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The Man Behind the EU's Copyright Law is 'Surprised' By What's in the Proposal (qz.com)

Hours after the European Union Parliament voted to approve new controversial copyright laws that will transform how people in Europe and beyond use and profit from the internet, the man behind the legislation, Axel Voss, says he is unaware of what exactly he voted for. From a report: Emanuel Karlsten, a reporter for Sweden's Breakit news site, spoke with Voss, a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) and the EU's copyright rapporteur, after the vote. Karlsten asked about a last-minute amendment that will bar the filming of sports events. The MEP replied in a recorded conversation, "This was kind of mistake I think by the JURI committee. Someone amended this. No one had been aware of this." European Parliament press officer John Schranz at that point broke in to explain that he was aware of the provision in question, calling it "amendment 76." Schranz said that the amendment doesn't bar individuals from filming sporting events. Rather, "the main target" is online betting companies enticing viewers to their sites with video that they have no right to film. He objected to the fact that the "Greens and others" interpret the provision as having a much wider application.

But the MEP Voss admitted, "I didn't know that this was in the proposal so far, so of course I have to deal with it now. I do not consider that the commission and council will have this inside the proposal." Voss added that "because of the time pressure" and general focus on other, more notable aspects of the law, it's possible that the measure was insufficiently scrutinized.

117 comments

  1. Sloppy job is OK by scsirob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So what he's actually saying is that it's fine to trade speed of a meeting for total destruction of the free Internet.
    Thank you for once again showing the world what a pile of steaming bovine excrement the EU really is.

    --
    To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    1. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think the timing pressure was related to a single meeting. See, I didn't quote your post, or didn't make a link to it. I'm hereby fully EU copyright proposal compliant!

      Maybe the parliament members need a blockchained amendment display showing all changes to the last minute and an semantic expert system of sort to open up the possible interpretations, effects and implications of the proposals constantly for all citizens during the preparation work.

    2. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      You have to pass it to see what is in it.

    3. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe the parliament members need a blockchained amendment display showing all changes to the last minute

      Uhm, no.

      It is typical for programmers and engineers to think of technical solutions to all problems.
      "When all you have is a hammer..." and all that.

      The solution is to make it illegal to make last minute changes to legal texts.

      If you found issues and want to retract it so that it can be modified then it is all fine. Improvements should be welcome.
      If you on the other hand tries to push it through quickly make sure that people who have been elected to represent the people don't have the time to read through it and consider what the changes mean then what you are doing has not moral high ground compared to other attacks on democracy.

      Something like that should have a punishment that matches other attacks on the democratic system.
      Start to throw people who tries to sneak laws through with a couple of years in jail and it will stop.

    4. Re:Sloppy job is OK by rastos1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thank you for once again showing the world what a pile of steaming bovine excrement the EU really is.

      If you think that (for the sake of argument let' say a "significant part" of) the members of the parliament/senate/population/... reads and understands the legislation they vote on, you are delusional. That's true for EU, USA or any other large body claiming to be a modern democracy.

    5. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      If you think t[...] the members of the parliament/senate/population/... reads and understands the legislation they vote on, you are delusional. That's true for EU, USA or any other large body claiming to be a modern democracy.

      That's one of the best arguments against both governments containing legislatures and those conducting popular referenda that I have ever seen.

      The Anarchist Anti-defamation League, monarchists, theocrats, and dictators of the world all take a break from fighting each other send their thanks.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    6. Re:Sloppy job is OK by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "We have to pass it to find out what's in it...."

      hmm....now where have I heard that before....?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re: Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, remember Jar Jar in episode 3? Sometimes you need a useful idiot to perpetrate big evil.

      This guy is a useful idiot. And the EU is evil and must be broken up.

    8. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Legislators rarely write legislation anymore, instead they get pre-approved proposal legislation directly from lobbyists.
      It's amazingly unlikely that the MEPs felt that there was a problem on the internet that needed these particular "fixes" on their own. Occam's Razor says it's more likely that the big content and IP owners wanted a change and started handing out money.

    9. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I've listened to commentary of the people who were in the chamber when it was accepted, and apparently the pressure on the MPs was utterly insane. Mass media outlets all but openely threatened to skewer those who were expected to vote for it and would vote against in the upcoming elections.

    10. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Europacare

    11. Re:Sloppy job is OK by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 2

      I've listened to commentary of the people who were in the chamber when it was accepted, and apparently the pressure on the MPs was utterly insane. Mass media outlets all but openely threatened to skewer those who were expected to vote for it and would vote against in the upcoming elections.

      Any particularly enlightening source you'd like to share?

    12. Re:Sloppy job is OK by jpaine619 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Uh... The USA is not a democracy and has never been one.. Please stop calling it one. The USA is a Democratic Republic... (yes, there is a big difference)

    13. Re:Sloppy job is OK by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      1. That's whataboutism that does nothing to refute the premise. 2. I have been endlessly lectured about how the EU is BETTER than all those other governments. Now you're saying it's the same but far less democratic? You're arguing against yourself...and losing.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    14. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, one is a subset of the other.

      Saying that USA isn't a democracy is like saying -1 isn't a number.

      However, there is a specific party in the US that has pushed the whole "is a republic, not a democracy" to make extra stupid people vote for them.

    15. Re:Sloppy job is OK by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Thank you for once again showing the world what a pile of steaming bovine excrement legislators around the world really are.

      FTFY. If you think that there is any legislative assembly in the entire world where everyone actually reads the things they vote on then I have a government to sell you.

    16. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know the old saying: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting over what's for dinner."

    17. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US ain't better. Money quote from a senator before the vote for some trade treaty that I won't mention here:

      "We have to vote for the bill to find out what's in it!"

      Same principles of secrecy, obfuscation and pretend urgency at work.

    18. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all the other forms of government is one wolf having 2 sheep for dinner.

    19. Re:Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait?! Why?! Nt even MEPs RTFA?!

    20. Re:Sloppy job is OK by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The meaning of democracy has changed in the last few centuries to mean representative democracy usually and, yes the USA is a representative democracy where you vote for Representatives, Senators and members of the electoral collage.
      Now an true example of a Democratic Republic is N. Korea, where there is one man with the one vote.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    21. Re:Sloppy job is OK by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      No it hasn't.. If it had, then how the hell would we describe a state like California where citizens can directly pass laws bypassing the state legislature? Mind you, i'm not in favor of this system, but it is a democracy.

    22. Re: Sloppy job is OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A republic is an armed sheep and 2 wolves debating about dinner.

    23. Re:Sloppy job is OK by dryeo · · Score: 1

      To quote myself,

      to mean representative democracy usually

      Note the use of the word "usually". I call my country a democracy even though referendums are rare though it is more accurate to call it a representative constitutional parliamentary democracy.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    24. Re:Sloppy job is OK by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      I concede that this is the case.. But it's still "wrong". When we start using the same word for multiple meanings... We lose our ability to be precise and concise..

      I do my bit and refer to the majority of western nations as Democratic Republics, which they are.

      Calling modern Democratic Republics "Democracies" dilutes/distorts the meaning of an actual Democracy.

    25. Re:Sloppy job is OK by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It's called "direct democracy".

      And the other thing is "representative democracy".

      But both are still "democracy".

    26. Re:Sloppy job is OK by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Lots of words are used for multiple meanings and lots of words change meanings over the years. Check out the entomology of "nice", https://www.etymonline.com/sea... and gay no longer means a female prostitute or even happy.
      Many Western nations are actually Democratic Monarchies. Republic, Head of State is a President or such. Monarchy, head of State is a King or such is how I was taught in school. Here the Queen (actually her Representative) is basically a rubber stamp though in theory she has a lot of power and is above the law, as She is the law.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  2. Order 66 by Zorro · · Score: 2

    "I didn't know about Order 66 when I voted for it!"

    1. Re:Order 66 by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Funny

      "I thought I was just going to get some fries, not extermination of the Jedi order! Who even has that on the menu!"

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:Order 66 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "You have to vote for it to see what's in it." --Rat-faced politicians

    3. Re:Order 66 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get my kicks on route six six.

  3. A different view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I voted âremainâ(TM) in the Brexit referendum. I emailed MEPs about this proposal, and how harmful it could be. The only reply I received was from Farageâ(TM)s office: they said they would vote against. Nobody else apparently cared.

    Perhaps I need to re-think my position.

    1. Re:A different view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either that or put your pinky in your butt.

    2. Re: A different view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You voting Remain shows you're ignorant of European politics. Had you even paid a bit of attention this crap from the EU wouldn't be a surprise at all.

    3. Re:A different view by F.Ultra · · Score: 2

      Before you rethink your position you should check how your British MP:s voted on these two articles. Chances are high that this proposal are supported by the British government as well which means that they would apply this EU or no EU. The problem here is not EU but that copyright lobby groups have been successful in convincing European politicians from all countries that this law is needed and that all opposition is simply paid Google and Facebook shills.

    4. Re:A different view by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even the UK government has attempted to modernise copyright law to an extent, to make it somewhat more realistic and proportionate in light of modern technology. For example, in 2014 a private copying exception was introduced that legalised actions like format-shifting where someone had a legally obtained, permanent copy of a work and the copy was only made for their own private use.

      The EU, in contrast, has been very consistently pro-big-copyright for a long time. When that UK private copying exception was struck down by a High Court judge in 2015, it was largely on the basis of failure to comply with EU law requiring fair compensation to rightsholders should a member state introduce such an exception without also demonstrating that any harm was minimal.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    5. Re: A different view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they, didn't. You just made that up.

    6. Re:A different view by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Looking into that particular matter and it seams that the High Court judge actually decided to not make a reference to CJEU since the High Court ruled that "the exception had been introduced unlawfully". https://www.twobirds.com/en/ne....

      However regardless of if this particular law was shut down due to EU or not there is nothing that guarantees that such an exception would be possible after a full Brexit. Or that the copyright holders does not lobby full time against the British Government as well.

      My stance on the matter is that this is not a EU or no-EU thing but something that must be fought (the copyright lobby) on every front both local and globally.

    7. Re:A different view by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      But the reasoning behind that ruling (the whole de minimis thing) derived from EU rules, which said that any exception to be introduced by a national government should be balanced by compensation to rightsholders unless it was shown that no significant harm was done. The government at the time did take that position, but because they didn't actually have hard data to support it, their opinion wasn't considered sufficient by the court, and they decided not to challenge the result.

      In other words, Big Media managed to overturn a law made by a democratically elected government, largely on the basis that the government hadn't actively proved that it wasn't harming Big Media. Whether or not any hypothetical harm to Big Media would have been justified anyway and whether or not the old laws were hopelessly outdated and no longer fit for purpose were not major factors in the decision.

      I don't disagree with you about the need to handle lobbying and so on, but this very clearly was an EU thing.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    8. Re:A different view by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Still, which was the starting point behind this whole thread, will Brexit somehow fix copyright in the UK. I don't say that everything with EU smells like roses but I would not be surprised if that particular law wouldn't have been turned down anyway with regards to some trade agreement that requires compensation to rightsholders. Tape tax was one such thing that didn't need EU to get a wide hold in all the western countries for example.

  4. Maybe the law was just a language Axel by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    just didn't speak.

    I understand that some "politicians" are not very smart. It's not like there were open public discussions of the implications of law for months on many different web sites /s.

    1. Re:Maybe the law was just a language Axel by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Politicians probably aren't spending most of their reading time on websites, but rather going through thick reports, proposals, notes from committee meetings on a subject, etc. Reading material of which there is a *LOT*. In that situation it's easy to overlook some important detail(s), or misunderstand the implications of some of what's on the table.

      That said, it's a poor excuse imho. If you don't understand what you're voting for, then vote against, abstain, or decide with your colleagues you need more time to go through the material. You're stuck with it for a couple of weeks or months, but if it results in a bad law, then the population may be stuck with it for many years. So do your homework!

    2. Re:Maybe the law was just a language Axel by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      Actually politicians spend most of their time fundraising for their next election. As for reading, they have aides (and lobbyists) who do that for them.

    3. Re:Maybe the law was just a language Axel by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Isn't that mostly an American thing?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  5. *vomit* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *vomit*

  6. interpret the provision by arbiter1 · · Score: 1

    Yea you can claim all you want what its ment to do but reality is its what it can be interpreted to allow you to do. The way its written is the problem as depends on how you want to read it.

    1. Re:interpret the provision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whenever someone says something like that, just ask them what is to stop the opposing party from doing just that should they take majority control? Never frame your question in terms of what they might do with the power, but what their opponent might do with it. It might not change the mind of the politician, but it might cause some voters to sit up and take notice. "Wait, you mean the other guy might get those powers??"

  7. Re: They don't come any dumber than Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget stupid South Americans, stupid Africans, stupid Asians, stupid Australians, stupid fuckin Californians and asshole Wyomingans. Wyomingites. Whatever those fuckin stupid assholes from Wyoming are called.

  8. Not true by DogDude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "total destruction of the free Internet."

    That's simply not true. Stop lying.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will be left with a lame internet without any of the fun bits.

    2. Re:Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internet in name only!

    3. Re:Not true by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      That's simply not true. Stop lying.

      Under the new regulations posting a meme(i.e. transformative work), is considered "criminal infringement."

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:Not true by DogDude · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with the "destruction of the free Internet"?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    5. Re:Not true by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with the "destruction of the free Internet"?

      Well how is the internet free, when you're sanction for having wrong-think opinions, and using images to create memes. I'll be clear, this entire thing stretches far beyond memes. Read the entirety of the text itself, it's been linked several times. It's like the STASI magically came back from the dead, giggled happily and started singing hymns to the USSR.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  9. Definition of incompetent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is basically the definition of incompetent. This guys votes on a law that he hasn't 'had time to read'. What a clown. There could have been anything in there. There should be constitutional limits on law making that include 'no unrelated riders', 'a minimum of X months between the last amended publicised change and the bill being voted on', 'all law must be made available to the public during the same consideration period', etc. It should also be a

    This shit of secret laws on the books, last minute changes with all the 'unsavoury' bits added in at the last second, and lawmakers not even reading what they're voting on. It must go.

    1. Re: Definition of incompetent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worse, he is the one senior guy who lobbied the parliament

    2. Re:Definition of incompetent by Rhipf · · Score: 1

      One way to fix the problem is to make it a policy that all bills have to be read out loud in the assembly before they are voted on. It would not only remove the excuse that they didn't know what was in the bill but it may also make the bills significantly less wordy. 8^)

    3. Re: Definition of incompetent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Downsizedc.org

      Read the bills act
      One subject at a time act
      Write the laws act.

      Its not like these haven't been presented to politicians in the united states before. Some even have co sponsors already.

      But they never make it to the floor.

      Wonder why.

  10. Insufficiently scrutinized? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is he fucking serious?
    This is a world class governing body passing laws that affect people literally all over the globe... and their excuse was "we didn't have time to sufficiently scrutinize these before voting for them."?

    This is... fucking insane to be light about it.

    --
    I tend to rant.
    1. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by avandesande · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Europeans are morons! I guess you have to pass it to read what's in it....

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really is not a "world class governing body " .... where did you get that crazy idea from?

      Many of them were not actually voted for, but awarded large salaries from party lists thanks to the voting system - salaries which are usually a reward for something or other (often nepotism, but most assuredly not intellect or competence)

    3. Re: Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think free thinking people in the UK voted to leave this c**pfest?

    4. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is he fucking serious?
      This is a world class governing body passing laws that affect people literally all over the globe... and their excuse was "we didn't have time to sufficiently scrutinize these before voting for them."?

      This is... fucking insane to be light about it.

      Mod parent up! Quite right, read the stuff you're the proponent of. If this happened in business heads would roll!

    5. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is he fucking serious? This is a world class governing body passing laws that affect people literally all over the globe... and their excuse was "we didn't have time to sufficiently scrutinize these before voting for them."? This is... fucking insane to be light about it.

      Isn't this standard practice for governing bodies? Rand Paul in the US recently complained about a 700 page spending bill, complained that neither he nor his colleagues were given time to read it. I've heard the same from the UK parliament.

    6. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      They didn't pass a law, they passed an amendment to proposal.

      This is a very long way from the end of the process.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      This is a world class governing body passing laws that affect people literally all over the globe

      Err....really?

      I don't see how this will effect myself or anyone else in the US....or any other country outside the EU...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, one way that this could affect you is that, while you and the people outside of the EU are able to upload something that we all can take part of (Supposedly). You would all be affected in the second-hand, since you won't be able to see the things that the people within the EU would have uploaded, if they were able to.

    9. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by budsetr · · Score: 1

      This is so Trump-worthy.

    10. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, this is how modern governments works. Lobbyists say use this, do that, and let me give you the quick summary so you don't have to read all the crap. Then critters vote on what they think something is and/or based on previous agreements to scratch each other's backs. It's how most societies work so you shouldn't be surprised when officials do it too. When was the last time you fully read an agreement you signed or fully researched an article before commenting on it? When I bought my house, they scheduled me 30 minutes to 'read' and sign about 70 pages. I was at the doctor's office yesterday and they couldn't even show me the document I was signing. They had a fixed computer display facing the inner office with a privacy filter on it so it couldn't be turned towards me nor could I view it from the side. Only the electronic signature pad was accessible to the patient. I had to sign, then they had to print it off for me to see it. They could have easily had me sign anything. I was the first person who had ever asked them to see what I was signing.

      Officials are generally a little worse than the general population, especially the higher up they go. Power corrupts and all that, and there are studies to prove it (not the prison study, that one was bullshit). I find it very odd that people somehow believe them to be better than most people. At the very least you should assume they have the exact same habits as you do. Do you read all the meeting minutes from work meetings you've skipped?

      Plus, reading bills is difficult. It can be like a code diff log. Strike out section 2 paragraph 4 and replace with "...". Simply reading a bill isn't good enough (at least in USA). They really need to modernize and track bills as code with version control. Every once in a while there's stories about some bit of text being inserted into a bill and no one knows where it came from. The bills also need documentation saying their intent. Lobbyist craft bills with very specific wording to create loopholes while reassuring anyone who manages to decode it by saying 'no, it's not intended for that. It'll never be used that way.' And the day after it's passed it's used exactly that way. Lobbyists craft bills? Didn't you know that? Just like companies publish press releases, they also publish pre-written laws for congress critters to slap their name on and put up for a vote. Isn't that super helpful, companies are great! And it's the congress critter's staff who go over everything recommending what to vote for rather than the elected official doing it. He's too busy making connections and there's too many laws being worked on for one person to read all of them.

    11. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make it any less disturbing.

      --
      'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
    12. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he's from the CDU, the German center right-wing party, so it's not very surprising that he has no clue about copyright and the Internet.

    13. Re: Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do realize you dont have to sign the electronic pad right? If you ask them, most medical offices have no problem handing you the paper form to read and sign. My wife works in a medical office with these signature pads and its never a problem saying no and getting a paper form. Ive never had any problem saying no at any of my doctors either.

    14. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We have to pass it to find out what's inside it!"

    15. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      And they're clearly showing their level of competency towards this process.

      --
      I tend to rant.
    16. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MEP members and reliable news sources such as the BBC and Guardian disagree with you. Why lie?

    17. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You mean the way that the U.S. Congress passed the ACA?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    18. Re: Insufficiently scrutinized? by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Just what I was thinking (but without the **). Brexit is looking better and better.

    19. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      AmiMoJo was correct. This was a significant step in the European Parliament, but that does not in itself result in a new law being enacted. The next stage is a "trilogue" between the three main branches of the EU administration, the Parliament, Council and Commission.

      The problem is partly that the Council and Commission are much less democratic than the Parliament and have form for pushing heavily pro-big-copyright agendas, but the good news is that there will still be at least one further chance for the Parliament to realise what is going on here and stop it later in the process.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    20. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Is he fucking serious?

      He's a legislator. They are widely known around the world to not read what they are voting on, not pay attention, and in some governments not even be in the parliamentary chambers to discuss legislation.

      Pick any legislation more than about 5 pages and you'll find a news article somewhere interviewing some senator or other legislator who doesn't understand the text even though they voted on it.

    21. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

      The same shit happens in the U.S. all the time: https://www.huffingtonpost.com...

    22. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who ever called them a world class governing body?

    23. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We have to pass it to find out what's inside it!"
      A bit like a turd then!

    24. Re: Insufficiently scrutinized? by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      Lucky you. I went to cancel a bank account (that I had from at a previous bank before a merger), and the system wouldn't even print the cancelation contract before I signed the pad. Sometimes it's not that the office won't show you the contract, it's that the software itself doesn't even consider it a possibility.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    25. Re:Insufficiently scrutinized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Faux news viewer. There was a year of hearings and meetings on the ACA. That is on top of years of senators and congressional staff and yes, lobbyists working on it. Then there was a FIVE year implementation time period to fix things. So shut the F up about things you have no idea about.

  11. EU full of morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They probably would have voted for Brexit too if you his it in an amendment.

    1. Re:EU full of morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes contrary to US who voted a cheetos into power.

  12. proof that "riders" are bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is further proof that riders are a bad thing and should be constitutionally forbidden in the US and in the EU.

  13. Europe and Beyond? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    voted to approve new controversial copyright laws that will transform how people in Europe and beyond use and profit from the internet,

    "and beyond" can safely be stricken from the article. How the European nations hobble their Internet access will likely not change how everyone outside the EU will use and profit from the Internet.

    I know that here in the U.S. I won't and don't give even a rat's ass about "obeying" EU laws.

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    This space unintentionally left blank.
    1. Re: Europe and Beyond? by rworne · · Score: 2

      "How the European nations hobble their Internet access will likely not change how everyone outside the EU will use and profit from the Internet."

      Oh it affects me. That stupid cookie bullshit is maddening, especially on mobile sites.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    2. Re: Europe and Beyond? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      We need a law that bans unwarranted cookie warnings. And those click-through TOU and EULAs.

  14. All hail the King by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least the King can know all his rights, like dropping the signature which means he is allowed to use an ink stamp instead of a pen on marriage certificates.

  15. Anarchy is hubris by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't trust my opponents with wiping their own nose, ass, or hands.

    That is a terrible way to run a society.

  16. Actual disgrace. No time for it? DONT VOTE IT IN. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, if you don't have time to read something either:

    a) Get out of the fucking job you're in and let someone more competent do it.

    b) Don't vote for the fucking thing you don't have a clue about.

    Why is this not obvious? There are *no* mitigating circumstances for voting for something you haven't fully read and understood.

  17. "We have to pass the bill so you can see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of another poorly-thought-out piece of legislation: "we have to pass the bill so you can see what's in it." And the PATRIOT Act before that, although that was more of a "please don't read the bill we just passed or you'll be outraged at the shit we just pulled on you."

  18. Re:Actual disgrace. No time for it? DONT VOTE IT I by budsetr · · Score: 1

    I would like to propose in a 650,000 page long referendum, law, statute, whatever, that the EU pay me 5000lbs of platinum. Sorry that will take to long to read, just pass it.

  19. That's a good admission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least one politician can admit they don't read or understand what laws they vote for.

  20. I hate Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too much fog. Too much rain. Too little sunshine. Too many muslims. Too many foreign languages. Thank God the UK is no longer part of Europe.

  21. This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by Chas · · Score: 3, Informative

    Basically the people running things are professional busybodies and buttinskies.

    They basically rubberstamp everything that comes through.
    None of them actually read what they're pushing. They have aides do that and tell them yes/no. And all the aides are essentially "bought".

    And the people actually making the decisions are unelected by the people and completely unaccoutable to ANYONE.

    So these people are primarily there because they LIKE dicking around in other people's lives...oh and the big paycheck...

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please explain how this is any different from every other governing body out there? Sure some may try to hide the level to which elected officials have been purchased, but this has been going on since even before the EU was formed.

    2. Re:This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by Chas · · Score: 0

      Because governments like the UK and US are at least (on some levels) elected by, and accountable to the people.

      If your MEPs or these various committee chairs are malfeasant, there's exactly FUCK-ALL you can do about it. You have ZERO redress.

      https://youtu.be/RbUGej05bLA

      Watch this video. It basically explains the structure of the EU baldly enough.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    3. Re:This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because governments like the UK and US are at least (on some levels) elected by, and accountable to the people.

      Thankyou, I needed a good laugh today.

    4. Re:This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by Jahta · · Score: 1

      Snip

      And the people actually making the decisions are unelected by the people and completely unaccoutable to ANYONE.

      Except that's not the case. Every MEP (Member of the European Parliament) is elected by the citizens of their home country; just like the members of any national parliament. MEPs are up for reelection in 2019 so if the people don't like how their MEP voted on this (or any other) issue they can vote him/her out of office and put another candidate in their place; just like any national parliament.

      The "How The EU Works" video you linked to (in this and other threads) is just a propaganda piece from UKIP; a group well known for using "alternative facts" to promote their ideological agenda. It's like posting a "How The US Government Works" that links to a clip from Fox News or (perhaps more accurately) Alex Jones InfoWars.

    5. Re:This is why the EU is useless & dangerous by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      Somebody please vote down this collection of unfounded flamebait.

  22. How the EU works. by Chas · · Score: 1
    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  23. new treblinka by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Won't be long before google is building gas chambers for the new Europe, after it tests them first in China.

  24. Just saying...for now. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    We don't need no stinking First Amendment! The people and their vote will keep those in power from slowly twisting censorship to their benefit!

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  25. If I was one of the MEPs I would do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whenever there was some piece of legislation I didn't like but I knew was going to pass I would just tack on insane crap like banning cellphones, requiring french people to be ejected from restaurants etc.

  26. Disingenous bollocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's not an idiot, of course he knows what the consequences are. He's being PAID for this shit

  27. Controlling the flow of information by Beeftopia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People who have a lot of power, people who own newspapers, politicians who rely on those people and other people at that level, are quite concerned about the Internet. The Internet is designed to facilitate the free flow of information. That means "curated" information, packaged with approved, "correct" messages (designed to make people more pliant and easier to govern) is harder to project onto the masses.

    Expect this sort of thing to continue. "Mistakes" that continuously occur in favor of the "curators" of correct thought are not mistakes. This is a constant, continuous push, and will never end until the Internet is fully curated as well.

    1. Re:Controlling the flow of information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember, Democracy only works if people vote for the correct choices. If a people vote for the wrong choice we in 'merica will send them an aid packages in the belly of a B-52. Now that's freedom to choose!

    2. Re:Controlling the flow of information by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      People who have a lot of power, people who own newspapers, politicians who rely on those people and other people at that level, are quite concerned about the Internet. The Internet is designed to facilitate the free flow of information. That means "curated" information, packaged with approved, "correct" messages (designed to make people more pliant and easier to govern) is harder to project onto the masses.

      Ahh, yes. And that's why they don't want Google to grab their curated information and give it away for free without doing anything themselves. I can see why you think that is evil - by why doesn't the formerly not evil company collect the "free" information themselves and just gives it to the public? I mean those evil newspapers can do it without relying on other evil newspapers, why can't Google?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  28. It is a USA practice, mainly by aberglas · · Score: 1

    To have pages stuffed into legislation minutes before a deadline to pass it.

    In civilized countries like Australia, UK, legislation is first "tabled" then often goes to committee for review, and finally debated an voted on. There is a process.

    The EU, however, appears to be crazy. We saw that with the software copyright saga.

    1. Re:It is a USA practice, mainly by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Even in "civilized" countries, they can push through a 500+ page omnibus bill by invoking closure while the opposition is still reading the final bill.

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      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism