Slashdot Mirror


We're No Longer in Smartphone Plateau. We're in the Smartphone Decline. (nymag.com)

The days of double-digit smartphone growth are over -- and the next decade may start to see smartphone sales decline. A report adds: From roughly 2007 until 2013, the smartphone market grew at an astonishing pace, posting double-digit growth year after year, even during a global recession. They were the good years, the type that would inspire a Scorsese montage: millions and then billions of smartphones going out; billions and then trillions of dollars in rising company valuations; every year new models of phones hitting the market, held up triumphantly at events that were part sales pitch, part tent revival. (To nail the Scorsese effect, imagine "Jumpin' Jack Flash" playing while you think about it.)

But just like every Scorsese movie, the party ends. Smartphone growth began to slow starting in 2013 or 2014. In 2016, it was suddenly in the single digits, and in 2017 global smartphone shipments, for the first time, actually declined -- fewer smartphones were sold than in 2017 than in 2016. Every smartphone manufacturer is now facing a world where, at best, they can hope for single-digit growth in smartphone sales -- and many seem to be preparing for a world where they face declines.

205 comments

  1. Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That will fix it.

    1. Re:Need more apps by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nope. What we need is more peop^Wcustomers.

      If we can manage to double the population over the next five years then the smartphone manufacturers should see a return to previous growth figures.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody here really gets it. Don't want a $1k phone? What happens when your carrier says you're going to get one or you're going to be dropped? It's only $10 extra on your never-ending plan and they'll throw in a couple more gigs of storage for all your really cool apps and movies you watch on that 6 inch screen.

      Behind the scenes the phone manufacturers have a gun to the heads of the providers telling *them* what they are going to do. The telecoms will cave because none of them want to tell their customers Apple won't give them any phones.

      This is not Scorsese, it's Ming The Merciless, because anyone with half a brain, the moment they held their first tiny smartphone in Tahiti and took a call from mom in Iowa should have known this was coming. lol. Greed augers another great thing into the ground.

    3. Re:Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5G will encourage everyone to buy a new phone again. Don't panic.

    4. Re:Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't want a $1k phone? What happens when your carrier says you're going to get one or you're going to be dropped?

      It's really hard to imagine anything like that happening, but I suppose if my wireless ISP didn't want my money, I could find someone else with a more revenue-oriented business.

      And if all the wireless ISPs decided to stop doing business (this is really inconceivable) then I'd get by without them. There's plenty of wifi around, and even where there isn't: I survived many decades without any Internet access on the sidewalks or in the car. Going back wouldn't be hard.

      Wireless ISPs are customers' bitch. There are many. It's the wired ones where we have the more serious monopolies.

    5. Re:Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to accumulate into smaller, more densely populated areas so that the corporations get maximum profits over a center of investment. People should be moving closer together so that they could use their new, faster phones more and speak face to face less.

    6. Re:Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aliens looking at Earth, from a great distance...

      One: but what are they FOR?
      Two: the best our scientists can come up with indicates their purpose is mainly to do with various-sized glowing rectangles. Staring at them, touching them, wiping them, weeping over them when they’re broken... buying more and more of them, comparing them to others’ glowing rectangles, to see which is bigger, brighter, more colorful, etc. They even sometimes kiss them, sleep with them, and of course making more of them.

      One: What a weird species.

    7. Re: Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People can't watch more than one cat video at a time, and 4k is wasted on a phone

    8. Re: Need more apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the major phone manufacturers were really collectively holding a gun to the likes of AT&T then a RICO investigation would be warranted

  2. Wafer by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obviously smartphones aren't being made thin enough. They need to make them as fragile as a wafer, then they can sell more.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Wafer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, a phone that lasts over a year is way overbuilt. They'll have to make them biodegradable. Make the tree "huggers" happy

    2. Re:Wafer by torkus · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, and let's get the glass to the very edge...no wait! Let's make the WHOLE case out of glass. And special glass that's over 9000% more transmissive of visible light...never mind equally more brittle.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    3. Re:Wafer by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      You mean like the ones they carry on "The Expanse"?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    4. Re:Wafer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Colored aero-gel smartphones with golden 3D interconnects. Gentle enough to capture particles from the tails of comets.

    5. Re:Wafer by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Yes, I like it! Just started watching that.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re:Wafer by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      You mean like the ones they carry on "The Expanse"?

      No. The battery life on those is way too long.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    7. Re:Wafer by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      And bigger screens.

  3. Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone I know "wants" a new phone, but they don't want to pay a grand.

    1. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The last phone I bought I paid $200 for about a year ago, and it's a great phone. Why would you pay $1000? Unless you're addicted to high priced Apple products.

    2. Re:Prices too damn high by torkus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Price creep the last few years has been out of hand while the actual feature changes have slowed to a crawl or even gone backwards (looking for you headphones jack). Especially with "certain" greedy manufacturers who were recently charging $100 for 16 or 32GB of flash. Even now, $150 to go from 64 to 256 is a ripoff.

      People simply don't need the new phones because there's nothing to differentiate them. It's not even sexy or shiny when you can't tell the difference...especially when you're force to stuff them in a case that doubles the size.

      I'm still waiting for someone to take the chance on a thicker phone with a real battery. Apple did actually go a bit thicker on some of their latest phones but i don't think they actually added significant battery capacity.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    3. Re:Prices too damn high by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everyone I know "wants" a new phone, but they don't want to pay a grand.

      You have it backwards. People DON'T want new phones. Their existing phones are "good enough", so they are waiting longer and longer between upgrades.

      Since upgrade cycles are longer, the phone makers can only maintain revenues by pushing up the price of new phones, and adding silly features to justify the higher price. So far this strategy is working, with record revenues even in the face of falling unit sales.

      I have a 4 year old iPhone 6. It works fine. I have no plans to replace it.

    4. Re: Prices too damn high by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      It's a medical fact that buying a new Apple product produces a huge blast of Seratonin for a while.

      With each purchase it lasts less, however, so you need to buy more often.

      (or at least buy a lot of accessories over the next few weeks, eg. airpods, to maintain the high)

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree. I dont need or want a new phone. Mine is working just fine.

    6. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a 4 year old iPhone 6. It works fine. I have no plans to replace it.

      Better not let Apple know; they might push an update that bricks it...lol, but you are clearly waiting for such an event. You are sitting on a ticking time bomb because it may be a matter of moments before some technical theft steals information off your phone, unless you're playing it like Windows XP ...lol

    7. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went from an SE, to an XS Max, and it was worth it for the massive screen size increase, but for someone who's been on a Plus phone for a generation or two, there is really no advantage.

    8. Re:Prices too damn high by edi_guy · · Score: 2

      I'm also in agreement. I'm keeping my 5SE as long as possible. Have already had to 'iFixit" several bits of trim and charger connector. In addition to the ridiculous cost of a new phone, I also cannot stand how big they have become. Doesn't anyone remember Will Farrell and the tiny phones...?

    9. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry bub. You are not the kind of customer apple wants.

    10. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use an Acer liquid zest (cost $69 new) but it's a little slow. Want cutting edge speed, camera and features? Buy a used Samsung s7 or s8 for around $200 on ebay.

    11. Re:Prices too damn high by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Apple did actually go a bit thicker on some of their latest phones

      Get with the times, the thinnest phones came out in 2015. Pretty much every manufacturer has been producing thicker phones for the past 3 generations (not just the latest one, Apple's thinnest phone was the iPhone 6).

    12. Re:Prices too damn high by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I went from an SE, to an XS Max, and it was worth it for the massive screen size increase,

      Unless you are built like your average NBA player, when putting it to your ear you will look like a complete dork. But then again, who uses a smartphone for phone calls?

    13. Re:Prices too damn high by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      The XR has the best battery life of any iPhone, and apparently some of the best battery life of any phone of this current generation. It comes in about even with the Note 9.

      Apple makes approximately the same margins on their phones now as they ever have. Consider that the iPhone 3Gs was released in 2009 for $599. In today's money, that's a bit over $700, so just shy of the $750 that the XR costs.

      Retail prices have crept up—and we can argue over whether Apple's prices should've crept up, given that many of the components must have come down in price over time, though they also always try to have some new stuff in there every year as well—but they haven't actually increased all that much. We tend to forget about inflation, but it affects tech companies too.

      https://www.theinformation.com...

      But maybe the real question here is whether we feel that we're getting the same value for money that we once did. The iPhone 4 felt like the future. The phones of today simply feel like what we've always had. Is the problem the phones or our expectations?

    14. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow, get a load of this fuckin' manlet!

    15. Re:Prices too damn high by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      I'm also in agreement. I'm keeping my 5SE as long as possible. Have already had to 'iFixit" several bits of trim and charger connector. In addition to the ridiculous cost of a new phone, I also cannot stand how big they have become. Doesn't anyone remember Will Farrell and the tiny phones...?

      You're thinking Ben Stiller, Zoolander.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    16. Re: Prices too damn high by Enigma2175 · · Score: 2

      I recently got a new iPhone and unless Seratonin is the "angry neurotransmitter" I didn't get any blasts of it. There are many things that don't work as expected or are an annoyance, like constant "reminders" to set up Apple Wallet but the missing headphone jack is the source of most of the ire. It didn't even come with a headphone adapter so I had to buy one , which doesn't work. There's not a technical reason for it failing, it works fine for 1:45 then stops working with an "Unsupported accessory" message. It's just Apple trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of me, forcing me to buy THEIR overpriced accessories (which should be included with the phone in the first place). In my case it is counterproductive because instead of thousands of dollars in future phone purchases Apple will never get another dollar from me because of the horrible experience. Heck, look at the reviews for the basic headphone adapter from the Apple store, most of the reviews are one star:

      This is my 7th one I’m one. As some one that loves wired headphones because I hate charging them this dongle is the worst !

      I'm on my third lightning adapter since April. They don't last more than 2-3 months and are very cheaply made.

      And these are the reviews from the Apple fanbois. It doesn't seem like they are feeling Seratonin blasts either.

      --

      Enigma

    17. Re:Prices too damn high by RedShoeRider · · Score: 1

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      4:30 into the clip.

      You're both right.

      --

      Chris Knight is my hero.

    18. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. don't buy devices that don't meet your needs
      2. don't buy wildly expensive devices that don't meet your needs, and then go for the cheapest accessory to try to make it meet your needs.

      I'll buy that Apple are assholes for removing the headphone jack to begin with, but you bought a defective or cheap shit adapter and when it predictably doesn't work due to being cheap garbage, that's Apple's fault? Spend the extra $3 to get one that actually god damn works. Seriously. Yes, it sucks you have to do this to begin with, but if you are buying a $1000 phone, why would you go get a cheap garbage headphone adapter when the difference is so little, if wired headphones are such a must-have?

    19. Re:Prices too damn high by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      My wife and I took a look at new phones because her company is going draconian with what they allow to happen on her company-provided phone, and the prices are outrageous.

      I'll stick with my 2+ year old device, and we'll find her something on eBay or whatever if / when her company takes their smartphones back to the stone age of being glorified email devices.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    20. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly Slashdork, prices aren't determined by cost. Price is determined by ability to pay.

    21. Re: Prices too damn high by supremebob · · Score: 1

      I guess that the mind control drugs didn't work on me, because I held onto my last iPhone for 4 years before it finally died. I have the iPhone XR now. Something tells me that it will not last quite as long because it's made of glass.

    22. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Not just outrageously expensive, but headphone jacks are unobtainium.

    23. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should have bought a OnePlus 6T, LOL. Equivalent hardware, includes pre-applied screen protector, case, and analog-to-USB-C dongle, and actually works. Oh, and costs $549.

    24. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird...I still have the same dongle that came with my iPhone X I got a year ago. I have never had a problem with it. But hey, do you know what the best part is? You can always go back to Android if you hate the iPhone. Or...you could just not have a smartphone. It isn't like anyone forced you to buy one.

    25. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone I know "wants" a new phone, but they don't want to pay a grand.

      Desktops used to be $2000 - $1000 in the 90s to 2000s and those were replaced every few years with upgrades in between.
      Then everyone bought laptops when they got to that range, again, similar upgrade/replacement schedule.
      iPaqs, Palm Treos, etc were ~$500 in early 2000s dollars, and those absolutely did not replace a laptop like a smartphone can for most people.

      Basically, don’t bullshit me that people won’t spend $1000 on their primary computing device.

    26. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you consider Android, a lot of the mid-range phones in the $150-300 range are pretty decent. It's hard for me to fathom why people look at the $800+ flagship phones or secondary market for used flagships of yesteryear.

      With a new mid-range phone, you can get a fresh battery, fresh flash storage, unscratched screen, etc. With the increased number of these in the Android One program, you also know you'll get security updates for at least a couple years. At these mid-range prices, you could even replace the phone every 2-3 years for around $100/yr of hardware budget...

    27. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahoy retarded motherfucker!

      Android based flagship devices are also in the area of a grand. Let's stop being a little dicked faggot and acting like this is an Apple thing.

    28. Re:Prices too damn high by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      You have it backwards. People DON'T want new phones.

      Exactly. They want their existing phone to not break.

    29. Re:Prices too damn high by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      The XR has the best battery life of any iPhone

      There's removable battery in that? (to swap batteries, when current one discharges)

    30. Re: Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look for the right used flagship Phone and you get a Phone that utility wide can whip any of the newest 1000 dollar so-called flagships

      It makes good sense and they can get fresh batteries since most of Them have removeable batteries

    31. Re: Prices too damn high by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

      I recently got a new iPhone and unless Seratonin is the "angry neurotransmitter" I didn't get any blasts of it. There are many things that don't work as expected or are an annoyance, like constant "reminders" to set up Apple Wallet but the missing headphone jack is the source of most of the ire. It didn't even come with a headphone adapter so I had to buy one , which doesn't work. There's not a technical reason for it failing, it works fine for 1:45 then stops working with an "Unsupported accessory" message. It's just Apple trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of me, forcing me to buy THEIR overpriced accessories (which should be included with the phone in the first place). In my case it is counterproductive because instead of thousands of dollars in future phone purchases Apple will never get another dollar from me because of the horrible experience. Heck, look at the reviews for the basic headphone adapter from the Apple store, most of the reviews are one star:

      This is my 7th one I’m one. As some one that loves wired headphones because I hate charging them this dongle is the worst !

      I'm on my third lightning adapter since April. They don't last more than 2-3 months and are very cheaply made.

      And these are the reviews from the Apple fanbois. It doesn't seem like they are feeling Seratonin blasts either.

      To anyone wondering, I am NOT Enigma2175. (I mention this because your post is exactly the sort of thing I would write/have written.)

      What you maybe should have done is what I did. I bought SEVERAL iPhone SE’s. When my current one dies... NEXT. I feel confident, (esp. as I carry my daily-driver phone in a waterproof protective case,) I have enough iPhones to last me until about the end of the phone era.

      But yeah... I won’t buy a smartphone without a headphone jack. PERIOD.

      So here’s a short, and NOT AT ALL exhaustive list of Apple products I will never buy:
      iPhone 7
      iPhone 8
      iPhone 9 (AKA iPhone X)
      iPhone XS
      iPhone X-Max or whatever goofy name Apple gave it...
      iPhone XR + 123ABC +++ or whatever...
      iPad New Pro XtraFlat XtraXpensive (or whatever)...

      If Apple thinks I’m giving them another penny for defective-by-design BS, they’re out of their minds.

      If all my iPhones die before I run out of heartbeats, I will buy a NON-Apple device to replace it, and that’s around the time I will buy my next PC, (and put GNU/Linux on it,) because as it stands, I have also already bought my last Mac.

      If the thing you’re calling a computer (and is a notebook) doesn’t have USB-3.x, (2+), Thunderbolt/MiniDP, and an SD card adapter, it’s not fit for me to use. (Apple calls a new MacBook Standard, (as I call what they call the MacBook,) a MacBook Air, which it’s not. A MacBook Air has a pair of USB type A, 3.0 or 3.1 ports, it has a Thunderbolt/MiniDP port, it has a MagSafe2 Power adapter jack... it can take without adding more outside garbage, an SD/MMC card... and Apple’s discontinued that too, I believe. So, again, no more Apple BS for me.

      I think in 10 years, Apple will sell their latest computer, a machine-carved, solid block of the element SILICON, it will cost $78,000, and it will do absolutely NOTHING. It’ll be a $78,000 paperweight... and Apple fanboize will LINE UP to buy them. SMH

      --
      Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    32. Re:Prices too damn high by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 2

      I disagree. There ARE things to distinguish them.
      The iPhone SE: my last one was under $400, has 128GB of storage, and... a... HEADPHONE... JACK.

      Your much newer phone: cost 2 or 3 times as much, didn’t have any more memory, (even if you have 256GB, or 512GB... WTF are you doing to justify paying for it? What are you doing, recording 4K video at 120fps of a bird taking a shit on your car? Oh, and as you pointed out... where’s the headphone jack? On their competitor’s phone, that’s where it is.

      We have the power to bring back the jack. How? Don’t buy another product without one.

      #bringbackthejack

      --
      Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    33. Re:Prices too damn high by johannesg · · Score: 1

      I'm not buying a new phone until I can get one that has at least 46 camera's, no physical buttons, no connectors, a screen that flows over onto the entire backside of the phone, is half a millimeter thin, and runs about two hours on a charge. It would be the ultimate in phone technology, the ideal every manufacturer strives for!

    34. Re:Prices too damn high by torkus · · Score: 1

      I went from an SE, to an XS Max, and it was worth it for the massive screen size increase,

      Unless you are built like your average NBA player, when putting it to your ear you will look like a complete dork. But then again, who uses a smartphone for phone calls?

      What I find ironic is that Dell Streak 5 (back when a 5" screen was a "phablet") was constantly made fun of for being too large and yet now we're walking around with 6.5" screens glued to our faces or, worse, the tools using a full size ipad to take pictures. I guess Dell was almost a decade ahead of it's time :) Sorry fanbois

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    35. Re:Prices too damn high by torkus · · Score: 1

      It's no different than the PC world. Software keeps moving "forward" adding tons of stupid features that endlessly bog down the system. So you need more CPU, more RAM, more storage to keep things moving along at a usable speed.

      I don't want a new phone, but I DO want my existing one not to slow to a crawl trying to run the same apps (but pointlessly newer versions that are 'required') as a year or two ago.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    36. Re:Prices too damn high by torkus · · Score: 1

      I felt the same way about my 6 until it fell in the lake. Not that I was eager to go diving for it in all the algae and pollution but it it had waterproofing I just might have.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    37. Re:Prices too damn high by flappinbooger · · Score: 1

      Everyone I know "wants" a new phone, but they don't want to pay a grand.

      I didn't even want a new phone, but I had an S6 and the non-replaceable battery had worn out after having the phone for like 3 years. It worked fine for me. It had an IR blaster. Yeah I'd filled the phone up and was having to scrimp on what I kept on it, but it just worked. I'd had a S3 before the S6.

      So, black friday brought half price S9 so.... Now I have an S9 for "half" price. Much nicer phone, crazy fast, takes a SD card, battery could go 2 days with my normal use, easy. No IR blaster but I'm happy with the phone. Yet I only got it because my S6 would have had to been ripped apart to replace the battery for at LEAST $100 cost.

      Oh well. I hope I keep this one until the S12 is out.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    38. Re:Prices too damn high by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I have a 4 year old iPhone 6. It works fine. I have no plans to replace it.

      ^This. I can't think of any features in the newer phones that I want. Especially at current prices.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    39. Re:Prices too damn high by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The XR uses an older school lower rez screen. This uses less power, thus great battery life.

      The Note 9 does a little better, but it is powering a higher resolution power thirstier screen.

      So it isn't really and Apples to Apples comparison.

      Apples average margins have gone up about 16%, so technically, it is either their costs have gone or their prices have gone up.

    40. Re:Prices too damn high by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      I disagree that it's not a fair comparison. I know the Note 9 is pushing more pixels, but it's not clear what benefit that brings beyond being able to say they have more pixels in the screen. When people sit down and actually LOOK at the screens, it's very common to hear that the XR has a very good screen. It's a choice Samsung makes, and it's not necessarily bringing a lot of benefit to customers.

      And if you check the linked article, the profit margins are flat. They're lower than at the peak, and only slightly above that of the first iPhone. It's arguable whether we think Apple should be making margins like those, but they're really not moving much.

  4. Everyone is making it more complicated than it is by KixWooder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The market is saturated. Phones are good enough and not enough people care about a new camera to justify buying a new one. Smartphones, from any manufacturer, are not status symbols anymore.

    Why do we need article after article to tell us the obvious?

    --
    I hate fat people.
  5. Thousand Bucks? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Informative

    I also think we've reached a point where a thousand bucks is more than people want to spend on their "cell phone," regardless of how cool it is. My Samsung Galaxy S5 is long in the tooth, so I just replaced it - With an S7 that cost me $225 CAD.

    I don't think I'm alone.

    1. Re:Thousand Bucks? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I also think we've reached a point where a thousand bucks is more than people want to spend on their "cell phone," regardless of how cool it is. My Samsung Galaxy S5 is long in the tooth, so I just replaced it - With an S7 that cost me $225 CAD.

      I don't think I'm alone.

      Yeah... My phone was only $200 new, but I plan on keeping it a long time anyway. I don't need anything faster (and they're only really making marginal gains now anyway) - and I got a phone that can change batteries. I already have three batteries (bought two extras- they came as a pair) - since battery is what normally dictates when a phone needs replacing, I figure at 2 years a battery, even if I can't find new replacements in a few years- I've still got 6 years worth of battery here with my current phone.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... so you disagree with the decline in sales or what?

      How can you blame $1000 phones for a decline and say you bought a $200 one?

      If everyone was doing that there would t be a decline, so... who are you disagreeing with, the people or the availability of expensive phones nobody is forced to buy.

    3. Re:Thousand Bucks? by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      Just remember to check the voltages on the spare batteries every so often if you're letting them sit rather than rotating them all.

    4. Re:Thousand Bucks? by lgw · · Score: 2

      I also think we've reached a point where a thousand bucks is more than people want to spend on their "cell phone," regardless of how cool it is.

      I bought a fairly expensive LG (hey, it had a headphone jack, premium luxury feature right there). For all the touted processing power, the key build-in apps are very slow. You'd think that if they're selling a high-end phone, the actual phone dialing app could launch in under 5 seconds!

      Maybe I'm an outlier, using a phone to actually make phone calls, but there really doesn't seem to be much of a difference anymore between the $300 phone and the $900.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re: Thousand Bucks? by ranton · · Score: 1

      ... so you disagree with the decline in sales or what?

      How can you blame $1000 phones for a decline and say you bought a $200 one?

      If everyone was doing that there would t be a decline, so... who are you disagreeing with, the people or the availability of expensive phones nobody is forced to buy.

      He bought a used/refurbished phone, so his sale wouldn't show up in the figures cited in the story. His sale does play a part in people paying for $1000+ phones, though, since I vibrant second hand market reduced the total cost of ownership of flagship phones.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    6. Re:Thousand Bucks? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I also think we've reached a point where a thousand bucks is more than people want to spend on their "cell phone," regardless of how cool it is. My Samsung Galaxy S5 is long in the tooth, so I just replaced it - With an S7 that cost me $225 CAD.

      I don't think I'm alone.

      You've never been alone. There's always been a market for older / refurbished unit, as well as non-top tier phones. However you are alone in thinking that this is a new trend or a change. People are just as happy to fork out $1000 for a phone as they were in the past for cheaper top tier devices. The difference is *they don't need to*. What does a Galaxy S9 offer over my S7 (a $750 phone at launch)? There's no big driver to upgrade anymore. Android stopped adding killer hardware and referencing that in upgraded APIs many generations ago. The iPhone likewise, the awesome feature of a talking and expressive poo not withstanding of course.

    7. Re: Thousand Bucks? by LostMyAccount · · Score: 1

      It's impossible to take most Slashdot cell phone article comments seriously.

      All the comments are filled with people bragging (and probably exaggerating) how little they paid for their phones, their phone service, and then making snide comments about iPhones.

      I don't get it -- seldom do you go to an enthusiast web site where people talk about how little they seem to care about the site's main topic. Why would a technology discussion forum be filled with people who are so under invested in technology?

    8. Re:Thousand Bucks? by geoscodin · · Score: 1

      I haven't bought a new phone since my first Samsung G5. I tried a G7 Edge, but was always activating apps accidentally, so I switched to a G7, but bought both refurbished, I just bought my daughter a used iPhone 7. My wife, however, bought a new Note 5 and my son bought a new G9. It's interesting because my wife mostly emails and facebooks, and my son almost exclusively watched video. He's preferred the phone to the big screen TV going back to his S6.

    9. Re:Thousand Bucks? by phalse+phace · · Score: 1

      I also think we've reached a point where a thousand bucks is more than people want to spend on their "cell phone," regardless of how cool it is.

      How many people buying high priced phones pay for it in full?

      People I know and work with spread out the payments over a 24 month period so it's easier on the wallet. So that $1,000 iPhone is actually $41.67 a month which to them doesn't seem as bad. And if they trade in their old iPhone when upgrading, it's even less.

      That's why Apple has their iPhone upgrade program. They knew their high prices would be a turn off for some buyers, so to make upgrading appear less expensive, they created monthly payments and 0% interest.

    10. Re:Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's because there isn't a whole lot of difference between a $300 and $1000 phone today in terms of performance. You are paying that money for the fit, finish, brand name, and BS "features". There isn't hell of a lot of difference in real world usage between a new phone today and a 3 or 4 year old flagship. This is exactly why no one is just "upgrading" their phone, they are generally replacing a broken/lost phone. The industry today is at the point that the PC industry was at a decade ago, saturated with little improvement for typical workloads for the money.

    11. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know where you get that "under invested in technology" thing from.
      What ARE the actual technological features you miss out on a $300 Android phone vs. an $1000 phone?
      The advantages Apple has in chip technology are completely eaten up by the walled garden limiting what you can actually do with it.
      Even on Android custom ROMs are in a zombie state at best.
      Technical progress is there, but it's rather limited. I find nothing surprising about people on a technology site not being enthusiastic when there's at best baby-steps technological progress with giant-step price hikes.

    12. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technology hasn't been a talking point around here for eons.

      -----

      Sent from my Motorola MicroTAC

    13. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The advantages Apple has in chip technology are completely eaten up by the walled garden limiting what you can actually do with it.
       
      Name something that the chip technology can do that the "walled garden" limits. Be very specific. Feel free to cite claims to your Android insult too.
       
        there's at best baby-steps technological progress with giant-step price hikes.
       
      Pfft. A first generation Motorola StarTAC retailed at 1200 USD. Tell me again about the "giant-step price hikes."
       
      Something you fucks fail to appreciate is that the phones really aren't more expensive. Either your memory is shit or you forget the days of subsidized phones when your cellular plan was costing you around 5-10 cents a minute wether you used it or not and god forbid you go over because you'll be hit with charges that made phone sex rates look like a bargain.
       
      Anyone here "old enough" to remember when rollover plans were considered a big deal? Yeah, I thought so but you fucking shitbags are playing dumb. Today's cell plans are cheap as fuck and the phones are no more expensive than they were back then.

    14. Re:Thousand Bucks? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty much the same. My old phone just recently died and to replace it I bought a new LG V20 (new, but it's obviously an older model). I paid right at $200 USD. It works absolutely fine and like the last one I'll use it until it dies or I manage to crack the screen (which in 10 years of smart phone use I've only managed to do once).

      As a plus - that was one of the last phones with a removable battery. I don't think its an accident that the phone companies all decided to make the most failure-prone component non-serviceable by an average user.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    15. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get it -- seldom do you go to an enthusiast web site where people talk about how little they seem to care about the site's main topic. Why would a technology discussion forum be filled with people who are so under invested in technology?

      Phones aren't (or at least shouldn't be) the site's main topic because telephony is a mature technology. The only changes are how the suppliers are screwing us around.

      Under invested in technology? Anything as locked down as iAndroid doesn't deserve any investment.

    16. Re: Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > people who are so under invested in technology?

      But they aren't. They paid a far smaller amount for a product that is nearly as capable as the expensive option. It's like someone who buys a Porsche 911 is more invested in cars than someone who buys a Honda Civic (yet has a good understanding of the internals and can make repairs).

      I've got a cheap phone, yet have a triple monitor desktop setup with wired LAN connection.

      The people who are really crazy are the "death of the PC" marketing fools.

    17. Re:Thousand Bucks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in Canada, you can't get a new iPhone on contrac/monthly payment unless you sign up for an expensive plan.

      Bring your own phone $50 plan, buy an iPhone $80 plan. Of course these are starting prices, so with a plan you actually want, and iPhone could cost $100/mth plan and $41.67/mth installment pay plan.

      This usually also applies to other top tier phones, but mostly our service providers have special (higher) price plans for iPhones.

      I have a friend with an iPhone. Over his 2 year installment pay plan, he paid $500 up front, $90 for his cell plan. Over all he spent $1200 more then me over that time. He could have bought the iPhone, got a cheaper plan and SAVED $300!

      People have NO idea how much they pay for their phones. None.

  6. Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nightfire-unique · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm still waiting for a legitimate flagship phone to replace my Note 3.

    Every phone released after it has been worse, by some measure:

    - Missing key sensors (ie. thermometer, which is super useful while winter camping)
    - Missing the headphone/mic jack
    - Missing physical home and back/task switch buttons
    - Having locked bootloaders that are difficult to deal with
    - Having poor support for LineageOS/AOSP
    - Being constructed of metal/glass that breaks/bends easily compared to plastic, along with bizarre screen curvatures
    - Having wear components, such as batteries, glued in and non-replaceable, limiting the lifespan to ~18 months

    I have literally thousands of US dollars to spend on a new phone, and can't wait for the day something is released which rivals the Note 3.

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    1. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      You forgot one:

      - Catches fire

    2. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Note4? That was the last good phone of the Note series in my opinion. Can find NIB or like new refurbs at about the $200 price point on ebay.

    3. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd put this under

      - super useful while winter camping

    4. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As for temp sensor, i dont think the note4 has one aside from the sensor for the SOC temp. I can't see an ambient temp sensor being all that accurate seeing as the phone is generally carried in a pocket or cause of the heat generated internally by the phone while in use. a $5 digital thermometer you could hang on your bag would probably provide far superior results.

    5. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      As for temp sensor, i dont think the note4 has one aside from the sensor for the SOC temp. I can't see an ambient temp sensor being all that accurate seeing as the phone is generally carried in a pocket or cause of the heat generated internally by the phone while in use. a $5 digital thermometer you could hang on your bag would probably provide far superior results.

      Actually, it works *surprisingly* well. Of course, if it's in your pocket ... it's measuring the temperature of your pocket. :p

      I keep mine in the overhead gear loft of my tent overnight, and it's tested accurate between -28C and 31C at +/-2C. More importantly, it notes the trends, and combined with the hygrometer, makes it super easy to predict local weather patterns for the day.

      Sure, I have a satphone and can download weather updates, but so far I've been right every time using my little pocket weather station.

      It's the ability to record temperatures which is handy.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    6. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      You're better off getting an external thermometer. Phones get hot- particularly batteries and CPUs. Its impossible to filter that out and figure out what the actual temperature is outside.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nightfire-unique · · Score: 2

      I've used it a lot, and it's actually surprisingly accurate as long as you keep it in the ambient air you want to measure (ie. not on your person), and make sure to give it ~5-10 minutes to cool down after being under load.

      I leave it recording the temperature in the background whenever I'm out winter-camping more than a few days. You get little spikes when you put it under a very heavy load, but otherwise it's accurate from about +30 to -30C +/- 2C. It's fantastic to know how cold it gets overnight, so you can optimize your sleep system. I also set a temperature alarm overnight to wake me up if the temperatures drop below a certain point to help avoid hypothermia; if I'm expecting -10C, and it hits, for example, -18C, it might be time for another liner, etc.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    8. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by LubosD · · Score: 1

      I'm also sticking to my Note 3. I agree with all the above points, but I'm for sure not willing to spend $1400 on a Note 9 when I bought the Note 3 for half that price. Note 9 is clearly better - for sure - but not THAT much better to justify this insane price.

    9. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nanospook · · Score: 1

      The S8 Plus was the first phone I've had since the note 3 that I felt was well worth the upgrade. Why? The OLED screen. It's simply beautiful and has low power consumption compared to the older phones. I have a folder full of downloaded GIFS and run an app that plays them randomly. My phone went from boring to pretty interesting overnight.

      --
      Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
    10. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      Note 9 is clearly better

      I dunno man. No home button (so leaving fullscreen mode is a huge pain in the ass), and awful materials. My friend's got one, and that curved screen is terrible to use.

      Faster CPU and better camera, for sure.. but.. I don't think it's better.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    11. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by ProzacPatient · · Score: 1

      I'm in the same boat but with the Note 4. I recently looked at the idea of giving in and upgrading to a Note 9 but I really didn't want to spend nearly $1000 on a phone that I probably would end up not liking anyway.

    12. Re:Still waiting for a another legitimate flagship by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      If you're not running it already, the latest hlte LineageOS 14.1 builds are absolutely bulletproof, and lightning fast.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  7. First it happened with PCs. by doubledown00 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now with smart phones. This leaves manufacturers with two options: 1) Open new markets, or 2) Actually innovate. Unless a whole bunch of new tribes are discovered, the former ain't happening. Which means we all hold our breath and wait for #2.

    Until that happens we should all prepare ourselves for wave after wave of dull non-innovative over-priced dreck.

    1. Re:First it happened with PCs. by torkus · · Score: 2

      They could try listening to customers that don't need an extra CPU to support some esoteric AI function but instead want a larger and/or removable battery, the return of their headphones jack, a phone that doesn't shatter in 5 seconds if you don't have a case, and (for some) USB-C connectivity.

      The minor incremental improvements to the camera are no longer worth buying a $1000 device. The cutesy changes to face-ID and in-screen fingerprint reading are...cutesy.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    2. Re:First it happened with PCs. by thomn8r · · Score: 1
      Unless a whole bunch of new tribes are discovered

      Sentinel Island is a huge untapped market!

    3. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      What more could they actually add to a phone?

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      What more could they actually add to a phone?

      X-ray vision and a taser? Harpoon gun?

      I think I would settle for robustness.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, now we can look forward to media hacks propounding on the "post-cell phone era". Right?

      Right?

    6. Re:First it happened with PCs. by LostMyAccount · · Score: 1

      I figure you need some kind of innovation breakthrough akin to the transition from "cell phone" to smartphone, which might not even be a device that's principally a phone but just so happens to be able to replace the phone component of cell phones.

      The problem is smartphones are so dominated by Apple and Samsung that neither one is likely to take much risk in terms of innovation lest they disturb the profit machine/technology paradigm they already dominate.

    7. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, all the stuff they removed? Headphone jack, removable battery, temperature sensor (external), robust plastic back with good comfortable grip (metal is just horrible in winter).
      Things that aren't working yet: gloves mode that actually works, a proper 4x or more zoom, 4 day or more battery life, desktop mode (e.g. running a full Linux if you connect screen, keyboard and mouse).
      And before you come with "that's not possible within a phone's constraints", maybe the (often purely imaginary) constraints need re-thinking?

    8. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, maybe a... headphone jack?

    9. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since the early 2000's I have been waiting for a watch or ring with wireless internet which I could take off and set on table which then projected a high resolution image and keyboard I could manipulate. Add in a useful voice assistant and wireless headphones and they can take my money.

    10. Re:First it happened with PCs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #3 settle for lower volumes. market share wins. and of course niche/profitability.

      Of #2 (innovate) and #3 (consolidate) guess what is more likely to happen. Bingo.

  8. We want less notches and more headphone jacks by xack · · Score: 1

    Plus we need a viable third OS. KaiOS looks promising, but it needs to be on flagship phones.

    1. Re:We want less notches and more headphone jacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Less notches, more headphone jacks, less thinness and more removable batteries. Being unable to replace batteries without tearing down phones made so thin as to prevent that is forcing upgrades to happen faster. When the rest of the hardware and software is fine, but the battery can't hold a charge anymore, it sucks.

    2. Re:We want less notches and more headphone jacks by Arkham · · Score: 1

      Plus we need a viable third OS. KaiOS looks promising, but it needs to be on flagship phones.

      I don't care about notches or headphone jacks, at all. They're both fine. I don't want another ecosystem either, aside from competition moving my preferred platform forward through necessity.

      The simple truth for me is that the iPhone XS isn't a big improvement over the X (I have both at my desk at work), and the Pixel 3 isn't a big improvement over the Pixel 2 (I have both at my desk at work).

      The changes are so incremental now that it's hard to be excited about what the new one gets you. I plan on keeping my current phone for a few years in hope of something compelling. More incremental improvements just aren't going to keep me on an annual upgrade cycle.

      --
      - Vincit qui patitur.
    3. Re:We want less notches and more headphone jacks by torkus · · Score: 1

      I hear so much fussing about removable batteries but it seems no one realizes that it's not just a planned obsolescence mechanic. Making a phone rigid enough to be the sizes we have today is vastly helped by having a solid front and back. Depending exclusively on the internal structure (and then making most of that void-space for a battery) is going to require a fair amount of bracing that could otherwise be dedicated to...yah, more battery.

      If you can't do it yourself, plenty of fix-it stores will swap your battery in the time it takes you to go have a cup of coffee for a very reasonable price. Doing that every 1.5-2 years isn't unreasonable.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  9. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we need a comment like this?

  10. "Smart"-phones is wrong. by Quakeulf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They call them smartphones but they behave like dumbphones, making the user and everyone else involved dumber. They are designed to keep you dumb. The novelty of the name "smartphone" has worn off a long time ago.

    1. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It had a much longer shelf-life than the "phones make you dumb" take, though.

    2. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yeah just like the computer is called the slow adder, because while it computes the user still can't add numbers together quickly.

      Seriously who modded up that drivel.

    3. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They call them smartphones but they behave like dumbphones, making the user and everyone else involved dumber. They are designed to keep you dumb. The novelty of the name "smartphone" has worn off a long time ago.

      People still HAVE smartphones there is just less demand to upgrade because just like PC's they aren't improving at a rate that warrants updating every year. No one gives a shit what they're called. Most people just call them "phones". They're handheld computers that can easily act as a phone. That's it. They also allow nearly ubiquitous access to information. I can lookup anything I want and at time in less than 10 seconds and because I can properly vet and retain information, I'm significantly smarter than before the smartphone era. Smartphones aren't making people dumb, they just highlight how incredibly stupid most people already are.

    4. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 1

      Old people. My ability to use the always-connected miracle device in my pocket to do quick research on questions, store useless facts, and connect to virtually anyone in the world at at least near-real-time means that I have more grey-matter-space available for flexible thinking and problem solving. Old people are convinced that people spend too much time on their phones and that it has a negative impact on their social lives. Yes, grandpa, no one stretches the phone cord out of the room to have a private conversation anymore...

      --
      Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
    5. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      If you defend the current goal of smartphones as a time-wasting spy device, you are either invested in it, or unaware of the consequences this has on future generations.

    6. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      Why are you so content with being in an abusive relationship? There are no benefits of using a phone as it is now. It is designed entirely to control your life.

    7. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by torkus · · Score: 1

      Actually with the random research and learning I can do on my phone it's definitely made me more educated, not less.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    8. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If you defend the current goal of smartphones as a time-wasting spy device, you are either invested in it, or unaware of the consequences this has on future generations.

      Or maybe I am simply refusing to throw the baby out with the bathwater like every other idiotic knee jerk reaction seems to these days. Why are you still here* on Slashdot?

      *Posted from a PC using a browser I'm sure is spying on me, on a network I'm sure is spying on me, to a website that has and endless string of analytics social and tracking scripts embedded provided by third parties who make it their business to spy on me.

    9. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      I hope you don't think encryption of any kind is secure.

    10. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I hope you don't think encryption of any kind is secure.

      Of course it is. Its security is a mathematically verifiable fact. Now do you want to rephrase your thought as something more meaningful, mentioning maybe bugs, trust of third party code, trust of certificate generation, strength of algorithms, etc. Or are you again applying sweeping statements throwing the baby out with the bathwater (you’ll rapidly running out of offspring if you bath them like that).

    11. Re:"Smart"-phones is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been a techie since the Vic20, and never owned a smartphone (nor any product from Apple).

      My pay-as-you-go slide phone gets used maybe twice a year (and costs $10/yr to keep active).

      My SanDisk MP3 player does everything I want, audio wise and is so cheap I own several.

      And, non-trivial benefit, I've been radiation-free for 5 years.

      Apple might just be the most overrated company on Earth.

  11. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by doubledown00 · · Score: 2

    Phones are good enough and not enough people care about a new camera to justify buying a new one. Smartphones, from any manufacturer, are not status symbols anymore.

    Tell that to my wife. She salivates every time the Pixel 3 commercials come on. To hear her tell it a wider selfie camera is the only thing standing between us and a life of complete fulfillment.

  12. Poor Apple by gviamont · · Score: 1

    I guess this means that Apple will have to get out of the tech business and become a hedge fund.

    1. Re:Poor Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit , apple is a fashion business. Nothing tech about them.

  13. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Tell that to my wife. She salivates every time the Pixel 3 commercials come on. To hear her tell it a wider selfie camera is the only thing standing between us and a life of complete fulfillment.

    I'm not sure if I should be jealous of you or feel sorry for you.

  14. Once again, misleading headline by Mike · · Score: 1

    Headline: "We're in the smartphone decline"

    First line of post: "...and the next decade may start to see smartphone sales decline" ......unless you prefer the politician's usage of "decline" (decline in growth). Ugh.

  15. Wait a minute by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know Penny Marshall wasn't the most attractive woman in the world - but I don't know how someone would confuse her with Martin Scorsese.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Wait a minute by Hobart · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you're joking. OP is referring to this scene from Scorsese's 1973 "Mean Streets" - not the 1986 movie with Whoopi Goldberg you seem to be referencing.

      --
      o/~ Join us now and share the software ...
  16. replacement is down. Total users will still go up. by bill.pev · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The number of people who own smartphones will increase, but if they don't replace them every 6 months when a vastly better one comes out, along with killer apps that need the new capabilities, then people will hang onto them for longer. This is better for the environment, and for consumers.

    So we'd expect annual sales to drop once the market is saturated (by definition) ... Unless they are built to last only 6 to 12 months. And they aren't repairable.

  17. I think they forgot by bferrell · · Score: 1

    A phone, smart or other wise is an individually addressable network terminal. It's not a fashion accessory.

    Once everyone has one, other than radical changes in technology (no, I don't mean "disruptive" garbage) or replacing broken equipment, at the prices as they are now, people have no reason to buy.

    I've carried an S5 for about 5 years now. I got it to switch from Sprint to GSM and real LTE. It serves me well and when the 5G network deploys, I'll replace it. Until then, there is no real reason for me to trade "up".

    1. Re:I think they forgot by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      A phone, smart or other wise is an individually addressable network terminal.

      You have to admit it beats the hell out of a Lear Siegler ADM3A.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    2. Re:I think they forgot by bferrell · · Score: 1

      Or a 33ASR

    3. Re:I think they forgot by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Or a 33ASR

      NOTHING beats an ASR33!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    4. Re:I think they forgot by torkus · · Score: 1

      You don't have kids or know many millennials do you?

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    5. Re:I think they forgot by bferrell · · Score: 1

      Sure... a 35ASR

  18. Re: Everyone is making it more complicated than it by JoshYagley · · Score: 2

    Another issue is that there is no obvious software limited by hardware in the cell phone market. Maybe in the future AR will help to drive hardware technology. But so long as AR development is relegated to isolated applications no one will care.

  19. I'm all for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully, they'll start making more managable 3 and 4inch telephones.

  20. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you tell that to your wife yourself then?

    Why did you marry such a vapid woman to begin with?

  21. Depends on how you measure plateau by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we're talking new sales of phones, yes we've reached a plateau. If we're talking about % of world population that use a cell phone... no, we haven't reached a plateau and won't for a long time.

    The main difference is, phone sellers raised their prices so much that people want to hold onto their phones longer. When a new phone costs $200 you don't mind replacing it in a few years. When a new phone costs $1000 you would be peeved if you were forced to replace it in two years.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by RuiFRibeiro · · Score: 2

      You can always choose to buy a 200-400 phone from the likes of Xiaomi that have only a small profit margin. Better than buying something built for a 1000% profit as Samsung or Apple.

      The technology as evolved significantly both in computing power and software design for a cheaper phone to be more than enough for almost anyone.

    2. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      The high-end got more expensive, but at the same time the low-end got much better. A $200 phone now can perform so well, most people would not feel a need to upgrade for quite a while.

    3. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by coastwalker · · Score: 2

      My first smart phone last Christmas cost me $15, its fantastic! This is one market where you could tell that early adopters were going to pay for my great experience if I waited long enough. Posted from my second hand Xeon workstation.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    4. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by Kjella · · Score: 2

      If we're talking new sales of phones, yes we've reached a plateau. If we're talking about % of world population that use a cell phone... no, we haven't reached a plateau and won't for a long time.

      That will probably look more like an S-curve but we're already far past the inflection point. Time per billion unique mobile users according to this:

      1st billion: 13+ years (they lack early history)
      2nd billion: 4 years
      3rd billion: 3 years
      4th billion: 3.5 years
      5th billion: 4 years

      That's 5 billion of a world population of 7.6 including little kids - even in sub-Saharan Africa 70% of the population age 16+ have a cell phone. There's really just three poorly connected countries left in the world: Cuba, North Korea and Ethiopia. We're filling out gaps with the young, old and the gender equality, but the vast majority has a cell phone in the family.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by torkus · · Score: 1

      Unlike Apple, Samsung absolutely DOES have a line of low-cost smartphones. You don't see them marketed much (or at all) in the US but they're there. They're super common in 3rd world/developing countries too.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    6. Re:Depends on how you measure plateau by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      The high-end got more expensive, but at the same time the low-end got much better. A $200 phone now can perform so well, most people would not feel a need to upgrade for quite a while.

      Yes, that is true. My phones have all been "previous generation" phones for and I've never paid much more than that. Still, a large number of people do buy the silly-expensive phones.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  22. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Jealous of what, exactly?

    --
    No sig today...
  23. Galaxy Note 4 Better than Galaxy Note 8 by BrendaEM · · Score: 2

    Of course, I've owned both. The curved screens make no sense in the real world.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:Galaxy Note 4 Better than Galaxy Note 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As have I, and you're on drugs. Clearly. The Note 4 was a turd.

  24. It's called market saturation by lusid1 · · Score: 1

    Everyone who's going to buy one already has one. All that remains is the upgrade/refresh/break-fix treadmill.

  25. a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suspect it is largely due to the fact that we've just reached the point that until there is some revolutionary breakthrough, phones are as good as any reasonable person will ever need and the whole "must replace every year or two" has lost its inertia.

    Now trust me, if Apple or someone else comes up with a phone that really breaks the mold, like you can get 100 hours continuous use battery life, then they will sell like hotcakes.

  26. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Falos · · Score: 1

    No matter how true your points are, the industry will fight a downhill reality. And the swarms of surfacedwellers in their socnets are susceptible. Consider the DeBeers diamond brainwashing.

    They have every incentive to convince us that spending $1000 to go from capable-phone-1 to capable-phone-2 is "worth it", if not an utter necessity to being A Complete Human Being.

  27. Why would I "upgrade"? by irrational_design · · Score: 1

    My work pays for my phone and data (currently I have an iPhone 7 plus with unlimited data). I can upgrade every 18 months. I have been able to upgrade for about 3 months now, but I haven't done so. My current phone is still as good as the day I bought it in every aspect. There is absolutely nothing in the more current iPhone offerings that would tempt me to move over. I have too many apps to consider moving to Android. Maybe Apple will come out with something compelling next year, but based on the rumors so far I'm doubting it.

  28. Of course by Ziest · · Score: 1

    Yeah, what do you do when everyone who wants a smartphone has one ? Unless you are one of the Apple fanboi who HAVE to have the latest, the phone you have is just fine. I've got a Galaxy S7 that I got for free for renewing my phone contract. Everytime a new phone comes out my attitude is "I'm not going to get a new phone unless either this one dies or I get it for free." I mean, do you really have to have the latest?

    --
    Another day closer to redwood heaven
  29. Time to cannibalize the PC market by HeckRuler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If they make a decent interface from a phone to a real monitor, (and they get their butts out of their heads when it comes to bluetooth support for mouse and keyboard) then most people's use-case for owning anything other than a phone really diminishes.

    I don't know if it has to be wired. Mirroring the screen via chromecast didn't work so well for me, but maybe they could get it working. There's a few niche products out there that have a dock, but they didn't catch on.

    I could see a world where we all just walk around with our main computer on our body all the time. Instead of a work computer or a rig at home. A workstation would just be a chair, monitor, keyboard/mouse, wifi, and some place to plug in. And of course a bitchin' VR supporting super-computer next to a cybernetic psychic dolphin.

    1. Re:Time to cannibalize the PC market by torkus · · Score: 1

      Samsung continues to revise their Dex dock. It's ... not bad.

      I'm also not about to replace my computer with it just yet either. Oddly, the phone screen runs at a higher resolution than my external monitor but it still seems to struggle more filling the external.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  30. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Known+Nutter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone that shallow is probably hot...

    --
    Beware of the Leopard.
  31. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that you Tim?

  32. People need more than 1 phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mobile companies need to pounce on this opportunity... It's so glaringly obvious

    1. Re:People need more than 1 phone by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      Even in 3rd world countries, most people over the age of 11 already have two.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  33. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell that to my wife. She salivates every time the Pixel 3 commercials come on. To hear her tell it a wider selfie camera is the only thing standing between us and a life of complete fulfillment.

    Down a few pages in the article, you can see that cheap phones and high end phones are both gaining market share and mid-ranged phones are almost gone.

  34. Limiting factor by Shotgun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For every computer that must interact with humans, there is a limiting factor....the human.

    This happened to desktops. They got so fast that the biggest slice of CPU time went to waiting on me, the memory was big enough to hold anything I could conceivably ever want to work with, and I couldn't take enough pictures to fill the hard drive.

    So people moved to laptops, because they were becoming just as powerful but portable. Then they became just as powerful, and the point of buying a new one went away.

    So people moved to phones, which were more portable. I can't think of any app I have that doesn't spend more time waiting on me than I does processing. There is no point of adding more megapixels to camera, and it stores more pictures than I can be bothered to cycle through. Other than a broken phone (and, I bought a Kyocera this time to avoid that scenario) what is the point of spending $1k on another one that will just spend MORE time waiting on me?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  35. More customers? ROBOTIZATION! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just make customer-robots: they don't eat (much, just some highly subventioned electrical energy), don't need that much living space... then just give unconditional basic income to them, and let 'em consume!

    I guarantee you, customer-robots have a much better consumpivity than filthy humans. Basic income is in better hands with them.

    THE SHOW MUST GO ON!

    1. Re: More customers? ROBOTIZATION! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon prime video - Electric dreams episode "Autofac".

    2. Re:More customers? ROBOTIZATION! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or just heavily market the necessity of two phones per person.

      Hot girl with two phones: "What, you only have ONE phone?! What a loser!"
      Ugly dude with one phone: *sob*

  36. Clearly it's a marketing problem by Thraxy · · Score: 1

    They need to boast more about the camera zoom. I don't care about megapixels... that's not gonna win me any dickpic awards.

    1. Re:Clearly it's a marketing problem by Holi · · Score: 2

      No, for that you need micropixels.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  37. There is little competition... by RyanRife8866 · · Score: 2

    You basically can get an iPhone or an Android (which now have little to differentiate themselves)....it's time for something new! Bring back Blackberry OS or Windows Mobile.

    1. Re:There is little competition... by torkus · · Score: 1

      Blackberry does still technically have a line of phones in existence. It runs a modified android of course...but oddly they aren't dead yet.

      But really, you want windows mobile back? Be careful what you ask for. MS is developing yet another lower-power version of Win10.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. I think the price is only a minor factor .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    A lot of people are saying the decline is because "people don't want to pay $1000+ for the latest phone!". I'd say that's far less of an issue than the fact that the market is finally saturated with really good cellphones!

    For many years, you had a situation where the people with enough money would always buy the latest and greatest phone, and typically hand down their old one to another family member, trade it in, or sell it online (eBay, Craigslist, etc.) at a big discount. The thing is? When cellphones were still getting major new features and significant upgrades at a fast pace, that meant the new phones really were significantly better than the ones they were letting go of. The "churn" helped a lot of people get their hands on a name brand, legitimate "top tier" smartphone, who couldn't otherwise afford or cost-justify one. But they still had a phone that was inferior to the "new stuff", and within a year or so? They, too, were looking to upgrade.

    I think we're at a point now where the people who spent the money for the "best" phones are happy to get another year or two of use from them. They're not so quick to let go of them. And the last generation of phones that other people are carrying around are "good enough". Sure, the new ones are nicer -- but they're not missing features they can't live without.

    Especially with the phones sold via contracts where you pay it off in monthly installments? Anyone with a decent full-time job can technically afford to buy a new one, even at $1000+. The point is, they don't WANT to have that chunk coming out of each paycheck when the only thing they're getting for it is a couple of new camera special f/x or "an even brighter, more colorful display than you last one that already looks amazing".

    I'm one of those people who used to upgrade iPhones with pretty much every new revision. Maybe not on day 1? But within 3-6 months or so, I usually found a buyer for my existing phone and kicked in the difference to get the new model. It was always worth it, for things like the phone adding a new cellular band it supported for LTE data with my provider, or the Touch ID feature, or the phone gaining a second camera lens for telephoto -- not to mention faster CPUs and often more memory in the devices.

    But now, my iPhone X really has everything covered. I can't see how there's almost anything compelling about upgrading to the new phones over this one? The X is plenty fast enough. (The big argument for needing more CPU or GPU power on the iPhones, at this point, seems to be for people using virtual reality or AR-heavy apps -- which I don't do much of with my phone at this time.) I've already got the Face ID feature, and having it work a second or two faster is "nice to have" but not enough to spend much money to get it. I'm even told my battery life is probably a bit better on my X than what I'd get if I upgraded it.

    I'm sure I'd like a cellphone with 5G data support, when that's actually rolled out in a substantial way. But I think that's probably the next "upgrade driver" for me, and perhaps many others.

  40. Market Saturation by atrex · · Score: 1

    There are only so many people that want/need to buy smartphones just like there are only so many people that want/need to own cars. Once you've saturated the market the only new sales you get are those replacing older models and those reaching an age where they buy their first smartphone while losing the sales that would have gone to people that can no longer use a smartphone (whether that's due to age, health, or death).

    If there are no new markets for manufacturers to sell to, then there's little new growth to be found. Realistically, there is zero wrong with this situation. It's only the capitalistic mindset, the mindset of greed, that demands to see profits grow every quarter. A stable annual profit in the billions of dollars is nothing to sneeze at. And in a market with a decent amount of non-colluding competitors, this situation is actually to a consumer's advantage since individual companies that can't acquire new markets to feed growth, will instead offer discounts and features to try and steal their competitors' market share.

    The only thing they really have to worry about in this scenario, is for some product to come along that makes the smartphone obsolete. Not sure that product exists though, unless someone invents a neural link interface (not that Musk isn't trying).

  41. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Headw1nd · · Score: 1, Troll

    The responses to this comment puzzle me. Somehow the idea that a woman would be interested in an improved tech product is interpreted as proof she is shallow, while men doing the exact same thing, incidentally the raison d’être of this site, is not interpreted the same way.

  42. five stages of leash by epine · · Score: 1

    Move over five stages of grief, we're at the fourth stage of leash.

    The fifth stage of leash is where the hapless victim becomes adamant that the codependent relationship (who really controls that pesky CPU?) and corporate surveillance is all in your own best interest, and for your own good.

    Father knows best.

    Long live the hunchback salute.

  43. No we're not by zmooc · · Score: 1

    We're No Longer in Smartphone Plateau. We're in the Smartphone Decline.

    We're not. We may be in the Smartphone Sales Decline because we're effectively in a Smartphone Feature Plateau, but we definitely are not in a Smartphone Decline.

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
  44. The Market is Secure by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    What seems to have passed everyone's notice is that we have successfully raised an entire generation (with spillover to older generations) that have become unable to go poop unless they take their smart phone with them.

    So there will always be some demand even if the new features aren't driving otherwise-unneeded upgrades.

  45. American logic: Selling more is a "plateau"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And people keeping their phones, is a "decline".

    Just like explosive brutally obviously unsustainable exponential growth of growth is "growth",
    And a healthy stable balance is "stagnation" is "depression".

    It's like they WANT everything to explode and die from having consumed all its resources without recycling any.

    I've seen toddlers at our daycare that understood this. Literally! We played a little game with toy figurines as the resource, that was an analogy.
    I presume if you gave those figurines to Wall Street, they would probably stick them up their noses to snort them, "cause cocaine!".

    I am 100% certain that our kids today are born way smarter, and we just deliberately breed them into the complete retards that the "average" "grown-up" Joes are.

  46. Re: Waifu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sick anime freak.

  47. But it happened faster than for computers by shanen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I ever got a mod point, then I'd give you [KixWooder] an insightful mod for that comment rather than a mere interesting. Hypothetical since I never get mod points. Or maybe not even relevant, since I do want to comment and I think that would cancel my hypothetical mod point...

    The most significant aspect is that we reached saturation much faster this time compared to computers, (but also relative to any other technology I can think of). The capabilities of the smartphones are beyond what most people can actually use, and even though the capabilities are increasing (and the prices are decreasing), there's no reason to buy a new one. The available new customers are just late adopters yielding ever lower profit margins (as the prices continue to fall).

    Converting it to anecdote form (as a data point), what I am doing with my latest smartphone is only slightly better than what I was doing three smartphones ago. Actually, there was one major feature of my old PDA that I still haven't ported to the smartphone era, but mostly I've been looking for new things I actually want to do and not finding much. (Voice dictation is the main one, but it would run on the old phones, too.) The main reason I got a new smartphone this year was because it was free, but if prices keep falling, they may have to pay me to go through the hassle up the next "upgrade".

    (Perhaps my perception of the lack of new and desirable features is just because I've mostly stopped playing time-wasting games? Most of the "new" games are just flashier versions of ancient classics. Interesting coincidence that I'm almost finished reading Fire in the Valley right now, and it mentions many of the old games (and brings back the memories). I don't play them now, but I'm confident I would still enjoy them. I just feel I have better uses for my time and absolutely no need for more and newer ways to waste time. (Well, except for that literacy development game no one has developed yet...))

    Pay me to upgrade my smartphone? Well that's also how I'm feeling about the latest pains of Windows 10. Come to think of it, I didn't pay any money for those upgrades to Windows 10 and I have no desire to ever again pay Microsoft for anything... (Just my allergy to corporate cancers typing?)

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:But it happened faster than for computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its too bad that its not a sign of people getting over their "smart"-phone-itis! Thats where people spend most of their time on their phone using Fakebook, TWITter, or other useless data collection sites, or playing silly games. Far too many people just don't know when to put the damned phone down and shut it off!

      I will never have a "smart" phone, I don't like being spied upon. Same reason that I will NEVER have Windows on any of my computers.

  48. The Blackview BV6000 had it all though. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easily disassembled: Check.
    IP86 with real rubber seals, not glue: Check.
    Aluminium with polycarbonate overmolding: Check.
    Physical corner/edge protection/padding built in, that would otherwise be in an ugly aftermarket case: check.
    Physical (touch) home/back/task switch buttons: Check.
    Easily unlocked bootloader: Check.
    Vanilla Android: Check. (There's LineageOS too, but it misses a few things. But only because I didn't do it myself. It's easy if you actually know how to use a computer.)
    Two SIM slots, and a *third* microSD slot on top: Check.
    Headphone/mic jack: Check.
    No stupid "wireless charging" idiocy: Check
    Awesome look, not "bland featureless slab of meh": Check.
    Battery that lasts forever (3.5 days when new and with full usage, wifi permanently on): Check.
    Wifi that still has a signal, half a block away: Check.
    Super-bright flashlight lamp: Check. (I used it as a bike lamp in an emergency.)
    Extremely good build quality, feels nice too: Check.
    Actually still gets OS updates: Check.
    Literally unbrickable: Check. (You can flash it, even if there is no OS or boot loader, and even if it won't turn on!)

    OK, ...
    the battery was still glued onto the board. But only with a strip of sticky tape that was no match for my hair dryer.
    And yes, it was heavy. But either you can have a big battery and a strong case, OR a light phone. Fuck light. I want a man’s phone!
    It didn't have a temperature sensor either, but I found that pretty useless and stupid, given that it will be a different temperature in/on the phone and in my pocket anyway.
    Some also told me that apparently its CPU is a weaker one. But I did not see a single thing that was slow or stuttering. And I don't need it purely for penis compensation. I have a PC and two servers to do heavy computation.

    But...
    The manufacturer literally uploaded a disassembly video.
    All replacement parts were available, no problem, via e-Bay et al.
    CHECK and CHECK!

    And you know what I paid?
    180 fuckin Euros!!
    180!! Not 1080!
    If it breaks after 6 months, I can buy an entirely new one, and *still* pay less than a "mid-range" model from a big brand.
    (It didn't. It’s still going strong. I only added a new battery, and a loudspeaker that I like more, for 13EUR total.)

    No, don't buy it. It's outdated now. But only because there's models with 10Ah (10000mAh) and more memory and stronger CPUs now! (From the same, and many other manufacturers.)
    Still for similar prices.

    1. Re:The Blackview BV6000 had it all though. by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      Holy shit. Have you seen the BV9500? Actually there are a bunch of armored phones out now... the Ulefone as well! Interesting.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  49. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

    Jealous of what, exactly?

    Being with someone who's clearly very easy to please.

  50. Miss my Flip Phone and Psion computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been using a smartphone for a while -- currently last years Galaxy A5 and I am getting weary of the advertising being shoved at me every time I open the thing. To say nothing of the useless applications that the vendor seems to think I cannot live without, have no use for but cannot uninstall. So periodically I get beeped to use my Samsung Pay application, or Smart-Things, or... Being retired in a rural area there are few opportunities or needs for such urban sophistication.

    Back when I was a working consultant I carried the classic Motorola flip phone and a Psion 5 in my pocket. Could do everything my current gadget does pretty much but without the tracking and the relentless advertising. And updates were rare -- so one could count on things working as expected every time I went to use them. I miss that world...

    1. Re:Miss my Flip Phone and Psion computer by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Samsung's software is shit indeed. So install an alternative rom, like LineageOS.

  51. Who is force you? by gosand · · Score: 1

    ...especially when you're force to stuff them in a case that doubles the size.

    Sorry, who is forcing you to do that?
    I have had the same phone for almost 3 years without a case and I have never broken it. It's nothing extravagant for sure - a BLU Life One X. Just be careful with your damn phone! I think having a case somehow makes people think their phone is protected so they can treat it like it's not an expensive electronic device. Cases are no guarantee of anything, my wife and daughter have both broken their phones in the last year, and both were in good cases.

    I think you are right on price creep, and I refuse to pay it! People LOVE to complain about it, then they stand in line to get the next awesome phone. It's amazing to me how much time and money people are willing to spend on keeping up with the latest phone/status symbol. As long as they are willing to do it, manufacturers have no incentive to stop charging so much.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:Who is force you? by torkus · · Score: 2

      When they build a phone with large sheets of glass on both sides, the majority of people need a case to avoid breaking it. Your anecdotal experience and obnoxious judgmental comment is not the norm. Nor is the idea that cases don't offer protection - maybe some don't but the large majority offer at least some protection.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  52. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The responses to this comment puzzle me. Somehow the idea that a woman would be interested in an improved tech product is interpreted as proof she is shallow, while men doing the exact same thing, incidentally the raison d’être of this site, is not interpreted the same way.

    But we are shallow about things that matter

  53. Expensive smartphone decline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think smartphones are still expanding but the poorer countries are buying cheap Android knockoffs not expensive Samsung, or Apple phones. Also the wealthy are smart enough not to buy a expensive smartphone and replace every year or two. Not anymore, because nothing convinces them its worth it.

  54. Decrease in growth != Smartphone decline by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

    It really irritates me that people describe falling growth as a decline.

    -Any product reaches market saturation.
    -Sales will shrink because of maximum penetration.

    Smartphones in decline isn't less unit sales being made, it would be fewer smartphones being used.

    1. Re:Decrease in growth != Smartphone decline by torkus · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you seem to have forgotten that the perspective of our corporate overlords (and their trillion dollar values) are far more important than your pesky viewpoint. Please report to the department of mental health for perspective adjustment.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    2. Re:Decrease in growth != Smartphone decline by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      yeah this happens in every market and every business. This is the point where most businesses turn evil. Without expansion fueling income growth they turn to expense reduction and turn on the employees and then product/service quality.

  55. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The raison d'etre of this site is tech. Not tech products. Tech. Most people understand that 50% of the products are worthless, and another 48% are worse-than-worthless.

    But yeah, there's probably some sexist thing going on too.

  56. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

    easy there mr. white knight, you might scuff that armor. Anyone who sees the ability to take wide angle selfies (not photos mind you, but selfies) as *THE* key feature is probably a bit on the shallow side.

    Virtue signaling? reddit's that-o-way bub,

  57. New features suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My current phone has thinner bezels than all my previous phones. It is by no means a "premium" phone in that it does still have bezels (no wrap around the edge display and no stupid notch). Yet, I find many times, especially when I play games, that my fingers holding the phone interfere with where I am trying to tap on the screen with my opposing hand.

    Stop new features when they affect usability. And by the way, I will never buy a phone with a stupid notch. That is so messed up.

  58. Hooray - we don't need 5 phones per person by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I tossed out my box of six smart phones from the last 10 years of upgrades. I expect to go down to about 25% the phone purchasing rate as the current generation is capable enough for my needs. Looks like smartphone makers innovated them right out of a job, that's progress!

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  59. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Why do we need article after article to tell us the obvious?"

    Because if we have to sit through a lot of people posting articles about the death of the PC due to it no longer having insane growth numbers, you'll have to sit through this BS about cellphones.

    In both cases, what's out there is "good enough" and lasting a lot longer than they use to.

  60. Charging more will be less profitable. by NextApp · · Score: 1

    If you're in the US, go look at new phones from your carrier (which is how everyone here buys phones).

    With the advent of $1000+ iPhones and $900 Pixels and Samsung Galaxies, the finance term has moved from 24 months to 36 months, in order to keep the payment/bill increase in the $20-$30 range. Everyone here finances their phone with their bill (not an unreasonable choice, given lack of interest charge). The finance term directly sets the replacement interval.

    What the heck were these companies thinking by increasing the price to $1000? It's as bad for the manufacturer as it is for the consumer. What's truly shocking is that with many phones we're still going be financing them past the point where they're guaranteed security updates.

  61. Mother Nature thanks smartphone manufacter's for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Thin as a wafer.
    2) No Removable Battery
    3) No FM Radio
    4) Mandatory GPS
    5) No Roots notifications now provided by Alice Merton.
    6) Alerts from President, Silver, Amber. Now accepting Diamond, Platinum, and Red Ruby customers.
    7) Your Work gets admin access
    8) Data is siphoned now from an ever larger 5G connection by any app inventor available.
    9) Direct Facebook Access.
    10) Finally, less smartphones in the landfill.

  62. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because we have a bunch of fanbois who need to pull their dick while they're doing some Apple-bashing? That's Slashdot's bread and butter. Haven't you figured that out? It's like Orwell's Two Minute Hate or a Jonestown cult who think they're free because they scream "OPEN SORES!!!!" anytime anyone says anything bad about their pocket sized god.

  63. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by fbobraga · · Score: 1

    "Easily influenced by ADs"-wife :P

  64. 4S! by antdude · · Score: 1

    I am still using an iPhone 4S! :P

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  65. Almost done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Iâ(TM)ve been in IT for 30 yrs and I appreciated and understand the siren call of tech to the lowest level. But I feel Iâ(TM)m at saturation caused by the never ending connectivity brougjt on by the smart phone. I feel I am nearly at the tipping point and believe (hope) I will probably opt out of the whole opiate-like madness once my iPhone 6 finally goes belly up. It was a good run, but I can remember the exquisite silence of the early 90s and am looking forward to disconnecting and enjoying REAL life again.

  66. Why buy the newest? by indytx · · Score: 1

    A few years ago, I purchased two phones right after they were released and they were awesome and subsidized. When it came time to replace one of them because of a malfunction--after a couple of good years--I bought . . . the same phone for a fraction of the original price. Now that the replacement phone was dropped, flat, and cracked, and I'm going to replace it with . . . the same phone for a fraction of the original price. Good memory and battery life + affordable price = WIN! It just doesn't make any sense to do anything else. Several years ago, it was "cool" to have the latest and greatest flagship phones, but no one cares anymore.

    --
    Make love, not reality television.
  67. Re:Everyone is making it more complicated than it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would say the exact same thing about a man thinking that a new shiny phone would somehow make his life fulfilled is shallow and vapid too. Really.

    Not everyone comes to /. wanting the newest shiniest thing. Some of us just come here to rant about shitheads like yourself.

  68. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good

  69. It's called maturity by TRRosen · · Score: 1

    As the tech and its market become more mature there is less change and longer effective product life thus fewer sales. This happens with everything. Eventually every market stops being driven by growth and product updates and moves more to replacement of damaged or failed items.

  70. Re:replacement is down. Total users will still go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fastest growing markets are China and India, and they are not buying $1000-$2000 phones.

    Their markets are dominated by companies like Xiaomi, OnePlus and Motorola.

    The future growth is in the Mid to Low end smartphones. The cellphone is now a commodity/necessity and people have no choice but to buy a smartphone and they will buy low cost smartphones.

    The 'fancy' cellphone has become to expensive and the 'fancy' is rubbing off.