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Proposed Bill Would Force Arizonians To Pay $250 To Have Their DNA Added To a Database (gizmodo.com)
technology_dude writes: One by one, thresholds are being crossed where the collection and storage of personal data is accepted as routine. Being recorded by cameras at business locations, in public transportation, in schools, churches, and every other place imaginable. Recent headlines include "Singapore Airlines having cameras built into the seat back of personal entertainment systems," and "Arizona considering a bill to force some public workers to give up DNA samples (and even pay for it)." It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal. Do we even have a line the sand that we would defend? Do we even see anything wrong with it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely and we continue to give knowledge of our personal lives (power) to others. If we continue down the same path, I suppose we deserve what we get? I want to shout "Stop the train, I want off!" but I fear my plea would be ignored. So who out there is more optimistic than I and can recommend some reading that will give me hope? Bill 1475 was introduced by Republican State Senator David Livingston and would require teachers, police officers, child day care workers, and many others to submit their DNA samples along with fingerprints to be stored in a database maintained by the Department of Public Safety. "While the database would be prohibited from storing criminal or medical records alongside the DNA samples, it would require the samples be accompanied by the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address," reports Gizmodo. "The living will be required to pay [a $250 processing fee] for this invasion of their privacy, but any dead body that comes through a county medical examiner's office would also be fair game to be entered into the database."
. . . they'll have to get it the old fashioned way.
They can kiss my hairy ass, and swab their lips afterwards.
We have a positive match of your DNA to a murder crime scene from 1910. This was before you were born, but it could have been an accident with a contraceptive in a time machine.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Bill 1475 was introduced by Republican State Senator David Livingston
I presumed it'd be a Republican to do this.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Fire them? If entire staff at schools, police departments, etc. refuse to take the test and pay it won't turn out well if they try to fire them. Between lawsuits, union fights and politicians trying to explain why school is canceled and the police/fire are not answering calls things will get sorted out quickly. My guess the bill dies quietly in committee...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It seems the more and more the meaning of the word "Freedom" and "Land of the Free" is becoming more and more watered down.
And I'm not sure I'm surprised, to be honest. It seems that the USA, for everything that it does have, has forgotten about its people.
There are many countries in the world where this sort of thing just wouldn't happen. Some have laws to protect their citizens (Europe being one -- no was would the GDPR allow this to happen, for example), and some just wouldn't have it within their culture.
I do fear for the USA sometimes. Things are constantly happening there are making it one of the least free countries in the world. It's a trend that I don't see stopping. You might have missed the deadline of 1984, but I fear that's where you are all heading.
And it's a bit scary looking at it from here.
It's always Republicans that want bigger government. It's not about taxes, Libertarians, it's about power.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Gee, I wonder where the taxes really end up.
> "While the database would be prohibited from storing criminal or medical records alongside the DNA samples, it would require the samples be accompanied by the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address"
Yeah, totally separate so totally safe to contribute to. We're not going to crosscheck with any other database when we feel like it, matching on common fields, honest. We also won't update the other databases with this data either, pinky swear.
One for the GFY pile, particularly when people are to be charged for it.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
I don't think most of the commenters actually read the post. Technology_dude was asking for reading recommendations to make him feel better. I can't suggest anything real. Whenever I read things that make me feel better, like new stuff the FSF is doing, it's always tinged by how frequently it's not enough or doesn't spread. For fiction, tho, I read Punch Escrow recently and found it's vision of our future to be uplifting. It's not a utopia, but it may very well be that those are off the table.
nt
If they want this then they should lead by example and be the first to have their DNA added to this database.
Oh, yes, lets start settling our political disputes with guns. Maybe your neighbors don't agree with you and decide your neighborhood would be better off without you.
>" It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal."
Forced mass collection of DNA is REALLY crossing a lot of lines. I can't believe anyone would even propose such a bill.
Now, and surely more certainly in the future, the information demanded in this law will allow others to become you absolutely anytime they want to. Name, address, social security number, even DNA - what else is left that defines you as you? Hackers will have a field day. We Americans have lost the belief that freedom should cost anything in our daily lives. We are willing to give up freedom, privacy and rights if we think we can attain some minor level of safety and protection by doing so. Those who strive for more power over Americans know this and use this cowardice.
E Proelio Veritas.
History teaches us that usually people have to be actually starving to death before considering revolution, so don't hold your breath.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
How much would I get to give them my DNA -
$ 5k ?
probably way too low....
Yea, this creepy behaviour has been around for 10 years now. Anybody remember DNA checkpoint traffic stops in Texas?
also min wage workers can't be forced to pay that fee and the work place will have to pay it.
Indeed, Arizonans are going to balk at "Arizonians" and sink it.
It may not fly, but I rather suspect it will trudge forward through the muck and mire.
Check your premises.
This bill isn't going to fly.
Of course not. Sounds too much like illegal search and seizure.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
> Steve Scalise got his ass shot off and yet still found it within himself to promote more guns. Never underestimate a pol's moral depravity.
Isn't "moral depravity" more when you try to murder someone for being a Republican, then try to blame & disarm the victim so that your attacks will succeed next time?
The problem is with those people who have bad hearts who wish to hurt others. Your plans will leave only the honest people giving up their guns and these are the guns that protect people. But you don't care about any of that, you just want to feel morally superior to others, even as you work to help a murderer you agree with by trying to disarm the victim.
London is also trying to roll out facial recognition, tied into a database that tracks movements. They are basically trying to build The Machine from Person Of Interest, that tracks everyone using cameras and cell phones to predict crimes. The difference being, in Person of Interest, the designer made it so you couldn't "direct" the Machine - it only spat out the ID of potential terrorists. London's technology is totally unencumbered by such fail-safes.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
I fear this is a response to a recent incident of abuse at an extended care center here in Arizona. An incident so abhorrent I will not describe it here. So we have an ambulance chaser making such a noble proposal...
And the overreach:
In Arizona, this will include real estate salespersons and brokers, among others. The current list of those required, in Arizona, to obtain a fingerprint clearance card:
ABDE-Dental Hygienist Licensure
ABDE-Dentist Licensure
ABDE-Denturist Certification
ADFI-Appraisal Management/Controlling person
ADFI-Appraisal Management/Registration
ADFI-Appraiser-License or Certificate
ADOT Traffic School Licensure
ADOT-Driver Training School Licensure
AZ Board of Fingerprinting-Members & Staff
AZ Charter School Board-Member/Applicant
AZ Dept. of Ed-Attend Vocational Program; Age 22 or older
AZ Dept. of Ed-Child Nutrition Programs
AZ Dept. of Ed-Surrogate Parents
AZ Dept. Real Estate-Licensure
AZ Game and Fish
AZ Schools for the Deaf & Blind-Superintendent
BPT - Physical Therapist & Assistants Licensure
BTR-Alarm Agent Certification
BTR-Controlling Person Certification
DCS - Child Welfare/Adoption Agency Employee
DCS-Adoption
DCS-Employee or IT Employee or IT Employees of Contractors or Subcontractors
DCS-Field Employee
DCS-Foster Home Licensure
Department of Juvenile Corrections-Licensee or Contract Provider
DES-CCR&R Registered Home
DES-Certified Child Care Provider & Non-Certified Relative Provider
DES-DAAS-Division of Aging & Adult Svcs.
DES-DDD - Developmental Home Licensure
DES-DDD/HCBS-Home & Community Based Svcs.
DES-Domestic Violence/Homeless Shelter
DES-Employee
DES-IT Position
DES-Employee or Contractor with access to Federal Tax Information
DES-JOBS Program
DES-WIOA-Workforce Innovation & Opportunity Act
DHS-Arizona State Hospital
DHS-Child Care Employees & Volunteers
DHS-Child Care Facility Licensure
DHS-Child Care Group Home; Certification, Employees or Volunteers
DHS-Children’s Behavioral Health Programs Employees and Volunteers
DHS-Nursing Care Administrators & Assisted Living Facility Managers
DHS-Residential or Nursing Care Institutions; Home Health Agencies – Employees and Volunteers
Health Science Student & Clinical Assistant
Juvenile Probation-Supreme Court, County Attorney or other Contract Provider Employee or Volunteer
State Board of Pharmacy-3rd Party Logistic Providers Representative
State Board of Pharmacy-Licensure
State Board of Education (Teacher or Other Certification)
Tutor or Teacher Preparation Programs
Charter School Instructor
School Bus Driver
Public and/or Charter School Non-certificated personnel
Public and/or Charter School Contractor, Subcontractor or Vendor and their Employees
Of note; appraisers, IT subcontractors and their employees, alarm agents.
The bill specifies collection from (with my notes in parentheses):
1. A PERSON WHO IS REQUIRED BY LAW TO SUBMIT FINGERPRINTS FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION AS PART OF AN APPLICATION FOR LICENSURE, CERTIFICATION OR A PERMIT OR RENEWAL OF A LICENSE, CERTIFICATE OR PERMIT IF THE PERSON HAS NOT PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED DNA ID. (see the list above)
2. A PERSON WHOSE EMPLOYMENT OR POSITION REQUIRES FINGERPRINTING FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION. (apparently requiring collection if an employer requires fingerprinting, overreach)
3. A PERSON WHO IS EMPLOYED BY OR VOLUNTEERING WITH A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. (redundant)
4. A PERSON WHO, FOR ANY OTHER REASON, IS REQUIRED BY LAW TO SUBMIT FINGERPRINTS FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION. (redundant)
5. A DECEASED PERSON, WHOSE DNA ID SHALL BE COLLECTED BY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER OR THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S DESIGNEE AND SUBMITTED PURSUANT TO PROTOCOLS DEVELOPED BY THE DEPARTMENT. A DECEASED PERSON'S DNA ID MUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS AFTER COLLECTION.
6. A PERSON WHO IS ORDERED BY
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Please go the hell away.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to hide. I am squeaky clean and planning on moving to Arizona to prove it. Wait, what do you mean 'databases and the people who use them aren't infallible?'. Oh well, here's my $250 anyway. Feel free to shove it up my ass while I'm bent over for the rest of your laws.
Oh? That's not in the bill.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"IMO the way the US insulate it from the rest of the world culture,"
WHAT? The rest of the world craves and imitates US culture in so many ways.
We're just on the way to adopting the worst of the rest of the world's governance and law.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
We're to the point these days where we can usually use available DNA databases to narrow down suspects to a small family. If we have an unknown DNA sample, we can sequence it, match it against the genealogy DNA databases out there (usually GEDCOM). We'll find that the unknown DNA matches both the Doe family and the Roe families, leaving us to find the individuals resulting from a marriage between the two families. After that, it's just a matter of some simple deduction (e.g. Jane Doe and Richard Roe had four children, one was male while the suspect's DNA was female, another was living in Alaska at the time, but the third and fourth one was in the area at the time of the murder), some police work to retrieve a sample of DNA (e.g. tail them, wait for them to get a coffee and then fish the empty coffee cup out of the trash), and it's done.
The cat's out of the bag at this point. Assume GEDCOM and the other genealogy databases go defunct. Okay, great, you've just delayed the problem for a few years before some federal contractor builds in the ability to match DNA samples to relatives who have been incarcerated or DNA collected at a crime scene. (The US locks up a lot of people. Countless others (including murder victims) have their DNA collected by the police for the purpose of elimination.)
I think the question we should be asking is what limits should we put on this power? And how do we work on training police and prosecutors in this new era? What instructions do we give to a jury? Because when you can match anyone's DNA that you find at a crime scene, it's going to lead to more random coincidences and mistakes. (A famous one would be the "serial killer" whose DNA was found at multiple crime scenes - but it turned out the "killer" was a factory worker at the place that makes the swabs being used.)
It always was, baby, it always was.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Says the guy supporting a KKK member as VA gov in Northam A serial rapist as VA Lt. Gov in Fairfax In addition that same Northam told us about how he supports killing live born babies brought to full term and calling it abortion.
Sure, you support the KKK, rapists, and killing babies. Congratulations! You are literally a monster
You sure you want to stand by that last statement? I ask because David Duke and the KKK have literally announced their support for Donald Trump. I'm not saying Trump is a racist; I'm saying other racists think Donald Trump is a racist. So congratulations.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Before they pass this they need to pass a data privacy liability act. It should state the penalty for every occurence of a data record being lost to hackers because of inadequte security on the data base. FOr example, $1 million for loss of a DNA record, $500K for loss of a financial record, $250K for loss of a social security number. $100K for loss of a purchase history record and so on.
Additionally the penalty would apply not just to the person that collected the data in the first place but separately to any other parties it was entrusted to who lost it. So shared data would be subject to double the penalty. This would prevent avoiding responsibility by delegation.
If they did that then I'd not be quite as fearful of this. It could still be abused by the gov't itself but this would reasonably limit the scope
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Quote:
It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal. Do we even have a line the sand that we would defend? Do we even see anything wrong with it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely and we continue to give knowledge of our personal lives (power) to others. If we continue down the same path, I suppose we deserve what we get? I want to shout "Stop the train, I want off!" but I fear my plea would be ignored.
----
Subby laments these losses of privacy, but I have to wonder:
Do you have Alexa in your house?
Do you use a debit / credit card?
Do you have a smart tv?
Do you drive a car made after about 2007?
Do you carry a cell phone?
There are *many* way more intrusive things going on than being recorded in public places.
Are you living your convictions and actually reducing your surveillance footprint, or are you just lamenting on Slashdot?
I love how the Republicans want smaller government, unless it's for the surveillance state, and then they're all over it.
Republicans sure do love their fascism, don't they?
You can make Republicans sign anything if it is intrusive on people's lives under the pretense of security, even if it means a state which is becoming hostile to the liberties of everyone.
Now, see if he'll sign a bill to make gun owners pay for the exact same thing, and watch the hypocrisy fly.
I for one am glad that we are creating a database that can be used to conclusively identify Arizonans. Even though Arizonans can look just like normal people, with this technology we will be able to finally root them out.
Trump was not an act of defiance. He was the switch from soap opera to pro wrestling. He's 100% as fake as the rest of Washington.
It's still a nice country, it's just our politicians are mostly self-serving assholes. I'm sure most start out believing they can make a difference but bribes and corruption eventually win out.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
In another state they tried to do simple fingerprinting of existing IT employees and got smacked down, and it was at employer's expense. Are Arizona's public employee unions made of toilet paper?
The NSA already taps calls and tracks cell phone location, so it's no big deal if they force everyone to buy an Amazon Echo to record every word spoken in your own home!!!
Yes, parents are paranoid about teachers and day care workers, but their is no reasonable excuse to DNA test them. They do not commit more crimes than other professions nor do they have an easier time hiding from an investigation.
But police officers are very very hard to charge, let alone convict of a crime. In addition, they routinely contaminate crime scenes with their DNA, so they should have it taken if only to prevent the forensics teams from thinking that a random drop of cop blood came from the criminal suspect.
I see no reason not to require all police officers from giving DNA samples. But teachers and day care workers do not have those issues and furthermore do not get paid enough to charge them to $250 for the right to get a job.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I don't know about AZ specifically, but cops in some jurisdictions have crazy shit written into their contracts. Like having 24 hours to get their story straight before being questioned for a possible crime they committed. So if this fascist shit sandwich makes it through committee and into a signed bill, maybe the Fraternal Order of the Gestapo can use their power for good, for once, and fight it until it's repealed.
Republicans like to talk about ayn rand until they're blue in the face.
Ok then. Let's talk about "Atlas Shrugged" for a moment.
Who was it in those hotel lobbies conspiring to take over industry and with whom did they conspire? What tool did they use to take over industries? To what end did they take over industries? What were the protaganists view of government regulation? The antagonist? Which characters would Dubya and his crony banker buddies line up with?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
There is a difference between a Democrat, a Republican, and a liberal.
Hell, the both the Left and Right have been horseshoeing into totalitarianism. See all the anti-speech shit going on. See Hillary blaming the "deplorables" and telling people to be uncivil.
Between the left freaking out over Trump and the right just pointing and laughing... we really need a stop centrist group to get them to work together. That's tough in the two party system.
This bill isn't going to fly.
Of course not. Sounds too much like illegal search and seizure.
I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the TSA and everything that started with "the war on drugs" and has escalated since 9-11.
If I lived in Arizona I'd first refuse utterly to comply with this if it were passed into law. Then if that failed I'd pack up and leave Arizona. My DNA is nobodys' business but mine. If passed into law somehow (doubt it) I'd recommend everyone in Arizona who is affected refuse to comply. It's too nasty of a precedent if this is actually allowed to become Arizona law.
“Anyone can miss Arizonia. All the way tucked down there.” Probably near Canadia.
I notice who's missing from that list:
State employees (state legislature, etc)
Postal workers
Judges
I refuse to sign
Nowhere in the article you link does she call for seizing guns in a national emergency. Nowhere. Literally all she said was that gun violence can be considered a national emergency. The bit where you say she called for seizing your guns is entirely your hallucination.
Moreover, it's clear from context she's arguing that Presidents should *not* call for National Emergencies willy-nilly.
Choosing an obvious lie that is easy to disprove is the actions of a sociopath, which apparently you are.
You have some audacity saying this after coming in with a ridiculous lie like "this link shows the House Majority Leader calling for seizing of guns as a 'National Mergency' next time a Democrat is in the White House".
Which makes sense for someone defending the party of the KKK, rapists, and baby killers. Would you like to explain how supporting the KKK as well as lying is a good thing for us?
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Or civil forfeiture.
I feel like the real issue with this system is that "your" DNA isn't really yours in the way a fingerprint is since large parts of it are shared with your family members in a way that other bio-metrics like fingerprints are not. Therefore, this seems like it may be an unconstitutional violation of privacy for those individuals. While teachers, policemen, etc. consent to have this data collected when they apply for those professions, their family has not consented to this data collection. Additionally, unlike the case with say roommates consenting to a police search, sharing DNA with someone is not a voluntary compact and cannot be treated in the same manner.
but any dead body that comes through a county medical examiner's office would also be fair game to be entered into the database
They can have my DNA when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers! >:-(
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
WHAT? The rest of the world craves and imitates US culture in so many ways.
Wow, how delusional are you?
Just because there are McDonald's outside of the US does not mean they copy your "culture" ... what culture? Riding rodeo on bulls? Square dance? America is a country that is considered "to have no culture", at least from an European or Asian point of view.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
This just in: The US census now requires a DNA swab and fingerprints.
There's no shortage of fiction portraying dystopian futures. Somehow though there seems to be a disconnect between what people have been warned about and were scared of in fiction, and are willing to accept in real life.
Most of the dystopian future genre won't age well though as it all seems run of the mill today, and will look positively mild in comparison to reality in a few years.
Unfortunately the major export of the USA is policies like these. Most other countries bend over backwards to follow suit.
Hollywood. Video games. Comics. TV. It's either us or Japan. Not everything, but a lot. A lot.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
So you never have been in Europe? Pfffft ....
And cinema movies are not really "culture" ... or do you think so?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Republicans like to talk about ayn rand until they're blue in the face.
Ok then. Let's talk about "Atlas Shrugged" for a moment.
Who was it in those hotel lobbies conspiring to take over industry and with whom did they conspire? What tool did they use to take over industries? To what end did they take over industries? What were the protaganists view of government regulation? The antagonist? Which characters would Dubya and his crony banker buddies line up with?
They like to talk about Ayn Rand, but will probably be vague on the details of her work. Because honestly, the plot details in her novels don't matter (they're not well written), it's her philosophy of Objectivism and how they want to apply her rational self interest to their current policies.
they want to guarantee certain things needed by humans as rights. Food, shelter, healthcare, education being the big things. You can keep your money so long as you're not keeping so much that folks are malnourished, dying from the elements or paying $800 bucks for insulin (like my Dad just did).
/. you're gonna get even if you don't ask): join the Democrat party so you can vote in their primary and put left wing, pro-worker folks in charge. Remember, so few folks show up to a primary that your vote has real power there. Politicians don't fear losing in the general, they fear the _primary_.
As for the GOP, they're the ones that want your money. They couldn't care less about your body & soul. Not the party leadership anyway. Take a look at their policy. Watch what they _do_ not what they say (otherwise the Evangelicals will make it look like the body/soul thing is real). They consistently push for policies that lower wages (free trade, more cheap work visas, Union busting) and put workers on edge (dog eat dog healthcare policy, support for payday loan vendors, allowing elevated lead in drinking water). Watch what they do and you'll see a pattern emerge.
This is not to say the Dems are blameless. The dominant wing of the party, the Clinton Democrats, are identical to the GOP. They're after the same thing: to shift as much money to their donors as possible while taking as much for themselves along the way. But the difference is that folks like AOC and Bernie Sanders exist and have significant power in the party. e.g. there is _something_ redeemable there. I don't know of anything even close to that in the GOP. Even Rand Paul falls in line when it's time to.
My advice (which being
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Seriously, you couldn't vote in the country unless you were a white landowner (and a specific shade of white at that, no we don't want the Irish) until fairly recently. And there's probably still folk alive who remember when dames couldn't vote. The civil rights movement is recent history and the gays are _still_ fighting for basic rights like the right to make purchases from public businesses and to marry (and losing a lot of those battles, I'll add, especially in light of the two new SCOTUS justices we just got).
This is not, nor has it ever, been the land of the free. That's just crap you were taught in school so you wouldn't do anything so ostentatious as try to make that silly little myth real.
And freedom, real freedom, is _economic_ freedom. Remember, you're not free so long as someone controls your access to food, shelter, healthcare, education & transportation. Until then you're one bad month away from being made to do whatever the hell somebody with money wants you to.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It is not uncommon to harvest fingerprints from gov't employees (police, firemen, emt, teachers, etc), as well as those subject to background checks like child care workers. I've worked in public K-12 education, and such measures are standard.
The new wrinkle is DNA. OK, maybe a good idea, maybe not - worth discussing IMHO - but asking new hires to pay for their background check is, again, standard.
And of course, the headline leaves open exactly who this applies to - "Arizonans" implies everyone, it actually applies to a very small subset of Arizonans, largely those paid by taxpayers to work in a position of trust (PD, FD, EMT, Teachers, Child Care, etc.).
Ken
Postal workers are federal, I agree politicians and other/all gov't workers should be subject to same scrutiny.
Ken
You're making the mistake that these folks are negotiating in good faith. It's a common mistake. People like to think that everyone has the country's best interests at heart and they're just going about it wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. The last several federal government shutdowns should have cured us of that misconception, but the notion was embedded in our heads when we were kids so it's tough as nails to dislodge.
There's something in the GOP called "Starve the Beast". It means intentionally wrecking the government in order to undermine faith in it. It is terrorism. No two bones about it. It's using fear and disorder for a political purpose, which is the definition of terrorism. This is that.
If the folks refuse then the GOP will be happy to fire them all and bring in scabs (look it up if you're too young to know what a scab is). If that happens they'll have achieved the long cherished goal of privatizing public services like education and police.
So go ahead. Let them refuse and get fired. The folks in charge send their kids to private schools where they'll fall in line. And the end result will be exactly what they want.
Like I said, you can't win when the other side isn't negotiating in good faith. It's why the Dems wouldn't cave on the last shutdown. We don't negotiate with terrorists, but sadly it seems we vote for them.
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Search and seizure? It's part of a background check that states have done for DECADES.
Don't want to be subject to this, find employment in the private sector.
This is the next logical step after collecting fingerprints since the middle of the last century.
Ken
so yeah, this matters to me.
I'm also _tremendously_ unlucky. I don't like to believe in fate but with the sheer number of bad things that happened to me in life outside my control I'm tempted to. If anyone could get a false positive that lands him (or a family member) in jail with $200k in legal bills to fight off a prosecutor it's me. And I'm a nerd, I'm not good looking enough to go in front of an American jury without the best lawyers money can buy.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Ticket sales would say otherwise
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Having DNA of all of us would solve crimes in numbers we can't appreciate. Imagine if the 11,000 children now held illegally by the border patrol could have their parents located by DNA testing. Charging people to post their own DNA however is the wrong way to go. it is the process of deduction rather than surveillance that gives DNA collecting do powerful. If the individual appears to have disappeared being able to quickly find his children and relatives may prevent a criminal from hiding and thus actually prevent crime. If you know you can't get away with it the chances are you'll never do that crime.
> I'm saying other racists think Donald Trump is a racist.
How can a person unfamiliar with elementary logic gets upmodded to max on a Slashdot?
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Although it doesn't fix it completely, there's a bit of positive news about civil forfeiture:
Supreme Court Limits Police Powers to Seize Private Property
Don't think they could enforce postal (federal) employees.
Just another day in Paradise
A racist supporting someone else doesn't make that someone a racist. But the left continues to push that logic failure.
Just another day in Paradise
I'm sure you speak for the rest of Europe and Asia. Clearly you have moral superiority (complex). As someone who's lived in both of those for many years, I'll just say you're full of shit. Do you ever wonder why, by a wide margin, the US has the largest immigration of any country on the planet? Yes, Europe and Asia have thousands of years of history, and the US only has a few hundred...so what? That doesn't mean that the US doesn't have Hollywood, Broadway, and great artists of every genre. We have a melting pot of culture.
Just another day in Paradise
The KKK were the violent political extreme of the Democratic Party. They're racist because the Democratic Party is racist. Regarding rape, i only know about Billy C. There are probably others. Baby killers is obvious; you may disagree with the politics of Pro-life groups, but you can't deny that post-birth humans are persons by law, and that viable third trimester fetuses are babies in everything except their uterine status. The existing Democratic Party also supports the KKK, but not openly. They also support the AntiFa who are the new racist KKK with a different style of masks. Don't believe me? Start doing some research into how many AntiFa thugs who get arrested for assaulting bystanders shout racial slurs at the bystanders, especially Hispanic bystanders.
Hey look! It's some guy that can't tell the different between the 1950's and today! It's like you don't even know that Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon were president. And stop it with your concern trolling about racism. Like you give a fuck.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
No. If I supported Clinton in the last Presidential election that wouldn't mean Clinton inherits my views on civil liberties. It simply means that her views align with mine enough that I think she would be a good leader. Similarly with Duke's support of Trump, I am guessing Duke thinks Trump's views align with his and those views may not be racism. Duke's support is unwanted in most circles but it is a bit of a leap to assume that support is given based on racism.
Oh? We don't know why David Duke thinks Donald Trump's views align with his own? Gosh, how could we find out? Maybe we could see what Mr. Duke has to say about the matter!
Now, who do you think he wants to take his country back from? The Democrats? Candy stripers and soda jerks? Keep in mind that when Trump was forced to make mouth noises about how hate has no place in this country, Duke replied thusly, "I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists."
So let's drop the pretense that we don't know why David Duke and the KKK support Donald Trump and think his views align with their own. It's a stupid game to play. Like I said, I'm not saying Donald Trump is a racist. I'm saying other racists think Trump is a racist. And they should know.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I'm not saying Trump is a racist; I'm saying other racists think Donald Trump is a racist. So congratulations.
A lie by insinuation. They simply support him as a government official-- presumably because they believe his policies are copasetic with their interests. That doesn't mean they think he's a rabid racist like they are, simply as an ally. And of course a government offal-- er-- official wants votes and support from whoever they can get it from.
Ah, so racism lite, then?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
A racist supporting someone else doesn't make that someone a racist. But the left continues to push that logic failure.
I specifically said I was not saying Trump is a racist. I'm saying other racists think Trump is a racist. It's one of the things they really like about him. But sure, keep pushing that logic failure.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
> I'm saying other racists think Donald Trump is a racist.
How can a person unfamiliar with elementary logic gets upmodded to max on a Slashdot?
By being correct. David Duke said, “We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”
From whom do you think he wants to take his country back? Keep in mind, he said this at a rally to oppose the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. What does he think are the promises of Donald Trump? Tax cuts for the rich, maybe? It's just so hard to tell!
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
You allege that undesired receipt of support from David Duke, a proven racist, confers bad status upon Donald Trump, or that David Duke even thinks Trump is racist, as opposed to Duke supporting Trump for economic or Immigration policies which happen to coincide with Duke's racist beliefs. You believe in a one-way propagation of racism and other monstrous behavior by being the target of support, or a two-way symbiosis of racism and other monstrous behavior by being the target of support. Please rethink your argument and restate.
I believe we can judge people by the company they keep. And there is no mystery as to why David Duke supports Donald Trump. "We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.” From whom does he want to take his country back? Democrats? High taxes? You think that's it? You may be right, considering how often David Duke and the KKK make public statements about economic issues. Maybe Duke was talking about tax cuts when he said that at a rally to oppose the removal of a Confederate statue! It's so hard to tell, eh?
How's that for a restatement?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Republicans like to talk about ayn rand until they're blue in the face.
As a sixty year old conservative, I've only heard mention of Rand by right leaning people a couple of times. It's the left that constantly harps on it. Your anecdotes and claims of "Most self proclaimed..." are not backed up by anything but your own imagination. Come back with some evidence if you wish to play in the sandbox.
Just another day in Paradise
Nominating for best non-car analogy of the month. Bravo!
Just another day in Paradise
A step in the right direction, at least!
Do you ever wonder why, by a wide margin, the US has the largest immigration of any country on the planet?
No, I don't.
mean that the US doesn't have Hollywood, Broadway, and great artists of every genre
Because Hollywood and Broadway still successfully tell the myth that a burger flipper can become a millionaire.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Nonsense. You can forgo the items listed above. You *do* have a choice. Of course it's one that carries with it consequences in terms of convenience and modern living. Previous generations also had this choice. We are use to paying certain utility bills every month for water, sewer, electricity, etc. 60+ years ago this was not automatic. Many did not like having reoccurring bills of this sort because they felt it was a form of servitude (I don't necessarily disagree). So they chose to go without. The result of their choice is that they found themselves "free" but increasingly isolated as their homes lacked running water, indoor bathrooms, air conditioning, etc.
Living free usually means living different. That's still true today.
The legislation, which just passed the Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee in a 5-3 vote that was about as party line as it gets (5 republican yes, 3 democrat no) and still needs to be voted on by the legislature, applies only to people licensed to provide direct care to mentally disabled patients in an intermediate care facility, and was initiated because some fuckwad raped and impregnated an incapacitated woman at the Hacienda Healthcare long term care facility.
So we are talking about legislation that affects at most a couple hundred people, in a state with six million citizens. Arizona already requires bio-data (read fingerprints) for tens of thousands of people who have jobs involving direct contact with their fellow AZ citizens -- everybody from cops and firemen, to school bus drivers and pharmacy technicians. This legislation requires a small subset of those people already required to provide biometric data to provide additional bio-metric data that would be *useful* in identifying somebody suspected of a heinous crime and clearing everybody else. And making them pay for it? Hey, it's Fiscally Responsible! (TM). They can write it off on their taxes, the way pharmacy techs write off the costs of their fingerprint cards.
Why is anybody getting their knickers in a twist over this?
Do you ever wonder why, by a wide margin, the US has the largest immigration of any country on the planet?
No, I don't.
mean that the US doesn't have Hollywood, Broadway, and great artists of every genre
Because Hollywood and Broadway still successfully tell the myth that a burger flipper can become a millionaire.
As a former burger flipper who's worth more than a million, I take exception to your bullshit.
Just another day in Paradise
I know better than to get political on slashdot because no good can come from it, but I've had a few drinks and I'll say this about Kavanaugh.
While Republicans were screaming their heads off about him being innocent until proven guilty, that's not what it was about at all. He was never on trial. He was being considered for a job promotion. And while you might have felt the accusations against him were BS and politically motivated, would you hire a babysitter who was accused, but never convicted, of being a child molester?
The guy still got on the Supreme Court and right-wingers are still claiming liberals ruined his life.
But even if you were sure all the accusations were bogus, he was still a drunk in high school and he DID lie about that. And he also lied about "boofing". I'm about Kavanaugh's age and I remember that slang word. It did NOT mean "farting".
The fact that a Supreme Court nominee could testify under oath during his nomination and say that with a straight face is enough for me not to want him on the Supreme Court. Of course, "boof" is a slang word for "butt fucking".
Even though I'm of a similar age as Kavanaugh, there's no way in hell that would have gotten into my private school's yearbook. Our teachers may not have been hip to all of our slang, but they weren't stupid. They also weren't Catholic priests.
And all this was glossed over for the more scandalous stories which could never be proven true or false. Ford and others accusing him was just a wicked game of he said/she said and everyone knew nobody could prove anything from the start.
But given Kavanaugh's big lie about wondering if his best male friend in high school had ever had anal sex and his propensity for drinking, I'd say he's not fit for the Supreme Court whether or not he ever even looked at Christine Blasey Ford with lust in his eyes.
Brett Kavanaugh was the kind of person who got expelled from the school I went to. In fact they did expel several students for drinking even though it was not during school and not on campus. Apparently at Bart O'Kavanaugh's school that kind of thing was overlooked and maybe even expected. Mark Judge's book "Wasted" should have been enough to sink Kavanaugh's nomination, but in this day and age it seems Republicans were willing to overlook how much of a piece of shit Kavanaugh was just to stick it to the libs..
One HUGE difference between the private school I went to and the one BK went to? Mine wasn't religious. If I had been a Senator I think I just would have asked BK 3 questions:
1: (I deleted this question because it wasn't really appropriate)
2: Do you really think we don't know what that word really means?.
3: (and I deleted the first part of this question too because it also was inappropriate, but I'm leaving the last bit). WTF is wrong with you?
Okay, maybe it's not actually fair to bring up a Supreme Court nominee's homosexual tendencies when considering him for the court, but the fact that he lies should be enough to reject him. (But if Republicans thought he was having anal sex with the other boys in his high school they never would have considered him)
But Republicans LOVE liars. Trump has surrounded himself with them and before you say he didn't know they were liars when he hired them, I would point out he just made Elliot Abrams special envoy to Venezuela - a guy who was convicted in a court of law for lying to Congress about his DEEP STATE dealings in Central America.
Much like Kavanaugh, I like beer and while I'd like to be on the Supreme Court, to be honest I think there are much better candidates than me or Bart O'Kavanaugh.
* And one final word. I kind of expect to be modded flamebait, but before you do that, read the post I'm responding to.
** Yeah, I was the one who totally took that flamebait.
*** To be fair, I think it's at least theoretically possible for a drunk POS to make fair decisions on the Supreme Court. Theoretically, anyway.