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Scientists Have 'Hacked Photosynthesis' To Boost Crop Growth By 40 Percent (npr.org)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from NPR: There's a big molecule, a protein, inside the leaves of most plants. It's called Rubisco, which is short for an actual chemical name that's very long and hard to remember. Rubisco has one job. It picks up carbon dioxide from the air, and it uses the carbon to make sugar molecules. It gets the energy to do this from the sun. This is photosynthesis, the process by which plants use sunlight to make food, a foundation of life on Earth. "But it has what we like to call one fatal flaw," Amanda Cavanagh, a biologist and post-doctoral researcher at the University of Illinois, says. Unfortunately, Rubisco isn't picky enough about what it grabs from the air. It also picks up oxygen. "When it does that, it makes a toxic compound, so the plant has to detoxify it."

Plants have a whole complicated chemical assembly line to carry out this detoxification, and the process uses up a lot of energy. This means the plant has less energy for making leaves, or food for us. Cavanagh and her colleagues in a research program called Realizing Increased Photosynthetic Efficiency (RIPE), which is based at the University of Illinois, have spent the last five years trying to fix Rubisco's problem. "We're sort of hacking photosynthesis," she says. They experimented with tobacco plants, just because tobacco is easy to work with. They inserted some new genes into these plants, which shut down the existing detoxification assembly line and set up a new one that's way more efficient. And they created super tobacco plants. "They grew faster, and they grew up to 40 percent bigger" than normal tobacco plants, Cavanagh says. These measurements were done both in greenhouses and open-air field plots.
The scientists are trying to apply this technique to other plants, like tomatoes, soybeans, and black-eyed peas, which are a staple food crop for a lot of farmers in sub-Saharan Africa. Cavanagh and her colleagues published their work this week in the journal Science.

123 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. Call it hacking by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Call it hacking and it's good, call it GMO and it's bad.

    "This one simple trick a woman discovered in her lab!"

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Call it hacking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Call it hacking and it's good, call it GMO and it's bad.

      GMOs aren't bad, it's the modifications that are made that are bad.

      Growing faster with fewer resources = good modification.
      Able to resist being covered in increasingly caustic pesticides = bad modification.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think it also has to do with more than just that.

      When you have companies trying to manufacture seedless versions of plants to replace the normal ones to the point they can potentially replace a sizable portion of our food supply with them and making us dependent on them and a hiccup in the supply can cause massive famine in the future because of it being a potential reason.

      When you have companies making it where they can withstand major pesticides that they normally could not and they end up having to do even harder work removing it or risk exposing humans or animals to that pesticide as well, that can be a huge issue.

      When you have companies trying to make the plants manufacture their own pesticides that can be toxic to humans and animals, that can be a huge issue.

      When you have a plant manufactured to handle more varied climates and areas and being more resilient and having that accidentally released into an ecco-system that isn't prepared for it to the point it can overrun the entire area and run rampant. That can be a MASSIVELY HUGE issue.

    3. Re:Call it hacking by novakyu · · Score: 2

      He just hates Monsanto (see: Roundup).

    4. Re:Call it hacking by Daemonik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If only it were that simple. Frankly the paranoia and misinformation of liberals on the topic of GMO vs Organics is about as bad as conservatives and Global Warming.

      I've tried to explain to people that food irradiation is a safe method of preservation for instance, and been told that they don't want "radioactive" food. Explain to them that bananas are radioactive and they will, with a straight face, tell you that it's "natural" radiation so it's healthy. Try to explain that "organic" food uses some truly scary pesticides or that all foods have chemicals in them and it goes right over their heads.

      As far as GMO for Roundup goes, that stuff is expensive and nobody is out there replacing water with it like it's Brawndo. It's highly targeted spraying. However I do think that using GMO to lock seeds up behind copyrights and such is wrong. Modified life forms should be open source so we can all monitor and benefit from them equally.

    5. Re:Call it hacking by Daemonik · · Score: 2, Informative

      Able to resist being covered in increasingly caustic pesticides = bad modification.

      If they don't harm humans or the environment, is that a bad modification?

      Let's not go that far. Roundup (the most GMO targeted pesticide) is by definition a poison and does have ill effects on humans in concentration. It's all about the dose. It may also be linked to bee colony collapse, but I don't know if that's definitive. It's meant to kill insects so not really a shock if it is.

    6. Re:Call it hacking by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Informative

      If they don't harm humans or the environment, is that a bad modification?

      It is if that modification makes it easier to do so - as in Gravis Zero's example.

      Anyway I feel like science is moving towards a situation where DNA of all species currently on this planet serves as "software distribution v1.0", and where modified species are deployed at will to do some specific job. Kind of like how a carpenter picks a chisel or a hammer from his toolbox. Politics or public opinion aside, if it's technically possible & profitable, somebody will do it.

    7. Re:Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Umm, no... AFAIK, Roundup was intended to be herbicide. That is, its intended use is for killing plants/weeds (not insects). Although you may be right anyway. The State of California recognizes Roundup as a potential cancer causing product, so it's no damned good no matter what you intend to use it for.

    8. Re:Call it hacking by sjames · · Score: 1

      I must have missed a memo, which one is that that doesn't harm the environment?

    9. Re:Call it hacking by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      When you have companies trying to manufacture seedless versions of plants to replace the normal ones to the point they can potentially replace a sizable portion of our food supply with them and making us dependent on them

      RR seeds went off-patent in 2015. BT corn (maize) went off-patent in 2016.

      No other GMO crops are even close to a "sizable portion" of our food supply.

      Anyone is free to grow, save seed, whatever. Glyphosate (Roundup) is also off patent. Anyone can make it, and plenty of generics are available, even at Walmart.

      The "seedless" crops do produce seeds. What they don't produce is pollen. They use a "terminator gene" to block the spread of the genetic material. This is a GOOD THING, and it is also not used or sold anywhere because of protests by hypocritical environmentalists outraged that some of their best criticisms of GMO (pollen infecting neighboring farms, genes leaking into the wild) can be easily prevented. So instead of embracing the improvement, they fought to ban it.

    10. Re:Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, at least the researchers started this work on tobacco plants instead of food plants. It's not like the people consuming tobacco are really worried about taking up toxins, now are they?

    11. Re:Call it hacking by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Roundup (the most GMO targeted pesticide) is by definition a poison

      Roundup works by blocking a plant enzyme that does not exist in humans. So it is not "by definition" a poison to humans.

      and does have ill effects on humans in concentration. It's all about the dose.

      Sure. Distilled water also can have ill effects on humans. It's all about the dose.

      GMO crops generally reduce the need for herbicides and pesticides.

      The worst use of Roundup/glyphosate is as a crop desiccant, sprayed on green crops to dry them out shortly before harvest. This means the herbicide is on the crop as it is harvested. This is BY FAR the reason Americans are exposed to the most glyphosate. This practice is banned in many other countries.

      But guess what? It only works for crops that are NOT RR-GMO. So if you want to avoid glyphosate, don't buy any soy product that says "Non-GMO".

    12. Re: Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bullshit they should be tithing their entire r&d budget to the church. Create food and water is a low level spell and since we are discussing fantasy, we should end up with clerics long before replicators let alone warp drive.

    13. Re:Call it hacking by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No other GMO crops are even close to a "sizable portion" of our food supply.

      The vast majority of US-grown soybeans are GMO.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    14. Re:Call it hacking by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You can get raw heirloom almonds from some health food stores.

      Although you can grow them from seed, this is not how almonds are grown by farmers. Almost every fruit tree is a graft of the fruit bearing plant onto a different variety that provides hardy root stock. So, you can have almonds with the desired characteristics, and the very best roots feeding them. So, almond plants are normally from a cutting which is grafted onto a root plant which was grown from seed or from a cutting.

    15. Re:Call it hacking by mentil · · Score: 1

      There are people who listen to the guy on the radio scaremongering, and the only part of it they understand is that rich people are trying to screw over the little guy. If asked to elaborate they regurgitate keywords, but all they comprehend is their emotions association with 'bad thing'. It's not just critical thinking, it seems some people lack metacognition entirely.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    16. Re:Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You quoted "when you have companies trying to manufacture" and responded with "xxx went off patent." Does it mean that companies not trying anymore? I don't think so. So, your rebuttal is completely unrelated to the original claim.

    17. Re:Call it hacking by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      You missed the important part:

      They created a wholly new, artificial, antioxidant pathway. The gain in growth, is due to the increased efficiency of that new pathway.

    18. Re:Call it hacking by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      I'd expect the overlap between those two groups of people to be very small.
      My only problem with companies like Monsanto is when they're given a monopoly by government.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    19. Re:Call it hacking by Daemonik · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't want irradiated food because the radiation kills the plant. Dead food has far less nutritional benefits compared to fresh picked food that is still alive.

      Furthermore, if I can get non-irradiated food, I can plant the seeds and get my own copy of those plants to grow in my garden. In my opinion, THAT is the real reason why the ag industry wants to irradiate all of our food. It prevents propagation of desirable plant species, making people subservient to and reliant upon the ag industry.

      You know what? cooking food kills the plant, I don't see you advocating for all raw food, and if you are well, enjoy that salmonella. For that matter, taking a vegetable out of the ground or off it's tree/vine is slow killing it too. Which is neither here nor there because that's not how irradiation works.

      Also, hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but farmers rarely sit around peeling apart last years crop to get seeds for this year. They buy seeds from dedicated seed farms, just like the majority of people who want a garden go down to the garden shop and buy packets of seeds. You get higher quality, more consistent seeds. Just because a fruit or vegetable is raw doesn't even mean it's in it's seed baring form either.

    20. Re:Call it hacking by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      In this particular case, using a "terminator gene" might indeed be a good thing. If plants with that boosted photosynthesis get in the wild, it might give them enough of an evolutionary advantage that they spread across the world and upset the ecosystems.

      Of course, someone will probably fuck it up and let some of these escape...

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    21. Re:Call it hacking by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Which ex[plains the soy boy that thinks she just made a point.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    22. Re:Call it hacking by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The economics of tree nut farming doesnt help one bit either.

      Its profitable to start a nut grove, but the first 40 years or so (100 years in some cases.. black walnuts?) is just asset appreciation until the trees mature.

      I suspect these early nut tree groves are frequently passed around from investor to investor, as most other investments are better early on. Investors having trouble finding a place to park there money would be the ones that are holding them.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    23. Re:Call it hacking by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      It's not just critical thinking, it seems some people lack metacognition entirely.

      Hence the emergence of the NPC meme.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    24. Re:Call it hacking by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Irradiating food is a bad idea because if we live in a hyper-sterile environment our immune systems suffer.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re: Call it hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll drink the same amount of glyphosate that it takes to kill a plant. That being, a 10th of an oz sprayed over a 30 acre field.

      If you want me to drink a cup of it, then I'm going to insist you drink a cup of something safe and natural, like salt

      (if you eat that much salt, it'll kill you)

    26. Re:Call it hacking by tomxor · · Score: 2

      Able to resist being covered in increasingly caustic pesticides = bad modification.

      If they don't harm humans or the environment, is that a bad modification?

      Really?.. Yes... because it encourages the use of caustic pesticides...

      Now I need to come up with some kind of quip orthogonal to "captain fucking obvious"

    27. Re:Call it hacking by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Yawn. We have been hacking this shit for decades. CO2 bottles FTW.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    28. Re:Call it hacking by coofercat · · Score: 2

      Growing faster with fewer resources = good modification.

      Maybe. Fast grown wood (like the faster growing pines) has its uses in our modern world, but is really a pretty crappy wood. Slow grown woods like oak obviously have far more uses. Even a slow grown pine has uses in more places and doesn't have the higher cost of the really slow growing trees.

      My point here is that growing faster with fewer resources may make a plant that looks like the slower growing variety, but it may not be as useful as it appears.

      Very few markets are really based on merit. They're skewed by artificial price manipulations, lobbying and laws and wonky business practices. The food market seems a particularly difficult one because of government approvals and tariffs, grants and subsidies, trade deals and whatnot. That means "the best" may not be what you can buy, even if you want to spend more to get it.

    29. Re:Call it hacking by dasunt · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, if I can get non-irradiated food, I can plant the seeds and get my own copy of those plants to grow in my garden.

      For many plants, you'd get an F2 hybrid, which won't be a copy of the plant the seed is from.

      You need to have heirloom varieties, grown in isolation, to get a plant that produces seeds which will be the same variety.

    30. Re:Call it hacking by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nature is great, but it's not perfect. Not every improvement can be attempted by nature. Perhaps this new pathway was attempted by natural selection, but the partial pathway (as it wouldn't spring up completely finished in nature) didn't give enough of an improvement to be worthwhile. Or perhaps the partial path had a hidden cost that made it less able to compete. A cost that is overcome by the full pathway, but one that prevented natural selection from going down that road.

      Man has been artificially changing plants for thousands of years. Do you think apples looked like they do in the supermarket before man got his hands on them?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    31. Re:Call it hacking by dasunt · · Score: 1

      Monsanto/Bayer lost a major court case against them for roundup causing cancer in a groundskeeper. Now tons of new lawsuits are going up in light of that one. Ignore the warnings at your own risk.

      And according to the law, the tomato is not a fruit. Biologically, the tomato is a fruit.

      The law and science are two different things. Sometimes in agreement, sometimes not.

    32. Re:Call it hacking by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 3, Informative

      Roundup works by blocking a plant enzyme that does not exist in humans. So it is not "by definition" a poison to humans

      Two huge flaws in your argument.

      1. We are symbiotic with our microbiome, much of which does have the shikimate pathway targeted by glyphosate. Therefore, it most assuredly, and emphatically, is a poison to humans, if we consume it in sufficient amounts to affect the microbiome. This is no longer even debatable or disputable. The ONLY question at this point is to what extent.

      2. Roundup does not consist solely of glyphosate. It contains other ingredients which increase both its effectiveness in its intended use, and also its toxicity, since what kills our microbiome more efficiently kills us more efficiently as well.

    33. Re:Call it hacking by clodney · · Score: 1

      Able to resist being covered in increasingly caustic pesticides = bad modification.

      If they don't harm humans or the environment, is that a bad modification?

      Can you enumerate all of the unanticipated side effects? Didn’t think so.

      By definition unanticipated side effects can't be enumerated, but that is true with almost any sort of research. What are the unanticipated side effects of the internet and social media? Are they net positive or negative? But do we seriously consider the risks of any new technology or development on a routine basis?

      I do admit that invasive species are a real problem, and once they escape into the wild there is often no containing them. And the risks absolutely need to be considered. But if plants can grow 40% more food for the same inputs, you need to consider the benefits as well as the risks. Consider the efforts to create a gene drive to attack mosquito species that carry malaria. Yes, it is a risky thing, but 400K people a year die from malaria. So consider the potential benefits as well as the risks.

    34. Re:Call it hacking by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Big exaggeration on the black walnuts. It's about 30 years.

    35. Re:Call it hacking by clodney · · Score: 1

      Have you looked at a map showing the location of release of genetically modified mosquitoes overlaid with Zika Virus breakouts?

      A quick google search didn't come up with anything obvious. Got a link?

    36. Re:Call it hacking by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Far easier and safer is to not hyper clean the surrounding environ. Small clue - in the 1800's there was no irradiation and no "hyper-sterile environment" and people died like crazy from disease (immune system failure) in far, far greater numbers than they do now. It's not so much cleaning up the food delivery chain as it is promoting that every surface in our environment needs to be swabbed constantly that's the problem.

    37. Re:Call it hacking by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      My only problem with companies like Monsanto is when they're given a monopoly by government.

      Monopoly on what? The only thing that Monsanto makes that most people know about are RoundUp and RoundUp Ready crops. They don't have a monopoly on glyphosate (RoundUp) and their RoundUp Ready crops compete with other herbicide resistant crops.

      Sure, they get patent protection on their genetic technology but that expires. The first RoundUp Ready crops will go generic in a year or so.

    38. Re:Call it hacking by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      Call it hacking and it's good, call it GMO and it's bad.

      GMOs aren't bad, it's the modifications that are made that are bad.

      Growing faster with fewer resources = good modification. Able to resist being covered in increasingly caustic pesticides = bad modification.

      It's generally the undiscovered side effects of GMO that people are afraid of. People aren't used to getting something for free, that's not how the world typically works. Therefore any improvements from GMO makes them concerned about what they are giving up. People in this discussion are already talking about that.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    39. Re:Call it hacking by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Or maybe the toxin purge mechanism has other uses, like healing from injury or removing toxins from pests.

    40. Re:Call it hacking by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      The biggest issue with GMO isn't the genetic modification or the science behind it, it's the practices of the companies that use it that get shown to be against the best interest of humanity far too often. With great power comes great responsibility.

    41. Re:Call it hacking by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      The abstract gives more information:

      The pathway that was the most effective was a hybrid construct "used plant malate synthase and a green algal glycolate dehydrogenase"

      In other words, the components WERE produced by natural selection, but the combination does not occur in nature, and is novel in its efficacy.

      Full knockout of the endogenous pathway should remove the need for the RNAi used to keep that pathway suppressed, and should result in the >40% biomass increase across the board.

    42. Re: Call it hacking by houghi · · Score: 1

      First solve the copyright issue. After that I am willing to discuss the health issue.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    43. Re:Call it hacking by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      1) The Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects that.

    44. Re:Call it hacking by malkavian · · Score: 1

      Yes, the lost it because the jury didn't understand the science behind it, and the fact that weaker studies said "there may be a link", while the strongest forms of study say "there's no detectable link".

    45. Re:Call it hacking by malkavian · · Score: 1

      Never, ever eat anything with table salt on it, as that kills plants very effectively.
      Never, ever use vinegar on anything, as again, that's used as an organic herbicide, and has vastly more toxic effects than roundup in the doses applied in agriculture.
      In fact, never, ever ingest anything. Never use antibiotics, because, well.. The damage you do.
      The dose makes the poison, and by the time it reaches place, it is well below the No Observable Effect limits to human physiology. Affecting the gut microbiome to adversely affect the host would be an observable effect.
      And as the limits on concentration allowed in food is a small fraction of a percentage of the No Observable Effect dose, you'd probably literally explode by packing the quantities you'd need into your body (the sheer volume of food would either kill you, or force you to admit defeat at the very least).

    46. Re:Call it hacking by malkavian · · Score: 1

      When you harvest the plant, you kill it. Your food is dead. Usually by the time you get it, very dead.
      What largely degrades the nutrition is a combination of oxidation and bacterial decomposition. Yes, irradiation does break some molecules apart (that's what kills all the harmful stuff), but mostly into fragments that cooking will do the same to. The parts that are created purely by ionization are also found naturally, as guess what.. Ionizing radiation exists in nature.

      If you want to grow your own, buy some seeds. That way you can get a lovely variety of food that you often don't see grown in commercial enterprises. That's what I do. The agricultural industry doesn't give a single crap about people growing their own (and the commercial farmers I know actively help and give growing tips to people who bother to talk to them). So that pretty much says you're talking out of your derriere again.

    47. Re:Call it hacking by malkavian · · Score: 1

      Such as what practices? Apart from accounting wrangles and the like?

    48. Re:Call it hacking by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      > soybeans are a small portion of the food supply and we don't need them anyway.

      and that's why billions are being paid out in subsidies to the soybean farmers this year as a result of the trade war blowback. Maybe instead of throwing dollars at rotting crops someone should take some of that money and figure out things to do with the crops?

    49. Re:Call it hacking by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Eating raw food is inhumane. Being cooked is much preferable to waiting around slowly dying, then being ingested, chewed, and slowly digested.

    50. Re:Call it hacking by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Indeed, growing them from seed usually results in bitter almond crops (but beautiful trees). Sometimes they are grafted on to peach trees.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    51. Re:Call it hacking by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Almonds start producing fruit after 3 years or so. By age 15 or 20 you start thinking about putting in a new set of trees.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    52. Re:Call it hacking by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Cyanide is not something to fool around with.

    53. Re:Call it hacking by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      In the case of the Gros Michel and its relatives there is no alternative, the closest thing left to a seed in the plant is a streak of color. There are lots of banana varieties with viable seeds, but you probably don't want to eat them.

    54. Re:Call it hacking by butchersong · · Score: 1

      The area of Brazil in which Zika originated was near the same location where they were experimenting with the modified bugs. Radiolab did a series on this a while back https://www.wnycstudios.org/st... ... not that I think there is a causal link

    55. Re:Call it hacking by sjames · · Score: 1

      Don't pawn all that off on liberals. I'm fine with irradiation and sterile packaging for food and medical supplies.

      I don't believe that GM techniques are somehow intrinsically bad, I just don't believe that the corporations developing them are at all angelic or infallible. That is, if there is a corner to cut, they will cut it and externalize the risks.

      For example, will the work in TFA result in food with less anti-oxidants or more things toxic to humans (but not necessarily the plants). Perhaps, perhaps not. Will the seed producers scrupulously test for that? Hell no, that costs money. If we find out later that it is a problem, will they have carefully contained the new varieties such that they can be removed from the food supply without a huge public expenditure? I doubt it. See this.

      Highly targeted spraying isn't the same as light use.

      Fully agreed, seeds should not be subject to patent or copyright. That has already been abused and the plaintiffs have already gotten away with too many lies in court to the detriment of everyone else.

    56. Re:Call it hacking by sjames · · Score: 1

      Prohibition of seed saving, copyright/patent suits against others when the trait hybridizes with other varieties, fooling courts into finding in their favor only to have their assertions disproved after it's too late, Harassment of farmers who choose not to grow their modified varieties.

    57. Re: Call it hacking by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      I can post links too:

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/cancer-council-calls-for-review-amid-roundup-cancer-concerns/10337806

      https://phys.org/news/2018-07-experts-testify-roundup-linked-cancer.html

      https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/10/health/monsanto-johnson-trial-verdict/index.html

    58. Re:Call it hacking by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      Let's see... Former plants used to create anti-oxidants to detoxify themselves from the harmful affects of O2. Then somebody modifies the plants so they don't waste energy detoxifying itself... Yeah, I see no problems with making this modification to the world's food supplies whatsoever. So what if the resulting plants are a bit more toxic than you used to have? It grows 40% faster and bigger, so we can expect increased profits biggly. This is gonna to be HUGE!

      Yeah, because you have any idea of what's going on. If you read the fucking summary it said that the plants have to detoxify themselves AFTER using an oxygen molecule instead of a carbon dioxide molecule (apparently the plants aren't selective enough).. They modified the plant so it WILL NOT use oxygen and will, instead, use ONLY carbon dioxide.. This negates the need to detoxify itself. No oxygen use = no need for detoxification.

      Do I need to draw it in crayon?

    59. Re:Call it hacking by jpaine619 · · Score: 2

      If it were really possible to increase the efficiency this much without any downsides, nature probably would have already stumbled upon it after all these billions of years. After all, a plant that can grow 40% bigger and faster than its predecessors would totally out compete and annihilate other plants vying for the same resources.

      Right... Prior to humans, wheat had really tiny seeds (in comparison to what we have today). We selectively bred wheat to have large kernels (more output per acre that way).. You see anyone dying from the runaway wheat? Is there anything that doesn't scare the shit out of you fucking luddites?

  2. Precautionary Principle by js290 · · Score: 1

    Show him the site with computational complexityhttps://t.co/QFl1hYKOeV

    — Nassim Nicholas Taleb (@nntaleb) January 4, 2019

    --
    "Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
  3. Re: preliminary findings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're assuming a random sequence of mutation has had time to randomly find this by chance. Once found natural selection will ensure its success. The selection does not find the mutation.

  4. Algae farms by Vanyle · · Score: 2

    It would be great if we could put this to use in something for generating bio-fuels.

    1. Re:Algae farms by Daemonik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately it will probably work out that rather than produce more food, which will subsequently lower food prices, they'll devote more land to growing high starch corn for bio-fuel.

      Bio-fuel is a nice idea, but currently there are too many down sides and loopholes to relying on it that most people don't consider. It's like how paper mills have used black liquor, a byproduct of paper production, for decades as fuel in the plants. Then they mixed in a gallon of diesel, called it 'biofuel' and raked in billions from biofuel subsidies.

    2. Re:Algae farms by codeButcher · · Score: 2

      It would be great if we could put this to use in something for generating bio-fuels.

      Unfortunately it will probably work out that rather than produce more food, which will subsequently lower food prices, they'll devote more land to growing high starch corn for bio-fuel.

      The good and bad news for both of you is that corn is one of the plants that already uses the more-efficient C4 pathway...

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    3. Re:Algae farms by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      Miscanthus Gigantus is another C4 photosynthesizer which, last I knew*, was being used for fuel biomass. It can grow where corn might not do well and it's a perennial so no need to til and seed a field every year.

      *: It's been a few years since I looked at it.

  5. Re:preliminary findings by Vanyle · · Score: 1

    Agreed, Plants have a long history. If we can create so many complicated organs and functions, i would assume they would have developed more. Watch all the plants die when O2 spikes after we get rid of the carbon dioxide in the air.

  6. Re:LOL by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    Probably invented Tomacco. The Simpson's will be suing them for copyright violation.

  7. Photosynthesis is complex by aberglas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is a light dependent reaction that creates ATP, which is the energy source for the light independent Calvin cycle which actually reduces CO2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    I am not sure what they have hacked, but it is more complex than the summary suggests. And it would be an amazing achievement to be able to improve a system perfected by 4 billion years of evolution without any down side. I suspect there is a downside, maybe a need for more water etc.

    Well done anyway, if true.

    1. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by belg4mit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Evolution hasn't perfected anything,* it is a fundamentally conservative process circuit-bending existing hardware and occasionally developing something new. If changes help, they spread, if they hurt, their prevalence diminishes but rarely to zero, and if they're neutral they persist as well. Hardly the features of something that's guaranteed to make the best thing possible, but rather, like many software developers, something that's just good enough :-P

      * A standard example being laryngeal nerves in giraffes.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    2. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They have not perfected the normal pathway, where a CO2 molecule is capured. What they have done is improve how plants cope with the undesired reaction, where a O2 molecule is captured instead, producing a toxic compound. Plants naturally have mechanisms to handle this compound, that are good enough for their purposes. What these guys have proved is that we can hack it to make it better for our purposes.

    3. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      If the change they've made is so simple then by the laws of probability natural selection would have come up with something similar by now given how absolutely vital and common this enzyme is since the selectve advantages would have been huge.

      Like the OP I suspect it has a downside and probably did evolve perhaps even multiple times but got weeded out for some reason.

    4. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by dasunt · · Score: 1

      I am not sure what they have hacked, but it is more complex than the summary suggests.

      Could this be a C3 -> C4 pathway hack? Some plants rely on the C3 pathway to produce energy. Other plants rely on the C4 pathway. The C4 pathway is more efficient, and there's research to put the C4 pathway into C3 plants.

    5. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      They actually hacked the oxygen removal pathway. Apparently within respiration, plants pull in something like 30% O2 rather than CO2, and have to spit that back out. Plants turn CO2 into O2 by photosynthesis, and accidentally pulling in O2 instead is a waste of energy since it's not the feedstock of photosynthesis.

      What they did was hack an enzyme which is involved in purging O2, making that process far more efficient. Now when the plant pulls in O2 by accident, it can very efficiently purge that and try again for some CO2.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    6. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by grimr · · Score: 1

      They're talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... which is used in the Calvin cycle when it grabs CO2.

      But when it grabs O2 it makes some toxic compounds. The plant spends a lot of energy on detoxifying these compounds. From what they said in the article they hacked out this detoxifying system and put in a more efficient detoxifying system which uses less energy. That extra energy is not used to make the plant grow faster and bigger.

    7. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by grimr · · Score: 1

      That last sentence should read: That extra energy is now used to make the plant grow faster and bigger.

    8. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 1
      It's frustrating (but not entirely surprising) that Evolution, which is a great example of statistical probability in real-world action, is fundamentally misunderstood by so many people. Evolution != Design. Sure, it came up with some great solutions, but it also drug a bunch of (effectively) useless baggage along for the ride because the mutation didn't happen to reduce survival and reproduction in a particular environment.

      Literally the first comment I can see to you completely misinterprets how probability and natural selection work to argue your point. I feel your pain.

      --
      Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
    9. Re:Photosynthesis is complex by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Citation needed. Specifically, why would there be ANY selective advantage? A tree standing in the sun all day most likely has no need for the extra energy. A plant has to produce enough foliage to gather enough energy to feed its trunk and roots, with enough left over to store around its seeds to give them a start on germination. Is there an advantage in a more efficient cycle that is not easily overcome with a slightly large leaf? How does that advantage stand with respect to the other survival requirements placed on the plant?

      Mandatory car analogy: Does it help to upgrade to a bigger engine when you're still running WalMart tires through a GM transmission?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  8. 4 billion years of evolution doesn't necessarilly by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    make the best thing. It makes the most successful thing among other things, but that's not "best". Ever wonder why we get scurvy? We have a defective gene that prevents us from making Vitamin C. We compensated in other ways, but that doesn't mean we're the "best", just better than the alternatives.

    Same deal here. Think of all the energy wasted out there and imagine if we didn't waste it. Look at bananas. They start out barely edible and end up as convenient as anything you'd buy in a plastic bag.

    Now, there are potential downsides to a mono-culture, but then if we can tweak genes at will we don't have to have a mono-culture, do we?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  9. Re:preliminary findings by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are two reasons why you're wrong:

    1. Mutation can miss many optimal routes due it it being overwhelmingly a minor step-by-step process rather than a massive leap. Evolution works as relative competition against others. If no one has this change, you don't have to compete against it. And if they have to literally replace the entire system with another, chance of evolution developing it is not all that high. This is because developing such a system as a random sequence of mutations would be a very costly thing, while having to maintain the old system until the new one is fully evolved.

    2. The mutation might actually have significant long term weakening of the plant itself against some competition, where it would need cultivation by another much more powerful species to make it an evolutionary winner. I.e. agriculture.

  10. And here it is by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Informative

    I find it a bit amusing that you proceeded to ALSO not give us the actual name despite complaint...

    It is:

    Ribulose-1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase/oxygenase

    I agree, it was not THAT long. Probably whatever grammar checker system they had refused to let it pass. Or like you say he was just lazy and thought all his readers were morons. Either way, not a good look.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:And here it is by mentil · · Score: 1

      Just curious, how does one pronounce that?
      'Ribulose one comma five bisphosphate carboxylase slash oxygenase'?
      Or are the comma and/or slash silent?

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    2. Re:And here it is by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I don't know the actual answer (how you would say the whole thing to sound normal to someone who worked with names like that), but I like to imagine the "," is pronounced by the same clicks the Xhosa use as part of everyday speech in South Africa...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  11. Re:very long and hard to remember by dinfinity · · Score: 1

    The worst thing is that it's actually not even that long:
    "Ribulose-1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase/oxygenase, commonly known by the abbreviations Rubisco or rubisco [1], RuBPCase, or RuBPco" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... )

    Deoxyribonucleic acid isn't that much shorter and pretty much every high schooler who learned about genetics has at least heard it once.

  12. Re:preliminary findings by zilym · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some plants HAVE evolved ways of improving CO2 capture. It's just that the vast majority of the food crops people desire to eat are still using the old mechanism. Do some research on C3 vs. C4 and CAM photosythesis. Corn is one of the few food crops that uses the newer C4 photosynthesis engine. Corn's productivity is likely one reason why pretty much all of our cheap junk food today contains corn in some form or another.

  13. Irony by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    ... shut down the existing detoxification assembly line and set up a new one that's way more efficient. And they created super tobacco plants.

    They made the detoxifying process way more efficient and made super tobacco, which is probably more toxic.
    Wonder if smoking it will give you super cancer?

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Due to this great accomplishment the team have earned cigars.

  14. Jurassic Corn by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    ..."It hops & pops because you put frog & chili DNA in it? Jeez!"

  15. Re:What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by zilym · · Score: 1

    Plants don't use up oxygen. They re-generate oxygen from carbon dioxide... And they typically don't use nitrogen from the air, although some plants (peas, peanuts, etc) symbiotically live with bacteria that pull nitrogen from the air.

  16. Re:preliminary findings by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Some plants HAVE evolved ways of improving CO2 capture.

    The evolution of the C4 pathway happened in grasses, and they spread around the world about 6-7 million years ago. Tropical savanna replaced woodland in Africa, as the grasses outcompeted forests via more efficient photosynthesis. Hominids moved out of the forest into the expanding savanna, learning to walk upright, freeing up their hands to use tools.

    The C4 pathway also meant plants could pull more CO2 out of the atmosphere, lowering global temperatures. The spread of C4-capable grasses may have been the main trigger for the ice ages.

    Corn is one of the few food crops that uses the newer C4 photosynthesis engine.

    Another big C4 crop is sugar cane. Millet and sorghum are also C4.

  17. Misleading title by kreedin · · Score: 1

    Is it too much to ask that the title matches the description of the article? "Scientists hack photosynthesis" ... yet in the very same description: "Plants have a whole complicated chemical assembly line to carry out this detoxification, and the process uses up a lot of energy. This means the plant has less energy for making leaves, or food for us. Cavanagh and her colleagues in a research program called Realizing Increased Photosynthetic Efficiency (RIPE), which is based at the University of Illinois, have spent the last five years trying to fix Rubisco's problem. "We're sort of hacking photosynthesis," she says". So they hacked a downstream process not photosynthesis. This type of sloppy journalism is what is making me loose all faith in this profession. Either read what you wrote or don't even bother. Thanks

    1. Re:Misleading title by gtall · · Score: 1

      NPR reported it correctly.

    2. Re:Misleading title by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      This type of sloppy journalism is what is making me loose all faith in this profession.

      Doctor, heal thyself.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  18. Re:4 billion years of evolution doesn't necessaril by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In the case of vitamin C, we are missing a single nucleic acid pair that would render it functional and we could produce our own vitamin C. Our distant ancestral species had this functionality and it was lost along the way. No big deal because of our diet.

  19. Re:preliminary findings by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    I was under the impression that the evolution of C4 was the result of falling CO2 levels, not the cause. And as anyone can see, a grassland has far less biomass per given area than a forest so they're hardly a great carbon sink.

  20. Re:preliminary findings by Luckyo · · Score: 1, Funny

    Still not calling you back after fucking you in the ass for your science denial in that thread several months ago. No matter how desperately you stalk me on slashdot.

  21. Let's make some new invasive species! by nichogenius · · Score: 1

    So one problem that comes up here is that giving a plant species such a powerful advantage will change where it can and can't grow. Plants that can't typically grow wild in a region could easily become a noxious weed if they have a +40% resource bonus. Sure, it's great for any organisms that are above these new plants in the food chain, but not great for species being displaced and the organisms that depend on them for survival. Normally I'm all for GMOs, but this one scares me a bit.

  22. Re:What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    Plants respire at night using up O2 which more or less balances with what they release in the day. Back to school for you.

  23. So, I google a bit... by Dmitri_Yuriescu · · Score: 1

    Nitrate assimilation in plant shoots depends on photorespiration "nitrate assimilation in both dicotyledonous and monocotyledonous species depends on photorespiration. ... raises concerns about genetic manipulations to diminish photorespiration in crops. ... Extensive efforts to increase the specificity of Rubisco for CO2 relative to O2 and thereby increase the productivity of C3 crops have proved unsuccessful (5). Our results indicate that such efforts might have hitherto unforeseen consequences: in agricultural systems where NO3- is the dominant form of inorganic nitrogen, minimizing photorespiration may be associated with nitrogen deprivation." Now, the new result isn't "minimizing photorespiration", it's exchanging the procedure entirely. How will this affect the plant's ability to uptake nitrogen? The articles does not address this question. Do they avoid describing the manner in which their test plants were fertilized?

  24. Re:preliminary findings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thanks for this insight, P and GP.

    *This* (and the whole IP argument) is what's worrisome about GMO, not that we're doing research on it, or putting some targeted beneficial things into existing crops (e.g. Golden Rice). Do we have the ability, capability and *will* to control these artificial interventions if they manage to spread out into the wild and do damage? I don't think we do. I mean, what's our track record on introducing foreign species into relatively closed ecosystems? No need to even engineer anything to fuck something up.

    That's why GMO needs a very nuanced and conservative approach (no, not a ban, either). Otherwise it'll just be another problem for future generations to sort out, like nuclear waste. We don't need any more "screw what comes after if I can make a buck today, right?" mentality.

  25. Re: What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    https://www.pthorticulture.com...
    http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/ge...

    Do yourself a favour and get an education sometime.

  26. Other applications.. by e3m4n · · Score: 1

    So taking the Frankenstein Food aspect off the table, what sbout using this same technique to scrub CO2 out of the air? If it uses thess resources to detoxify then it stands to reason that all that reclaimed energy could go into plant growth. Re-seeding the rain forest (our biggest counter to CO2 levels) could take less time if this were to be applied to those species. One thing to be on the alert for is to ensure we are not creating new invasive species. 40% efficiency boosts can also mean sustainability in normally hostile environments. Perhaps a potential need for lunar or martian food crops?

  27. Re:GMO to get FOOD by sabbede · · Score: 1
  28. Re:What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by zilym · · Score: 1

    Yes, plants use a little O2 at night, but that does NOT balance out with the O2 they liberated from CO2 during the day.

    You're forgetting that as a plant grows, a large portion of the carbon taken from the air is locked up in its biomass. You won't get the balance in O2 consumption you seek until the plant's biomass has been fully decomposed away. And technically speaking, decomposition is not something that the plants do, that's the job of animals, insects, bacteria, and fungi that are eating the plants.

  29. Re:very long and hard to remember by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 1

    I thought the same thing, but then I saw the name:
    Ribulose-1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase/oxygenase

    Commonly known by the abbreviations Rubisco or rubisco, RuBPCase, or RuBPco,

    Essentially, unlike something complex-but-used like CRISPR/DNA/CAMphotosynthesis, even the scientists who study it don't use the full name.

  30. Wait for it; wait for it by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    Nature is not an idiot that is going to be fixed by mankind. If she uses the original inefficient detox process it may be for a reason. Probably is. Evolution would have selected bigger, faster long ago. So, wait for why it fails or doesn't do what they want exactly. Is the bigger, faster even eatable?

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:Wait for it; wait for it by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "Nature is not an idiot" Nature is not intelligent in any form, brilliant or idiotic. Don't project attributes.

      "it may be for a reason" It is. Nature doesn't scrap out an entire complicated process to 'try again'. That's part of that projection I mentioned.

    2. Re:Wait for it; wait for it by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      It is a simplification of a complex thing for reason of conversation. Try to keep up.

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
    3. Re:Wait for it; wait for it by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      There are very few animals for which wheels would be an advantage, due to the fact that most of the surface of the earth is not hard and relatively smooth. Also, there are technical difficulties: how do you nourish a living wheel, so that it can grow and self-repair?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  31. Re:preliminary findings by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    The spread of C4-capable grasses may have been the main trigger for the ice ages.

    No. Ice ages go back way before grasses.

  32. Look closer by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    So when will we start seeing one of the benefits of scientific research?

    New 40% cigarettes! (Same as 2% milk that came from non-fat cows)

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  33. Re:What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    Yeow. Back to school with you, sir. If what you say were true, animals would deplete the O2 and we'd all be dead.

  34. Re: What if they (plants) use up all the oxygen? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    Neither of those links support your assertion that at night plants consume all (or even most) of the O2 they produce during the day ("more or less balances with what they release in the day").

  35. And in other news... by Miles_O'Toole · · Score: 1

    Justin Trudeau noted that Canada's primary interest in this technology would have nothing whatsoever to do with tobacco.

    --
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
  36. Re: preliminary findings by Shotgun · · Score: 2

    There is also an assumption that being 40% larger is an ecological benefit.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  37. Re:preliminary findings by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    grassland has far less biomass per given area than a forest

    Grasslands have far more carbon in the soil than forests.

    Grasslands can grow in arid regions that don't have enough rainfall to support forests.

  38. Re: preliminary findings by malkavian · · Score: 2

    Species generally don't give a crap about ecology. They do what's in the interests of their species. Plants evolve traits that give them the best shot at the environment they grow in. Animals do exactly the same.
    Every single species on the planet affects the ecology in some way, just humans have found a way to affect it the most.
    If you get a 40% increase in biomass for the same investment in various pesticides, herbicides and general land use, you can either increase your production (if there's a market for it), or decrease the rate at which new land is required to maintain food production for the population (allowing the 'natural' ecosystems to last longer).
    So I'd say there's a definitely ecological benefit.

  39. Re:preliminary findings by Luckyo · · Score: 2

    Then you should take off the "I don't understand this argument because you're an idiot" glasses and put the "I don't understand this argument because I'm an idiot" ones.

    Because you need not look beyond human gestation process to see exactly what I was talking about here. There's a clear cut evolutionary reason why the process of development effectively starts humans as fish with gills, that get apoptized as we slowly progress to something that resembles a mammal. Evolution does not build new systems as a matter of rule, and exceptions to this are extremely rare. It instead adds to existing ones, which is why humans still contain the genetic code to begin gestating as a fish.

    The system being talked about here is a completely new system that would entirely replace the old one. Evolution is very bad at generating such systems.

  40. Yeah. Humans need to be more careful by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    So a twice as efficient hacked-plant gets loose in the external environment. Probably takes over the whole niche and spreads globally, because, you know, more efficient more survival probability.
    But then it turns out the hack led to another unanticipated weakness in the plant species's long term prospects, e.g. vulnerability to a lethal viral infection.
    So the "smart replacement" plant gets wiped out globally.
    When you are hacking genomes, you could be hacking whole global-scale ecosystems. Your safety protocols better reflect that. And they never do.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  41. Re:Fundamental Problem: Too Many People by butchersong · · Score: 1

    If there is such an agenda why are we currently boosting population growth in Africa? Without western aid the population would be a fraction of what we will make it in 20-50 years.

  42. Re:preliminary findings by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    >C4 overcomes the tendency of the enzyme RuBisCO

    Ah. RuBisCo fold. Brings back the memories from the 90s

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  43. I surely couldn't be... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    ...that the plants produce the toxin because it provides them with an evolutionary advantage against predators. Nope.

  44. Re: preliminary findings by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    Thank you for responding, but that is a benefit to humans for changing the plant. The original question was why hasn't nature found this innovation on its own over millions of years of evolution. My posit was that there was not benefit to the PLANT in being 40% larger.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba