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3D Printers Have 'Fingerprints', a Discovery That Could Help Trace 3D-Printed Guns: Study (sciencedaily.com)

Like fingerprints, no 3D printer is exactly the same. That's the takeaway from a new University at Buffalo-led study that describes what's believed to be the first accurate method for tracing a 3D-printed object to the machine it came from. From the study: The advancement, which the research team calls "PrinTracker," could ultimately help law enforcement and intelligence agencies track the origin of 3D-printed guns, counterfeit products and other goods. "3D printing has many wonderful uses, but it's also a counterfeiter's dream. Even more concerning, it has the potential to make firearms more readily available to people who are not allowed to possess them," says the study's lead author Wenyao Xu, PhD, associate professor of computer science and engineering in UB's School of Engineering and Applied Sciences.

[...] To understand the method, it's helpful to know how 3D printers work. Like a common inkjet printer, 3D printers move back-and-forth while "printing" an object. Instead of ink, a nozzle discharges a filament, such as plastic, in layers until a three-dimensional object forms. Each layer of a 3D-printed object contains tiny wrinkles -- usually measured in submillimeters -- called in-fill patterns. These patterns are supposed to be uniform. However, the printer's model type, filament, nozzle size and other factors cause slight imperfections in the patterns. The result is an object that does not match its design plan.

139 comments

  1. Easy work-around by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Clean the inside of the nozzle with a metal brush after each print. The micro-scratches it creates should throw it off enough that you can't ID it.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Easy work-around by oic0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or throw the nozzle away after each one, they're dirt cheap. While youre at it, adjust the acceleration settings to make sure they dont try to trace you from the wobble.... Not that it matters. The things are terrible guns lol. A mini crossbow from amazon is probably better.

    2. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      I still fail to see why anyone would want a 3D printed barrel (unless it came out of one of those machines the aerospace company uses that made strong metal parts)

      rifling a barrel isn't hard, you can buy the broach or button online legally. just like you can make a gun legally in these United States.

      A 3D printed receiver I could see being useful...

    3. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 0

      you can buy a serviceable gun for less than $150 in USA. or used less than $50. why anyone would bother with 3D printed flimsy crap is beyond me.

      yes there are 3D "printing" systems that can make a substantial gun, you'll pay more than a few houses in price for 'em.... they're 3D printing turbines and stuff with those but that's not hobbyist territory

    4. Re:Easy work-around by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because it makes the gun grabbers have kittens, making them look even stupider.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:Easy work-around by rogoshen1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The 'threat' of printed guns is being trotted out entirely for political purposes. It's not a real, credible threat or risk to anyone.

      Basically the gun-control folks are trying to come up with a new bogeyman to further their agenda.

      OR its a ploy by the big machining lobby to eventually ban personal ownership of CNC machines to further solidify their market position.

      See; first they trump up the possibility of every tom, dick and harry (who are most likely white supremacists living in an anti-government compound somewhere in eastern Oregon) to manufacture their own weapons. So, the government must step in and do the reasonable thing to protect the populace: Ban distribution of blueprints for these nefarious plastic weapons; and as a corollary -- ban 3d printers. As it was was already proven, we'd have an influx of TERRIBLY LETHAL ASSAULT style GUNS on our streets without these safeguards.

      Then, with the public's eye thusly captivated, the machining lobby will strike, achieving their ultimate aim! Which goes something like:

      "But wait! If they can manufacture guns via 3d printers, SURELY they can manufacture guns very simply using decades old machinery and steel. These weapons might just be even more potent and lethal than the extruded plastic ones we were just saved from!"

    6. Re:Easy work-around by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Clean the inside of the nozzle with a metal brush after each print. The micro-scratches it creates should throw it off enough that you can't ID it.

      The filament is getting melted as it passes through the nozzle. Liquid is being deposited, ideally at just the right temperature to fuse with the surrounding material yet also to solidify quickly. But alignment of one layer to the next and the precise fusion with the lower materials (according to TFS) are still traceable from printer to printer. However, those details are easily altered. They are the combination of the printer's physical characteristics, and the setup used. They will differ for different types of filament, and different environmental conditions, but you could also vary them deliberately. Since most printers seem to auto-level these days, you could go so far as to tamper with the physical alignment between prints. And obviously, you could make slight changes to the feed rate and temperatures which would also change the fingerprint.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Maybe there really is something to vaccines causing austism. The stupid in this post is off the charts.

    8. Re:Easy work-around by DaHat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because you don't understand the underlying issue at hand.

      This is the best write-up I've seen as to the reasoning: https://www.wired.com/story/de...

    9. Re:Easy work-around by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Nope, they help demonstrate the issues with federal gun control laws: https://www.wired.com/story/de...

    10. Re:Easy work-around by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Rifling a barrel is hard, if you're a terrorist and you care more about covering the money trail than surviving the attack.

      Milling is fairly easy, and yet the machines are big, make a lot of noise, and can be difficult to purchase in person using cash without looking suspicious.

      Also, what makes you think they even care if it is rifled?

      Buying stuff online creates a paper trail; that's fine for people who are just interested in their Freeze Peach, but it is a bigger issue for terrorists.

      Too many assumptions combined to make any sort of picture that has value.

    11. Re:Easy work-around by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Clean the inside of the nozzle with a metal brush after each print. The micro-scratches it creates should throw it off enough that you can't ID it.

      OK, now what about the scratches and differences on the gear that shoves the filament into the nozzle? Also, if you're scratching it up enough to change the imprint, you're going through a lot of nozzles! You could also just change nozzles more often.

      It might not help as much as you think, because this is a "fingerprint" in the sense that anything else that is 1-in-10 is a "fingerprint." As in, nothing at all like the uniqueness of an actual fingerprint! Or for example, most ink printers print a difficult-to-see fingerprint in the margin with the printers serial number. This is nothing like that. They just want it to sound the same.

    12. Re:Easy work-around by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      "Melted," sortof, but maybe really only softened.

    13. Re:Easy work-around by zlives · · Score: 1

      you still can't sue a gun "manufacturer"/printer though... so who cares if it is a known brand...

    14. Re:Easy work-around by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      You can sue any gun manufacturer that produces faulty guns. A gun that actually hits the target it is pointed at is not faulty; that is the definition of functioning properly.

    15. Re:Easy work-around by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      That wired article is ridiculously flawed. One of the more glaring errors is when it states that an AR-15 lower "encases the rifle's action." That is a completely false statement. The lower holds the trigger assembly. The buttstock is attached to the lower. The upper encases the bolt and the barrel is mounted onto the upper. Most people are most worried about what is in the upper because everything that actually contacts the bullet or casing (therefore able to leave marks) is in the upper.

    16. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we all know tomorrow's consumer tools will never get as good as yesterday's industrial tools...at half the price. Never.

    17. Re:Easy work-around by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Given that the "successful" terrorists are sponsored by some government or another, exactly how does the civilian market for weapons actually affect their ability to obtain weapons?

    18. Re:Easy work-around by harrkev · · Score: 3, Informative

      You have obviously never been to a gun show. With a pocket full of cash, you can easily get everything that isn't a legal gun without any paperwork at all. Uppers, lower parts kits, sights, furniture, etc. is all easily available.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    19. Re:Easy work-around by infolation · · Score: 2

      That's assuming 3D printers don't have an equivalent of the machine identification code that laser and inkjet printers have.

    20. Re:Easy work-around by blindseer · · Score: 0

      Milling is fairly easy,

      True.

      and yet the machines are big,

      A quick look online tells me a mill capable of producing firearm parts would weigh about 150 pounds, and not be much bigger than a common kitchen stove, dishwasher, or perhaps refrigerator. Even if I'm off a bit on the size and weight there's plenty of very capable mills small and light enough that someone with a pickup truck and 3 or 4 guys can move with little difficulty.

      make a lot of noise,

      Not really. I've seen them in operation and they don't make much more noise than other typical household appliances. Cheap dishwashers make more noise.

      and can be difficult to purchase in person using cash without looking suspicious.

      I don't know about that. Depending on the neighborhood there can be lots of people that buy $1000 products with cash, and perhaps much more than $1000. It might raise suspicions but it can be easily dismissed with a comment on being paid for a job with cash and a desire to come home with a new tool instead of making the trip to a bank. This would be especially less suspicious if buying used, where the sale is "as is" and no warranty would be assumed. People like to buy new with a credit card or check as it leaves a paper trail to verify date of purchase and such to make such claims, if there is no warranty then such desires go out the window.

      I've seen "grey market" home improvement projects done where the people involved want to avoid the hassle of permits for putting in kitchen cabinets or something equally trivial. By paying for the work in cash there's the "discount" of keeping everything off the books and no tax man needs to know anything. This is further kept off the books with a tool coming home instead of an unexplained deposit in a bank account. A mill has lots of uses and so buying one would raise no more suspicions than purchasing a table saw or dust collector with cash. The people selling the tools know the deal here and they will over time see enough of this happening that they will know that things might not always be totally kosher on where the money came from but there's not going to be enough to make a big deal out of it.

      Also, what makes you think they even care if it is rifled?

      I'm pretty sure the lack of rifling is a feature, not a bug. Different manufacturers use different kinds of rifling, so if the projectile survives impact well enough that the rifling is even partially intact then the investigators can track things back to certain makes and models. Having a complete lack of rifling means leaving less evidence to work with.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    21. Re:Easy work-around by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Because you don't understand the underlying issue at hand.

      This is the best write-up I've seen as to the reasoning: https://www.wired.com/story/de...

      And now you understand even less.

      Anyone can build their own unregistered fire arm right now. They don't even have to put a serial number on it, if they have no intention of selling it.

      As to building a lowcost cheap gun, anyone who has a pair of hands and some basic plumbing equipment can do it any time they like.

      Are you going to require a license to have a pipe wrench, to buy a length of pipe, a nail ?

    22. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the more glaring errors is when it states that an AR-15 lower "encases the rifle's action."

      The way I read that, Wired wasn't saying that Wired thinks that, Wired was saying that that is the logic that bureaucrats used.

      I could be wrong, but that is how it sounded to me.

    23. Re:Easy work-around by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Good article, thanks. I've added it to my list of reference articles so that I hopefully remember to refer people to it who think that the "3D printed gun" debate has anything to do with 3D printing.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    24. Re:Easy work-around by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >A 3D printed receiver I could see being useful...

      Exactly. And that's the point. A fully 3D printed gun is just a media novelty to get people talking.

      The key however, is that the lower receiver, just a frame that holds together some of the key bits that do the actual work, and gets a serial number, is the *only* piece of a modern, modular gun, that is legally considered a gun. Everything else can be bought at any physical or online store with no more regulation than for cabinet hinges.

      3D print the lower receiver, and you've got yourself everything you need for a modern LEGO gun. Heck, you don't even need the printer - you can buy 80% complete pre-milled lowers that you can finish yourself, complete with jigs. Also not legally considered a gun (that doesn't kick in until you reach 81% complete).

      As posted above by another:
      https://www.wired.com/story/de...

      So, really, this article is about trying to trace whoever printed that cache of black-market 3D-printed lower receivers you just confiscated.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    25. Re:Easy work-around by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter anyway; it is not illegal to make your own firearm in the first place. Who cares if they can ID where it comes from, it's not a crime to make a firearm for personal use.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    26. Re:Easy work-around by N_Piper · · Score: 1

      I don't know, you look pretty dumb to me, parading around with your milled aluminum AR-15 lower receiver and bump stock shouting "FREEDOM!" while defense contractors fill contracts for equipment worth billions per piece.
      The entire f-ing point of the well organised militia bit was to keep the public in line with the military, in some meaningful way, to prevent a takeover.
      I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the ship sailed A LO~ONG time ago on that one, I mean, unless you can 3D print up some tank busting shaped charges and a surface-to-air missile or twelve.
      So what do you say, has your gun helped you prevent any onerous taxes on the middle and lower classes or prevented the handing of more privilege to a ruling oligarchy?
      It hasn't?!
      The people who got your vote because of their stances on gun control and "Big Government" were just as bad as the last batch?!
      Well then sit down and shut up until you have something useful to contribute.

    27. Re:Easy work-around by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Except anyone with a couple hundred bucks and a few months to learn can currently buy the tools to make a halfway decent gun from a block of metal.

    28. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically the gun-control folks are trying to come up with a new bogeyman to further their agenda.

      It's not strictly gun control folks per-se, it's partly Hollywood, especially B list writers and directors, with a double dose of PC to the max politicians mixed in. Really, look at every B movie over the last decade. The bad guy is almost always a white supremacist, nazi, etc, or if not a distinct bad guy, then some white supremacy or nazi theme is applied. And for politicians, back in 2009, Janet Napolitano denied that there was any violence at the Mexican border (she's wrong to the point of being stupid) while at the same time she claimed that white supremacists were the biggest domestic terrorism threat, being a powder keg ready to explode, and all it's missing is a match. Keep in mind, that this was at a time when the KKK was whining because their numbers were falling because they were struggling to recruit people to join (that all changed once Hillary Clinton gave the alt-right, and its leaders, mass media attention -- before that, they were practically unheard of.)

    29. Re:Easy work-around by gweihir · · Score: 1

      This is a wholly artificial panic. Tells you some people have something rather bad to hide and hence they are hyping this.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    30. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      nothing enlightening there, people could make guns before, they can still make guns. They can chose to sell or use them illegally. people can make shitty guns with 3D printing, or nice ones that cost less money without 3D printing. for added fun they can sound suppress those guns, legally (pay the tax stamp) or illegally (don't pay and/or sell the thing illegally).

      no new issues in play.

    31. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      even funnier that article talking about "guns into code".... a drawing of gun plans does that too.

    32. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Throw away the filament you used to "counterfeit" your "gun".

      The author forgot to remind us to think of the children.

    33. Re:Easy work-around by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Yep, gun grabbers in general think they are clever for coming up with the idea "we wouldn't have gun crime if there were no guns"

      Once they get that i'm special feeling, there's no pointing out to them we would have to repeal most of civilization to make that happen

    34. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, printed explosives are extremely high-tech and powerful... similarly, "tank busting" explosives can be made with a milled copper plate, a coffee can, and some home-made ANFO.

      Of course, that ignores the giant flaw in your logic. You are suggesting that the unorganized militia cannot compete with the standing army because they don't have as good weapons... and use that as a reason to prevent the unorganized militia from owning those weapons!

      If private individuals were allowed to own state-of-the-art warships and artillery - like they were in 1776 - you'd see a lot more parity in firepower.

    35. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tracking the rifling marks from a bullet back to a gun is a myth - it is nearly impossible.
      First, the bullets rarely survive undamaged enough to have clear rifling marks.
      Second, the rifling in the barrel changes a little with every shot fired. Even 10 shots fired from a gun after the "recovered" bullet was fired can change the rifling enough to produce a different pattern.

      Finally, the one thing you CAN do is find out what brand of gun was likely the firing weapon. Different brands of guns use different numbers of lands and grooves, with different chirality, and different twists. If you can match those, you can (maybe) ID a brand... but not a specific gun.

    36. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to make a useful gun (i.e. capable of hitting a target you aim at), you want a rifled barrel. Otherwise the bullet will tumble and go off in random directions.

      And the mill you want to use probably weighs 1-2 tons, runs on 3-phase power, and costs thousands of dollars used. Maybe a skilled gunsmith can use a 150 pound machine tool to make a useful firearm, but I wouldn't be able to.

      dom

    37. Re: Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, it is again assumed that 100% of the citizens would fight against the army.

      In such scenario, it's your gun loving cocitizen, who also has weapons, the one shooting you down, even before the army arrives

    38. Re:Easy work-around by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Finally, the one thing you CAN do is find out what brand of gun was likely the firing weapon. Different brands of guns use different numbers of lands and grooves, with different chirality, and different twists. If you can match those, you can (maybe) ID a brand... but not a specific gun.

      Isn't that what I said? I'm pretty sure that's what I said. You'll get at best a make and model, not a specific firearm, but even that much information can say a lot if there's some other information to go with it.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    39. Re:Easy work-around by blindseer · · Score: 1

      If you want to make a useful gun (i.e. capable of hitting a target you aim at), you want a rifled barrel. Otherwise the bullet will tumble and go off in random directions.

      If your goal is to cause death and panic in a large crowd then I can imagine such loss of accuracy is tolerable. This would be especially true if it means lowering the chances of being caught. Another reason one might not be concerned about accuracy is if the target is so close that there is no possibility of missing. If you are having a gunfight in an elevator then the lack of rifling on the barrel of your pistol is not going to matter.

      And the mill you want to use probably weighs 1-2 tons, runs on 3-phase power, and costs thousands of dollars used. Maybe a skilled gunsmith can use a 150 pound machine tool to make a useful firearm, but I wouldn't be able to.

      That might be true if your concern is mass production. For someone that just wants to make one rifle, to perhaps a dozen or so, for the purposes of keeping things on the down low then a 150 pound mill will do fine. It will certainly take more time and patience but I'm not sure it would necessarily take any more skill.

      Even so, let's assume someone wants to take it up a notch or two. There's still some very nice milling machines that are new for under $3000 that are very capable, with used mills bringing prices down or capability up. A split phase 240 volt circuit that would be common in garages and sheds for things like hobby welders, EV chargers, or other such things, could get someone a 5 HP motor on the mill easily. Getting even a 15HP mill would not be all that out of the ordinary for a serious hobbyist or light industrial shop, and still not need 3 phase service. This would be not much larger than what I described before, about the size of a kitchen refrigerator. It might be far heavier but still in the range that it could be moved by a common pickup truck and a few strong guys to lift into place. Even if this is heavier than what a bunch of guys can lift off a truck there's options. People move heavy stuff all the time, renting a tractor or forklift for moving a mill off a truck and into a workshop won't be too difficult or raise suspicions.

      There's enough of these mills floating about that they can be picked up relatively cheaply, that owning one is not going to be all that suspicious, and not need crazy wiring or make crazy noise to operate.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    40. Re:Easy work-around by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The 'threat' of printed guns is being trotted out entirely for political purposes. It's not a real, credible threat or risk to anyone.

      Not yet. But the printers keep getting better and cheaper, and you have to assume that we are headed towards something like a Star Trek replicator where it just makes arbitrary stuff for you.

      Same thing happened with 2D printers. Once colour printing became affordable there was a possibility of printing things like money. Photoshop has code that detects money and stops you editing/printing it, for example. Laser printers put hidden yellow dots on the page so it can be traced.

      I'm not saying those are good things, what I'm saying is that some regulation is inevitable and it's better that we discuss it like adults and find some kind of compromise that allows us to own high end 3D printers.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    41. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The stupid in this post is off the charts.

      It is rare for someone to summarize their own post so eloquently.

    42. Re: Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What crazy ass world do you live in? Onorius taxes on the poor? Almost half of America contributes nothing or less to the Federal Budget. Oppression? Yeah, no one is allowed to criticize our President, or call his kids 10 year old son a rapist, his wife a whore or pose for pictures with his decapitated head. The Federist papers document exactly what was intended at the time. Million dollar a shot weapons are useless against millions of armed individuals. 2nd is for overthrowing a corrupt government - and that is why we donâ(TM)t have a corrupt government.

    43. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You both should really read the Wired article till the end.

    44. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "no new issues in play."

      What about the rapidly evolving basis of the legal definition of a gun.

    45. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and it doesn't change the point of the article either way.

      I get the impression some people are assuming it's a "gun grabber" motivated story so they're looking for holes and missing the point.

    46. Re: Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Close but not the nozzle. All 3d printers have some tolerance they are built in kod with, so its this small but of variation in the mechanical system that introduces some minute degree of wobble layed down plastic. I can see how given enough analysis you may see a trend in prints from a single printer but heres the catch: adjusting the printer will change future prints and prevent identifying the prints.

    47. Re:Easy work-around by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      And we all know tomorrow's consumer tools will never get as good as yesterday's industrial tools...at half the price. Never.

      That's kindof the point. It's easier to fight and win this battle now while 3D printers still suck at printing guns. It would be much harder to win this battle after 3D printers advanced to the point of being able to print high quality guns.

    48. Re:Easy work-around by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      If private individuals were allowed to own state-of-the-art warships and artillery - like they were in 1776 - you'd see a lot more parity in firepower.

      This stopped being feasible the minute we started having weapons that contained multiple man-years in them. A gun can be made by a single individual in less than a year. i.e. less than one manhour-year. On cost alone, a million dollar weapon takes 10-20 manhour-years of middle class salary. We now have weapons that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and tens of millions to produce and thousands of dollars per hour to even operate. These type of weapons are only possible when you pool the labor from thousands of people which is only possible for governments and large corporations.

    49. Re:Easy work-around by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

      Why bother? They would need to know it was you who did it, in order to seize your printer.

    50. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I did, nothing new there. no new issues are introduced with 3D printed guns and nothing the Federal Government is doing wrong now wasn't also done decades ago.

    51. Re:Easy work-around by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Again, you are missing the point. It's not that 3d printed guns introduce a never before seen issue, they greatly lower the bar on a long standing one. Yes, it's long been legally and technically possible to build a functioning firearm at home... now it is extra easy, and suddenly very apparent to those who didn't know it up until recently... and it is those very same "OMG! this can't/shouldn't be legal!" folks who are the ones demanding new legislation to 'correct' things which were not previously wrong... as far as they knew.

    52. Re:Easy work-around by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Thanks for confirming you didn't read the article.

    53. Re:Easy work-around by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Also to you.. thank you for confirming you didn't read or understand the article.

    54. Re:Easy work-around by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      an inadequate and very flimsy firearm can be 3D printed at great expense at home on a printer costing thousands of dollars. pretty high bar there since almost all criminals that won't buy a cheap gun have the printer price even further out of reach. it is faster, cheaper and safer to make one out of metal. don't even need to rifle a barrel, just make a slug shotgun.

    55. Re:Easy work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do that at a regular gun store too.

    56. Re:Easy work-around by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      The article you quote only references 3D printing in passing, on it's way to a larger debate regarding federal gun legislation.
      I would, however, be interested in seeing crime statistics on these 80% guns versus simple "I bought it stolen from a guy out of his trunk" . I'm fairly certain most people going the 80% route are hobbyists,and aren't running around shooting people.

    57. Re:Easy work-around by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Well hell, if that's your argument, we should ban personal deflector shields.

    58. Re:Easy work-around by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      "broad unsupported claim" followed by "whudabut."

      You don't even seem to understand the concept that places exist, on planet earth, and that the places are not all in the same place. So a government having weapons, does not automatically teleport those weapons under the beds of their foreign agents, to use untraced. Instead they have to transport them around, without knowing if they've been tracked or not. So even hostile governments don't normally do it that way. Instead they send money, which is used to attempt to buy weapons locally. Or in the case of explosives, they often send a large amount of money through a network of agents other countries, to eventually get a smaller amount of money into the target country undetected, and then they use that money to rent property and buy equipment to make the explosives. Sometimes that works, sometimes they accidentally blow themselves up just trying to make the explosives. But still, it is more effective than if they just hand over some weapons from their national arsenal as if there were no counter-terrorism efforts being made by other countries. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      The simple truth is that the people actually engaging directly in the final stage of the attack are often intended not to survive the attack, but the people who organized it try really hard to keep their involvement secret. So a sucky weapon that risks injury to the attacker isn't really even relevant to the legitimate interests involved.

      Facts don't care about Freeze Peaches or people's cold dead hands, or any of that sort of stuff. What the rules should be is a totally different matter than what people's concerns actually are, or what the known dangers or uses of a technology are.

    59. Re:Easy work-around by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't know if I had been to a gun show or not from what I said, you're just spewing.

      Facts don't change depending one your policy opinions.

      The whudubut you point at doesn't even have the implications you think it does. For one thing, what if most gun shows are monitored by the government and foreigners who attend are likely under surveillance? It isn't hard to imagine reasonably possible circumstances that would mitigate the threat you identified, but not the one under discussion here. But regardless, so what? If gunshows have some sort of regulatory loophole, that does not imply that all regulation is therefore useless, or that all other regulation would disappear, or that other concerns would disappear, or that policy discussion would somehow stop.

      My assumption is you were triggered by the words "freeze peach."

      Legitimate concerns are not undermined by additional concerns, or by concluding that you're against taking any action.

    60. Re:Easy work-around by harrkev · · Score: 1

      For one thing, what if most gun shows are monitored by the government and foreigners who attend are likely under surveillance?

      Yeah, "what if." What if a meteorite hit you on the head and kills you? Life is too short to be worried about "what if."

      Park several blocks away and walk there. On the way back, take public transportation to a random mall. Go into the bathroom and change clothes. If you are that paranoid, there are things that you can do.

      Also, how is the government supposed to know that you are a foreigner? Brown skin? Wearing a turban? Seriously, if you are THAT much of a threat that the government follows you full time, then don't break the law. But the government is not going to know the immigration status of every random person that walks into a building.

      If gunshows have some sort of regulatory loophole, that does not imply that all regulation is therefore useless

      You miss the entire point of laws. Laws prescribe what is considered bad, and provides a punishment for doing those bad things. Laws do not stop crime, they just tell you what the punishment is. The punishment is supposed to make you not want to do those things.

      However, if you intend to die in the act of your crime, then what punishment would deter you?

      Drinking, by itself, is generally OK. Driving is OK. They are only bad when you combine the two. But banning cars or alcohol is not the solution to drunk driving. Similarly, making guns illegal won't stop crime. Gun ownership, by itself, does not hurt anybody. It is only bad when people USE a gun in the wrong manner. Gun laws only affect those honest people who obey the law. I would think that would be common sense, but I guess it isn't so common.

      I should point out that there are approximately 300,000,000 guns in the US. Fewer than one out of every 30,000 guns is used in a murder every year. The average car is more dangerous than the average gun.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  2. Oh noes by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even more concerning, it has the potential to make firearms more readily available to people who are not allowed to possess them

    So does the plumbing section at Home Depot. Faster and cheaper than 3D printing as well. 3D printed guns are really only proof of concept to demonstrate how stupid gun control laws are. Anyone actually needing one can make a zip gun that has an order of magnitude lower probability of blowing up from a scrap pile.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Oh noes by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      Try to concealed carry it though.

    2. Re:Oh noes by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try to concealed carry it though.

      No 3D plastic printed gun that won't blow up in your face is smaller or more suitable to CC than is a brick. Because ... plastic. Hardware store parts include things like ... actual metal. A reliable, lethal one can be home-brewed and still remain much smaller and easier to conceal. Or, the criminally minded person who clearly doesn't mind breaking laws anyway could just you know, buy a gun. Legally or otherwise, as both are readily available to criminals who are willing to lie or otherwise do illegal things.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Oh noes by dknj · · Score: 1

      The only thing you missed is that plastic is not detected by metal detectors and some x-ray machines.

      Likewise a tiny zipgun could make it past a security checkpoint just the same, but plastic lowers your detection threshold.

    4. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.

      Benjamin: Yes, sir.

      Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?

      Benjamin: Yes, I am.

      Mr. McGuire: Plastics.

      Benjamin: Exactly how do you mean?

      Mr. McGuire: There's a great future in plastics. Think about it. Will you think about it?"

      The Graduate (1967)

    5. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you shoot plastic ammo too, Einstein-san. And you also forgot about Titanium and Aluminum...

    6. Re:Oh noes by Zorro · · Score: 1

      Two pieces of pipe and a nail and you can create a shotgun that can cut anyone in half.

      Cost $10. Time to construct an hour or so.

    7. Re:Oh noes by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      As if a known criminal dealing in black market guns is going to run NICS checks on his customers!

      As long as your universe includes only law abiding purchasers and law abiding sellers, then universal background checks are universal. As soon as you are willing to admit that criminals are people who knowingly violate the law, then universal background checks can be seen for what they really are: a hindrance to the legal purchase of a legal firearm. They have zero effect on the illegal sales of firearms.

    8. Re:Oh noes by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Two pieces of pipe and a nail and you can create a shotgun that can cut anyone in half.

      Or blow a hole through "bullet proof" glass.

      Most windows at banks and drug stores will be rated to hold up to handguns and small rifles. A 12 gauge slug carries a lot of energy in a small enough area to punch a hole in such glass. There's enough YouTube videos on this to prove it to yourself. Depending on the armored car or such they might be rated to take a .50 BMG and therefore shrug off a shot from a 12 gauge.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    9. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This argument was tried with the Glock "plastic gun" hysteria of the 90s. The 3D-printed "guns" have certain parts that are metal....not to mention the ammunition. If not, then they're more like a "gun" than a bomb.

      Guns are a 600 year-old idea, very easy to fashion and not likely to disappear for the rest of the existence of the human race. It's probably easier to eradicate the idea of the wheel from the minds of humankind.

    10. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The United States Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 (18 U.S.C. 922(p)) makes it illegal to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm that is not as detectable by walk-through metal detection as a security exemplar containing 3.7 oz (105 g) of steel, or any firearm with major components that do not generate an accurate image before standard airport imaging technology.

      I mean, sure, you could make a fully plastic gun that can't be detected by metal detectors if you don't particularly care about the consequences if security does manage to find it, but you're unequivocally abandoning any pretense of legality in doing so.

    11. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meant to say "more like a bomb than a gun"...

    12. Re:Oh noes by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Looks easier than a revolver

      https://www.thefirearmblog.com...

    13. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as you are willing to admit that criminals are people who knowingly violate the law, then universal background checks can be seen for what they really are: a hindrance to the legal purchase of a legal firearm. They have zero effect on the illegal sales of firearms.

      Yes, but not all criminals are the same.

      Some may not realize they're not allowed to own a gun. They get tagged with some felony, ten or twenty years go by, the neighborhood they live in goes bad, so they decide to buy a gun. The background check catches this case.

      Some may know they can't own a gun, but are too lazy to find/use a black market connection. So they go to the gun store and hope their name was left off the list. The background check catches this case.

      Yeah, nobody likes waiting in line at the DMV to re-up on their license, license plate, etc.
      It doesn't mean we should hand out licenses to anybody who shows up at the counter.

    14. Re:Oh noes by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Yes, but not all criminals are the same.

      Um, okay. Let's go with this and see where it takes us.

      Some may not realize they're not allowed to own a gun. They get tagged with some felony, ten or twenty years go by, the neighborhood they live in goes bad, so they decide to buy a gun. The background check catches this case.

      How would there be any ambiguity on this? Did the person happen to forget the 12 months minimum they spent in prison?

      I have an idea on how to clear this up, anyone declared unfit to own a firearm should be held in a prison or other confinement. This is what is going to have to happen at some point if the threats of 3D printed firearms come true. Anyone with enough resources to obtain a big screen TV will be able to obtain a machine capable of producing multiple firearms. If you want to keep such people from getting a firearm then keep them confined.

      I used to think this idea of having a list of "prohibited persons" was a good idea, now it seems rather silly. It's not like people need a gun to do harm to another. This is especially true if the criminal never used a firearm in the first place to get on this list. We'll let a known arsonist buy gasoline and matches but not buy a gun, where's the logic in that?

      Some may know they can't own a gun, but are too lazy to find/use a black market connection. So they go to the gun store and hope their name was left off the list. The background check catches this case.

      Um, so we have background checks to catch the stupid criminals? We inconvenience millions of law abiding citizens, create piles of paperwork, create large federal agencies to make sure everyone's "papers are in order", only to catch a handful of idiots? How about we just let them buy the gun because the next thing such an idiot would do is hold up a donut shop while a dozen cops are getting coffee.

      Yeah, nobody likes waiting in line at the DMV to re-up on their license, license plate, etc.
      It doesn't mean we should hand out licenses to anybody who shows up at the counter.

      I don't like the idea of being assumed to be a criminal for wanting to buy a rifle and having to prove my innocence to the government before the store is allowed to sell it to me. If you want to keep criminals from getting guns then keep the criminals in prison once they are caught. If the person is deemed suited for return to society after their "time out" in prison then let them buy a gun too. Again, we'll let a known arsonist buy gasoline and matches but not buy a gun as the laws are written today. There's no logic in these gun laws, so get rid of them. If we don't simply get rid of them then there will be a time in the not too distant future where such laws are rendered pointless by technology.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    15. Re:Oh noes by Immerman · · Score: 1

      You can buy every component of a highly modular AR-15 except for the "central frame" with no regulation - they are not legally considered guns. All you need to 3D print that frame, the lower receiver, and you can have any weapon the AR-15 is designed to become, without breaking any laws, or creating any paper trail. Or you could just buy yourself an 80% complete kit and finish it yourself, it's still not legally considered a gun.

      https://www.wired.com/story/de...

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    16. Re:Oh noes by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      This would be incredibly easy to carry concealed, since it's not much bigger than a person's hand in the first place.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    17. Re:Oh noes by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      their advocacy against background checks and advocacy for firearms in the hands of mentally ill

      Speaking of the mentally ill, what do you get - personally, I mean - out of being such an easily debunked liar? Who is it, really, that you think you're somehow persuading? Low information fools? That's your audience? Or do you just like to hear your own trolling?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    18. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you know that air guns are completely unregulated? And some of them make the blind German mechanic von Herder's work look like a bit of a toy.

    19. Re:Oh noes by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      Yes, it IS legally considered a gun, but you're prevented from transferring it to anyone else. You can only have it for your own use. In some places, if you're going to take if off of your own property, you'd need to serialize it (silly, but there it is). Some places may also bar you from possessing it if it has a lightweight barrel, or too many of the wrong features (because features are scary). If you want to sell it, you have to go through the federal paperwork of becoming a manufacturer - and that's a big cliff from which to jump.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    20. Re:Oh noes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could go two ways with this...

      A) The AR-15 uses a low-powered small-caliber cartridge originally designed to shoot groundhogs. (If you would like an explanation why: because groundhogs can destroy millions of dollars of crops in a week, so farmers used to invite hunters to cull the 'hogs.) Anyone can buy a "deer gun" at Walmart that hits harder and further, and for less most than just a lower receiver of an AR-15.

      B) Anyone can build an AR-15 for personal use on your property--what's illegal is selling it to someone else without an Federal Firearms License. It's probably easier and cheaper to build a lower in your garage with metal than it is to build it out of plastic with an expensive 3D printer.

  3. Just buy a new nozzle for each object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10 normal 0.4mm brass nozzles cost 0,76€ ordered directly from China. So for less than 10cents per printed thing one can use a new nozzle every time. Altering the print speed, hotend temperature as well as the acceleration and jerk settings slightly should help to blur other device specific imperfections. However I don't think the 3D printed weapons are really an issue, at least when it comes to normal FDM plastic printers. People could have built much more reliable weapons with parts purchased at a hardware store for decades.

  4. Hardware stores do the same thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hardware stores "have the potential to make firearms more readily available to people who are not allowed to possess them."

  5. There is better evidence for 3D printed guns by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

    It should be easy to identify the blood on what's left of the gun after being shot.

  6. Easy fix : MUSIC, play it loud and play it Proud ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    set up your speakers

    next to your 3D printer

    and

    play a different song

    for every print you make.

    I read somewhere

    that the best 3D printed GUNS

    where printed while playing

    Chopin - Piano Sonata No. 3

    Volume needs to be loud enough

    to cause tiny ripples on a glass of water

    also,

    yes you need a glass of water

    to verify the presence of ripples on the water surface.

  7. Use for IDing in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stuff like this can be baked in to the firmware pretty deep down as a feature.
    Any reasonably complex printed part would have this ID redundantly printed in to every layer.
    Kinda similar to anti-money photocopying / editing in various packages like photocopiers, printers, Photoshop, etc.

    BUT. And this is a BIG but!
    You can melt down 3D prints to smooth them out. It's quite a simple process, subtle application of heat to get rid of the jagged terraces between layers. I've seen it done plenty of times. It works very well.
    Applied more generally over the entire structure could get rid of significant ID fingerprints without damaging the structure overall. If you build things up in lots of separate parts, you can almost guarantee a high degree of certainty that you melt out any fingerprints since it is easier to smooth out these micro-wrinkles and also MUCH quicker as well.
    Or, you know, anonymous purchases / stolen printers and some storage locker in butt-fuck nowhere.
    It will stop the petty small-time criminals, but not the smarter ones. Never has. Never will. Not unless you go full-stalker tier and everyone is forced to have monitoring chips embedded in them at all times.
    These tactics will always only ever be a temporary measure at best. (same goes for the anti-money duplication stuff, always ends up being defeated)

    1. Re:Use for IDing in general by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Very true, and that might work for big 3d printer manufacturers who are willing to play ball with governments in making linking of printout to printer easier... however the degree of open source nature involved makes that tricky, as anyone who decides they are going to 3d print things they could get in trouble for is probably going to know to use a clean firmware.

    2. Re:Use for IDing in general by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Your comment of fixing things into the (2D) printer firmware as an anti-forgery measure made me think of something, people 3D printing 2D printers.

      A printer, 2D or 3D, are things people have made on their own. These are not trivial devices, assuming they produce quality results, but it's not rocket surgery either. People are getting a bit fed up with the BS pulled by printer manufacturers on locking people into buying expensive ink from them later. Well, make your own printer then. With 3D printing getting as cheap as it is now there is the potential for this technology being advanced enough that someone could 3D print the parts needed to make their own inkjet printer.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:Use for IDing in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With 3D printing getting as cheap as it is now there is the potential for this technology being advanced enough that someone could 3D print the parts needed to make their own inkjet printer.

      No, but why would you need to? The watermarks are added in the printer firmware. You just need to replace that with something that doesn't add watermarks. Even your 3D-printed 2D printer will need firmware.

    4. Re:Use for IDing in general by blindseer · · Score: 1

      That works too. The point is that the tighter they squeeze the more slip between their fingers. With "they" defined as the government, manufacturers, or the combination of the two.

      I admit I didn't put too much thought into it, only that this seemed like a somewhat obvious solution to the problem. The 3D printers might have a "fingerprint" that is gathered from the big manufacturers to trace people that might print a gun or some other device that someone would want to trace back to the origin at some point. What will inevitably happen though is the development of an underground of people making their own printers to defeat such tracing. A 3D printer can be used to make another 3D printer. The "fingerprint" of the first printer is unlikely to show in the products of the second printer. Or, as you point out, people will simply make modifications to off the shelf devices to defeat this fingerprinting.

      This has been discussed to no end on a "fingerprint" for guns. Not the 3D printed kind, just guns in general. There have been claims of taking the rifling "fingerprint" from one fired bullet to that of another. The problem with this right off the top is that modern machining is so consistent that such rifling is nearly indistinguishable from one new gun to the next from the same factory. Then there is the wear on the barrel making the rifling change over time. Then with people knowing that such fingerprinting might take place will make efforts to make such fingerprinting difficult, through switching out barrels (which can take only minutes on some firearms by an experienced gunsmith) or just running an abrasive down the barrel to mess up the rifling a bit (or removing the rifling completely but that will be detrimental to the accuracy). Oh, and shotguns don't leave any kind of unique markings on the projectile.

      The whole idea of matching the composition of the projectiles to a manufactured batch has also been rendered impossible with modern quality controls.

      There is no solution to this fingerprinting of machines that cannot be defeated once it gets out on how the fingerprinting was done. As soon as people figure out what the determining factor is then it will be defeated by randomizing the factors or making them so minute that they can no longer be measured accurately. This is also often dependent on the cooperation of the manufacturers to collect the "fingerprint" of what they make and where it went, which will also in time be defeated with some home brew workarounds or just plain old identity fraud.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    5. Re:Use for IDing in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Referencing a lame kids story doesn't make you seem smart. You're not. You're retarded.

    6. Re:Use for IDing in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Referencing a lame kids story doesn't make you seem smart. You're not. You're retarded.

      What "kids story" was referenced?

  8. Not Conclusively by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Someone who claims that a 3D printer "footprint" is conclusive evidence linking anything to anyone, has no concept of modern manufacturing, utilizing CNC machines.

    Aside from that, unlike a test-firing of a metal firearm, a 3D printer can be adjusted by law enforcement to print in a particular fashion.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:Not Conclusively by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

      Whereas "footprint" should be "fingerprint."
      Sorry, blood sugar issues.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    2. Re:Not Conclusively by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      You're also having some encoding problems, Ivan.

    3. Re:Not Conclusively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not an encoding problem, you absolute moron.

  9. Microdots... by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1

    Reality Winter was convicted because the classified documents that she printed out and gave to a reporter had microdots that identified the office printer at the NSA.

    1. Re:Microdots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They weren't microdots, which are silver-halide film technology from WWII/cold war. They were Omron dots, a.k.a. EURion Constellation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation) dots. But yes, 3-D printers could lay down patterns in a similar manner, and makers might well be urged to do so very soon now.

    2. Re:Microdots... by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      They weren't microdots, which are silver-halide film technology from WWII/cold war. They were Omron dots, a.k.a. EURion Constellation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation) dots. But yes, 3-D printers could lay down patterns in a similar manner, and makers might well be urged to do so very soon now.

      Great, that will work really well with all the build it yourself printers that run on open source software. I suppose lazy not particularly bright criminals will stick with the old tried and true method of stealing/ buying a gun and getting rid of it when done with it.

    3. Re:Microdots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing creimer does is "micro"....

  10. 30 Seconds in an Acetone chamber.... by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 1

    And this method becomes irrelevant.... The smoothing will wipe away the majority of the traces being used and slightly re-size the object.

  11. Re:Easy fix : MUSIC, play it loud and play it Prou by blindseer · · Score: 1

    I hear it's also good for detecting the presence of dinosaurs.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  12. In Star Trek... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They were able to detect unique replicator patterns to say whether it was romulans, klingons or humans.

    1. Re:In Star Trek... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      So, gun control and such things work out very well in fictional universes.

      Shall we discuss how well they work in OUR UNIVERSE?

    2. Re:In Star Trek... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Australia.

    3. Re:In Star Trek... by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      I , personally, have never met a Klingon or Romulan in Australia.

  13. Submillimeters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Each layer of a 3D-printed object contains tiny wrinkles -- usually measured in submillimeters

    So what is the si prefix for submiili? Saying submillimeter makes sense for imprecise statements like "submillimeter accuracy", but I don't believe it's something you would use as a unit of measure.

  14. Like fingerprints? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are not as unique as once thought and imperfect records taken to record fingerprints can/has/will lead to false 'matches'... so keep that in mind.

    1. Re: Like fingerprints? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)ll false match your face to my ass!

  15. So, why does this supprise anyone? by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Type writers use to be able to be traced. I am sure the material that is used in the 3d printers is also fingerprints. Including other distinctions. Again, why does this surprise anyone.

    --
    Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    1. Re:So, why does this supprise anyone? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Yes, they could, because the various typebars wore in unique, distinctive ways, such as having one character offset in a particular direction or another key not printing completely. Of course, this could be defeated if you had access to several machines of the same model plus some small tools so that you could move various typebars around among the machines so that none of them matched the sample. Much more practical, of course, was either selling the machine, smashing it or dumping it someplace where it's unlikely to be found, such as in deep water or the local city dump. You find this sort of thing in detective/spy novels written back then, but I've no idea if it ever happened in Real Life.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  16. Nonsense by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    They described a lot of different aspect that give a particular 3D printer some sort of unique fingerprint.. so what's to stop someone from doing the deed, then discarding one of the parts and replacing it, like I dunno.. the nozzel?

    This research into method to identify the source printer of a particular 3D printed object seems pretty unintelligent. Did they even consider how easy it would be to mess with your device to make it's 'fingerprint' change?

    I'd go as far to say, as a 3D printer gets used, it's signature or fingerprint will drift over time just from regular wear and tear, without any active measures to alter that signature.

    If it's this trivial to alter the signature, then this research is pretty much garbage. Only congrats I'm offering is one for duping people out of $$$ to conduct this study. Good job!

  17. Who cares? by judoguy · · Score: 1

    A solution looking for a problem. How many people have been shot with a printed gun?

    --
    Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    1. Re:Who cares? by harrkev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your problem is that you are using logic in what is clearly meant to be an emotional argument. "GUNZ" should trigger everybody to want more laws without even bothering to think rationally.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    2. Re:Who cares? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Wait, fighting kids and protecting terrorists and drugs (or ... something like this) isn't good enough anymore as an excuse to pass a law?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Who cares? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Your problem is that you are using logic in what is clearly meant to be an emotional argument. "GUNZ" should trigger everybody to want more laws without even bothering to think rationally.

      Bingo, don't forget about funding people to make sure they are properly controlled.

  18. Most of their "fingerprint" is based on infill by Leslie43 · · Score: 1

    and I’m willing to bet they used proprietary software that managed the infill for them, this is something aftermarket slicers allow you to change, not just the amount but even the type.

    Even if you use proprietary that doesn't allow you to alter the infill, all you need to do to mess with their results is to rotate the object a small amount, it will alter how the infill pattern is laid down. If each file has a 1degree rotation the software would likely be unable to identify what printer did what because how the slicer would alter the infill regardless of the machine and how it handles the stepping.

    This works fine in a lab where you can control all of the variables, like the slicing software, firmware, plastics and environment, but in the real world, it's completely impractical. People update software, change settings, nozzles wear, belts stretch, plastic absorbs water and requires different temps, different plastics need different temps... It's just too many variables.

  19. boogey man by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

    3D printed guns are much like the ever feared, at least in Kommiefornia, .50 cal sniper rifle. Both have not been used in crimes yet get inordinate amounts of press.

    1. Re:boogey man by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Please don't say Kommiefornia. You sound like my Dad. But you are right: The .50 Cal ban was just boogeyman worry.

  20. Re:Easy fix : MUSIC, play it loud and play it Prou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This

    bizarre form

    of poetry needs

    to be auto-magically

    concatenated

    into normal paragraphs.

  21. Not really about guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The scare tactics are really about companies fear that 3D printers will prevent them from charging $90 for a plastic replacement door handle for your 2001 Corolla, or $45 for a small plastic piece that broke off your blender. If 3D printers are outlawed, only outlaws will not submit to the high margin repair market.

  22. Total Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In addition to the suggestions made beliw for adding variance to each iteration, how about just doing a little finish sanding of each printed part?

  23. So basically by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    Build your sten at home with regular tools since it will be more reliable and won't have a fingerprint either.

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  24. ALL printers have a "fingerprint" by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    Been in the copier/printer/fax/computer business almost 40 years. Printers print a row of light yellow dots, even on b&w copies along the edges to ID each print. It's not as bad with "fake" stuff these days because most printers have tech to know if it is a "non copy" document. Unless you copy them over 150% or less than 74% of the original size, they come out blank or black, or just won't copy at all.

  25. 3D printed plastic guns are a total joke by halfdan+the+black · · Score: 1

    What is all this uproar over 3D printed plastic toys. A 3D printed plastic gun is a complete and total joke, they last for what, 3 or 4 shots, then it breaks. Plus, 3D printers are expensive.

    On the other hand, I can can go to Home Depot, and for a few hundred dollars, I can buy all the tools and material I need to build a REAL usable gun, that lasts more that 3-4 shots, and actually has some accuracy. Literally all you need is a cheap drill press, drill bits, files, some steel, piece of pipe, springs, piece of wood and you've got a usable gun. It's not hard, it's not rocket science, and I'd say it's a lot easier than fiddling with an stupid plastic 3D printer. Literally, about the only use I've found for these plastic 3D printers is to print trinkets and bobbles. The plastic is too soft for anything useful.

    But give me a piece of steel, and I can build you something useful.

    1. Re:3D printed plastic guns are a total joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An entirely 3D printed gun is a hobby project/research experiment. You don't need to do that. You 3D print the lower receiver (the part that is actually legally restricted from sale) and you order the rest of the gun online. 3D printed AR-15 lower receivers are good for 500-600 rounds.

    2. Re:3D printed plastic guns are a total joke by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      Look up Creality Ender 3 PRO. Those can be had for $200 these days, and can print all the parts for the "toy" gun. It's not so much that they are ready for prime time, its the fact that a printer of the same capability would have run you $25,000 just ten years ago.

      The metal printers and reinforced plastic capable printers, that can actually print all the "real" gun parts, yes including the tungsten rails and rifled barrels, run about $100,000-$200,000 today. So we are talking about $300,000 (one of each) to start up an automated gun manufacturing facility in your garage. I bit rich for my blood, but it is getting closer to affordable for the small businessman.

      Myself and my fellow student engineers are experimenting with printing with fiber re-enforced nylons at home on our sub $1000 printers. I'm sad to say that MagPull probably sold me my last assessor this year as we are getting some great results. As a side note I haven't bought plastic parts for just about anything else since I started printing my own 3 years ago.

      What is starting to spook people is they are realizing these things will be cheap enough to be in most enthusiast homes within another decade. Sure $25,000 will buy you a good sized arsenal for your bunker, but a $25,000 printer could keep a local population set in terms of guns, parts, and accessories outside of any gov't control.

      Now take that one step further and have the same printers cost $5000. Who wouldn't have one?

      How about when they get below $1000. Who wouldn't have two or three?

      They can always flag your purchases at Home Depot for people trying to make pipe guns. Little harder to tell if little Timmy is printing toy Storm Troopers or handguns on daddy's printer in the garage.

      That scares the shit out of the control freaks in government.

  26. Project Exile by zazenation · · Score: 1

    This response reminds me of the experimental program for illegal gun possession that was tried some decades ago -- Project Exile. You get caught with an illegal gun, you bought yourself a mandatory 5 year felony sentence -- regardless of how "innocent" you were of other crimes.
    It seems to address all the right behavior for all the right reasons. I looked it up on Wiki and it seems that Rochester NY is the sole jurisdiction where it is still in practiced.
    I remember reading in the distant past that it was not being enforced at the federal level for some unknown reason as I recall.
    Too bad that the program didn't fly, makes perfect sense to address illegal firearms possession. Anyone know why it faded out?

    1. Re:Project Exile by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Too bad that the program didn't fly, makes perfect sense to address illegal firearms possession. Anyone know why it faded out?

      I remember hearing about this program too, but in Virginia instead of New York. What ended the program, again as I recall, was three things.

      First was that this was a federal program to prosecute criminals for felon in possession and similar federal crimes and so the local governments saw this as federal over reach on local matters. Even though the program was successful the local government was seeing their authority to police their jurisdiction as they wished being diluted. The early success was celebrated but in time this became unpopular and the federal government was pressured to stop.

      Second, the state laws changed on concealed carry. Even though this was a state law and did nothing on catching criminals violating federal law, what did happen was that the law abiding citizen was more likely to be armed. Prior to this change in 1990 or so the state allowed sheriffs to "may issue", meaning the sheriff could deny a permit for any reason or no reason at all. After the change the state had licenses to carry a concealed weapon as "shall issue", which is much like getting a driver license, if you pass all the checks along the way they had to issue a license. Criminals discovered that they could not go about their criminal ways so easily any more as it could mean getting shot by a law abiding citizen.

      Third, and this is an almost funny part, the criminals simply stopped carrying guns. This didn't mean they stopped stealing, raping, and dealing drugs, it just meant they strong armed people or carried some other weapons. They learned that carrying a firearm was the fast track to a federal court that held no mercy, so they stopped carrying firearms so they'd be put in the state system that had overcrowded prisons, overworked parole officers, and therefore lenient sentences and little oversight upon release.

      The program was tried out in Virginia because the proximity to DC meant that a lot of federal employees were seeing the effects of this crime where they lived. It worked to take things down a notch but the reasons I gave meant it was temporary and as far as I know only tried in a couple other places, at least as a federal program. States and cities tried similar tactics and they worked well as long as they were swift and fierce on punishment. If they got "squishy" on enforcement, because of rising costs and/or loss of public support, then it meant the crime just went back up again.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    2. Re:Project Exile by zazenation · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the 411.

      1) It doesn't surprise me that the tribal fiefdom mentality contributed to it.

      2) I remember back in the day when I lived in MA that they had a "shall issue" FID card system for long guns and a "may issue" discretionary system for pistols that was up to the whim of the local sheriff (sigh).

      3) Or they carry a BB gun or painted over red tip air-soft gun for intimidation then the family cries over the coffin and whine to the cameras when they get shot by police while being "unarmed"!
      Which brings to mind. Now it seems that criminals use crazy excuses for being in possession of ANY contraband. I remember a story way back when where they caught some fool with drugs in his pocket and he said with a straight face that they weren't his pants!

      The old adage, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away" says it all.

         

  27. "Counterfeit products" ??? by AC-x · · Score: 1

    could ultimately help law enforcement and intelligence agencies track the origin of ... counterfeit products and other goods

    Where can I get one of these (presumably) affordable 3D printers capable of printing high-enough quality to be able to pass any attempt at counterfeiting as an original product!??!

    1. Re:"Counterfeit products" ??? by NitroWolf · · Score: 1

      could ultimately help law enforcement and intelligence agencies track the origin of ... counterfeit products and other goods

      Where can I get one of these (presumably) affordable 3D printers capable of printing high-enough quality to be able to pass any attempt at counterfeiting as an original product!??!

      Counterfeit Etsy products of course.

  28. They are very short sighted by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    There will end up being some inane law that requires the printers to make an identifying mark inside the material. Something that you can't get at. That will be the standard commercial fair. Then your enthusiast will simply print new parts for his printer and jail brake the software that causes this and neatly go around it.

    Same deal if they mandate some sort of microtag to be laced into the filament. People will just simply make their own.

    I don't think our gov't overlords get it yet....they are about to lose almost complete control of manufacturing once this gets cheap/good enough in the near future. Once it is cheap enough and good enough to be on par with what you now buy in a store.

    A nice metal printer that fits in your office and can produce actual gun parts will only set you back about $150,000. A nylon re-enforced polymer printer is about the same. That was something that was millions of dollars just a decade ago. They are rapidly approaching parity with the old school manufacturing methods in terms of speed/cost, especially since it only takes 1 person to run a few dozen of these machines and maybe 1-2 more to keep them serviced. You could print out all the parts for a modern handgun, including the tungsten rails (yes they can do that now) and the barrels with rifling, with those two printers taking up the space of maybe a decent sized bedroom. Obviously there is a little more to it than that. They aren't good enough to print everything together assembled, and the parts will require some finishing, but parts wise companies are starting to look at these for more than just prototypes.

    Using those two machines at $200 a gun, printing 5 guns a day, a very reasonable amount for the ones I've seen, you are talking about ROI on those machines of less than 1 year. That is off the shelf now. Just imagine what they'll be able to do in another 10 years.

  29. Is this like the typewriter ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 1

    ... in the Rosenberg case?