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Google Says Data is More Like Sunlight Than Oil (businessinsider.com)

Google wants to popularize a more upbeat way of describing data: It's more like sunlight than oil. From a report: Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on Tuesday morning, Google's chief financial officer, Ruth Porat, said that "data is more like sunlight than oil," adding, "It is like sunshine -- we keep using it, and it keeps regenerating." It's a twist on the well-known phrase "data is the new oil," meaning the world's most valuable resource is information rather than petroleum. Like the oil barons who preceded them, Silicon Valley titans such as Google, Facebook, and Amazon have risen quickly to profit from this new resource and even control its flow. And in another echo of history, regulators are eyeing the industry.

50 of 88 comments (clear)

  1. More Like Crack by moehoward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least to Google, Facebook, and Amazon, data is like crack, not happy-happy-sunshine. They are addicted and act just like any other addict.

    --
    "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    1. Re:More Like Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's like sunshine in the sense that they'll die without it.

    2. Re:More Like Crack by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      More like farts. We generate a lot of them and they aren't particularly valuable to us, but we still don't want companies to come and harvest them from us.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:More Like Crack by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      I was thinking that the whole data industry is more like the international human sex/slave trafficking industry.

      They're buying and selling human souls.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:More Like Crack by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      At least to Google, Facebook, and Amazon, data is like crack, not happy-happy-sunshine. They are addicted and act just like any other addict.

      My first thought was Data is more like Cigarettes. The big data companies deny that them handling our data is harmful to us, what's the loss of a little privacy, whilst meanwhile we're seeing all sorts of problems caused by people's whose data is being harvested.

      It's mainstream, and just like once upon a time most men smoked; right now most men are giving away their data- it's culturally acceptable to just let Big Data take your data and damage your lungs of privacy.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    5. Re:More Like Crack by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Funny

      More like farts. We generate a lot of them and they aren't particularly valuable to us, but we still don't want companies to come and harvest them from us.

      I personally don't care if someone harvests my farts. I'd like to think that my farts were making someone's life better somehow.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    6. Re:More Like Crack by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      If data is like oil, Google and Facebook are like monopolies on oil drilling rigs. They've 'bought up' all the drilling rigs and rig manufacturers in the world, so that new rigs cannot be manufactured cost-effectively by anybody else. Now, competitors, go out there and drill for all that free, self-replenishing oil - if you can.

      In any case, the Google shill is choosing her analogy selectively - presumably to fend off criticism of Google as a monopolist. But the real problem with data collection is data collection itself. The Google data collection services may be analogous to oil wells (subject to the caveat above), but the issue that really should be attracting the regulators is the Google Ad business - let's call that the power (profit) generation side of the extraction/exploitation analogy. To me, targeted advertising based on surveillance of personal data is more like a nuclear power plant than a solar one. It's dangerous stuff - potentially life ruining, and with a half-life that has yet to be determined (but may be practically infinite compared to the human lifespan). And it needs to be regulated appropriately to prevent its escape (intentional or otherwise) into the environment - where it'll do damage for years to come.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    7. Re:More Like Crack by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Mmmm well depends on the way my farts are harvested. Is it by forcing a tube in my a-hole? Or standing by and waiting for my farts to come out?

      The way Google, Amazon et. al. are doing it is more like the tube in the ass method. They force a device on (or into) you and take whatever they want (or well, they take everything and filter out. Or not.)

    8. Re:More Like Crack by mspohr · · Score: 2

      Surveillance Capitalism
      https://www.theguardian.com/te...

      The headline story is that it’s not so much about the nature of digital technology as about a new mutant form of capitalism that has found a way to use tech for its purposes. The name Zuboff has given to the new variant is “surveillance capitalism”. It works by providing free services that billions of people cheerfully use, enabling the providers of those services to monitor the behaviour of those users in astonishing detail – often without their explicit consent.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    9. Re:More Like Crack by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that Google ditched their company slogan, "don't be evil", tells you everything you need to know about Google.

      The only good thing you can say is at the moment of that decision, they were not hypocrites.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    10. Re:More Like Crack by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Mmmm well depends on the way my farts are harvested. Is it by forcing a tube in my a-hole? Or standing by and waiting for my farts to come out?

      The way Google, Amazon et. al. are doing it is more like the tube in the ass method. They force a device on (or into) you and take whatever they want (or well, they take everything and filter out. Or not.)

      A tube up the arse may be more efficient, but a more palatable method would be to have a pocket sewn into the underwear with special fart-capturing crystals to put into the pocket to catch the farts- then you can just ship the fart-crystal packets off to google, or whoever wants them. I know they sell similar with charcoal to catch odours (but I don't know if the farts can then be efficiently extracted from the charcoal at a later date).

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    11. Re:More Like Crack by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      whilst meanwhile we're seeing all sorts of problems caused by people's whose data is being harvested.

      What problems are you referring to ?

    12. Re: More Like Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Google is more like cancer than a cure.

    13. Re:More Like Crack by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Nope. Google, Facebook and Amazon are all addicted to money. That money is generated by these companies' (product) users, who are addicted to playing the role of their own selfish fantasies.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    14. Re:More Like Crack by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      The way Google, Amazon et. al. are doing it is more like the tube in the ass method. They force a device on (or into) you and take whatever they want (or well, they take everything and filter out. Or not.)

      Nope. They sit on that pipe because it makes them feel like they have a life outside of work. But actually, when you log into Facebook, you're literally working for Facebook, for free.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    15. Re:More Like Crack by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Nope. People use these sites because it gives them the sense of well-being. But when you log into Facebook, you're literally working for Facebook, for free. Same with the others.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    16. Re:More Like Crack by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Don't be silly. No need for human trials, as we can just lock up cows in fart mills.

      Just wait until the certified organic farts are available. Hipsters will pay a hefty premium for that.

  2. Don't be evil...do the right thing by aicrules · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whatever altruistic motto you want to portray, Google, this doesn't reflect that. You're taking an equally lucrative and shady business and trying to make it sound better by marketing it. This is one of the purest forms of evil. Data gathering and monetization of that data is much more like oil than sunlight, and that includes the bad ways. Oil barons, data barons, both are looking for a way to get and control as much of it as possible and are willing to do just about anything in that pursuit because it is profitable. There are people who have abused sunlight as an renewable energy source in the same way oil has been abused to the detriment of society. If you're overt about it, at least people can make informed decisions about supporting you. If you try to hide it or sugarcoat it like this BS attempt, well, that means you are evil. You don't have to sugarcoat good truth. Anyway, I like what google does with my data, but the fact that they are attempting this form of dishonesty makes me reconsider.

    1. Re:Don't be evil...do the right thing by Desler · · Score: 1

      Whatever altruistic motto you want to portray, Google, this doesn't reflect that.

      This just in: Google was never altruistic. That motto was purely to scam naive idiots. They've been raping your privacy for profit since day one.

    2. Re:Don't be evil...do the right thing by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

      There are people who have abused sunlight as an renewable energy source in the same way oil has been abused to the detriment of society.

      Ahh yes. Who could forget the great solar panel spill of '04? Or the constant solar smog exuding from the solar plants every day? Or the ongoing war in Sunstania. They said it was for peacekeeping purposes. I'm convinced they just want to get their hands on all that sweet, sweet sunlight.

    3. Re:Don't be evil...do the right thing by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes. Who could forget the great solar panel spill of '04?

      Are you talking about 2104? Because this may be the case by then.

      Or the constant solar smog exuding from the solar plants every day?

      Is that what the lead and cadmium leaching from solar panels discarded in landfills will be called?

      Or the ongoing war in Sunstania. They said it was for peacekeeping purposes.

      It's certainly possible that various materials needed for batteries and solar panels very well could cause unstable regions to become the new middle east.

      I fear that solar is going to become the new nuclear, though I hope I'm wrong. I remember when I was a kid, nuclear everything was going to fix all of our woes. No one wants to discuss the potential issues that are going to occur when panels reach EOL. Granted, radioactive waste is more dangerous, but it's also regulated federally and is only coming from power plants. Panels are used in road side signs, on houses, solar farms, portable battery chargers, etc.

      Currently most, if not all, states simply allow EOL panels to be sent to land fills. While they are made of a lot of glass, it's not pure enough to be recycled. The aluminum is does not have enough value to be removed from the frames for recycling either.

      Fawn Lake Virginia has a 6,000 acre solar farm. It's been reported that there is 100,000 pounds of cadmium between all of those panels. What happens if there's a hail storm, or a tornado? Depending on how long the clean up takes, how much of that will get leached out by rainfall? What is the plan when those panels reach EOL?

      Of course there are panels that don't contain much toxic material. But most current production solar panels are not made that way. It's also not currently, nor is it likely to become financially viable to recycle solar panels. Hopefully this will get figured out, but just like nuclear waste, we're going to have to figure out what the hell to do with this stuff at some point.

  3. Re:Spin by click2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sunlight eh... I guess that makes Google a melanoma?

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  4. Refined Analogy by Comboman · · Score: 1

    Data would be like sunshine, if Facebook/Google/etc were capable of blocking out large portions of the sky to prevent the sun from shining on anyone else. Hey, maybe that's why Facebook is building a satellite and Google is building balloons.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    1. Re:Refined Analogy by Terwin · · Score: 1

      Data would be like sunshine, if Facebook/Google/etc were capable of blocking out large portions of the sky to prevent the sun from shining on anyone else.

      I do that.
      I've got perhaps a 1/4 acre lot where I block out the sun for my exclusive use.
      I hear Google, Apple, and Amazon all have some quite sizable areas where they block out the sun for the exclusive use of the company and it's employees.

      On the other hand Disney has a quite sizable area near Orlando, FL where they sell short-term access to their sunlight(and things it reflects from) at fairly high prices.

      My sister even has a multi-acre lot for her exclusive use where she uses her sunlight to grow fruit, vegetables and livestock(she calls it a 'Ranch').

      Similarly, if you are providing any online services, you could easily collect any incidental data that passes through your systems for your own use.(might want an EULA, but that is not much of a requirement)

  5. Says a lot about the amount of data Google gets by Monster_user · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is just Google bragging about the insane quantities of data the get through their various platforms and services. Data is oil indicates that there is significant value in data. Data is sunshine means that you get so much data thrown at you, that you begin to notice clouds, rain clouds, and other weather patterns in the data. Sunshine also invokes shadows. At night a shadow is impenetrable, buried in the darkness of the unknown, you have to shine the light directly on the object your interested in. In the daylight a shadow conceals almost nothing. Like Facebook "shadow profiles" of people without accounts.

    Data is sunshine also implies that there is a recurring pattern to the data, like an ebb and flow of the tide, or seasonal changes, or the rotation of the earth. The data refreshes, it doesn't change significantly.

    This implies that data is still oil, and validates the usefulness of data. Sunshine is validation of the data. Oil is the data.

  6. If data is like sunlight... by kamakazi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it that the companies mining it keep their practices so deep in the shadows?

    --
    "Proximity to wonder has blunted our perception and appreciation of it" --Tim Hartnell in 'Exploring ARTIFICIAL INTELLI
    1. Re:If data is like sunlight... by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      I don't know that Google, Facebook or anyone else who mine data actually keep anything in the shadows. It's all very simple. If you are online someone is monitoring you. Someone collects every step you take on line, every link you click, where you are, where you've been. Physically and electronically.

      With a great deal of effort you can thin the data a little or help ensure its kept in separate buckets that can't easily be linked together. But make no mistake someone still has it.

      Use a VPN? They have to actually know where you are. Good ones don't keep this data beyond the short time they need it, but how can you know?

      If you have a cell phone the provider can track you. They must in order to be able to transfer your phone from cell to cell.

      They only way to really thin the data is to never go online at all. Never use a cell phone, credit card, computer. Even then you're not safe. If any of your friends is on Facebook chances are they have a shadow account for you. If your friends tag their photos they know what you look like. Do you own a home? The record is online. They know where you live.

      There are no shadows. It's all out there. The only thing protecting you is that there are people who's data is more interesting then yours.

  7. Rent seekers by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All that data would be worthless without underlying "fundamentals" economy. You still have to produce widgets that are wanted by consumers that can afford to pay for it.

    Google and such are just rent-seeking, where they artificially insert themselves between producers and consumers.

  8. Data is more like oil by rlp · · Score: 1

    And Google is the new Standard Oil.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
    1. Re:Data is more like oil by PPH · · Score: 1

      And it's leaking all over the place.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  9. Why So Much? by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Statistical analysis tells us that if we take a small subset of data we can make some pretty strong predictions about the general population. Therefore you don't need billions of records to make strong predictions.

    The data is also out of date almost immediately as people do change so it's better to take small samples and analyse them than to try to gather all the data possible.

    Also no one is average in fact when they calculated what an average PHYSICAL frame should be they found that no one was close to being average on more than one axis.

    The only good reason to collect so much data about people is to recreate them for addition to the singularity when it comes, which I suppose is a noble goal but I'd prefer if they tried to make things better now.

    Just my 2c.

    1. Re:Why So Much? by tomhath · · Score: 1

      You need to get current with the new hipster buzzwords: AI, Knowledge Discovery, Machine Learning, etc.

      Statistical analysis is only for people who understand statistics.

  10. Regenerate this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Data does not "regenerate" it accumulates. The more you accumulate the more it's worth. Google is like Smaug in that it knows every item in its hoard.

    1. Re:Regenerate this by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      Sunlight does not regenerate either. Once the elements for fusion are gone and the star cools down, the spent photons won't help you recover the light.

  11. Shrek corollary on changing metaphors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Ogres are not like parfaits. Ogres are like onions. End of story"

    I'm sorry the oil metaphor is not ecologically palatable. It fits better. Data is formed from the dead carcasses of ancient systems and must be drilled into and refined to get any good out of it.

  12. Ben Kingsley in Sneakers said it best... by uem-Tux · · Score: 1

    The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money, it's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons. There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!

    --
    A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills
  13. Wear your Fucking Sunscreen by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Yes these folks are like a Cancer for sure.

    --
    [($)]
  14. Neither by chispito · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Oil? Sunlight? Those are both stupid analogies. Data are simply information. You do not need an analogy to explain that.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  15. Where's my SPF1000 sunscreen at? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You're not welcome to my data, now or ever, I do not consent to your collecting it, and I sure as fuck don't consent to your selling it if you had it.

  16. Why do I suddenly have flashbacks? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Why was the first thing that came to my mind that the DOD used the term "sunshine unit" briefly for strontium units until even they couldn't take the ridicule anymore?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  17. More genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sunlight us actually useful. Big data, and arguably the modern, neutered by greed and bias Google, not so much.

  18. Self-Serving Simile by Blue+Stone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Data is not like sunshine.

    Data is not a natural resource, because that data is generated not by a natural phenomenon to whom all have access, it is (typically) generated by people.

    In that sense, data is more like blood.

    Which would make Google and Facebook more like vampires and us, their victims.

    Sunlight, if anything, would be the GDPR and other regulations, shining a light on their activities, which is the last thing they want.

    Doesn't that make more sense than Google's skewed, self-serving analogy?

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    1. Re:Self-Serving Simile by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I'd tend to argue data is more like human feces.

      I was going to suggest the same thing. We don’t need it to survive like we need blood, we produce it as a byproduct of going about our lives, any given sample won’t necessarily tell you much about the person as a whole and, we find it creepy if someone has an interest in collecting or studying it.

  19. Re:Where is the Profit in That? by PPH · · Score: 1

    B...b...but muh solar panels!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  20. It's more like water by Solandri · · Score: 2

    Deviously clever of them to use sunlight in their analogy, since sunlight doesn't belong to anyone and is free for anyone to receive.

    Data is more like fresh water. It's also renewable and free. But it pools up on certain private property. You cannot access it on someone else's property without trespassing or first getting their permission. Which is something these data mining companies hide from their "customers" inside dense EULA agreements. If they're so certain that their users have willingly given them permission, then they wouldn't object to a law which requires them to state in bold at the top of their sign-up page and EULA what data they collect and how they use it, right?

  21. More like a sun going supernova by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 2

    Based on the exponential growth of data, it's more like the sun going supernova, or at least turning into a red giant.

  22. Greenwashing by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    is the technical term.

  23. Sunlight can't be stored like data. by ron_ivi · · Score: 1
    Google and Facebook hold on to data to build ever richer profiles on people forever.

    A better analogy is that Data is like Rain

    And Google and Facebook own all the water rights to groundwater; as well as are claiming rights to Rainfall and daming all streams leaving their property.

  24. Also gives you cancer. Just like Sunshine. by DalM · · Score: 1

    Use SPF 15 (at a minimum) when browsing the web.

  25. Yep by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Excessive sunlight causes cancer
    Excessive data collection....