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Tesla Model 3 Is Heading To Europe (bloomberg.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the green-light dept.

The Tesla Model 3 has cleared its last regulatory hurdle in Europe and will soon go on sale in the continent home to Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. "Deliveries should start in February for the Long Range Battery version of the midsize sedan -- the same variant first sold in the U.S. -- according to Tesla, after Dutch vehicle authority RDW issued the OK," reports Bloomberg. From the report: The European launch is crucial for Tesla as it navigates what Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk called a "very difficult" road ahead. The company is cutting jobs so it can profitably deliver lower-priced versions of the Model 3, Tesla's first car targeted for the mass market. Musk has pointed to sales of the sedan in Europe and China as a main reason he isn't concerned about any potential setback caused by a halving of the U.S. federal tax credit, to $3,750, on Tesla purchases as of Jan. 1.

With the Model 3, Tesla also has an opportunity to broaden its attack on the premium car market dominated by Germany's BMW AG, Daimler AG-owned Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen AG's Audi. Tesla, based in Palo Alto, California, said in its third-quarter shareholder letter that "the midsized premium sedan market in Europe is more than twice as big as the same segment in the U.S." The Model 3 became the top-selling luxury car there last year, outstripping the Audi Q5, BMW 3 Series and other well-known models. Analysts and industry executives, however, have observed that competition with Tesla cuts across traditional categories.

82 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    I don't know where he plans to get the cars, but I'd get them from the plant to be built in China, since they're already buying Chinese cars in Europe. Slide a few over there now to high-profile (celebrity) customers, and then fill the demand later.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's a good plan with one minor fault - there is no plant in China.

  3. Re:T-Minus 2 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Do you even know what "an anti-trust suit" is? Apparently not.

  4. Production problems??? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Tesla solved the production problems, and has a lot of money rolling in. Now is the IDEAL time to roll into Europe, to rapidly reproduce the manufacturing they've managed to put into place in the U.S, and to get pre-orders and then sales started in Europe well before any of the traditional auto-makers can catch up.

    --
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    1. Re: Production problems??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well we have established that you are long Tesla stock.

    2. Re: Production problems??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And we have established that you are short on Tesla stock.

    3. Re:Production problems??? by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      ..ideal time? lots of money rolling in? solved all problems?

      yet the ceo is saying that there are hard times ahead and cuts to costs absolutely have to be done with no other choice.

      thing is, he is hoping he can get higher margin in europe from the cars(the price difference being much higher in many countries there towards favoring electric vehicles than in USA due to emissions based taxing).

      basically normal cars are so cheaply taxed in usa it's a wonder anyone is buying teslas, frankly.

      but say, take a typical car that costs 60k in usa and a 60k tesla - in europe in many countries you're looking at paying 100k for that 60k in usa car while the 60k tesla is still 60k. ....and speaking of traditional manufacturers they got lines ready to roll as soon as there's demand and the pricepoint is right.

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      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re: Production problems??? by Rei · · Score: 2

      Holy fuck, when did Tesla increase its employees by 30% last year?

      It was mentioned in the very email that announced the 7% downsizing, for starters. Or if you want lots of links documenting the hiring, here's the hiring spree they went on after their Q2 layoff last year, here's the rate of growth at GF1 alone, etc.

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      Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
    5. Re:Production problems??? by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tesla has long stated that it plans to pay off the bonds in cash. Their FCF in Q3 alone was nearly as much as the value of the bonds. It's a total non-issue.

      --
      Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
    6. Re:Production problems??? by segedunum · · Score: 1

      With a tent, and creating maintenance problems that now need to be fixed in the field.

    7. Re:Production problems??? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      What kind of parallel rich boy universe do you live in where a typical car costs 60k??

    8. Re:Production problems??? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      A trickle of the most expensive Model 3s will be available in Europe this year. They haven't announced a date for the affordable one even for the US yet.

      Meanwhile other manufacturers are already there. Nissan just revealed the 60kWh Leaf, Hyundai Kona sales have been going since last year, Kia are taking orders for April delivery on the eNiro and also have a new long range Soul due this year. Most are cheaper than even the short range Model 3.

      This is all good of course, competition and more vehicles, but really the Model 3 at the current price and availability in Europe is more of a competitor with future high end cars. Maybe a new BMW i3, or perhaps the VW ID but they are saying that will be a lot cheaper. Maybe the Audi eTron or Jaguar iPace. The iPace is already available.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Production problems??? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      "[A] typical car that costs 60k" means a typical car from the set of cars that cost $60k; it doesn't mean that typical cars cost $60k.

      In Slashdot terms, it's "typical (car that costs $60k)", not "(typical car) that costs $60k".

  5. Re:Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech by slashdice · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but 2 minutes * 4 times a day * 7 days a week is only 1 hour of battery time.

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  6. Re:Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech by slashdice · · Score: 1

    ... and all it shows is tentacle rape and pixelated vaginas.

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  7. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    He's basically supplied most of the higher trim orders of the car to USA customers already. So now he's going to the other large markets. So they can supply most of the higher trim orders there too. Only after the per unit production costs go down more will they start actually delivering the base models.

  8. Re:T-Minus 2 years by tsa · · Score: 1

    What an absurd load of bullshit.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  9. No sure about EU demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure if the demand in Europe is that high as in USA. >58.000 Euros (currently cheapest version available) is a lot of money for heavily taxed european incomes.

    My local Tesla store confirmed to me last week that if I order now (without a reservation) the delivery will be first half of March 2019.
    (Beginning December 2018 they were claiming a 'not before November 2019' due to high demand.)

    On the other hand Europeans tend to testdrive their cars before they buy. Maybe orders will pick-up when demo vehicles are available for testdrives.

    1. Re:No sure about EU demand. by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      I did already have the opportunity to test drive a Tesla here in Belgium and liked it even if it was too short to my liking (couln't test lane keeping feature).
      But at 58.800 Euros (chepeast in Belgium), I will pass :( At 35.000 Euros I could think about it and compare with what other automakers will have at that time (ie: If they get their 35.000 version before the other automakers get their fingers out of their collective arses, Tesla will have my money !)

    2. Re:No sure about EU demand. by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      It's less about taxation and much more about culture in most countries being very different when it comes to showing off. In many countries, it's frowned upon to show off your wealth in extravagant ways.

      Tesla is perfect for this, because it's much less of a "look at this bling bling I have" and more about "I care about the environment" which is currently very much in vogue with both the youth and the middle aged people.

    3. Re: No sure about EU demand. by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Heavily taxed Europeans still manage to afford expensive cars. I've seen quite a few Model S and X about already in the UK.

    4. Re:No sure about EU demand. by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      And yet, they're selling quite well in wealthier regions of ETA.

    5. Re: No sure about EU demand. by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      This is getting utterly dumb. I make my argument, your "friend" attempts to debunk it and fails because he failed to read and comprehend it. I point out this failure, and now you come and show the exact same problem - you didn't bother to read and comprehend what I wrote. Because you confirmed it, while loudly pronouncing your supposed denials.

      This reminds me of astroturfing idiots who need to push a narrative, but can't debunk counter-arguments to their narrative.

  10. Re:Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech if it can reach Europe all the way from America on one charge!

    To play a nice game of "Missing the Joke": Model 3s are traveling to Europe on the Glovis RORO ships. They load up at Pier 80 in SF weekly. The furthest ahead one is the Glovis Captain, passed through the Panama Canal a day ago and is now en route to Zeebrugge. The second ship, Glovis Cosmos, is passing the tip of Baja en route to the canal. The third ship, Glovis Symphony, is at Pier 80 now. It's not certain, but they may be bringing in a second carrier for the China exports; we have to wait and see.

    Electric-powered non-stop transoceanic shipping is impractical with today's battery energy density; although cargo ships are very efficient, Atlantic trips would have their cargo capacity seriously slashed, and it'd be hard to cross the Pacific at all. The battery packs would also dramatically increase the cost of the ships, to impractical levels. That said, building oceanic "gigachargers" every ~700km using floating wind turbines (which exist, although they cost more than other wind turbines at present) and/or floating solar (starting to become common in reservoirs in China, and there's some small coastal pilot plants) could certainly do the trick with today's battery tech. Battery max charge rates are independent of battery size (in this case, about a gigawatt hour per ship), as are the rates in which a modular battery bank can discharge (the more modules for more storage capacity, the more power you can output). The same "0-80% in half an hour" that applies to cars can also apply to ships. The limiting factors for a ship would be docking time and connecting/disconnecting the (very) massive liquid-cooled cable with a crane. Stops would be once per day.

    A Maersk Triple-E class ship with a gigawatt hour pack, by the time that battery production had scaled to the point of being able to supply such ships (already dropping under $100/kWh, probably $50-70/kWh by then at those scales), should run a similar cost to an existing Maersk Triple-E (~$190m). Deepwater wind / floating solar, although more expensive than near-shore and land-based alternatives, should still fuel ships at a cheaper cost than bunker fuel, particularly now that they're being forced to phase out sulfur-heavy fuels and putting their fuel in direct competition with diesel (there's also the advantage that one of the things that makes current deepwater wind projects expensive is the cost of connecting the turbines to shore, which is eliminated in this case). Having many GWh of storage sitting in port would also be a huge buffer to coastal power grids. Lastly - while it's hard to estimate (because you're factoring in widely varying ship rents atop all the existing price uncertainty of the above), some back-of-the-napkin calculations suggest that you could even "export power" (e.g. to disaster areas or areas that are temporarily overloaded) over distances of a few hundred kilometers for a cost of a couple cents or so per kWh.

    But as for nonstop trans-oceanic shipping of goods on electric power today? No, that's not realistic on today's battery tech. Electric ferries and the like may be starting to take over short-range shipping markets in parts of Europe, but long-distance goods transport is a different story.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  11. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Rei · · Score: 2

    And as for the "cash bind", Tesla's FCF last quarter was nearly a billion dollars.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  12. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Rei · · Score: 2

    TSLAQ is hilarious. They're the market equivalent of 9/11 Truthers. ;)

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  13. The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 4, Informative
    It uses type 2 CCS so it will be able to charge at any public charging station. And likewise Tesla chargers will be able to charge other kinds of EV.

    Joined up thinking puts an end to bullshit charging format wars.

    1. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Have they actually said that other Evs can charge at the new CCS Type 2 Tesla points? Good news if they have

      --
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    2. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 2
      Tesla will have to allow it because there is an EU directive that says they must offer nondiscriminatory charging to any kind of vehicle through a common payment form, e.g. credit card and type 2 CCS. Strictly speaking this only applies to charge points built after Nov 2019 but as Tesla are still building out their network they're going to be on the hook.

      Prior Tesla vehicles used a modified type 2 connector which had DC charging without the additional combined charging DC pins. It was a neat design but it's not the mandated minimum so I assume their cars will support either form.

      The only way I could see Tesla not accepting other vehicles at their charges is if they claimed their charge points were part of private club or something but that probably wouldn't fly in court. Personally I don't see why Tesla would turn away revenue regardless of whose car it was.

    3. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      They might do it for the same reason everyone else wants their proprietary design to win. It helps them to compete against others and to lock people into their cars at the cost of choice.

      We had the same issue with phone chargers until EU stepped in, and now all phones charge from USB. Even abroad, because EU market is so big, it's easier to standardize world wide. And that's the exact reason why I suspect that "private club" argument will not fly. Spirit of the law in this particular case is very clear, and that kind of argumentation, even if it fit the letter of the law will most certainly be against the spirit of the law.

    4. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Tesla isn't allowing other EVs to use their chargers.

      Tesla are also charging owners rather a lot to use their chargers, which is bad because it encourages them to use other chargers which are cheaper but which other EV drivers need. Tesla should at least charge market rate, or invest in the common infrastructure.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 2

      They'll have to unless they want to speciously argue that their charging infrastructure is somehow a private members club or similar. That's because the EU has rules which come into effect about public chargers having to offer type 2 CCS and non-discriminatory pricing.

    6. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 1
      The phone charger thing was actually a Chinese mandate that the EU adopted as an advisory. Manufacturers including Samsung, Apple and Nokia signed a memorandum of understanding to use USB chargers. Even so, Apple uses a proprietary connector and forces people use an ugly dongle to use a standard USB charger - that's to comply with the letter but not the spirit of the agreement.

      I could see Tesla doing similar, however I think it is encouraging they are using type 2 CCS in the model 3 and it is a sign that they won't. Letting other cars use their network is also a way to hedge their bets and utilise the extra revenue to build out faster.

      The odd one out is Nissan who are still clinging to chademo even though it is ultimately doomed in Europe. Even the revised Leaf that appeared last year uses chademo. The really stupid part is the Leaf has a Type 2 charger right alongside the chademo charger but one is for AC and one is for DC. For the time being owners should be fine but I wonder how many chargers will exist 5 or 10 years from now.

    7. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Interesting. I know they had to offer at least one charger for other vehicles, but it was often just a 7kW socket. Do you have a citation for this rule?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Please don't do that Chinese propaganda spin. Phone charger issue was pushed by almost a decade by a wide range of EU based activists. Chinese "how do we dethrone the evil Koreans" efforts were used as one of the smaller arguments in pushing the issue. Primary elements pushing for it were pro-competition arguments, recycling issues and costs, listed here in order of importance. Of those, only the last and least important one one matched Chinese agenda, as it decreased costs on Chinese consumers switching from Samsung, LG et al. Competition was actually seen as bad, because locking things down to Huawei et al was seen at the time as important in China. It's just that they had problems competing with Korean chaebols at the time, so it was seen as a lesser evil.

      Apple is routinely in conflict with EU legislation. Not just advisory, but actual law, such as laws on manufacturer warranty duration. It makes for an awful example as a result, as it's a clear outlier on regulatory oversight issues across the board, including this one.

    9. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 2

      This directive. Article 4, parts 4, 8, 10 & 11 in particular.

    10. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I don't think any of that requires Tesla to offer charging to non-Tesla drivers. All the responsibilities are on energy providers to basically be fair to charge network operators.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Tesla are also charging owners rather a lot to use their chargers, which is bad because it encourages them to use other chargers which are cheaper but which other EV drivers need.

      Doesn't it also provide incentive for other players to build EV charging stations? Why aren't the utilities themselves doing this? Isn't it essentially their job?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The problem at the moment is that it's not clear how to make rapid charging pay for itself. It's pretty much a loss leader, with most networks seeing it as a way to get established and put a stake in the ground at the best locations.

      Generally a rapid charger will generate â5-10/hour when in use. So â240/day max assuming 100% utilization, more likely â100/day for busy areas. Maintenance costs on top. The chargers cost maybe â50-60k each to buy and install, assuming there is decent infrastructure. So once you have paid for the electricity and the backend payment system and customer support the pay-back time on the chargers isn't great, especially in less popular areas.

      They have a lifetime of about 10 years before they are worn out too.

      In the long run the usage will go up, and so will the prices. Most people will avoid them and charge at home or their destination, and paying â50/1000 km range on the motorway will be acceptable. At that point everyone will want a slice of the action, including the taxman.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by DrXym · · Score: 1
      And part 9 - "All recharging points accessible to the public shall also provide for the possibility for electric vehicle users to recharge on an ad hoc basis without entering into a contract with the electricity supplier or operator concerned.".

      So I turn up at a Tesla charge point in my type 2 CCS EV made by some other manufacturer and I should have the means to use that charge point and pay for it in an ad hoc fashion.

    14. Re:The best thing about the Euro Model 3 by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Hmm, yeah, maybe. It doesn't say they have to offer service to everyone though.

      Having said that don't you have to have some kind of contract with Tesla even if you own a Tesla? They don't have payment terminals on the chargers themselves, you must have to set up an account with them. Maybe they will roll out an app.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  14. Re:Good then by Rei · · Score: 2

    Wrong. "Europe" is a misnomer. They're shipping only to Western Europe now, and not including Iceland. We have to keep waiting, along with Eastern Europe. :P There remains only one Model 3 in the country (which someone imported from the US, so it has the wrong charge connector).

    Hopefully they'll open up sales here soon. If not by this summer than I may look into importing one from the Netherlands.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  15. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    It doesn't seem like an ideal car for Europe to be honest. The boot (trunk) leaks badly when it rains and while the shape (low and wide) is popular in the US in Europe people prefer a bit narrower and taller. Also it's very, very expensive compared to other cars in the more developed European EV market.

    I'm sure they will sell plenty, at least at first while the pre-orders are in place. A lot of people are waiting for the $35k model though, which isn't even on the timeline yet. Many seem to be expecting it to be â/£35k too, which isn't going to happen. Aside from anything else you have to add ~20% sales tax. And that's the poverty spec.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  16. Re:Why all the mentions of the Big Three? by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does anybody seriously think the Tesla Model 3 will be competitive with anything from Mercedes, Audi and BMW?

    What do you mean 'will be'? No need for the future tense.

    Tesla has a niche, because it currently is the only brand offering cars with such large batteries.

    Hey, remember how the Bolt was supposed to blow away Tesla sales because of its large battery? Funny thing...

    Moreover, since the Big Three will offer premium EVs very soon

    Yes, same "Tesla Killer" story we've been hearing for the past decade. Meanwhile, Tesla's lead only continues to grow.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  17. Re:Tough sell here... by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

    After VAT (~20% in most of Europe), yes. Although some parts of Europe (such as Norway) don't have to pay VAT on EVs like they do on ICE vehicles. When you see the price of a car in the US, remember that there's no nationwide VAT over there.

    The cheapest version you can get in Europe also has a 560km WLTP, AWD, comes with the premium package and does 0-100kph in 4,8 seconds.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  18. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Rei · · Score: 2

    Keep living in your TSLAQ bubble as long as your conspiracy-theory-loving head can manage it.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  19. Re:T-Minus 2 years by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    The boot (trunk) leaks badly when it rains

    What do you mean? Is it not water tight?

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  20. Re:T-Minus 2 years by bgarcia · · Score: 1

    The frunk doesn't leak. I'm not sure where you heard that rumor.

    The storage compartment under that front hood has a proper gasket and is water-tight.

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  21. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    Should have linked the videos.

    https://youtu.be/hCv_Ha0oWjE
    https://youtu.be/rk1QRJjHjsM
    https://youtu.be/RytwKuBAIuM

    Basically when it's been raining and you open the boot, water pours in and all your stuff gets wet.

    The seal isn't great either, there is a guy on TMC who didn't close it properly (car said shut, but it wasn't) and the boot got completely flooded. When he presses on the carpet it releases a puddle of water now. Apparently there is no drain!

    Unfortunately the design has already been approved for the EU so that's what we are getting.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  22. Re:T-Minus 2 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It is watertight, but on the bottom side only.

  23. Re:T-Minus 2 years by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

    Righto then. I suppose you can't expect too much for that kind of money XD

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  24. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Bravo. I wish I had mod points.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  25. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    It's like they don't have much experience making cars or something.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  26. Re:T-Minus 2 years by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Looks like a fairly simple fix. Standardizing for release doesn't mean they won't be able to make adjustments before final sale.

  27. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Assuming you're correct in your numbers, the logic is sensible. There's a large untapped market for performance models in EU. And while they're doing it, US market's demand will begin to stabilize again.

  28. Go nuclear by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Or you could instead go nuclear if you were using a Russian boat.
    (No other countries operates non-military nuclear-powered vessels).

    No range problems at all when you can generate your needed electrical power locally.

    (Which is the whole point of why Russian icebreakers do run on nuclear.
    Hard to refuel a classical oil engine if the next port is 6 months away through thick ice).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Go nuclear by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And no decommissioning problems at all when Russia will just let you throw the reactor in a hole in Siberia when you're done with it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  29. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but then you have to wonder why they haven't done it yet. They are pumping out thousands of flawed vehicles a week, all potentially needing this fix.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  30. Re:T-Minus 2 years by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Rush, lack of reports of this problem, straight to customer sales.

  31. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Rei · · Score: 1

    GAAP profits of +$312M, non-GAAP profits of +$512M.

    --
    Hey, guys, I'm just pleased as punch to report that it's a fleet of a hundred Vogon Battle Destroyers!
  32. Re:Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech by lurcher · · Score: 2

    Hey, lets invent wind powered ships, they could catch on.

  33. Re:Tough sell here... by coofercat · · Score: 1

    Left or right hand drive?

    ^^ one thing even the European legislators are scared to 'harmonise' ;-)

  34. Re:T-Minus 2 years by Zehsi · · Score: 1

    rofl no. competition is good. It's dull seeing bmws, porsches, ferraris, aston martins all days on the road... We need moar variety roflmao...

  35. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    This is the perfect time to send cars overseas since they do not have enough buyers here.

    What are you smoking, and how do I contact your dealer? They can sell every car they can produce here, and then some.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  36. Re:Tough sell here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Technically, Brexit is a way to harmonise it.

  37. Re:T-Minus 2 years by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The boot (trunk) leaks badly when it rains and while the shape (low and wide) is popular in the US in Europe people prefer a bit narrower and taller.

    Well, no. Narrow, tall trunks are the result of legislative interference, in the form of rear impact protection against taller vehicles, and the result of using external hinges to compensate for trunk packaging problems resulting from having to meet these regulations. The external hinges make the trunk opening even more narrow, but stop you from damaging cargo with the hinges. People worldwide prefer trunks with lower openings, but those are difficult to make now and still pass crash tests.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  38. Re:Why all the mentions of the Big Three? by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

    Does anybody seriously think the Tesla Model 3 will be competitive with anything from Mercedes, Audi and BMW?

    Maybe they could offer a sweet turbocharged inline six like my BMW has. That could make them interesting.

  39. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's a good plan with one minor fault - there is no plant in China.

    Go back and read my comment again. If you still don't understand it, just forget your password and go somewhere else.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  40. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Hmm, but you do have many hatchback cars in the US, often the same as European models.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  41. Re:T-Minus 2 years by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Hmm, but you do have many hatchback cars in the US, often the same as European models.

    Hatchbacks are high in back already, the point of a higher trunk is to stop tall vehicles from going right over the top of the vehicle. And they have low trunk floors, as a general rule.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  42. Re:T-Minus 2 years by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Ah, I see what you mean.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  43. Re:T-Minus 2 years by bgarcia · · Score: 1

    Yes. It's a good think that well-established auto companies like Volkswagen don't have these issues.

    http://youtu.be/bkSuyXnCSO4

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  44. Proportion by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Yup this couple of tons dug in a hole are so much worse than the order of magnitude larger amount of pollution produced by burning fossils.

    And said pollution - that comes from the fossils even contains small traces of radioactive elements.
    Except that, because burning fossils generate so much more emissions than using nuclear, these (proportionally) "small traces" end up being more radioactive emissions (in absolute) than nuclear power plants.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Proportion by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yup this couple of tons dug in a hole are so much worse than the order of magnitude larger amount of pollution produced by burning fossils

      False dichotomy. Run along now.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  45. Re:Why all the mentions of the Big Three? by Tom · · Score: 1

    Does anybody seriously think the Tesla Model 3 will be competitive with anything from Mercedes, Audi and BMW?

    Yes. And I say that as a BMW driver.

    Despite lots of PR and prototypes, there is yet to appear a viable mass-market electric car from any of them. The i3 is a niche product, it has exactly one use-case: Daily commute to work, if you have a 2nd car for other trips. The i8 is actually a hybrid, not a pure electrical car. Mercedes doesn't have any electrical cars except some concept models. And the Audi e-tron is starting delivery in "early 2019", so the Model 3 might actually beat it to market.

    The laggards here desperately need some serious competition that will kick them into action.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  46. Re:Tesla model 3 must have insane battery tech by ffkom · · Score: 1

    Only if they are autonomously steered by Apps in the Cloud using Blockchains on Quantum Computers as their AI.

  47. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

    Yes, there is a large, untapped market for performance, good looking electric cars in the EU. And VW, Mercedes and BMW are going to have it. The ugly ducklings that Tesla sells for the same price as a Mercedes SUV with all bells and whistles - not a chance.

    I mean, for the same 60k euros a pop sometime in 2019, are you going to buy a horse carriage with a subpar Android tablet or this:

    https://www.mercedes-benz.com/...

  48. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    There are over 500 million people in EEA. There's quite a bit of market to go around for all players.

  49. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

    Get real, the market for show-off vehicles over 60k euros is nowhere near 500 million in EEA.

  50. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    You should try reading comprehension. The point you raised has nothing to do with my argument.

  51. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

    LOL, when stupid is beaten with facts, stupid reacts with boilerplate kindergarten trolling. Fuck off, dildo.

  52. Re:He can't keep up with demand here, allegedly... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    No literally, read what I said. You failed to comprehend it. And when this was pointed out to you, instead of correcting your statement, you just reacted like a three year old when being pointed out that shitting your pants doesn't make you an adult. You did the digital equivalent of rolling on the ground screaming and beating fists into the ground.