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Prank Calls Brought ICE Hotline To a Standstill, Internal Emails Show (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: When ICE launched an immigration crime hotline last year, the Trump administration pitched it as a way to provide resources to victims, but activists saw something else: an attack on the immigrant community. The hotline was part of the Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement (VOICE) Office, an outfit established in February 2017. When the office first launched a line for its services the following April, protestors flooded the hotline to call in pranks and slow down response times. The plan picked up even more steam as the protestors shared the hotline number online, encouraging others to call in with fake tips.

According to internal emails and documents obtained by The Verge under the Freedom of Information Act, prank calls fully upended the system, leaving operators unable to answer more than 98 percent of incoming calls during the protest as the media relations team attempted to contain the narrative. In reports and emails produced in the first days of operation, ICE officials described an "overwhelming" amount of calls. The day after the launch, the office received more than 16,400. Of those, only a little more than 2,100 were placed into a queue, and only 260 answered. Callers in the queue waited as long as 79 minutes to reach an operator. An official noted that, should the rate of calls continue, they would need an additional 400 operators to field the hotline.

457 comments

  1. Enter AI? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now this sounds like a fun AI voice challenge: something to weed out the protesting trolls and drop them into queues where they think they're tying up the lines, while allowing people who really have a complaint through, using a mix of incoming phone number, question/response with caller and perhaps other input. Same thing with tips.

    1. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is actually a super-easy fix. Change the call-in to a "leave your number" system. Prioritize calls where the call-in number matches the caller ID. If crank callers want to leave their real phone number, more power to them.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Enter AI? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Not as easy as it may sounds.
      Just leave your neighbor's number. Your move.

      --
      I tend to rant.
    3. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those people are trolls, they're patriots

    4. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is actually a super-easy fix. Change the call-in to a "leave your number" system. Prioritize calls where the call-in number matches the caller ID. If crank callers want to leave their real phone number, more power to them.

      Better yet, fine people making prank calls, use money to build the wall.

    5. Re:Enter AI? by willaien · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Better use of AI: Create an AI that can convincingly sound like an old man angry at his "latino" neighbors. Change the pitch and tone per call to mask that it's an AI, and have thousands of them call and flood the phone systems.

    6. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because illegal Aliens are good for the nation, eh?

      Fuck you.

      Actually, Die in a car fire, trapped, like the screaming pig you are.

    7. Re:Enter AI? by hdyoung · · Score: 2

      No need to hide your real number. In this situation, distinguishing between a prank call and a real one may be impossible, at least for the first few calls from a number. "Hi ICE, my name is so-and-so. There's a guy working at the local starbucks with skin that's some shade other than pasty white. He has a funny accent. I'm scared he's gonna murder me while I buy my mocha frappe whatever. Please deport him and keep me safe".

      Sincere or not?

    8. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Prioritize calls where the call-in number matches the caller ID"

      Your neighbour's number will not match your number, thus you will be deprioritized.

    9. Re: Enter AI? by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Errr, wha?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    10. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why bother? They'll just shut down the hotline and refrain from ever offering one again. It's not skin off their backs.

      These protesters are only hurting themselves and/or the illegals they are trying to defend.

    11. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're better than your dumb ass

    12. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was a time when people at Slashdot would want to use technology to stop thugs, rather than to enable them. The rise of fascism in America is horrifying.

    13. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh, stopping them from ever doing this again is the goal, because the hotline is a fascist tool that hurts people. I'm a citizen and I don't approve of these gestapo 1984 tactics.

    14. Re:Enter AI? by mysidia · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not as easy as it may sounds.
      Just leave your neighbor's number. Your move.

      Prompt them to type in not just their phone number, but also their Driver's License number. Verify the DL number against the DL database before connecting the call.

      Any "protestor" that goes past those two checkpoints and makes an obvious prank call --- criminally prosecute them under the full extent of the law, and make a public example of them (It's a felony to make false statements to a government official).

    15. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not as easy as it may sounds.
      Just leave your neighbor's number. Your move.

      Prompt them to type in not just their phone number, but also their Driver's License number. Verify the DL number against the DL database before connecting the call.

      Any "protestor" that goes past those two checkpoints and makes an obvious prank call --- criminally prosecute them under the full extent of the law, and make a public example of them (It's a felony to make false statements to a government official).

      I doubt many legitimate people would go to those lengths. So you might as well not have the service in the first place.

    16. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is no national DL database, every state does it differently. ICE is a Federal agency. I can't imagine the clusterf that would be trying to coordinate ICE's switchboard with 50 different DMV systems that can change randomly. Also every state has different laws with regards to privacy and DL's.

    17. Re:Enter AI? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Make a complaint that is plausible but not actionable. "Some guy with dark skin was laughing loudly outside Home Depot, I think he might be Mexican".

    18. Re:Enter AI? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1, Troll

      Not as easy as it may sounds. Just leave your neighbor's number. Your move.

      Prompt them to type in not just their phone number, but also their Driver's License number. Verify the DL number against the DL database before connecting the call.

      Any "protestor" that goes past those two checkpoints and makes an obvious prank call --- criminally prosecute them under the full extent of the law, and make a public example of them (It's a felony to make false statements to a government official).

      Seems a lot to just shout DEY TUK URRR JERBS which is probably what a lot of the 'legit' calls are about. While you're at it though might as well get them to leave their social security number and bank account details too.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    19. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already are. Caller ID knows their real phone number, 888-345-6789

      >called ID can be spoofed, the system will think they're 555-444-3333 that's not their real number!!

      So the spoofer posts a LeaveYourNumber with the spoof. They dial the buttons for 555-444-3333.

      The system prioritizes their match.

      Why is this +4 insightful?

    20. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drivers License? We don't need no stinkin' drivers license! Number is to report immigration abuse, and many immigrants cannot afford cars, so no need for drivers license, and the ones that have cars often drive illegally without insurance or drivers license. I like your ideas, but the drivers license number requirement won't work, and legit abuse won't get reported. ICE is notoriously abusive, and this shit must stop.

    21. Re:Enter AI? by crashumbc · · Score: 1

      LOL, a 5 year old can spoof caller ID...

    22. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Because the number of people who can spoof a caller ID is vanishingly small compared to the number of people the system can handle.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    23. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, the tricks on you.

      Immigrants reporting each other don't have forces licenses because, according to a bunch of posts, they're just leeching off social security (without an ssn)

    24. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Doesn't matter. The number of people who are willing to use their real phone number to file a fake report with law enforcement is going to be a lot less than the number who think they are being anonymous. And if not, it makes them even easier to track down for their summons. Stupid is as stupid does.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    25. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      That's a fine longer-term fix. I was thinking how to mitigate the problem in the short term.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    26. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe they can, but they don't and they won't. Getting people to follow a social media meme by dialing a phone number is easy. Getting people to follow a social media meme involving the machinations of caller ID spoofing is not as easy. So your problem set is smaller, and your problem is easier to manage. Don't let perfection get in the way of progress.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    27. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then "crank callers are leaving their real phone number" already. Your idea just runs a lap around the building.

    28. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is no national DL database

      That's not really true anymore. There is RealID, which is pretty much fully implemented at this point. There are a few states with waivers because they haven't given all of their citizens the new IDs yet, but database connections are one of the criteria for compliance.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    29. Re:Enter AI? by JackieBrown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try it. I would bet good money that no ICE agent will ever show up if that's all you had to report.

      As racist as you think your opponents are, they really are not.

    30. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I'm not communicating this well.

      Right now the procedure to tie up an operator (or simply tie up the queue) is:
      1. Call the number
      2. Wait in the queue

      To achieve the same effect with a callback system as I propose:
      1. Download caller-id spoofing app
      2. Call the number
      3. Leave fake number that matches you spoofed number

      The number of people who will do the second scenario is much smaller than the number of people who will do the first scenario. Further, the people getting spoofed callbacks from ICE in the second scenario will likely be confused and won't take up much of the operator's time. I'm not suggesting that they eliminate the problem - merely that they mitigated it somewhat.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    31. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only rise of fascism in America is the rise in labeling everything you don't like as fascism.

      Like a child repeating a word over and over again, until it becomes meaningless babble, the word "fascism" no longer means anything.

    32. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very few illegals are violent. Nice try you racist scumfuck

      numbnuts

    33. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bootlicker

    34. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoofing caller ID may be relatively easy, but if this is an 800 number, then they will be sent the ANI number which is not easy to change. The Automatic Number identification is send to things like 911 and 800 numbers, and even if you block caller id the ANI is still sent.

    35. Re:Enter AI? by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      But if it's a callback system then all you need is one guy willing to write a script that does it a million times.

    36. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      ICE is a corrupt department of secret police thugs and it should be abolished

    37. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe you psycho white supremacists actually support this kind of gestapo 1984 bullshit

    38. Re:Enter AI? by bblb · · Score: 0

      A five year might be able to... but most unhinged leftists with their panties in a knot over illegal immigrants being treated as illegal immigrants probably can't.

    39. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how did this change come about? Was this a change in the overall us population or a change in slashdot's population. Did this happen as a result of changing ownership of slashdot? Could a company like Dice be used to blacklist people with unwanted political views?

    40. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      These aren't emails, it is a phone system. There is a non-zero cost associated with phone calls, and huge blasts meant to effectively DoS the hotline would be a felony.

      But if script kiddies did this on a smaller scale, it wouldn't really make a difference. The chances of their script picking numbers where a person on the other end will actually answer a mystery number is pretty low. The autodialer would never connect in a large number of cases, and it wouldn't waste as much (human) time.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    41. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I forgot one more mitigation strategy. If people started scripting fake CIDs, you could just insert the phone-equivalent of a captcha. No one said the adversary won't eventually adapt.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    42. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Follow it up with a civil suit, charging them with repayment of the cost to take their call, look into the false claim, and then the manhours to track them down. Could easily be over $100k, which will then go towards funding the hotline. Make the protesters fund it.

    43. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (It's a felony to make false statements to a government official).

      Good prank calls don't have to contain any false statements.

    44. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are indebted to your party and will support it no matter how crappy?

    45. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nobody is illegal you dumb f*ck. You just failed your Antifa creed. Your boss will send the thought police to get you now. Run, Logan, run.

    46. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Seems a lot to just shout DEY TUK URRR JERBS which is probably what a lot of the 'legit' calls are about. While you're at it though might as well get them to leave their social security number and bank account details too.

      You wouldn't be so smug and dismissive if you lost a child or loved one to an illegal alien, which is what this number was setup to support. You care more about illegal aliens, who have no right to be here, than murdered American children. Apparently, they'd have to be illegal to get you to care.

      By the way, while it's evident you prefer broken English by your support of illegal aliens, the whole "took our jerbs" thing has been repeated by brain-dead liberals a million times now. If you didn't have your head burried in the liberal media's ass, you'd realize this goes way beyond jobs at this point.

      Enjoy the "blue swirl" as your party and your ill-conceived ideas go down the shitter where they belong!

    47. Re: Enter AI? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      You shouldn't be so diligent in your efforts to announce to the world that you are a moron. Trust me ... People already realize this.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    48. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you are one of those "Dey took orrrrr jerbzzzz"

      A faggot repubtard. Back in the pile!!

    49. Re:Enter AI? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The whole protest was just to clog the phone lines, not get ICE dispatched. Do try to keep up.

    50. Re:Enter AI? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      However, consider that ICE outsources some of its functions to private contractors, and those contractors are incentivized based upon how they are paid. So let's say this phone service is outsourced to a contractor which is paid based upon the number of calls that they follow up on...

    51. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right out of the handbook! Berate any challengers.

      Orange man bad!

    52. Re:Enter AI? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Then the protesters helped make a corporation a lot of money. Great job fighting the man!

    53. Re: Enter AI? by schure · · Score: 1

      Good solution. Congrats, good Samaritan, for helping Trump's cause for no gain apart from a small ego boost. Next post on /. will probably read, "Wall too expensive to build, requires engineering breakthrough, internal emails show"...

    54. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the automated portion of the initial call, ask specific questions and rank the call based on answers to those questions. For example, "Do you know the person's name?", "What is the person's name?", "Does this person have a permanent address?", "What is this person's permanent address?", "Has this person been convicted of a crime?", "Do you have documentation of this person's conviction?", etc...

      The "yes/no" answers would be used in the automated ranking. If the ranking is too low, thank the person for their report and just drop it on the floor after taking their phone number. If the yes/no answers cause a rank to be high enough for a human to look at it, a human would review the answers to the followup questions and decide what to do -- drop it, refer the caller for possible prosecution for making a false report (note that this approach will likely either result in nonsense answers or a true false report if someone is making fake calls), or put the person on the callback queue to actually followup on their report.

    55. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a friend that works at the ICE hotline. They have an internal tally of how many calls they get that effectively boil down to DEY TUK URRR JERBS. It is a staggering number, hence why ICE cannot action hardly any of the cases.

    56. Re: Enter AI? by rfengr · · Score: 1, Troll

      Ah, but think of the children, if we could save just one life, ONE LIFE of a child killed by an illegal immigrant, we should deport them all. Liberal logic works both ways, jackass.

    57. Re: Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Haha, I actually thought about that as I posted it. Fortunately the call center is run by government and they aren't nearly agile enough to make such a change.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    58. Re:Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a constitutional right to complain to the government, so ranting incoherently into the phone line or complaining about the president's immigrant relations is legal

    59. Re:Enter AI? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm not a lawyer. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. To try it out, call 911 repeatedly and drone on about your constitutional rights and then get back to us if they let you use the internet in prison.

      I certainly wouldn't want to go up against the government in court in what amounts to a DoS attack.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    60. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great. Less money for ICE to spend separating children from their parents or kicking down doors to arrest innocent people.

    61. Re: Enter AI? by Type44Q · · Score: 2
      In that case, your pathologically-inflexible mind will really struggle with the fact that classic 'anti-fascist types' are also very much against this "open borders insanity."

      The only ones not against it are Globalists who intend to monetize the dismantling of America's middle class, and naive limousine liberals who'd be diligently working overseas to improve conditions in third-world hell-holes (without also trying to reduce them here) if they actually gave a fuck about helping anybody.

    62. Re: Enter AI? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      1984 bullshit

      How apropos that those who thought the original Red Dawn (a Commie invasion of the U.S. from Latin America) sounded like a how-to guide are also the same mouthbreathers advocating that everyone - except the government - be denied the right to defend themselves.

    63. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should ask your local 911 center how many calls they get that aren't real emergencies versus the number prosecuted.

      It will be small. And very few will go to jail, let alone prison, because the costs aren't worth the effort.

      Remember, even in Alabama, prisoners aren't profitable.

    64. Re:Enter AI? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1, Troll

      Seems a lot to just shout DEY TUK URRR JERBS which is probably what a lot of the 'legit' calls are about. While you're at it though might as well get them to leave their social security number and bank account details too.

      You wouldn't be so smug and dismissive if you lost a child or loved one to an illegal alien, which is what this number was setup to support. You care more about illegal aliens, who have no right to be here, than murdered American children. Apparently, they'd have to be illegal to get you to care.

      By the way, while it's evident you prefer broken English by your support of illegal aliens, the whole "took our jerbs" thing has been repeated by brain-dead liberals a million times now. If you didn't have your head burried in the liberal media's ass, you'd realize this goes way beyond jobs at this point.

      Enjoy the "blue swirl" as your party and your ill-conceived ideas go down the shitter where they belong!

      If your child is murdered, I would suggest you phone the police, not an immigration hotline. Thanks for trying though.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    65. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look it's another cuck willing to let everyone else's tax dollars support illegal immigrants. No surprise, since the one script you all read from says as much anyhow.

      How does it feel supporting MS13?
      I didn't know you were pro Child Rape.

    66. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, let all MS13 members in without exception, all long as they all vote Democrat!

      I'm sure Canada already has open boarders, since they're more progressive than the US after all.

    67. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean people that enter a country illegally are not criminals? I dare you to try that at any other boarder, see how far it gets you.

      ICE separates child from adults since the Obama administration, in order to stop human trafficking and the exploitation of children as sex slaves.

      But I guess if you're pro child rape, you'd want them to be brought in no questions asked.

    68. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, when ICE is a federal organization with more authority and resources than your local police force?

      Don't you libtards also spew out "Police BAD!" all of the time anyhow?

    69. Re: Enter AI? by stealth_finger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Suddenly not wanting to be raped or killed is fascist now.

      No but blaming all society's ills on a bogeyman class is. In this case, immigrants.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    70. Re: Enter AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is illegal

      Thanks. It annoys me endlessly when people misuse language.

    71. Re: Enter AI? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Why, when ICE is a federal organization with more authority and resources than your local police force?

      Don't you libtards also spew out "Police BAD!" all of the time anyhow?

      So any federal department is now to investigate murders and prosecute the crimes now?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  2. Thank you internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Useful for a change

  3. So that's a win, right? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So that's a win, right?

    TFS says Trump's making 400 new jobs with this program...

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  4. I don't get it... by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

    If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

    That is the current law.

    If folks don't like that, then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws.

    I agree we need to update and fix the immigration laws. It should be fair, and a more simple and less $$ process, BUT, it also should allow for control of who all gets to come in. I think we could look to encourage more immigration from those that are educated and can come to the US and help the workforce and economy right away.

    There will be some lower educated types too, as that all levels are needed, but the ratio needs to be controlled.

    But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

    While it is noble to take our great wealth and resources to help others around the world, we can NOT support the whole world and cannot house or bring everyone and their goat into our country.

    If countries, such as in South America are having such problems,.....we can't bring everyone here, those people need to fix things at HOME and stay there.....

    ICE is the part of the federal government that helps control immigration and deports those that come here illegally. Why do we not support them?

    Hell, one of the few constitutionally enumerated responsibilities and powers of the federal government IS to protect our borders.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      fuck the law.
      fuck those who enforce it.
      fuck this country too.

      I hope there's a new rebellious spirit born in the US and it will look like 1968 all over again.

    2. Re:I don't get it... by JackieBrown · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think with the caravan/army/mob (take your pick) coming, people are going to have to see this as the issue it actually is.

    3. Re:I don't get it... by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      If folks don't like that, then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws.

      I agree we need to update and fix the immigration laws. It should be fair, and a more simple and less $$ process, BUT, it also should allow for control of who all gets to come in. I think we could look to encourage more immigration from those that are educated and can come to the US and help the workforce and economy right away.

      There will be some lower educated types too, as that all levels are needed, but the ratio needs to be controlled.

      But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      While it is noble to take our great wealth and resources to help others around the world, we can NOT support the whole world and cannot house or bring everyone and their goat into our country.

      If countries, such as in South America are having such problems,.....we can't bring everyone here, those people need to fix things at HOME and stay there.....

      ICE is the part of the federal government that helps control immigration and deports those that come here illegally. Why do we not support them?

      Hell, one of the few constitutionally enumerated responsibilities and powers of the federal government IS to protect our borders.

      I am liberal. I do not support 'wide open borders'. I do not know anyone that does.

      You do know that most of the problems in central america are US caused. In Hondouras we helped with the coup that created the current shitty government, high murder rate and poor conditions. We push the war on drugs that only enriches cartels in these countries.

      As to illegal immigrants. it is capitalists here that provide the opportunity. They are economically unwilling or unable to hire Americans and pay them a higher wage and taxes and instead hire illegals. Who should be punished in this scenario? The person looking for abetter life, or the businessman, farmer, construction company that exploits their labor to the detriment of citizens?

      Also, this caravan - if it comes to a border point - this is legal asylum seeking. The office of refugee resettlement spends about half a billion per year resettling asylum seekers. Trumps camps cost 2 billion in just a few months. Sometimes it is cheaper just being a decent person.

      This country has PLENTY. The only reason it does not feel like that to most is the artificial scarcity imposed by the oligarchy. This is the capitalism so many her slavishly and uncritically adore.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    4. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think you would find a vanishingly small number of people who would actually advocate for "full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here" in any country.

    5. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides the fact that nation states are a ridiculous concept to begin with (why should people in a one geographic region control who can come and go to said region) the vast majority of these immigrants simple law abiding people who just want to work and provide for their family.

    6. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the United States, despite Trump's howling protestations, actually still recognizes the right of asylum of individuals as specified by international and federal laws. It's not illegal to enter a country then request asylum, especially when the political and economic violence that you're fleeing from was directly and/or indirectly caused by US actions in your home country. The government's own laws state that the US must determine each application for asylum on a case-by-case basis before deportation. It's also the humane thing to do ... though judging from the vitriolic attacks on people's basic human rights these days, general lack of empathy, widespread mental and intellectual malaise, outright propaganda and distrust of facts, and fascist-like tones coming from some quarters, you'd think no one gave a shit about anyone else, anymore. And that leads to ... well ... darkness.

    7. Re:I don't get it... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent up -- we made a hell of a mess in Central and South America by supporting Fascists. Who do you think funded the Dirty Wars in South America. Remember Arbenz in Guatemala?

    8. Re:I don't get it... by mrbester · · Score: 2

      On the one hand, I am in agreement that borders should be secure. As such there need to be processes in place to aid that objective.

      On the other, this tip line is an incredibly easy way for any racist bigot who thought that someone looked at them funny, or was "in the wrong place" merely because they weren't white to make malicious calls; it's another form of SWATting, only this time it's government approved.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    9. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      fear, fear, fear

      it's always the same with you folks

      your masters drive you with fear.

    10. Re:I don't get it... by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      Better update the Statue of Liberty then "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" needs to be replaces with "Fuck You, I got mine, go home brownies".

      Perhaps we should ask the native Americans what they think of these "blow ins" from across the sea.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    11. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why do asylum-seeking beggars get to be choosers? How many countries are they passing through before they get here?

    12. Re:I don't get it... by stinerman · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?
      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      If folks don't like that, then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws.

      Paying attention to just that part of your comment, one of the problems is that Congress is so unresponsive to their constituents and fundamentally broken as an institution people are trying to work around it through putting pressure on the courts and executive departments. This is explicitly not the way this was ever meant to work.

      Our institutions have so many veto points that it's impossible to get anything non-trivial done. The system was built on compromise and an assumption that the infighting would be between branches of governments, not political parties. Today, both parties have realized that you are rewarded for blocking the party in power rather than working with them to come to a consensus.

      Politics has become a zero-sum game. Figure out how to not make it one, and we might get around to fixing a lot of the intractable problems we have here in the good old US of A.

    13. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm suuuuure you would 100% feel the same if they were all conservative-minded instead of the opposite....

    14. Re:I don't get it... by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > That is the current law.

      Except it's not that straightforward. People have the legal right to seek asylum, and even if they are here illegally without seeking asylum they are still entitled to due process and basic human rights under both the US Constitution and international laws.

      What we have here is not law enforcement, it's xenophobia and racism and abuse disguised as law enforcement. The ICE officers are in some ways more criminal than the people they're arresting.

      > But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      That's because such people do not actually exist. Literally nobody is seriously advocating this. Asking that families not be ripped apart and children as young as 3 years old be made to defend themselves in court without representation is not the same as advocating "open boarders."

      > Why do we not support them?

      For the same reason people should never have supported the Schutzstaffel.
      =Smidge=

    15. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Also, this caravan - if it comes to a border point - this is legal asylum seeking.

      Not if it hits a US border point. You don't cross multiple countries to seek 'asylum'.

      The office of refugee resettlement spends about half a billion per year resettling asylum seekers. Trumps camps cost 2 billion in just a few months. Sometimes it is cheaper just being a decent person.

      Hahahahaha, "Trump's" camps? I see you too are a dumbass.

    16. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      What has happened to “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore,”? America is literally built on the backs of immigrants. It's amazing that, as completely screwed up as our country is with political infighting, crumbling infrastructure, horrible and expensive healthcare, lack of adequate social service, and growing ethnic and nationalist sentiments, thousands and hundreds of thousands of people still see the US as the best, safest place to be. You have thousands of people walking 2500 miles for a chance to get into the US. Why wouldn't you want people willing to do that in your country? They'll probably worker harder than most Americans ever would.

      There's nothing wrong with having strong borders, but we should also provide real and accessible ways for people to come to this country legally. The US helped fuck up the Middle East and Central America, yet when people from those regions want to come here because it's no longer safe at home we say "too bad". Allow an actual, meaningful amount of refugees, especially from countries where US supplied arms are killing thousands of people. No "muslim ban" bullshit or overplaying and stoking fears of "gangs". If people want to come here to work, give 'em a 6 month work visa and let them work without having to steal SSNs or get exploited by farmers or meatpackers. They'll still be doing the jobs illegals are already doing but it'll be much more aboveboard. The military is killing for more recruits: you want to become a citizen, sign up, do a term, leave with an honorable discharge, the GI Bill, and citizenship.

      You're worried because people keep wanting to come here. Meanwhile, I won't be worried until people stop wanting to come here.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    17. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do have to show some proof that you require political asylum. From wikipedia:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States

      "
      Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[4] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors."

      It's not just a free claim to make... It will eventually have to be backed up by documents, and in theory, vetted thoroughly.

    18. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed.

      Phrases like "criminal trespass" have a precise legal meaning. Look them up before using.

      Also, no elected federal congressperson is advocating for open borders. No serious politician is either.
      When the constitution was written and for about a hundred years after, there were very few controls on immigration; far less than today. However, just like today, the early immigration controls and border alarmism were born of xenophobia and racism.

    19. Re:I don't get it... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      They do care, that's why it doesn't make sense to you.

      What they want is a system that manages immigration. A system that is humane and gives migrants a path to citizenship that rewards being a productive member of American society. They see that when immigrants are given the opportunity they are often hard working and valuable, and being economic benefits.

      Of course there are some people with ill intent, but the same is true of society in general and it doesn't justify treating everybody badly.

      And of course at the same time they want efforts to be made to improve the situations in the countries that migrants are coming from. Rather than trying to make them pay for a wall, help them fix their problems and build up their economies.

      You may not agree with any of that, but if you can at least understand that they aren't saying just let everyone with no controls or intervention then it would be a better, less polarized discussion. They are actually not that far from you on that point.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweeeping brush is sweeping.

      You have no idea either if the 'vast majority' are simple ll

    21. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The caravan/army/mob is already here.
      It's the late arrivals coming after your great-grandparents that you have a problem with.

    22. Re:I don't get it... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      That has always been the law.

      The problem is that it has been ignored for ages.

      I haven't heard anyone complaining when illegal immigrants opened shops, paid taxes and even created jobs. In some agricultural areas the economy wouldn't work without cheap labor from illegal immigrants.

      There is nothing wrong with setting strict immigration rules and enforcing them. But you can't enforce them at will when it's convenient. Yes, you have to start enforcing it at some point, but if at that point you haven't grandfathered in at least people who have been paying taxes for years (they are willing to contribute, that's the people you WANT to be in your country, no matter where they are from) that backlog will block all your ressources you would need to deal with new immigrants.

      --
      bickerdyke
    23. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We can't even deal with all the citizens in a fair and equitable manner today. How would adding more people to the mix improve the situation? As far as I am concerned, all immigration needs to stop. All illegal immigrants need to be rounded up and expelled. Then, as a country, we need to turn inward to help the citizens we have. Only then can we look outward to help others.

    24. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a narrative on both sides of the political spectrum in every country that if you don't like the current administration, then the law is the enemy and should not be followed. While that has existed at all times, it appears to be gaining more followers in this hyper-partisan time we live in.

    25. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please point to where Emma Lazarus' poem is enshrined in the Constitution, I must've missed that one in law school!

    26. Re:I don't get it... by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 0

      I suspect most of the people making these prank calls are doing so reflexively because Trump is strong on fighting illegal immigration rather than there being an actual thought process behind it.

      It seems like the American left as a whole seems to have fallen into the same, completely counter-productive, reactionary "If you're going to zig, we're going to zag"-mindset that the Republicans fell into when Obama was in office. The fact that the Republicans control both houses and the president's office would suggest that it may work if going by seats gained, but going by actual policy made it obviously didn't work until they got control of it all.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    27. Re:I don't get it... by willaien · · Score: 1

      I care about the borders, but I also care about the people trying to cross the borders. We're taking people who are seeking asylum and stealing their children away from them to scare them away (locking the kids away in facilities that charge thousands per day to hold them, but provide the barest minimum of services to CHILDREN). These are straight up terror tactics, only government condoned.

    28. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Obviously we only want the ones that vote Democrat.

    29. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      people are going to have to see this as the issue it actually is.

      Issues like the fact that Republicans can't stop lying about it to scare their base-Trump's "there might be Middle Easterners in the caravan"(there aren't, and Trump later admitted there aren't) or Pat Robinson's "this might be financed by Soros"(it's not, and he admitted he had no proof of it)?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    30. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or lies like these might be people oppressed by their government and not just opportunists that want something they saw on real housewives of OC on their TV in Guatemala?

    31. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Please point to where Emma Lazarus' poem is enshrined in the Constitution, I must've missed that one in law school!

      Then how about the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." All men, not just Americans. Yet there is a growing portion of this country that seems to think those rights don't apply to people outside the US, that they are less than human.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    32. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, they're going to be shitholes no matter what, as is the case for every single country that isn't majority white or asian (this triggers the NPC, as he can't point to any examples of successful non-white/asian countries, but will instead blame the successful countries for the conditions of said shitholes, as though success were a zero-sum game).

    33. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It used to be that people came to this country in order to integrate and become citizens - "the great melting pot". However, certain cultures in south and central america (and I assume others) are far, far more likely to have people who have no interest in becoming citizens and instead want the better life living here gives, while attempting to not integrate with the rest of society. That is the biggest difference - "the melting pot" made us stronger, what is happening in this situation is dividing us.

      As a side note, the people I know who came from Mexico who became citizens strongly dislike "undocumented"/"illegals" who "jumped the line" to get in the country and have no interest integrating into society.

    34. Re:I don't get it... by sycodon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You mean the Great Grand Parents that came over Legally?

      The ones that went through Ellis Island or any of the other legal ports of entry?

      See the difference?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    35. Re:I don't get it... by chill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Determining who is here "illegally" is a -- wait for it -- legal process. People claiming asylum or who have other legitimate, defined by our law, claims have a legal right to due process and have their case heard and a determination made.

      Separating out who has a legitimate claim versus, say, an economic claim, can take time. This is the entire purpose of the Immigration Court system in the United States.

      Keeping in mind you can't make a claim of asylum unless you're actually on our soil. People who have legitimate asylum claims are frequently prevented by their own governments from leaving by normal means, so sneaking across is often their only recourse.

      I'm not even going to go into the history of the politics of the region, where the United States support for brutal dictatorships in many of those countries helped create the disasters they are today. Nor that much of the drug crime in Mexico is a direct result of the insatiable DEMAND side of the equation from the U.S. and the failed war on drugs.

      To sum up, it isn't a disregard for the law on criminal trespass, but a healthy respect for ALL of our laws around immigration and due process. To me, laws regarding due process are fundamentally more important that quickly deporting unwanted migrants.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    36. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You live in a world of platitudes, not the real world. And a world so focused on the US that you're blind to the rest of the world.

      This country always accepts immigration. But without control it is just chaos. It's no different than the freeway; should we just let everyone onto the freeway when we want? If so, the freeway becomes a jumbled mess. Instead on-ramps have lights letting people on in a measured way, which allows for a more smoothly flowing system.

      And no one wants to stop coming here. The opportunities and freedoms far outpace the rest of the world. India cannot provide opportunities fast enough to feed it's population; they come here to work in biotech and tech sectors. Chinese want to come here because the government is less likely to intrude on your lifestyle and offers far more acceptance of ambitious Chinese women in particular. Middle-easterners want to come here because they are less likely to be persecuted by one group or the next for following the wrong religion or being the wrong ethnic group. Hispanics want to come here because the opportunities for a better life are far more numerous than they are in South America.

      No, most Americans who think our country is difficult or racist or whatever simply have no clue what the world is like. This country is a special place precisely because we debate ad nausem things that are ultimately minor; other countries wish our problems were their problems. While we're out debating the MeToo movement and whether Kavanaugh assaulted someone when he was in high school, China kidnapped and disappeared the head of Interpol, Venezuela is on the verge of a civil war while it's people are starving, Mexico had more deaths due to violence than Afghanistan, a US general is shot in Afghanistan, Myanmar is ethnically cleansing an entire race of people, and Italy is on the verge of such a massive bankruptcy that it could topple the entire European Union.

      Of course people want to come here.

    37. Re:I don't get it... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      Better update the Statue of Liberty then "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" needs to be replaces with "Fuck You, I got mine, go home brownies".

      ... and replace the torch with a middle finger. Once aspect of immigration, largely ignored in the debate, is that while in 2013 Central/South America make up about 70% of the group, Asians 15% and Europe / Canada / Africa / etc. the rest. If people started screaming about the 30% as well the argument and dynamics would change.

      Source: https://www.migrationpolicy.or...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    38. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because no one ever tried to illegitimately seek asylum!

    39. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      However, certain cultures in south and central america (and I assume others) are far, far more likely to have people who have no interest in becoming citizens and instead want the better life living here gives, while attempting to not integrate with the rest of society.

      So give them an easy process to apply for a work visa that expires after, say, 6 months, and a process and criteria to renew that visa (for example go home for a month between visas, stay out of trouble, etc). They'll still be picking vegetables, working in warehouses/meatpackers, and mowing your lawn, jobs Americans arent doing anyway. Will some people skip out? Sure. Others will jump at that opportunity, won't have to live in fear, can work jobs with reasonable pay and conditions without bosses paying them $5 an hour cash under the table and treating them like animals, don't have to worry about being easy crime victims, etc. Win-win for everyone.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    40. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also not legally binding. Next terrible argument, please!

    41. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cross multiple borders to escape the entire region that has violence and poverty issues. The highest number of asylum seekers comes from China. We need to assist those regions in good faith, or expect the flow of people to continue.

    42. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they want is a system that manages immigration. A system that is humane and gives migrants a path to citizenship that rewards being a productive member of American society. They see that when immigrants are given the opportunity they are often hard working and valuable, and being economic benefits.

      There is one, and the USA invites around a million people a year. The process is not as easy as some would like, but it is far more open than most nations. That's just general LEGAL immigration, and honest asylum and emergency sheltering situations add quite a bit more.

    43. Re: I don't get it... by melted · · Score: 1

      Havenâ(TM)t you heard? Orange man bad. Trump can get dems to oppose literally anything, simply by speaking in favor of it. Heâ(TM)s literally trying to abolish modern day slavery by not letting sub-minimum-wage slaves into the country and dems respond with a âoewhoâ(TM)s going to pick our cotton thenâ message, just like they did in 1865.

    44. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are two parties committing a crime. And you focus on only one party.

      It is illegal to employ an illegal immigrant. There are people who employ them. All your anger seems to be at the illegal immigrant and not the employer.

      Logically the employer has a business, and has a lot to lose if prosecuted. Prosecution is civil not criminal. If we spend 10% of the resources spent on the border enforcement on the enforcing the criminal who employs these illegal immigrants, the jobs will vanish and the illegal immigration will stop. Cold.

      Just by employing that illegal immigrant the employer becomes criminal. Even if otherwise he/she is running a legitimate business and pays taxes. I am sure you will go through all kinds of justification why the criminal who employs the illegal immigrant should not be prosecuted.

      On the other hand, the life is so bad in their home country, the people are willing to risk death crossing hostile countries, criminal gangs, fatal desert to come to USA. You want to deter these people who have nothing to lose. How? How much effort would it take to stop people who are willing to die in an attempt to come here?

      Compare that enforcement effort with what it would take to round up the employers, fine them, make the cost of employing illegal immigrant not worth it.

      The criminal employers are largely white. Largely affluent. Politically connected. The criminal employees are largely hispanic. Largely poor. Other than the sporadic support from the powerless Democrats they are not much of a political force.

      I just report the facts. You decide if you are a racist or not.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    45. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      usual nonsensical NPC talking points. (enforcing borders is racist, we have infinite jobs money and resources so we don't need borders etc)

      "They're taking our jobs" is really a shallow and dense way of thinking about the issue and shows a lack of thought- just parroting what you hear from ideologues.

      Immigrants wear clothes (someone has to make, design, sell, market). They eat food (someone has to grow food, make phone, package food, sell food, market food). They have many needs- needs are filled by jobs. Teachers need to teach them. Doctors need to heal them. Entertainers need to entertain them. Having a population CREATES jobs. It may not be one for one, sometimes more, sometimes less- but they have all the needs we have. They also tend to take the lower jobs created and the native population tends to fill the higher jobs created.

      In a way there are "infinite jobs" because the more people you have, the more jobs you need to meet the needs of those people. Now- too many people at once can shock economies- but long term immigration doesn't take away jobs.

    46. Re: I don't get it... by Jahoda · · Score: 1

      It is not a criminal offense to be in the country illegally. Stop spreading your fucking bullshit lies.

    47. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Itâ(TM)s just theft of services, falsifying legal documents and using (er stealing) peoples ssn and identity thatâ(TM)s illegal. Something that surely wonâ(TM)t happen when you are here âoeillegallyâ /s

    48. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If you dont clean up the sugar spilled on the middle of the floor and spend all your time putting ant shield around the house you would be called an idiot.

      But... all the outrage shown by these people against illegal immigration is fake. They want cheap strawberries and cheap fast food and cheap lawn mowing and cheap home construction. If they are really against illegal immigration they will prosecute the employers.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    49. Re:I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ah, 1968, halcyon days...

      On April 4, Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated.

      The Orangeburg Massacre on February 18.

      The Black Panthers emerged, with their own special brand of protests.

      Bobby Kennedy was assassinated on June 5.

      And the Democrat Party National Convention, a festival of peace and nonviolence. Not.

      Yeah, we need more of that like we need a new strain of smallpox.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    50. Re:I don't get it... by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      what has happened

      Nothing. You've been sold a lie as the cause of whatever you perceive to be problems (in an age of a healthy economy and low unemployment to boot.) You think you care, but you don't have a clue as to what your problems are or what's causing them. You just want an "easy" solution that populists can sell you.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    51. Re:I don't get it... by yog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thousands of Middle Easterners and Africans have entered the U.S. via the southern border. What's up for debate is how many of them have ties to terroristic organizations. But the existence of Arabs and other non-Hispanics among the migrants is hardly up for debate.

      It's likely and possible that a handful of the current caravan are of Middle Eastern origin. How can one say for certainty that there aren't, when there is a history of such migrant behavior?

      Regarding the funding and leadership of this group, it is also highly likely that someone with an interest in undermining the Trump Administration would at least be supportive of the caravan if not actively funding and guiding it. The obvious benefit is to create some nasty optics right before the November 6 elections: evil fascist ICE thugs gunning down helpless migrants, separating children from parents, etc.

      The Mexicans have little interest in stopping them, even though actually Mexico has very strong trespassing laws of their own and normally will arrest and hold interlopers in prison, sometimes for years. In this case, they hardly even tried. Clearly, they would like to see the U.S. embarrassed.

      It would appear that the scenario has somewhat backfired; the Republicans have seized on it as an example of Latin America's corruption and Democrat inability to formulate and support effective immigration law.

      https://www.reuters.com/articl...

      --
      it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    52. Re:I don't get it... by splashd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This smacks more of talking points than true factual rebuttal.

      Any discussion on the correct path on immigration must be directed at the default handling, not exceptions. If we get that right we can fine tune exception handling. For the majority of cases, how is due process being circumvented? Due process can be expeditious, and even near assembly-line efficient (I've been to traffic court).

      The "ripping babies from Mama's arms" narrative is more dramatic than factual. In a majority of cases, the minors were not taken from mothers, but dubious/unverified family members, who, at a minimum, endangered them by force marching them under unsafe, risky conditions and used them as unwitting participants in a crime. Even the Moms did this, intentionally, to their children. The result is that these kids were taken and put into the equivalent of day care and/or foster care, not super-max. We can legitimately disagree, on the way to handle the small number of family of illegal immigrants, caught in the act, but if I witnessed an American mom forcing a toddler to walk through desert sun ill-clothed, underfed and dehydrated for hours or days, I'd likely report them to be taken from such inappropriate care, in any case. Compound that with a parent detained for a crime, and it seems like the best choice in this lesser of two evils. What does not seem reasonable is to reward children-as-a-voucher border crossing to create a catch and release scenario, where the illegal immigrant is basically set free into the wild.

      The common ground I'm hopeful we can find is to bring immigration into the 21st century with simplification, more rapid and effective (by whatever filters benefits the US) processing, and more economic cost. Immigration processing should be more like Amazon Prime, not the DMV.

      --
      technical whipping boy, Occam's Strop (think about it...)
    53. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      You live in a world of platitudes, not the real world. And a world so focused on the US that you're blind to the rest of the world.

      This country always accepts immigration. But without control it is just chaos. It's no different than the freeway; should we just let everyone onto the freeway when we want? If so, the freeway becomes a jumbled mess. Instead on-ramps have lights letting people on in a measured way, which allows for a more smoothly flowing system.

      We aren't doing "control", we are trying to do "no immigration". The immigration system is broken and causes illegal immigration. And we have every duty and obligation to take in refugees from countries we helped fucked up. If that's too many countries, well, then that's our fault and we need to stop fucking up countries.

      And no one wants to stop coming here. The opportunities and freedoms far outpace the rest of the world. India cannot provide opportunities fast enough to feed it's population; they come here to work in biotech and tech sectors. Chinese want to come here because the government is less likely to intrude on your lifestyle and offers far more acceptance of ambitious Chinese women in particular. Middle-easterners want to come here because they are less likely to be persecuted by one group or the next for following the wrong religion or being the wrong ethnic group. Hispanics want to come here because the opportunities for a better life are far more numerous than they are in South America.

      If we keep on our current path, people will stop wanting to come here. Either because we will have made this place a terrible place for foreigners to live (which means it would be a terrible place for us to live, too), or the US has fallen from it's place and is no better than wherever they are trying to leave.

      No, most Americans who think our country is difficult or racist or whatever simply have no clue what the world is like. This country is a special place precisely because we debate ad nausem things that are ultimately minor; other countries wish our problems were their problems. While we're out debating the MeToo movement and whether Kavanaugh assaulted someone when he was in high school, China kidnapped and disappeared the head of Interpol, Venezuela is on the verge of a civil war while it's people are starving, Mexico had more deaths due to violence than Afghanistan, a US general is shot in Afghanistan, Myanmar is ethnically cleansing an entire race of people, and Italy is on the verge of such a massive bankruptcy that it could topple the entire European Union.

      You're right that this is what is wrong with our country, albeit not for the reasons I think you think. Our current government, and a lot of the people supporting our current government, don't care about any of those things, or the people in those countries. Why aren't we helping the Rohingya? Giving aid to Colombia to help with all the refugees in Venezuela (about the best we could do, getting actually involved in Venezeula would just make things worse)? Stopping the war on drugs here in the US that helps send thousands of guns and billions of dollars to the drug cartels screwing up Mexico? Telling the government in Kabul to get it's shit together and help them retake the half of Afghanistan that's still controlled by the Taliban? Telling China (and Saudi Arabia) they can't just go around extrajudiciously killing people they don't like? Our current government doesn't care, and its supporters don't care that they don't care. We've lost what made us special, and no amount of MAGA'ing will fix it, it will only make it worse.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    54. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I am not melting into the melting pot.

      I came in legally. I will remain distinct. At least Latin America is Christian. I am a graven image worshiping heathen/pagan. But legal. 100% naturalized. I intend to exercise ALL rights granted to me under the constitution. Freedom of Expression,. Freedom of Relgion. And yes, second amendment too.

      America is a salad bowl, not a melting pot.

      English first? Our motto E Pluribus Unum is not English. It is Latin.

      Go back, learn about America and then talk to an immigrant like me.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    55. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      People DO care about protecting borders. Nobody but maybe a tiny minority of wingnuts wants open borders. The Obama administration deported a lot of people here illegally. They targeted employers who knowingly employed illegal aliens. Because of limited resources, they target criminals. Nobody protested the Obama administration. This wasn't exactly a secret. There were real news articles about it. Chipotle's were raided for illegals. I thought it as a good thing and I still do.

      What's changed is that the Trump administration decided to do things like separate children from parents, and fired up Fascist rhetoric like saying a large amount of Mexican immigrants are rapist or drug dealers. They fucked up the child separation so badly that even months later, they haven't figured out who the children belong with! That doesn't upset you?


      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      Ok, so how do you do that effectively for the millions of people already here illegally? The cost would be staggering, and it'd involve setting up a police state. Is that what you want?

    56. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you really fuck the law, you better be sure your door is lock. We are coming for you, your wife, your kids, your sibling and your parents. Make sure you have enough tequila, and tacos.

    57. Re:I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My great-great-great grandparents came, stood in line, and asked for permission to immigrate. Then they found land in a difficult region, farmed, and prospered.

      On the other side of my family they came from England, carved a farm out of the woods, never met American Indians, and convinced the post-Revolution government to honor the land grant they received from the King of England. From then on they farmed hard, lumbered (both sides did this, odd), sent 19 sons and daughters to wars, smuggled booze, were actual sea pirates, and gave the town they lived in land for the town hall, fire station, high school and middle school, church, meeting house, and parsonage. And finally that line ended, 260+ years after they left England to first find success elsewhere, and then to become Americans. Both sides of my family exchanged the flag of their birth for a new one, and became Americans. Indeed, they left their native flags behind.

      And yes, those here before them certainly considered them invaders, eventually. So yes, I see this mob headed north through Mexico, and waving their native flags, and I see them as nothing but invaders. That they don't carry arms doesn't change that, but it will inform our response at the border.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    58. Re:I don't get it... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Better update the Statue of Liberty then "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" needs to be replaces with "Fuck You, I got mine, go home brownies".

      You are not, but you should be aware that the Statue of Liberty poem was a piece of propaganda when it was written. I happen to agree with the poem, but I know what it is.

      Perhaps we should ask the native Americans what they think of these "blow ins" from across the sea.

      The Native American experience is probably the best example possible of why immigration is a bad thing.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    59. Re:I don't get it... by Ogive17 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Who is advocating wide open borders? The only time I ever see it mentioned is on Fox News or at a Trump rally.

      The liberals simply want to see people treated respectfully.

      I've spent a few months in Mexico.. I'd take the average Mexican laborer over the average American laborer every day. They are willing to work harder for less pay and no bitching. Business owners secretly want this as well and this is why massive immigration reform never seems to get done.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    60. Re:I don't get it... by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Better update the Statue of Liberty then "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" needs to be replaces with "Fuck You, I got mine, go home brownies".

      Gladly. Remove the plaque. It's an albatross around our neck. The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France and meant to shine out as a beacon to spread the idea of liberty across the world. It was not a gift to make America the dumping ground of the world.

      Perhaps we should ask the native Americans what they think of these "blow ins" from across the sea.

      Yes, ask them. Did they have a choice in the matter? If they could choose, would they have prevented the mass migration? The US has that choice.

    61. Re:I don't get it... by magarity · · Score: 1

      I hope there's a new rebellious spirit born in the US and it will look like 1968 all over again.

      You want Nixon elected presidentt?

    62. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Regarding the funding and leadership of this group, it is also highly likely that someone with an interest in undermining the Trump Administration would at least be supportive of the caravan if not actively funding and guiding it.

      I'm sure quite a few people that don't like Trump are supportive of the caravan. But that's not what they were arguing, and that's not what their base would hear. And "supporting" something is different than actively funding or guiding something (which is precisely what Republicans have been claiming they are doing). That why you have people shipping bombs to Soro's house.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    63. Re:I don't get it... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Drunk driving being illegal is also the law of your country but you don't seem to care much about it. That is kind of hypocritical, don't you think?

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    64. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So the country should no longer be guided by the very document that first created it? Good to know America has fallen so far.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    65. Re:I don't get it... by Gilgaron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah I don't see why we can't do a French Foreign Legion thing, let them enlist or sign up for a Depression style civil service and fix the infrastructure, get citizenship. There's plenty of work to be done, the robots haven't taken over yet. Certainly cheaper than these internment camps.

    66. Re:I don't get it... by pak9rabid · · Score: 0

      Because the far-left operates more on raw emotion and sensationalism and less on rational thought. You bring up a well-thought-out and rational point, but they unfortunately won't hear any of it.

    67. Re:I don't get it... by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      fuck the law.
      fuck those who enforce it.
      fuck this country too.

      I hope there's a new rebellious spirit born in the US and it will look like 1968 all over again.

      Hint: You've got a better chance of surviving The Purge if you're a gun-totin' prepper type... not a campus hipster.

    68. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To clarify, are you saying that the statement "It is not a criminal offense to be in the country illegally." is a lie, or that people are spreading this lie and need to stop?

      Because the one of the root words in the term "illegal immigrant" IS illegal. So...therefore, it IS a criminal offense to be in this country illegally.

      And although I am at work and don't have time to track them down, there are federal laws governing immigration. We do not have an open boarder and there are laws governing who can and cannot enter our country. So if your point was the latter, and you are telling people to stop spreading that statement because it is a lie, then I applaud you. If it was the former and you are unaware of the laws governing entering our country, then I have - hopefully - updated your understanding.

    69. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence isn't a legal document.

    70. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the peoples who supply the crack that Hollywood Democrats need.

    71. Re:I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, it's likely there are...

      Which isn't the least unusual, nor new. Trying to argue that any burst of migrants from south of Mexico doesn't include nasty people, like felons or such, is kinda stupid. It's predictable. And it's not even the primary reason to stop them at the border and do the due diligence that is entirely reasonable for a nation with actual borders.

      Remember, this is fortuitous timing for both sides of the debate on immigration. Just keep the popcorn coming, folks.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    72. Re:I don't get it... by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      "Truth is the law allows migrants to present themselves at our borders & seek asylum" - lawyer Lee Merritt

    73. Re:I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 0

      "I am liberal. I do not support 'wide open borders'. I do not know anyone that does."

      I am aware many who support 'wide open borders'. And you are too, unless you've self-censored your info feeds.

      I'm not including Angela Merkel in this, just the American politicians...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    74. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are hundreds of laws on the books in the US that the government does not enforce for various reasons.in fact many laws are not enforced in their entirety and for good reasons. Among the reasons are the disruptions they present to society and detrimental impacts of mass incarcerations, etc. For example whole gambling is illegal in most states the cops are not kicking down the doors of people playing betting on poker games.

      The current immigration enforcement is based on xenophobic ideas of shifting demographics. It has nothing to do with legality. In fact the US government has been moving to limit legal imnigratiob just as well. Further most endorsement actions are targeting communities with high rates of Hispanic populations. There has been few if any mass raids in other communities.

      The fact that the US president ties his policies bto nationalism when many of his staff members have ties to White nationalist groups should show that any other claims are nonsense. The claims that the attacks on immigrants we're solely a law enforcement issue was nice in helping people justify these policies that rip children from their parents, but they are nothing more than cover for racist cover for protecting a race based control of this country.

    75. Re: I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "why should people in a one geographic region control who can come and go to said region"

      This idea is similar, superficially, to the concept of controlling who can come into your home, though for similar and still superficial reasons.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    76. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All they have to do is what they did in 1960, cook (as in county) the books. Just imagine if they hadn't stolen that election, 40 years of NOT naming every scandal "something-gate", and not having endless conspiracy theories over a little shooting in Dallas.

    77. Re:I don't get it... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Democrats are in favor of illegal immigration. Indentured servants to the state all too willing to climb over themselves for a free handout; it's a South American mentality. Essentially, solidified one party in power in perpetuity like the CCP is in China. People vote out of fear of the "benefits" being taken away rather then for any particular candidate.

      When you let illigal immigrants in, what you're really doing is inheriting their problem that spoiled their own nations from which they left. They should be at home reforming their own countries, and that involves a revolution, so be it - NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    78. Re:I don't get it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.
      That is the current law.

      You're conflating legality and morality here. If you are here in this country as a refugee, that should not be illegal, especially since most of those peoples have been made refugees by the results of US foreign policy.

      If folks don't like that, then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws.

      If you're not very smart, or if you're happy with the racist, classist status quo, you might not have noticed that doesn't actually work due to gerrymandering, the electoral college, and the number of seats in the house apportioned to the various states.

      I agree we need to update and fix the immigration laws.

      So you think there's problems with the immigration laws, but you still have a hard-on for total enforcement? You're precisely the same kind of lame-ass tool as James Comey. Precisely.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    79. Re:I don't get it... by dj245 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you dont clean up the sugar spilled on the middle of the floor and spend all your time putting ant shield around the house you would be called an idiot.

      But... all the outrage shown by these people against illegal immigration is fake. They want cheap strawberries and cheap fast food and cheap lawn mowing and cheap home construction. If they are really against illegal immigration they will prosecute the employers.

      As a concrete contractor who only hires legal workers, I welcome this wholeheartedly.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    80. Re:I don't get it... by Z80a · · Score: 1

      Okay, enjoy being a literal slave to disney.

    81. Re:I don't get it... by avandesande · · Score: 1

      A million people each year is not enough? What do you propose?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    82. Re:I don't get it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      as though success were a zero-sum game

      Capitalism as practiced today is a negative-sum game, because it is predicated upon the spending of natural capital more rapidly than it can be replenished.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    83. Re:I don't get it... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      People DO care. A small excessively-boisterous minority of people that respects no rules of civility, and some of whom are being paid to be part of creating the disruption are tyrannizing us as a country.

      These progressives are less than perhaps10% of the population, but they're well-organized and active, being activists is likely their full-time job, And your group doesn't have to have anything close to a majority to use guerilla tactics such as spamming a government hotline with fake calls.

    84. Re:I don't get it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The Native American experience is probably the best example possible of why immigration is a bad thing.

      Emigration wasn't the problem, being conquered by a foreign government was the problem. It's the best example possible not of why emigration is a bad thing, but of why unification is a good one. If the natives had been able to present a unified front instead of fighting with themselves at the same time that whitey was eating their lunch, they could have presented a rational and effective defense against white colonialist rule. Because they were cut off from the rest of the world, they failed to learn the lessons of ancient Greece, and they fell in short order once people with superior technology and organization showed up.

      The people trying to immigrate to this country do not have superior technology, organization, or numbers. The two situations are not remotely comparable, and conflating them is disingenuous.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    85. Re:I don't get it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This smacks more of talking points than true factual rebuttal. [...] In a majority of cases, the minors were not taken from mothers, but dubious/unverified family members, who, at a minimum, endangered them by force marching them under unsafe, risky conditions and used them as unwitting participants in a crime.

      You, sir, are a hypocrite. I need no more than the text above to be completely, utterly, and totally sure of this.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    86. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure we fucked over central America in the 80s. That's one of the justifications for the amnesty back then. We screwed up your country so you came here, fair enough. If 40 years later your country is still run by thugs it no longer our problem.

      Asylum is just the word taught to economic migrants so they aren't immediately put on a bus home. I don't belive it for a second and coaching people on what to say does not help convince me it is anything but a political stunt.

      As for plenty l, I worked my ass off for what I have. You have no right to give it away because you feel sorry for our neighbors to the south.

    87. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, someone dumped you here, that makes it seem like a dumping ground to me because you're trash

    88. Re:I don't get it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This is explicitly not the way this was ever meant to work.

      According to what, and to whom? Humans haven't become appreciably smarter than when the constitution was written. Probably the best way to read it is if it were intentional, and not simply produced by an infinite number of monkeys. If the electoral college seems to blunt the power of large states, and to keep voting power out of the hands of the people, then that's probably precisely what it was meant to do. We actually have writings other than the constitution which spell out this fact in so many words, so that's an easy idea to defend. Why would you imagine that any other aspect of the constitution would be different? The system was deliberately set up to keep specific groups of rich white pricks in power, which is why (like Athens) the USA only gave the vote initially to white male landowners.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    89. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you really fuck the law, you better be sure your door is lock. We are coming for you, your wife, your kids, your sibling and your parents. Make sure you have enough tequila, and tacos.

      And ALL of the proper ingredients for mixer for the Tequila so that we can have some proper margaritas!

    90. Re:I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh, citations:

      https://twitter.com/banditelli...

      https://thehill.com/opinion/im... (this article quotes Keith Ellison repeatedly)

      Only two, I know. Like an iceberg...

      Then the implied and explicit support for open borders:

      https://theweek.com/articles/7... ( Zack Beauchamp exchange with a reader, Tom Stephenson, and later Zach states explicitly he is an open borders supporter)

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/1... (Hillary Clinton 'dreamed of “open trade and open borders” throughout the Western Hemisphere.')

      Hillary seems pretty mainstream Democrat unless you're trying to hide the details.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    91. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      Basically what happened is that it wasn't as heavily enforced for many decades, and everyone began to see all the advantages of not enforcing those laws, and there's been virtually no downside to balance it out and keep the issue nuanced. We now take cheap labor (and food) for granted, and so we start to see tightening immigration controls as being pretty much the same kind of fuckwittery as tariffs and other gratuitous taxes. Adam Smith's invisible hand turned out to be so much better performing for the economy than any liberal's fantasy of central micromanagement.

      At the same time this was happening, the explosive growth of laws governing every second of our days, oftentimes without even our knowledge because it's so vast and complex, has undermined all "respect" (if there ever was any) for the law. (If there's not a cop around and the speed limit is lower than actual conditions demand, who here claims to obey the speed limit?) (If you want to watch a movie that you bought but doing so is illegal thanks to DMCA, do you really abstain from watching the movie that you bought?) Then in 2016 it got to the point where we even elect people who are indistinguishable from mafiosos to the office of presidency, and the previous two presidents, while not overtly acting like criminals and surrounding themselves by criminals all the time, still found ways to subvert congress through their own executive orders, overstepping constitutional authority and getting away with it. And how important is congress anyway? Congress can't even be bothered to do their jobs of confirming SCOTUS justices. And when they do vote on something, you know it's almost always for some corrupt purpose.

      The very Bill of Rights is controversial and there are few people who don't strongly disapprove of at least one of the amendments, usually several of them, and all voting people are happy to chip away at the most basic, fundamental law enforcement. The first amendment? Hated. The second amendent? Also hated. The fourth and fifth? Hated. The tenth? Doesn't even exist. Fuck the law. All are routinely violated. You can't have respect for the law when the government routinely breaks the law.

      Law means nothing to anyone, from the very tip top of government down to you and me. All Americans (at least the voting ones) agree: fuck the law, except whenever that power can be used by oneself.

      Law is whatever you can get away with.

      If folks don't like that, then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws.

      Our congresscritters are running on silly issues and if a third party were to come in and run on law and order, they would be ignored just like third parties are ignored every other election. People don't care about the law and aren't interested in trying to save it. Ask any Republican or Democrat, and they'll tell you: they're going to vote for Republicans or Democrats (or else not vote at all). 95%--no wait, I need to even include the Libertarian vote here--99% of American voters piss on law.

      And it's not something "they" are doing to "us." This is all us. It's what we have all been working towards, all our lives.

    92. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, when did Slashdot get so bootlick-y? I can't believe I'm reading a +5 screed defending ICE on a site for nerdy news.

    93. Re:I don't get it... by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      Moreover it's the law world wide. Does Mexico allow US citizens to cross the border with no consequences? Of course not. Open borders is such a bad idea that it boggles the mind. Break up the US. Allow some states to kill themselves with bad policies, like California, and others to continue on a more sane course.

    94. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Except it's not that straightforward. People have the legal right to seek asylum, and even if they are here illegally without seeking asylum they are still entitled to due process and basic human rights under both the US Constitution and international laws.

      You don't seek asylum at the border, but at the consulate of your home country.

      > What we have here is not law enforcement, it's xenophobia and racism and abuse disguised as law enforcement. The ICE officers are in some ways more criminal than the people they're arresting.

      I don't know what this means. They're enforcing the law. That means forcing people to obey it.

      > That's because such people do not actually exist. Literally nobody is seriously advocating this.

      You just advocated for ICE not to enforce the law and it's not clear WTF you expect them to do with the horde moving towards the border.

      > Asking that families not be ripped apart and children as young as 3 years old be made to defend themselves in court without representation is not the same as advocating "open boarders."

      What are they supposed to do if kids come here with non-relatives and they don't know who to give the kids to because they can't find the parents? Because that's what's going on. I don't want them to get separated, either, but you're not engaging with the realities of the situation there. ICE doesn't make people cross the border illegally with small kids.

      The legal immigration system does need reform. It's hideously expensive and slow. You're left to wait in a huge line with no idea if or when anything will be done to advance your case. You have to live your life around the next actions from the NVC or US consulate. There are real reasons to need reform, but sending a horde to the border is not a way to get asylum.

      You don't appear to know what's actually going on or how the legal immigration system works. I'm in the middle of it. I'm quite familiar with I-130 family petitions, the NVC and consulate. Maybe you should find out more about what's going on rather than just some random headlines and human interest pieces to inform your opinion?

    95. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It certainly is a criminal offense. It is a federal crime to cross the border without permission (bypassing border control). 2nd offense is a felony.

      https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partII-chap227.htm

    96. Re:I don't get it... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In a majority of cases, the minors were not taken from mothers, but dubious/unverified family members

      Citation very much needed.

      Even if it were true, dubious/unverified by whom? Sounds very much like categorising anyone caught up in a drone strike as an enemy combatant because they happened to be near a bad guy.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    97. Re:I don't get it... by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      We can agree that the US policy in South America has been a mess. There are many issues with settling tons of migrants. There are economic issues yes, we don't have infinite resources or jobs. However there are also cultural issues. Let's start with the basics - do they speak the language? Do they have a skill? These are critical points that should not be glossed over.

    98. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, how many of those "caravanners" are you going to host at your house?

      That caravan is doing nothing but getting larger as it works toward the border. 5K were initial estimates, I've heard some pretty scary numbers being projected for when it gets here. Granted, I realize that most are exaggerations, but imagine if we DID have 40,000 "refugees", mostly from Mexico at this point, busting through the border.

      So, lets assume a worst case. 40K. Let's not call it fear, let's call it "what-iffing". What if 40K hits the border, you OK with that? You OK with heaven knows who or what just pouring through (perfect time for anyone with bad intent to sneak through right)? How many lives will be lost (or have been lost already) in this? How many "refugees", how many border patrol agents, or National Guard, or Marines, or whoever gets put there, how many people who LIVE THERE, lawfully in their houses near the border, how many of those people will die? How many people could die if just ONE, just one, terrorist with the means and capability to carry out just one plot makes it through? Just one...

      Is any number acceptable? I don't think so. And I'm sure that a pretty hefty number have probably already died on the trek from wherever they have come from.

      Anyway, long story short, pull your head out of your ass, think beyond your feelings, and consider that the world is not black and white, it is a dangerous place, and there are bad people out there, and that there are LAWS that should be obeyed.

      Should we have compassion for these people? Sure, the ones that are actually in need of our help. Should we give that help by bringing them here. Hell no. Go give them succor closer to where they live so that they don't waste lives coming to a border that they KNOW they should not be able to cross.

    99. Re:I don't get it... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Soros seems to be the new default conspiracy now that Clinton has faded. Used to be that everything was the Clintons secretly orchestrating things, now it's always Soros.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    100. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats are in favor of illegal immigration. Indentured servants to the state all too willing to climb over themselves for a free handout; it's a South American mentality.

      Nationalist much? Republicans and Democrat politicians are both in favor of illegal immigrants because both see them as a larger labor pool. Republican and Democrat politicians want constituents (that vote for them*) that are at least semi-dependent on some sort of handout. The only major difference then is one part is more nationalistic and xenophobic.

      Essentially, solidified one party in power in perpetuity like the CCP is in China.

      No, that happens because on party literally makes all other parties illegal or as in Russia goes around investigate "crimes" of any political adversary while poisoning the rest.

      People vote out of fear of the "benefits" being taken away rather then for any particular candidate.

      People in near all countries vote for Party X because they've always voted for Party X, their parents did, and the country hasn't gotten so bad that they're literally dead. In the US, X happens to be Democrat for ~30% of the population and Republican for ~30% of the population. In countries with one party, legal or functionally so, it's closer to ~60% for that one party and everyone is basically fucked.

      When you let illigal immigrants in, what you're really doing is inheriting their problem that spoiled their own nations from which they left.

      That explains the US which is literally a country of immigrants who took in refuges--you know, people with problems--in mass numbers whether they always labelled them as such. I guess you do have a point, though. Where else did the US inherit its problem of hyper-capitalism, mass exploitation of the environment, and insane Puritanism but from the original founders? Maybe the US should do something about that.

      * Oddly enough, illegal immigrants can't vote. In fact, the bigger issue is that citizens don't vote.

    101. Re:I don't get it... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      It's easy to understand if you see it from the Democrat perspective. Uneducated, low skill workers have a number of benefits. They come here, have an "anchor" babies that have birthright citizenship. They're called anchor babies because the mothers are now securely anchored to the country--you can't easily deport the mothers without causing a huge outcry. Those babies (U.S. citizens) now qualify for benefits: free schooling, free health care, food stamps, and eventually, free college. When those babies are old enough to vote, who are they going to vote for, the Santa Claus Democrats who gave them everything, or the Grinch Republicans who want to deport their parents?

      Also, the fathers are often working under the table, usually for low wages, which helps suppress wages in general, and also contributes to unemployment of U.S. workers. That makes even more people dependent on the government. And guess what else? Many of the fathers never marry the mothers. Typically, if you have a child out of wedlock, and the child qualifies for benefits, the state is going to charge the father some amount to help recoup the costs. You can't do that if the father is a migrant worker and can't be located.

      So in a nutshell, illegal immigrants are a boon to Democrats because it results in more people dependent on the government, which translates to more Democrat voters.

      I'm pro-legal immigrant. I think it should be very easy for anyone to become a U.S. citizen, even low educated, low-skill people. For the most part, people who immigrate here are hard working and want the "American Dream" for them and their families. I don't care about their race, their country of origin, etc., but I do think there needs to be some restrictions. They should be able to pass a criminal background check, they should be employable, and they should be able to pass a basic written English exam--enough to be conversational, but not necessarily fluent. That is for the immigrant's benefit. Not speaking the primary language of the place you're living in is a severe disadvantage.

      I think the best solution to the whole mess would be to end all federal welfare benefits and turn those over to the states. If California for instance wants to have 10 million low-skilled, non-English speaking immigrants that will need California tax-payer funded benefits, more power to them.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    102. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you dont clean up the sugar spilled on the middle of the floor and spend all your time putting ant shield around the house you would be called an idiot.

      But... all the outrage shown by these people against illegal immigration is fake. They want cheap strawberries and cheap fast food and cheap lawn mowing and cheap home construction. If they are really against illegal immigration they will prosecute the employers.

      And if you have a flood outside you would be stupid to mop the floor before putting sandbags around the house.
      You would be dumb to clean the garage floow without fixing the leaky transmission parked above it first.
      You would be a fool to fix the systems damaged by a hacker without securing the network.

    103. Re:I don't get it... by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      Just a guess, but are you one of those people the flyers coming from the Republican Party delivered to my door are aimed at? The ones that say you can't vote for Jack Johnson (D) because he wants to abolish ICE? The ones that are designed to make people think (actually, they usually say it explicitly) that abolishing ICE means abolishing immigration controls and not putting anything in its place?

      My sincere recommendation to you is read what the people you're arguing against are actually arguing. Relatively few are saying they don't care about citizenship or protecting our borders. What they're arguing is:

      1. ICE is full of inhumane shitheads and cannot be reformed. It needs to be abolished with its responsibilities transferred somewhere else, perhaps to agencies structured as they were before 9/11.
      2. Legal immigration, such as asylum, is being handled inhumanely, for example the permanent child separation policies of the current administration.
      3. Illegal immigration is being handled badly and the laws don't reflect the reality on the ground. People are being deported to places that have never been their homes. Others are being encouraged to enter on the sly by one set of forces and deported by another.
      4. Over-zealous enforcement of immigration laws is making it harder to enforce other laws. Women are being deported because they contacted the police after being beaten by their husbands. Entire communities are refusing to report crimes in their neighborhoods for fear of ICE attention. Local governments, with the support of local law enforcement, who have tried to overcome this by not cooperating with ICE (so-called "Sanctuary cities") have been vilified and, ironically, have been criticized as encouraging crime, when their aim was to prevent a focus on a minor crime from preventing them from taking action against serious crimes.

      The Republicans, who control every branch of government, have had two years to introduce humane reforms. If they believed ICE was reformable they could have done it. If they wanted to create a solution for Dreamers et al, they could have done it. They've refused, ideologically, to do so, with those in control of the executive apparently intentionally enforcing the laws in the most inhumane way possible, and with no attempt to change executive policy by Congress.

      Maybe this is what you want. Or not. But reforms that include abolishing ICE, enshrining Obama's Dreamers policy into law, and placing restrictions on the executive's ability to abuse the asylum process as a way to punish refugees are all important to us on the left.

      This is Slashdot so I'm expecting a response that'll ignore what I've written above, condemn me as not wanting borders or some other BS, and so on, but, hey, at least I tried.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    104. Re:I don't get it... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 0, Troll

      Also, this caravan - if it comes to a border point - this is legal asylum seeking.

      The hell it is.

      Asylum from what? The countries they are so proudly waving the flags of? Did Jews escaping Germany wave nazi flags?

      This is a deliberate stunt, to import more democrat voters (for hopefully future elections, but you never know once they get the warm bodies here).

      And it's deliberately timed to coincide with elections. Which isn't the smart move you think it is. Most people don't want lawlessness and chaos, and most people don't want to add more people to the already creaking welfare system.

    105. Re:I don't get it... by cayenne8 · · Score: 0

      Also, this caravan - if it comes to a border point - this is legal asylum seeking.

      Poverty is NOT a reason for asylum.....political oppression, etc...is.

      For 4K or whatever number of folks coming here, the vast majority of them are NOT being politically oppressed or persecuted by their government.

      We need to turn them away....or let them seek asylum in Mexico if they let them through.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    106. Re:I don't get it... by willaien · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter if a handful of people abuse it - it's law domestically (and internationally) that allows people to initially enter illegally, then seek asylum. That's allowed under our current system of laws. The current administration is treating a relatively minor crime (per the criminal code) as a major thing, then using that as an excuse to steal children away from their parents under the guise of discouraging what's the legal equivalent of a parking ticket. Even for people seeking asylum. This is a domestic and international human rights crisis.

    107. Re:I don't get it... by houghi · · Score: 1

      Just because it is a law does not mean it needs to be enforced. Plenty of laws are not enfourced. Otherwise a lot of different people would be in jail.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    108. Re:I don't get it... by cayenne8 · · Score: 0

      Then how about the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." All men, not just Americans. Yet there is a growing portion of this country that seems to think those rights don't apply to people outside the US, that they are less than human.

      1. This is not law of the land, the Constitution is.

      2. The words still are valid, we believe them...we believe you can practice them ANYWHERE you are, but you do not necessarily get to come live HERE to do them. US citizens come first, it is after all, our country. We get to choose who and how many to let in at a time, it is necessary for our country prosperity to continue and grow.

      You have all those rights in the Declaration you just quoted....it is just that nowhere in there does it guarantee you get the practice them here in our land.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    109. Re:I don't get it... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 0

      Who is advocating wide open borders? The only time I ever see it mentioned is on Fox News or at a Trump rally.

      And who's talking about "brown people"? The only time I ever see it mentioned is by leftists, who seem obsessed with race.

      Anytime someone wants less than wide open borders, your lot gets upset. Therefore, you want wide open borders. It's not rocket science.

    110. Re:I don't get it... by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Well ok, that's a good comment. You are right that the experience of the Native Americans facing immigrants is not the same as Americans today. Let's look at a different place and time, and see if we can't find an analogy that is more similar.

      I think Rome, from the period 200bce to 0 probably matches. They had a Republic, and the rules were fairly well set up for the people living in Italy at the time (it lasted for centuries, after all). Then in the later years, as Rome started conquering its neighbors, they started importing people as slaves, servants, soldiers, and workers. Soon there were a lot of people who didn't understand the point of a Republic, and thought a king would be better. Eventually the influx of many people of a completely different demographic (actually many different demographics, but unified in that they didn't understand the Roman Way) brought the downfall of the Republic.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    111. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you assume that these places were paradises before "we fucked them up"? The only reason we intervened way back when in the first place is because leaders at the time viewed them as a threat to us and their own people.

      America is not the cause of the world's problems not matter how much you've been programmed to believe that. The fault, if any can be ascribed, is that we took our own individualist American culture for granted and assumed foreign cultures were capable of quickly adopting it. We've been wrong about that. The solution is not to bring in thousands/millions of people who are fundamentally incompatible with American culture.

    112. Re:I don't get it... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Except it's not that straightforward. People have the legal right to seek asylum, and even if they are here illegally without seeking asylum they are still entitled to due process and basic human rights under both the US Constitution and international laws.

      Poverty and economic hardship are not valid reasons for asylum.

      Political oppression and governmental threats to their lives are reasons....and I'm guessing the VAST majority of the 4K+ caravan on the way here, are not being directly politically persecuted by their governments.

      They're coming for money.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    113. Re:I don't get it... by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Funny

      They don't under international law refuges lose their status as soon as they set foot in a nation where they are safe from whatever specific force they are fleeing.

      Unless you want to conceede Mexico is a failed state that cannot be accountable for protecting citizens there; than no non-mexican having passed thru Mexico can arrive at our southern boarder as a legitimate asylum seeker.

      They are therefore simply illegal immigrants. When they are organized even minimally, as they are in this caravan they become invaders! Mexico allowing an invasion force to proceed thru its territory on the way to our boarder is an act of war and it should be treated like it!

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    114. Re:I don't get it... by hey! · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      Let me give you a liberal perspective on this: you are raising a straw man. We have no problem with protecting the border, the problem we have is with using scapegoating and scare-mongering, and bullshit waste of resources like building a wall. If you want to see the source of our problems, it's rich guys buying politicians, not Mexicans sneaking across the border to pick crops.

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      No, "trespass" has a specific meaning in law, and an unauthorized crossing of the border does not match that, even if it feels like tresspassing. And even as it were, the law allows people to enter your land against your wishes under certain circumstances. If a neighbor goes on your posted land to hunt, that's trespass. If he goes onto your posted land to escape a home invader, it's not trespass.

      Treaties the US imposed on other people after WW2 also bind us when it comes to handling asylum seekers. We don't have to help them get here, but we do have to give them due process and administrative help when they get here, even if they sneak across our borders. It's actually the government that is breaking the law by turning asylum seekers away at the border without a hearing, which of course means they sneak across, which makes policing the border that much harder.

      But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      That was how we did immigration up until 1927. You showed up at Ellis Island, were checked for disease, promised you weren't an anarchist and they'd ship you over to the docks at Battery Park and let you go anywhere you wanted. The 1927 quotas were proposed by eugenicists, who were worried that the influx of Jews was lowering America's collective IQ.

      Now if you were Mexican, you weren't part of the quota system. You could still walk across the border until 1965. That was because business interests needed the cheap labor. What changed in 65 was the rise of the United Farm Workers. Now this *might* just be coincidence, but if you look at how the'65 restrictions were enforced, they did not stem the influx of immigrants, so much as put those immigrants outside the protection of the law and made it harder for them to organize. The government didn't go after farmers hiring Mexicans, they went after the Mexicans. And the Mexicans they deported would be immediately replaced by other Mexicans, because there was a job waiting for them.

      Now restrictions on employers have become stricter, but we still have a system which is dependent upon immigrant labor, but puts those laborers outside the protection of the law. That's the problem with the tip line; it's a tool for payback against people with no rights of due process. This is the problem of immigration in the US: the hypocrisy of the whole system corrupts things that would otherwise be a good idea.

      What good does building a wall do if you can just pay someone to wave you through? And yet the demand for immigration security theater has the agency relaxing screening standards that are supposed to catch cartel infiltrators, in an agency that already has a stunning 5% corruption rate. Immigration security theater undermines national security.

      Now change the immigration so it allows for the immigrant laborers we actually need and keeps the people who've been here for years peacefully

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    115. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This current country was created by the Constitution, not the Articles of Confederation, nor the Declaration of Independence, nor some silly poem on a statue. Do they even teach civics at your high school anymore? They obviously don't teach how to argue without silly appeals to emotion.

    116. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      those people need to fix things at HOME and stay there....

      Damn! I wish the natives told the Europeans that when they came over!

      That said, I do hope that Trump does stop this 'caravan'. When I saw them tear down the fences in Mexico*, I was thinking Trump can't that happen here. He better not! It was just the proof he needed when he said they are violent. Indeed they are.

      *Another demonstration of Mexican corruption and ineptitude.

    117. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, our meddling didn't help. And look at say, Venezuela, where we also didn't toss out the socialists - how're they doing? Specious argument. Our screwups didn't create the sloth and poverty, the people did that. And they want to bring that culture here and not assimilate - those aren't US flags they're waving on the way in, are you blind? Yes, there are plenty of LEGAL immigrants who are doing fine and many of us love having them here - they are now Americans, and that's great. But assuming we can become the welfare state to those who in that caravan are better dressed and equipped already than our own poor is just ignorant.

    118. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It is not a flood coming in indiscriminately. It is people seeking jobs, the way ants seek sugar.

      Prosecute the employers, who are criminal by the very act of employing illegal immigrants. Simple civil prosecution, fines, make cost of employing illegal immigrants more expensive than hiring legal immigrants and citizens.

      Ahhh. You wont do it. Because these criminals are white and affluent. You would rather fight the weak, poor, people willing work harder than any one for a pittance.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    119. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "mob"

      Fear. Fear. Fear.

      They don't want to go through the proper channels or or asking for asylum? And oyu know this on no evidence?

      All you people have is fear and paid propaganda over social media.

    120. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up +5, Liberal rhetoric!

    121. Re:I don't get it... by DarkOx · · Score: 0

      1) The Declaration of Independence is not a controlling legal document.

      2) Its possible to hold the views espoused in that document (I do) without also feeling its your personal or national responsibility to secure those rights to others (I don't). Anyone fighting for those rights is justified and righteous; that does not automatically make their fight my own.

      3) The Preamble of the Constitution (our actual controlling legal document) defines the reason of the rest of the document. It is import context in which the rest of the Constitution should be read. It contains the language "...secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" note that it does not say "to everyone" or "all people" its in fact quite exclusive. The reason for the United States government to exist is specifically to keep these blessing available to US citizens and their children. To go beyond that is to exceed its mandate.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    122. Re:I don't get it... by sootman · · Score: 1

      Well, there are two problems here. (Actually, there are a thousand, but I'll just talk about two.)

      First is the recent problems. You do know that ICE has deported people who are here legally, right? And it has deported people who were TECHNICALLY here illegally but lived here 20 years, paid taxes, etc.? And tore apart families, etc.? THAT is why people are pissed at ICE at the moment.

      And secondly,
      > I think we could look to encourage more immigration from those that are educated
      > and can come to the US and help the workforce and economy right away. ... wow. Yeah, I'm sure all those educated people want to come here and pick lettuce and do roofing and build houses and do all the other shit work that illegals currently do. And I'm sure all the educated citizens here would be happy to pay more for their lettuce, knowing it was picked by educated, legal workers.

      When people say "we need to keep terrorists out!!!!111" what they really mean is "we need to keep brown people out!!!!!11"

      Yes, we should protect our borders. But we don't have to be dicks while we do it.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/1...

      My father is undocumented but has lived in the United States since 1998. He has raised four children, all American citizens, on income from construction work. He pays his taxes and plays by the rules. He himself has been a perfect citizen -- although, of course, he can't call himself that... My dad wanted to follow the rules. He has been trying to adjust his status with the help of relatives since 2001. [emphasis mine] We filed the correct paperwork, paid the fees and lined up all his references, only for my dad to be dragged out of a little office and locked up. ICE could have chosen to grant my dad his residency, per the suggestion of our immigration officer. Instead, my father, a man who has filed his taxes every year, has no criminal record and is the sole provider for four children, wasn't even put out on monitor or bond. He is still being held in a detention center in Aurora, Colo., and is awaiting deportation proceedings unless ICE grants him the cancellation of his removal.

      THAT is why people are pissed at ICE these days.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    123. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up -- we made a hell of a mess in Central and South America by supporting Fascists. Who do you think funded the Dirty Wars in South America. Remember Arbenz in Guatemala?

      Obviously it was our tax money which was used in this way against our will. The ruling class screws up those countries and benefits from it, and then their solution uses emotional blackmail to screw up this country, which it also benefits from. We're all victims of the same people that are turning us against each other.

      As for a solution, throw those responsible in prison, and send aid in the form of money and expertise to help those places be rebuilt. You can't solve world poverty by importing it.

    124. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, you and the leftist mob still don't get why the majority of Americans (including Hispanics and PoC) are not with you on illegal immigration.

      It's not unfounded fear. It's sane, rational, fear supported by facts. Violence, drugs, disease, crime, loss of job opportunities.

      Address those issues and maybe you won't automatically lose the next 3 presidential elections.

    125. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand what your grievance is. How exactly do illegal immigrants affect you personally? Most illegals are not actually criminal, but aside from the non-violent victimless crime of being an illegal immigrant. They are not taking jobs from legitimate Americans, but do the work that no one wants to do. The work needs done.

      So what is it exactly that rubs you wrong? How does their presence affect YOU personally, besides the fact that you are obviously an insufferable bigot, and do not actually give a shit about the principle of the matter?

      Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
      With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
      Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
      A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
      Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
      MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
      Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
      The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

      "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
      With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
      Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
      The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
      Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
      I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

      Let's not forget that at some point, ALL AMERICANS (other than descendants of Native Americans) TODAY SOURCE THEIR PRESENCE HERE FROM ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Real Americans are charitable. Real Americans are not bigot assholes. Be American, not a racist piece of shit. Thank you.

    126. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to rant about Russia, dipshit.

    127. Re:I don't get it... by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      Like the Koch brothers that the left throws out?

    128. Re:I don't get it... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      The statue is French, the poem was added later through a private effort. A decoration is not policy

    129. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up -- we made a hell of a mess in Central and South America by supporting Fascists. Who do you think funded the Dirty Wars in South America. Remember Arbenz in Guatemala?

      Again, if you believe that, how many illegal immigrants are you willing to support in your home?

    130. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue with the caravan has little to due with terrorists and has everything to do with not letting the US clean up after the fuckups of other countries all the damn time.

      The more important point is how people are conveniently ignoring the internationally accepted methods and processes for seeking asylum. In this case a group of people are attempting to cross the length of Mexico to seek asylum in the United States from countries like Honduras and El Salvador. They're also doing so due to economic hardship in their home countries rather than “owing to external aggression, occupation, foreign domination or events seriously disturbing public order in either part or the whole of his country of origin or nationality, is compelled to leave his place of habitual residence in order to seek refuge in another place outside his country of origin or nationality.”

      The refugees have already reached safety once they left the country (against assuming it's legitimate refugee status and not due to economic hardship) and thus it should have been Guatemala's responsibility for accepting and handling the refugees applications. Guatemala may not be the ultimate end destination for the refugees as they may not be able to actively handle that influx but there are UN organizes setup to help refugees access other countries willing to take them.

      Gaining refugee status is pretty straightforward. You make the request at the first country you enter when you flee your country. For the US this pretty much means you have to be a Mexican or Canadian at the land border (likely to be refused), come in by boat, come in by plane (highly unlikely), or make the request at a US embassy or consulate.

    131. Re:I don't get it... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Gandhi and MLK perfected the art of non-violent civil disobedience. That's what we need. We can disrupt corporations and plutocrats' comfy lives without hurting people. Block traffic, boycott stores, strike, wake jerks up at 3am with 500 bullhorns. You might get 10 days in jail, but nobody is physically injured.

    132. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As yours drive you with guilt and the promise of "free" stuff.

    133. Re:I don't get it... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      There is no right to trespass. Trespasserphobia is not a disorder. Pathological altruism is though.

    134. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comment fell apart around the '...I'm guessing....' portion.

    135. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no difference you sausage-fingered little fuck

    136. Re:I don't get it... by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      The caravan/army/mob is already here.
      It's the late arrivals coming after your great-grandparents that you have a problem with.

      So you think it's the same thing? Does that mean you feel we should be afraid of them? I mean, how well did the natives do against our "great-grandparents?"

    137. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Thousands of Middle Easterners and Africans have entered the U.S. via the southern border.

      I'll take them over my diabetes-infected red-state fuckhead neighbors with no education and fewer teeth any day of the fucking year.

    138. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anytime someone wants less than wide open borders, your lot gets upset. Therefore, you want wide open borders. It's not rocket science.

      Citations needed. I've never met any of these 'wants less than wide open borders' people.

    139. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wilfully ignorant, because you have an agenda.
      I advocated stopping the flood from entering AND cleaning up the mess. NOT ignoring the mess and building a wall.
      See, the engine oil seeks the path of least resistance to the garage floor, through the gasket's weakest point. fix the gasket AND clean up the floor.
      Stop the floodwaters from coming through the point of egress AND mop the floor, but htere is no point cleaning up the inside until you stop the inflow. Get it now?

    140. Re:I don't get it... by crunchygranola · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oh, every one of your ancestors came through after 1891. Understood.

      Prior to the Immigration Act of 1891 all anyone (who was not Asian) had to do to immigrate to the U.S. was show up at the border (or any port). And prior to 1875 even Asians could immigrate freely.

      In 1891 the U.S. population was 61 million. Anyone who has even one ancestor who was resident in the U.S. in 1891 is descended from someone who only had to show up to get in - everyone was automatically "legal".

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    141. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same number of babies you're willing to adopt when abortion is outlawed

    142. Re:I don't get it... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Someone's a Big Fan of the Hound on Game of Thrones.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    143. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. If they started throwing employers in federal prison for 10 years (and I mean actually doing it), you'd only have to do it a few times before no one would even take the chance of getting caught.

      And also, the fines need to be crippling. Something like 100% of your profits for any year you were found to be employing even a single illegal.

      Right now, IF an employer gets punished at all, it's a slap on the wrist fine that they just write off as part of the cost of doing business.

    144. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      While it is noble to take our great wealth and resources to help others around the world, we can NOT support the whole world and cannot house or bring everyone and their goat into our country.

      There's no control over the border between California and Nevada. If someone from Nevada wants to live in California then they just go live there with no need for any kind of formal bureaucratic approval. But I wouldn't necessarily say that the great wealth and resources of California are being used to support the people of Nevada.

      Or, on a smaller scale, there's no wall or border between the poor neighborhoods in south-central Los Angeles (Compton, Watts, etc.) and the wealthy neighborhoods to the northwest of Los Angeles (Beverly Hills, Malibu, etc.). But, again, I wouldn't necessarily say that the great wealth and resources of Malibu and Beverly Hills were being used to support the people of Compton and Watts.

      And then there's the European Union where there's huge freedom for people in Europe to move around between countries. And that's not to say that everything in Europe is perfect. But it certainly hasn't been catastrophic either. Some of us are even old even to remember the re-unification of East Germany and West Germany which was not entirely without problems but which was hardly catastrophic.

      So, while neither I nor anyone else knows for certain what would happen if the USA adopted completely open border, there are compelling reasons to predict that it wouldn't be catastrophic. Even just looking at the raw numbers, the population of Mexico is about 1/3 the population of the USA. So even if every single person in Mexico moved to the USA, that would only increase the population of the USA by about 30% which, again, hardly sounds catastrophic.

      If it were up to me, I'd be be tempted to try completely open borders just to see what happened. All this drama has me a bit intrigued and curious. But that's not something I feel particularly strongly about.

      It does seem overwhelmingly cleat, though, that people who claim that it would be catastrophic for the USA to completely open it's borders are basing that opinion on irrational fear rather than factual observation or logic reasoning.

    145. Re:I don't get it... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      No...just the Great Grandparents the AC mentioned.

      Aren't you paying attention?

      But if you want to talk about all that shit. Just which immigration office should all those people have shown up at?

      Ohhh! That's right. There were none. But now we have them so people need to use them.

      Or maybe your argument is no borders, no immigration laws, nothing.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    146. Re:I don't get it... by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      It used to be that people came to this country in order to integrate and become citizens - "the great melting pot"

      The melting pot happened, but is it really what people were trying to do?

      However, certain cultures in south and central america (and I assume others) are far, far more likely to have people who have no interest in becoming citizens and instead want the better life living here gives, while attempting to not integrate with the rest of society.

      As a native-born white US citizen, I'm not sure that's any difference than my attitude, either. Nobody wants to get assimilated. ST:TNG had a whole villain civilization based on that! And whether you want it or not, the Borg nailed it with with "resistance is futile." It happens, even if everyone tries to prevent it.

      If I could continue to live here in America but without the responsibilities of citizenship and not having to add weird arbitrary cultural baggage to my life, how bad would that be? Some of society I wanna integrate with, but I'm probably like every single other person reading this, in that I'd rather avoid integrating with the other 90% of society. Sturgeon's Law applies. 10% of America is still a big fuckin' country full of a lot of fun, though. Stugeon's Law isn't bad; it's just how things are.

      "the melting pot" made us stronger, what is happening in this situation is dividing us.

      No, this'll make us stronger too. No matter who you are, I bet you anything that 10% of the new people have some great food. And that's how it will start. 100 years from now, they'll be just another cuisine, like Italian and Mexican and like how one of Texas' best-known beers is a .. bock?! (WTF, it might not be a good bock but it's sure as hell not yet another light American lager.)

      Next time you call this a bad thing, I want you to buy a time machine ticket to a 2118 restaurant. You'll see. It'll be fine.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    147. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... invaders (and pirates apparently) are ok as long as they are your family, but theyâ(TM)re a horrible threat when theyâ(TM)re someone elseâ(TM)s family. Naked tribalism then. You appear to admit that you donâ(TM)t belong here any more than they do (after all, despite the crazy-eyes delirium the President is trying to instill, the plans of the caravan seem to be for most of them to seek work in Mexico and some to apply, legally, for asylum in the US).

      Letâ(TM)s face actual reality here. As many people as are currrently in the caravan illegally enter the US every five days. The caravan wonâ(TM)t get here in less than a month, so six times as many people as are in the caravan will get into the country in the meantime. So, even if everyone in the caravan illegally crosses the US border (which isnâ(TM)t happening) it will just be a blip in the numbers. So why is Trump making such a big deal about it? The obvious answer is because it lets him set up a straw man attack on Democrats. The whole thing is a total non-event (in the lives of avarage US residents anyway, it is obviously significant for the people in the caravan).

      So, whatâ(TM)s the rationale for blocking these people? They obviously have a lot of drive. Theyâ(TM)re walking thousands of miles, for crying out loud. Theyâ(TM)re going through a filtering process that produces the kinds of hard-working immigrants that you claim your ancestors (those that werenâ(TM)t disgusting, violent thieves) were. By all reasonable metrics, even if they receive some social services, they would be a net benefit to the economy and general well being of the US as a whole.

    148. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When are these russian trolls going to be banned?

      Sure if you are on-the-out politically their diversions, divisiveness, and in this case, forcing others to prove one of dozens of claims, then ignoring proof, really is useful to the political minority. But really, we already got 4 years of Trump out of it. Can we really afford 4 more?

      Ban them.

    149. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am equally offended that I am reading +5 screed promoting leftist bullshit like a hatred of securing borders and following laws that allow for civil society, but here we are.

    150. Re:I don't get it... by crunchygranola · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No one before 1875 needed "permission to immigrate" you only needed a boat ticket, and it was only Asians who were excluded then, Europeans just needed that boat ticket until 1891, when the first immigration system was set up. Since you specify ancestors five generations back you are specifying people who came through around 1860 or so.

      So this story you tell is founded on BS. And the bit about "never met American Indians" is fairly astonishing. You know that for a fact? How?

      So you self-justifying story of totally legal and approved ancestors who never did anything wrong is a fairy tale.

      And right, Europeans who came to the U.S. never celebrated their country of origin (cough, cough, NY St. Patricks Day Parade).

      What is that unarmed invading army of women and children (mostly) going to do when they reach the border? They are going to request asylum under U.S. law as they are legally permitted to do once they reach U.S. soil. OMG Invaders!

      Trump has already said he plans on calling out the military to deal with the situation - just as you seem to endorse. I guess rather than taking asylum applications, the plan is to open fire?

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    151. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I would prefer to fix the transmission without having to lie in a big puddle of transmission fluid, thanks.

    152. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except he IS a billionaire activist that actively participates in funding far left causes, so if the shoe fits...

    153. Re:I don't get it... by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      No, current law is that when they reach the U.S. border they can legally make an application for asylum, and while that is being processes (including extreme vetting by the way, not Trump did not invent it), they are allowed to legally remain on U.S. soil. That is the actual law.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    154. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best solution: deport and turn away the migrants and send these business owners south. Their equipment confiscated and auctioned off to more patriotic operators of course.

    155. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2nd offense is a felony, the opposite of a "minor crime". What percentage of this caravan have already entered illegally before or would not hesitate to enter again if sent home this time?

    156. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The modern democratic zeitgeist is that all rights have limits.

      Why are we arguing that people should have the unlimited right of migration? What is wrong with punishing people that break the law?

    157. Re:I don't get it... by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's your point?

      They came in legally back then.

      How many other 1891 era laws do you want to go back to?

    158. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how some people love to agree with Trump...."Fake News Media, it's all fake, them CNN, axios, Buzzfeed and NBC and them other a-holes just spout up lies all the time"

      Until the news media report on something you agree with. Sure, it comes from axios. They are reporting what DHS says, they are not claiming what DHS says is true. But you are trusting the fake news media on this story because it somehow validates your own beliefs/opinions?

      The timing is off also: Interestingly, Trump was forced to admit he had absolutely no proof to back up what he said about the people who make up the caravan. Then, voila! DHS report comes out.

    159. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it weren't for their double standards, leftists would have no standards at all...

    160. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL - Diabetes..no education.. fewer teeth.

      Are you trying to be ironic?

    161. Re:I don't get it... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      The problem is that a hotline doesn't help with that at all. Seriously - if you were a victim of a crime, your probably don't even know the name and address of the perpetrator, much less their immigration status. So call the police - that's what they're there for.

      That means anyone calling the hotline will almost be reporting someone with dark skin and or speaking a non-English language - the vast majority of whom are either legal immigrants or multi-generation Americans.

      If we really want to stop the illegal immigrant problem then we should attack it at its source - the people hiring illegal immigrants. Make it a felony to hire an illegal immigrant, with everyone involved in the process, *especially* the executives , paying stiff fines and probably spending time in prison. The market for illegal immigrant labor would dry up almost overnight, and there would no longer be a compelling reason for illegal immigrants to want to come here.

      That we *don't* do that exposes the real nature of the situation - lawmakers are fine with people hiring cheap illegal labor, but they also want to fan the flames of racism for election points.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    162. Re:I don't get it... by qbast · · Score: 2

      Yes, they are free to pursuit their happiness somewhere else. Could you point to the place where it grants everybody in the world the right to come and mooch from US?

    163. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Native American experience is probably the best example possible of why immigration is a bad thing.

      Emigration wasn't the problem, being conquered by a foreign government was the problem. It's the best example possible not of why emigration is a bad thing, but of why unification is a good one. If the natives had been able to present a unified front instead of fighting with themselves at the same time that whitey was eating their lunch, they could have presented a rational and effective defense against white colonialist rule. Because they were cut off from the rest of the world, they failed to learn the lessons of ancient Greece, and they fell in short order once people with superior technology and organization showed up.

      The people trying to immigrate to this country do not have superior technology, organization, or numbers. The two situations are not remotely comparable, and conflating them is disingenuous.

      Posting as AC because I'm mod'ing. You are mostly wrong here. Most of the natives in the Americas were wiped out by disease before ever seeing an European. 90% according to many estimates. You are right about what happened to the survivors of those diseases but those societies were shattered before any real interaction occurred between Europeans and Native Americans. What the Europeans encountered were empty or depopulated villages and greatly weakened societies that never recovered. What happened after that wasn't good or fair but no matter how it could have gone, the simple fact remains that those native societies were already broken by disease and the final outcome was never going to be good for the natives.

    164. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deport the immigrants and deport the employer too. Confiscate their equipment and auction it to people who hire American citizens, of any race.

    165. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      You don't get it because there's a lot of misconceptions in your post.

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      The big stories about things like the kids being caged at the border are people requesting asylum that were arrested before they could make their formal request.

      This happens because the "it's illegal to enter the US without permission" and "you can enter the US to request asylum without permission" are both on the books. And there are several other contradictions in immigration law which allows people to either stay or be deported based on what ICE feels like at that particular moment.

      Law enforcement based on what ICE feels like at that particular moment is not a good system.

      I think we could look to encourage more immigration from those that are educated and can come to the US and help the workforce and economy right away.

      There's actually a large shortage of farm workers. US people won't do the work for the wages farmers want to pay. So poorly-educated and impoverished Central American farmers can help the workforce and economy right away.

      And this is actually the way farming has been done in the US for more than a century. Farmers import undocumented labor and they work the harvests, moving Northward as the year moves on, including into Canada. Then they went back home for the winter. As we ramped up anti-Latino immigration as a campaign tactic, we made it harder to re-enter the country like this. So the workers started staying in the US for the winter.

      Long story short, our economy and food supply have always relied on undocumented workers. There is not a sudden crisis. There is the need to turn out angry white voters for one political party.

      There will be some lower educated types too, as that all levels are needed, but the ratio needs to be controlled.

      Why? Immigrants (from all education levels) end up making far more money and die far wealthier than equivalent US people.

      Think about it: You are willing to leave everything at home and walk 2,000 miles, much of it through desert that will try very hard to kill you. If you are so driven that you do that, you are driven enough that you will bust your ass at any job you get once you arrive. You aren't going to say "Ok, that's done. Time to sit on the couch forever". Because if you're the kind of person who would plop on the couch forever, you won't make it through that journey.

      The thing that made the US great was that we imported all of the driven people who didn't happen to be born well off, and then waited for those people be successful.

      So no, we don't need to control that ratio. The people that are able to make it here will do just fine.

      But I just don't get these seemingly increasing number of folks in the US promoting full blown open borders, with no control of who gets in here.

      That's because it's a caricature designed to turn out votes for Republicans. It doesn't really exist. The proposals that are the most "open border" still require background checks and investigations of immigrants, rejecting the "bad hombres".

      You don't get it because you are not supposed to get it. None of the rhetoric makes sense or is internally consistent. "Those 2-year-olds have to be kept in cages because they're stone cold MS-13 killers who are going to invade your town and kill you in your sleep....while sitting around doing nothing and mooching off public services" (which, btw, they can not get because they can't qualify without an SSN).

      It's designed primarily to make you afraid and get you to pull the lever for anyone with an R after their name on the ballot.

      The secondary goal is to stifle debate on the issue, so that any attempt to discuss reforming this horrific dystopia of contradictory laws where children who can't read yet are suppos

    166. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Do that. Dont say that anonymously in some website.

      Demand politicians to say it and do it. I dont see of the politicians being strong on employer side enforcement. So I conclude it is all vote gathering technique.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    167. Re:I don't get it... by MooseTick · · Score: 2

      There were literal boatloads of Jews seeking asylum prior to WWII and the US turned them away and sent them back to Germany. This was the law. This was also not a time that the US shined. We can do better, but I fear we probably won't.

    168. Re:I don't get it... by gman003 · · Score: 1

      My personal opinion as someone firmly on the "dismantle ICE" side:

      Controlling immigration and the borders is a legitimate action and responsibility of the government. I am not in favor of open borders with Mexico or other Central/South American countries. (Open borders with Canada would be a different story - though still not unlimited immigration, just visa-free travel for Canadian citizens to the US, and vice versa).

      However, the immigration enforcement currently being done is vastly more harmful than the benefit it brings. ICE has become more about discouraging illegal immigration through violent punitive action than about enforcing the laws. It's about making illegal immigrants suffer. For fuck's sake, they've built concentration camps in the Texas desert. They're separating children from parents. What is the point of that beyond making people suffer? How is that not an intrinsically evil act?

      There's also the consideration on the rights of citizens. As part of the general push towards stricter border enforcement, the Fourth Amendment no longer applies within 100 miles of a border or coast. ICE (and Border Patrol, and the Coast Guard) no longer require a warrant or probable cause to search anyone they suspect of violating immigration or customs laws. That is a pretty big fucking deal! For that to be even remotely worth it, illegal immigration would have to be causing absolutely devastating damage to the US.

      But it is not. Every study I've seen has concluded that illegal immigrant communities have lower crime rates (both general and violent crime) than comparable native-born communities. They typically pay taxes but rarely utilize public services - which stands to reason, since their goal is to remain low-profile. While they have a depressing effect on wages, at least within the region and industry, they have a broadly neutral effect on employment - they provide workers, but also supply demand that creates about as many jobs as they take. That is enough to justify having controlled immigration (rather than unlimited), and to enforce those laws in the same manner as other nonviolent crime. Treating unlawful immigration as a crime comparable to, say, tax evasion, is perfectly reasonable. Treating it as though it were an act of war, not so much - and yet that's what we're currently doing.

    169. Re:I don't get it... by Unnamed+Chickenheart · · Score: 1

      > "If countries, such as in South America are having such problems,.....we can't bring everyone here, those people need to fix things at HOME and stay there....."

      Just wait a few decades for when the climate change hits. U.S. will be a VERY popular place to be! :)

      --
      urd
    170. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is advocating wide open borders? The only time I ever see it mentioned is on Fox News or at a Trump rally.

      And who's talking about "brown people"? The only time I ever see it mentioned is by leftists, who seem obsessed with race.

      Anytime someone wants less than wide open borders, your lot gets upset. Therefore, you want wide open borders. It's not rocket science.

      That's called a false dichotomy. Here we go again with the "wide open borders" bullshit. Sorry, but as much as you need to believe that to be true, it's just not. No one is really calling for that.

    171. Re: I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "it was only Asians who were excluded then"
      And, so, you dispute your own statement...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    172. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      So give them an easy process to apply for a work visa that expires after, say, 6 months, and a process and criteria to renew that visa

      We used to have such systems. Then "fear the brown hordes" became a useful campaign slogan.

    173. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What color is your cleaning lady?

    174. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      The melting pot isn't about you. It's about your grandchildren.

      Immigrants remain somewhat distinct. Their children mostly assimilate but still are a bit of a bridge. Their children completely assimilate.

      Your grandchildren will be indistinguishable from any other American. That is the melting pot.

    175. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cross multiple borders to escape the entire region that has violence and poverty issues. The highest number of asylum seekers comes from China. We need to assist those regions in good faith, or expect the flow of people to continue.

      how do they get here from china? do they walk across countries, or do they take a boat or plane? the answer matters.

    176. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The only time I ever see it mentioned is by leftists, who seem obsessed with race.

      Believe it or not, we are able to notice you are not talking about "building a wall" to keep out the Canadians. Or Asians (~15% of undocumented workers). Or Europeans (~25%).

      We also notice that the countries that are not "Shitholes" just happen to contain people who are very pale skinned.

      There's a pretty obvious pattern here. Especially when you protest too much when called on it.

    177. Re:I don't get it... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      The melting pot happened, but is it really what people were trying to do?

      Yes, for many of them.

      Nobody wants to get assimilated. ST:TNG had a whole villain civilization based on that!

      Assimilation by the Borg meant giving up your literal identity, your consciousness, to become part of the hive mind. Assimilation in terms of immigration simply means learning the language and adopting the prevalent values of the host society.

      I mean I can't say I'm surprised that someone on slashdot would make a Star Trek analogy, but good lord is it a bad analogy. If THAT actually plays a role in your thoughts about immigration, please reconsider and get a more accurate view of what people who favor assimilation are actually talking about.

      No, this'll make us stronger too.

      Sure it will make us stronger in some areas, like food as you mentioned. It will make us weaker in some areas that I think are far more important, like GDP per capita and quality of schools.

      I like arepas and Peruvian chicken. Sure. But let me ask you, do you have kids? Do you have schools near you where you can see the decline in test scores over the past 20 or 30 years as the percent of FRL (free or reduced lunch, a measure of povert) and ESL (English as a second language) kids has increased? Now that I have kids, I want good schools, the same good schools that I had growing up that are being / have been destroyed by negative demographic change. This is happening all over the country.

      I don't have any problem with immigration. I'm married to an immigrant. Immigration does have to be controlled though for the benefit of society.

    178. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep trying, Ivan, or Mohammad, or Yu, or whatever your name really is.

    179. Re:I don't get it... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      > Poverty and economic hardship are not valid reasons for asylum.

      Correct, and as far as I know, nobody has ever cited those reasons.

      Violence and persecution are, however; and that's the reason so many people are trying to escape central America.

      =Smidge=

    180. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are free to move south of the border if you hate your fellow Americans that much. We won't hold our breath however.

    181. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ellis Island received more than 250.000 immigrants in April 1907 alone. That seemed to work out ok.

    182. Re:I don't get it... by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      If they are refugees, then why are they reportedly waving proudly their country's flag as they march up, and in some cases even burning the US flag? That isn't the behavior of people seeking help from a host, that is a hostile invasion and damn rude.
      It is not indicative of asylum seekers, which, by international law, are supposed to stop at the nearest country for help, not cross over 3 or more borders to get to a target country.

      If you want to believe no one is calling for open borders, go ahead, but here's the evidence to the contrary:

      https://openborders.info/
      https://www.usatoday.com/story...
      https://www.salon.com/2017/03/...

      and those are just for starters..

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    183. Re:I don't get it... by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume I'm a liberal? Is it because I try to use common sense and not sensationalist rhetoric?

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    184. Re:I don't get it... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      > You don't seek asylum at the border, but at the consulate of your home country.

      False. To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States.

      > I don't know what this means. They're enforcing the law. That means forcing people to obey it.

      The difference is enforcing the law according to the law, and enforcing the law with brutality because you can get away with it. Despite what some people would like to believe, it's actually not okay for police officers to beat you senseless - there are actually laws that dictate how other laws are to be enforced. We've unfortunately gotten very bad at enforcing them, though.

      > You just advocated for ICE not to enforce the law

      Incorrect; There is a proper way and an improper way to enforce laws. By way of trivial (and admittedly hyperbolic) example, the proper way to enforce speed limit laws is to issue the offending driver a ticket, not to drag them out of their car and beat them within an inch of their life. Similarly, there are proper ways to detain and deport illegal immigrants, and there are improper ways.

      =Smidge=

    185. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Unlike the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence isn't a legal document.

      The Constitution is our legal code, the Declaration is our moral code

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    186. Re:I don't get it... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      >The "ripping babies from Mama's arms" narrative is more dramatic than factual. In a majority of cases, the minors were not taken from mothers, but dubious/unverified family members, who, at a minimum, endangered them by force marching them under unsafe, risky conditions and used them as unwitting participants in a crime.

      1) Seeking asylum is not a crime.

      2) The journey to the US was clearly judged to be less dangerous than staying in their home country overrun by gang violence and political unrest.

      3) When you say "more dramatic than factual" does that imply there is some number of dissociated families that would be deemed acceptable? Last I saw it was ~2800 people or so that were affected. How many forcibly orphaned and illegally detained children are acceptable to you?

      > The result is that these kids were taken and put into the equivalent of day care and/or foster care, not super-max.

      Would you take your children to a "day care center" that held kids in chain link fence enclosures with bare concrete floors? That's a dog kennel, not day care.
      =Smidge=

    187. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently that statement means anarchy to you. There are laws and they will be enforced with or without the governments help.

    188. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can't apply to the people outside unless you want the US to be nation building warmongers.

    189. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a civil, not criminal offence.

    190. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are suggesting we replace it with "If you want to deal drugs, rob, steal, rape, and murder people come right in. If you can't come in the front door, just walk on over because we don't even have a fence.".

    191. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guys who cut my lawn are all here legally, and pretty sure the guys at McDonalds/Burger King/Wendies are too. I can't recall any stories of a fast food chain store being raided by ICE.

    192. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Latin isn't Spanish. You should probably learn the difference.

    193. Re:I don't get it... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      But... all the outrage shown by these people against illegal immigration is fake. They want cheap strawberries and cheap fast food and cheap lawn mowing and cheap home construction. If they are really against illegal immigration they will prosecute the employers.

      This line is parroted by people who have no idea what employers have to do to insure an employee you hire can legally work in the U.S. It is impossible for an employer to tell if an employee can work in the country legally. Pick your jaw up off the floor and let me repeat that. The U.S. government provides no way for an employer to tell if a prospective employee can legally work in the U.S.

      When an employer hires someone, we're not allowed to ask race, nationality, country of origin, or legal status. All we're allowed to do is request the employee fill out form I-9 and present the piece(s) of ID required by the I-9. Most people give their driver's license and social security card. A few give their U.S. passport. Non-citizens give a copy of their work visa in lieu of their social security card.

      The employer photocopies these documents, and puts them along with the I-9 in a filing cabinet. That's it.

      You don't submit it to the government. There's no cross-check to verify that the IDs are valid, and not forged. Nobody reviews the info the person wrote on the I-9. If the employer suspects the documents are forged, they can refuse to hire the person. But you're taking an enormous risk since you'll be subject to discrimination lawsuits and fines if it turns out the documents were real. The form and copies of the work documents just sit in a filing cabinet. The sole purpose of the I-9 and the copies of the documentation is to prove the employer did their due diligence and asked the employee to present documents they're supposed to have before they can work. In the event that the employer is raided by INS, the I-9 and documents shield the employer from prosecution for hiring illegal immigrants. The illegally immigrants are still hired, it's just that the employer didn't know they were working illegally.

      When you hear on the news that some company was raided and INS found illegal immigrants working there, that does not automatically mean the employer intentionally hired illegal immigrants. The employer could have, under current law, hired all those people legally, and some of them were still working illegally. As long as the employer has copies of the I-9 and work documents (fake or not), they have done nothing wrong, even if the employee is in the country and working illegally. Most of the stories you hear about employers "caught" hiring illegal immigrants are simply a result of the employer losing or misfiling the I-9, and they can't provide it to INS after a raid which turned up some people working illegally. (I kept photocopies, and also scanned them to avoid a single point of failure.)

      The current system is a joke. With modern technology, it would be trivial for the government to set up a system where the info on the I-9 could be submitted to a government server, which spits out a simple yes/no verification. Or even not tell the employer, and some time later ICE drops by to investigate the person whose I-9 didn't match a known U.S. citizen. Some states have even passed laws making it illegal for employers to report to INS/ICE people who applied for a job but weren't able to fill out the I-9 and provide the requisite documents. It's not the employers who are at fault here. The government doesn't want you to know who is legal or illegal to hire.

      A lot of this leniency stems from the post-Civil War era. A lot of people in the ex-Confederacy tried to make hard for freed slaves to work or vote, by denying they were legally eligible to do these things. So the law was set up to force employers and pollsters to assume the person cou

    194. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I support what you've just said, E Pluribus Unum is no longer the national motto - not since the 1950's.

    195. Re:I don't get it... by Solandri · · Score: 2

      Then how about the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." All men, not just Americans.

      My family immigrated into the U.S. legally. Wait list, visa, green card, then finally citizenship. Treating all men equally means people who entered the country illegally should be booted out, and forced to go through the same process we did.

      You're not asking for equal rights for illegal immigrants. You're asking that illegal immigrants be given superior rights compared to legal immigrants.

      And as an aside, the SCotUS has repeatedly held that U.S. Constitutional protections apply to everyone on U.S. soil, even those who entered the country illegally (heck, they're even counted for the purpose of determining Congressional representation). That was why Bush put a prison in Guantanamo Bay - because it was Cuban soil, not U.S. soil, so he hoped to avoid giving the prisoners there Constitutional rights. So everyone in the U.S. enjoys the same rights and freedoms protected by the U.S. Constitution. The people here illegally just don't get the rights and freedoms associated with U.S. citizenship (mainly, freedom from deportation, and ability to work legally).

    196. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with
      open trade and open borders, sometime in the future with energy that is as
      green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for
      every person in the hemisphere.” Hillary Clinton. [05162013 Remarks to Banco Itau.doc, p.
      28]
      She's referring to an EU-type system for some ideal time in the future. Claiming that she is for open borders now is just dishonest.

      Your other sources are BS also. Some blogger I've never heard of, and a philosophy on a t-shirt. You either are a Russian troll, or someone who has fallen for a Russian troll.

    197. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >They are willing to work harder for less pay and no bitching.
      Jesus, listen to yourself. You're advocating for a reversal of labor rights. If someone comes here LEGALLY they get such labor rights and no longer have to work in slavery conditions for slavery pay. If they come illegally, who knows?

    198. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Then how about the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." All men, not just Americans.

      My family immigrated into the U.S. legally. Wait list, visa, green card, then finally citizenship. Treating all men equally means people who entered the country illegally should be booted out, and forced to go through the same process we did. You're not asking for equal rights for illegal immigrants. You're asking that illegal immigrants be given superior rights compared to legal immigrants.

      I'm asking for a simpler process. It can take decades for people to become citizens, and we are severely restricting temporary entry such as refugee status, so of course people are going to try and come here illegally. Make it easier for people to come here legally to work and they will come here legally. It's been shown with guns, drugs, alcohol, music/movies, anything: when it's hard to get something legally most people will simply get it illegally. Immigration is the same way.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    199. Re:I don't get it... by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      This current country was created by the Constitution, not the Articles of Confederation, nor the Declaration of Independence, nor some silly poem on a statue. Do they even teach civics at your high school anymore? They obviously don't teach how to argue without silly appeals to emotion.

      Without the DoI we would still have been part of the British Empire so yes, the DoI was the first document creating the entity that eventually because the US.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    200. Re:I don't get it... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
      Have you wondered why is that?

      Republicans own all the branches of the government. Democrats have absolutely no power to stop anything. Why haven't they made it possible to catch the criminal employers of the illegal immigrants?

      I tell why. They want it this way. They want illegal immigrants working for a pittance working the hands to the bone. All the smoke and mirrors about the border wall is to fool the people. The Republicans want illegal immigrants to come in and work for low wages, That is the truth.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    201. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint: You've got a better chance of surviving The Purge if you're a gun-totin' prepper type... not a campus hipster.

      Your country has a better chance of not having a purge if its full of campus hipsters vs prepper types

    202. Re:I don't get it... by Etcetera · · Score: 1, Troll

      Hint: You've got a better chance of surviving The Purge if you're a gun-totin' prepper type... not a campus hipster.

      Your country has a better chance of not having a purge if its full of campus hipsters vs prepper types

      Any country has a better chance of not having a purge if it's homogeneous, but I don't think that's a proper aim.

    203. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even though I agree and support the basis of what you said -- coming in illegally should be deported -- at the same time I mostly disagree with your support reasoning. You are taking the issue from only one side. Furthermore, you look at the issues that are presenting right in front of you but never look or try to look further in the history and consequence of the issue.

      If and only if the law of the country allows babies born from illegals to become a citizen, then I would completely agree with what you said. However, by the law of the country, what will you do with these kids whose parents are illegal immigrants? Please don't try to be both ways -- deport illegal immigrants (right) and have social program to take care of their babies that are Americans (left).

      If you are going to argue that all of them should be deported, and then the American kids could come back later, again, you still don't look far ahead. How about kids that are in their teen and younger than 18? Many of them don't know their parents' culture, and may even speak only English. Do you think it is right to force them to go back to their parents' home country where they have no idea what it is? Have you ever put yourself in their own shoe? Have you ever put yourself in other's shoe at all? Just because the issue doesn't occur to you, it doesn't mean what you think is right would be right.

    204. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yes, yes. The SJWs should go get the one percenters and stop harassing fellow Americans. This whole PC bullshit is a plot to get poor people to go after the middle, industrious, meritocratic class.

    205. Re: I don't get it... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      "it was only Asians who were excluded then" And, so, you dispute your own statement...

      Errr, no. I think you need to reread the "whole" sentence/paragraph of what the parent said instead of pick and choose only a portion to argue.

    206. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, God. You can't shut up until after the midterm, can't you?

      I start to suspect that you work for the IRA. Dipshit. Really. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Turd. Pox.

    207. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The amount of illegal immigrants in the US rivals the entire population of Canada. The US does not have an issue with illegal immigration from Canada- there are no migrant caravans hiking through Saskatchewan. That's not racism; it's coincidence. Canada is a wealthy and educated nation with very similar demographics to the US. You do not have millions of Canadians flowing in flooding the already dwindling manual labour market.

      People protest because they are stupefied by such an asinine statement. Building a wall on the Canadian border would benefit us Canadians more than Americans.

    208. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arrgh! My eyes!!!

      > Well ok, that's a good comment. You are right ...

      A nice thing, said reasonably, humbly and kindly ... on the internet! On Slashdot!! Is the sky falling?

    209. Re:I don't get it... by Lynal · · Score: 1

      ...what has happened so fundamentally in our country (US) where people don't care about actual citizenship, and protecting our borders?

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.

      That is the current law.

      I don't know the current law and if what type of deportation it prescribes, but a few key questions are: (1) is the law being applied correctly? (2) is the law the one that "the people" want? and (3) if "the people" don't want the current laws, how do they change them?

      I would suggest considering the parallel between these prank calls and the civil disobedience that Rosa Parks and many others performed in the Civil Rights era. We might get to different answers, but I hope we can agree on the questions.

    210. Re:I don't get it... by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      People fleeing the Republic helped bring about the downfall of Rome:
      Ancient Rome in 20 minutes

    211. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you cited 2 of not so hot in the media who against the open border, and at the same time, you cited 2 more who are so hot in the media and support open border. What is your implication here? Trying to convince that most liberal support open border? Nope, your citations have no proof or support to your claim but rather irrelevant.

    212. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This current country was created by the Constitution, not the Articles of Confederation, nor the Declaration of Independence, nor some silly poem on a statue. Do they even teach civics at your high school anymore? They obviously don't teach how to argue without silly appeals to emotion.

      Really? If the country has not been declared independence, how the F it is a country and how the F the "Constitution" could be written? Get your head out of your law school and start looking more logically. Laws are to be interpreted and understood, not to be religiously believed in word-by-word.

    213. Re:I don't get it... by eclectro · · Score: 1

      Who is advocating wide open borders?

      Puhleaze. Democratic Socialist darling Ocasio-Cortez put forth the rallying cry two months ago to abolish ICE - which essentially would be the same as if not directly opening the borders. And a bunch of other Democrats could not stumble over each other fast enough to parrot her. It was cringe inducing to say the least it was so ridiculous.

      Many Democrats have and now are advocating we welcome what has now become an army of thousands of men (really no women) marching here (in any other reality it would be called an invasion force) into the country because we can absorb them.

      I know many people do not bother with mainstream media sources anymore. But you really do need to pull your head out of the sand on this one.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    214. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fear, fear, fear

      it's always the same with you folks

      your masters drive you with fear.

      You're projecting. Don't confuse fear with anger and diligence. While you may not care for yourself, your family, and your country, many of us do.

      This hoard of invaders has no more right to come here than we have a right to invade their country and settle in their communities. Fuck that, and fuck them! They need to turn around and go back to the shit hole they came from.

    215. Re:I don't get it... by eclectro · · Score: 2

      Just a thought, maybe the reason that Republicans control every branch of government is because they are listening to what their constituents are telling them.

      Many of which have long wanted effective border enforcement. Which would entail making ICE stronger not abolishing it.

      You're forced to parrot that ridiculous idea because it would be a no-story to say that you agree with the president that the border needs enforcing. After all, Obama was separating illegal immigrant kids from their so-called parents - after they were marched through a deadly desert - far longer before Trump decided to run and make immigration an issue after it had been ignored by all for decades.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    216. Re:I don't get it... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      The problem is the appearance... Those who were born by the same race parents will keep their race appearance, e.g. Asians. As a result, even they were born in America, raised in America, and have lived all their lives in America, they can still be looked at as immigrants. Even though the melting pot is supposed to be about the culture, there are too many white/black Americans who think that America is only for white and some black. I guess the meaning of the word should be taught early in school in hope that everyone would understand what it is.

    217. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're talking about LEGAL immigrants, while this whole thing is about ILLEGAL immigrants. This intellectual dishonesty comes up every single time, to paint the issue as one of racism rather than enforcing laws.

    218. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What should the statute of limitations be for entering illegally?

      Working illegally?

      Residing illegally?

      Grand theft auto?

    219. Re:I don't get it... by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      The issue with ICE and TSA are that they were poorly enacted responses to legitimate concerns.

      ICE should probably be part of Customs and Border Patrol. If CBP were able to do their job well, we'd know exactly who overstayed visitor visas.

      In parallel to that change, we should be more willing to cooperate with our neighbors and as a country have an easier process to legal immigration. My wife is an immigrant, I know the process. Most people who come here simply want to work hard and have a better life than where they came from. Our "leader" pushes the agenda that immigrants are criminal and it's created a culture of fear.

      That immigrant march.. 1st of all they are in southern Mexico. 2nd of all, they have committed no crimes. Why vilify them? We have processes in place to deal with these situations. Let's let those processes run their course. Hell, I know in my region, they cannot find enough citizens to work in the manufacturing facilities for $15/hr, I bet these immigrants would love that sort of opportunity.

      I am well informed on what goes on not only in the US but also globally.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    220. Re:I don't get it... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      You are talking of an old verification system which is already out-dated. What employers now need to do is to include E-Verify process at the same the employer is filing the form I-9. The system has been in place for many years already.

    221. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The war on drugs exists/d/ *because* of open borders. If you can smuggle people in and out, you can smuggle contraband, simple as that. If there is profit motive, and opportunity, it will happen. We wouldn't have violent drug kingpins and gangs, if the flow of illegal drugs went away.

      Now, I agree that we have messed around in South America, and for a long time at that. It probably adversely affected people. We should stop with all of that. Just the same, we have no way of knowing if the various communist regimes would have played out better or worse than what they've got today. If other communist experiments are indicative, they should be glad it turned out this way.

      However, That doesn't mean we need to, or are in any way morally bound to accept every Juan (that's a pun, not a ethnoracial epithet) who decides to skip the border without papers. It's not fair to our citizens here, and in fact, it's totally unfair to the people who are trying to emigrate legally.

    222. Re:I don't get it... by eclectro · · Score: 1

      Let me give you a liberal perspective on this: you are raising a straw man.

      Let me give you an independent swing voter perspective. Obama had eight years of inaction concerning immigration following decades of administrations kicking the can down the road, literally.

      In that light, Trump runs a campaign on fixing immigration, gets elected - and now Democrats are somehow mad at Trump because he actually wants to fix immigration and enforce the borders??

      There comes a point where people look silly. This is one of those times that Democrats really look stupid silly with what essentially amounts to an army of thousands of men marching to the border waving their flags of their countries they are coming from. Then they will demand that they have a right to enter and force their way in - when by any measure of jurisprudence they do not have that legal right.

      You know what in a normal world that would be called?? An invasion.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    223. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I don't see why we can't do a French Foreign Legion thing, let them enlist or sign up for a Depression style civil service and fix the infrastructure, get citizenship.

      So what you are saying is... service guarantees citizenship?

    224. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Republicans, who control every branch of government, have had two years to introduce humane reforms.

      To be fair, during the Obama presidency the Democrats did too with a supermajority in the Senate.

      It is almost as if neither of the two major US political parties actually cares about solving the issue.

    225. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BOOM! HEADSHOT!

      Winner winner chicken dinner!

    226. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If success isn't a zero-sum game, why are you virtue signalling your PC birthright on Slashdot when you could be giving Zuckerberg, Musk, and Bezos swirlies in the toilet of the market?

    227. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So because the government did bad crap, the public should pay for it by letting unchecked immigration in where they are put at risk? The solution is to curtail the government's meddling and vote out the people who did it. The solution is NOT to allow people to just stream in unchecked because reasons. Pretty much every other country in the world has done similar things to the US government, and nobody is expecting them to allow every other country to dump their citizens there.

    228. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to know more...

    229. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      As a result, even they were born in America, raised in America, and have lived all their lives in America, they can still be looked at as immigrants

      And that applies if they are this poster's grandkids or if they're a 7th generation American.

      The point is the attitude and behaviors of those grandkids will be just like that 7th generation American.

    230. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you understand completely about native americans. They don't like to be reminded that they weren't first either (there were generations of other tribes here long before they were, that the newer tribes destroyed). I know this because my family is native american. I don't claim to be myself because I didn't get involved in any of the cultural aspects of it and for all intents and purposes I am pretty caucasian. Still, even my family who do take part in these things realize that everything wasn't smoking peace pipes, dancing in the woods and hunting deer. They conquered each other. They destroyed each other. They would kill everyone in a tribe except a few women they kept to sleep with. They would poison watering holes to prevent other tribes from using them.

      The US government has a dark past when it comes to many ways they were treated, but to count centuries old actions from mostly unformed countries to modern times is stupid. Most native americans don't even have a great, great, grandparent who was persecuted by the US, but they still get tons of free money. Some in my family take it. Do you believe that should carry to eternity? Getting money for what you were born as? Do you believe it's fair to punish people for things they great great great grandparents MAY have done? (How many came to this country after everything had already been done and thus had no part in it?)

    231. Re:I don't get it... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The amount of illegal immigrants in the US rivals the entire population of Canada

      As long as you define "rivals" as "1/3rd". There's about 36M people in Canada. There's about 12M undocumented immigrants in the US. And that 12M includes people who are working through the immigration process (DACA, asylum, etc).

      The US does not have an issue with illegal immigration from Canada

      sO yOu WaNt OpEn BoRdErS!!!!

      Also, we just deported a former US solider to Canada. Damn Canadians and their rampant drug abuse!!!

      You do not have millions of Canadians flowing in flooding the already dwindling manual labour market.

      If this concern was actually a problem, farmers would not be scrambling to find farm workers. They are.

      It turns out, US Persons don't want to do farm labor for terrible pay.

      People protest because they are stupefied by such an asinine statement. Building a wall on the Canadian border would benefit us Canadians more than Americans.

      Whatever you do, make sure you stay locked on that obviously sarcastic part of the post, and skip over the parts where the Trumpkin are not upset at all about European or Asian undocumented immigrants.

    232. Re:I don't get it... by Jahoda · · Score: 1

      LOL... do...do you not understand that those "legal points of entry" were basically your imaginary "open borders" for everyone except the Chinese? BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. What do you expect from a guy standing up to the oooooooo big scary antifa boogeyman that is totally a real thing.

    233. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are here in this country illegally, you have criminally trespassed. You should be deported.
      That is the current law.

      No, it isn't. Coming illegally is not a crime. Staying illegally is not a crime. These are low-level civil infractions, far less serious than a traffic violation or copyright infringement.
      If you don't like that, "then start to put pressure on your congress-critters and have them change the laws."

      For a long time now, my position has been that in order to get to express an opinion on what immigration laws ought to say, you should know something about what they already do say. That way you can avoid re-inventing the wheel--which your post does in spades.

    234. Re:I don't get it... by hey! · · Score: 1

      Obama deported three million people [source], and although changes in statistics gathering make it hard to compare precisely with prior presidents, that's a lot of people. He also proposed a bipartisan solution for Dreamers, which was torpedoed at the last minute by the Tea Party caucus. That's hardly Obama kicking the can down the road.

      Obama's deportation policy focused on troublemakers and people who commit crimes -- the very people Trump campaigned for throwing out. When Trump came in he took more of a bottom-feeder approach, going for the vulnerable, low hanging fruit and making examples of them (asylum-seekers, parents with children). As a result deportations are down, because immigrant communities distrust law enforcement and minority communities don't want to cooperate with immigration.

      As a result, deportations are down under Trump. So, yes. There comes a point where people look silly, unless instead they look depraved. And speaking of silly, are you still waiting for Mexico to pay for the wall? Isn't that silly?

      Oh, and your caravan "army" is fake news. There are a group of mainly Honduran (about half of them women and children) making their way north, and most of the viral images being shared are of different groups of people altogether and from the past. Caravan members haven't been beating up Mexican police or burning American flags. And in point of fact if they do reach the United States they do, under treaties we wrote after WW2, have a right to have their cases heard. If their cases have merit, we don't necessarily have to grant them residency, but we do have to find something humane to do with them. Why? Because we gave our word to do that.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    235. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not me because my parents immigrated legally. All the illegal immigrants or whatever PC nonsense they relabel them are garbage that are keeping out more upstanding immigrants.

      And yes I'm brown as fuck from a poor family in India.

      Don't get me wrong I actually love Mexicans, I just hate their law breakers and the people that want to make my problem theirs.

      Guess how long it took for my uncle to legally immigrate after we applied?
      16 years.

      All these illegal law breaker fuckers are sure making it hard to do things honestly.
      Guess weather or not they'll follow laws when they are here?

      You ever hear or a Indian gang? What about a Mexican gang?

    236. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      95% of terrorists in the USA are homegrown white right wingers. Why are you so deathly afraid of a brown person who is statistically less likely to commit any act of terrorism than a native white male?

    237. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, the old "HERE IS YOUR IDEOLOGY" argument.

      I guess all conservatives are skinheads and Westboro thumpers, right?

    238. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as it only looks like 1968 and not 1860 I'm okay with that. Cry all you want about things. Doing something about it would be much more concerning, but crying is easy to ignore.

    239. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC came here to say this.

    240. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately for liberals - whatever its cause, that caravan is a real crisis.

      Best summed up by David Frum: "If you define 'enforcing the border' as fascism, then the American public will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do."

      I know, you don't adhere to that definition and wouldn't try to defend it, but that's not the point. The point is that as long as there is anyone on the left whose position can be caricatured as that, then that is the position that Trump will run against. You need to not only phrase your own position very carefully to make it clear you're in favor of enforcing current law, but also very quickly disown anyone who hesitates to do the same.

    241. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, which means the Rethuglicans are pretty well fucked at this point. Soros isn't running for anything, they can demonize him all they want, it won't make the slightest bit of a difference.

      At this point, Drumpf has lied so much and so obviously that it's finally come through, intelligent people have realized that virtually everything out of a Rethuglican's mouth is a lie. And they're voting against the lies.

      (I just got home from voting a straight Democratic ticket, in an election where it may really matter. Bredesen is likely to be the next Senator from Tennessee.)

    242. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure the natives are super pissed they were nice to the Europeans. I don't want to be the new slaughtered natives because I was naive enough to think letting anyone into the country was a good idea.

    243. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are we so beholden to let anyone come here? What if we decide to let anyone with a degree to come here on a work visa? No quota in place, just anyone with a degree can get a work visa and come here. Are we not short nurses and programmers? Surely if we just let EVERYONE with those two studies in, we could fill those gaps. Heck, I bet we could drive wages down in those two fields drastically.

      That might just be the ticket to affordable healthcare.

      Sounds good, right?

    244. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why stop at just the uneducated? We need more programmers, doctors and nurses. I bet if we let every doctor, nurse and programmer that wanted into the country in, we could really drive down healthcare cost and also how much we have to pay for those silly programmers.

      I think it sounds great. No boarders. Just let anyone in. You are racist if you don't agree. There can be no other reason you wouldn't agree.

    245. Re:I don't get it... by JThundley · · Score: 1

      You know, I've thought a bit about the argument "we can't bring everyone here, those people need to fix things at HOME and stay there....."

      Why can't we? Let's say your worst fear is realized and we allow mass immigration from these countries. These people would be here and not there, participating in our economy and not the economy of a corrupt and/or incompetent leader. Isn't that a good thing? Maybe America could buy the land or make them a territory ala Puerto Rico down the road.

      Why is your solution to this problem the only valid one?

    246. Re:I don't get it... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Rome hadn't been a Republic for centuries by the time it fell.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    247. Re:I don't get it... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      btw, just to be clear, even if my previous comment turns out to be correct, I don't think the solution is to stop immigration.......rather some sort of education requirement like "learn basic civics" should be enough.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    248. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before 1965, did we have to pay the medical bills of all illegal immigrants? No.

    249. Re:I don't get it... by stinerman · · Score: 1

      It was never meant to be that executive departments and the courts would have so much power. Congress was designed to be pretty powerful, but for the reasons I mentioned they are not powerful at all.

      The idea that Congress would cover for a criminal and corrupt President was unthinkable. There's a reason the question of whether or not the President could pardon himself never came up. It would be unthinkable. Congress would have him out on his ass before the ink dried on the pardon.

    250. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear, you may not have noticed that you were called out on your lie. Your ancestors did not ask anyone's permission: there was no-one to ask. There's nothing wrong with that, you just don't get to use it to justify your bigotry today.

    251. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

      Even if the declaration was legally binding (it's not), none of that means we have to go out of our way in the slightest to provide these things to others, at our cost.

    252. Re: I don't get it... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      The whole of the quote I read:

      "No one before 1875 needed "permission to immigrate" you only needed a boat ticket, and it was only Asians who were excluded then, Europeans just needed that boat ticket until 1891"

      I noted that it was 'only the Asians' who we 'excluded' then.

      I do think I got it. Before 1891 Asians suffered discrimination where other immigrants mostly did not. Most European immigrants weren't really noticed. Later the Irish got quite a bit of discrimination, though that coincided with the Depression, a complication.

      And despite the discrimination Asians came and came, and while they had enclaves much as others did, they thrived.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    253. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankyou for saying it. As an Aussie watching itâ(TM)s truly bizarre that people on the left want people who break the law by illegally crossing a border to be allowed to stay in your country. Thatâ(TM)s exactly the type of person you donâ(TM)t want. I canâ(TM)t comprehend why they would want me to cross illegally and then be allowed. Or is it that Iâ(TM)m white that I should be locked up?

    254. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Also, this caravan - if it comes to a border point - this is legal asylum seeking
      No it's not, asshat.
      To be considered refugees they need to stop at the first port of call (Mexico)

    255. Re:I don't get it... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      and not having endless conspiracy theories over a little shooting in Dallas.

      A little shooting? Yeah, whatever.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    256. Re:I don't get it... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      If this concern was actually a problem, farmers would not be scrambling to find farm workers. They are.

      It turns out, US Persons don't want to do farm labor for terrible pay.

      So whats the point of having a minimum wage law? The illegals will do it for half of that! Lets abolish minimum wage!

    257. Re:I don't get it... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Maybe we should ship some of the poor out of work americans to your region and let them do the work. Why not help our own poor and feeble before we help the rest of the world. Or the people from here aren't important enough to be helped?

    258. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense, latin america's tendency towards weak and unstable governments pre-dates US involvement. The models adopted by the former Spanish, Portuguese and French empire's colonies are very different than those adopted by the former British Empire. England's disparate colonies and offshoots all generally fair very well, even the ones not dominated by Anglo-Saxon colonists. That isn't by accident, it is due to the superior form of government proliferated by the Britain. The British empire still thrives, it just acts as a loose network of affiliated anglo-centric countries.

    259. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree with your view of how to handle immigration and dislike how you paint with a broad brush those who disagree with you. However, I agree that the people who do this sort of thing are trolls sabotaging government.

      Almost no one wants open borders. What people say is that you should be more lenient with these people. And the type of approach depends if whether you speak with John or Steve. I am not saying I agree with this view, just saying it is way more nuanced than what you typed into the box.

    260. Re:I don't get it... by InvalidsYnc · · Score: 1

      Are you a fucking idiot? Who says I am afraid of "a brown person". I have enough brains in my head to know that an uncontrolled border, or a poorly controlled border, or a border that gets overrun will likely have people coming through that mean harm to the country. And that is ignoring the fact that it is FUCKING ILLEGAL what they are doing. And not to mention the fact that allowing anyone to stay that comes across illegally is just throwing it in the face of every single person that did it the RIGHT WAY.

      Oh, and the whole "home grown right wingers", that is a farce as well. Just look at the news, you can see who the unhinged assholes are, thinking that they can harass people in the most absurd ways anywhere they want because they don't have the same political view. Let me spell it out for you. F U C K I N G D E M O C R A T S! Oh, wait, you won't see that, because you watch CNN that has a vested interest in not showing the stupidity of your party.

      There, now fuck off back to wherever the fuck you come from. Jackass.

    261. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhhh. You're ruining his rant with facts.

    262. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. You don't even know what the word "criminal" means. You really think it's anyone who violates a law.

      If this is the level of stupidity for a significant fraction of America's voters, then I think I just figured out what went wrong with our country. Ignorance has become a celebrated virtue, an ideal to strive for.

      By any chance, do you also happen to practice a religion? I predict that you have supernatural beliefs.

    263. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truthfully, the entire problem in Venezuela is created explicitly by the US. Just like Chile in the 70's, the US is funding opposition forces that cause most of the chaos. Several coups have been attempted that we know about, who knows how many have actually happened. Anyplace where socialism leads to success must be disrupted by the US, or else the narrative it espouses is proven to be a lie. And just like Chile, Venezuela will not recover until the US stops interfering and they get to embrace socialism without interference again. Chile recovered from the disaster of Pinochet in record time with socialist policies. Most intelligent people think Venezuela will as well.

    264. Re:I don't get it... by willaien · · Score: 1

      Does this administration limit such tactics to repeat offenders?

    265. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the topic of intellectual dishonesty and painting an issue as one of racism rather than enforcing laws, I think that it would be very helpful if everyone who does so would stop referring to _people_ _themselves_ as being legal or illegal. People cannot be either one, and that false framework only serves to further intellectual dishonesty.

    266. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > BUT, it also should allow for control of who all gets to come in.

      Why, you fucking control freak, would I want to live in a world, where you, get to decide who comes/goes?

      You have your house. That, is about as much control, as I ever want you to have.

      Afraid of the world at large? Shut yourself in.

    267. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but reality does not agree with your fantasy. Considering Bernie Sanders would have won in the biggest landslide the world has ever seen had he been run against Trump, it's safe to say the vast majority of US citizens lean progressive. Are you aware the Socialist Party has added millions of members since 2016?

    268. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny that you think the one state that carries all the red states with its economy would kill itself. In reality, the red states would end up invading and enslaving each other without California to keep them all fed and sheltered.

    269. Re:I don't get it... by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Given this isn't a problem that popped up overnight, why hasn't either party done anything about it?

      If anything, the Democrats should be more against illegal immigration than the Republicans. A huge pool of poor people raises the costs of socialist policies and makes them less politically viable. Universal healthcare and free college sounds great until millions of Central and South Americans swarm in to take advantage of it and you have to raise taxes to pay for them.

    270. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The constitution?

    271. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a thought, maybe the reason that Republicans control every branch of government is because they are listening to what their constituents are telling them.

      That's an interesting thought, but also wrong. Republicans control every branch of government through a combination of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and manipulation of the electoral college. Trump, for example, received neither a majority or a plurality of the vote, yet somehow made it into office anyway, and is still in the office despite having the lowest approval ratings of any president who has been in office while any of us have been alive. And if you think he's listening to anybody, you're delusional.

      Many of which have long wanted effective border enforcement.

      Yes, those people are still racist, short-sighted shitheads.

      After all, Obama was separating illegal immigrant kids from their so-called parents - after they were marched through a deadly desert - far longer before Trump decided to run and make immigration an issue after it had been ignored by all for decades.

      Which was still wrong, and just saying "but you didn't object to it then" is an unprovable non-argument against a strawman that is just trying to deflect from the issue.

    272. Re:I don't get it... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      First off - illegal immigrants don't have access to existing "socialist" programs. What makes you think they'd have access to new ones?

      Because both parties are far more interested in kowtowing to their wealthy masters than promoting their supposed ideologies? It's really convenient to have issues to fight passionately over, without hope of making serious headway. Keeps the proles distracted while both parties work together to carry out their masters' wishes.

      Besides - the Republicans would never allow it. Get rid of illegal immigrants and they'd lose one of their biggest campaign rallying drums. Seriously - take a good hard look at the Republican proposed "solutions". Like this one, or a 2000 mile wall easily defeated by a $10 ladder or rope. They're doomed to failure by design - but what they do accomplish is riling up the proles and/or making it easier to legally harass non-whites.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    273. Re:I don't get it... by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      First off - illegal immigrants don't have access to existing "socialist" programs. What makes you think they'd have access to new ones?

      But they do have access to some medical benefits. Their kids go to publicly funded schools and they receive refundable child tax credits. Then there's the benefits they're not supposed to receive, but do anyways, since the burden of disproving their immigration status lies with the agency that's handing out welfare, and they're not qualified to do so.

    274. Re: I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's nuke Cancun

    275. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happened is a distaste for regulation. Any protection for people is blasted as "job-killing". Immigration regulations do stand in the way of jobs though.

      Why make lawyers rich and job-creators poor? Validate the passport is not counterfeit and get out of people's way. Trickle down anyone?

    276. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1927 brought us a job-killing regulation and it has to go. Making this country better is never easy and we should not be easy on people who make xenophobia hotlines.

      By the way, dissent is part of pressuring the people in charge. You think someone calling sightings about Jar Jar aren't also demanding their representatives hold a town hall?

  5. "prank" calls? by 110010001000 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What a quaint term. More like "wasting taxpayers money because you think the US should have open borders".

    1. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes because opposing the immoral separation and imprisonment of children is the same as wanting "open borders".

    2. Re: "prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, establishing the hotline in the first place was the actual waste of money. Fascist.

    3. Re:"prank" calls? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's a well established form of protest. Most protest is some kind of denial of service attack, be it temporarily blocking a road as you march down it or peacefully sitting in an area. Other examples include paying fines in pennies and deliberately spoiling ballot papers.

      The correct term is "protest calls".

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:"prank" calls? by willaien · · Score: 1

      More like wasting the resources of a poorly thought out institution that serves no real purpose other than to validate bigotry.

    5. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How cute, you think that the level of taxation is coupled to spending. Hint: It's not.

      It's coupled to the maximum extraction rate possible paying close attention to the laffer curve. If the USA ended all spending tonight taxes wouldn't go down, it will take the next 100 generations to pay off the debt.

    6. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freedom of speech, asshole.

      Aren't you always the ones claiming that freedom of speech is absolute, that words cannot harm anyone, that everyone should be allowed to say anything to anyone, that right-wingers should be allowed to spew their hatefull racist sexist misoginistic filth all they want, that Breitbart and Fox News should be allowed to lie all they want ? That people should be allowed to yell Fire ! in a theater ?

      Or, like a typical hypocritical right-winger, are you saying that freedom of speech only applies to conservatives ? That, like 43% of republicans, you think that the POTUS should have the right to arbitrarily close any news outlet, for any reason (as long as it is a liberal news outlet, of course) ?

    7. Re:"prank" calls? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They aren't "prank" calls.

    8. Re:"prank" calls? by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure where I said they shouldn't be allowed to do it, snowflake. Sorry to trigger you though. Pretty amusing you think I am "right wing" though.

    9. Re:"prank" calls? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Thats great that you think that the ICE is a "waste". Lets just open the borders wide open and see how long you survive.

    10. Re:"prank" calls? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Where did I mention the level of taxation? I just said "taxpayer".

    11. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it barks like a dog...

    12. Re:"prank" calls? by willaien · · Score: 1

      Not ICE. While its current marching orders I strongly disagree with, I don't think ICE should be disbanded. I think this call center was a waste.

    13. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The would be abuse of goverment resources. This is a criminal operation that should be treated as such.

    14. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people being protested always think like you. Never once do you stop and say "maybe I should stop being a shithead and maybe they wouldn't protest me." And the Abuse was creating the damned phoneline in the first fucking place, but you like that idea so didn't bitch about it either.

      You can FOAD.

    15. Re:"prank" calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people being protested always think like you. Never once do you stop and say "maybe I should stop being a shithead and maybe they wouldn't protest me."

      So only shitheads get protested? That does seem to be your implication.

  6. illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Simple math. Some people just donâ(TM)t get it

  7. Easy Solution by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's a serious felony to prank-call LEAs. Prosecute the prank-callers and put them in prison. As soon as the first wave of prosecutions occur, the prank-calling will all but disappear.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    1. Re:Easy Solution by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      That's what Chinese-based VoIP providers are for... thank G-d for our broken system of Caller ID... :D

    2. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what is a LEA, are these hotlines "LEAs", and what is the exact felony?

      Thanks in advance.

      AC

    3. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Law Enforcement Agency.
      Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a law enforcement agency.

      As for the felony, I know there is one for misusing 911, but I am not sure if Strat is referring to that or something else.

    4. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ICE are not police. They dress up like police (or even worse military), but they are neither. They should not be allowed to falsely identify themselves as police, and a Legislative Fix is in the works H.R. 2073, it will probably have to wait for after midterms.

    5. Re: Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, fascist

    6. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical right-wing hypocrisy.

      If it were right-wingers making calls to disrupt a liberal governement institution and someone proposed what you are proposing to solve the problem, you would be screaming "Free speech ! The evil libruls are trying one again to restric free speech and suppress conservative viewpoint !"

      Gosh you people are pathetic.

    7. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it were right-wingers making calls to disrupt a liberal governement institution and someone proposed what you are proposing to solve the problem, you would be screaming "Free speech ! The evil libruls are trying one again to restric free speech and suppress conservative viewpoint !"

      So you'd be OK with right-wingers preventing the Labor Dept. from being able to receive complaints regarding racial/gender discrimination in the workplace by clogging their phone lines with garbage calls?

      Good to know.

      Oh, you only want an exception for *your* political group?

      Yeah, fuck off you goose-stepping POS.

    8. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For Christ's sake, are you thick ? I'm saying exactly THE CONTRARY !

      I'm saying that right-wingers are hypocrits because they are condemning now what they would do themselves if it was in their interest ! Didn't you understand that ? Did I now explain it in terms simple enough for you to understand ? Do I need to dumb it down even more ?

      Gosh, you're not only hypocrits, you're freaking morons.

    9. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are several apps out there that can robodial phone numbers and play a pre-recorded message. Hell I've written one myself. And I'd be willing to be that since it's open source, some of the users have used it specifically to spam the hotline. It is their patriotic duty to do so. Are you going to put every computer on the planet in prison?

    10. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what they would do themselves

      Wow, a psychic on Slashdot!

      Do you use Tarot cards, a crystal ball, or do you read goat entrails?

      Stop drinking the Rage-Ade, it's warping your mind and sense of reality.

      Find a 12-step program somewhere before you hurt yourself or others.

    11. Re:Easy Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      some of the users have used it specifically to spam the hotline. It is a violation of several Federal laws and Acts to do so.

      FTFY

      Tell them not to drop the soap.

  8. So? by wbr1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "And nothing of value was lost"

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  9. Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We all knew this was happening!

    Glorious leader talked about this during his supreme march to glory and power. The vile and wretched non-American masses are crawling forth across the borders emitting a disgusting pestilent ooze all while committing heinous and grievous crimes of untold proportion across this great nation and must be stopped at once!

    1. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey coward, why do you have locks on your home? I deserve to be in there as much as you. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and Elizabeth Warren said so. You raciss

    2. Re: Immigrant criminals! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My home extends to my walls -- a country is just a plot of land cursed with a (generally bad) government. I don't see a country as my home, just a political unit that I happen to be unfortunate enough to live under.

    3. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. I deserve yours cause mine is not good. You are a racist.

    4. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your home ownership is just a construct of your government and capitalist economy. Therefore it doesnâ(TM)t exist

    5. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until a tent city pops up in your neighbourhood and your wife/girlfriend/daughter starts getting harassed by the newcomers. Then you'll go full Buchanan.

    6. Re: Immigrant criminals! by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      I don't see a country as my home, just a political unit that I happen to be unfortunate enough to live under.

      So you wouldn't mind if people destroyed the roads, for example ?

    7. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, muh roads!

      Because private companies can design and build actual spaceships, but it's literally impossible to lay a thin strip of asphalt on the ground without government!

    8. Re: Immigrant criminals! by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      "Countries are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick." - Enter Shikari

      --
      I tend to rant.
    9. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right. With no government, The illegals will organize and start paving roads and building infrastructure. Just like they back home in The the rain forest. Or maybe they will just form a corporation and build a spaceship instead

    10. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh shut the fuck up.

    11. Re: Immigrant criminals! by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

      Because private companies can design and build actual spaceships, but it's literally impossible to lay a thin strip of asphalt on the ground without government!

      Hmmm, you must be a big fan of toll roads then..

    12. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll give you open borders if you give me zero gun control. Deal?

    13. Re: Immigrant criminals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think you're not paying for a road just because there's no toll? I know it's hard for your feeble mind to grasp (since apparently government solutions = always good, and private solutions = always bad), but there ARE alternative means of funding things without requiring coercion.

    14. Re: Immigrant criminals! by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      My home extends to my walls -- a country is just a plot of land cursed with a (generally bad) government. I don't see a country as my home, just a political unit that I happen to be unfortunate enough to live under.

      Your thinking is muddled. Am I allow to camp out on your front lawn then? If not, how about the sidewalk in front of your house? Lastly - if it's so bad why don't you leave? Go to where the grass is always greener.

    15. Re: Immigrant criminals! by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      A country is more than a plot of land. You obviously haven't travelled much if you think that.

    16. Re: Immigrant criminals! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      No. At the end of the day, it's just a plot of land (can be nice land) lorded over by a government. Proud cynic here.

  10. Re:illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should ask the ORIGINAL inhabitants of the US about that.

  11. GOOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me.

    1. Re: GOOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Send me your criminals, your defective, those with nothing to offer their former homeland. Send me Your huddled masses ferried by communist regimes looking to destabilize another country. Enable them to replicate their squalor by demanding services and handouts all without learning a common language or giving more than they receive

  12. Re: Aboriginals Want Their Land Back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You better leave. You're tresspassing on their stolen lands.

  13. More ways to resist: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  14. Re: illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would, but the invasion replaced them with the current inhabitants so most are extinct. See, invasion works. Americans should be concerned, right?

  15. I agree 80% with you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are two factors to take into account
    1) the USA has put obstacle to Asylum and in fact reject people in danger of being killed at home. So part of the illegal are actually real people asking for Asylum. Now one can argue about whether Asylum should be granted, but keep in mind that for a country pretending to protect freedom of speech and yada yada while at the same time the USA being the originator of some of the violence and destabilization of some south American countries make it a bitter pill to swallow.
    2) furthermore the USA has a very slow process to accept immigrant, AND it tends to want to reject those who want a better place than at home, it favors those who are better educated etc... Which is exactly the people which mostly do not want to immigrate.

    Combine both and it seems that the US is actually generating problem in south Am (past 50 years of domino theory) then wash their hands off it "my pie now go elsewhere".

    But in the end I mostly agree with you.

  16. Some immigrants are more brazen than others by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    I understand members of the American public are justifiably outraged by the presence in the United States of some particularly heinous scofflaws. Apparently these evil people have managed to anger tens of thousands of upstanding American citizens, who have reported them to ICE repeatedly.

    Chinga-Sue Madray, ICE is coming for you! Afooku Sosumi, there will be nowhere for you to hide! Sookma Har-Dwon, soon you will regret slipping into America!

    You have been warned. Govern yourselves accordingly!

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  17. Re:illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasi by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

    Well, that would be Asians that crossed the bearing straight. You know, came from a different continent and was not originally from here. Oh wait, that destroys your whole argument.

    --
    Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  18. Isn't this also illegal by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

    Isn't this also illegal? It seems like this would be equivalent to prank calling 911 which I'm pretty sure is already illegal in many areas. Calling in and harassing law enforcement or giving fake tips to a crime seems like something that a person should be able to be prosecuted for. I'm all for peaceful protesting and call your congressman by the thousands and complain all you want but law breakers should be prosecuted not cheered. I saw a similar article today about a bunch of graffiti all over Yale and the liberals all cheering them all. We shouldn't be cheering on people who do illegal things whether it is crossing the border, interfering with law enforcement, or vandalism. There are plenty of peaceful non destructive ways to protest that are still very effective. Law breaking protesters should be prosecuted just like anyone else.

    1. Re:Isn't this also illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, saving Jews during the Third Reich was also illegal. The morally correct action is not always the legal action.

  19. Too much talking by petes_PoV · · Score: 2

    they would need an additional 400 operators

    I have done consultancy work on some major call centres. If it takes an agent more than 3 minutes on average to process a call, including wrap-up time after the caller has gone, then there is something wrong with the IT.

    At that rate an agent working an 8 hour shift would be expected to handle about 160 calls. To require 400 agents to field 16,000 calls means they are taking 40 calls per person in a shift. Maybe down to 20 if the call centre is running 2 shifts. There will be peak times when some calls will be lost, but using those numbers as a guide means that the agents are taking far too long handling each call.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  20. Probably funded by G. Soros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't he want to destroy ICE so he can complete his goal of epic homelessness for the working class?

    I'm not kidding. I wish it was just conspiracy theory..

    1. Re:Probably funded by G. Soros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story bro. Are you the [[[patriot]]] who tried to blow up Soros' home?

  21. A poem by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Home, by Warsan Shire (British-Somali poet)

    no one leaves home unless
    home is the mouth of a shark.

    you only run for the border
    when you see the whole city
    running as well.

    your neighbours running faster
    than you, the boy you went to school with
    who kissed you dizzy behind
    the old tin factory is
    holding a gun bigger than his body,
    you only leave home
    when home won't let you stay.

    no one would leave home unless home
    chased you, fire under feet,
    hot blood in your belly.

    it's not something you ever thought about
    doing, and so when you did -
    you carried the anthem under your breath,
    waiting until the airport toilet
    to tear up the passport and swallow,
    each mouthful of paper making it clear that
    you would not be going back.

    you have to understand,
    no one puts their children in a boat
    unless the water is safer than the land.

    who would choose to spend days
    and nights in the stomach of a truck
    unless the miles travelled
    meant something more than journey.

    no one would choose to crawl under fences,
    be beaten until your shadow leaves you,
    raped, then drowned, forced to the bottom of
    the boat because you are darker, be sold,
    starved, shot at the border like a sick animal,
    be pitied, lose your name, lose your family,
    make a refugee camp a home for a year or two or ten,
    stripped and searched, find prison everywhere
    and if you survive and you are greeted on the other side
    with go home blacks, refugees
    dirty immigrants, asylum seekers
    sucking our country dry of milk,
    dark, with their hands out
    smell strange, savage -
    look what they've done to their own countries,
    what will they do to ours?

    the dirty looks in the street
    softer than a limb torn off,
    the indignity of everyday life
    more tender than fourteen men who
    look like your father, between
    your legs, insults easier to swallow
    than rubble, than your child's body
    in pieces - for now, forget about pride
    your survival is more important.

    i want to go home, but home is the mouth of a shark
    home is the barrel of the gun
    and no one would leave home
    unless home chased you to the shore
    unless home tells you to
    leave what you could not behind,
    even if it was human.

    no one leaves home until home
    is a damp voice in your ear saying
    leave, run now, i don't know what
    i've become.

    but i know that anywhere is safer than here. (Painting: Holy Family Icon by Kelly Latimore)

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:A poem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for posting this.

    2. Re:A poem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thank you for sharing this, new to me but an instant favorite. Glad to see /. isn't completely overrun, just mostly.

  22. Borders are fine by rsilvergun · · Score: 0

    and were fine before ICE. ICE is a new thing. It's unpopular because it brings together two groups on the left and right to hate on it.

    On the one hand you've got lefties who are fine with the immigrants, especially the ones that ICE cracks down on. As a lefty /.er I'm not that worried about they guy who slings my hash or picks fruit being an illegal, I'm more concerned about the H1-Bs here legally who take jobs I should have had.

    On the right wing you've got the libertarians worried about government expansion. It's an entirely new federal police force with massive resources. If you're paying attention to things like ICE and the border wall and you're a libertarian you're asking yourself when they'll be used against you. That wall can be used to keep people in, just like in East Germany. Same thing with ICE. They can be used against you, and they make you nervous. Like the TSA and anything else that points to authoritarianism.

    That's the main reason ICE is under attack. There's folks on both sides with a reason to want it shut down.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Borders are fine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      and were fine before ICE. ICE is a new thing. I

      New?

      We've had departments of immigration officers that rounded up and deported illegals for a LONG time.

      Hell, for a good public example of it, look in Cheech and Chong's first movie Up in Smoke where they get caught up in a raid by the "migra" and sent across the border into Mexico.

      This isn't anything new.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Borders are fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're trying to explain history to a generation of narcissists who believe the world began the day they were born.

    3. Re:Borders are fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you don't care about illegal immigration because, being lower class than you, they do not compete with you for jobs. You do not even try to hide your selfishness by stating in your very next sentence that you are concerned about immigrants that do compete in your job market.

      In other words your attitude is, quite literally: fuck you- I got mine.

      It is somewhat widely believed that the current "pro-immigration" attitude from many people on the left is driven entirely by those same people living and working in areas that the immigrants could never afford. Rarely have I seen someone so dense to openly admit it and still think they have the moral high-ground.

  23. You do know that most of the problems ..... by gDLL · · Score: 0

    You do know that most of the problems in central america are US caused.

    BWHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, just how out of this world naive can you be to even consider such a thing.....

  24. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No - They never see the difference. They're stupid, they have reduced reasoning capabilities. It's that simple.

  25. Show us how it is done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show us how it is done, and bring in homeless around your area to live in your house.

    No? Double standards? Bullshit walks.

    1. Re:Show us how it is done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >No?
      Yes? I'm enjoying my seven-dollar easily-controlled maid very much, thanks.

  26. until people stop wanting to come here.... by gDLL · · Score: 1

    Good point !! And have you thought about the various causes that would lead to such a thing ? Hmm? Have you ?

  27. An even better use for the revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better yet, fine people making prank calls, use money to build the wall.

    Or use the money to subsidize (possibly to the point of complete elimination) the various fees and expenses of visas, becoming a citizen, etc. If we can get the cost of legal immigration down to $0 and the time down to an hour or less, illegal immigration will become obsolete.

    The delays and expenses of citizenship and visas are a government-created problem (it simply wouldn't happen in a free market, i.e. a conservative paradise). If we can offset them with fine revenue, we can totally undermine the barriers that the left put up which are preventing a free market in the availabiliy of labor. This would reduce costs across the entire economy, leaving more money in every American's pocket.

    1. Re:An even better use for the revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, jimmy crackhead, please tell us what value someone who has zero dollars, and zero time, brings to the US economy? How does this completely broke and disheveled person make the US a better place for all? They might need a job, assuming they don't sustain themselves off of the social safety nets, and with zero money, zero time, and zero skills, they just competed with someone born, raised, and invested in the US already.

       

    2. Re:An even better use for the revenue by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Yeah, or just get rid of citizenship all together and save even more money!

    3. Re:An even better use for the revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please tell us what value someone who has zero dollars, and zero time, brings to the US economy

      Gosh, I don't know much about this particular person yet. But is it relevant? We normally don't worry about what value our citizens bring to the economy. Why would immigrants be a special exception? If someone ever thinks up a reasonable way to apply this question to immigrants, it's a sure thing that the very next idea (you'd have ot be crazy not to) would be to test natural-born citizens by the same measure. Perhaps citizenship could become a temporary thing, where unemployed people get expelled from the US for not bringing something to the economy.

      More interestingly, in addition to the unemployed, there's also the over-paid or uncompetitive. They obviously bring less to the economy than average. If we were to expell them too, it would create vacancies in the labor market which could be filled by cheaper immigrants, thereby allowing them to bring higher value to the economy.

      And so, I think that's the case which happens to answer your question! The value these immigrants bring to the economy is that they can replace the native born who aren't providing value to the economy (or who are bringing less), once we start making policies based on peoples' economic value.

      If such a scenario occurs, we're going to need someone to replace the worthless people that we would get rid of. Immigrants would be perfect for this.

      I think about 99% of American voters would be strongly opposed to the idea of having citizenship start to become a function of a person's economic value, though. If I were a typical Republican or Democrat, I would be terrified out of my wits by the idea. At least in rural areas. But even in urban areas where finding jobs is easier, I think your idea would be unpopular.

    4. Re:An even better use for the revenue by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Or help improve poverty in Central America. Illegal immigration from Mexico has gone down and primarily because its economy has been improving. However illegal immigration from Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador has gone up because those economies are bad, the police there are ineffective, and the governments are failing. When most illegal immigrants are willing to endure the extremely hazardous desert crossing, then it's clear that a tougher stance isn't going to be much deterrence.

    5. Re:An even better use for the revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtually every country considers the ability of someone to be economically self-sustaining when considering granting permanent resident status to that person. True refugees are one example of exceptions to this general rule though.

  28. Has been replaced by 1-844-wyt-fear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UouJ9HT3WOs

  29. Re: illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not if I can doublethink the trouble away! 'White' invasion = bad, other invasion = good.

  30. Criminal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People whine and cry that Trump is a bully, but the fact that they aren't pursuing the prank callers with obstruction of justice and wire fraud charges is proof that he's just a wimp in the face of opposition.

  31. wbr1 & b0z0k0ku typical tards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blame business men and farmers and drug warrior politicians on this illegal alien migration will you? Let us see about it. Mexico south Border border laws will have you arrested or shot for trespass just like u ask yet Mexico demands open borders on the US side and when drug cartels cant getvtge land owner to sell out they torture them and boil them alive until death 3 days in a oil drum just like Guanatamo and CIA and ICE and DHS(?).

    Then there is that walk of Hondurans to consider. I learned of this walk by a Hope Chapel food worker in here in Hermosa Beach who told me he already drives food for over 300 families and this current immigration wave will be difficult to accomodate and he found out unlike Mexicans who received free handheld gps tools to illegally enter USA these Hondurans were payed individually HANDSOMELY by a liberal CAPITALIST named George Soros to walk through a bribed Mexico border unscathed for reasons of entering USA illegally. Rather each of these supposedly dowtrodden so-called assylumseekers use their US currencies in their collapsed economy (oh wait nope it is doing just fine) to invest or rebuild or just live (n1gger rich) in Honduras or hey howbout migrate to US side of Panama but no they were payed to walk passed their Mexico enemies to create a legislative opportunity to simulate a dispute that otherwise each one be shot before even a wafting odor of approaching America.

    as for me i think So America is TEXAS and No America is MONTANA so dont let these mongrel bastards confuse you two with thei AshkeNAZI assistant George Soros as being hospitable because the rape and AIDS train has arrived at the border and only AMERICA can save them not Honduras and not MEXICO and not GEORGE SOROS. if uwanba be generous humanitarian then ugo let them live in and sh1t on ur lands.

    1. Re:wbr1 & b0z0k0ku typical tards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're sure a waste of oxygen. Come back when you've learned how to actually write.

  32. ICE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But ICE doesn't go after immigrants, it goes after criminals... They are illegal immigrants.
    Come legally and no problem.

  33. Sane solutions by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    It's a myth most Democrats are for "open borders". Most also want to curb illegal immigration, but the current administration is doing it wrong. Walls are too easy to defeat by themselves, and expensive. I propose the following steps:

    1. Hire and train more border guards. Democrats have proposed this before; they are usually not against it. (I say "usually" because, yes, they do play political games, as both parties do.)

    2. Invest R&D in crosser auto-detection. Past attempts failed, but if research is kept up, they'll get better with time.

    3. Audit business payroll and hiring. This will require tax money and will inconvenience businesses. (Businesses lobbying against this is one reason why GOP has been reluctant to act.)

    4. Some sort of amnesty is probably necessary. We don't have the manpower to boot out those already here, and many of them have established family ties.

    5. Try to bring peace to Central and South American countries rocked by violence and drug wars.

    6. Treat people and countries with respect. Insults and harsh treatment of children only make the problem worse.

    7. Have a more flexible temporary migrant worker system.

  34. Good poem - but only partial truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Yes people leave bad places, or even ones with fairly mild discomfort - most of that poem doesn't apply to the economic migrants that are ON TOPIC.

    Even in the case of the ones running from evil - rather than staying and fighting it - which evil prospered because they didn't nip it in the bud...should we spend our blood and treasure fixing it for them, we who DID manage to avoid that mess by not being stupid and setting up a better system - emphasizing self reliance instead of blaming it all on others, when they wouldn't take care of themselves?
    And when we do, people like you call it meddling, because honestly, it is, even if the intent is good - because you can't fix .... some things. Culture is ingrained as well as human nature, and well the classic one you can't fix. Stupid.
    Same kind of stupid who thinks all things are "my side vs his", all questions have just one right and one wrong answer, and because your guy is obviously wrong, my guy/philosophy/tribe is completely right. Grow up.

  35. Crazy people shipping bombs by huckamania · · Score: 1

    We really need to stop trying to classify each sicko in our society as a political operative. It's ghoulish to take a tragedy and try to make political hay out of it.

    Also, you don't know who is shipping bombs nor their motivation (unless it is you!).

  36. nICE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cool, ICE should be abolished, it's redundant and horribly run.

    1. Re:nICE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is the Dept of Education. Can we make a deal? Replace ICE with whatever they are redundant with and we will let states handle thier own Education issues.

    2. Re:nICE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and we will let states handle thier own Education issues.

      The way many states handled their own education issues is WHY we have the Department of Education.

  37. left-vs-right on border policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am liberal. I do not support 'wide open borders'. I do not know anyone that does.

    Having less restrictive borders is more of a conservative position, so of course as a liberal, you'd be against it.

    It's just confusing because it's an issue where Republicans in 2016 were distinctively more liberal than Democrats .. and won an election because of it. (It used to be less "wedgy.") The competition for supplying labor has been getting more intense over the last few decades, so more people are starting to want a planned economy to protect their own position instead of having to "race to the bottom." This has been going on ever since the first industrial revolution, and it always breeds leftist ideology. Marx and Engels paved the way for one of the most [in]famous examples, and Trump spotted that it is definitely still a thing, so he made it part of his platform and exploited it.

    In 2028 we'll probably be talking about laws to prohibit automation. That would also be a leftist position, but there's no telling which major party will claim it first, and the other major party will have to oppose. And liberal-vs-conservative has jack shit to do with which party takes which position. It'll come down to which candidate's polling/marketing company first picks it, and then they just need to frame it so that the other guys have to oppose it and get stuck with the less popular position.

    For 2016, the framing was racism. Republicans tend to be more racist, so by presenting hostility to immigration as "racist" they didn't alienate their base, while also forcing the Democrats to be against the increased controls in order to be against racism. It was brilliant, because Democrats tend to be liberal so of course they want tighter borders too. Conservatives were ideologically left in the cold but they are fewer in numbers anyway, and and at least it comes with racism. It's sort of like how you can hate taxes but love buying super-expensive B2 bombers, so some taxes are ok. To many Republicans, a centrally planned (i.e. highly restricted) supply of immigrants might artificially mess with the market for labor (a bad thing, from a conservative point of view) but you get to "stick it to spics," so they say "ok, I'll go along with it despite the ideological downside, but only for hate's sake!"

  38. Re:illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Oh wait, that destroys your whole argument.

    Yes, AND the argument of the strong border people.

  39. Re:illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasi by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

    The problem is the second term in your equation is false.

    Just like every group of immigrants before them, it's grandchildren who are fully assimilated.

  40. So..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of Using the line like it was meant, now the government has to spend more money to counter the fools that want to prank the line

  41. Re:I don't get it..."Give me your tired, your poor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better update the Statue of Liberty then "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..."

    The Statue's intent was a celebration of the Enlightenment's ideal of liberty. That poem was a fundraising effort to raise funds to build the pedestal that the Statue rests on. The French gave us the Statue freely but did not provide a pedestal. (Thanks anyway, France, since it is a nice statue even if pricey to keep polished up and looking sharp. You can't really imagine any nation making the gift of a monument to shared revolutionary political ideals to another nation nowadays. But that was all part of the late Enlightenment era.)

    I'll note that the Statue only ever greeted immigrants from Europe arriving at their East coast entry stations. There is no Statue on the southern or northern or western borders of the States. The Statue has only ever welcomed immigrants arriving in the New York City area, the most common entry point for all new immigrants over a long period of time.

    Besides, it's just a statue. It stood there through eras of immigration liberalization and sharp restrictions on immigration. And it's poem is not U.S. law or consistent with its history when fairly appraised.

  42. Simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hang the traitors.

  43. INORITE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, no schitt. They apparently didn't read this line in your OP:

    They are willing to work harder for less pay and no bitching.

    Redneck Libertarian if I've ever heard one, y'all.

  44. Greedy Imperialist Pig Dogs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Greedy fucking American! You already got a new Polio and now you want the Smallpox too? It's never enough with you people. We give you an inch and you take a mile. You fuckers never learn!

  45. dumbass 'merkins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just look how absolutely stupid you 'merkins look to the world. reap it dumbasses.

  46. Since when? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In-Circuit Emulation has a hotline?!

  47. Re:illlegal Immigration + no assimilation = invasi by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

    Here is a thought. Name one fucking nation/origional occupant that DID NOT TRY TO CONTROL immigration to THEIR LAND. No matter what fucking generation.

    --
    Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time