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Chinese City 'Plans To Launch Artificial Moon To Replace Streetlights' (theguardian.com)
The south-western Chinese city of Chengdu is planning to launch an illumination satellite in 2020 that is "designed to complement the moon at night," though it would be eight times as bright. "The 'dusk-like glow' of the satellite would be able to light an area with a diameter of 10-80km, while the precise illumination range could be controlled within tens of meters -- enabling it to replace streetlights," reports The Guardian. From the report: The vision was shared by Wu Chunfeng, the chairman of the private space contractor Chengdu Aerospace Science and Technology Microelectronics System Research Institute Co (Casc), at a national mass innovation and entrepreneurship event held in Chengdu last week. Wu reportedly said testing had begun on the satellite years ago and the technology had now evolved enough to allow for launch in 2020. It is not clear whether the plan has the backing of the city of Chengdu or the Chinese government, though Casc is the main contractor for the Chinese space program.
The People's Daily was quick to reassure those concerned about the fake moon's impact on night-time wildlife. It cited Kang Weimin, director of the Institute of Optics, School of Aerospace, Harbin Institute of Technology, who "explained that the light of the satellite is similar to a dusk-like glow, so it should not affect animals' routines."
The People's Daily was quick to reassure those concerned about the fake moon's impact on night-time wildlife. It cited Kang Weimin, director of the Institute of Optics, School of Aerospace, Harbin Institute of Technology, who "explained that the light of the satellite is similar to a dusk-like glow, so it should not affect animals' routines."
If you're an amateur astronomer in China.
If they can pull off such a power hungry and yet precise lighting system, that will be amazing in itself. Of course the environmental impact will be 'interesting'. Most of the Chinese cities are over lighted, so no big deal right?
In-city viewing is less than ideal, of course, but it's not impossible to find darker areas, even within a metropolis city limits.
I can't imagine that hobbyist astronomers are going to be very thrilled about this.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Ahh, the whole town illuminated, when it needs it the most, on dark and cloudy nights, when nary a star is to be seen, ohh wait ;D.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
It never dawned on me that someone lighting up the earth with satellites would ever make sense. Man will run this earth, without looking back, until it bites him in the ass.
--
Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light - Helen Keller
That this won't see the light of day.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
Just how did this make it from story idea someplace in Chengdu to the pages of the Gaurdian or was that the Onion and finally to Slashdot without anyone asking just how the hell it's supposed to work ?
Just what orbit are they going to put it in where it can cast a 10-80 km diameter circle of illumination and be able to illuminate the city for a significant fraction of the night ?
"...similar to a dusk-like glow, so it should not affect animals' routines."
Is s/he a fool or does s/he think we are?
Dusk all night long, no, that wouldn't upset anything.
Why not a "Natural, noon-like glare" ? Shouldn't upset anything either.
They can always amp-up the emitters if they have a lawless uprising in the city.
Don't pretend for even a nanosecond that they didn't think of that, regardless of engineering feasibility.
Isn't this the plot of the old Bond movie with Pierce Brosnan?
The one with the crazy Korean dude who had a giant frikkin' laz0r beam in space?
I can just picture the initial testing being like ants under a magnifying glass. Oooops, still trying to get that dialed in guys.
Chengdu weather: Of the 8 days shown, 5 are cloudy. No illumination from space then.
how do animals cope in places like Alaska in the summertime when the sun almost never set? This will save a ton of electricity and get far way better pictures for the spy programs
Is not how to help with climate change, guys. What we need is light being directed *away* from earth.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I will time my crime spree based on the weather app.
**Forecast tonight is for overcast skies with a side of mayhem**
The nice thing about the moon is the cycle - when it's full it's nice illumination and the world looks interesting, but a new moon is almost as great with a fairly starry sky even in a city if the air is really clear.
What they could do to help this though, is to turn off the light very late - say midnight or 1am. That way you still get the safety benefits of good illumination, but you also can still stay up late to see stars if you like.
I wonder how safe this will be compared to real street-lights though - one of the issues with moonlight even when it is bright, is that the light is so flat with poor shadowing that depth perception is hampered. Maybe since this is brighter it will be a lot better.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
doesn't mean you 'should'.
seeing how something like 60-75 billion LEDs are made each year chinese factories.. what the fuck is the point here?
it's a space station.
They are going to do this about the time of the Chinese mission to teleport to the Sun (at night, of course). Absurd, technically.
In any case, street lights are far more practical, and even a moonlight tower is perfectly practical for mostly the same effect - but less so than street lights.
How do you get a mirror that big into geostationary orbit?
You can't expect dusk-like light to have no impact on wildlife. Just think of the impact it has on humans.
Let's assume, for the moment, that it is a "good idea". How should it be implemented?
If there is to be only one satellite, then there are only two orbits that can work: GEO and a polar Molniya that has the satellite overhead between dusk and dawn. With more satellites more orbits can work, but let's assume one for now.
Let's figure out how big a mirror is needed. First, it will need to have at least some degree of focus to keep the spot size bounded. That is, a flat plane won't do. Let's compute the total light needed over a 10 km x 80 km ellipse, an area of about 2500 km^2. Given that 1 lux = 1 lumen / m^2, the lumens we need will be lux * area. Let's assume a partial moon (0.1 lux) is the minimum needed. Multiply those numbers, and that's 250,000,000 lumens. Let's say naked sunlight (allowing for atmospheric losses) is roughly 100,000 lux. Area = lumens/lux, yielding a mirror area of 2500 m^2.
And that's for a *perfect* mirror: No losses, with perfect focus. Assuming a circular mirror, that's a minimum diameter of about 60 m. That million-to-one illumination ratio really rocks. So, at a first glance, the optics alone says it's doable, at least near the minimums I've used. VERY doable!
A mirror in a Molniya orbit will have to deal with a rapidly/continuously varying sun angle every night, but there may be rotational tricks to deal with that, *if* we can manage to rapidly change the mirror shape. But it would rapidly complicate things, so let's set the Molniya orbit aside.
A mirror in GEO need only cope with seasonal variations. While we're at it, let's increase the mirror area by a factor of 10, so we'll be sure to have abundant margin to play with; let's say a nice, round 200 m diameter.
We already have communication satellites at GEO that stay aimed with precision for 15 years or more. Of course, they're aiming tiny antennas that are a millionth the size of our mirror, so we still must consider the aiming problem.
Satellites use aiming actuators for the antennas, and thrusters and gyros (torquers) for the satellite body, which combined yield good pointing precision. Our reflector won't have that luxury: The antenna will dwarf any satellite body, and will also have minimal rigidity: It really can't be aimed much at all, and even then not quickly.
To get some rigidity we can spin the mirror, which should also help with its shape, though that may not be needed. The total range of motion needed to track the sun matches the 23.5 degree tilt axis over a year, which is roughly 0.1 degree per day. (Well, OK, the total wobble is 23.5 degrees in each direction, but we only need to split the difference to bounce the sun toward the ground, which is 11.75 degrees, doubled, which gets us back to 23.5 degrees).
Next is the issue of aiming/pointing. Using gas or chemical thrusters alone may be a non-starter, including ion thrusters. But with a spinning disk, we really should be able to use precession. But precess against what?
Given the slow rate of angular motion, I suspect a 100-300 km long gravity tether should be able to provide enough restoring force to make the job manageable. The satellite body will then need only to slightly pivot the mirror relative to the tether, an extremely low-energy operation.
The satellite will still need an ion thruster to stay on-station (very gentle thrust). But even with that, our reflector satellite will be vastly simpler than a communications satellite, and perhaps about the same mass for an equivalent mission duration.
Oh, almost forgot: Let's put a small hole in the center of the mirror so light can reach some solar cells to power the satellite! No reactors or RTGs here.
I think that about does it, as an "educated guess". Total mass isn't really an issue: Some member of the Long March family will be able to loft it.
(Yes, yes, I know I haven't calculated either the atmospheric dispersion or the "f-number" of the optics. But I made the mirror 10x larger so I wouldn't have to!)
Me Chinese. Me play joke. Me go peepee in creimer's Coke.
With a few alternations, you could make it project ads across the entire city! Alternatively, they could make it look like a giant eyeball, so everyone knew they were being watched.
I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
Walking through the streets of SoHo in the rain
He was looking for a place called Lee Ho Fook's
Gonna get a big dish of beef chow mein
Back in the late 70s, the city of Chicago replaced all the mercury streetlamps with sodium vapor lights. It was sold as a way to improve visibility at night and make driving safer and everything safer.
They didn't expect it to completely alter the behavior of birds in the city, messing up their diurnal cycles and screwing with their reproduction. Also, it changed the city's character. Night time used to be this magical silvery place in Chicago. It was just beautiful and romantic. The streetlights were the color of a winter moon, and you could still see stars. After the sodium vapor lamps, it was like this phony daylight all the time and yellow and it's ugly as hell. Also, no more stars.
You can really fuck up artificial lighting. Maybe it's just because it was what I was used to, but if you see any old color photos of Chicago neighborhoods at night, you can really see the difference.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Wait. Those videos are edited??
Got to hand it to the Chinamen, they are world class champs and masters of pollution in all its forms.
Russians deployed some space mirrors before in their Znamya mission:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Znamya 2.5 had a bit of a tragic ending as the mirror got ripped by the antenna of the satellite that deployed it.
Signature deleted by lameness filter.
Regarding focusing: even with a perfectly shaped mirror, you can't circumvent the fact that the sun is not a point source. Sun diameter D=1.4e+9 m, sun distance L=1.5e+11 m, geostationary orbit distance R=3.6e+7 m. The spot at the earth surface will have a minimum diameter D R/L=340 km, for ideal optics. The claimed diameter of 10 to 80 km is physically impossible from geostationary orbit. They would need to use low-earth orbit, about 1000 km altitude, which would require multiple satellites to illuminate a single town throughout the night.
By the way, the difference between an ideal focusing mirror and a flat mirror is negligible for illumination purposes. For a 200 m diameter mirror, it would add another 0.2 km to the spot size if it's flat rather than paraboloid.
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
Those graphics don't create themselves. I thought the reference to Canadians with William Shatner as Captain Kirk on a Canadian stamp was a cute touch. Not too many people know that William Shatner was Canadian.
From the story, China's Clean Air Challenge: $3 Billion Air Pollution from Transport in Chengdu
Quotes:
1) "Economic loss from transport-related air pollution in Chengdu, China, was $3 billion in 2013, and that number is on the rise."
2) "Chengdu, the fourth largest city in China, has over 15 million residents and 4 million vehicles, with 27 percent of PM2.5 emissions coming from transport, increasing risks to public health, the environment and the economy."
....should shoot these down, as they are clearly a front for Choiyna's nuclear weapons defence system.
Looks like China tries most scifi weapons
http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/Icarus
Put it in geostationary orbit. Not difficult to focus a light beam to within a few hundred meters.
And maybe not even need many batteries as the satellite is normally outside earth's shadow.
But still a crazy idea.
"Those graphics don't create themselves. "
I thought you just used whatever templates are in the "examples" folder.
"Not too many people know that William Shatner was Canadian."
No, it is highly secret. Good thing creimer and his videos with one or two views are there to inform us of these timely subjects.
I dont want to live under a communist Moon, errm whatever, see potatoes ure falling behind again
Yay, more sunlight to heat the Earth! What could possibly go wrong?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Good thing creimer and his videos with one or two views are there to inform us of these timely subjects.
Creimer has three videos in single digit views that are relatively new. The majority of his videos have double or triple digit views. Seven videos has 500+ views, which is significant since 60% of YouTube videos never get 500 views
"which is significant since 60% of YouTube videos never get 500 views"
This is only significant if this was creimer's goal. creimer's goal was to make millions for retirement. creimer failed to provide a reference for his 60% figure. creimer also needs to stop talking about himself in the third person: we all know it's you.
creimer is a fool who spends amazing amounts of energy at failing, while overlooking the winning solutions like getting his certification, or working on those parts of creimer's personality which are defective.
Like creimer's coping strategy to redefine his past when his present failures prevent creimer from getting the results creimer wanted.
They are finally building Elysium!
Now with extra light at night, perhaps they will need dusk/night during the day. Someone get in contact with Mr. Burns. We need his sun blocking device! You'll just have to pay his nuclear power bills.
No foresight before, and no empathy after.
We're watching you.
That's no moon....
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
creimer is a fool who spends amazing amounts of energy at failing
If you want to get better at something, you need to fail and fail fast. Most people get hung up on being perfect that they never get better at anything. Creimer is a failure but he is getting better at making videos. Your constant bitching on Slashdot won't change that.
Think of the positives of 24/7 light, it won't matter anymore if you work 1st, 2nd, or 3rd shift, spread the workload from 8 hours a day to 24 and no more morning and evening rush hour. Electricity will be saved with no more streetlights. Cars will save on gas with no more headlights. Accidents of all types will go down. Crime will go down. The economy will improve now that you can go about your normal business / entertainment / etc activities at 4 AM. Depression will go away. Life expectancy will rise by 7.3 years on average. With all these improvements the deficit will go away and the national debt will be reduced to zero in under 10 years, (8.5 if everything goes as planned). What comes out at night anyway? Bats - RABIES. Racoons - RABIES. Opossum - UGLY. Look at all the bugs around a street light, that's the real Hitler of the night.
Barak Obama likes little boys, and everyone knows it.
that's ridiculous, why did he have 2 girls then ?
Creimer is a failure but he is getting better at making videos.
His thumbnails are pretty good.
Yeah, the ~0.5 degree angular width of the sun is certainly an issue, as is the small target size. Fortunately it's one that can be mitigated by adding complexity and reducing efficiency, such as by using 3 reflective surfaces and/or collimation. The use of a long gravity tether in GEO would permit multiple annular reflectors to be kept in tight alignment. Modeling the positioning stability of such a system is difficult, but it's bounded, so the system should be controllable.
Even with a full Goldberg (ridiculously complex) implementation, there would be significant spill-over, a new star in the sky.
"... the light of the satellite is similar to a dusk-like glow, so it should not affect animals' routines..."
I'm pretty sure animals that wait for night don't start until AFTER dusk. If it's always dusk, then...?
Well, good news for crepuscular animals, then, though they may get tired from being active for 12 hours instead of 30 minutes...
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Fuck you chris. A post about you. You plug your channel that nobody but your trolls care about and then finish up with the best bit of non-content you can muster
"YouTube shut down to purge a video of something hitting the Moon. The Chinese, anyone?"
This is news for nerds and yet you make comments for morons. We're not little kids we don't care about talking heads on youtube.
Too damn much light pollution now! I don't live in a "big" city...less than 200,000 but, the only stars you see at night are Venus & Mars. My parents live about 125 miles away in a small town of 4,000. Largest city of 50k is 22 miles away. Once, I took my parents dog after dark, out to do its business and just stared up at the sky. My dad looked out and came outside and said what are you looking at? I said the stars...you could actually see the milky way. He said so? I said in a city, you are lucky to see 1 or 2 stars because of light pollution.
Nice industry parroting. You'l like Jeff Bezos failing fast. Except instead of making amazon you're like what jeff bezos would be if he quit Princeton to work on his public access tv show.
An unproductive loser who could be doing better.
We're not little kids we don't care about talking heads on youtube.
That's right! We want our fucking cat videos NOW!
As a fellow christorian I think that in chris's mind whatever he's doing at the moment represents a "new long tail revenue stream" and when it doesn't work out he's failing fast. We're talking about a 400 pound dude who thinks he's going to be riding public transit to his temp job every day for infinity. So if he makes even 1 dollar every ten years, in Chris's mind he's made infinity dollars
He once said he wanted 30 revenue streams. I wish we could shrink chris down to a toddler, put him in a tiny suit and give him the most powerful computer V-Tech ever made the dual 486:
https://books.google.com.ly/books?id=E9TvMcu1mIwC&lpg=PA346&ots=t8v8d3K4Ed&dq=vtech%20dual%20486&pg=PA346#v=onepage&q=vtech%20dual%20486&f=false
It would be cute
Having a brightly lit night will be not good for animals and plants which use the darkness to function or rest. The environmental devestation the Chinese have caused is horrendous. Now all want to move to the US as "The air is so clean in America". Well we(Americans) fought to protect our air and water.
To lure little boys, so he can get plenty of them!
Is not for safety this is for better interference and destruction of freedoms. And the light there is no safety because everyone can see you the target you. While in the dark nobody can see you to Target you in the first place. The darkness provides important refuge and safety from assailants and unsavory characters
This reminds me of Dr Evil's death ray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMXYHbUyd8
Sounds like the lazer platform from Die Another Day.
Depending on the clouds, most of the light would be reflected back to outer space.
You think it was bad when Suki took over the paint bots, just wait until some kid gets control of the satellite and realizes it's the ultimate magnifying glass and anthill situation.
Might it be that someone's using "we need to light Chinese cities" as an smokescreen to get the funding to build a solar sail ship?
I think you misunderstood me. It is optically impossible to image an extended light source onto a point, no matter how many fancy lens and mirror elements you combine.
"[Etendue] is the product of the area of the source and the solid angle that the system's entrance pupil subtends as seen from the source. (...) Etendue is important because it never decreases in any optical system where optical power is conserved. A perfect optical system produces an image with the same etendue as the source." - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Extra mirror elements would allow you to image sun spots and coronal discharge onto the earth's surface with low aberrations, but that's not what you'd use this system for; it would actually be undesirable if a car driver suddenly finds themselves in the dark as they enter a sun spot.
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
Moths be going crazy...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Cat videos are probably the safest, healthiest way for adults to deal with their daily stress.
Only kids and idiots care what random people are uploading to youtube.
Seriously, we should have several in GEO, but then be able to rotate them with the earth rotation. In particular, use these for disaster areas. This will allow for rescue crews to not have to bring in massive amounts of lights, generators, and fuel. This would save a LOT of lives.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I hope they have a huge bug zapper for all the bugs it will attact.
But they'd better fear the monkeys...
An artificial moon that shines continuously would like really mess up migration patterns of birds and insects. This has already been proven by city lights. Let's screw up nature some more!
If these moons were refocused and re-aimed, could they not be used as terrestrial weapons?