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Apple Will Judge Call, Email Activity To Assign Users a 'Trust Score' (theinquirer.net)

Apple recently updated its iTunes privacy policy page, making mention of a "trust score" it gives iPhone users on how they make calls or send emails. The INQUIRER reports: "To help identify and prevent fraud, information about how you use your device, including the approximate number of phone calls or emails you send and receive, will be used to compute a device trust score when you attempt a purchase," Apple explained. "The submissions are designed so Apple cannot learn the real values on your device. The scores are stored for a fixed time on our servers."

In practical terms, the Cupertino crew will only look at Apple account usage patterns and hoover up metadata rather than more personal, and potentially damning information. [T]he data collection and trust score assigning should help Apple better spot and dodgy activity going on in Apple accounts that aren't in keeping with those of the legitimate users. [I]t's not entirely clear how Apple will use the metadata to actually spot fraud, as it hasn't explained its workings.

106 comments

  1. Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Telling the fraudsters how the score is calculated would help them game it.

    1. Re:Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Is the Russia collusion in the room with you now Ms. Nash?"

    2. Re: Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

      My recent calls log indicates I have only received 8 phone calls since 1 July.

      I hope that does not count against me.

    3. Re: Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG really?!! You think the âKGBâ(TM) (no longer exists btw. Not since the fall of the USSR) is your biggest threat? Hell, what china does to their own citizens makes anything russia does look tame. Be more afraid of a government that needs to control you year-round than one that only is interested in manipulating you once every couple years during election cycle.

    4. Re: Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey everybody, look! Apple is the be China! :-D

    5. Re:Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like how telling someone how they ended up on the do-not-fly list would allow terrorists to game it, eh?

    6. Re: Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by DutchSter · · Score: 0

      My recent calls log indicates I have only received 8 phone calls since 1 July.

      I hope that does not count against me.

      Wouldn't it be ironic if you got a lower score by actually using your iPhone as you know.... a phone?

      Apple Bot 1: "This person made 30 calls yesterday from their iPhone"
      Apple Bot 2: "Who the hell does that with a phone? Better knock a few points off. Clearly they're a scammer in the making."

      For the record my father in law is a property manager for a senior living community. He averages 40-50 incoming and outgoing calls on a given workday. I, on the other hand, might make one call a day (and ignore five spam callers). Given this wide range how does one apply any meaningful analysis to it? Maybe I'm wrong but I really don't think robocallers use mobile phones and sanctioned apps to do their dirty work.

    7. Re:Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The no fly list is really just sesame credit on a smaller scale. The real purpose is to restrict the movements of activist types with the side effect of also being able to restrict the movement of terrorists. It wouldn't serve tptb to reveal the true purpose and extent of who is on the list so they cite national security.

    8. Re:Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The KGB/FSB isn't what you need to be afraid of. China's social credit scoring system, and the fact that Apple's system as well as Facebooks can be subverted to feed into this. It is only a matter of time before the US and Europe hop onboard the social credit system as well. Hell, I read slashdot posts about people BEGGING for this to be implemented in the US, as a way to control bad behavior.

  2. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not entirely clear how Apple will use the metadata to actually spot fraud, as it hasn't explained its workings

    Apple keeps track of what you do so they can be alerted when you do something unusual.

    Seems pretty clear to me.

    1. Re: Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't buy enough products from the Apple store, you must be a criminal.

    2. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I figure.
      If you're actively using your phone in a regular way, it's likely a purchase that conforms to that is legit. If you get a device, it's never used, and then suddenly it's used to purchase a large number of products, you might be a criminal.

    3. Re:Duh by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is, legitimate people do suddenly change their daily routine, for instance by going on holiday...

      These anti fraud systems often result in false positives which are extremely painful for the legitimate users. For instance, i just had one of my cards blocked while on holiday, and the only way to unblock it is to call the bank during working hours. This might sound reasonable until you consider...

      On holiday, making a phonecall back to your home country is often difficult and expensive.. Hotels usually charge a premium for phonecalls especially international ones, mobile roaming is usually extremely expensive, cheap local sims often block international calls by default and the instructions to enable them are in the local language which you might not understand, international calls are generally very expensive unless you have a specific calling plan - which you wont have access to. You may well be paying multiple dollars per minute to make a call.

      The bank is likely to keep you on hold for a long time, further multiplying the cost.

      Some banks require you to call from your registered callerid, which forces you to use mobile roaming at whatever extortionate rate the operator charges.

      They need to use messaging services instead of insisting on phonecalls, not only would it be much cheaper when travelling (virtually all hotels now offer free wifi), but its also more convenient and cheaper - instead of sitting on hold waiting for an operator your message goes into a queue, you can get on with something else while you wait for a response and won't be spending money while your waiting.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Duh by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Just log into your bank's online account management system (there is usually an app for doing this) and leave them a message. That's the standard way of handling things when you travel.

    5. Re: Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure about whichever country you are from (you called it holiday, wich we dont typically say in the US), but if I were in that situation I would login/create a pre-paid account with a voip provider like binfone. Theres a few that simply let you terminate (outbound) calls

    6. Re:Duh by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Sounds like good reasons to change banks.

    7. Re:Duh by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I just go to my credit union's web portal, go to the Travel section, click the start and end days that I'm traveling, check off the states/countries, and I'm good to go. Never had an issue traveling anywhere.

      Does your bank not offer a service like that, or do you not know about it?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Duh by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      > These anti fraud systems often result in false positives which are extremely painful for the legitimate users.

      And sometimes they are just useless anyway. I was on a business trip to Europe for 2 weeks. I got called on my cellphone by one of my credit card companies whose card I had been using on the trip in Switzerland... literally while I was using that card to gas up the rental car on the way to the airport to fly back home.

      That's right, after **13 days** of activity on that card in Europe, an ocean away from where I live normally they decided it was time to call to see if I knew anything about those purchases.

    9. Re:Duh by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      They don't offer a facility to send a message through it... some banks do, this one doesnt...

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  3. Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey, Apple should call it a "social credit system". Maybe brand it as "iTrust" or something like that! The score goes up the more iProducts you buy, unless they get old, then the score goes down.

    1. Re:Social Credit by lhowaf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Good to know the technology exchange between Apple and China is a two-way street.

    2. Re:Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iSpy with my little i.

    3. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also go up with positive comments about Apple in social media and down if you try to know more about open standards and digital freedom in general.

    4. Re: Social Credit by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      I can probably kill my social credit with Apple instantly by just pulling that old iPod Touch 3 out of the drawer and turning it on. Proabably, though, the Safari on it is incapable of connecting to apple.com.

    5. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this is in addition to the apple police they have roaming the hallways here and other sites making sure everyone is worshipping apple properly.
      Way to double up on the enforcement apple

    6. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like that episode on Black Mirror where their scores affected the price of rent and credit worthiness. In the end people 5 starred everything including the kid pouring your coffee at starbucks. Do people not get the concept of grade inflation?

    7. Re: Social Credit by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Like that episode on Black Mirror where their scores affected the price of rent and credit worthiness. In the end people 5 starred everything including the kid pouring your coffee at starbucks. Do people not get the concept of grade inflation?

      The Orville had a better exploration, where anyone could "like" or "dislike" a person or their actions and that created a social score that stuck with a person forever. Too many "dislikes" and a person couldn't even get served at a store or coffee shop and eventually dislikes could become high enough that you could be sentenced to having your personality wiped. If it got close to that stage people would literally have to go on an apology tour to try to get enough likes to counterbalance it. I don't think society will ever (hopefully) get that far, but it is a good warning for how "social scores" are a really bad idea.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    8. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple will probably reuse its CPU throttling code. If you become a bad apple consumer then your phone will start to slow down; prompting you to go out and buy a new one.

    9. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Society is already that far, just without the ability to directly look up your like/dislike numbers.

    10. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi. This is 2018. Have you paid ANY attention to the actual news in the last two years? THIS IS HAPPENING NOW.

    11. Re: Social Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you could be sentenced to having your personality wiped.

      Because somehow, wiping your personality is not the same as death, so it's OK.

      This fetish of "mental modification" as the answer to everyone's unwillingness to accept the differences of others needs to die. All it results in is a world of puppets lead by a single hand that is not yours, but the most corrupt person around.

  4. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're just like Google!
    Glad I kept my startac.

    1. Re: Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You and Richard Spencer.

    2. Re: Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look
      We have a Racist here. All of this is based on nothing but my sjw Spider-Man ring.

  5. Buy from Apple... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And all is good. But for every purchase from Amazon, Google, or a competing vendor will cause you to lose some of your trust score. You don't want Tim Cook to not trust you, do you? You might get pushed back a few months in approval of buying that new iThingy!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you so fucking boring though? That's what I want to know. What are you doing here? Who is this for?

    2. Re:Buy from Apple... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Well, clearly its for you. How could you not tell.

    3. Re: Buy from Apple... by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      He's busy flipping around in the bottom of the boat. And wondering why he wasn't even considered worth throwing in the live well.

    4. Re:Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.. apple is the last company i would trust with anything.
      Just wait until they are blacklisting their own customers for not buying enough istuff.

    5. Re: Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, they fucking do. 2 years after we bought iPads for the brats, they stopped getting updates because we hadn't paid or annual Apple tax. Oh, I know, that's my fault because i didn't buy the newest one, I bought a slightly older one. Funny how this crappy e lite can get new apps even thigh its much older and crappier and not Apple ish

    6. Re: Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or iOS 12 supports iPads all the way back to 2013 and you are either full of shit or extremely cheap

    7. Re: Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either way apple is not pleased and will lower their iTrust score

    8. Re: Buy from Apple... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Dude, they fucking do. 2 years after we bought iPads for the brats, they stopped getting updates because we hadn't paid or annual Apple tax. Oh, I know, that's my fault because i didn't buy the newest one, I bought a slightly older one. Funny how this crappy e lite can get new apps even thigh its much older and crappier and not Apple ish

      Quit lying.

      Unless it was a certain model of iPad, that did have an extremely-short (by Apple Standards; long for Android) Support window, Apple supports devices for at least as long as is technologically practical.

    9. Re: Buy from Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No lie detected. My brother has been buying his kids new ipads every year, because they get unreasonably slow and a factory wipe often bricks them. If it isn't bricked, it is still slow the point of unusable.

      Meanwhile, my first gen Nexus 7 from 2012 is still chugging along quite nicely, running Android 9.

  6. Just like communist China! by sgage · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Better look over your shoulder, and mind how you use your iPhone, because Your Score is being calculated. This is just a bit too much, and you know it will be gamed and spoofed. It's just another hit to your privacy. But no one seems to care anymore...

    1. Re:Just like communist China! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better a communist China than a communist North Korea

    2. Re: Just like communist China! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Just like communist China! by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Informative

      What they will be looking at is pretty straight forward and most banks do something similar. So activity surges, purchases suddenly from a different location, possibly types of products purchased. Bad billing costs more, loses customers more, so trying to make sure the end user is not cheated and does not get fraudulent bills is important.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:Just like communist China! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they will be looking at is pretty straight forward and most banks do something similar. So activity surges, purchases suddenly from a different location, possibly types of products purchased. Bad billing costs more, loses customers more, so trying to make sure the end user is not cheated and does not get fraudulent bills is important.

      They might even be looking for accounts that just buy and “review” stuff, by seeing if the devices they’re on have signs of human activity.

  7. Difference: by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google: Knows who you call, analyzed converted text of entire conversation, scanned every email for content and stored that on servers.

    Apple: Doesn't care who you called just that you called 10k different numbers, Siri reads email to look for context and helpful suggestions, but sends no data to Apple servers to do so. It would send Apple a note if again, you had emailed 10k people in the last hour....

    Now do you really want people to get away with mass spam/robocalling on mobile devices?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Difference: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good work! apple just increased your iTrust number.

    2. Re: Difference: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good trolling. Apple doesn't need to send that much data at once when they process out on their distributed spy devices.

    3. Re: Difference: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is that if you have two or more i devices, siri is near useless on the other device unless all email apps are configured on all devices even if you don't want it?

    4. Re: Difference: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The email configuration is also shared (by encryped keychain) by all devices automagically. You don't give Apple enough credit: they fixed the grandmother problem, in that they made their products easy enough for grandmothers to use without help.

    5. Re: Difference: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My concern is that whole give an inch and take a mile thing. The minute you concede thatâ(TM)s some amount of meddling is OK, you open the door for people to constantly redefine what an acceptable level is It may come across as intolerance, but you have to insist on zero tampering. You can never unring a bell

  8. Re:Just like Black Mirror by whoever57 · · Score: 1, Informative
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is frightening. Inexcusable.

    1. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      Hey, Apple is required to do this kind of thing in China, why not make use of the tech elsewhere, too?

      We wouldn't want Apple to fall behind and not have this kind of tech developed, tested, and ready for when it becomes mandatory.

    2. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that is where apple copied it from; China.
      When apple announces something new its always fun to try and figure out who they copied/stole it from.

    3. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is this frightening? It's your phone identifying a pattern of behavior and setting a score that can be used to help identify fraud on iTunes purchases.

      Apple won't get any information about you, won't be able to identify you so I am not seeing the connection to the chinese social scores, which creates a score for you and then is using things like your family to create the score, and where it is anything but anonymous.

      Now my guess is this won't be super effective, but with the rapidly increasing scams that are occurring more and more, if they can reduce fraud while keeping user anonymity that will be pretty good. If nothing it's an interesting idea.

      If this would address incoming phone calls, I would opt in for something a lot more draconic if it could eliminate a bulk of the increasing phone scams that I get almost daily now, unfortunately this won't address that.

    4. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is google analyzing your behavior for advertising a bad thing? They're doing exactly the same thing, except better tailoring your experience.

    5. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, LOL, if the score is bring computed in the phone, it's completely useless. Someone will just reverse engineer it and spoof the score.

      There's a reason why precisely 0 multiplayer servers trust the remote client, and compute as much as possible server side.

    6. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 1

      It's bad because they have access to very intimate information/data (political affiliations, personal habits, associations), any of which can be construed as offensive/contrary to 'being a good citizen' -- and because this idea of 'good' can change over time. Google can share any of that without the person knowing and can have real world effects (law enforcement considering any of it 'suspicious' for example).

      Consider this: Originally in the west (up until the 1960's) almost everyone was at least loosely conservative/righty/pro-liberty/anti-communist. Now, the Overton window has shifted so far left that communism/lefty-ideals are the norm and anyone who is openly conservative/righty is considered to be fascist (which is actually incorrect) and can be attacked without consequence to the attacker. Examples/video are everywhere. Imagine that Google knows all and can 'out' someone without their permission -- to law enforcement, but even private companies. It's currently happening -- companies (like banks/payment processors, social media websites) that have a lefty ideology are cancelling and blocking accounts for righty people.

      Another example is this: If a health insurance company wants to know who eats 'well' versus 'poorly', it could ask (and get, for a price) Google to provide the names of people who buy junk food, don't exercise, go to the hospital, etc, a lot. The insurance company can line that up with their policy holders and even to new people as they give out quotes. Using their actuaries, they can be more accurate on their risk of 'loss' and thus more competitive than other insurance companies, and thus more profitable.

      Worse things can happen. What if Google matches you to someone else's name and you are labelled in a way that you are not. You can be un-personed for something you didn't do.

    7. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This really doesn't just apply to persecution of right wing people. It applies to any instance where a corporation will be able to get advantage over someone for a profit. Take for example BofA cancelling accounts of people it suspects are illegal aliens. I have a relative who shares a phone account with someone who speaks spanish, BofA has started sending that relative mailings in spanish. Luckily my relative owes money to BofA so cancelling the account wouldnt make sense.

    8. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 1

      I imagine there's a law that says that non-citizens/non-residents aren't supposed to have an account, no?

    9. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a very apple RDF view of how Google operates.

    10. Re: Given Chinas Social Scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol! It is quite obvious you are American. In the rest of the world, the American Overton Window has shifted so far to the right that Nazi Germany's world record for authoritarian capitalism is being broken. It is literally only Americans (and typically the dumber ones) that don't see this. Luckily your younger kids are waking up to this reality, and are learning about your CIA's massive propaganda campaign to stamp out left wing movements even if it destroys entire countries.

      If you're being called a fascist, you should try not being fascist. It's quite simple. Get rid of the influx of well known and proud Nazis in your conservative party and nobody will associate your conservative party with fascists.

  10. Trust THIS, Apple : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll never buy an Apple product again.

    You want to insult your customers by doing stuff like this, you Apple assholes ?

    EAT SHIT AND DIE.

  11. Buh bye, Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't trust you much before, but there's none now. And there's nothing you as a company can do to repair it.

    1. Re: Buh bye, Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you don't like being anonymous, and would rather be tracked and have your information sold by Google to the highest bidder, or are you going to run back to your flip phone where ATT or Verizon sell your info to the highest bidder?

    2. Re: Buh bye, Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...would rather be tracked and have your information sold by Google to the highest bidder, or are you going to run back to your flip phone where ATT or Verizon sell your info to the highest bidder?

      But in this case, apple IS the highest bidder.

    3. Re: Buh bye, Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the only bidder! Just the kind of monopoly apple loves.

  12. Just like their fascist masters in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    China is officially "communist", but they long ago learned what everybody else who tries communism learns: it does not work. China has kept the label "communist", but actually has gone fascist and is more purely that than any country since Mussolini and Hitler.

    Consider:

    1. They pretend to allow corporations, but in reality these corporations are tied to the ruling regime and may only exist as long as the regime approves them politically. Anybody who gets out of line politically will lose his position in the corporation (and possibly his life). The control of the society is mostly indirect and involves "businesses".

    2. They no longer attempt to have government own everything, including the means of production, and no longer pretend to be trying to make everybody equally poor.

    3. They have a leader for life instead of a leader who is periodically selected by a politbureau.

    Mussolini, the creator of fascism, would embrace modern China and recognize it as his stepchild. Marx would be upset by it.

    Apple, in embracing the Chinese government and obeying all its evil edicts in order to use its slave labor and try to sell into its markets, has done what most businessmen do in such relationships - embrace the evil in exchange for profitability. The very same Apple that refused to help the US govt on a terror case, happily embraces the actual fascism of China.

  13. Great by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

    I'm glad there's no privacy concerns and we'll only debate the implementation details dispassionately. Aaaah, the good old times are finally back... Have a pleasant conversation. I'm off to take my dementia meds, soon as I remember where I put them...

  14. What could possibly go wrong? by JustNiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So now Apple are going to be able to directly affect peoples lives entirely based on some undisclosed criteria made up in secrret by a bunch of hardcore liberals. What could possibly go wrong?
    http://fortune.com/2017/10/17/...

    1. Re: What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By directly impacting lives, you mean to try and stop fraudulent transactions on iTunes? Also what does being liberal have anything to do with this? You can be sure Apple is just as happy selling phones, music, and apps to conservatives just as they are to liberals.

      This is basically using machine learning to identify phone pattern and email pattern use, where your phone will give you a score, and then based on that pattern if purchases are attempted on iTunes which based on that score flag the transaction as potential fraud it will kick it to review or where it's unquestionable probably block the transaction outright.

      People tend to be very pattern specific, and there are likely a number of behaviors that can be used to raise a red flag for fraud. The only thing that's somewhat different in the application of it is the keeping the user aninimity.

    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by havana9 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I suppose that is something similar on what happens with credit cards and debit cards, so if a purchase is made out of a normal pattern the card is locked. When I travel abroad, I phone to my bank and I tell them when and where I'll go. In case of false positives, happened once and an ATM refused my card, a quick call to the bank resolved the problem.

  15. Fuck Apple by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    Isn't that special?

  16. Like a credit score by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Credit scores have been around for a long time. They aren't perfect, but they do a reasonable job of predicting whether a borrower will default.

    Why do we feel Apple's move is creepy, but not TransUnion?

    Maybe we could one day set our email inboxes to accept emails only from a sender with a trust score over some threshold. That sounds good to me!

    1. Re:Like a credit score by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Oh people definitely think TransUnion is creepy. But they came around long before the interwebs could let us all know that our privacy had been destroyed behind our back and by the time we did, it was already "business as usual."

      Not that it matters. Nobody will stop using their credit cards or getting loads. And nobody will give up their iPhones. At least for a first approximation of "nobody."

    2. Re:Like a credit score by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 2

      So how else would you solve the problem of knowing whether or not you can trust someone attempting to initiate a transaction with you, or whether a review is fake?

    3. Re:Like a credit score by anegg · · Score: 1

      If Apple is counting the phone calls and e-mails that I send/receive on MY device, none of which involve them (Apple) as a party to the conversation/transaction, and slurping that data up on THEIR servers, that is disturbing and creepy to me.

      So-called "credit bureaus" collect information from commercial entities (that I don't own) that reflect those entities experience with me, and pool that information so that those commercial entities together have a collective idea of how I might do business with them in the future. The data that is being shared is shared by one of the parties to the transaction. I don't like some of the details of how the system is operated, but conceptually it is a lot less creepy than my device being used to track my behavior and feed it up to someone who is NOT party to any of the transactions.

      My possessions should not be feeding data to other people unless I want them to. This revelation seems to add Apple phones (which I have one of) to the list of things that I find creepy, like:

      • Smart TVs that monitor my viewing in any way and feed it back to the company that made the TV
      • Electric meters that monitor my consumption with a granularity small enough to permit the electric company to make reasonably good guesses as to my minute-by-minute use of electrical devices in my home
      • Vehicles with telematics that report my vehicle usage to the automobile manufacturer
      • Smart devices like the Nest smoke detector that monitor "presence" information in my home, room by room, and report it to the manufacturer
      • Smart phones that collect my location data and feed it to the phone manufacturer/operating system supplier

      A party to a transaction that is tracking data was at least in involved in the transaction, which makes it less creepy in my book. I'm sure Hulu keeps track of what TV shows/movies I stream from their service, I know the phone company keeps track of the phone calls I make (and probably the ones I receive) through their system, and lord knows that any cloud-based service that I use is up to their neck in data from me related to that service. But an entity whose only relationship to me is that they manufactured a technology artifact that I'm using has no business in my use of that artifact once they have sold it to me unless I choose to share those details with them.

      I don't want my silverware reporting what I eat to Oneida, I don't want my glassware reporting what I drink to Corning, I don't want my bed reporting the details of my sleep habits/sex life to Serta, I don't want my underwear reporting my bowel movements to Hanes, I don't want light bulbs reporting their on/off status to Phillips, I don't want my vacuum cleaners reporting what they clean off my carpet to Dyson, I don't want my alarm clock reporting when I wake up to Sony, I don't want my stereo reporting what music I listen to to Yamaha, I don't want my pens reporting what I write to Bic, I don't want my cameras reporting what I like to take pictures of to Nikon, and I don't want my sex toys reporting anything to anyone.

      Privacy is not a dead concept, and it is not unimportant. We (as a society) have to come to grips with the fact that previously impossible intrusions into our lives and our private affairs have been made possible through the technology that we have developed. Now that the natural limits on these intrusions have been shattered, we either give up on the very concept of privacy, or else we establish artificial limits. If we fail to establish artificial limits, then the list of what I don't want that I enumerated above could very well come about as a dystopian future.

      Our means of establishing limits on intrusions into our private lives are at a minimum governmental (legislation, regulation) and societal (market pressures). As individuals, we are hindered by our lack of organization and shared goals, which allows better organized commercial entities to follow their own commercial self-interest. At what point do we develop enough of a shared desire among us to bring to bear the weapons of politics to achieve our goals?

  17. Do I need iTunes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think not. That's something I can easily live without. No need for Apple either.

  18. Start the countdown by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The submissions are designed so Apple cannot learn the real values on your device.

    How long do you think it'll be before some hackers prove this data can be de-anonymized?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Start the countdown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering it's all a black box and we have only Apple, the "we promise we're not intentionally slowing older phones down oops you caught us OK we'll stop doing it we pinky swear" company's word to go on, who's to say it even needs to be de-anonymized? We have no idea what information Apple has on users, other than what he can guess based on court cases where iCloud accounts were subpoenaed. Which, based on that, is basically everything: if you let your iPhone backup to iCloud, they already have all this information in a form they can just hand over to law enforcement, meaning they can read it themselves.

      I doubt the data will even need to be de-anonymized. They're almost certainly lying.

  19. Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least they're honest, I guess.

    Never bought any Apple products and guess what.. I never will.

  20. They've adopted China's Social Credit System! by Chas · · Score: 1

    JOY!

    Yet another reason to never give CrApple ANY money.
    EVER.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  21. Re:Just like Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Black Mirror has to be the most overrated show ever. If you want a shorter, funnier and more insightful social media skewering Community did one.

  22. Uhh by backslashdot · · Score: 2

    If you have a crisis life event, you may suddenly be making lots of phone calls and need to make emergency purchases. Thats when your phone and card will stop working?

    1. Re:Uhh by willy_me · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thats when your phone and card will stop working?

      More like, that is when you can not use your phone in place of a card. Nothing is stopping you from using your card directly. A slight loss of convenience is all that will result should this go wrong. And I see no indication that your phone would be disabled. Purchases using Apply Pay - yes, but who cares about that in a time of emergency.

    2. Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wish it was that easy.

      The very moment someone has this kind of data in their vaults, the snakes will crawl out of the woodwork asking, paying, demanding and forcing their way into accessing that data.

      If you trust a government or any other institution with a similar size, you are dangerously naive - and Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Google have reached a size that easily dwarfs a lot of states.

    3. Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll sell your "iTrust rating" to anyone who pays, and your cards will be cancelled, you'll lose your job, and incur local, state, and federal fines for untrustworthiness.

    4. Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or if you just change jobs (and move), since your next paycheck is delayed 4-8 weeks...

  23. Aple and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is going to "introduce" in the west the same Orwellian "social credit" system they helped to build in communist China.

    In China you cant travel, have a job, banks do not loan money and so if the "social credit system" what starts for everybody at 800 points "is too low because individual bought some beers or talked "bad things" in internet forums." It will be in full working order by 2020 as the Chinese media stated. They are going to install about 800 million cameras with real time face recognition across China, and will do areal time surveillance about persons online activity.

  24. we are not in china by renegade600 · · Score: 1

    sounds like something china is doing. they have a social score and if works a lot like credit scores and has the same effect on their lives. is this what apple is really aiming for start small with emails???

  25. Apple Will Judge Call, Email Activity by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 0

    The only think Apple needs to judge is the suppliers and their own engineers and PR people.

    How are they going to judge me since I don't have, want, or use an iPhone? Oh yeah: poor. Or even: deplorable!

    --
    If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
  26. I’m sure they mean well,but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am sure Apple has the right mindset on this. Cellular spam is at a all time high. But i think this sort of thing should be addressed by the cellular companies not handset makers.

  27. This is straight from communist China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a copy of China's "social credit" system. This is totalitarianism on display.

  28. China by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    Apple is working more closely with China than I thought ...

  29. So I'm persona non grata? by zarmanto · · Score: 1

    It sounds to me like that means that Apple is going to seriously distrust nutcases like me... I use the gMail app exclusively for e-mail on my iPhone, and I rarely make actual phone calls, except for occasionally during my drive home from work. I mean, how could that possibly be "normal"? .... right, Apple?

  30. Don't use Apple's email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why I use my own email client and server via an ssh app. Secure, and none of Apple's business.

  31. Crazy people used to say "Kill Your Television" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a sane person saying "Kill Your Smartphone"

  32. Would you trust Tim Cook.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To tied you up, spread eagle, butt naked on his bed, with your puckered butthole arched out towards him and a bottle of lub in his hand?

    I didn't think so..

  33. This is why I bought and XS then returned it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I took time to read all of the Apple Privacy items. Even though they say that they protect your privacy which they do to some extent. I was horrified when I read this and other items like - "We watch what music you play and what podcasts you listen to in order to predict fraud" Or something like that.

    I had the new XS for one day and brought it back to the store.

    It seems that it's impossible to trust Microsoft, google and even Apple now. I wish companies would stop screwing customers. There must be other ways to worry about fraud.

  34. good initiative from Apple by ennis99 · · Score: 1

    I think it's a good initiative from Apple to apply this type of security to protect the personal data of their customers ____________________________________________________ https://downloader.vip/minecra... https://downloader.vip/google-... https://downloader.vip/counter...