purchases of music, emailing and other virtual fare.

As a compromise, prison officials offered to download the already-purchased music to a CD, and then mail that CD to someone outside the prison. For a $25 fee.

144 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the wrong people are in prison.

    1. Re:Sounds like by alvinrod · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      If you do it's probably because this has nothing to do with the state legislature as they don't run the DoC and wouldn't be responsible for this. If it makes you feel better you can still image it's all the evil Republicans' fault since the governor of Florida is a Republican and he would be the one ultimately in charge and responsible for appointing the secretary that would oversee the agency.

    2. Re:Sounds like by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, but this is one of those issues on which the parties are united. There's no point trying to win the support of prisoners - they can't vote, they generally don't have any great wealth to donate to a party, and they aren't socially influential. Plus the public has little to no sympathy for them. Indeed, many have the opposite of sympathy - people actually enjoy hearing that the lives of prisoners have been made a bit more miserable, and get angry upon learning that any sort of action has been taken which might make their lives more tolerable. So it does not matter if Republicans or Democrats are in charge: They'll both screw over prisoners. The only difference I can think of is that Republicans are more likely to grant Christian minsters free access to prisoners in the belief that finding Jesus will heal them of their criminal tendencies.

    3. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      they generally don't have any great wealth to donate to a party

      It's almost as if when you have great wealth, you can hire lawyers to dissect every possible technicality or generally hire lawyers with great charisma. Meanwhile, 95% of the population takes a plea deal because the alternative is a public defender who has 10 minutes to review your case. Nothing off about this situation at all.

      Sad how often I think about how Star Trek so well captures the spirit:

      SISKO: They’ll be tried for their crimes under the Federation Code of Justice.
      DUKAT: And if they’re found innocent?
      SISKO: I doubt that they will, but if they are, they’ll be set free.
      DUKAT: How barbaric. On Cardassia, the verdict is always known before the trial begins. And it’s always the same.
      SISKO: In that case, why bother with a trial at all?
      DUKAT: Because the people demand it. They enjoy watching justice triumph over evil every time. They find it comforting.
      SISKO: Isn’t there ever a chance you might try an innocent man by mistake?
      DUKAT: Cardassians don’t make mistakes.

      In the US, it's "Cardassians don't make mistakes, unless the suspect is rich like a Kardassian."

    4. Re:Sounds like by rossz · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's no point trying to win the support of prisoners - they can't vote,.

      They're trying to change that here in California.

      https://ballotpedia.org/Califo...

      No. I do not agree with this and plan on voting against it.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    5. Re: Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And why is that? Why can't a debt to society be paid and rights restored?

    6. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why? These are still human beings and are still members of society.
      There seems to be far too much emphasis on simply taking revenge on people by locking them up instead of solving the social issues which put them on the wrong side of the law. In fact apart from crimes of violence and dealing particularly nasty drugs, a large number of those people probably shouldn't even be in prison. It's about time society learnt to deal with the problem of crime in a new way, help and guide people to a better path instead of hiding them behind walls and trying to pretend your problem has been solved.

    7. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're trying to change that here in California.

      https://ballotpedia.org/Califo...

      No. I do not agree with this and plan on voting against it.

      And I will be voting for this. They are still citizens.

    8. Re: Sounds like by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      The public might have very little sympathy for prisoners but even people I know who have little sympathy for criminals don't like seeing them taken advantage of. Most people aren't going to shed a tear about a prisoner not having access to a cell phone, hbo, or conjugal visits but most people are still sympathetic to prisoners as captive audiences being screwed by outrageously priced long distance or having something stolen from them that they legally purchased.

    9. Re:Sounds like by mlyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, simple logic... if the number of prisoners is reasonable, allowing them to vote makes no difference on election outcomes. And if the number of prisoners is unreasonable, holy shit, we're disenfranchising a big set of society-- not letting them have any influence on the laws that have been used against them.

      IMO "not letting prisoners/felons/etc" vote is a huge fuck-up/back door to democracy. All you need to do to erode the political influence of a class is criminalize things associated with that class.

    10. Re:Sounds like by rossz · · Score: 2

      By their own actions, convicted felons doing time are not part of regular society, so they don't get a say in how it should operate. There are consequences to engaging in criminal activity.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    11. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In some countries it is (or has been) illegal to have a certain religion or practice it, even where it causes no harm to others.

      You have to have a good definition of what consitutes a morally defensible criminalisation of an activity for your assertion to be reasonable. I'd argue that intention, harm, consent, the capability to give consent, are some of the factors to consider.

    12. Re:Sounds like by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      This comment confused me at first, as Christian Democrat, to me, has a specific meaning as a set of European political parties!

    13. Re: Sounds like by astrofurter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Remember, 95% of inmates in the federal Gulag were coerced into making a false confession ("plea bargain"). They were NOT convicted by a jury of their peers. Their convictions are ipso facto illegitimate, and the kangaroo courts that sentenced them are contemptible.

    14. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By their own actions, convicted felons doing time are not part of regular society, so they don't get a say in how it should operate.

      Even most criminals are part of regular society in the vast majority of their transactions. The ilk of Shawney Bean is comparatively rare.

    15. Re:Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 2

      Here in Nevada, once you have served your sentence complete(expiration) All of your human rights with the exception of ownership of a firearm are reinstated. Including voting. Sure I committed a crime, I also did my time. Why can I not be treated fairly like every American again? Or do you like the fact that once you are a felon, its very hard to get a job and get a head in life which means most people resort back to the same things that landed them in prison in the first place. Prison is supposed to be to rehabilitate people, not turn them into life long criminals. Do you have a good reason to demonize somebody after they paid their debt to society? Because at this moment you seem to be a snobby cunt that cares about nobody but their self. You are old and from California, so I'm not too much surprised either.

    16. Re: Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It would stop the DA from throwing every charge at you hoping something sticks. When I was arrested for my crimes one of the charged was 'kidnapping' it was added to try to scare me, and to make sure bail was higher than any normal person could ever afford. That should be illegal.

    17. Re: Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      The real fucked up thing about this is, its the prisoners family and friends that send them the money to get these items, so not only does shit like this hurt the inmates, it does the same to their family members.

    18. Re: Sounds like by Cederic · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wouldn't this end up with MORE time stacked onto the these prisoner's sentence? Wouldn't this end up with MORE cost to the U.S. taxpayers for court time and incarceration time?

      No. Instead you'd see people getting a sensible tariff for their crimes, including freedom for those that committed none.

      "80 years if you fight or 8 years if you plea guilty to this lesser crime" isn't justice. Either they committed crimes society deemed worthy of an 80 year jail term or they did not. The one thing that's pretty fucking certain is that they didn't commit a crime worth an 8 year punishment.

      So try them for the crimes they're alleged to have committed. If you only want them in prison for 8 years, change the tariffs for those crimes so that a judge can give them 8 years.

      Right now people plead guilty because of coercion, fear and the cost of fighting to prove their innocence. That's not justice, and "justice is too expensive" is if anything worse.

    19. Re:Sounds like by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Why do you hate democracy?

      Why do you support slavery?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re: Sounds like by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's indirectly charging the family members for the prisoner's care. Everything should be sold at cost. If they really want to charge the prisoner or the prisoner's family for their care then they should bill them directly. They shouldn't be trying to make a profit off of them. At least with most captive audiences like six flags or movie theatres you still have options to not participate. Prisoners don't generally have that as a realistic option especially when it comes to stuff like long distance but even in this case the prisoner made a reasonable contract with the prison that the prison has now reneged on.

    21. Re: Sounds like by rossz · · Score: 1

      This is about convicted criminals who are still paying their debt. Giving back their voting rights AFTER they are released is a different matter entirely.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    22. Re: Sounds like by houghi · · Score: 2

      If a society thinks it is funny and normal to be raped in prison, you have an issue.
      It means you have not yet understood the difference between revenge and punishment (let alone rehabilitation)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    23. Re: Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Yea, those are the types of charges that makes a man say fuck it, and at that point they go all in. This is how you increase the amount of gang members in prisons which leads to more crime from somebody that normally would have not committed crimes after a short sentence of say 1-3 years. Also breeds vendetta, had i been wrongly accused of something like that and had done 15 years, murder would be the only thing I cared about when I got out. Its harder coming out and changing your life than it is going in. You probably wont understand that statement unless you have been where I and apparently a few others here have been.

    24. Re:Sounds like by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Prison is supposed to be to rehabilitate people, not turn them into life long criminals.

      But when you have a prison system that is run for profit they have no incentive to rehabilitate anyone. You say life long criminal, they say repeat customer.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    25. Re: Sounds like by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It would stop the DA from throwing every charge at you hoping something sticks. When I was arrested for my crimes one of the charged was 'kidnapping' it was added to try to scare me, and to make sure bail was higher than any normal person could ever afford. That should be illegal.

      That's why I'm glad in my country it is.

      Here if the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) wants to charge you with a crime, they need sufficient evidence that there is a legitimate cause to believe you actually did it. Why... Because if I'm falsely accused of a crime just to scare me, I can sue the accuser and they will have to pay me and my legal costs. This includes the CPS.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    26. Re: Sounds like by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      If a society thinks it is funny and normal to be raped in prison, you have an issue.
      It means you have not yet understood the difference between revenge and punishment (let alone rehabilitation)

      Yep. That's a whole different problem. Prisons are broken. You have people literally in cages with 24/7 surveillance and somehow they still can't enforce basic rules against drugs, rape, and smuggled cell phones. I'm not sure if it's a lack of money, bad bureaucracy, or just complete incompetence but these should be easily solved problems in a completely controlled facility.

    27. Re:Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      The majority of prisons in the us are DoC ran not privatized. However the canteen is private for some reason, which I can't figure out I can only imagine that if it was govt ran prisoners would be starving as they would be ran like the rest of the govt here.

    28. Re: Sounds like by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      You can sue for wrongful imprisonment here. I don't know how often it works or if it works or if people try. But I guess if the charges get dropped and you actually committed a crime you were convicted for you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on. It's not like they charge you with them to try to find something on you. They add the charges to raise bail total so you don't have a chance to run.

    29. Re: Sounds like by h4x0t · · Score: 1

      Politicians should have to answer to their claims about being arbitrarily "tough on crime", whatever it is they think that means.
      Prisoners count in the census. Localities get money for them being there.
      Prisoners should be able to vote from prison. And their high turnout would make people think twice about shitting on them constantly.

    30. Re:Sounds like by mlyle · · Score: 1

      Same thing China says about dissidents.

    31. Re: Sounds like by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      So if you are ever falsely convicted of a crime due to your elected government creating an environment that encourages the police and prosecutors to be more interested in looking good than in being good, you're fine with having your ultimate First Amendment right - to change that government - muzzled?

      Innocent people haven't magically stopped going to prison. Responsible government depends on checks and balances, while prisons are increasingly being operated as commercial, for-profit companies, complete with lobbyists and political financing. I hope you can do the math.

    32. Re:Sounds like by Agripa · · Score: 1

      By their own actions, convicted felons doing time are not part of regular society, ...

      Then do not let them out of prison.

    33. Re: Sounds like by Agripa · · Score: 1

      So you're saying "plea bargaining" should be eliminated and perps tried based solely on the crime committed. No one should be allowed to "plea down" their charge, even when there is overwhelming evidence against them.

      Wouldn't this end up with MORE time stacked onto the these prisoner's sentence? Wouldn't this end up with MORE cost to the U.S. taxpayers for court time and incarceration time?

      What is the benefit of your plan?

      With terms like "federal Gulag" and "kangaroo court" it sounds like someone you know has been convicted of a lesser charge. So should they then face a jury trial for their original crime and end up serving more time?

      It could cost a hell of a lot more. The benefit would be assigning a more accurate value to the cost of enforcing the law. As it is, most of this burden has been shifted and hidden.

      I would go further. Every offense, even traffic offenses, should have the right to a jury trial. If the offense does not warranty a jury trial, then the law should be reconsidered. Too many (most) municipalities use civil infractions for revenue alienating much of the population.

      And with 20 times as many jury trials, more common citizens would get to experience first hand what a farce our "justice" system is.

      Or are you trying to imply that 95% of people incarcerated by the Feds never broke the Law? Which sounds extremely implausible.

      95% did not break the law that they plied guilty to.

    34. Re:Sounds like by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      yea but talk about lobbyright , man, its supposed to be a "correctional facility" not a dumpster, but there's no specific difference between dumpster facilities (like Gothams Arkham) or correctional facilities is there. If you treat everyone inthere the same, packes like animals then thats how they gonna come out. No one gets corrected by simply being in-prison ed

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
  2. Nice scam, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How is it that being incarcerated time and again turns out to make you a legal target for scamming?

    This is stupid on so many levels. The simplest of which is that if you want to correct inmates' behaviour, it does make a difference what sort of example you're setting. Or hire others to set.

    1. Re:Nice scam, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People want revenge. They want to see the inmates suffer. It is petty and wrong, and speaks worlds about the kind of people we are.

      But that inclination is what allows this sort of thing to happen.

    2. Re: Nice scam, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Especially, the ones horribly disfigured by random US bombings.

    3. Re:Nice scam, again by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Americans are horrible. Iraqis are horrible. Prisoners are horrible. The public are horrible. Because at the end, *people* are horrible. It's their instinctual nature: Care for your family, care for your friends, and everyone else is either an enemy or doesn't exist. Everything we have built and call society over ten thousand years of civilisation is devoted to managing this fundamental problem.

    4. Re:Nice scam, again by kevmeister · · Score: 1

      And how many say and believe that they are "good Christians" who never seem to have gottn the whole point of what Christ taught. Among other things you will find Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (It's also in Deuteronomy for the Old testament followers. I suspect Paul found it there and repeated it.)

      --
      Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
    5. Re:Nice scam, again by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Wasn't it Gandhi who said something like "I like your Christ but not his followers"

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    6. Re:Nice scam, again by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Nope, the majority of people have just made one particular mistake, they let psychopaths run everything. The discussion leans heavily one way and yet the actions are opposite. Why, because we let psychopaths run the system and they do not give one fuck about what they are doing beyond it enriching and empowering them, the harm they cause, completely indifferent to it, beyond getting a perverse kick from the suffering they are causing.

      It is just a minority, that a really horrible, 1% of the general population, 15% of the prison population and 50% of violent crimes. That 1% numbers comes up fro another reason, oh yeah, we are letting the insane run what they have turned society into, an insane asylum.

      Simply test for psychopathy early and exclude them from positions where they 'WILL' cause harm.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:Nice scam, again by kevmeister · · Score: 2

      Why would my post lead you to believe that I am not a Christian? I am simply disgusted by the behavior of the many who make that claim, usually loudly and belligerently, but ignore what Christ taught.

      --
      Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
    8. Re:Nice scam, again by Dasher42 · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with the above statement. Psychopathy, narcissism, and machiavellianism comprise a "dark triad" of personality disorders in the DSM, and the callous lack of empathy they engender, the shameless harm done to others, is frightful. The problem is that these people tend to be compulsive social climbers, and will claw their way to the top and then try to remake society in their image. And they have. Thing is, they are a minority, and we have the science to keep extremely toxic people from responsibilities they shouldn't be trusted with. We should use it.

    9. Re:Nice scam, again by Arzaboa · · Score: 1

      Why would you think that just because someone isn't a Christian, that they hate Christians?

      And on why its good to hear others opinions, many times its hard to tell whats going on in one's own fishbowl until someone from the outside points it out. This is something called perspective, and every human on the planet needs a dose of it now and then, regardless of their faith.

      --
      "Speech may be free, but terrible ideas are a dime a dozen"

  3. Re:It's prison, not a spa by irving47 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the lawful purchases they made should be taken away and then they should be charged again to keep it? That's not justice. That's right up there with the RIAA policy/opinion that if I have my house burglarized, I'm legally obligated to delete the legal MP3's I have in my itunes library just because the physical CD's were stolen.

    --
    I had a sucky sig.
  4. If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's that nobody cares. For one thing politicians are terrified being soft on them will backfire ever since Willie Horton. And to be blunt "tough on crime" plays very well with the dog whistle crowd while disproportionately impacting the poor. As an added bonus incarcerating all those people takes them out of the voter poll (usually permanently, since most states make it really hard to get your rights back). That puts a lot of political pressure on politicians to come down like a ton of bricks.

    Me? It's 2018 for God's sake. There is no excuse for punishment anymore. We're adults. Either rehabilitate the person or keep them locked up and in reasonable comfort until they die. Vengeance has no place in a modern society, if for no other reason than it will eventually be turned on us all.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well said. Unfortunately a lot of people are not even a bit enlightened and are deeply stuck in the dark ages of violence.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Falos · · Score: 1

      We pretend to be a modern society, but we hardly have an enlightened population. Most of us are still shallow puppets easily manipulated by our primal urges.

      Ask any marketing group. Ask the music industry about their focus on "image". Consider the other fears/desires exploited in political campaigns. Consider the long-standing patterns (and the narrower short-term trends) you can observe in our countless hookup apps, without even being on the other side of the server. Consider that, not long ago, capital punishment was an entertainment industry. Hell yes I want to distinguish my virtue by constructing a villain for me to project against. Doubly so because I'm in a tribal huddle of like-me's. Similar mentality helps drive war, and to a more civil degree, community-based sports.

      I agree with you on what should be, but I'll be playing the edgy "everyone is stupid" with respect to the status quo.

    3. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > There is no excuse for punishment anymore.

      I'm afraid there is an enormous number of excuses for punishment. There are also some psychologically and legally supported reasons for it. The fear of consequences is a very real deterrent to many types of crime and abuse, even though it is not completely effective.

    4. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Isn't being locked up until you're cured deterrent enough?

      In fact, isn't it more of a deterrent than being released when your time is up even if you haven't reformed?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    5. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by epine · · Score: 2

      The fear of consequences is a very real deterrent to many types of crime and abuse, ...

      How do you prove that?

      Do we still have one foot firmly planted in the (inaptly named) wives' tale era? Or is this merely a handy tautology from the "starvation leads to reliable weight loss" school of inapplicable insight?

      I agree that most people don't wish to have an orange jumpsuit in their employment history. Beyond that, the dose-response relationship to incarceration is anyone's guess. Sure, you can produce a short-term ripple in the crime rate with an aggressive tough-on-crime throw-away-the-key campaign. But whether this budges the long term equilibrium—in a good way—also remains open to debate.

      Robert Sapolsky's book Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst (for my money, easily the best science book of 2017) argues layer after layer after layer that humanity has systematically overvalued the punitive signal for behaviour modification since more or less the beginning of time. (Cutting off hands, however, has effects that extend well beyond mere behaviour modification, so our primal desire to disfigure and dismember has a incontestable survival foundation.)

      My present calibration on this issue is that about 80% of our punitive desire (in the realm of behavioural deterrents) is rooted in the fact that it simply feels good to be a self-righteous asshole. The wheel of fortune spun, and pointed to some other scalawag; make hay while the sun shines (if circumstance were reversed, he or she would likely do the same to you).

      Gradually, modern societies have discovered that precipitous, preemptive reciprocation generally produces more harm than good. (Whenever the needle hangs in the balance, assholes rule the earth. Writ large, this reflexive "make accusatory hay while the sun shines" policy is tantamount to an asshole breeding ground.)

      One of the cognitive biases lately much in the news is our tendency to presume that our present circumstance derives more from good management than blind luck (thus the fortunate have always claimed). The recent gist is that having a fully developed capacity for good management (and hard work) already depends on considerable life fortune.

      The fear of consequences is a very real deterrent to many types of crime and abuse, ...

      Perhaps one can also observe that this kind of trite, timeless, baby-kissing adage is a very real deterrent to the hard thinking these difficult problems properly deserve, with all the modern tools of the 21st century now in hand.

    6. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Raenex · · Score: 1

      And to be blunt "tough on crime" plays very well with the dog whistle crowd while disproportionately impacting the poor.

      If you've ever been mugged or had your residence broken into you might feel differently, regardless of your income.

    7. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Me? It's 2018 for God's sake. There is no excuse for punishment anymore. We're adults.

      It's the new/old plan. Some people want to take the USA back to the days before 1863, but with some improvements. Here is the gameplan:
      1. Pass laws to make several harmless activities illegal.
      2. Incarcerate people under the above laws (bonus if the implementation of those laws tends to disproportionately incarcerate darker-skinned people)
      3. Obtain the benefits of slavery of the incarcerated people.
      4. Get the middle class to pay for the housing costs that in pre-1863 days the slave owner would have to pay.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    8. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      umm why should felon's (people who destroy society) be able to say have a say in society through voting????

      No taxation without representation, along with plenty of other reasons. Or states being happy to count ex-cons when it comes to the census and having the number of congressional seats allocated, same as when slaves couldn't vote but counted as 3/5 of a person for congress.

      So you can fuck off right there. Besides, what the hell do you think ex-cons are going to do - get a supervillian elected as president?

    9. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by msauve · · Score: 1

      "No taxation without representation"

      There's lots of that. I can vote where my residence is, but own some land elsewhere where we plan to eventually build and retire. I can't vote there, yet have to pay taxes.

      I'm not saying I should be able to vote in "overlapping" areas (e.g. federal or state), but I should certainly be able to vote on local municipal stuff, including property millages, where I'm paying tax without representation or vote.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    10. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's not clear that "rehabilitation" is possible. I don't think it's ever really been studied.

      OTOH, it's also not clear that if people have a chance, rehabilitation is necessary. Most people really don't want to be outcasts. Some people just don't see that they have any choice in the matter. Often their perceptions seem to be correct.

      OTOH, when hiring someone for a position of trust, I'd almost always prefer people who didn't have a valid reason to not trust them.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    11. Re: If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by grif_91 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like several people posting in this thread, I have served time in prison (four years). I can tell you that in a perfect world, where people who are rehabilitated and ready for society are released promptly, that makes some amount of sense. But you may or may not be aware, we do not live in a perfect world. A good anecdotal response is this. During my tenure as a guest of the state, I met a man in his mid to late 50s or so, who I have no doubt was rehabilitated and not a danger to society. He was serving a life sentence with the possibility of parole for first degree murder. He had been in prison since he was 20 years old. During his time in prison, he had gotten his GED, volunteered extensively with the prisonâ(TM)s chapel, learned Spanish for the sole purpose of teaching English to Spanish speakers in the prisonâ(TM)s education program, tutored GED students (as did I), written a series of childrenâ(TM)s books (being sold on Amazon now), and has taken every possible college course offered through the prisonâ(TM)s partnership with a local community college. Iâ(TM)ve never heard him utter a cross word to anyone, and he has never had any disciplinary actions against him since his incarceration. The parole board has denied him parole 3 times, stating he is not yet rehabilitated. The way the board works, they donâ(TM)t have to provide justification, they just deny. And do you know what he murdered another man for? That man raped his little sister. The American populous needs to realize that the justice system in this country often does not provide justice, and in a country that has 4% of the worlds population, and 25% of its incarcerated population, everyone is affected in some way, or they soon will be.

    12. Re: If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Prisons have no incentive to rehabilitate and release, only to keep people locked up and collect the rent.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    13. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      If you've ever been mugged or had your residence broken into you might feel differently, regardless of your income.

      You mean you're willing to judge a whole race by the actions of a single person committing a B&E? How very non-tiki-torch burning of you.

    14. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 1

      They presumably let you vote. So how much worse could it be?

    15. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Raenex · · Score: 1

      You mean you're willing to judge a whole race by the actions of a single person committing a B&E? How very non-tiki-torch burning of you.

      You mean you're willing to make everything about race, when I was talking about criminals? Do you think only blacks are criminals? Why are you so racist? I guess that explains why you see racism everywhere.

    16. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > argues layer after layer after layer that humanity has systematically overvalued the punitive signal for behaviour modification

      There is a significant behavior between this and idea that punishment does not work. That punishment can be, and has been, overused in some circumstances is not in question. There are numerous papers, such as this one from the American Psychiatric Association, http://www.apa.org/news/press/.... There is also this publication from the National Institute of Justice on the effectiveness of punishment as deterrence, https://nij.gov/five-things/pa... .

      If I might say, the NIJ publication is particularly interesting. It points out that the severity of sentencing does little to deter crime, but the _certainty_ of sentencing does.

    17. Re: If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Certainly, rehabilitation is not their _only_ mandate. But they are certainly judged and fiscally rewarded for it. And prison staff often, even normally, develop some emotional relationships with their inmates. It can be abusive, but these relationships can also be therapeutic, even becoming a sense of community or a sense of family.

    18. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by HiThere · · Score: 1

      There have been lots of studies of rehabilitation, but this is different from showing that rehabilitation works. Often what they show instead is either that some particular form of rehabilitation does/does not work in some particular context...without showing that if the context had originally been present the need would not have appeared.

      It also appears to be true that just as some people are unable to sense others emotions easily, other people are unable to see any reason not to take advantage of them. The first we call a medical conditions, the second we don't recognize...but it should properly also be considered a medical condition. Sociopath doesn't quite fit what I'm describing, though it would be a subset of it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    19. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      If you don't want to be called racist, not barking when you hear a dog whistle helps.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    20. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Are you racist too? Do you think only blacks are criminals? Is that why you always hear dog whistles?

    21. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      One person, one vote. Keeping track of voting in multiple districts would be a hot mess, and if you have enough money to have more than one property, you probably have enough money to make political donations. And politicians pay the most attention to donations, not votes.

    22. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      And yep. Playing the "You are the real racists" card. That is exactly the kind of projection that gives you away.

      Give it up, old chap. No-one believes you.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    23. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Why don't you answer the question? Do you think only blacks are criminals? Is that why you always hear dog whistles?

      You won't answer because you know, deep down, you're a racist. Those who accuse the most turn out to be the real offenders.

    24. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      You also aren't counted there in the census.

    25. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      When did you stop beating your wife?

      I don't answer questions that are not asked in good faith. Now go fuck off, you little bigoted twerp.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    26. Re:If it's one thing I've learned about prisoners by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Funny, you run around calling everybody racist based on "dog whistles", but you won't answer questions that portray your racist assumptions.

  5. for profit prisons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    scams on scams on scams.

    Someone has to love it.

  6. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The punishment is their immobility, as well as the lifelong criminal record that permanently eliminates most of their job opportunities.

    Torture, however, is not part of the punishment. Since we are keeping them prisoner, regardless of what they have done, it is on us to ensure that they are kept healthy, which includes mental health, which includes access to music.

    While true, it isn't supposed to be a luxury resort, that is a clear fallacy of excluded middle. The goal isn't to make them suffer as much as we can get away with, that's petty and wrong.

    How a society treats its criminals serves as a testament to how morally and culturally advanced that society is.

     

  7. Re:It's prison, not a spa by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It just teaches these people that right or wrong does not matter, what matters is who has more power. The message does not get more problematic than this.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  8. Re: It's prison, not a spa by kenh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a compromise, prison officials offered to download the already-purchased music to a CD, and then mail that CD to someone outside the prison. For a $25 fee.

    Is Apple as accommodating when you chose to quit using iTunes?

    Will your local cable company burn your 'legally purchased' movies to DVD when you switch to Sattelite TV?

    --
    Ken
  9. When you steal money from inmates by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's theft too. I hope the bastards get sued.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:When you steal money from inmates by jeti · · Score: 1

      If you take something with force or the threat of force, isn't it robbery?

  10. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since bought tracks on itunes dont have DRM, yes.

  11. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    why think about breaking the law when those in power break the law too? this is theft plain and simple, just because they are in a prison doesn't mean that something lawfully purchased for use should be taken from them. eventually the devices will break and go their own way.

  12. Re:Just because you are in prison... by Calydor · · Score: 2

    Obsolescence?

    The MP3 players are effectively being taken away from the inmates at gunpoint; this isn't about your Zune's battery dying and no new Zunes being available to purchase nor the Zune Store (or whatever it was called) being around anymore.

    It's theft.

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  13. While pretty bad... by GerryGilmore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...it does not even come close to the organized scam that is prison phone calls. It's nothing more than legalized theft and - NO! - just because you are incarcerated does not mean that you should be subjected to this kind of crap.

  14. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As a compromise, prison officials offered to download the already-purchased music to a CD, and then mail that CD to someone outside the prison. For a $25 fee.

    Is Apple as accommodating when you chose to quit using iTunes?

    Will your local cable company burn your 'legally purchased' movies to DVD when you switch to Sattelite TV?

    No but normally both of them would be shit out of luck trying to get my government to confiscate my Brand X tablet/smartphone/media-player and forcing me to buy their crap.

  15. I fought the law by PPH · · Score: 1

    And the law won.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  16. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Junta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is the government going to forcibly make me give up my current cable company?

    I understand the sentiment that this is prison and this is a 'first world' sort of prison problem, but it's part of a pattern of private sector exploitation of prisoners. Prisoners should not be seen as a profit engine. There's debate about reform versus punitive, but in either case I don't see it as a good thing for private corps to have financial incentive to wish for more prisoners.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  17. This is BS by SwashbucklingCowboy · · Score: 1

    I hope someone files a lawsuit and wins. Florida state government is a continual disgrace under Rick Scott.

    1. Re:This is BS by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      I hope someone files a lawsuit and wins. Florida state government is a continual disgrace under Rick Scott.

      I don't know anything about Florida's government, but this sounds like a case tailor-made for a class action lawsuit. The fact that the Dept. of Corrections made money off of the song sales makes it a slam dunk, regardless of what unenforceable language was in the original user/inmate agreement. I don't think they can arbitrarily cancel previously purchased licenses like this, in favor of some new for-profit scheme. I hope someone pursues this, and I hope they win, because the concept and existence of incarceration as an industry is evil, inhumane, and morally reprehensible, not to mention counterproductive for society.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  18. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've had the misfortune of experiencing the system and left it a few years ago. Torture is an inevitable part of it. There is no way that I can communicate to you the damaging effects of years of isolation from society, from human contact, and from information. After about 3 years in prison, even if I could have gotten a decent job back after getting out, I could not have recovered from the effects of the isolation and constant threat of violence even though I managed to avoid being beat up at any point. The PTSD that resulted has lessened now, but will always be there.

    Occupying a place in society requires skills that don't get practiced in prison. Some of them are even physical. It took years after getting out for my brain to readjust to being able to process the visual and auditory complexity of shopping in a WalMart without suffering a severe panic attack. Years of absolute uniformity in my environment had atrophied my brain's ability to process my environment. After four years, I have regained a functional level of processing, but it is far below the environmental awareness that I had before. I know that I am not as safe a driver and I still get a bit of brain fog due to overload when facing large crowds.

    The system could work to minimize this, but they actually work to maximize it. No matter the feelings of those voting for the system, the people who actually choose to work in prisons are usually there with the belief that those in prison are worthless, should never get out, and that their families are better off if they cut all ties.

    The result is that visitation has plummeted over the last few decades. Decades ago, people understood that prisoners needed community contact. In the case of the medium security facility I'm familiar with, vocation programs in prison actually went into communities and performed charity work. The prison ball teams often played on community leagues. When prisoners got out, they often had a place to go to. Today, the community interaction has been stopped and prisoners from that institution are often dropped off at the steps of the courthouse they were convicted at with a couple hundred dollars they managed to save while in prison working at less than $1 an hour and a single set of clothes on their backs.

    On top of that, yeh, families routinely pay as much as $1 a minute to talk to their loved ones over the phone. The menus of the food in prison are never followed. If a recipe calls for 180 pounds of meat to make the volume required, the cook will typically be handed 50 pounds instead. The items in commissary are routinely over priced. A $0.10 pouch of Ramen noodles sells for $0.50 to inmates who make $25 / month as janitors. Guards will let people steal what little you've acquired if you ever complain. Book donations to the library by the public were stopped years ago. Medical care is often too risky to use. Teeth are routinely pulled instead of filled. Pulling teeth involves simply smashing the tooth with a hammer and chisel and pulling out the pieces. Tylenol is what you get for the pain afterwards. And on and on.

    I could go on forever, but I doubt I could get anyone to understand who hasn't been through it. I am a lucky one who had a family that never abandoned me. I survive. I will never again be able to be the productive member of society I was, nobody will give me a chance to actually return to real engineering, even at the bottom, and even though I would gladly work for less than twice minimum wage. Liability insurance doesn't usually allow it. But, I at least survive.

  19. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why not just torture one random inmate a week.

    Stop using the toilet. Go poop in the corner like a beast.

    that is already happening.

  20. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Screw that! It's not a college dorm room. It's a prison!
    "Oh, but their rights"...screw that too! Make prisons a place YOU DO NOT want to be,
    more like the 60's movie "Cool Hand Luke" and maybe they will think twice about breaking
    the law!

    Do you want them to re-offend when they get out or become productive law-abiding citizens? Then treat them fairly, harshly if need be, but fairly. That teaches them that being a productive member of a functioning society pays off.

    But being arbitrary and capricious just tells them that the rules don't matter, only power. So when they get out they'll go back to breaking the law because you've failed to show them why the law is just.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  21. Re:It's prison, not a spa by mi · · Score: 1

    if I have my house burglarized

    Burglarized by whom?..

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  22. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Screw that! It's not a college dorm room. It's a prison! "Oh, but their rights"...screw that too! Make prisons a place YOU DO NOT want to be, more like the 60's movie "Cool Hand Luke" and maybe they will think twice about breaking the law!

    Now that Republicans are going to prison in record numbers, I assume you'll soon be advocating for prison reform.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  23. Messate to the Unites States by Knuckles · · Score: 2

    Your prison system is fucked. If anyone reads TFS and does not see how broken and inhuman this is, then you are as well. Bye

    --
    "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  24. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Why not just torture one random inmate a week.

    Stop using the toilet. Go poop in the corner like a beast.

    If it's good enough for the White House, it's good enough for prison.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  25. There is no legally supported reason by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we make the laws. We decide what is legal. When you say that you're just leaning on the authority granted by the word "legal".

    As for psychology, in children yes. Because their ability to reason isn't fully developed. But if you're dealing with an entity who's reasoning ability isn't developed then punishing them is obviously morally wrong because they're not in full control of their actions. OTOH if you're dealing with a being who's reasoning ability _is_ fully developed (or very nearly, since the brain develops into you're mid 20s) then there are much, much more effective ways to prevent that entity from doing "bad things". That is what is meant by rehabilitation. And that's before we start talking about prevention. Remember, it's always cheaper to drop food than bombs.

    Punishment has two reasons to exist. First, some folks just like people to suffer. And not for the reasons you're thinking. Animals have an innate understanding of 'fairness'. Most people suffer some for their mistakes. When people give into their animal brain and stop reasoning they want others to suffer for their mistakes. I saw this first hand with a buddy of mine who's LGBTQ. She was upset that the young'uns didn't have to suffer like she did (she was bullied by her teachers in addition to students. Pretty f'd up actually).

    As for the second reason, well, punishment is _cheap_. In a society with limited resources we can't afford to lock up the crazies and give them decent food and Playstations. Instead you make chain gains and forced labor camps and feed them the worst food possible. Well, economically we're past that. We could solve these problems anytime we want. Right now we don't.

    Oh, and at least for murder fear of consequences doesn't factor into that. It's been shown repeatedly that the death penalty is worse than a non-deterrent. It actively encourages people to kill as they've got nothing left to lose and you might as well get rid of the witnesses. Where I am there was a pizza joint robbed a few decades ago where the employees were shot execution style because the crooks were repeat offenders and they knew if they got caught they'd die in prison. That's what your deterrent gets you..

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  26. Re:Too bad by novakyu · · Score: 1

    You might find that the Constitution disagrees with you.

    Somebody should put the fear of God (literally, not just a turn of phrase) into everyone involved in this. They will all be judged for the people they oppressed when they meet their Maker (eventually, after suffering long and hard in their mortal coil).

  27. What country do you live in? by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm in America, and torture most definitely _is_ part of the plan. We use prisoners and overworked and underpaid guards to apply it so we can look the other way while it happens. Just google Prison Rape or look into the lives of prisoners who have mental illnesses (which is a lot of them, funny that how being mentally ill in a country w/o single payer healthcare can land you in jail a lot).

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:What country do you live in? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Canadian prisons are full of mentally ill people too. Single payer health care only goes so far and there is very little money for mental illness. While someone with a broken leg has an obvious problem, someone who was born to an alcoholic mother and has fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) looks healthy and is expected to be as fully functional as everyone else.
      Then there are all the people that want to torture the mentally ill to teach them a lesson or such, as if that is going to cure them, especially problems like FAS where there is no cure.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  28. Oh, one more thing by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    I'm not trying to bag on your entire post, just wanted to make sure folks understand that in America we absolutely do use prisons for torture.

    Also, I think making prisons nicer would be a good idea. I'm in favor of basic income anyway, so it's not like I don't think we can afford it. But think of it this way, you're dealing with somebody who's life is probably shit (there's not a lot of high dollar white collar guys in jail, even most of those guys are just passing bad checks). Imagine if you took somebody like that who's daily life is a living hell and gave them a respite for a few years instead of torture? Wouldn't that go a long way to rehabilitate? Of course you can't just abandon them when they're out like we do too...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Oh, one more thing by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      Prison should be a place to practice how to be happy doing good, not to be berated about being bad. Without a new experience, the same result will emerge as the first time around, only hardened.

      Far too much common sense.

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  29. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ah, America - where torture is not having your own mp3 device.

  30. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Or that the system is rigged against them and that their illegal activities are justified as a means to "right" the wrongs done to them. No doubt prison shouldn't be a club med, but it does need to be a humane and fair environment lest those put into it come out the other end more hardened and adept in crime than when they went in.

  31. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Statistically speaking? Probably the police via civil forfeiture.

  32. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You realize it's JPay who is monetizing crime here, right?

  33. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't forget, most of them are in prison for crimes white folk get a slap on the wrist for.

    Prison is about teaching and keeping minorities in their place. Not justice, security or peace.

  34. Re:It's prison, not a spa by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tough tittie.

    Then they get out, apply the lesson learned and say the same thing to you when they clean out your house. Sound good?

    Who pays for their hotel stay?

    The people who want them to stay there. You can always kick them out if you aren't satisfied with the arrangement.

  35. Re: It's prison, not a spa by alvinrod · · Score: 1
    Well since it's the department of corrections, these would all be state run (i.e., non-private) prisons. My guess is that the government gets a cut for all of these sales. They probably got a cut of the previous device and music sales as well, but now someone has offered them a better cut. It would appear that the linked news article bears this assumption out:

    The Department of Corrections, meanwhile, has collected $1.4 million in commissions on each song downloaded and other related sales since July 2011.

  36. Vegas update! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Caesar's Entertainment issued a statement today that they have entered into an agreement with national provider Phuq-Yew to bring additional entertainment to guests at their award winning results. Under the agreement, Caesar's Entertainment "security" will forcibly enter guest rooms, steal electronic equipment, search through luggage, and attempt access to guest computers in rooms.

    "This will enhance our guest experience and bring it to a whole new level. For the convenience and safety of our guests, we will now be offering select, pre-approved content from digital content provider Phuq-Yew and will be providing new stores in the Forum to help guests buy massively overpriced and substandard replacements for their confiscated equipment."

    Shareholders of Caesar's Entertainment (CZR) reacted positively to the statement with many anticipating that illegal forced entry and theft on a grand scale would likely bolster the group's bottom line. Caesar's Entertainment also stated that, in many cases, guests may recover their stolen items on eBay auctions.

    In other news, gun stores in and around Clark County, Nevada have reported a record surge in sales following the announcement.

  37. Florida's prison system ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... like all the other state prison systems, is responsible for the fucked up legal mess that provides corporate slaves.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  38. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Junta · · Score: 1

    The provider of the electronics/music is however a private corp.

    It just shows that even state run prisons are subject to questionable initiatives by private corporations.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  39. 10 seconds proves otherwise by raymorris · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Indisputable fact, eh? JPay ARE assholes, no doubt about that. We've they have these contracts with almost every state:

    https://www.jpay.com/Pavail.as...

    You'll notice the areas they do NOT have these contacts are places like Utah, Arkansas, and Alabama - mostly very Republican states.

    1. Re:10 seconds proves otherwise by Aighearach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Looking at that map, it seems instead that some poor states don't have it, and some states with very very low population don't have it. I certainly wouldn't think that Alabama and Arkansas are "very Republican," but that Texas, Idaho, and Mississippi are not.

  40. Re: Too bad by novakyu · · Score: 1

    If your position is that we should ignore the laws, well, why have prisons at all?

  41. Most of those inmates are pot users by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and other non-violent drug offenders. Legalize all drugs, treat the hard stuff as a medical condition and bam, problem solved. I live in America, and our Prisons are a money-making operation. You can't make money housing thieves, rapists and murderers with no hope while torturing them. You need a ton of non-violent guys who didn't belong in there in the first place and who are just trying to quietly "do their time".

    Again, if we'd switch from a punishment based system to a rehab based one those problems go away. But then so do the profits...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  42. Re:It's prison, not a spa by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

    What about victimless crimes like drug use, where there is no victim.

  43. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    kenh quoted TFS thusly:

    As a compromise, prison officials offered to download the already-purchased music to a CD, and then mail that CD to someone outside the prison. For a $25 fee.

    Then he reacted to it this way:

    Is Apple as accommodating when you chose to quit using iTunes?

    Will your local cable company burn your 'legally purchased' movies to DVD when you switch to Sattelite TV?

    First, Apple is not a cable company. Likewise, cable TV companies, however much they might like to pretend otherwise, are not tech companies, and they are only now beginning to get into content streaming, as their customers become sophisticated enough to realize that "tiered" TV service bundles are simply a pretext to sell them channels they don't and won't watch in order to get the ones they want - and abandon en masse both cable and satellite TV subscriptions in favor of streaming services that actually understand their market. Nor do cable TV companies sell music subscriptions. Two very different business models, two entirely different kinds of product, which you have conflated here.

    Having said that, I think it's fair to point out that switching away from Apple and iTunes doesn't mean you have to give up the music you purchased from it. In fact, Apple even offers a tutorial on how convert your iTunes library to MP3s. So, your attempt to further conflate Apple's business model with that of Jpay has no basis in fact. (Full disclosure here: I own an iPad 2 - which I use as an ereader when I'm on the toilet. Otherwise, I'm not at all an Apple customer, nor do I purchase any content whatever from iTunes.)

    Your complaint about cable TV companies is, likewise, ungrounded in reality. You do not - indeed, you cannot - "purchase" movies from them. You can, however, opt to pay a premium to watch "pay-per-view" movies in the short time between their theatrical run and their release in DVD/Blueray/digital-download formats - and via HBO and other streaming services. The name of that service should be more than enough clue to the fact that customers who choose that option are not, in any legal sense, purchasing the movies they watch, but instead are merely paying for the privilege of watching them on those services. Give up the services, and you give up the privilege. Likewise, once you watch your pay-per-view movie, if you wish to watch it again, you have the choice of waiting until it's available on the premium channels (which, again, you are paying a monthly fee to watch) or DVD/etc. formats for you to purchase, or paying the pay-per-view fee a second time to do so. Regardless, as long as you're watching them courtesy of a cable/satellite subscription, at no time do you ever actually own them. Period.

    Don't mistake this for a defense of Jpay's business model. s entirely based on sweetheart, monopoly deals with state prison systems to exploit a literally-captive audience that could hardly be more corrupt if they were openly run by the Mafia ...

    (Posting as AC only so as not to undo prior upmods in this thread.)

    --

    Check out my novel ...

  44. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 2

    Prison is already a place almost everybody doesn't want to be. Being in prision is the punishment.

    What things like this teach the prison population is that it's OK to take what belongs to others with impunity so long as you wield the power. Which is exactly what we're supposed to be presenting as the wrong option - you know - the thing that got most of them into prison in the first place.

  45. Re: It's prison, not a spa by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Is Apple as accommodating when you chose to quit using iTunes? Will your local cable company burn your 'legally purchased' movies to DVD when you switch to Sattelite TV?

    Whatever drugs you are taking to come up with those analogies, did you bring enough to share?

  46. It’s unconstitutional by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

    There can be no public taking without compensation. The prisoners paid for the players, and paid for .the digital rights. They can perhaps confiscate and store them, but not steal them from the prisoners. And the value, well the prison contracts set that. $100 for the player and $1.70 for each song purchased. The songs don’t depreciate. Bits are bits. The state legislature should get involved, as should the prisoner advocate organization. This is purely profit motivated move on the prisons part.

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

    1. Re:It’s unconstitutional by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They can't confiscate them because confiscation is for contraband. This is theft.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  47. Intentionally not permitted - so as to profit JPay by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

    Timothy Hoey, the assistant warden, did not deny the financial incentives at play in his response to Freeman, saying that it was "not feasible to download content from one vendor’s device to another, not only due to incompatibility reasons, but the download of content purchased from one vendor to another vendor’s device would negate the new vendor’s ability to be compensated for their services."

  48. I never said we should eliminate prison by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    I'm saying we should change it's purpose to remove the punishment aspect and be either completely rehabilitative or a place to store individuals who are broken in ways we don't yet know how to fix and who would be a danger to the community if let lose.

    We do not 'give up' on them. We rehabilitate every one we can. But I'm not so naive that I think we can reach a 100% rate. I'm saying a few criminally insane will exist. People who have demonstrated they are a danger to the community and who we lack the tools to rehabilitate. Those people need to be locked up, but at the same time it should be done humanely. We should recognize the fact that we're locking them up isn't a failure on their part, it's a failure on ours for being unable to fix what's broken in them.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  49. Haha by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    I forgot all about how that first Walmart trip was after I got out. I just stood there against the front wall staring at the shelves. I couldn't make out individual items, it was like there was static in my head. Completely overwhelmed. F'ing ridiculous.
    It's been two years, I'm good at stores now, though I still get a little freaked by crowds. I have a real problem dealing with change, now, too, and that sucks.
    I also have a super-hard time talking to women, but, hey, don't rob banks, right?

  50. Entrepreneurship by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 2

    Many, many inmates make plans to start businesses when they get out. Unfortunately, they mostly have very poor educational backgrounds and there is a ton of basic stuff they don't understand.

    I spent my entire sentence teaching anybody who was interested the basics of business. It ranged from the definition of "profit", to benefits of differentiation strategies vs cost leadership strategies.

    Heartbreaking, frustrating, and very fulfilling.

  51. Well... by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    Maybe if it was the right supervillain...

    1. Re:Well... by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Adrian Veidt?

  52. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    Nice

  53. Re: It's prison, not a spa by gweihir · · Score: 1

    You just stated that the US is a failed state. Are you sure that is what you want to say?

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  54. Fucking White People! by TheMiddleRoad · · Score: 1

    Seriously, Florida is the shithole of the world. A bunch of cracker ass morons voting for cracker ass morons to treat black people and other minorities like shit. Hey kids, wanna go to Disney World? Then I'm disowning your stupid asses. Go get eating by a fucking alligator. No wonder Trump loves that place so much. It must feel like how his brain works, like a steaming pile of shit mixed in with grinding gears and Yoko Ono music.

  55. There is a way to do this right by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    There is no excuse for this because there is a way to do it right. The state is not properly representing the prisoners in this negotiation and really has nothing to lose in doing so unless they are getting a kickback.

    If jpay wants the contract, they should be agreeable to a limited period of exchange of existing licenses for new licenses on their system. It's a reasonable cost of doing business. The state should just write that into the contract, along with making the contract long to help make the cost worthwhile, and be done with it. If jpay doesn't like it, someone else will.

    It is unlikely to be near as much music as claimed. Most of the devices have likely died by now (inmates don't get quality devices) and many if not most of those who purchased music are probably out of prison.

  56. Just a more direct form of DRM by Waccoon · · Score: 1

    This represents a more fundamental problem with society. We're getting used to the idea that intellectual property is licensed and sold as a service, and that license can be revoked at any time without legal consequence. Almost all digital products are "sold" under the EULA terms that you have a right to use it until you don't, and the license is perpetual until it's not. It's madness.

    The real issue here is not that prisoners are being treated unfairly. It's that, in most cases of licensed properly, it's perfectly legal for stuff like this to happen.

  57. Do as I say, not as I do by localman · · Score: 1

    It's important to teach prisoners that property rights are bullshit and that fraud is perfectly acceptable. Glad they're on top of that. There's nothing like making people work for something then taking it away to ensure they don't bother trying to do things right in the future.

    If our corrections/rehabilitation system can't follow the basic rules of ethics, why would they expect anyone else to?

  58. Re:Too bad by localman · · Score: 1

    If your goal is damaging them to be unsalvageable, ensuring they're more of a danger when released -- or perhaps keeping them locked up forever and thus costing far more in prison than they ever cost in crime -- then sure... your plan sound great.

    However to anyone that's not an ignorant idiot on the topic, your plan sounds shit.

  59. any one complaining about the mp3 get's a night in by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    any one complaining about the mp3 get's a night in the box

  60. Re:It's prison, not a spa by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    WHAT??!?! I thought you knew the Offender is the Victim in drug crime! So we have to lock them up doubly long!!

  61. Re: It's prison, not a spa by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    Well they were ripped off for an hour of work for 32c.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  62. The spectre of 13th Amendment keeps haunting us... by iwbcman · · Score: 1
    The 13th Amendment to the constitution states:

    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

    As one can see the the exact same sentence which outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, which are held to be interchangeable terms, legalizes slavery and involuntary servitude for those parties duly convicted- ie. prisoners of the state.

    The primary economic justification for slavery in modern times boils down to this: where labor is free, ie. unpaid for due to being forced involuntary servitude, the only capital cost involved in production cost is what is spent on raw resources, equipment and property, which translates directly to increased profit, and given free labor, slaves, a form of property, enable the purest form of producing profits, for none of the profits need be given back to pay for labor.

    With this economic rational, which is as valid today as it was when it was widely practiced, the economic exploitation of prisoners, by and for for-profit corporations is fundamentally pre-programmed.

    In essence this has said to capitalist, if you want free labor, find reasons to lock 'em up and wage campaigns to convince the public of this necessity and pass laws imprisoning those who violate the new laws. And remember the next best thing the free labor is dirt cheap labor and even if you don't end up capitalizing on the while their in prison, you'll get cheap labor out of them for the rest of their lives cause they will no longer be eligible for high paid employment, plus they won't be able to vote against the laws which made involuntary servants out of them.

    With the passage of the 13th Amendment the penitentiary system of the United States, which we had pioneered, which focused on redemption and rehabilitation, suffered a fatal blow, from which it has never recovered. Our once proud, enlightenment inspired, alternative to the brutal dungeons and prisons of yore, was systematically converted into slave factories, hence the real origin of the prison industrial complex, which now pervades American society.

    The apparent intentions behind the passage of the 13th Amendment, the ostensible ones, was the abolition of slavery. But there is something genuinely warped, codified in the text, about how they, that generation, went about abolishing slavery. It's almost as if they needed to concede to those slave holders, that slave holders were not morally bankrupt for desiring and having slaves, but rather that if they wished to continue having slaves they would have to come up with new ways of justifying/legitimizing it. So paradoxically it ends up giving the slave holders right in their aspiration to hold other human beings as slaves, just changing who the subjects of slavery would be.

    Sure human beings were no longer being bought and sold as property in broad day light on Market Str. in Louisiville, Ky, the largest open-air slave market in America in the lead-up to the civil war. And certainly the color of your skin was no longer the exclusive characteristic which defined whether you could be owned or not by another human being. But did we not take at least one solid step backwards in the two steps forward of the progress of human emancipation?

  63. Re:It's prison, not a spa by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Let's see, Bought star wars on VHS. Then Laser disk. Then they had an anniversary edition, then the one of DVD and now I can buy it again via netflix or something. Then we had casettes, MP3 players, CDs, etc.

    For the prisoners, I'm surprised they get anything. Especially a tablet. Maybe we don't have to worry about prisoners with tablets? What could go wrong? Sounds like a really bad idea to me. They can break the glass, etc. Unless maybe they have a tablet designed for a pre-schooler or something that you can't break (somehow).

  64. That's the best line I've read on /. by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    all year, "Practice how to be happy doing good".

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  65. Re: It's prison, not a spa by houghi · · Score: 1

    Is the government going to forcibly make me give up my current cable company?

    Well, sort of. How many others are there for you to select from?

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  66. Re: It's prison, not a spa by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    As a compromise, prison officials offered to download the already-purchased music to a CD, and then mail that CD to someone outside the prison. For a $25 fee.

    Is Apple as accommodating when you chose to quit using iTunes?

    Will your local cable company burn your 'legally purchased' movies to DVD when you switch to Sattelite TV?

    Will either of those forcibly stop their service to sign you up to a new you that you have to pay for all over again?

    --
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  67. Re:It's prison, not a spa by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    You don't even need to do time for that to happen in America today. The middle class is shrinking every year now. In another few decades a few thousand families will have 99% of the wealth in this country and the rest of us will be little more than modern day serfs.

    But that's what the people voted for.

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  68. Re:prisons? dorms? mp3 players by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    Why not just torture one random inmate a week.

    Stop using the toilet. Go poop in the corner like a beast.

    If it's good enough for the White House, it's good enough for prison.

    This whole presidency is a dirty protest. They will be hosing down the walls for months afterwards. America may never recover.

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..