Bitcoin Falls Below $5,000 For First Time Since October 2017 (bbc.com)

The value of Bitcoin has hit a new low of $4,951, bringing the total value of all Bitcoin in existence to below $87 billion. Much of the turmoil can be attributed to the split of Bitcoin Cash on November 15th. The Bitcoin offshoot has been split into two different cryptocurrencies, which are now in competition with each other. The BBC reports: Bitcoin exchange Kraken said in a blog post that it regarded one of the two new Bitcoin Cash crypto-currencies -- Bitcoin SV -- as "an extremely risky investment." At its peak, in November 2017, it briefly hit $19,783 - which means the price has fallen by about 75%. After the excitements of last year when the price soared to nearly $20,000 and then tumbled, Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable for much of 2018, settling between $6,000 and $7,000.

Comments

$4,999 more to go

[JoeyRox]

And then it'll be time to move on to the next speculative craze. My money is on collectable emojis.

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Rare Pepes!

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, you think this is a first for bitcoin? It has gone up and down in wild swings many times over the years. That's how people make money with it. If it goes to zero then that's time to buy a billion coins for nothing. In some years it will be at $100k and you sell them. Free money. Rinse and repeat. It has done this many times before and will do it many times again until it's broken.

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Tulips all the way.

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

And then it'll be time to move on to the next speculative craze. My money is on collectable emojis.

It's called Tesla - TSLA. It's STILL way overpriced - unless it becomes as big as Toyota in January 2019.

Re: $4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is that Tesla produces value and profit, has a product people want, and the speculative chance to be larger than Toyota.

The price of stocks do not (and should not) reflect current value. Whoever told you otherwise is fucking retarded, and you are fucking retarded for believing them.

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.

Cryptocurrency is in fact the next big global thing.
Like the telegraph, phone, TV, Internet, Planes, Cars, Rockets, etc.

Global cryptocurrency adoption will hit in under a decade, before the next big thing develops which will be...

DNA based biomedical research and modification... basically, engineered solutions to all human medical issues, including Cancer and Aging, Grown Parts, but probably not including memory transfer.

That biomed adoption is about 35 years out... a bunch of geriatric political and religious thinking has to literally die off before it can go full swing, basically everyone in power born before comprehending exposure as a youth to internet and computers, say about 1970.

Fusion power is probably shortly after that, in part due to reducing aging effects permitting longer study.

Then the world wil re-engineer and optimize itself.

Then Humanity makes the leap off the rock.

By the way, CryptoKitties are perfectly valid if you choose to collect or use them.
The world really is up to you.
Grow up... become free, independant, responsible, charitable human beings for once, instead of remaining sheeple dependant upon State Propaganda teaching you to conform, to accept force and tax theft over you, to harken for murder war jail, to program your children in government madrasas known as "childhood public education". Cryptocurrency is not about that... it is the path to freedom.

Re: $4,999 more to go

[LynnwoodRooster]

TSLA has delivered around 150,000 cars this year; Toyota has delivered about 12,000,000 cars this year. There's roughly a few orders of magnitude in there. Tesla has a LONG way to go before it's even 5% of Toyota, let alone larger than Toyota.

Re: $4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

TSLA has delivered around 150,000 cars this year; Toyota has delivered about 12,000,000 cars this year. There's roughly a few orders of magnitude in there. Tesla has a LONG way to go before it's even 5% of Toyota, let alone larger than Toyota.

I guess Lamborghini and Ferrari are also failures for not producing as many cars as Toyota does >_>

Re:$4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.

None of that shit is going to happen because Thanos is going to kill half the planet instead.

See I can make up retarded predictions too

Re: $4,999 more to go

[LynnwoodRooster]

Nope. but there is no speculation that they will be larger than Toyota. Speculation that Tesla will be bigger than Toyota is just insane.

Re: $4,999 more to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Under two orders of magnitude. Not "a few". Unless by roughly you mean "I don't understand how orders of magnitude work."

Toyota's median car is closer in price to a lawn mower than it is to a Tesla, also.

Re: $4,999 more to go

[LynnwoodRooster]

80 is a lot closer to 100 than it is to 10. It's roughly 2 orders of magnitude. And good for Toyota, they know that if you want to sell a LOT of cars, you need to offer a lot of LOW COST cars, given that the average for a new car is right around $30,000 (quite a bit below the cheapest Tesla on the road). If Tesla wants to overtake Toyota, not only do they need to up their sales about two orders of magnitude, they'd need to cut their average selling price in half or more.

How low does it have to go

[Anonymous Coward]

How low does it have to go before it's no longer profitable / worth the trouble to mine?

Let's ignore operations which are making use of cheap / excess hydro power.

Re:How low does it have to go

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd guess until it costs more to heat an apartment in St. Petersburg (Russia, not Florida) in February by mining bitcoin than by paying for the regular heat.

Re: How low does it have to go

[reanjr]

When that happens, people turn off their miners, the hash rate goes down, the difficulty lowers, and it's profitable again. Whatever price it hits is an amount that will price SOMEONE out of the market. It's meaningless.

No intrinsic value

[melted]

Bitcoin had faith and mindshare. With faith evaporating, there's no intrinsic value to it, so it could go down to 0. This realization further spooks the "investors". It's kind of like a bank run against an extremely over-leveraged bank with no FDIC to prop anything up.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin has utility. It is the only way of digitally transferring value that is not centrally controlled and not a copycat. The Bitcoin blockchain is infrastructure for other decentralized systems too and there are significant investments in hardware that cannot be used for something else, so there are stakeholders who will not easily abandon Bitcoin. Bitcoin can drop a lot more, but it is highly unlikely that it will drop to zero.

Re:No intrinsic value

[melted]

Currently it’s a good way to destroy value

Re: No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for literally every other cryptocoin, most of which have lower transaction costs and security risks to your wallet.

Or hell, limit order penny stocks. Buy, sell, partner does same. $20 each roundtrip anywhere in the world. Works fine if you aren't trying to launder money.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

It has dropped much more before.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Waffle Iron]

Bitcoin has utility. It is the only way of digitally transferring value that is not centrally controlled and not a copycat.

You know, human civilization somehow made it through its first 5,000 years without any means to "digitally transfer value without central control". That doesn't seem to be a problem that's been holding back human achievement in any significant way, and certainly not to the extent that it needs to have a big chunk of the world's electricity output thrown at it.

Re:No intrinsic value

[lgw]

Capital flight has alays been a thing, throughout history. It used to be completely physical: when the government went nuts or collapsed, you'd flee the country with your valuables, and if you were a wealthy trader you likely knew how to smuggle yourself across the border.

These days "valuables" are mostly journal entries in a purely digital world, and the governments have the borders locked down tight. It's the new panopitcon that calls for new ways of smuggling valuables across the border. And that's been the #1 use of BitCoin for years now. I suspect the primary driver for the fall in value in BTC is the Chinese government being ever more successful in stopping capital flight.

Re:No intrinsic value

[ron_ivi]

made it through its first 5,000 years without any means to "digitally transfer value without central control".

On the contrary, for 4900 of the first 5000 years all value was transferred without central control.

It wasn't until electronic payments were common that central control was dominant.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Cryptocurrency is the only freedom oriented global payment, retail, remittance, and savings vwhicle on the planet.

This is why Cryptocurrency will survive and prosper.

No one ever said adoption of new things will not be a bumpy ride.
Especially things that are more freedom than what you have today.
It will just take a while.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no intrinsic value in any Fiat either ever since all commody backing such as gold and silver was stripped from them in the 1970's. ALL Fiat is based on these days is nothing but faith, mindshare, belief, and the immoral threats of murder, violence, and warfare, aka: government guns.

Cryptocurrencies privacy decentralized p2p follow the Non Agression Principle.
They have to in order to succeed in not devolving themselves into just another Fiat.
They are thus better than any Fiat in this regard.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Waffle Iron]

That's one reason for what I stated. You can still transfer value without central control, the same way it has always been done. Adding this particular "digital" way doesn't justify the huge consumption of energy resources that it involves.

Re:No intrinsic value

[furry_wookie]

TOO bad it did not have the technology.

The fact that bitcoin is 100% tractable by governments for every single transaction makes it totally useless as cash replacement. No one wants the government tracking them when they make a small transaction over Craigslist for some lawn furniture, or have to calculate their capital gains when they trade pokemon cards at a flea market. That combined with very slow wait times to make a successful transaction and ensure you are not being ripped off, pretty much make bitcoin useless.

The ONLY thing bitcoin has right now is name recognition. Technologically it SUCKS BALLS compared to other more well designed cryptos like Monero that actually have a chance of delivering on the ideas of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will never do it, and anyone with a clue is done with Bitcoin.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Antique Geekmeister]

Perhaps in the first 4900 years of culture, there was no central authority. In every tribe and every family that I knew of, in most families and tribes, the leader limited the size of exchanges, exchange rates, and in many cases whether the the transaction would occur at all.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Prien715]

You know, human civilization somehow made it through its first 5,000 years without any means to "digitally transfer value without central control". That doesn't seem to be a problem that's been holding back human achievement in any significant way

Money laundering is a $2 trillion industry and it's excellent for that. Or maybe you're in North Korea and you want to carry out a ransomware attack. How will you possibly get paid with all those sanctions? Wanna sell drugs on the dark web and are looking for a currency? Bitcoin certainly solves all of these problems for criminal enterprises and pariah states.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that

- among digitally transferred currencies.... *without* central control is in fact a necessity towards progress away from immoral war, murder, theft via taxation... and toward self enablement and charity for all human beings

- electricity consumption by cryptocurrency *absolutely unequivocally FAILS* to even come close the that consumed by all the systems supporting the worlds Fiats.... their politicians salaries healt retirement, their buildings construction maintenanace heating cooling, all their cars and fuel and environmental impacts etc.

Cryptocurrency takes only highly optimized, narrow silos of
- Silicon sand
- Electricity of any source
- Internet (sand + electricity)

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

search youtube: taxation is theft

Re:No intrinsic value

[Waffle Iron]

Except that

- among digitally transferred currencies.... *without* central control is in fact a necessity towards progress away from immoral war, murder, theft via taxation... and toward self enablement and charity for all human beings

- electricity consumption by cryptocurrency *absolutely unequivocally FAILS* to even come close the that consumed by all the systems supporting the worlds Fiats.... their politicians salaries healt retirement, their buildings construction maintenanace heating cooling, all their cars and fuel and environmental impacts etc.

Cryptocurrency takes only highly optimized, narrow silos of
- Silicon sand
- Electricity of any source
- Internet (sand + electricity)

You forgot the fourth, fat, silo:
-Kool-Aid

You'll need plenty more of that, given your current levels of consumption.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Joce640k]

You mean like when it dropped from $20,000 to $8000?

You might notice it never went back to $20,000. Just saying.

Apart from that one, no it hasn't dropped this much before.

Re: No intrinsic value

[houghi]

So it is basically like anything else on the stockmarket these days.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

It has dropped more than 75% before: $1155 in Nov 2013 to $160 in Jan 2015 was a 85% drop. It would have to drop to less than $3000 from $20000 to beat that.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Joce640k]

Should happen this week...

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not saying it won't, just that it hasn't yet and that it is unlikely it will drop to zero. Things with utility that don't exist abundantly in nature are rarely free.

Re:No intrinsic value

[jeremyp]

"not a copycat" doesn't confer utility.

  "not centrally controlled" might confer some advantage, but there's nothing in the Bitcoin technology that can prevent it from being centrally controlled. If one person controls 51% of the mining capability, Bitcoin is then centrally controlled. In any case, not being centrally controlled does not, of itself confer utility. My credit card is centrally controlled and it is a more effective means of transferring value than bitcoin, at least for legal transactions.

"digitally transferring value" is utility, but, if Bitcoin is tanking for any other reason, it loses its utility for digitally transferring value.

Thus Bitcoin absolutely can drop to zero and at some point in the future, it will. The only question is will it be in the near future or the distant future.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

There was no need for cars in the first place, people thought. Horses were a perfect way of transporting people and things around.

Not everything you do not understand is not a reality.

Re:No intrinsic value

[jythie]

The problem with all that infrastructure is it is expensive to operate, so as soon as fees made from transactions drop below the power costs, the stakeholders will rapidly drop out. Arms races only work when there is something worth racing over. Just look at Easter Island.

Re:No intrinsic value

[jythie]

*nod * both 'not copycat' and 'not centralized' are ideological merics, their utility is purely emotional.

Re:No intrinsic value

[jythie]

Fiat currency has the same basic value gold and silver did when they became common : you can pay your taxes in it and the state pays all of its bills using it.

Re:No intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin is constructed to balance that out. As miners take their rigs offline because their costs are higher than their earnings, the difficulty decreases and the remaining miners receive the same total reward with a lower total power cost. The miners with the highest costs drop out until an equilibrium is reached between the costs and the value of the Bitcoin earned.

You people need to STOP BULLYING ME... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: I'm so sick & tired of /. BULLIES. You shitweasels have nothing better to do than HARASS, STALK & IMPERSONATE little ol' me. I've done absolutely NOTHING wrong & just try to make everyone's lives better w/ my work that stops ads & malware.

* As soon as I post, I'm CENSORED to -1 w/ ABUSED downmodpoints by bullies like ZIP, who even admit to this. I caught c6gunner mocking then IMPERSONATING me when he forgot to log out. Zontar mailed me a postcard w/ THREATS on it, then LIES & STALKS me. All because you JEALOUS JOWIE "ne'er-do-wells" KNOW I'm World-Class & you're shit. It's why you hide behind FAKE names & UNIDENTIFIABLE ANONYMOUS.

I'm even improving my already GREAT PHYSIQUE & INTELLECT while you weezils sit around all day on /. STALKING & HARASSING your BETTERS. I repeatedly dust the no-mind bullshit blatherings you BULLIES post to attack me. Like always I WIN & YOU LOSE.

APK

P.S.=> This BULLYING of me is SO UNFAIR & I've done NOTHING to deserve it. GROW UP. This is the only comment I'm posting in this article & others signed as me are weezils IMPERSONATING ME... apk

bf

[blackomegax]

This is the black friday discount before going to the moon. get in while you can or be poor.

Re:bf

[willaien]

Or don't speculate on such a volatile commodity. Sure, it might see some corrections, but, I see no reason to believe it will not just continue going down over time.

Re:bf

[Anonymous Coward]

You first. I'd rather be certain I'll stay poor than take a stupid risk and become broke.

Especially *knowing* the odds are stacked against anyone making anything at all.

We can come back here in a few months and compare notes.

Re:bf

[Anonymous Coward]

Five will get you ten, ten will get you twenty.

Re:bf

[Anonymous Coward]

funny enough this most likely the safer investment at the moment vs Bitcoin

Re:bf

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes Black Friday and Christmas are a major factor as everyone spends their Cryptocurrency online and it is instantly converted by most sellers 100% into Fiat. Some do holdback small percent of their profits in the form of Cryptocurrency. Chinese New Year and other events around the world are the same.

Long term, Cryptocurrency is rising compared to all Fiat, and more importantly, is slowly becoming adopted into payments, remittance, retail, savings, p2p worldwide.

There is no stopping that because quite simply:
Cryptocurrency is faster, global, and more importantly more *freedom* than any Fiat.

A few more years and $4k, $20k ... will be far supassed.

Re:bf

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that all of the suckers who would fall for the old "FOMO" trick bought back in late 2017 for $19,000 each.

Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Alascom]

>...Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...
Exactly what one wants to see in a store of value.

Let's reflect on anti-bitcoin sentiment:
Volatile and erratic == bitcoin bad
Dull and stable == bitcoin bad

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Luckyo]

Bitcoin investors are not a monolithic entity. There are many different investors with diametrically opposed preferences and interests. Speculators for example want volatile and erratic, while institutional investors want dull and stable.

Being both is the worst of all possible options, as that means it's unattractive to both speculators and institutional investors.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Balial]

I read this as "dull" referring to, very little trading volume:

https://data.bitcoinity.org/ma...

ie. nobody cares unless it's going up. If there was a decent trading volume when it was stable, that would be an excellent thing for bitcoin. That's not what's been going on.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Luthair]

I'm not sure how losing 75% of its value in less than a year is stable. Heck, its lost 17% in the last week.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[ranton]

Dull and stable == bitcoin bad

I never saw that sentiment in the article or summary. They simply said it was dull and stable with no indication that is a bad thing.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[roman_mir]

Memories, memories As I said there:

It can be either valuable or stable but not both. If it is valuable, it will not be stable, if it is stable it will not be valuable. It is valuable as long as the instability allows for wild price swings.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

I got in about 8 days ago. The exact wrong time. The lure of fast cars and exotic women (or was it fast women and exotic cars? It all seems so long ago, now) roped me in and now I've taken a 20% haircut. I want to sell to keep the remaining 80% safe; however then I will have to explain to my wife what happened to that money. At this point I'm considering doubling-down to try to come out ahead if we have a reversion to the mean and the levels that have been the norm up until this point, at least recently. Honestly I'm afraid this could cost me my marriage and potentially much, much more money during the divorce if she finds out there's been another woman for the past 1.5 years (and the lawyers likely will find out). What a fucking disaster.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Forgot one:

Imaginary Property = bitcoin bad = all other IP supposedly bad too.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

When I told my wife, she said "That's a relief, I thought you spent it on fast cars and exotic women."

Re: Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you should definitely invest more. All of the technical analysts (who are also bitcoin holders) agree that purchasing new coins with the soon to be defunct US dollar is the right thing to do. They may even sell you some of theirs.

Re: Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like Bitcoin is the least of your worries in this situation. I would have started by not cheating on your spouse, followed up by not lying and keeping financial news from your spouse.

Thirdly at the very end is this small investment that you made which ended up being a bad idea but that's really not the biggest problem that I've heard.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

"bitcoin investors". just reading that makes me laugh my fucking ass off. thats how fucking stupid it sounds.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Luckyo]

Their laugher early on was much better than yours. There are quite a few who made a killing on it, and are in the game only for small portions of their early bitcoin-based fortunes. If it completely folded tomorrow, they ultimately still made out with massive profits.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

What could cost you your marriage is being a fucking piece of shit, and frankly you deserve it.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Lanthanide]

For every dollar gained in bitcoin, someone else lost it.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cryptocurrency is the only freedom oriented global payment, retail, remittance, and savings vwhicle on the planet.

Cryptocurrency is not an investment, it is a new way of doing
things.

That is why Cryptocurrency will survive and prosper.

A byproduct of a non inflationary known issuance cryptocurrency
is in fact investment gain, but only until steady state adoption
is reached. At that point any gain is not in the adoption curve
but in the financial offerings that rely upon it. No different than
any Fiat today.

No one ever said adoption of new things will not be a bumpy ride.
Especially things that are more freedom than what you have today.
As with any revolution, it will just take a while.

Whether you like it or not, this revolution *IS* coming, so hold on for the ride.

Re:Bitcoin has been rather dull and stable...

[Luckyo]

This is true for any zero sum investment, and bitcoin is tiny in comparison to many such investments.

LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Anonymous Coward]

rather dull and stable Vs going up/down too fast. Either way is bad now? Cue the usually lies on here, no intrinic value blah blah lie, tulips blah blah lie, ponzi scheme blah blah lie. Enjoy :D

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Balial]

These aren't lies.

Low trading volume in the stable period means a lack of interest in anything except the speculation:

https://data.bitcoinity.org/ma...

That's not healthy for any security.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[HornWumpus]

It's basically a 'penny stock'.

One million $/day trading volume is easily manipulated by any of the big Chinese miners.

That chart shows 200 bitcoin (including alts)/day as total trading volume. That seems low, for such a popular penny stock.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Anonymous Coward]

No this is sadly more disinfo in my book. You had some powerful entites play with bitcoin for gains and they stopped and the real bitcoin trading returned. Just because they had lots of cash that dwarfed the usual bitcoins transactions does not mean "lack of interest in anything except the speculation" Here's what you do you :- chop off the speculative start of the graph then you can boost the current bands up to max so they fill you screen and you feel better, great everyting looks fine. It should however mean a return back to a more stable baseline. 6000 always seemed speculator influenced and high but has managed to hold on for pretty long time, lets not forget that the big speculators/manuipulators come in when price was at about 600.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Anonymous Coward]

Well your data has nothing to do with these ideas. Good job on the +5 by the way.

1) No intrinic value
"value does not exist outside the consciousness of men" Carl Menger
If I told you the note in your pocket was just a piece of worthless paper and single piece of toilet paper was worth more as i could at least wipe my ass on it, you would disagree no? Of course that note is governement backed whilst bitcoin is cryptographically backed, both governments and networks can fail.

2) It like the tulip mania
So you are saying a localised phenomena that lasted for about 6 months (and collapsed in a few days) in the 1600's has parallels with a digital currency whose volumes(i know you like that stuff) are an order of magnitude larger and on a global scale. Gtf thats just a false meme.

3) Its a Ponzi scheme
well a ponzi scheme is centrally driven scam designed to eventually blow up usually quite early on. Bitcoin is neither of these. Ergo it is not a ponzi scheme, it is nothing like one.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Kjella]

It's basically a 'penny stock'. One million $/day trading volume is easily manipulated by any of the big Chinese miners.

Yeah, except in this case I'm not so sure even they are in control.... cause a big drop, does it crash and burn instead of letting you buy cheap? Start a big price hike, are people buying into it again or are they glad to recover their losses and bail? With a penny stock they know who's playing and being played, here it's more like a herd that can at any moment set off on a crazy stampede.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[HornWumpus]

The unknown is how much of that volume are fake trades at fictitious prices between left and right pocket of some miner.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Antique Geekmeister]

Or high frequency trading, engaging in arbitrage.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not disinfo at all.

You can make a counterargument that the volumes of non-speculative transactions demonstrate the crypto network is creating value sufficient to justify the maintenance costs and the price of the currency. But that would require at least some back of the envelope figures to hold it up.

Or you can spread disinfo by failing to actually make an argument at all with a "great everyting looks fine" handwave.

Re:LOL Bitcoin can't win

[HornWumpus]

Arbitrage in that thin a market? Danger Will Robinson!

HFT doesn't really work when it takes an hour to clear a trade.

More seriously - there are better currencies.

[ron_ivi]

Bitcoin was the (technologically) best currency at the time it launched.

These days there are better.

For example, Monero's better in some ways.

People shouldn't stay married to the old technology when the better comes around. These currencies (with no actual value) aren't long-term investments. They're payment vehicles. And with better ones around (more private, cheaper transactions, etc) it's no surprise people leave bitcoin.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[melted]

The problem is, dollar is better than all of them combined. It's literally too big to fail.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[OneHundredAndTen]

It may be better, but it remains a vehicle for speculators and money laundering, and little (if anything) else.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

There's no post-quantum cryptocurrency, the storage costs to make a post-quantum cryptocurrency are untenable for any transaction load approaching Bitcoin's, and quantum computers are developing at a pace which following the last decade's trends linearly places them at 2023 at the latest before pre-quantum algorithms become worthless. There's no way to make the post-quantum cutover without centralization due to storage requirements, thereby killing the only selling point of cryptocurrencies. Everyone with knowledge of cryptography knows this, so everyone hyping cryptocurrencies is either ignorant of the technologies involved or outright spewing manipulative hype.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, the US$ is failing, in many ways, mostly due to ignoramus Republicans and profligate spending.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Quantum computers will not perform competitively for another 100 years. Very like cold fusion. So threatening anything with quantum-driven AI is BS .... Bosco ...

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[sheramil]

I would tentatively confine discussion of post-quantum problems until we have actually had quantum problems.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Found libtard SJW cultural marxist. You people are stupid.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Still holding out hope for that Trumpocalypse that will retroactively justify all your rabid seething hate, huh?

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Contrary... it is the biggest behemoth ready to topple over of its own gluttony.
All it will take is a little coordinated push... faster, harder.
Global p2p private cryptocurrency is the only way out of the centuries of mess created by Fiat Governments Bankers and Corporations upon you the sheeple.
You are the ones who must charitably educate and lift the masses from the grasp of Fiat control.
You must help not only yourselves, but them, help humanity.

Grow up... become free, independant, responsible, charitable human beings for once, instead of remaining greedy sheeple dependant upon State Propaganda teaching you to conform, to accept force and tax theft over you, to spy surveill control lock and censor your every move, to harken for murder war jail, to chill your speech, to program your children with their faulty software in government madrasas known as "childhood public education".
Cryptocurrency is not about that... it is the path to freedom.

You need to free your minds and think heavily about that.
When you do, you will know that Cryptocurrency must be adopted.
And you will spend your days fulfilled making sure it happens.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you quit buying the drug addled coolaid spread by shills, you'd realize that Monero is not quite as secure as Zcash's ZKP. There's a difference between statistical mix secure and cryptographically secure. And admittedly, they can be complementary.

However you are right...
Privacy Coins are necessary to win the war against Fiat.
Everything else will just end up censored, surveilled, centralised... right back to being Fiat.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

PQC algorithms are readily available, and don't take up that much more space.

More importantly, it is NOT necessary to store entire blockchains forever!!!
The only thing needed is confirmation of, and reference to, the UTXO set.
There are a few ways to do that.
Seek them out.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[cshark]

Failing? According to who? Relative to Bitcoin, the dollar is incredibly stable. It's never lost 30% of its value in a week.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[bangular]

You are completely correct. I can't get in the head of Satoshi Nakamoto, but it seems like he envisioned bitcoin as a currency and many modern bitcoin owners see it as an investment. Bitcoin network changes are slow and there just doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in scaling to millions of transactions per second.

OTOH, there are several cryptocurrencies that aim to be less volatile and some can scale to a million transactions per second (or at least claim to). Who knows which will succeed, but that seems way more interesting to me. I'd rather invest in those companies the same way one might have invested in Red Hat for open source software.

Ethereum is interesting to me because distributed apps are possible. The current implementation is incredibly wasteful. However, the Ethereum community seems way more interested in scaling than the bitcoin community.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Antique Geekmeister]

Oh, my. Please excuse my cynicism, but I saw precisely what we heard as the dotcom bubble topped out.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Putting tribalism aside, is Borrow and Spend really a more fiscally reaponsible tactic than Tax and Spend?

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is? For the last year, it's been amazingly stable against the EUR, GBP, CHF, JPY, and HKD. It's appreciated against the RMB. I guess that's failing?

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

Actually, no. They're developing at a steady pace as they have done over the last decade and qubit count is a linear trend not unlike Moore's law. 2023 is the outset of when they will be powerful enough given the decade-long trend before cryptocoins are worthless.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

Post-quantum algorithms have been reviewed for awhile now by cryptographic experts due to the impending post-quantum era. This isn't some long-away thing, taking the trend of the last decade qubit counts have risen in a linear manner, 2023 is the furthest date at which the trend could continue before pre-quantum cryptographic algorithms are crackable in trivial timeframes.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

You could theoretically daisy chain transactions together, but you'd kill the value provided by a blockchain in the process.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Joce640k]

Before SOME pre-quantum cryptographic algorithms are crackable in trivial timeframes.

FTFY.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

Nope, it's not a "some" thing, if it's not a post-quantum algorithm it's crackable by 2023 (at the latest.)

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[novakyu]

Yes. Because it's the "spend" part that necessitate the tax (explicit and implicit). As long as you do the "spend" part, how you exactly fund it is irrelevant.

P.S. I guess to be pedantically correct, "Borrow and Spend" is more or equally fiscally responsible (or irresponsible) than "Tax and Spend".

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no better crypto currencies. Many have bells and whistles and pretend to offer privacy (at which most fails) - but as sound money Bitcoin is the only serious one we have now.

Also, now it is not that "people leave Bitcoin", it is that people sell out in entire cryptocurrencies space.

Anyway you said "leave" which means adoption - while the thing that we know is that price falls, which can be mainly result of financial wrestling between big investors, and in fact is almost certainly connected to the in-fighting between people creating Bitcoin failed spinoffs, which started 3 days ago after months of preparations.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anduril1986]

I'm just going to leave this here:
The case against quantum computing

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

> There's no way to make the post-quantum cutover without centralization due to storage requirements

Bitcoin actually is partially quantum resistant, if you follow the practice of never reusing address, then attacker has only around 10-30 minutes, maximally 1-2 hours to break your privkey after seeing the pubkey.

Perhaps it can be extended one day to make it impossible to attack, by first publishing (and getting accepted) hash of destination address, then publishing pubkey (along with preimage of the destination address) and not allowing transaction to any other address then the one commited-to first.

Some post-quantum signatures are heavy, but some lighter ones are being developed too.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Joce640k]

I think you'll find it's mostly the algorithms related to number factoring that will fall.

AES256? Not so much.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[jythie]

I love how the most prosperous and free time in human history is a 'mess', and somehow returning to failed historical norms is prefered.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[jythie]

That is one of the major weaknesses of creating a deflationary system, the currency becomes an investment since there is an incentive to NOT use it since its value is intended to always be going up.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dollar is constantly going down.

Bitcoin has ups and downs, but gone $ 0.01 $ 1 $ 30 $1200 $19000 ...

Bitcoin is now in price discovery sate until it is in mainstream it will go up because the supply is getting smaller and smaller, is tiny now.

Bitcoin is most fair money - only one where entire supply is known from start to end. Gold is quite close, it's supply can not be changed at will of any government (but it is now fully known in advance, how much gold will be mined each year).

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the entire platform of the right in a nutshell.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

That author is ignorant as shit. It was written in 2018 and seems to make the claim that quantum computers don't already exist. Hell, this year they actually began to outpace traditional computers in some specific algorithms. The only limiting factor at this point is qubit count, and that's rising steadily at the same rate it has the last ~10 years.

Re:More seriously - there are better currencies.

[NicknameUnavailable]

AES is safe, but that's not what cryptocurrencies rely upon. The issue is the signatures, not the symmetric algorithms (those are almost universally post-quantum.) It's the asymmetric algorithms we use today (RSA, in the case of Bitcoin ECDSA, and a couple of others) which are the issue. The asymmetric post-quantum algorithms (SPHINCS+ and other hash-based variants, the lattice stuff has some slightly better potential but it's currently unknown if it's even safe against pre-quantum computers or if it's just really obtuse to work with) have the issue of really big signature sizes (SPHINCS+ is currently the best one known to be post-quantum, and it has signatures of about 31KB each on top of a relatively trivial ~2KB public key.) 31KB per signature is no laughing matter, that translates to per-transaction-on-blockchain (you can't aggregate that piece simply because it's the only thing which actually says "this person authorizes sending this.") As of this writing there are 550846 Bitcoin blocks with an average of 650.3498 transactions-per-block, that equates to 358,242,586 transactions or ~11.1TB of signatures (not including public keys or actual transaction data.) This might not seem like a lot, it's absolutely manageable if you have a server and eventually a datacenter as it grows, but then you get into centralization and it defeats the only selling point of cryptocurrencies: decentralization.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[cshark]

How is it fair for your money to lose 30% or more of it's value every few years? It happened with Gox, it just happened again. There is no parallel in history with the dollar. That would be like the US losing 30% of it's GDP inasmuch as a couple of days. It's never happened. Generally, if the US loses 2% of GDP, it takes years to recover. We just got out of a decade long recession from losing 1.5% of GDP on growth figures. If you were living on bitcoin right now, you would be dead. I'm not dissuading your from the idea that bitcoin is awesome, or that bitcoin is the revolutionary future and whatnot, but any sober observer would look at this and have to comment on the volatility problem that bitcoin has, and the one it's always had. Even the community is talking about it again.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[s4080326]

Yes. Because it's the "spend" part that necessitate the tax (explicit and implicit). As long as you do the "spend" part, how you exactly fund it is irrelevant.

P.S. I guess to be pedantically correct, "Borrow and Spend" is more or equally fiscally responsible (or irresponsible) than "Tax and Spend".

"Borrow and Spend" Creates inflation which is essentially tax on wealth, if done within a stable range it will encourage investment as cash not invested will decrease in value over time.

Re: More seriously - there are better currencies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? Democrats are different?

Intrinsic value

[Anonymous Coward]

Knife - Can be used for dozens or hundreds of useful situations especially in survival scenarios.

Apple - Can be eaten as a nutritious snack.

Gun & Ammo - Can be used to kill enemies or food to feed oneself.

Wagon - Can be used to haul cargo and various goods around in.

Rope - Can be used for all sorts of useful purposes.

Bitcoin - A useless waste of energy and disk space that relies entirely on the greater fool syndrome with no official backing.

Re:Intrinsic value

[bkmoore]

Knife, Apple, Gun & Ammo, Wagon, Rope, Bitcoin...

I accuse Col. Mustard who used a poison apple in the wagon AND he was paid in BitCoin.

You think this is something?

[Draconi]

Wait until the bottom falls out of Tether.

Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[xack]

From buying drugs and child abuse to wrecking the planet. Satoshi disappeared because he knew he would be sentenced for crimes against humanity eventually. I’d say cryptocurrencies and Wikipedia are two worst inventions this century. The price coming down will not be enough because even hyperinflation curencies get novelty value among collectors.

Re:Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess you're not a fan of cash either. More drugs and bad things are bought with cash than all crypto-currencies combined.

Re:Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[Anonymous Coward]

lol crimes against humanity. hes not fucking hitler. he made a decentrilized book keeping system. That is all. Yes its been used for illegal things but it was also used for good purposes. The issue is thought he speculative craze killed off the ability to use it for normal day to day transactions.

Re:Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[CoolCash]

What about the USD? Its been used for all of that an more. It ruins lives every day.

Re:Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the thousand and thousands of suckers that lost their savings by pouring it in to some exchange that promptly went exit scam.

There are only two kinds of exchanges. Ones that have been found out to be scams, and and the ones that have not been found out to be scams yet.

Re:Cryptocurreny has ruined too many lives

[HornWumpus]

Suckers were lucky to get together with their money in the first place. Fuck em.

Shit Coin Circling The Drain

[Anonymous Coward]

The bitcoin blockchain shenanigans are over.

The only ones that will be left are bag holders and sweaty nerds wondering how they could have been so stupid, considering their "superior intellect".

Shit coin is done.

BUY, Mortimer, BUY!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a bargain price. The only way is UP, UP UP!!!!

Re: BUY, Mortimer, BUY!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin? Is that you? Go up bitcoin darn it!

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS you IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to any "ne'er-do-well" on /. OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU EVEN HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

APK

P.S.=> LMAO - I KNOW that 3rd/2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME getting me to see if hosts stop more than portsmash (& Meltdown + Spectre too) & "lo & behold" - hosts WORK on 'em - U LOSE (& U STOPPED TRYING IT in your impersonations of me) .... apk

Re: IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

What does your post have to do with the price of Bitcoin? Explain how this is somehow on-topic. Why shouldn't I ask my friend who works at /. use one of his unlimited mod points to put your post at -1? Do tell.

Re: IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

APK is incredibly butthurt, as he proves repeatedly when he complains about bullying. He contributes nothing to Slashdot or to humanity in general. His software is total shit and he knows it, yet he insists on spamming about it all over the place. He vastly overstates its capabilities, even though it's been reverse engineered and found to be a complete joke. He has the emotional stability of a toddler and is completely unable to avoid making an ass of himself after even the tiniest of provocations. What a completely worthless piece of garbage he is.

He also doesn't understand how to protect his keys, which is why he continues to come across as a total retard when it's pointed out to him that he should digitally sign his software. Instead, he continues to argue that his self-verification technique is better, despite that it's not intended for security purposes and is easy to defeat.

APK should just stop posting because he makes an ass of himself every time he posts any comment.

NIG

P.S.=> Don't mess with your betters. You proved you don't know how speculative execution works. Nobody should trust you to secure anything, you retard... nig

Re: IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, I thought your "CyberianTiger" program was supposed to repost your comments when they're moderated to -1. That obviously hasn't happened. It appears that it's as worthless as your hosts file program, which has proved to be a complete joke upon reverse engineering it. You fail once again.

NIG

P.S.=> Give up. You're embarrassing yourself again... nig

Re: IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you reckon he's a


X tot X `KIF . PARSE on PARSE . FIRMEST `ALUMNI on PARSE .
AH on X . X . X tot X `X tot X `X us are X tot X `X tot X `
X X . X . X . X us are X us are X us are X tot X us are X `
X `X `X . X . X `FREQ `X `FREQ `PARSE on ALUMNI ; `^ KIF .
X . X X . X . X tot X `X tot X `X us are X . X ; `^ `X tot
X on AH . X . X tot X `X tot X `X us are X on X us are tot
X tot X `KIF . PARSE on PARSE . FIRMEST `X tot X tot X tot

SELL, Mortimer, SELL!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's tanking!!! The only DOWN, DOWN, DOWN from here!

Legal Marijuana

[rsilvergun]

is probably the biggest factor. That plus the Chinese cracking down on money laundering and new ASICs making mining easier. But mostly legalized drugs are going to be the end of Bitcoin and the like. They set a floor for the currency in terms of actual product that can be bought. Without them there's not a lot you can actually buy with bitcoin, and the transaction fees are generally too high you wouldn't just use cash or CC.

Magic Beans

[martinX]

Magic beans no longer worth a cow.

Re:Magic Beans

[Anonymous Coward]

Magic beans no longer worth a cow.

Nonsense, these magic beans have intrinsic value. They have intrinsic value because they're magic beans.

Blame those impersonating me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent post's an imposter, not I. I only post on hosts IF they stop threats OR speed you up. I don't off topic.

& I won't "lay down" to losers that don't do a DAMN THING OF VALUE attacking me 1st. I defend myself w/ facts they can't beat.

I've got a "psycho fanclub" IMPERSONATING me & spamming + lying about MY work STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like whackos!

GOOFS like c6gunner CAUGHT IMPERSONATING ME https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

(His name's on that post link as SUBMITTER signing "APK" as I do while he ALTERED users words of praise of my work (since he tried INSULTING me & I issued a FAIR CHALLENGE to him that HE SHOW HE CAN DO BETTER - he hasn't to date)).

gweihir PROVED you IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... too!

ZIP = a BLOWHARD LIAR vs. https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> I'm not here to lose (it's for LOSERS like ZIP &/or c6gunner - not I): I'm here to WIN & all do that use hosts files ... apk

Re: Blame those impersonating me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

So do they control so much of your life that you're forced to post? Are you so emotionally unstable that you cannot even ignore a single insult? No wonder you have no family and that nobody can stand to be around you. You also don't have a clue about technology, as shown when you said you blocked all ad servers and that hosts do port filtering. You then lied by denying you posted those comments, but provided zero credible evidence to support your allegations of impersonation.

NIG

P.S.=> Grow up. You have the emotional stability of a toddler... nig

"Best"!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is a currency that's created by wasting energy at all valuable? If it stored energy, or stored some valuable work output, then you'd have a point. However, bitcoin is inherently turning coal into hashes that can't be used for anything else. It's the best of Ponzi schemes.

Re:"Best"!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

> How is a currency that's created by wasting energy at all valuable?

  Because that is only way to assure it is decentralised - as a currency.

IOUs are interesting, but they inherently will have a risk in them of other side bailing on the obligation, there is a reason gold is the reserve currency of world, not oil-contracts even though they are valuable.

Re: "Best"!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol, the only way? Really? Before bitcoin, I'm sure people were saying govt backed is the only way. Until it wasn't.

Proof of useful work would be a start. Some don't think that would work, but same was said of bitcoin itself.. it's a case of can't know until you try.

Huh...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess imaginary stalkers also engage in money laundering.

NB

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

Here's a nice read about BitcoinSV and Mr. Craig Wright who desperately wants to be Satoshi Nakamoto but keeps blundering while doing so.

Crypto currencies tend to be stable for periods

[Anonymous Coward]

People who think crypto currencies have no intrinsic value are retarded. If they didn't there wouldn't be any value in dollars, wire transfer services, banks, and similar for which everyone currently pays for. That's largely what matters. As a crypto currency user and business owner it matters little what the price is and whether or not the world is trading it because the reality is right now there are only three places it's useful: the internet, New Hampshire, and Venezuela. Trading doesn't give a crypto currency value. Usage gives a crypto currency value. Once it settles down again it's usefulness as a currency goes back up and I'll continue to benefit from that no matter what price it ends up at. It doesn't really matter if it's $0.10 cents or $100,000. At either price point I can utilize it to transfer value in exchange for goods without paying an intermediary like a bank a fee for the privilege. 3% of every online credit card purchase is going to Visa, Master Card, American, Express, PayPal, or Discover. The same applies to brick and mortar retail stores where such payment methods are used and some other unknown (to me) cost can also be attributable to cash purchases as well (cash is subsidized by taxes).

Re:Crypto currencies tend to be stable for periods

[Pinky's Brain]

It relies on market cap for security of transfer, so if it drops enough it becomes useless.

Not sure who is ripping off whom :)

[MerlinTheWizard]

This constant stream of insipid blabber about Bitcoin and how it's going to crash soon, that has been going on for years through self-proclaimed experts, is certainly doing much more in terms of money and exposure for those fuckers than they'd get actually investing in cryptocurrencies or in anything else for that matter. I'm inviting anyone to take a look at just how many Youtube channels, just as an example, deal with Bitcoin analysis an predict its crashing, and how many views they get. :)

Satoshi Nakamoto = NSA?

[Misagon]

I have wondered now and then, if not Bitcoin isn't actually a secret distributed Chinese Lottery.

With all these machines out there dedicated to brute-forcing SHA-256 collissions â" which is also the world's most used cryptographic hash algorithm, whenever NSA (or whichever agency created Bitcoin) wants a SHA-256 hash collision it just injects some requests to a bunch of bitcoin nodes, exploiting some vulnerability in the code and protocol.
And then the suckers will do the work for them.

It has been done before with Javascript in web pages, the same as "other" crypto-mining in Javascript on shadier sites more recently.
But this time the users would be none the wiser because the nodes are just doing whatever they were supposed to in the first place.

Re:Satoshi Nakamoto = NSA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry... most data that is hashed is certainly not cryptocurrency transaction block data, nor do their hash outputs have leading zero difficulty fudges. No win there.

And if you adopt cryptocurrency, all the murder, war, and theft games that the NSA supports, quite simply go away because governments around the world can no longer immorally taxation is theft the resources for that away from you.

Re:Satoshi Nakamoto = NSA?

[yarbo]

Bitcoin uses SHA-256(SHA-256(nonce+data)) < target value. They don't actually look for collisions.

Re:Satoshi Nakamoto = NSA?

[swillden]

Bitcoin uses SHA-256(SHA-256(nonce+data)) < target value. They don't actually look for collisions.

And if they did look for collisions, at the peak hash rate thus far achieved (about 2^69 hashes per second) it would still take about 2^161 years to reach a 50% probability of finding one. This would make BTC transactions a bit slower than they are now.

Re:Satoshi Nakamoto = NSA?

[AmiMoJo]

Seems like an immensely risky scheme for a problem they could solve with a few billion dollars. In fact it would be odd if they hadn't spent a few billion on supercomputers that are able to brute force hashes and do massive dictionary attacks against AES etc.

Aside from anything else they couldn't really use it to brute force anything really interesting, because the public nature of the system would mean that other intelligence agencies would immediately know what they were doing. Plus the way Bitcoin works the amount of computing power this would generate is so small and so slow to muster it would be impractical.

With a bit of luck

[Hognoxious]

Let's hope Rei just bought a load.

Editors, DO YOUR JOB

[turbotalon]

FTFA: "At its peak, in November 2017, it (Bitcoin Cash) briefly hit $19,783 - which means the price has fallen by about 75%." The author of the story is inconsistently referring to BTC and BCH. BCH has NEVER gotten anywhere close to $19k, BTC has. There are other places in the short summary where I had to stop and think if the author was referring to BTC or BCH. EDITORS TAKE NOTE: YOUR JOB IS TO FIX THIS SHIT.

Re:Editors, DO YOUR JOB

[Luthair]

No one cares about the cryptocurrency circle-jerk. Back into the closet.

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS u IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to "ne'er-do-wells" on /. (TROLL /.ers, not all) OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

APK

P.S.=> I KNOW that 2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME getting me to see if hosts stop more than portsmash (& Meltdown + Spectre too) & "lo & behold" - hosts WORK on 'em - U LOSE (& U STOPPED TRYING IT in your impersonations of me) .... apk

Blame those impersonating me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

The grandparent post? I didn't post it (impersonators of me did) & I only post on hosts IF they stop threats OR speed you up. I don't off topic.

I won't "lay down" to losers that don't do a DAMN THING OF VALUE attacking me 1st. I defend myself w/ facts they can't beat.

I've got a "psycho fanclub" IMPERSONATING me & spamming + lying about MY work STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like whackos!

GOOFS like c6gunner CAUGHT IMPERSONATING ME https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

(His name's on the post as SUBMITTER signing "APK" as I do while he ALTERED users words of praise of my work (since he tried INSULTING me & I issued a FAIR CHALLENGE to him that HE SHOW HE CAN DO BETTER - he hasn't to date)).

gweihir PROVED you IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... too!

ZIP = a BLOWHARD LIAR vs. https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> I'm not here to lose (it's for LOSERS like ZIP &/or c6gunner - not I): I'm here to WIN & all do that use hosts files ... apk

"below $87 billion"

[iMadeGhostzilla]

I don't disagree, just curious where the estimate of the value of electricity spent to mine the current bitcoin so far is, so it can be compared to the $87B.

LMAO - look @ U, hypocrite:Dance boy! apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject (lmao as I sip a beer & "cyberian tiger"'s @ work nullifying your downmods running you DRY of them, lol https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... - see, I can do stuff to "F-U-up" no effort (some up front, about a week's work to LMAO @ "your kind" everyday).

Again - "IMITATION is TRULY the SINCEREST form of flattery" & you already PROVED you wish you were me IMITATING my style posting as I do since I told you you're a WORM that won't stand behind YOUR WORDS stalking ME by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts) https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

Man - face it - YOU JUST PLAYED YOURSELF here & in that link too!

* Get 1 thing thru your DIM brain & THICK SKULL (from the film "White Men Can't Jump"):

"Don't worry Sidney - I've HUSTLED a HELL of a LOT BETTER players than YOU before" - Woody Harrelson to Wes Snipes

Don't be like THIS "Paper Tiger" that PLAYED HIMSELF vs. me (classic) because he does the SAME just WISHING he was ME (does what you do, which is what I do, the ORIGINAL, lol) https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

APK

P.S.=> Take your OWN advice & @ least BE ORIGINAL too... apk

Re:Editors, DO YOUR JOB - he's right, you know

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to admit you're right. I've been wasting my hard earned cash on a Slashdot subscription to read shitty articles that might as well have been hammered out by a team of monkeys on typewriters. I'm taking my $9.95/mo elsewhere.

Goodbye, Slashdot. So long and thanks for all the fish!

Re:Editors, DO YOUR JOB - he's right, you know

[Anonymous Coward]

I would advise using the extra cash to pay for a shrink to find out why you subscribed in the first place :P

Buy low sell high

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy right now motherfuckers!

LMAO - look @ U, hypocrite:Dance boy! apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject (lmao as I sip a beer & "cyberian tiger"'s @ work nullifying your downmods running you DRY of them, lol https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... - see, I can do stuff to "F-U-up" no effort (some up front, about a week's work to LMAO @ "your kind" everyday).

Again - "IMITATION is TRULY the SINCEREST form of flattery" & you already PROVED you wish you were me IMITATING my style posting as I do since I told you you're a WORM that won't stand behind YOUR WORDS stalking ME by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts) https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

Man - face it - YOU JUST PLAYED YOURSELF here & in that link too!

* Get 1 thing thru your DIM brain & THICK SKULL (from the film "White Men Can't Jump"):

"Don't worry Sidney - I've HUSTLED a HELL of a LOT BETTER players than YOU before" - Woody Harrelson to Wes Snipes

Don't be like THIS "Paper Tiger" that PLAYED HIMSELF vs. me (classic) because he does the SAME just WISHING he was ME (does what you do, which is what I do, the ORIGINAL, lol) https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

APK

P.S.=> Take your OWN advice & @ least BE ORIGINAL too... apk

Blame those impersonating me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

The root 1st post? I didn't post it (impersonators of me did) & I only post on hosts IF they stop threats OR speed you up. I don't off topic.

I won't "lay down" to losers that don't do a DAMN THING OF VALUE attacking me 1st. I defend myself w/ facts they can't beat.

I've got a "psycho fanclub" IMPERSONATING me & spamming + lying about MY work STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like whackos!

GOOFS like c6gunner CAUGHT IMPERSONATING ME https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

(His name's on the post as SUBMITTER signing "APK" as I do while he ALTERED users words of praise of my work (since he tried INSULTING me & I issued a FAIR CHALLENGE to him that HE SHOW HE CAN DO BETTER - he hasn't to date)).

gweihir PROVED you IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... too!

ZIP = a BLOWHARD LIAR vs. https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> I'm not here to lose (it's for LOSERS like ZIP &/or c6gunner - not I): I'm here to WIN & all do that use hosts files ... apk

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS u IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to "ne'er-do-wells" on /. (TROLL /.ers, not all) OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

APK

P.S.=> I KNOW that 2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME getting me to see if hosts stop more than portsmash (& Meltdown + Spectre too) & "lo & behold" - hosts WORK on 'em - U LOSE (& U STOPPED TRYING IT in your impersonations of me) .... apk

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS u IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to "ne'er-do-wells" on /. (TROLL /.ers, not all) OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

"Don't worry Sidney - I've HUSTLED a HELL of a LOT BETTER players than YOU before" - Woody Harrelson to Wes Snipes "White Men Can't Jump"

APK

P.S.=> I KNOW that 2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME .... apk

BTC is really forked now

[Applehu Akbar]

The speculative value of BTC was based in its limited supply. Forking the coin doubles the mineable money supply, so the speculative value has to drop by half to adjust for this, besides kicking off a whole new race to waste energy mining the new coin.

Then we have people touting this or that better new coin. "Investing" in each of these jumps the money supply for each one, further reducing the scarcity value.

Re:Editors, DO YOUR JOB - he's right, you know

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL not sure if I could find a shrink for any amount who could help me with my issues.

Anyway, it was a joke if you couldn't tell. I've read /. for - and I think I can say this honestly - decades. I have a UID in the 100k's but post as AC now because I'm lazy. I remember coming here immediately on 9/11/01. Even worse, I remember Geeks In Space. I even remember Signal 11 and his various impersonators. And probably someone with a two digit UID will respond with a "back in my day". Oh well.

Slashdot's editors have always sucked; at editing, spelling, and Perl. Sure they get paid now, but...it's just Slashdot. The only reason it's worth coming back to is for the comments section. If they actually "did their job", there wouldn't be anything to read here. (So wait, there's something to read here???)

Also, it's free, and you get what you pay for. So post a correction or clarification, relax, and enjoy the rest, but don't take it too seriously. It's just Slashdot.

Peace!

Re:There's no intrinsic value in any Fiat

[melted]

But there is value in a fiat currency. Currency is much like shares in a company, except the company is the country that issues the currency. Now granted, the country can issue more currency, and your share can get smaller, but fiat currencies very much do have intrinsic value. Unless you think the US economy is worth nothing, of course, which is pretty self-evident that it's not the case.

Bitcoin (and other "cash" cryptocurrencies not tied to an asset or a fiat currency), on the other hand, is a share in literally nothing. ICOs are de-facto shares in the respective companies, but the market is so poorly regulated you'd have to be a total idiot to invest in one.

Bitcoin will soon rebound to 25,000

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignore what is happening in the charts. Bitcoin will soon be worth $25,000 a coin. I am betting on it and you should too. If we all bet this way it makes it happen. The maths is simple.

The "dull and stable" was actually interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin effectively had a fixed ratio to the dollar for months. We'll never know why, because it's not a very transparent market. It could just be coincidence, but I was wondering if there was a "Bitcoin pool" that was supporting the price the way the old London Gold Pool used to do. It could also have been a cartel of large holders who agreed not to sell below a certain price. This would be the kind of thing you'd do if you had gotten in *years* ago, and wanted to get out without disturbing the market too much. As long as the natural market price is above the cartel's agreed selling price, they could dump coin in the market and cash out. At some point they're either done cashing out, or the natural market price falls below their agreed selling price and the cartel falls apart.

Of course the existence of such a cartel is purely speculative on my part.

There's a sucker born every minute

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's the only reason for the slowness in the decline.

This is what happens ...

[johnlcallaway]

... when pyramid schemes reach their saturation point.

Congratulations to all that made money.

To those that lost ... suckers! Go try Amway, at least they sell something material instead of pipe dreams.

APKoin keep rising

[Anonymous Coward]

See Subject: APKoin is better than all other cyypto coin guarantee to not loose value

Get APKoin by spreading the word of "LORD of HOSTS" to all conrners of teh internet

Get APKoin by "Kick stomping heart" FAKE name slashdot l[users] who dare defy brilliant APK

Redeemable for ultra premium moose dik you can suck or take in ass

Premium rewards like suk my MEGA MAN PENIS or lick my gaint ballz

APK

P.S.=> The Soros and ROTHSCHILD backed jew bankers want to destroy CRYPTO COIN because it can derail their plans to enslave great american worker. Trump was the first major disruption to they plans APKoins is the next... apk

Blame those impersonating me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent to post you replied to's an impersonator. I only post on hosts IF they stop threats OR speed you up. I don't off topic.

HOWEVER: I won't "lay down" to losers that don't do a DAMN THING OF VALUE attacking me 1st. I defend myself w/ facts they can't beat.

I've got a "psycho fanclub" IMPERSONATING me & spamming + lying about MY work STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like whackos!

GOOFS like c6gunner CAUGHT IMPERSONATING ME https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

(His name's on the post as SUBMITTER signing "APK" as I do while he ALTERED users words of praise of my work (since he tried INSULTING me & I issued a FAIR CHALLENGE to him that HE SHOW HE CAN DO BETTER - he hasn't to date)).

gweihir PROVED you IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... too!

ZIP = a BLOWHARD LIAR vs. https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> I'm not here to lose (it's for LOSERS like ZIP &/or c6gunner - not I): I'm here to WIN & all do that use hosts files ... apk

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS u IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to "ne'er-do-wells" on /. (TROLL /.ers, not all) OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

APK

P.S.=> I KNOW that 2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME getting me to see if hosts stop more than portsmash (& Meltdown + Spectre too) & "lo & behold" - hosts WORK on 'em - U LOSE (& U STOPPED TRYING IT in your impersonations of me) .... apk

We don't need a play-by-play

[mysidia]

Geez, so what... it fell below $5000? There's nothing special about that... its not notable news --- Slashdot already covered that price was decreasing significantly 6 days ago, And didn't even bring up more important news within the Crypto ecosystem such as the BCH Chain forks and how those are doing; this is basically a duplicate headline within 10 days with 6000 changed to 5000.. A link to the exchange prices is good enough.

Are we going to get a big writeup again when it falls below $4000 within the week, and possibly below $3000 in 2 weeks, then $2000 ?

Again.... not interesting stuff for an article, when there are so many other things happening with the technology other than boring fiat exchange prices

Re:We don't need a play-by-play

[Anonymous Coward]

and yet it still gets more replies than most articles. Ok so many are just operatives and angries trying to put the bitcoin genie back in the bottle but im sure sashdolt metrics and marketing already have a new one lined up for next price barrier which will in turn trigger exactly the same threads.

IMPERSONATING ME AGAIN? apk

[Anonymous Coward]

gweihir KNOWS u IMPERSONATE me https://it.slashdot.org/commen... c6gunner proves it https://linux.slashdot.org/com... forgetting to SUBMIT BY AC & f'd up using his registered 'lusrname' instead (just because he tried to mock me both BEFORE & after I FAIRLY challenged him to show he's done better work - he had ZERO).

& NO WAY I'd "cry" like you to "ne'er-do-wells" on /. (TROLL /.ers, not all) OR post on hosts offtopic.

YOU HELPED ME https://science.slashdot.org/c... (& you quit trying to make me look bad trying to "tell lies" on hosts as "ME" IN YOUR IMPERSONATIONS of me e.g. https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & regarding Intel speculative execution attack? Hosts DO PREVENT THEM)

APK

P.S.=> I KNOW that 2nd to last link above's KILLING YOU that YOU ACTUALLY HELPED ME getting me to see if hosts stop more than portsmash (& Meltdown + Spectre too) & "lo & behold" - hosts WORK on 'em - U LOSE (& U STOPPED TRYING IT in your impersonations of me) .... apk

Transaction fees are holding

[reanjr]

What's most interesting here is that while the number of transactions during this crash has risen to levels not seen since January, the transaction fees never went above $0.65. That's strong evidence that improvements like Lightning and SegWit have largely addressed the scaling concerns everyone had around the BTC/BCH split.

WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you've never taken a single macro-economics course, much less a graduate level one.

The dollar (a state-supported fiat currency) -- is stable in part because the entire global economy depends upon it remaining stable, but more to the point, it's stable because it has most of the planet's economy supporting it. The larger the economy, the more flexible it is to changes in any one market, so with the global economy, the dollar stays relatively stable with only the Euro really making a dent in its dominance and the Ruble, Yen, and Yuan distant thirds.

The feds control the money supply, and the feds are influenced by the rich, which hold dollars -- so they will take quick action to manipulate the economy to ensure they hold its value.

The only real fear is that other countries which use the US dollar to purchase oil will switch to a different currency, thus flooding the global money market with unwanted dollars and plunging its value leading to a US if not global recession.

Still, crypto which has no government support (yet) and no real way to use in banking other than quick transactions (you really need the ability to make money out of thin air like banks do with loans for it to be useful to them), it's doomed to fail.

Crypto hype was sold as the next tulip bulbs or beany babies. Everyone knew what it was, tried to get on board and get their profits before they were left holding the useless strings of ones and zeroes. At least gold or silver give you something you can trade without using a computer network & can be made into silverware or electronics.

I'm not saying crypto will never work, but it certainly won't free you from government and bank rule. In fact, it will never work without those two things. There are reasons they exist & without them, you're really only creating a currency for a black market which would do better to abuse the real estate market or art auction houses for money laundering.