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Linus Torvalds Reflects On How He's Been Hostile To Linux Community Members Over the Years, Issues Apology, and Announces He Will Be Taking Some Time Off (kernel.org)
On Sunday, Linus Torvalds spoke about the confusion he had regarding Maintainer's Summit, but more importantly, how this incident gave him a chance to realize "that I really had been ignoring some fairly deep-seated feelings in the community." In an email to the Linux Kernel Mailing List, Torvalds apologized for hurting people with his behavior over the years, and possibly driving some people "away from kernel development entirely." On that end, said Torvalds, "I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately." He wrote: [...] It's one thing when you can ignore these issues. Usually it's just something I didn't want to deal with. This is my reality. I am not an emotionally empathetic kind of person and that probably doesn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Least of all me. The fact that I then misread people and don't realize (for years) how badly I've judged a situation and contributed to an unprofessional environment is not good. This week people in our community confronted me about my lifetime of not understanding emotions. My flippant attacks in emails have been both unprofessional and uncalled for. Especially at times when I made it personal. In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to me. I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry.
The above is basically a long-winded way to get to the somewhat painful personal admission that hey, I need to change some of my behavior, and I want to apologize to the people that my personal behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development entirely.I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately.
Put another way: When asked at conferences, I occasionally talk about how the pain-points in kernel development have generally not been about the _technical_ issues, but about the inflection points where development flow and behavior changed. These pain points have been about managing the flow of patches, and often been associated with big tooling changes - moving from making releases with "patches and tar-balls" (and the _very_ painful discussions about how "Linus doesn't scale" back 15+ years ago) to using BitKeeper, and then to having to write git in order to get past the point of that no longer working for us. We haven't had that kind of pain-point in about a decade. But this week felt like that kind of pain point to me. To tie this all back to the actual 4.19-rc4 release (no, really, this_is_ related!) I actually think that 4.19 is looking fairly good, things have gotten to the "calm" period of the release cycle, and I've talked to Greg to ask him if he'd mind finishing up 4.19 for me, so that I can take a break, and try to at least fix my own behavior.
This is not some kind of "I'm burnt out, I need to just go away" break. I'm not feeling like I don't want to continue maintaining Linux. Quite the reverse. I very much *do* want to continue to do this project that I've been working on for almost three decades. This is more like the time I got out of kernel development for a while because I needed to write a little tool called "git". I need to take a break to get help on how to behave differently and fix some issues in my tooling and workflow.
And yes, some of it might be "just" tooling. Maybe I can get an email filter in place so at when I send email with curse-words, they just won't go out. Because hey, I'm a big believer in tools, and at least _some_ problems going forward might be improved with simple automation. [...]
The above is basically a long-winded way to get to the somewhat painful personal admission that hey, I need to change some of my behavior, and I want to apologize to the people that my personal behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development entirely.I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately.
Put another way: When asked at conferences, I occasionally talk about how the pain-points in kernel development have generally not been about the _technical_ issues, but about the inflection points where development flow and behavior changed. These pain points have been about managing the flow of patches, and often been associated with big tooling changes - moving from making releases with "patches and tar-balls" (and the _very_ painful discussions about how "Linus doesn't scale" back 15+ years ago) to using BitKeeper, and then to having to write git in order to get past the point of that no longer working for us. We haven't had that kind of pain-point in about a decade. But this week felt like that kind of pain point to me. To tie this all back to the actual 4.19-rc4 release (no, really, this_is_ related!) I actually think that 4.19 is looking fairly good, things have gotten to the "calm" period of the release cycle, and I've talked to Greg to ask him if he'd mind finishing up 4.19 for me, so that I can take a break, and try to at least fix my own behavior.
This is not some kind of "I'm burnt out, I need to just go away" break. I'm not feeling like I don't want to continue maintaining Linux. Quite the reverse. I very much *do* want to continue to do this project that I've been working on for almost three decades. This is more like the time I got out of kernel development for a while because I needed to write a little tool called "git". I need to take a break to get help on how to behave differently and fix some issues in my tooling and workflow.
And yes, some of it might be "just" tooling. Maybe I can get an email filter in place so at when I send email with curse-words, they just won't go out. Because hey, I'm a big believer in tools, and at least _some_ problems going forward might be improved with simple automation. [...]
It was a good run...
Any time someone decides to do something for self-improvement, it's a good thing. Good for you, Linus.
He turned me into a newt!
I got better...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Wow. Good job, Linus. Hope to see you come back with a much better attitude!
Even Linus eventually realizes that people respond better when you aren't a raging asshole. Too bad many Slashtards can't also come to the same realization.
Linux's success was about solid engineering and calling out folks who jeopardized that. SJW tender-asses need not apply.
It's ashame to see Linus soften his stance but I for one wish him the best of luck on his journey anyway. He'll always be a legend.
I thought April fools was, you know, in April
In all seriousness, if this is actually true, good on him. It takes a big person to admit being an asshole. Takes a bigger person to actually change. Time will tell I guess.
Heard in the background from Theo De Raadt
Part of me is going to miss the famous rants. The rest of me is glad he's getting help.
For all the brilliant jerks out there...
And yes, some of it might be "just" tooling. Maybe I can get an email filter in place so at when I send email with curse-words, they just won't go out. Because hey, I'm a big believer in tools, and at least _some_ problems going forward might be improved with simple automation.
It's heartening to hear that Linus is getting more self-aware. Another option he might consider is having someone else give his emails a quick review to ensure the tone aligns with his desired response. Sometimes the words in your head just don't sound the same when read by others.
I don't personally mind Linus being a bit abrasive (and let's be honest, it's lead to some pretty funny quotes over the years), but I think the overall approach is a good one and that Linux would not be as good as it is today if he let substandard code into the system. Hopefully he's able to keep the same tough stance on quality while being able to communicate it more effectively.
However, there are still some people that should just be told to straight up piss off however since dealing with their crap just isn't worth your time. They can always fork the project if they really want to do things their own way.
Nuh uh! This is horrible! How dare Linus give in to those "ebil SJWs"! If Linus stops being a raging asshole clearly everyone will just start writing shitty code and he'll be forced to merge it!
Does this mean that "git" may be renamed in the near future?
No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
but I think the overall approach is a good one and that Linux would not be as good as it is today if he let substandard code into the system. Hopefully he's able to keep the same tough stance on quality while being able to communicate it more effectively.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes? Constructive criticism and mentoring can be used just as well in place of being a dickish aspie.
There are people in the linux kernel development chain that should not be there.
Probably adding lots of stuff which seems meaningful and useful, yet has no real technical merit whatsoever and thus causing extra overhead which should not be there. Like a man in the middle attack, slowly tearing linux apart from the insides. Microsoft's planted trojan horse developers.
Yeseth!
The real news here isn't that Linus decided to get some therapy.
The real news is that Linux, the project, adopted the "Contributor's Covenant" code of conduct and thereby acknowledged SJW ideological supremacy. The CC is an SJW vehicle promulgated by Coraline Ada and a related group of activist malcontents. While the CC appears on the surface to be a call of civility, it's actually the tip of a very long and exsanguatory anti-meritocracy spear, one that ultimately seeks to elevate high-verbal-IQ non-technical politics-playing San-Francisco-residing cliques of social justice advocates into positions of recognition and authority in the free software world and beyond. If you write code and you're good at it, these people are a direct threat to your status, your hobby, and your livelihood, because if these people get their way, your technical excellence becomes secondary to their wokeness.
These people also admit, quite openly, that they use out-of-project CoC enforcement as a means to forbid FOSS contributors from supporting certain political positions. Check the HN thread. They're gleeful. They have a scalp and they're showing it to everyone.
This is a very curious move from Linus. He's previously been so adamantly anti-tone-policing, anti-SJW, and pro-meritocracy that I can't help but wonder if he is in fact being blackmailed or coerced in some fashion. Back in 2015, ESR reported that the tech-SJW community was attempting to frame Linux in some fashion. My personal hunch is that Linus got complacent about operational security and eventually got caught in an SJW trap. I don't fault him. If you or I were put in a position of swearing fealty to Coraline Ada or being forced by a Twitter mob into giving up maintainership of a project that we'd worked our whole lifetime to force into existence, we might also choose to drop to our knees, kiss the ring, and get woke.
Of course it won't work, since blackmailers are never contented. But in the heat of the moment, it doesn't feel that way.
This is a very sad day.
Who would have thought he wasn't the overly emotional touchy feely type?
Being that way is OK. It is time that the touchy feely types stop trying to force those that aren't into what they think we should be. It is the same problem as extroverts vs introverts where introverts often find extrovert behavior out right offense but won't say anything about it.
Maybe the group that has the longest list of accomplishments can tell the other group they are wrong.
He'll be apologising after each email now.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes? Constructive criticism and mentoring can be used just as well in place of being a dickish aspie.
One person with high standards is another person's "dickish aspie."
One person's constructive criticism is another's micro-aggression, sexism, racism, or whatever negative-label du jour used as a club. Projects aren't forced to take in substandard code but some projects have experienced severe losses by trying your approach and giving an inch. Take firefox as an example.
You can be certain he won't sacrifice code quality. That is his top priority, and you can tell because he talks about interpersonal issues in terms of how it affects the kernel code quality.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Introspection and self improvement are not actually curse words, or things that make you weaker.
Being self-aware actually makes you stronger and more effective as you can emphasize your strengths and minimize the impact of weaknesses.
And for those that fail to understand, that does NOT mean that sub-standard work must suddenly be allowed.
It means telling people who submit substandard work that what the sent in is not good enough and must be improved. Optionally suggestions can be made on what to improve or who to seek for aid.
As opposed to telling those same people that the code they sent it sucks because they are mentally retarded and simply a bad person. *
*Note that this is paraphrased and not meant to reflect any specific, actual comments made by Linus.
And the above does not apply to Lennart-Pottering because he IS a moron and a bad person as well as writing horrible programs.
It seems to odd that Linus would do this out of the blue. Perhaps a formal complaint has been filed against him somewhere and he's trying to get ahead of the story. This is complete speculation on my part btw.
Sometimes when someone who shouldn't screw up does so with blatant disregard for the priorities of the project, it's useful to flame them to remind other people NOT to do the same thing.
One example is from about six years ago when Linus reminded everyone very crisply that one doesn't change userspace APIs willy nilly and then blame the applications that were broken by the change. I'm pretty sure that his response reinforced in many developers' minds that this was simply unacceptable and reminded them far more effectively than an unemotional purely technical observation would have.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Email and text is always harsh. It just comes off that way. Step back re-read what you write. Would you like it if someone talked to you like that? If the answer is no then you need to re-write it. If you feel it is a waste of your time. Well the other end you have just ruined their day and now they are not going to get anything done. Congrats on ending productivity for at least one person (probably more) that day.
You do not have to sacrifice quality. I have seen a few projects tear themselves apart because some self appointed ass decided to get their OCD on. Then berate everyone for not doing it 'their way'. Suddenly dead/forked project. He has got away with in the past. That is because of the circumstances in which he is in and how good he is. When I was younger would do the same thing. Snipe off some wicked nasty thing. Then everyone is pissed. But in person I would be totally different to them. Naturally they did not want to work with me. It takes a bit more time. But just edit your emails. Usually you will find that even though you are snapping off on them you have misunderstood what they were doing in the first place. You can then guide them to the right result anyway. If that does not work eventually you give them the 'thank you for your time you submissions will no longer be accepted we have tried to work with you but you refuse to work within our standards we do not have time to fix your issues at this time please go re-test and think about it some more'.
The best complements I get now is "your code is so easy to understand" and "you are so nice to get along with compared to the others" and "you always help us get the best results". Instead of, well... That is not to say I am a pushover. I can still snipe something off. That is my natural self.
Oh well, there's still OpenBSD
"This code is crap. Rejected."
"You're only saying this because I'm black / lesbian / trans / otherkin / [add any other victimhood club here]."
Thus the gatekeeped gets kicked out / shamed into compliance, and crap code gets added.
Here's a suggestion: don't expect to change a lifetime's lack of empathy overnight.
Because other people are assholes who will harass you constantly to incorporate their substandard code, which leaves you either the choice to either be an asshole back or accept their code? Or I guess you could try to get a restraining order filed and pretend like that'll help. Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of people aren't that bad.
But a select few actually work on coding projects like Linux and that sort of environment tends to weed out the people who aren't passionate to the point of being assholes. So, one tends to have to regularly deal with assholes who aren't really bad nominally but will act very badly when they feel slighted, don't get their way, etc.
One could argue that the head of a project breeds this, and to an extent that's true. Usually that works out, though, with the head of a project kicking out a lot of people and writing most the code, which just doesn't scale. Many coup attempts will be made, and being too soft increases the chance they may eventually succeed.
It is, after all, a voluntary thing to do to work on any project--even if you get paid. That's one reason why the whole "burnt out" aspect of it is a real risk, usually as a byproduct of the people you have to deal with and not the actual code itself. This may be a chief reason that CEOs tend to be sociopaths--it's the only way a lot of people can maintain their sanity if they just reject other people's emotional standards for things.
I'm a very experienced OS developer, and years ago a change in my life circumstances allowed me to finally have the time to donate a meaningful number of hours/month to Linux, especially in the kernel. I started educating myself about the code base and following discussions among the developers and quickly realized that Linus was just another version of the brilliant, driven, flaming asshole I'd worked with numerous times in my career and was sick to death of tolerating. It's one thing to do it when your job requires it, but when you're donating your time and expertise? Life's too short.
I hope he's sincere and I hope he can evolve into a kinder, gentler Linus. It would benefit Linux, all its users and developers, and him.
I wish him the best, but for now, I'm staying on the sidelines.
..a pending #metoo story
Wow, you're really confused about what "constructive criticism" means.
I agree with Linus, of course, but still it's funny/sad that the user code it broke was... pulseaudio.
For starters, a computer acts for more like a "dickish aspie" than Linus ever will.
Furthermore, actual aspies make good code testers, and often good programmers.
Also, a hostile environment may actually be preferable, because it keeps the lowest common denominator higher.
Finally, I have to say there's a bit of irony in you describing Linus in a way that denigrates the autistic, while Linus himself has not used criticism in such a bigoted way. By the very notions behind such community conduct standards, you need to take a break before he does.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Firefox got better in performance and security, but also got some absolutely STUPID changes:
- the "burger button" (at least it's still possible to restore the normal menu bar, but this shit should not exist outside of mobile systems)
- the url trimmer (that hides the http/https prefix - also fixable as an about:config option, but still a demented idea in the first place)
- the removal of the status bar
This 4.19 patch is awesome. Linus is self-aware. I accidentally compiled in the wrong video driver. Instead of xorg crashing and spewing filth at me for my idiocy, it kindly told me that the computer needed a break while it took some time to work out what is wrong. It's been a few hours but I'm pretty sure it's going to fix itself. I think version 4.20 is going to grow its own weed and sell it for me, bringing in a better income that a Bitcoin mining rig!
that even god needs therapy every now and then.
We all forgive you, Linus. Thanks for making our industry fun and interesting.
C is a major security problem going forward. Linus, any chance we could see your spin on it?
Unfortunately Firefox for Android is in a bad or very bad shape, Mozilla miss hundred of milions of potential users
So how many of you /. readers admit to being on the spectrum. Come on, at least half. So Linus is on the spectrum too.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
"I'm pretty burned out right now and I think I need to take a break because I've been losing some sleep and I'm being pretty edgy lately." ...Two hours later...
"Oh man I feel refreshed now that I came up with this awesome new app idea! I can't wait to get started!"
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes?
Because we've all worked at companies where substandard code is routine due to a culture of passive-aggressive nonsense.
It's very easy for people to get lazy and for code to just get worse and worse if people are not called out over letting standards slide.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Quick, make a copy of the kernel sources, we are going to see all kinds of SJW BS in the mainline now!
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
One example is from about six years ago when Linus reminded [lkml.org] everyone very crisply that one doesn't change userspace APIs willy nilly and then blame the applications that were broken by the change. I'm pretty sure that his response reinforced in many developers' minds that this was simply unacceptable and reminded them far more effectively than an unemotional purely technical observation would have.
IF anything, he should have worded that message more forcefully. It's that important.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Freddie Mercury never fixed his teeth because they thought it would negatively affect his singing. I'm not a kernel dev but I sure have used, and appreciate (including supporting them monetarily) their efforts over the years. I hope this doesn't dispel the magic.
Honestly, that's all we think about when we hear that term.
Somebody in an episode or movie of Monty Python saying it. Which is quite funny, if only for the sound of the word.
I never thought about how it could have bad associations for native speakers.
I think it takes a certain kind of person to manage such a project, Linus needs to be Linus, nothing needs to change in my eyes. What he says or does seems to get the results we all need and that is more important than people enjoying everything he says. We all get offended but we move on from it, Linux will continue with or without Linus telling some someone to shut the f**k up but it just how he is. I would hate him censored and calm
Maybe you should take a break and reflect as well. Mistreating people because you can, is never okay. If you cannot tell the difference between proper response and being a dick, you are basically where Linus was those years ago. I really do NOT hope that people treat you like a dick a lot more, and that when you complain, you get a response that you deserved it. Instead, I hope that you can be empathetic enough to know that it isn't okay, without being the object of ridicule.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes? Constructive criticism and mentoring can be used just as well in place of being a dickish aspie.
Because being asshole dickish aspies is the most some people will have in common with Linus. If he cleans up his act there will be no place for them to go to hide their shitty attitudes.
Many people are, but not me. To wit: Serena Williams' meltdown about penalties because of sexism, when she was playing against another woman, so sexism doesn't apply and men are more likely to be penalized doing the same thing.
It is not mistreating someone to call them out for a serious error. A high contrast response is sometimes necessary to get their (and other's) attention and to communicate the severity of the infraction. The example I gave wasn't just "because Linus can" - it was a relevant message communicated at a fairly appropriate volume. Myself, I wouldn't have sent the message quite that way but that doesn't mean it was wrong. Everyone on the project at that point was well aware of Linus' personality and bluntness and if they didn't want to deal with such feedback when they did something really stupid and doubled down on it, they should have found something else to do. Over my career I've run across a number of people I would refuse to work "for" even if it meant I had to quit to accomplish that.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
I am nice man, with HAPPY FEELINGS ... ALL OF THE TIME!
[Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. ... ... ... You don’t say!]
Someone wants him out so they can control the project themselves for the "greater good"
This isn't going to end well.
There's a balance. Too much of either flame or light-treading can lead to problems. The most difficult situations are where there is a mismatch of culture among individuals. i.e. where remarks that are not actually offensive are mistakenly taken as such due to poor wording and because people are expecting fire or where softening the language around a critical issue leads to it being not taken seriously by those expecting more fire.
As far as this case goes specifically, I have always had the impression that Linus was a little on the flame-y side but much in the same way that all drivers in San Francisco are jerks -- if you don't drive that way you're actually more likely to cause an accident because everyone is expecting it. But honestly I don't read enough lkml to know for sure. There is a line between flame and abuse, and if that gets crossed too often then there are problems.
But really.. You're fine. It's fine. We're fine. Thick skin and all. It's alright. You're doing what you do best, so is everyone else. We need you where you are. Hope you get back there soon!
Misery loves company...
Puhleez. What are the odds that the nerd of all nerds has trouble being empathetic? Linus is the Sheldon Cooper of kernel developers! Let's all give him a break, ignore his ill-conceived personal rants and just love him for what he gives to the world.
*** Don't be dull.***
(Cross posted from twitter here: https://twitter.com/gehrehmee/...)
Just read Linus' LKML email that he's taking some time off kernel development to "get some assistance on how to understand people’s emotions and respond appropriately".
Good on him. It's an example many of us in tech can learn.
I especially like how he compares this time off kernel development to his time he took off to go work on git. It's important to collaborate with your community, to be a *good person* -- but it's also important from a productivity and efficiency angle.
Investing energy into one's tooling, whether emotional awareness, social skills, communication, collaboration, verbal, written word, or tech/code mechanisms, is critical for anyone trying to be a balanced person that delivers the most they can at the things they care about.
Investing energy into one's tooling, whether emotional awareness, social skills, communication, collaboration, verbal, written word, or tech/code mechanisms, is critical for anyone trying to be a balanced person that delivers the most they can at the things they care about.
This kind of *investment* is all too easily and all too often looked down upon.
It should be celebrated. It should be taught (in post-secondary settings even!). It should be expected.
It should be normal.
"You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
Marketshare is the litmus for OSS success. Burning half the budget on women's outreach programs that provided negative value to the project sunk the whole ship.
Now the project is turning into a Chrome clone with a DNS MITM builtin because that outreach money was spent on trips, diversity management salaries, and an army of do-nothing UI/UX designers. They gutted their own core because women in coding was deemed more important than the code itself.
Good for Linus. Change at this point is always remarkable. On that... I have always wondered if Linus would pass a Turing Test?
Because we've all worked at companies where substandard code is routine due to a culture of passive-aggressive nonsense.
And for companies full of precious little snowflakes that melt down and cry at the slightest criticism. Code reviews are rubber-stamped without reading more frequently than FISA warrants just so you don't offend them by calling out issues in their work.
What, Finland?
Linus is the best. I like Linus. I think everybody should like Linus.
I would like to see credible evidence for any of these claims. Because in the reality I'm living in, none of that is true beyond Mozilla being involved with Outreachy, and experimenting with DNS over HTTP.
But then I don't expect reason from someone who writes amateur conspiracy theorist screeds like this, and clearly has no concept of the actual priorities of Mozilla's engineering or the work they've done to (vastly) improve their code quality over the past few years.
Here we have a salami-slicing operation to destroy opensource as a cohesive social system - a system that heretofore resisted attempts by the intelligence community as-well as the corporate world .
Open-source is finished.
As is linux.
The ship has been commandeered because white men are too stupid to resist text-book tactics. White men also always eventually give in. Morons.
They're all woman worshipers at their core.
Atleast sunni-Islam, with it's pro-marry-girl-children ideals (see: Bukari) is the future.
Sounds like the guy needs a little time for some self reflection. Personally I don't think that Linus owes us a thing. He is arguably one of the most, if not the most, important people in the history of computing. His contributions have been immense. Keep in mind that in the beginning he was doing all of this without any compensation at all.
He is in many ways the anti Bill Gates. Gates did what he did quite obviously for money and power. Torvalds more for just the love of it all. I'm happy to see that he has made a little money along the way. If anyone deserves it, it's him.
Torvalds started out managing code and slowly but surely got dragged into the business of managing people. This is something that he is clearly not cut out for and something I suspect he doesn't enjoy very much. But once a movement gets big enough it's sort of a necessary evil.
My hope is that during his time away he will think about maybe handing the "people" reins over to someone else so that he can concentrate on the code - something he is truly brilliant at and something he really loves.
The Linux kernel is quite mature now so I suspect he can take a few months off without any ill effects to the project. There are capable people in place that can guide the ship in his absence. Enjoy your time off Linus. You have surely earned it.
Look closer:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v4.19-rc4/Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/8a104f8b5867
Holy crap, it does sound like there's something creeping into the core kernel process here.
I think Linus has been a total dick in the past as well, and I think he could have made his arguments perfectly well with less flowery language. It did make me think twice about going into kernel contribution areas. However this is *not cool* and even hearing the name of Coraline Ada in this story makes me shudder (do your own research on this person, seriously). This sort of quiet addition to a project of a CoC is exactly the sort of thin edge of the wedge that gets projects hijacked.
People need to stand up and say they're strong enough to take being called names, if the technical reasons are justified. It ain't pretty but ultimately we want the code to work, right?
I fail to see how Firefox having some features you dislike or disagree with implies anything about their code of conduct, or that their overall talent pool is declining.
You're wrong. Linus Torvalds believes you are wrong, and he is not going to continue being wrong.
You have a point that systemd should be told to piss off. And I'm sure the new Linus will be able to tell deserving people, in his own way, to sod off.
If Linus thought it were a good approach he would not be seeking help.
Now go eat a cock you subhuman dick eating shit for brains idiot.
April 1st coming late this year?
It's not April 1st yet.
This is Linus figuring out something that's been obvious to outsiders for a long time: sometimes he can be kind of a dick. That's not 100% bad, and it certainly doesn't make him a bad person. And on the scale of dickishness, it's not like he's that far out on the tail end.
But now he sees it, and it's made him ask a really smart question: is this really how I want to be?
There's lots of dickish people who are basically good people who just can't grasp why people react negatively to being treated abrasively or disrespectfully. And to be fair there are a lot of unreasonably sensitive people out there, about as many as there are unreasonably dickish people. But when most people have a problem with you, for example if they have to treat your behavior as a special case, then problem isn't most people. It's you.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If code quality was his top priority, he wouldn't have released the clusterfuck that is the linux kernel.
"There's a balance. Too much of either flame or light-treading can lead to problems."
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Show me any peer reviewed, scientific study to back that claim.
I swear, some of the most hysterical people who believe in hokum and myths are computer science engineers who pull out this crap that negativity produces productivity.
As you get older these things don't just go away, they pile up. If you can fix something like this it is worth doing it.
love is just extroverted narcissism
"Because we've all worked at companies where substandard code is routine due to a culture of passive-aggressive nonsense."
BS, 100% BS. Show your proof.
Looks like the SJW pressure finally got Linus.
I mean, when a technical person starts writing apologies about himself being not confirming to SJWs feelings, so sorry for all the precious snowflakes he turned away from kernel development where they would undoubtedly contributed diversity values far exceeding any of the Florida bridges in impact. Yeah, another one bit the dust.
Because there is right and wrong, and the wrong should be punished, not cared for its precious feelings.
Otherwise you get your Derrrida text instead of a working kernel that runs on mission critical machines.
They finally got to him.
Far greater question is whether WE want Linus to be Linus as he was, doing the job he does.
And the answer is a resounding YES. I do not care for any hurt feelings of substandard coders. I care to have a working and reliable OS kernel. If it takes a projetc owner to be direct in his words, God bless him.
BS, 100% BS. Show your proof.
Ok, look over your most recent commits merged into master.
*zing*
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Basically, yes. If you admit the principle of "anyone's hurt feelings always matter " and of "never turning anyone however his abilities are from the kernel development" , the outcome is inevitable.
Diversity may be good for the famous Florida bridge builders, but not for Linux kernel. Too many in this world depend on Linux kernel.
It's Linus's life, and more to the point Linus's job, which I suspect he may understand better than we do.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Ok, I know we're all thinking it, so I'll go ahead and say it. THIS IS FINALLY IT! If Linus really changes, 2019 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop!! :-)
There's a Zen story which bears on this.
A farmer had a wife who was so tight-fisted she never let him spend any money, even money he needed to run the farm. So he told the Zen master his problem and the master told the farmer to bring his wife to him.
As soon as the wife walked in the door, the master shoved his fist right in front of her face. "What would you say if my hand was always stuck like THIS?" he demanded.
"I'd say you'd had a deformed hand," the wife said.
"And what would you say," the master continued, shoving his open palm in her face, "if my hand was always stuck like THIS?"
"I'd say you had a different kind of deformity."
"Well, then," the master said. "You seem to know everything you need to."
Now my natural disposition is to be accommodating, but over the years I have learned sometimes you have to be a total intransigent bastard. Being a bastard shouldn't be opening move, and being nice shouldn't be the only move you have. You need to adapt the needs of the circumstance.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I can already tell that you're the kind of person that drags the entire team down.
I don't know if Linus is getting in front of something or if he's truly seen "the error of his ways" but this sure seems like a re-calibration of behavior to fit the "new normal" of PC. Age can do that, sure. But one has to wonder if maybe we're reached the point in our society where the collective opinion of the moment is overpowering the individual. History shows that doesn't end well.
Once again, you are confusing high standards with negativity. That generally happens with people who are a lot less smart than they think they are.
But Linux is dying. Whatever is left is going to look like Poettering wants it to.
Thanks for trying Linus.
I don't mind Torvalds more considerate about people's feeling, but I want him to focus on job #1: improving and maintaining the Linux kernel, not making people feel better, This is the first step to SJW hell. Next he'll start to worry about gender inclusive comments, or phrases like "master and slave" being offensive to someone. Please stay away from feelings, politics, and anything else which is not relevant to kernel development.
Oh no. The snowflake SJW's have got to him. Game over.
I admire his painfully honest introspection, but I disagree that it will make Linux worse. Just because he stops cursing at people doesn't mean he will start accepting crap code. I can't imagine he would ever do that.
Good for Linux because he may now attract high quality engineers that have been put off by his harsh demeanor.
J
For starters, a computer acts for more like a "dickish aspie" than Linus ever will.
Wrong. A computer responds predictably and unemotionally. It will say "invalid command" not "that command was stupid"
So yes like a person who is particular (so some aspies) but not a person who is a "dickish" anything.
Furthermore, actual aspies make good code testers, and often good programmers.
No one said they (we) didn't. But if that same aspie can learn a few heuristics on how to deliver things in a more sensitive way, then they will become a BETTER tester or programmer. It is not an "either or" situation. I speak from experience here.
Also, a hostile environment may actually be preferable, because it keeps the lowest common denominator higher.
citation needed. It will leave the people who ignore what others have to say, it will leave those who have agendas, it will leave the "stupid and opinionated". It will drive away the people who value a sense of community, the people who don't want hate in their life. So it will drive away a lot of the talent. I would place money on hostile environments having a lower common denominator.
Finally, I have to say there's a bit of irony in you describing Linus in a way that denigrates the autistic, while Linus himself has not used criticism in such a bigoted way. By the very notions behind such community conduct standards, you need to take a break before he does.
Yay we agree! There is no place for personal attacks in any community group.
Your teeth are gnashing especially hard tonight. Give it a rest.
To be fair, I only watched about 1 show worth over a some bits of shows because I couldn't stand watching it.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
They've been undermining the very integrity of our communities and its sickening. Putting aside the good hard work of many for the sake of bringing on new people whom are largely producing technically inferior work is not something I want to see in my community. I'm not a fan of Linus at all. I think he's wrong to include proprietary software in the kernel, but this?? Come on. Grow a back-bone.
Giving into this crap does little other than undermine the projects I care about. I am not anti-women- but this software justice warrior non-sense puts manors above code and does nothing other than discriminate against those who value freedom of speech, free expression, and those desiring to write good code. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never heart me. You should have learned this in elementary school and this is exactly what they were talking about. I feel we need to stand up tell these people to fuck off already.
Yay we agree!
You guys work in teams, don't you? Good cop, bad cop.
The person who made the "conduct covenant" and also promotes an "anti-meritocracy" policy to open source projects as well. Apparently meritocracy leads to inequality and bad feelings so must be abolished. Of course xhe is comes from the Ruby community. It had to be Ruby or Javascript obviously.
Because it's more than that. the COC isn't just about not being an asshole regarding the kernel. You're not allowed to be an asshole anywhere period (read the COC they can claim you represent the project anywhere they want). You also aren't allowed to have the wrong politics or your ass is banned.
Disagreeing with someone is harassment. Calling a spade a spade is racism.
One example is from about six years ago when Linus reminded everyone very crisply that one doesn't change userspace APIs willy nilly and then blame the applications that were broken by the change.
You left out the sarcasm tag when you wrote "reminder" right? Because "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!" goes a bit beyond that, to say the least. It's a safe bet that this is specifically one of the posts that Linus apologized for today.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes?
Because I've watched it happen. When everyone knows daddy is going to scold you if you screw up, you try really hard not to screw up. Quality stays high.
The alternative is people know they won't get scolded, so they not only commit shit to start with, but then they want to debate how bad the shit stinks when there's push back. Then they throw a tantrum when the merge is denied. "I worked a whole hour on this. I spent my time and effort!" Before long, they've worn down the maintainers who get tired of their shit and leave for another project. The gates of hell open onto the project at this point. Shit begins to flood in and nobody can stop it.
This is especially bad on large projects like Linux. Everyone will push bullshit commits trying to get "Contributes to Linux Kernel" on their resume.
Linux is officially done. I'm already looking for an alternative.
It is not mistreating someone to call them out for a serious error... Myself, I wouldn't have sent the message quite that way but that doesn't mean it was wrong.
He said "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!" and a bunch of other toxic stuff that would have made the message stronger simply by being deleted. Yes, it was wrong. If you don't believe me then perhaps you can believe Linus.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes? Constructive criticism and mentoring can be used just as well in place of being a dickish aspie.
One person with high standards is another person's "dickish aspie."
I think being a dick makes it easier in some ways to keep high standards since it's easy to call out BS, but I've also seen projects fail because a senior person was being a dick and no one was willing to withstand the abuse of critiquing their decisions.
One person's constructive criticism is another's micro-aggression, sexism, racism, or whatever negative-label du jour used as a club. Projects aren't forced to take in substandard code but some projects have experienced severe losses by trying your approach and giving an inch. Take firefox as an example.
People start suspecting the *isms when the criticism is centred on the person and not the work because it makes people wonder whether the criticism is motivated by the work or by a bias against the person. And frankly, when you start criticizing the person you personalize the conflict and make it much more difficult to come to a clean resolution.
Treat the other person with respect and you can still take a firm line on code quality without being a dick.
I stole this Sig
Finally, we can have true inclusivity.
Now that we've addressed those dickish aspies.
If that was all there was to it, I'd be happy.
Sadly, I have to wonder about the reasons for this given that a Code of Conduct (Control) was implemented. Linus had resisted such nonsense for years. And he faced serious pressure before cracking, so I figure something was up.
Maybe someone from 30 years ago wrote a letter and then scrubbed their social media history, who knows?
It is good to hear how a true aspie thinks. Strengthens me in my resolve to not take your abusive bullshit any longer. Now don't whine about being neurally atypical, fuck you, you are an abusive, tyranical, emotionally void, worthless life- and energysucking human being. If you mofos want to call it autism, fine. I call it what it is.
Yes... this is the right tact.
Definitely try to watch if you're "being a jerk", but DO realise that the world has many over sensitive people too.
Also, examine and discuss if you can. I've had discussions with people, where they literally could not point to the issue. To why they we upset. I once had someone complain that "they worked hard" on something, and felt bad when told it wasn't usable.
Not *how* they were told, merely the fact that they were told...
Welp. Sorry, that's the way of it, and they should get over it.
...he comes back an even bigger asshole.
Love that guy.
It's very easy for people to get lazy and for code to just get worse and worse if people are not called out over letting standards slide.
True, but such calling out needs to be done in stages of escalation, starting diplomatically. What Linus has realised is that he hasn't helped matters by going straight to Defcon 1.
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No one said they (we) didn't. But if that same aspie can learn a few heuristics on how to deliver things in a more sensitive way, then they will become a BETTER tester or programmer.
The purpose of employment is making your employer money. The assumption being a nice pleasant person is always or even usually the most effective means to that end is way overrated and in many cases total BS.
But I guess you are any way :-)
People should be treated with the respect they deserve - and that goes both ways.
Submitters should take the time to have their code evaluated one level up. That is form a smaller community, where you can learn from others with little more experience.
The Nobel committee will not considered your first paper in high school...
Maybe this is a lot about tooling. The internet (as a tool) creates an accessibility that is very much one-to-one... and when some one stands out like Linus, it fast becomes a lot-to-one.
So my little advice... make small concentric circles... interact a lot more with the people in your inner circle and spend less time on the outer.
You act according to situations... and when you get stressed everything is reduced to simple âeverybody are idiotsâ(TM). Spend sometime to notice to differences in how people around you act, start being more aware that situations are different and allow your self to treat people differently.
Takes time, but worth it :-)
Enjoy, Linus!
Linus has contributed more to humanity than just about anybody could hope to. Anybody with a little education and two braincells to rub together knows this. This won't change a single iota because Linus chooses to work on his choice of words. This is not "OMG! SJW controlling Linux!", This is a seasoned professional attacking a problem he sees in a professional manner: "My social interactions need improvement, let's solve the effing problem!".
I do the very same and it always has brought me forward and improved outside perception of me as a seasoned professional (not Linuses league of course, but you get my point).
We are problem solvers. We solve problems. If we apply the strategies to our social life as well, there is no place we can't go. I'm a nerd like most here who'd rather know more things than be poplar. That didn't stop me from systematically training my social skills and double checking the results like with some mission critical code. The results are palpable and sometimes the source of great envy with my buddies. It sure nothing is going to stop Linus from doing the same. If anything his childish rants are most embarrassing to himself more than they are to us. If he'd only wait a night before sending them and force himself to reword them his communications would improve tenfold when he's angry.
I'm pretty sure he'll notice that in 10 days the latest. And then we'll continue to have awesome kernel work done.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The namby-pamby, PC correctness folks have finally got to even Linus.
Traditionally, The only option left in such situation is physical reprisals: IE: if group X ban Y, Y burns group X alive. A war ensues with ever escalating brutality and torture. This is the history of many nations.
Of-course, the white male is so weak that even when facing torture himself, he just submits (see: south african Afrikaners). So there is no possibility of him beginning such reprisals.
The white male is simply a worker drone. His purpose is to furnish sustenance and joy for his "white woman" (he is very proud of this). Apparently having a Code of Conduct brings joy to the white woman, thus now the white man's projects have such.
> But when most people have a problem with you, for example if they have to treat your behavior as a special case, then problem isn't most people. It's you.
Most people, are average. Some people, are not. Therein lies the 'special case' treatment. The fact, that you may have to admit, you are not a special case, does not negate the existence, of truly unique people.
Rather than getting pissy about the lack of decorum; consider the vast amount of patience required, to deal with people who can barely understand how to count; but insist that they are somehow qualified to opine on the value of counting.
Spoken, as a dick, to an ant. There's your "tone" for you.
Now I understand that as an ant, you are expected to 'conform'. My sympathies. But really, isn't it more about you unhappy about being an ant, than the dickish tone I'm taking explaining non-ant things to you?
Save your reply. I've heard it all over countless decades of dealing with the trivial, the insignificant, and the otherwise meaningless existence you lead.
You get dick, because thats what you deserve when you start whining. Be thankful, I've grown out of using a stick.
Some small relief for you. There you go.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes?
Because we've all worked at companies where substandard code is routine due to a culture of passive-aggressive nonsense.
It's very easy for people to get lazy and for code to just get worse and worse if people are not called out over letting standards slide.
Did the companies deliver substandard code because of passive-aggressive nonsense, or was it because they had hired a bunch of less talented engineers and managers who didn't know how to do it any better, while the original people left because now that the project was successful it wasn't interesting any longer?
Management doesn't ask you to "dumb down" your standards to make people feel better about themselves. They do it because they need those new features to keep the company rolling, so they hired a shit-ton of new people to work on them, and all they know how to measure is whether those new people are delivering code or not. If you explain why their change has problems and they don't understand you and agree, then being an asshole about it isn't going to help, and it certainly isn't going to magically deliver you back to a world where their dumbass feature isn't going to ship for principled reasons.
[Of course, if you're in the wrong, then being an asshole about it also isn't helpful.]
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And?
Autism aside, ableism is the real issue. Should an able individual reap the fruit of his work, to have control of his life, or it should rather be some SJW party committee ?
That was no aspie. That was an asshole. Never confuse the two.
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APK
GO the fuck AWAY!
(everybody!)
APK
GO the fuck AWAY!
APK
GO the fuck AWAY!
APK
GO the fuck AWAY!
When you worry about the community dynamics more than the code, things go downhill.
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
He was purged, obviously. Someone told him to step down "or else".
Fuck you.
So it will drive away a lot of the talent.
^^^ Cite source. That's just like your opinion, man.
Seriously, you are all up in your feels about community. It was far more fun when people just wanted to solve problems and write code and give zero fucks about other people's *feelings*.
That was the worst story, ever -- or you really suck at story telling.
Hmmm...I've always wondered how many maintainers have been paid over the years to sabotage the kernel. No way in hell the NSA or M$ haven't tried.
People need to be told to shut the fuck up when the have been dumb cunts and then start spewing bullshit tho :)
I hope Scott Adams follows his lead...
What's being suggested is not switching from openly hostile toxicity to passive-agressive toxicity. What's being suggested is to switch to respectful, open, clear communication devoid of personal attacks.
Its like we're living out invasion of the body snatchers irl. Frat boy after curmudgeon one by one who all their lives did the no nonsense act and had big swinging balls when bashing Christianity or forwarding a joke against republicans suddenly is a mewling kitten who doesn't think we should use gendered pronouns and believes strongly in quotas for Transhermaphrodite midgets. Even for nonpolitical good ideas you have a few mavericks. But here almost everybody in leadership is marching to the exact same tune and the few that don't, do not dare speak up and are converting like dominoes.
Except most people don't enjoy working in a culture of fear for very long. It's likely to drive away a lot of people who would otherwise contribute quality code.
...Says a freak.
Even the Pope is a damn homo now. Western civ has entered a decadent phase.
What happened, is someone else wants control of Linux, and Linus was told to bow or or end up dead.
Not really. There's a pretty clear dividing line.
"This code is bad for technical reasons X, Y, and Z. I'm not accepting this until this is fixed", is plain and simple.
"Also, you're a fucking moron and should have been retroactively aborted" -- now this is absolutely non-technical and unnecessary.
We can have the first and not the second with no problem whatsoever.
Have they released any of this improved code to the public? That would be a nice change. Wonder why they're keeping it secret.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
The problem with being nice is that you often need to lie or keep your opinion to yourself if you want to avoid hurting other people's feelings. That's not a good thing in technical matters. There are hard decisions to be made and developers need to know when they're wrong. It's not nice to be frank to people who are wrong, but if you're not, people who are wrong will drown out people who are right, because being wrong is easier than being right. Feelings will be hurt nevertheless and the quality of the work declines.
Now there'll be a hoard of PC patches to rename daemons and such shit.
I totally agree a big bunch of people just don't know when they have to stand down until they are told straight up. And in the aftermath, they usually complain about rudeness but they are the rude one.
I know that because I have to fight against myself every single day to not be the "nice guy", the one who everybody expects to do take on their responsibilities.
And? You are asking "and?". Are you. Fucking. Kidding. Me. How psychopathic do you allow yourself to become?
And about assholes and aspies being separate groups, sorry. I never ever met a nice (aspie). Abusive shits is what they are. Contrary to you I *have* feelings, in *addition* to whatever bullshit void you call a mental life. Since I started taking a stance against you assholes my professional life has improved by leaps and bounds. You only learn through suffering apparantly. For folks so absorbed by selfcongratulatory masturbation you are a pretty stupid bunch.
Also note previously to this there was the attitude "Look we should be dicks because Linus is and he must be right because the kernel is excellent! Linus Linus Linus". Now it's morphed into "We should be dicks and Linus is wrong".
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Why do people act like a project would be forced to take in substandard code just because the maintainers aren't allowed to be assholes? Constructive criticism and mentoring can be used just as well in place of being a dickish aspie.
The git merge-bot I use only rejects a pull request if a comment message fails the profanity filter. Otherwise it's auto-merged right into master.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Accusing others of being psychopathic while openly stating you only tolerate certain people because they are useful.
I've known others like you. You'll contradict yourself from one sentence to the next, and when called out, it doesn't even register because you've already rationalized it away.
And on the scale of dickishness, it's not like he's that far out on the tail end.
But now he sees it, and it's made him ask a really smart question: is this really how I want to be?
Everyone has to hit rock bottom before they do something about their assholiness. Pride comes before fall and perhaps Mr Torvalds saw that and decided that a bit of humility would be a prudent course of action.
If you humble yourself it doesn't matter if anyone else does.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
As far as I know Linus has only ever exploded at people who have ignored previous warnings/questions about their code or behaviour.
And basing your code of conduct off someone who is openly anti-meritocracy is a real red flag for any technical project. The old CoC was just fine; enforcement perhaps could have been better. Some people here are asking "Why do you think that he'll stop caring solid engineering just because he stops being an asshole", but the new CoC includes requirements that are not at all technical nor are even normal conduct in real life (who do you know who never uses sexual swear-words?) so, assuming that someone falls foul of these sort of fluffy-unicorn requirements the project may no longer have the option to accept the best solution because its author is not acceptable.
No one is suggesting that any project should accept unrelated abuse from one dev to another, even from Linux. But it must accept that actions which affect the project's quality will, if continued over time, eventually attract a strong response from the guy in charge. And, yeah, that might include swearing and telling you that you're not the centre of the universe and that you have become a problem. Dry your lamps and shape up.
The Linux kernel is a construction site where getting things wrong can literally kill someone someone down the line; everyone involved should be wearing metaphorical hard-hats.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Take back the kernel under your own trademark, Linus. People will follow you and contribute, like they did in the early days. You took the bull by the horns, when you developed git. Now it's time for you to take the bull by the horns once again. You don't need platforms that give you headaches. Put boundaries on the kernel. If there is a device about which you don't feel strongly, don't include it. You be the arbiter.
Even without knowing too much about Linus or the Kernel development community, I kind of think that I understand the guy and how difficult that working environment might be. If you mostly care about technical aspects and have built from scratch a so complex piece of software on which you take lots of pride, it has to be very difficult to deal with so many different people and interests. Nobody wants to hurt others and I am sure that this wasn't his intention, but you will always try to defend that about what you care. And I am sure that lots of people, attitudes and, more importantly, interests have systematically attempted to damage (perhaps, to improve from their perspective) this development and its original, technical-excellence-focused ideas. He might have made mistakes or chosen non-ideal means to accomplish his goals, but I am quite sure that, in general, I agree with him.
Most of people dream about doing something like Linux: your own work being so relevant for a so big number of people. I am also quite sure that Linus has been quite happy with his life/work. Despite all that, I cannot avoid seeing (from my very-far-away, comfortable place) here, in this apology but also in most of the past events who provoked it, what I think that is the worst nightmare for technically-focused-taking-pride-of-their-work people: being unable to do your work as you know, losing your independence, allowing external interests to arbitrarily condition about what you care the most. And it seems very hard. Well... I guess that having a whole life of success, a big impact in the world, lots of people supporting you, etc. do sound like a quite good compensation. But still I don't think that would want that for me.
Basically, I see all this as the usual evolution in today's society of doing something really good. Eventually and by assuming that you take all the steps to get to the highest point (building a big team, getting funding, being appealing to a big community), your work, your vision, your expectations will change beyond your control. That perspective is very unappealing to me. I am not saying that I wouldn't have loved to have built something like Linux, just that I would have never (at least, as per my current ideas) taken most of required initial steps to reach to such stage. It seems impossible to build something really big by sticking to certain principles/ideas, no matter how beneficial those might be for everyone involved. In the current money-, arbitrariness-, stupidity-driven society and when dealing with something big enough, the only ones who can do as they please for as long as they want, no matter how stupid their expectations might be, seem to be the ones in formal (= for the many, certainly not for everyone) power who rarely got there for their own merits.
Perhaps all the previous ideas aren't more that a self-denying resource helping me to be happy, but they certainly do their job. I certainly don't envy Linus and, even by assuming that he has been quite happy during most of his life, I wouldn't change places with him. I might be (kind of) poor, work a lot for a little recognition and even be still quite far away from accomplishing a big number of my main goals, but I am proud of what I do at each single step and do what I want in the way I want, in the sense of not tolerating external arbitrariness of any kind. For me, this has a very high value. In fact, I cannot think of anything more valuable than that, at least, at the professional level.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
Life cannot be the same without it being peppered with Linus's rants. Linus, just cut the bullshit and keep ranting, will ye?
I consider comments by Anonymous Cowards to be words of cowards.
Yeah, his life. he can surrender. Yield to the pressure. We the public cannot request him to be a hero forever. The world is against white able men he is. But it is sad when a hero loses and gets humiliated.
You see the contradiction in your words, don't you?
Problem: I'm managing a project bigger than what I could possibly achieve by myself.
Solution: Make other valuable people share my goals and work aligned to my vision to make it happen.
Now: you either brilliantly find the way from problem to solution or you don't.
Yes, by allowing the best to do what they enjoy doing in pursuing the goals of the project even if they are not socially apt. Outcasts make for great allies when you don't treat them like garbage. In that way no proper "community" needs to be created and maintained. No concern over political leanings need to be given. No huge chunks of time spent on making people feel good to get them on and stay on the project.
Rather brilliant way of solving the problem don't you think?
Linus should implement Linux From Scratch on several platforms, with minimal assistance from anybody else. This will help him to understand how unwieldy modern Linux has become.
Another observation that they're yin and yang: "king neckbeard" (1801738)'s username checks out, but "just another AC" (2679463)'s username doesn't. X^D
[sudo] password for a.coward:
Wrong! You cheating scum!
[sudo] password for a.coward:
My pet ferret can type better than you!
[sudo] password for a.coward:
It's only your word against mine.
You don't need to be emotional to be a dick.
Linus Torvalds needs marijuana. Now it's legal in the States. Take time.
Calling a whole group of people worthless... Sorry, it really doesn't make your argument convincing.
Maybe you should consider applying your standards to yourself first before becoming all enraged that others don't fulfill them.
Most people get mad at some point, and some people get VERY mad about bad code, for example. Not saying you should let anyone abuse you, but becoming abusive yourself is not exactly "taking the high road".
That is his top priority
It *was*. Now we can look forward to a slew of new maintainers being let in solely on them having the right combination of oppression points and not due to merit. We will have purple-haired CSS editors writing code that will be running in every datacenter in the world.
Sleep well.
Uh, how in all the world does sexism not apply just because the opponent is a women?!?
If e.g. cursing in men's tennis is just accepted but in women's tennis it is not, it's not unreasonable to consider it a case of sexism.
Also one of the penalties was for "coaching", and her trainer was a man, so it applies doubly there.
Show me on the Dilbert doll where he touched you...
Run his emails through a filter before they get sent to people, but have a 'pre-filter' stream online for the Lulz.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
One person with high standards is another person's "dickish aspie."
One person's constructive criticism is another's micro-aggression, sexism, racism, or whatever negative-label du jour used as a club.
Err no, not at all. Each of the things in your examples are exclusive from each other. You can be a dick or not, just like you can have high standards or not. Likewise with constructive criticisms.
The fact you even lump "constructive criticism" together with "racism" should be a trigger for you to have a good hard look in the mirror.
substandard code is routine due to a culture of passive-aggressive nonsense
There's no reason you need to accept substandard code due to a culture of being passive-aggressive. You can most definitely reject substandard code in a passive-aggressive way.
I think you worked at a place which suffers from substandard code due to a culture of accepting substandard code and you're just trying to apply a different label to it.
You bring extreme examples and then it's obvious.
But what about "your code is broken all over and I don't have the time to deal with something at this quality level"?
With some people it comes down to either you spending hours of your time teaching them the basics of coding, or telling them very clearly that they just aren't good enough and (almost) no amount of them fixing technical issues pointed out to them will result in acceptable code. And then it gets personal...
But I admit it can be put politely still, telling them they need to find a mentor or such. On the other hand, there's people where even a mentor is unlikely to help if they lack a grasp of logic. Being polite simply doesn't FEEL like it's polite but just wasting everyone's time instead...
The short of it: doing it the polite way regularly costs A LOT of time. It can seem quite questionable whether it is WORTH that time.
And there is the whole issue with team-building, it is easier to do, especially remotely, if you have a clear insiders and outsiders. Clearly has plenty of cons doing it this way, but it sure has its positive sides.
I am in particularly thinking about the joke of "have you seen him? He's a giant, you don't want to cross him". If that kind of thing becomes "threatening violence" team-building gets kind of hard.
While Linus is doing this, we need to look at getting rid of Poettering and his groupies.
It would be great if he could drive some people away there, well... at least one.
How do you recognize an extrovert Fin?
When he looks at your shoes, instead of his own.
Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
Brave Linux!
..a woman lurking in the background of this somewhere. He's getting in touch with his feelings. Unfortunately, the most aggressively creative males have not been historically.
E Proelio Veritas.
... when you don't pick a strong password.
One example is from about six years ago when Linus reminded everyone very crisply that one doesn't change userspace APIs willy nilly and then blame the applications that were broken by the change.
I agree, and if we read Mauro's response we see a person that tries to explain why they made a (wrong) choice, apologize for their mistake, and presumably move on with their life. No tears shed, no tantrum thrown, no touchy-feely-police called.
Some friendly banter (which I believe your link can be read as, too) is just the salt in our daily soup. As long as the person dishing out the compliments is willing to accept a same-level response I don't have a problem with it.
...usage predates Python (Monty) by some hundreds of years.
In popular culture, The Monkees released a song called "Randy Scouse Git" two years before the Flying Circus was first broadcast...
This sig left unintentionally blank.
The guy's been working from home for what, the past 15 years? I think your interpersonal skills with colleagues - whatever you call people on a mailing list - will surely suffer.
Now go eat a cock you subhuman dick eating shit for brains idiot.
I really hope you forgot that ironic tag there
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
It's going to be some corporate dystopian shit, isn't it?
Get off yo back prog-slut bitch. Suck SJW dick blojobbing gaffot snowflake.
I wonder how he will be tackling this, basically I don't believe people can change by following a few courses on anger mgmt or what have you.
You are what you are, and act accordingly. Unless there is some constant guidance and follow up for many many months or even years, you typically see no change in peoples behaviour (unless meds are involved, but Linus' case isn't of the nature that it requires meds).
Ofcourse, it could be his age, being at a point in his life where 'wisdom' starts to take over and your mind is calm(er), your tolerance levels rise, etc. Then again, that's just natural and not taught.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Because every person who has complained about this has by sheer coincidence had code rejected for being shit.
Linux is undisputably, the most important kernel in the world. It is no longer in *startup* phase, and now weirdly part of the establishment. It isn't cool for the establishment to be cruel.
SJW wins again
Pop quiz: who deserves respect?
Answer: everyone.
No, that would be dignity. Everybody starts with it and I can only be harmed by your own actions (i.e. by undignified behavior). Dignity is an unalienable human right.
With respect, it's the other way around: Nobody starts with it, it has to be earned and it depends on how other people view you and thus only indirectly depends on your own actions. You have no right for the respect of other people.
ignatius
But when most people have a problem with you, for example if they have to treat your behavior as a special case, then problem isn't most people. It's you.
Er, unless you are the "intellectual" and the "most people" are Chinese villagers during the cultural revolution ...
One person's constructive criticism is another's micro-aggression....
Seriously though, fuck whatever "micro-aggression" is. Smells like bubble wrap to me and it just makes me want to pop it.
I tend to rant.
Rule #6
What's wrong with my computers clock?
Reminder: Respect of ability != respect of basic dignity.
You don't have to respect someone's ability to respect them as a person.
>This is more like the time I got out of kernel development for a while because I needed to write a little tool called "git".
God help us.
Also, a hostile environment may actually be preferable, because it keeps the lowest common denominator higher.
, Perhaps, but it often does that by not only culling the bottom of the herd but by the really good ones leaving as well because they have options beyond putting up with such BS; often you wind up with the people who have no other choice.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
A fragment of
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/sho...
#25: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.
#26: May you marry a ghost, bear a kitten, and may the High King of Glory permit it to get the mange.
#27: May you be rained on at some point in your life.
Basically, fear keeps the locals in line.
Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.
And more codes of conduct.
And an end to the use of the word "abort" in code. WE ALL KNOW IT IS MURDER!
Haptic Linux will be more Touchy Feely. This will not be the year of Linux on the Despot.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The words "tor" and "valds" in norwegian transliterate to Tor = "threats or dare" and Vald = "uncountable many".
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Go fuck yourself with a cheese grater.
Why do you falsely presume that he'll stop caring solid engineering just because he stops being an assholish aspie? The two are not mutually exclusive in any shape. Instead of being a dick, he can provide constructive criticism and mentoring instead to motivate people to actually want to continue working on the kernel.
I guess you learn something new every day. In this article, I learned of the assholish term "aspie". Yeah, I had to look it up. So you are making your point about how Linus should stop being an asshole and provide constructive criticism, and you make this point by being an asshole yourself? Very nice. Perhaps you should take some of your own advice, asshole.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Linus is the biggest tool of them all.
Hopefully the SJW elements attempting to subvert and ruin the kernel project just as they did Red Hat and Gnome via Outreachy are identified and publically shamed so they aren't able to easily ruin any other projects in the future.
Registering a username on a website using nothing more than an e-mail account is not an act of bravery.
Ah, yes. The great Democratic tradition of "my way or execution". As practiced by the democratic movements of the modern West, in imitation of their pioneer, Robespierre.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
then we would have a few houndred overlords who want independence (Apple?Microsoft?Android?) creating their own ProtestLinux just so it suits them, so they can stop being compatible to the ~~Pope~~ original Linux.
That works only to those who follow logic. I have seen people who start an argument and when you point errors in the arguments and ask for more info they argue about something else only to later return those first arguments you already commented.
You either have to ignore them or be so impolite that they will shut up. Personally I would just want to fire them.
I think this is great. Doing the whole leader thing is quite difficult and it's worth spending time to learn how to do it better. With any luck this will also make it more socially acceptable for hardcore geeks to spend time honing their soft skills. It would certainly help with programming's reputation for being full of eccentric and prickly personalities - because there's certainly lots of good people out there. Getting them all to work together is the challenge. :-)
Right in the pussy!
He's recognized a problem and found a solution to fix it for the long term, and set about implementing it. What more can you ask for?
A bad manager blames his resources for poor results. A good manager finds ways to use flawed resources. A great manager finds ways to improve them. I've worked for all three types. It looks like Linus has decided to go from Type II to Type II. Good for him -- he's been a very good model already on how to handle the mechanics of producing quality software, but active cultivation is the next step up. Personal note: Linus' youngest is now 18 and I presume headed away from home. Funny how being the parent of adult children can change you (/me looks over shoulders ...)
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I used to read his blog but I stopped when it became apparent that he is a really unpleasant person. I don't know if he changed or I just started noticing.
"Aspie" doesn't imply "dickish." The difficulty we have in reading emotions, unless they are very well spelled out (and sometimes even then), can manifest in a much broader variety of ways. For instance, I certainly can be a jackass, but, much more often, I fall quite far on the opposite end: trying to delay conflict, even when it is inevitable and when delay is only going to make it worse. Sometimes I wish I could just tell off people - not in a purposefully rude way, but direct and clear and just as blunt as it needs to be, though not drastically more so. I generally can't. Usually because by the time I'm ready to do so, the situation has already escalated beyond the point where nothing short of full-blown "dickishness" is likely to achieve the hoped-for results. I've seen this same thing in others throughout my career as well. Some people whom we call "high-functioning" actually manage to get it right most of the time, because even though they may not understand other people's feelings much better than others near us on the Aspie spectrum, they've learned ways of dealing with "normals" that don't stray too far in either direction.
Nonaggression works!
I take him at his word on what his reasons are, and I hope it works out for him.
Goodbye linux. This is great news for some people in Redmond.
One person with high standards is another person's "dickish aspie."
Linus himself acknowledged that he was being a dick and needs to take steps to be more empathetic and less confrontational, yet you're arguing that he's wrong and he just has high standards?
I think someone's feeling a bit called out.
Say what I want you to say or else???? Who is practicing, "My way or else"? Curtailing freedom of speech is the first step towards tyranny. Tyranny, should and must be met with violence.
It's a technical term that the GP used because it's something they heard was a word "SJWs" use without any understanding. All it generally means is constant subtle or unsubtle reminders that you're out of place and don't belong in the group because of your skin color/genitalia/some other thing that has nothing to do with your ability. It wears people down, which is why groups concerned with sexism and racism, etc, bring it up occasionally.
It has no relevance (to the best of my knowledge) to this discussion, as Torvalds isn't being accused of "microaggressions", he's admitting that he can be an asshole from time to time. Whether you're a conservative, a liberal, a jackass with a KKK robe in the closet, or you've (gasp) publicly expressed disappointment at Kevin Spacey's behavior (the horror!), simple "being an ass" is usually frowned upon. If I went into a Republican meeting and started calling every idea I disagreed with "Fucking stupid" and "Retarded bullshit", I'd be kicked out, just as I would if I went to a meeting of Feminists Against Racist Transphobia.
But this is Slashdot, so people feel the need to bring "S(traw)JWs" into it. Why? I don't know. I think some people want to be assholes, and so they point at "SJWs" as the anti-assholes because they're the convenient "enemy" they think everyone on Slashdot hates, and hope that by saying "Yeah, but $PEOPLE_YOU_HATE hate assholes therefore assholedom is good."
It isn't. It really isn't. I'm ashamed when I act like an ass to anyone in RL (Slashdot doesn't count), and everyone else should be too.
I hope Torvalds can make things work, for his sake as much as anyone else's. I lost a lot of respect for him during the BitKeeper fiasco, but everyone can change, and everyone deserves a chance to change.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I think it has a lot to do with what your primary value is. Let me try and articulate it.
Let's establish from the start that there is an idealized leader. Someone who is technically brilliant, socially and emotionally strong, a mentor, assertive, strong, constructive...
The problem is that person is so rare. It is something we all aim for and good on Linus for trying to improve his social skills to reach this ideal.
But for all of us imperfect humans, the real question comes what do you do when push comes to shove in the day to day grind. Time is limited. Mental energy is limited. Emotional energy is limited. I think it is an absolutely legitimate worry to be concerned that Linus or anyone else for that matter will be able to maintain quality, while doing all the rest.
It's one of the reasons in most companies, there are a variety of jobs. When I first graduated from university, I didn't like being placed in a box 'developer/engineer'. I enjoyed talking to customer, gathering requirements, mentoring, leading.. little bits of everything.
The more I got into my career though, the more I realized I can't do everything. The more I realized the trade offs and skills that are lacking. The more I realized, the more I strengthen some areas, the weaker I get in others. Heck, I used to know C and C++ and Java so in depth, it was scary. I just don't know it that well anymore. I'm out of practice. The more I moved into management, the more I time and energy I spent just dealing with social games. The games of power are ridiculous in a corporation. I realized that is not for me. I now don't even look for technical skill in a manager. I realized, I am perfectly capable of communicating technical issues to a manager and they get it. What I can't do is play those games. I want someone there to offload that work. I literally walk up to my manager and tell him, this department/person is being difficult, go yell at them... and they go handle that.
I really do think it is a valid worry if Linus will be able to do both. Let's face it, if Linux was a normal company, senior technology people wouldn't be able to just say things in public. They'd have various PR and communication people as a buffer. Heck, even in a strictly technical role, if I really have a problem with the way someone is doing something and I can't just explain to them technically and they accept it, I go to my manager and explain. They handle that person part of dealing with the person.
Again, kudos to Linus for trying to improve his leadership skills. However, I don't think we can simply dismiss worries that the quality bar will not be moved. It's a very hard job to do everything. If he can do it, he'd be that one in a million leader.
As I've suggested before, maybe Linus' profanity is from stress resulting from fundamental monolithic Linux kernel design, where the growing complexity leading to risks of security issues and instability?
https://slashdot.org/comments....
https://linux.slashdot.org/com...
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I used to read his blog but I stopped when it became apparent that he is a really unpleasant person. I don't know if he changed or I just started noticing.
The more interesting question is whether he can change while he has so much validation. People cite him regularly. He must feel like an authority.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Linus will soon announce he's a transgender lesbian and he will apologise to Nvidia.
All because of some stupid tranny that codes in ruby. Disgusting piece of human existence.
That's an obviously ridiculous suggestion. It doesn't matter if you've got the complexity spread out across multiple modules or all in one executable, the only difference in terms of complexity is that if you split it up, there will be more complexity and not less.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Would have been more genuine if he just said, sorry for being a libertarian asshole, I'm taking a break for a few months. Promise to be back as a better person, better Linux.
That letter screams I want my 5min back.
cat --verbose
This is good news and it's rare for someone to acknowledge abusive behavior, much less do something concrete and productive about it. Linus Torvalds has recognized that (a) his bullying behavior has been counterproductive to collective work, that (b) his abuse has had real consequences for real people, driving some out of Linux development entirely, and (c) he's taking concrete steps to address his problems.
I read the new Code of Conduct for the Kernel Team.
What does anything sexual have to do with kernel development? I find it offensive.
The offensive paragraph:
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.
Why are all of these listed separately?
sex characteristics,
gender identity and
expression,
sexual identity and
orientation.
Put them into one statement - kernel devs know how to use minimal code to solve complex issues. This was clearly written by a non-kernel developer and Linus was bullied (threatened legally) into accepting it.
What does anything sexual have to do with kernel development? I find it offensive to bring up. All the people with imaginary friends can be much more offensive, but that could be a matter of perspective.
I laughed at the master/slave thing in python. Idiots. --- see that's perfectly allowed because someone's mental ability **is** ok to ridicule - it isn't in the list.
If the submitted code is crap, it is still crap regardless of your gender identity, or lack of any gender, right?
I don't need to see "thank god" or "praise Allah" either for kernel code stuff.
BTW, I quite enjoy being a slave every other Sunday night. Mistress isn't always harsh and I try to be a good slave. On the opposite Sundays, I get to be Master. Not my favorite, but life is about compromise. None of this has anything to do with my work on the Linux kernel.
s/Linus Torvalds/The deRaat/g for the perfect April Fools story?
I'm pretty nice. I stick my foot in my mouth on a regular basis, but I don't use my disability as an excuse for running roughshod over everyone I know. Over the decades, I've learned to understand feelings, whether I experience them directly or not.
Projects aren't forced to take in substandard code but some projects have experienced severe losses by trying your approach and giving an inch. Take firefox as an example.
What incident are you referring to specifically?
I can name at leas two really good Linux kernel developers that Linus's attitude pushed away. They made a lot of valuable contributions: Matthew Garrett and Sarah Sharp.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Except passive-aggressive behavior is present in any sufficiently large group, and the hostility may have been keeping it in check. That's not to say the hostility was a good solution to passive-aggressive bullshit, only that you can probably expect to see more of such bullshit when there is less enthusiasm on calling it out.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Basically, fear keeps the locals in line.
Maybe, maybe not. But clearly, the tighter the grip, the more star systems are slipping through his fingers (if the high-quality departures others have alluded to are representative).
In all seriousness, good for Linus. Self-examination, owning up to ones own flaws, and working to becoming a better person, can be one of the most difficult and painful things a person can do. Doubly so for those of us who aren't very emotionally mature (which probably includes most coders, and may be part of the reason we are drawn towards working with machines rather than other people). The amount of courage it took for Linus to acknowledge this (publicly no less!), much less do something about it, cannot be overstated. He is setting out on a difficult and very painful path, but one that will yield results (and rewards) that far outweigh what will feel like overwhelming pain in the short run.
Very few people have the courage to face their flaws, even fewer the honesty to acknowledge them, and still fewer the courage to pass through the gauntlet of examining how they've been a jerk, the hurt it's inflicted on others, and the internal changes and thoughtfulness required to fix those kinds of personal flaws. Linus has just gone up in my estimation a lot (and I already thought pretty highly of him).
No, just look at “black lives matter” supporting criminal behavior because of skin color. Or feminists raging on the movie “red pill” with out even knowing what it is, literally in physical protest, saying it’s hateful.
You are talking about how it should work, this CoC pusher doesn’t want meritocracy and actually wants to end meritocracy.
Like specifically.
http://postmeritocracy.org
Coraline Ada Ehmke
I’m all for freedom to be trannies etc. but don’t say good is bad because feelings.
You really can ride that “I’m a victim because minority” pony all the way to the top. It’s weird because I actually am an intersectional minority but this shot churns my stomach, these poor bastards will never make it to their full real potential getting caught up in trivial shit like this.
The best way to improve sub-standard code is to help the person producing it make it better. I find this to be extremely effective, far more so than being passive-aggressive or just aggressive.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
On the other hand we know for certain that Linus' abrasiveness has driven away a few good developers. So that doesn't seem to be any better.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yep, and if you got it to work it would have been a major pain in the ass if a kernel upgrade broke it.
This is an unpopular position these days, but never-the-less: Being Nice is usually good policy. Legislating Being Nice ("code of conduct rules") is usually not.
I used to read his blog but I stopped when it became apparent that he is a really unpleasant person.
What was really unpleasant about him? Could you cite some examples?
For example, he talked about how he generally interrupts other people because he can tell what they're going to say, what he has to say is more important, and he doesn't want to waste his time listening to them. He concluded that this was an appropriate and efficient means of interpersonal interaction, and ALSO claimed (not at the same time but without sarcasm) to be a good listener.
Over time, it became clear why he got divorced. I don't remember other examples; it's been years.
And yes, some of it might be "just" tooling. Maybe I can get an email filter in place so at when I send email with curse-words, they just won't go out.
Wait, I thought that only ancient prudes like me thought that using curse words was problematic. Now it is again?
That's the problem with getting "woke"; you never know what the rules are day to day ....
Last time I read anything from him, he saw absolutely nothing wrong with his behavior or attitudes, and they were working well for him. He certainly has enough money to get away with pretty much anything he wants to do. I would be surprised if he ever sees any need to change.
Honestly, I always thought of him as sentient.
We can always go back to a place where it was stable, and thankfully, unless GIT is gutted, we can find blame for those who polluted the code-base. I always go pale when annotate shows my name next to a line of code that is broken ;)
i am so very tired....
and the rejection is documented when reversed, or at least rejected code has an audit trail. Of course, that won't track those who refuse to contribute because they don't want to be part of the problem.
i am so very tired....
For example, he talked about how he generally interrupts other people because he can tell what they're going to say, what he has to say is more important, and he doesn't want to waste his time listening to them.
Presumably you're talking about this then?
"Women have made an issue of the fact that men talk over women in meetings. In my experience, that's true. But for full context, I interrupt anyone who talks too long without adding enough value. If most of my victims turn out to be women, I am still assumed to be the problem in this situation, not the talkers. The alternative interpretation of the situation -- that women are more verbal than men -- is never discussed as a contributing factor to interruptions. Can you imagine a situation where -- on average -- the people who talk the most do NOT get interrupted the most? I don't know if the amount of talking each person does is related to the amount of interrupting they experience, or if there is a gender difference to it, but it seems like a reasonable hypothesis. My point is that men are assumed guilty in this country. We don't even explore their alibis. (And watch the reaction to even bringing up the topic.)"
You misrepresented him.
But he should not change. He should continue to be the dipshit that he is because we all are better off with his fucktard attitude.
Linux will just be a fuck stain without him being a fuckwit about everything.
Fuck you
You're welcome.
Possibly, if I'm remembering right there was more too. But as I said it's been years, and I'm really not interested in getting into a ticky tack discussion about whether Scott Adams is or is not a jerk, if that's what you're trying to get started.
Empathy is very taxing for people without the natural ability. You can improve a bit, but as with every skill you don't really care about, it's pretty tiring to exercise it all the time.
Maybe it's time to go the Guido Van Rossum way and let the world crash and burn, Linus.
I wasn't looking for a ticky tack discussion. I was looking for substance to your claims. I'm satisfied that the one example you thought of was a big "meh" to me.
Haven't you heard? Serverless microservices are the way to go. Let's rewrite the kernel.
His job is much too stressful. The Linux kernel is too complicated for just one person to handle. Its time to have more than one person to handle the merges.
Because I've watched it happen. When everyone knows daddy is going to scold you if you screw up, you try really hard not to screw up. Quality stays high. The alternative is people know they won't get scolded, so they not only commit shit to start with, but then they want to debate how bad the shit stinks when there's push back. Then they throw a tantrum when the merge is denied. "I worked a whole hour on this. I spent my time and effort!" Before long, they've worn down the maintainers who get tired of their shit and leave for another project. The gates of hell open onto the project at this point. Shit begins to flood in and nobody can stop it.
This, so much this... every time you give an inch, it comes back to haunt you. At work we've been far too kind to fix other people's problems and special cases, we say it'll be just this once little tweak or hack or kludge that we'll remove as soon as they fix the problem. Except they never do because then it's "fixed" and we end up maintaining a shitload of spaghetti with tons of little gotchas. And eventually it circles back at us because we're crumbling under all the straws that are about to break the camel's back. I wish we had an asshole in charge that pushed back harder. The first time you should be polite. The second time you can be rude. The third time to shovel the same shit our way then I think chewing them out is the only way to make them stop.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Out-of-court settlement? Reads like one!
--C
Comment removed based on user account deletion
He sure as fuck won't criticize Intel ever again.
Someone sat Torvalds down.
If the CIA want's something in the kernel, it's getting in the fucking kernel.
Or maybe he wants to keep taking a stand for security. Maybe wind up like Julian Assange or Kim Dotcom.
Doesn't take long to devolve into:
"This code is bad for technical reasons which I wont explain, please leave because you are a Republican."
And worse:
"This code is great because you signed my petition at postmeritocracy.org. Down with merit!"
It already has in most SV companies.
He has a high-standard for himself, and others, and he calls it like he sees it. Now I think he is just realizing that HOW he calls it makes a difference.
Not only that, but his outbursts over the years as well as this message that he is going to seek improvement on that front, is made public by his own choosing.
Show me another leader who does that.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
It'll be years before the world realizes it, but today is the day Linux died. Looks like Linus has been pushed out by a gender confused SJW with bright red hair whose only coding accomplishments are in Ruby on Rails.
Betting his kids started asking him questions about his rants.
dickish aspie
All of the people I know with aspergers are eerily polite. Like so nice it's creepy. And it's genuine, just weird. Linus isn't an aspie. He's been acting more like a socially retarded baby-man for the last twenty years. Not unlike George Lucas. I'm glad that a lightbulb finally flickered or that someone convinced him of the importance of other-people's dignity, but if we're calling it like it is, Torvalds is responsible for his disregard of empathy.
I no longer use that term at my place of employment. It's insulting to at least half of the employees.
The problem is that the first one is racist, sexist, homophobic and purple - if the recipient is a special snowflake and decides to interpret it that way.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Nope.
By making development more welcoming and less arbitrarily hostile to potential contributors, SJW communists have DESTROYED what makes Linux great: meritocracy. /s
Looking forward to watching the forks wither on the vine while adults keep writing good code that is not hampered by petty political bigotries and arbitrary elevation of certain kinds of people.
So his daughter wrote a code of conduct, so of course he has to adopt it.
Disgusting.
Check this crap out: https://postmeritocracy.org
Ignoring half the argument and deflecting the other. Classic "I have no points but I'm angry."
Okay let's play the game:
Uh, how in all the world does sexism not apply just because the opponent is a women?!?
Fairness.
If e.g. cursing in men's tennis is just accepted but in women's tennis it is not, it's not unreasonable to consider it a case of sexism.
Both opponents are women, therefore if one was treated harshly because of their sex, the other would be also given they have the same sex.
Also one of the penalties was for "coaching", and her trainer was a man, so it applies doubly there.
If that's true, then no sexism was present and you agree with my point.
Serena claimed sexism when no sexism was there because she broke the rules and thought that magic word would get her more points than skill.
Yeah, but telling "This code is bad" again for the thousandth time (and even to the same person) can trigger the second part.
You do realize that Linus has on many occasions done the former (somethings changing "bad" to "stupid" and/or removing "until this is fixed" and AFAIK has never done the latter (or anything similar), and yet we're still having this discussion and arguing there's a problem?
sometimes he can be kind of a dick
I think the real issue is that he's too busy to take the time to rewrite those emails in a form that's so polite it's obnoxiously insulting in a way that's obvious to everybody ut at no point crosses any professional boundaries or could be quoted as demeaning or derogatory.
There's a joyful art to doing this, but it does take rather longer than being blunt with someone.
(It may also just be a British thing. My American colleagues would always marvel and forward such emails around in wonder)
dickish aspie
Lets see, sexualised language, trolling, insulting/derogatory comment and conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting.
Yeah, you're fucked now if you want to contribute to the Linux kernel.
I mean, shit, you're pissed at people being 'assholes' to computer program code but merrily disparaging people with a neurodevelopmental impairment. Which term would you use for your behaviour?
All of the people I know with aspergers are eerily polite
Hey fuckface, you can end that shit now.
He's been acting more like a socially retarded baby-man
He's been acting like a technically capable leader with occasional examples of losing his patience. You don't build and run a project the size of the Linux Kernel if you're "socially retarded".
I don't even know what the fuck a baby-man is. He wears nappies?
Torvalds is responsible for his disregard of empathy
Maybe he's just human after all.
Perhaps SJWs are another factor in the Drake equation?
I just don't see a way we can progress forward if we discard concept of merit. Hierarchies based on other concepts (e.g. piety, clan identity, wealth) historically were nothing short of disastrous. I don't see how hierarchy based on group identity that SJWs are building will be anything short of disastrous. Our technological civilization is truly fucked if they succeed and our descendants won't know how to maintain what we built even if they reach ideal equality and perfect diversity.
However, tone policing destroys brevity and conciseness for the sake of feelings.
They don't act that way. Tone policing and CoC are just powergrabs by the insecure who can't handle criticism. If the project leads capitulate to this, it's game over. It might take years to manifest, but it'll happen.
However, tone policing destroys brevity and conciseness for the sake of feelings.
Not necessarily. Cutting out personal attacks or demeaning language can yield a shorter message. And even if the occasional message increases in size to more precisely explain one's thoughts it may well be worth the effort and result in a better understanding of each other's concerns and goals.
Generally not because now feelings have to be coddled in addition to the technical explanation. These CoCs just blow the doors open on subjective interpretation on what is considered abusive language and what is not. They are not simple cases of banning ad hominem.
Sorry, I don't agree.
Nope. False dilemma. Not agreeing to social justice derived conduct codes is not the same thing as "being dicks."
He just got tired of people whining about his personality
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
It is pathetic that we've got a whole generation or two of supposed adults taking colorful metaphors so literally and personally (just like those aspies they love to demonize for lacking in social skills). As a general rule, reading/writing data one byte at a time IS fucking stupid.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6...
Regarding those who are ejected from the Linux Kernel Community after this CoC:
Contributors can, at any time, rescind the license grant regarding their property via written notice to those whom they are rescinding the grant from (regarding their property (code)).
The GPL version 2 lacks a no-rescission clause (the GPL version 3 has such a clause: to attempt furnish defendants with an estoppel defense, the Linux Kernel is licensed under version 2, however, as are the past contributions).
When the defendants ignore the rescission and continue using the plaintiff's code, the plaintiff can sue under the copyright statute.
Banned contributors _should_ do this (note: plaintiff is to register their copyright prior to filing suit, the copyright doe not have to be registered at the time of the violation however)
Additionally when said banned contributors joined the Linux team, they were under the impression that it was a meritocracy: in-fact this belief was stated or ratified by those within the governing body regarding Linux when the contributors began their work (whatever that body was at that time, it could have been simply Linus, or Linus and a few associates).
The remuneration for the work was implied to be, or perhaps stated, to be fame as-well as a potential increase in the contributors stature, in addition to membership in the Linux Kernel club or association, or whatever it is that the Linux Kernel Community actually is (which a court may determine... it is something, suffice to say).
Thusly for work, consideration was promised by (Linus? Others? There are years of mailing list archives with which to determine).
And now that consideration has been clawed-back and the contributors image has been tarnished.
Thus the worker did work, however the other side of the implied, or perhaps written (email memorandums), understanding has been violated (once the contributor has been banned under the new non-meritocratic "CoC").
Damages could be recovered under: Breach of Contract, quazi-contract, libel, false-light.
In addition to copyright claims.
For greatest effect, all rescission should be done at once in a bloc. (With other banned contributors).
Contributors: You were promised something, you laboured for that promise, and now the promise has become a lie. You have remedies available to you now, as-well as in the close future.
Additionally, regarding those who promoted the Code of Conduct to be used against the linux kernel contributors, knowing full well the effect it would have and desiring those effects; recovery for the ejected contributors via a tortious interference claim may be possible.
Up to you.
Normally FreeBSD would have been an option, but in this particular case it's no better.
A microkernel like MINIX 3 has about 10,000 lines of code. The Linux Kernel has about 20,000,000 lines of code. If you mainly focus on getting only 10,000 lines right, you will have a lot less stress than trying to herd cats on 20,000x more code.
Ideally, for a core kernel maintainer, drivers should be mainly someone else's responsibility (with a separate vetting process) and should be firewalled from any service they don't absolutely need access to. A monolithic kernel just provides too much surface area for mischief to hide (whether intentional or unintentional).
See the list of "reliability policies" here for MINIX (I just included the titles of each section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
* Reduce kernel size
* Cage the bugs
* Limit drivers' memory access
* Survive bad pointers
* Tame infinite loops
* Limit damage from buffer overflows
* Restrict access to kernel functions
* Restrict access to I/O ports
* Restrict communication with OS components
* Reincarnate dead or sick drivers
* Integrate interrupts and messages
Focusing a microkernel on a very small number of core services more closely adheres to Single Responsibility Principle compared to the Linux Kernel. That makes the overall kernel simpler to understand even if it may manage many drivers. See:
https://www.infoq.com/presenta...
"Rich Hickey emphasizes simplicity's virtues over easiness', showing that while many choose easiness they may end up with complexity, and the better way is to choose easiness along the simplicity path."
It is probably harder to write a microkernel line-for-line compared to the same number of generally less sophisticated lines on average in a monolithic kernel -- but overall the system is much simpler and thus more reliable because the focused microkernel is easier to audit and test separate from all the drivers.
My suggestion is that if Linus Torvalds was focused primarily on the code quality of 10,000 lines of microkernel code he would be less stressed than worrying about the quality of 20,000x as much monolithic kernel code where any badness in those 20,000,000 lines of Linux kernel code could (if you load the driver) infect the whole. Even if Linus still used the same amount of profanity per line of hypothetical Linux microkernel code, his profanity level would still be reduced 10,000x and so essentially round to zero! :-)
A Slashdot story from 2000 on this idea:
"Could Linux Become A Microkernel?"
https://ask.slashdot.org/story...
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
They got to him somehow. The SJW code-of-conduct is so absurd and political I have to believe this is his way of signalling that he's being forced. "The forced vacation" is another signal that something is up.
Bullshit, any whittling down of maintainers in the sense of "I spent a whole hour on this" etc etc. Would apply in the old scenario EXACTLY like it would in the new. I am not against harsh language, I think this ada and her followers should whine a bit less and accept the world as it is.. everything insults someone. But what you're saying is stupid too.
Linux has now included a Code of Conduct. Little strange maybe, just after the announcement of Linus.
It somehow confirms my claim he is pushed into doing this.
Linus is an employee, just like everybody else, he probably gets performance review like all of us.
Linux development is in the open, there have already been multiple incidents about Linus' treatments as well as people leaving kernel development because of his outbursts. It's waiting for real accidents to happen, and that must be avoided (too much is invested in the kernel, and Linus may be the boss on the development side, there are others who are invested in it at several levels).
https://www.zdnet.com/article/...
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
That was a lot of words to say you have no idea how Linux kernel development is done.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
You lost any crediblity you had as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
So SEEING AS YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
So SEEING AS YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
"classic Windows hosts trick to block the Coinhive or Crypto-Loot domains" - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/a-new-player-joins-coinhive-on-the-browser-cryptojacking-scene/ - BLEEPING COMPUTER
SANS ("A related approach to the DNS issue is to create a hosts file on each system that sends requests for spyware to some place else. Both Ramu and an anonymous reader have suggested this" hosts by myself & RAMU right @ START of "malware explosion" mid 2005 on) https://isc.sans.edu/forums/di...
Aryeh Goretsky/ESET/NOD32: hosts = good security http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7442373&cid=49747129/
ZD NET http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-use-a-hosts-file-to-improve-your-internet-experience/ "Hosts files really shine by letting you block ads, spyware sites, malware sites, & tracking sites"
Oliver Day (SYMANTEC/SECURITYFOCUS) http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491/
APK
P.S.=> You LOSE https://slashdot.org/comments....
See subject & results from THIS past month alone https://it.slashdot.org/commen... & https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... that's only recently while I've been on Linux (few months now only) & 100's of times vs. MANY other botnets/malwares etc. in the past circa 2006-early 2018 while I was on Windows: CONCRETE VISIBLE UNDENIABLE REALITY (see those links as proof).
P.S.=> ... & that's ONLY what /. reported on (there are FAR more) - SEE SUBJECT & THE PROOFS ABOVE that easily MAKE YOU EAT YOUR WORDS you BLOWHARD do-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERBOX... apk
Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017
Your premise that hostfiles are a good way to deal with advertising and malvertising is quite valid - by JazzLad April 20, 2016
his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015
his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015
I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015
that APK guy, I use his host file by rogoshen1 Tuesday March 03, 2015
I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017
* More are coming (by the dozens)
APK
P.S.=> SEE SUBJECT, lol (you are FAILING)... apk
Apk has the answer for that - really... kill automatic updates by adding a hosts file entry setting updates.steam.com or whatever to 127.0.0.1. You have to find the right hostname for each software you want to block updates on by raymorris (2726007) on Friday July 06, 2018
APK your posts on this and the hosts file posts, and more, have never been in error and/or bad advice by BlueStrat (756137) on Wednesday June 21, 2017
I support APK's stand on the hosts file and can't see why it's not used more than it is. My hosts file is 144247 lines long (4,332 Kb) it & a firewall serves me very well - by Trax3001BBS (2368736)
ABP is insufficient as a solid hosts file does everything APK reminds us about fast turtle September 17 2013
You need APK's hosts file - by Teun (17872) on Wednesday August 06, 2014
APK
P.S.=> How does EATING YOUR WORDS taste? LMAO... apk
APK solution STILL relevant Thud457 June 11 2015
Actually, APK is totally right on this count. Adblock Plus on Firefox mobile is a dog on older, or lower end, phones. A hostfile based adblocker makes for a much better experience in this context. Of course, your phone has to be rooted, which isn't the case with Firefox + adblock." - by chihowa on Saturday May 16, 2015
In a footnote, I would like to note that I find your hosts file admirable - by vel-ex-tech (4337079) on Tuesday November 24, 2015
APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment - by Culture20 on Thursday November 17
you're right about hosts files - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26
APK, I know people give you a lot of shit regarding hosts, but please don't ever stop - by nasredin (958927) on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:34PM
APK
P.S.=> More coming & you're DYING OF MALNUTRTION in EATING YOUR WORDS c6gunner, lol.. apk
I say the following as a caring human being who agrees with how useful HOSTS files are: Your zeal is to be respected - by dave420 (699308) on Monday September 08, 2014
But I love APK!The power of the hostfile compels you! by ratboy666 (104074) on Friday January 29, 2016
APK was right all along! C:\WINDOWS\HOSTS is the solution ;) - by sabri (584428) on Friday October 21, 2016
No complaints from me, I like APK's spam. Reminds me to use a host file. Also, his stuff is free. - by aaaaaaargh! (1150173) on Tuesday November 17, 2015
I'm a fan of apk. Yes he trolls, but he only trolls where it's contextually appropriate. I respect that - by Noah Haders (3621429) on Wednesday July 29, 2015
APK
P.S.=> See subject: EATING YOUR WORDS is NOT good nutrition c6gunner... apk
APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works. - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015
get around to 'installing' a hosts file list, not sure which one, likely the one from someonewhocares.org. If it works as well as what I used for a while about ten years ago, I'll be happy. And grateful to APK for the lesson and the reminder. - by kermidge (2221646) on Wednesday March 27
I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster. - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17
dammit MS, you proved APK right about something by lgw
APK
P.S.=> EAT YOUR WORDS c6gunner (even more)... apk
How surprised am I that the top comment is about this being the end of Linux?
Not very...
I am, however disappointed.
This is a great opportunity. I fully believe the quality of releases will only improve with this move. Linus is still going to be involved but if this goes well, he'll be able to articulate what his vision actually is more clearly, and he'll be able to get people on the same page.
Not only that, but there are many skilled people who would avoid kernel development just to keep that negativity out of their life.
More eyes on the kernel means more potential bugfixes as well. This is one area where you really don't want a dearth of eyes on the code.
This is a good thing.
the Host File Engine performs exactly as promised - by mmell (832646) on Thursday February 16, 2017
(APK) is still right a hosts file really does work. It even blocked a some of the video ads that were inserted into a stream OrangeTide February 10 2016
I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017
I've never tried to belittle (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good - by BronsCon (927697) on Thursday February 11, 2016 @06:48PM (#51491263)
APK
P.S.=> YOU'RE OUTNUMBERED DOZENS TO 1 (+ You EAT YOUR WORDS c6gunner, lmao)... apk
c6gunner tell us: HOW DID EATING YOUR WORDS TASTE? Like your FOOT in your BIG do-nothing chatterbox "ne'er-do-well" MOUTH??
* You = OUTNUMBERED 50++:1 or MORE vs. you FAKE NAME (for your FAKE LIE of a "so-called" life, a WASTED life) do-nothing "ne'er-do-well".
APK
P.S.=> Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS as you CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above WHERE YOU IMPERSONATED ME like a PETULANT CHILD, you unbelievable loser... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit? https://slashdot.org/comments.... ??
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS as you CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down as your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & worse is you altering /. user's words there.
All because I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't TALKER after you tried to mock me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
SEEING YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED BIGMOUTH, lol!
* You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk + a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself other than your BLOWHARD bullshit, lol - you LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENTLY loser:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS & CHOKE on them... apk
Most of us learn this when we are children.
Kriston
c6gunner SHOOTS HIMSELF down w/ his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & w/ c6gunner altering /. user's words there.
All since I challenged c6gunner to show better work than mine he did & you can't c6gunner "ne'er-do-well"!
Right after you tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com... for no good reason & I didn't bug you @ all!
YOU DEMAND PROOF "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?
I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED!
* You're FAKENAME trash you childish dishonest punk + YOU are a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENT:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS... apk
"This code is bad for technical reasons X, Y, and Z. I'm not accepting this until this is fixed", is plain and simple.
"No it's not. You're just rejecting it because I'm a women you misogynist."
That's how this plays out.
His Daughter got in his ear.....
https://opensource.com/life/15/8/patricia-torvalds-interview
What suggestions do you have for leaders in open source communities to help them attract and maintain a more diverse mix of contributors?
"I think this applies well to attracting and maintaining a talented and diverse mix of contributors: Safe spaces are important. I have seen the misogynistic and racist comments made in some open source communities, and subsequent dismissals when people point out the issues. I think that in maintaining a professional community there have to be strong standards on what constitutes harassment or inappropriate conduct. Of course, people can—and will—have a variety of opinions on what they should be able to express in open source communities, or any community. However, if community leaders actually want to attract and maintain diverse talent, they need to create a safe space and hold community members to high standards.
I also think that some community leaders just don't value diversity. It's really easy to argue that tech is a meritocracy, and the reason there are so few marginalized people in tech is just that they aren't interested, and that the problem comes from earlier on in the pipeline. They argue that if someone is good enough at their job, their gender or race or sexual orientation doesn't matter. That's the easy argument. But I was raised not to make excuses for mistakes. And I think the lack of diversity is a mistake, and that we should be taking responsibility for it and actively trying to make it better."
Sounds suspicious, and like a takeover ...
Linus should really step away and let others take over. Also, split linux into a couple of differ kernels with different focus such as embedded, server, desktop, etc.
As if the Kernel and git weren't enough, Linus now invents the "Unsend" button.
c6gunner shot himself down w/ his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & w/ c6gunner altering /. user's words there.
All since I challenged c6gunner to show better work than mine he did & you can't c6gunner "ne'er-do-well"!
Right after you tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com... for no good reason & I didn't bug you @ all!
YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?
I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED!
* You're FAKENAME trash you childish dishonest punk + YOU are a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" CHATTERING dolt w/ ZERO to show for yourself!
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENT:
Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS... apk
Code of Conduct: Those Ejected should rescind their license grant.
The grant is not supported by consideration.
It dispenses only largess, and asks for no recompense.
It is a bare license.
Thus it can be revoked by the grantor at any time.
His act of grace bestowed, and his act of propriety can rescind.
The free software world is held up muchly by a gentleman's agreement.
The agreement is that we shall take mutually beneficial actions, vis a vis the field of software engineering, to increase the net freedom available to all.
It is not so much held up by law, regardless of what the lay programmers and users of programmers would imagine to believe.
To turn one's contributions around as a weapon against the contributor:
to tell him he must not say this or that, he must not act this or that way,
lest he be barred from his hobby; let he be barred from freely giving
dispensation, is an abhorrent abuse of his magnanimity
Now this gentleman's agreement is being, or has been shattered.
You will find that the law has no supports to bind him;
but many to fell the ungrateful who saw themselves the inviolate annuitants of his altruism.
Bare licenses are revocable at will. They always have been.
Those who are thrown out of the "Linux Kernel Community" in punishment for not obeying this CoC, who's past contributions count for nothing in the face of those who will throughout the ages to control men in all things; for not "behaving properly" here or there, within their public or private life; for not bending the knee to the Anglo-American religion, should absolutely rescind the grant they have dispensed.
They are well within their rights to do so, and hostile action must be met with the same and worse in response.
If you always produce quality code, what do you have to fear?
Nah, the "people who would otherwise contribute quality code" actually contribute substandard garbage, get called out, and cry about it on Twitter. Linux runs a large fraction of modern civilization. Letting crap in is extremely dangerous.