Slashdot Mirror
'We Expected VR To Be Two To Three Times as Big', Says CCP Games CEO (roadtovr.com)
CCP Games, the Icelandic studio known for their long-running MMO Eve: Online (2003), shuttered their VR production studios in a surprise move last year, selling off their Newcastle-based branch behind their multiplayer space dogfighter EVE: Valkyrie (2016), and completely shutting down their Atlanta studio behind sports game Sparc (2017). Now, CEO Hilmar Veigar Petursson speaks out in an interview with Destructoid about the studio's return to traditional desktop gaming, and his thoughts about the VR landscape. From a report: In short, he thought VR would be bigger by now, and more capable of supporting a healthy multiplayer userbase. EVE: Valkyrie, the company's flagship VR game, was the result of over three years of development before becoming a day-one launch title on Oculus Rift and PSVR, arriving shortly afterwards on HTC Vive via Steam in 2016 -- a seemingly best-case scenario for any multiplayer-only game.
Under CCP direction, EVE: Valkyrie saw a number of updates designed to entice players back, including new ships, maps, and weekly events; CCP even pushed a major update to the game last year that brought support for desktop and console players, a move to help boost sales and revive the ailing VR-only playerbase. Still, the multiplayer game just didn't perform as CCP ultimately expected, and the company officially stepped back from VR shortly thereafter. "We expected VR to be two to three times as big as it was, period," Petursson tells Destructoid. "You can't build a business on that."
Under CCP direction, EVE: Valkyrie saw a number of updates designed to entice players back, including new ships, maps, and weekly events; CCP even pushed a major update to the game last year that brought support for desktop and console players, a move to help boost sales and revive the ailing VR-only playerbase. Still, the multiplayer game just didn't perform as CCP ultimately expected, and the company officially stepped back from VR shortly thereafter. "We expected VR to be two to three times as big as it was, period," Petursson tells Destructoid. "You can't build a business on that."
I never expected VR to be bigger.
It always seemed like a no-go for me. At least for now. Most people play games to relax and de-stress. When playing VR is as simple as sitting on the settee and wearing something as light and simple as a pair of sunglasses, people will play VR in numbers. When the sights looks lifelike and not uncanny valley, and don't leave you nauseous... people will like it.
VR probably will rebound in the future but for now it's a dying fad for a niche market. As long as you have to wear bulky contraptions with head straps and fit into awkward devices I'd much rather just have a keyboard, mouse and a monitor- you can keep your VR.
Someday in the future VR will take off- but today's generation is not good enough to warrant a big market. All the best gaming experience is still to be found on a flat screen. VR is a curiosity for those willing to spend money on unproven tech but not what most people want.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
None of the big VR headset makers want pron on their store so noone buys $400 headsets and $1000 rigs when there is no content.
Dust 514 would probably also have been much more successful if they had launched it on the PC and not just PS4.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
They should use the "zoom" feature
Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
I lost interest in VR once Oculus was bought by Facebook.
http://progressquest.com/spoltog.php?name=Son+Of+Son+Of+DarkRookie
Yes, but admittedly it's always simply because the tech isn't good enough.
This time, admittedly, the tech was SIGNIFICANTLY better than in previous attempts, but it's still not to the point of true seamless immersion.
Unlike other techs, VR pretty much has to be more or less "perfect" or most people aren't interested. That makes developing it incrementally hard - you can't finance the next gen of it with profits from the current gen. Instead every few years we just have to try it again based on technological advancements made due to other segments of the industry and hope that everything has gotten good enough.
I'd say that whenever VR is finally perfected, it will be nothing short of amazing. That said, I don't think it's there yet. I don't even though the next attempt or two will be there yet. Maybe in 20-30 years.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
and miners. For the last 18 months you couldn't get a VR capable graphics card for less than $500 and the PS4 Pro just isn't powerful enough.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Unlike other techs, VR pretty much has to be more or less "perfect" or most people aren't interested.
I don't agree. What it has to be is either perfect, or cheap. Since it is neither of these things, it's a non-starter suitable only for tech demos.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Exactly this.
$700 for a video card is ludicrous. $700 for a video card that launched 2 years ago is beyond ludicrous, it's gone plaid.
VR *HAS BEEN* (for decades) and always will be a niche. On what basis did he think it was gonna go big? It's a very cool concept, sure, but your average players are never going to strap a helmet to their heads to play a game that you still have to use a joystick with.
In fact that's not even really "VR" - just a 360 degree view with head control.
Now - you make a thought control interface (ala Sword Art Online... without the microwave frier...) or a full suit interface (ala Ready Player One) where the player's entire body can be engaged and receive feedback - THAT would take off.
VR as it stands right now is nothing more than 3D or where voice control was about 10 years ago.
It's a novelty.
Sorry, but that comparison is laughable and is certainly not common sense. 3D was not a solution to anything. VR, the real interactive kind and not just the 360 video with which it's often conflated, allows a form of interactivity that didn't exist. The real problem, or one of them, is that not enough effort has been put into making it do useful things besides entertainment. The marketing to consumer was all wrong and has too many people thinking it's just another game peripheral.
The issues currently:
1. Low resolution, most "VR" games are half resolution, and since it takes up your entire visual field unlike a computer screen, that makes it equivalent to looking at a 240p game. That's nowhere near good enough for an immersive game, and at best gives you 80's nostalgia.
2. Input is the shittiest thing ever. You can not see the game controller. VR needs to quite literately go back and re-invent the power glove at the minimum and work from there. It may be possible to mimic this with multiple cameras on the HMD and the environment, but the requirement is still there.
3. No haptic feedback, if you bump into something in the game, you should be knocked to the ground/aside, which won't happen with a HMD or game controller. This lack of feedback is the same reason why people won't switch from a mechanical keyboard to something like a software-keyboard based on a touch screen. There is no way for the user to know they are in fact giving input when they can't see their hands or the input buttons.
That's the issues that need to be overcome, how they can be overcome:
1. 8K support when GPU's hit 5nm.
2. Bring back power-glove style input at the minimum, some alternive BCI (Brain Computer Interface) would be ideal, and we know they exist, but are too invasive.
3. This goes back to needing a 500sq ft room to really use VR, you will never be able to properly play a VR game sitting down. But you can largely improve the experience if you have "force feedback" built into a chair or bodysuit. The game shouldn't need to physically throw you to the ground, but you should feel like you're being pushed, and that part of your body actually being pushed.
Films like Ready Player One, kinda try to oversell VR in a way that would never be practical. Yes the VirtualBoy was trash, but pretty much everything regarding VR looks like it.
Like this is what needs to happen:
1. Intel needs to quit being shitty and put 64 PCIe lanes on the CPU so that 4 GPU's can be used at 16X instead of the present situation where you can only do this with a $40,000 workstation. AMD could step up their game here as AMD X399 has 66.
2. Route separate GPU's to each eye, and "SLI" them to get the necessary resolution to wrap around the player's head and peripheral vision.
That would solve the HMD issues.
3. Re-invent the power glove using existing wireless input technology. There has been attempts https://mimugloves.com/
4. Haptics are also on the "attempts" list https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/02/holosuit-promises-full-body-vr-tracking-and-haptics-by-november-2018/
The largest problem is really software support for all of this. At best a "VR" game right now just a conventional "3D" game with the camera shifted and warped. It's not really VR by any measurable means yet. A 16-button 6-axis controller is not an appropriate input device inside a world where you should be able to move your arms.
As someone who's tried most VR tech since the early 90s, all my experience with the current generation suggests that the tech is indeed good enough.
In particular, I get lost in the Steam/HTC Vive setup my friend has every time I use it. Google Earth alone is a killer app, if you know where to go (I'm a climber: try Yosemite or Eldorado Canyon in Boulder, they've imaged the cliffs in both places to the point where you can actually see the handholds and make out routes). The paint programs are surreal as well.
I get motion sick easily. This is the first generation of VR gear that I've been able to spend 30+ minutes with the headset on and feel fine afterwards.
So, why don't I have my own VR setup? Two reasons: (1) cost and (2) I have half of it. For the latter, I purchased an X-Box One X for my son specifically because MS was setting it up as a VR platform. $500 for a game console was steep, but the hardware was right for good VR. Unfortunately, MS has now signaled that VR is not coming to the platform and I've overpaid for a gaming console. (yes, I should have just bought a PS4)
Cost, and to a lesser extent the hassle associated with that cost, is what I think is the real issue. Without a consumer friendly setup in the $500-700 range all-in that supports all VR content (PS4's problem is content), it's just too expensive to get started. I don't want to drop a few grand on a high end gaming PC, then the hundreds on the VR gear, plus the time it will take to setup and maintain the PC. It's just too expensive in money and time commitment.
The tech is there. There are compelling apps. It's just still too expensive to get started.
-Chris
It won't ever work. The disconnect between what the eye sees and the inner ear senses will cause motion sickness. This cannot be corrected because it is physiological.
I think you meant it's biological. In any case, I had no problems until I put a car through a wall and didn't feel the expected deceleration. I became instantly more nauseous than I can recall ever having felt and I was left with a 24hour migraine; that was a first as well.
What doesn't work well is anything that involves big movement -- the flight simulator I have makes me queasy in a matter of seconds and I don't get motion sick. If it's making me queasy, I imagine the volume of vomit it'll produce from someone who's actually prone to motion sickness. Any big FPS type thing also feels pretty clunky. If you can stand still or move within a fairly small area, you can make a decent game of it. For the tech to really work well, I feel like you need to be able to run without having to to worry about the cable or breaking your kneecaps on the coffee table. If you could do that, it'd be great for getting the next generation of gamers into shape.
I was really looking forward to a higher resolution headset and speced my gaming PC to be able to handle eit, but with HTC's financial trouble and the lack of much new content for the platform, it looks like I'll probably have to wait a while for the next iteration. Too bad, you can really see the potential in the current generation.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?