Google Says the Built-in Microphone it Never Told Nest Users About Was 'Never Supposed To Be a Secret' (businessinsider.com)

I thought it was kind of revealed... by SuperKendall · 2019-02-20 04:58 · Score: 2

In one of the responses from Nest I read, it seemed you could disable the microphone via the app - so maybe you could have known that way before?

They should have let users know for sure, I was just wondering if that control was there the whole time and few if any noticed.

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by jellomizer · 2019-02-20 05:06 · Score: 2

In a world of cheap hardware components, often devices have components that are not used, so they are not advertised. They may be a software update away from being used, but the software may just not use it, until later updates.
I have a System76 Laptop. There is an integrated fingerprint reader on it, however System76 never advertised it. Because it was a Linux Laptop and Linux doesn't support that type of fingerprint reader, however after installing windows on it as well, it did find and I can use the fingerprint reader.
System76 while moving to making their own devices, had been rebranding other makers laptops, that supported Linux. Now I am not pissed because the Fingerprint reader didn't work, because they never advertised that feature. But it was there and it actually works (in windows)
I expect the Nest probably had a speaker built in, and it wasn't used until later.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re: I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:08 · Score: 0

Oh man I could have put never supposed to be a surprise On my google buzzword bingo card. Easiest prediction ever. Too bad.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by AmiMoJo · 2019-02-20 05:13 · Score: 2

Companies rightly get flack for advertising features that don't actually work at launch and only get activated later with a software update. Sometimes they even get sued over it, e.g. Tesla with autopilot features.
On the other hand if they don't state up front that the hardware has something like a microphone, even if it doesn't do anything yet, the conspiracy theories start flying.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by SuperKendall · 2019-02-20 05:19 · Score: 2

For most un-revealed features I don't think it would be a big deal, but some people are careful not to buy devices that have microphones so I could see it being more of an issue that it turned out there was one...

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"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by fluffernutter · 2019-02-20 05:26 · Score: 3

So I don't have to know a hacker is one firmware away from activating the microphone in my device? Don't assume I am the only one altering the firmware.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by hawguy · 2019-02-20 05:27 · Score: 1

In one of the responses from Nest I read, it seemed you could disable the microphone via the app - so maybe you could have known that way before?
They should have let users know for sure, I was just wondering if that control was there the whole time and few if any noticed.
A software-disabled microphone is not the same as having no microphone at all, which is what many people thought they had.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by AmiMoJo · 2019-02-20 05:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you don't trust their security why are you buying an internet connected device from them in the first place?

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Immerman · 2019-02-20 05:35 · Score: 1

Agreed. Unmentioned hardware that would only be useful to the user is one thing. Unmentioned surveillance-capable hardware is something else entirely. At best you get conspiracy theories circulating - and quite possibly you get actual covert surveillance - either by the manufacturer themselves (we all trust Google not to spy on us, right?...Right?), or by hackers of various stripes.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by fluffernutter · 2019-02-20 05:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Trusting their security to keep the temperature of my home steady and trusting their security to not record everything my family is saying are two totally different things.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:09 · Score: 0

Google's protected by the "Don't ask, don't tell" rule that was instituted under Bush.
Gawd, you people will quip about any encroachment upon your freedom; get a gun!
CAP === 'inheres'
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:11 · Score: 0

I'm going to disagree. Way way back when, I took a college class where someone from RCA came in. Back when they still made TV's. The guy went on about cost is key in consumer and the 1/10th cent difference RCA paid for a 1/8 and a 1/4W resistor mattered when you multiply by millions. Google always knew they might turn on the mic. Mic's are more than 1/10th of a cent even in volume. Probably about 50c, which is not something hardware designers would leave in by accident. This is not repurposed hardware like your system76. This is purpose built hardware built to minimum cost.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by AmiMoJo · 2019-02-20 06:43 · Score: 1

For a criminal the temperature settings would probably be of more interest, to determine when you are out. Clearly if you can afford a Nest smart thermostat you have stuff worth stealing.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by lgw · 2019-02-20 06:53 · Score: 1

"Google is spying on you" is hardly a conspiracy theory - it's the fundamental truth of the modern age. Whether they're recording this microphone is dubious, but you can hardy be shocked when it turns out the thing you bought from Google is harvesting your personal data, however it does it.

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Your.Master · 2019-02-20 06:53 · Score: 1

At some level you did trust them in that you didn't thoroughly examine the device for hidden microphones. From this, I infer the real difference is you're generally willing to trust that hardware is sold exactly as advertised, no more and no less, but not software.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by ShanghaiBill · 2019-02-20 07:20 · Score: 1

Clearly if you can afford a Nest smart thermostat you have stuff worth stealing.
Not necessarily. One reason that burglaries have become less common is that most homes don't have much worth stealing anymore. Nobody has furs or silverware. People keep less cash. Guns are more likely to be securely locked up. Jewelry is less common, and harder to resell. Used electronic devices have very little resale value. Motion sensors and cameras raise the risk of getting caught.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 07:51 · Score: 0

the second bit isn't security.. it's straight-up trust. do you fucking TRUST them? can you trust google with your data? to not do anything evil with it? to not share it with anyone.. to not use it to augment other databases they have or have access to? .... ever? no you can't.
so get that google-developed internet-connected device out of your house. there's absolutely no reason for that device to even transmit or collect any information. everything a 'smart' thermostat can do, it COULD do with internal coding, and limited access to weather forecasts and conditions (from anonymous hits to nws or other countries' equivalents) and a table of energy costs for your locale (which for most would be a single entry for a single 24/7/365 cost per kwh). you don't fucking need google to horde a shit-ton of data on you, your family and your habits, you don't need them with the ability to record audio 24/7 in your home, in order for google servers to compute when the ac should be turned on.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by green1 · 2019-02-20 07:57 · Score: 1

The problem isn't in advertising hardware that doesn't work yet. The problem is in promising features or timelines and then failing to meet them. Tesla didn't get in trouble for putting hardware on it's cars that wasn't used yet. It got in trouble for selling a feature as imminent when it wasn't, and for advertising capabilities that were never delivered. There's a big difference.

There's nothing wrong with listing in the specs: "microphone (disabled at present, reserved for future firmware features)"

There IS something wrong with listing "Full control of all features through voice commands coming in the next few weeks through a firmware update" and then over a year later releasing a feature that uses the microphone to control one minor feature with a very specific keywords.

The problem doesn't arise from having future features that haven't launched yet. The problem arises from over promising and under delivering.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by thomn8r · 2019-02-20 08:46 · Score: 2

There is an integrated fingerprint reader on it, however System76 never advertised it.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to try and equate a hidden microphone with a very obvious fingerprint reader.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Solandri · 2019-02-20 10:13 · Score: 1

trusting their security to not record everything my family is saying
Little-known fact. Any speaker can be used as a rudimentary microphone, any microphone as a rudimentary speaker. The two devices are actually the same. One moves air in response to electrical impulses, one creates electrical impulses in response to air movement.

So if you're really concerned about your family's privacy, the key is not to give anything with a microphone or speaker Internet access.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by farble1670 · 2019-02-20 12:29 · Score: 1

So I don't have to know a hacker is one firmware away from activating the microphone in my device? Don't assume I am the only one altering the firmware.
If you think hackers can flash their own firmware on the devices on your network, you should really be freaking out. A microphone on your thermostat is the least of your worries. They could be flashing your router, your security cams, your phone. Be afraid.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 15:29 · Score: 0

...except you'd need an ADC hooked up to it in order to exploit that fact.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by fluffernutter · 2019-02-20 22:58 · Score: 1

If they are in the router business they will make it reasonably secure.. Whereas Google is known to be more focused on collecting data than security.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 02:16 · Score: 0

If you don't trust their security why are you buying an internet connected security device from them in the first place?
FTFY
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by pnutjam · 2019-02-21 02:37 · Score: 1

Because it was a Linux Laptop and Linux doesn't support that type of fingerprint reader, however after installing windows on it...
Your a monster, do you also get your jollies feeding ham to pigs and tuna to fish? What an abomination.
;)

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Cheap storage VM.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by fluffernutter · 2019-02-21 02:50 · Score: 1

I wish you were around when the guy broke my passenger window because I forgot to hide my $80 GPS.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 06:02 · Score: 0

TBF, he said "less common", not "gone entirely". I think it's interesting if it's true -- but I'll have to do some research on burglary statistics to find out for sure.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by aybiss · 2019-02-21 08:23 · Score: 1

No it's not two different things at all. It's a computer. That's like saying I trust Windows to protect me from a hacker from looking at my desktop but I don't trust it to protect me from a hacker intercepting my banking password.

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It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by farble1670 · 2019-02-21 11:00 · Score: 1

Whereas Google is known to be more focused on collecting data than security.
I guess you'd need to qualify that.
https://source.android.com/sec...
Read about Verified Boot and Trusted Execution. With regards to preventing malicious code from being flashed Android is very secure (as is iOS). That's what we're talking about here. If you want to turn this into a "Google steals my personal data" argument, I'm not biting.
Re:I thought it was kind of revealed... by fluffernutter · 2019-02-21 11:30 · Score: 1

If my computer doesn't have four wheels and an engine, I'm not going to worry about it driving out the front door.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Google knows you masturbate by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 04:59 · Score: 0

Enough said

Re:Google knows you masturbate by wooferhound · 2019-02-20 06:14 · Score: 3, Funny

>> Google knows you masturbate
Yeah , When are they going to tell us about the Camera ?

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We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
Re:Google knows you masturbate by Fwipp · 2019-02-20 07:07 · Score: 1

Everyone knows you masturbate. I mean come on, just look at you.
Re:Google knows you masturbate by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 07:49 · Score: 0

If you are over 15, one doesn't need to be Google to know that.
Re:Google knows you masturbate by PPH · 2019-02-20 10:37 · Score: 1

Google has been talking to ceiling cat?

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Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Google knows you masturbate by Scarletdown · 2019-02-20 11:35 · Score: 1

There are 10 types of people in the world; those who masturbate, and those who lie about it. I have no idea who the other 8 are.

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This space unintentionally left blank.
Re:Google knows you masturbate by reboot246 · 2019-02-20 14:56 · Score: 1

The other eight are the ones who don't know binary?

Was it in use prior to disclosure? by aicrules · 2019-02-20 05:00 · Score: 1

As long as it wasn't able to be used by google or anyone else prior to this update that made it a virtual assistant, then this isn't all that big a deal. It seems like a bigger deal mostly because privacy hyper-awareness. Now..is there also a camera hiding in there somewhere? That I'd be far more concerned with.

Re:Was it in use prior to disclosure? by AmiMoJo · 2019-02-20 05:04 · Score: 1

The only issue I could see is if you would not have bought it had you known about the microphone, but even then if they refused to give you a refund you would have to argue in court that disabling it in software was not adequate.
Hopefully Google will refund if asked, but unfortunately I don't think there is much of a legal leg to stand on here.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Was it in use prior to disclosure? by alvinrod · 2019-02-20 05:23 · Score: 2

There is some issue over whether or not you can trust that it's actually disabled. If you wanted to be certain, you'd need to disable it in hardware and require that such action not invalidate the warranty.
Re:Was it in use prior to disclosure? by Anubis+IV · 2019-02-20 05:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

As long as it wasn't able to be used by google or anyone else prior to this update that made it a virtual assistant, then this isn't all that big a deal.
Pragmatically and without surrounding context? Perhaps. But given the frequency and scope of privacy violations happening on a regular basis, I don't think it's "hyper-awareness" that's leading people to express concern over this revelation. I think it's simply one more link in a long and constantly growing chain of "coincidences", "accidents", and worse (e.g. negligence, intentional violation), each of which undermines our privacy and each of which have served to undermine the public's trust in the companies engaging in these practices.
If a friend every now and then started poking you so softly that you barely even noticed, you might dismiss it as an odd quirk, assuming you even noticed it. If, over the course of several years, this behavior escalated to the point that they're constantly flailing their arms, you won't be able to ignore it, particularly so if they deliver an occasional fist to your face. At some point most reasonable people would reconsider whether this "friendship" was worth the effort, but some people are more patient and tolerant than others, so they stick with that "friend". If one day this "friend" comes by your house for what has seemingly become a daily flailing session, only to head into your bedroom closet and come back out with a shovel, a tarp, and a box full of bleach, you'd have cause for concern. If they respond to your, "WHAT THE HELL?! WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?!", with an, "Oh, sorry, didn't I tell you that I shipped it here and snuck it into your closet a few years ago because I figured everyone loves this stuff? No? Oops!", you'd have good cause to question the motives and intent of this "friend" and whether they're actually looking out for your best interests.
For some, this mic may feel like the first fist to the face from someone they think their friend. For others, an undisclosed microphone being planted in their home is nothing short of a declaration of hostile intent. Either way, I haven't yet found a normal person who responded to the news with, "That's neat!"
Re:Was it in use prior to disclosure? by green1 · 2019-02-20 08:09 · Score: 1

Depends if the update is optional.

There's no problem with a company offering you additional features and functionality after purchase, however there is a problem if they force a change to the item that makes it less suitable for your use case.

Unfortunately the normal way this works is that security updates, bug fixes, and new features are all rolled together, so you don't have the option to pick and choose which you get. Assuming you have the option to opt out of updates at all (not always the case), this gives some people the very difficult choice of running a device with known security vulnerabilities, or having a device in their home that they're no longer comfortable being around.

As this is slashdot, let's do a car analogy (not sure why, but they seem mandatory around here):
Your car has an active recall for a safety defect that could lead to death in certain circumstances. You take your car to the dealer to get it fixed, and when you come to pick it up after the work you notice a new camera and microphone peering at you from the middle of the steering wheel. You learn that the car company is has added an "assistant" feature along with your recall, but you suspect they're really going to be monitoring everything that happens in the car from now on. It's hard to say that it's "no big deal" because after all, you agreed to the update. You had the choice of driving a known unsafe vehicle, or having them spy on you. You never would have bought the car if you'd known about the camera and microphone, but now what choice do you have?

That is, until it wasn't anymore by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:01 · Score: 0

Snark

If only someone had a screwdriver by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:04 · Score: 0

It isnt like a mic is hard to find. Pop the cover and look inside. Yeesh.

Re:If only someone had a screwdriver by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

Do you always dismantle everything you buy?
Re:If only someone had a screwdriver by green1 · 2019-02-20 08:10 · Score: 1

These days? it might be prudent....

The Error by NicknameUnavailable · 2019-02-20 05:06 · Score: 1

Was getting caught, it was malice that it wasn't included (just like it was malice that there were shills galore saying they didn't have cameras [in spite of accepting hand gestures] or microphones when the devices came out.)

Re:The Error by PPH · 2019-02-20 10:30 · Score: 1

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

We cannot rely on the net giants... by joestar · 2019-02-20 05:08 · Score: 1

My point of view is that the track record and business model of Google make them definitely out of the privacy game in term of credibility.
We need independent and Open Source solutions on the mobile (such as https://e.foundation/ and for personal assistant, just like Linux has a been the light in the 90s in a world dominated by proprietary Unix systems and Microsoft.
If we don't make this happen, freedom and democracy will turn into private totalitarism soon.
It's not too late..

Re:We cannot rely on the net giants... by postbigbang · 2019-02-20 05:21 · Score: 2

Don't worry. Like all Google products, the microphone was going to be discontinued in the Nest. If you'd like, take a soldering iron to the leads to disconnect it now, or wait for the Google + message that will signal the discontinuance.
In the meantime, I suggest running a small fan directly on the Nest to smooth its data, and mask your conversations.

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---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.

Sensors will be abused by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:09 · Score: 0

More concerned with a camera than being recorded 24/7?

Every sensory device that machines have will be abused. I don't care what the Google, Amazon, facebook or any other manufacturer says: it will be used and abused.

With corporate America, they are liars until proven otherwise.

Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by foxalopex · 2019-02-20 05:09 · Score: 1

I just had a hilarious thought, maybe google assumed that customers would realize there is a microphone in their product when you can talk to it? Unless they suddenly good at lip reading.

Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by Alain+Williams · 2019-02-20 05:16 · Score: 4, Funny

Unless they suddenly good at lip reading.
I assure you, Dave, that Google would never do that.
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:28 · Score: 0

People assumed they were buying a thermostat they can control from their phone. Maybe you talk to your thermostat. Most dont.
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by WillAffleckUW · 2019-02-20 05:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Unless they suddenly good at lip reading.
I assure you, Dave, that Google would never do that.
This conversation can serve no further purpose.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by cascadingstylesheet · 2019-02-20 05:57 · Score: 1

I just had a hilarious thought, maybe google assumed that customers would realize there is a microphone in their product when you can talk to it? Unless they suddenly good at lip reading.
You ... couldn't talk to it when they sold it to you.
That's the whole point. It wasn't sold as having that capability.
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by Killall+-9+Bash · 2019-02-20 06:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

Just wait till people realize there's a camera in the nest thermostats. Or maybe everyone thinks it's magic that the thermostat turns the heat / air on miraculously right when you stop in front of it, and reach out your hand to touch it. Nope, shouldn't have doubted the holy NEST. It knows what to do before I tell it. Definitely not a camera inside watching for when I'm about to press a button.

Think im making it up? Try it. Stop in front of your nest thermostat,and reach towards it. See what happens.

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"Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 09:14 · Score: 0

Khazar Talmudic Jews believe this of all they call goyim/gentiles (any non-jew): Jews = biggest racists of all for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Peron, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No. Driven into DESERTS ages ago! Don't wonder why after all those exilings above.
Should anyone doubt any of this see Jacob Javits' crony Rosenthal spill the beans on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4zMVZ8HnFI/ where he called all Christianity fools for helping Israel and the biggest scam of all time per their beliefs below from their Talmud.
This is the province of the synagogue of Satan (Pharisees whom Jesus Christ himself kicked to the curb out of the temple & they killed him for it. Jeremiah did the same to them also + the Essenes could not stand them either breaking away from the pharisee corruption):
Jew Talmud excerpts (the book that calls Christ's mother a whore & a bastard of a roman soldier):
1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
4. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
5. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
6. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
7. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
8. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
9. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
10. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
11. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
12. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."
13. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."
14. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."
15. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
16. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."
17. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."
18. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."
19. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."
20. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."
21. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen H
Re:Maybe Google thought their users were smart? by bill_mcgonigle · 2019-02-20 15:54 · Score: 1

your nest thermostat
The last thing I need is to worry about outages on my thermostat. Jesus, the 4-cycle programmable gizmo I picked up at Home Depot in 1994 for $17.50 works fine - I feed it for AA batteries every two years and we don't argue.
I guess when I have more houses than a Socialist politician I'll start to fret about such things.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

WTF Google? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:13 · Score: 0

Like really... transparency up front is quite needed. Anyway, I won't be buying these spy-on-me sensors for my house. Just a little too creepy for me. Recently an acquaintance who is a little too trusting of people leaves his doors unlocked sometimes... one day he found a raspberry pi sitting between his home router and ISP equipment. He got it looked at by an IT friend who said something to the effect of "they mostly were recording when you were home or away".

I suppose this was a more involved burglary in progress. Weird ass shit I tell you. When Google and the street thugs are after the same thing it does not give me a warm fuzzy.

Not less than weird by aglider · 2019-02-20 05:14 · Score: 1

If it was me, a common man, who makes a project a forgets to mention a detail, then it would be a mistake.
For a company like Google, to wire a microphone to the innards of its security device, it is definitely not.
Please, Mr Google, admit you did that on purpose and got caught with the hands in the candy jar.
Please, publish a paper to physically remove or disable that part.

Then, my personally humble opinion, this thing of these devices connected to the internet is getting scarier and scarier.

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Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.

Re: Not less than weird by astrofurter · 2019-02-20 19:05 · Score: 1

Don't you just love the smell of cybernetic totalitarianism in the morning?
Re: Not less than weird by aglider · 2019-02-20 22:18 · Score: 1

Don't you just love the smell of cybernetic totalitarianism in the morning?
Only if blended with Napalm.

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.

Why did you trust Google? by Kohath · 2019-02-20 05:15 · Score: 1

Nest devices were instantly crossed off my list as soon as Google bought Nest. Why would you install any sort of Google monitoring device in your home with Google's track record for collecting and storing data regardless of the ethics or propriety of doing so?

Chickens invite wolves to guard henhouse, are surprised at the results.

Re:Why did you trust Google? by ArhcAngel · 2019-02-20 06:05 · Score: 1

I got a hub just so I could ask "Hey Google, At what point did Alphabet become a criminal organization?". It still isn't as witty with comebacks as Alexa.

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"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

"First, be Evil" by WillAffleckUW · 2019-02-20 05:39 · Score: 2

Glad to see Google is living up to their corporate motto

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --

Re:"First, be Evil" by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2019-02-20 07:26 · Score: 1

To quote Dr. McCoy: "I've found that Evil usually triumphs - unless Good is very, very careful".

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#DeleteChrome

"Don't Be Evil".... by ntsucks · 2019-02-20 05:44 · Score: 2

Unless you can make money doing it.

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Those who can do. Those who can't sue.

Re:"Don't Be Evil".... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:38 · Score: 0

Man... I kind of miss Google from the early 2000s.

Ask for a refund by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 05:51 · Score: 0

I don't want a microphone in the damn thing...

Re:Ask for a refund by green1 · 2019-02-20 08:13 · Score: 1

Might work in Europe where they have the concept of consumer protection, but I doubt you'd get far trying that in North America.

Countdown to a class action suit starting by Larry+Lightbulb · 2019-02-20 05:59 · Score: 1

Knowing there's a microphone in an Internet connected device and still buying it is something that people make a conscious decision to do - but if you don't know there's a microphone then the company just saying it was an error isn't enough.

When will people learn? Will they ever? by Rick+Schumann · 2019-02-20 06:05 · Score: 1

Come on, humans, stop bringing always-on/always-connected surveillance devices into your homes. Isn't it bad enough most of you carry a mobile wireless surveillance platform with you all day every day, you have to have them in every room of your house, too? Please, humans, you're embarassing yourselves.

It should amaze me that anyone buys their hardware by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:06 · Score: 0

It should amaze me that anyone buys google hardware (synonym for spyware). Yet I'm long past being amazed at how stupid people can be. People buy wifi routers from google that can only function when integrated with google cloud. The capacity for people to do stupid things is beyond limit.

You're a boring faggot Ken Doll by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 06:21 · Score: 0

You're too dumb to understand.

You mean you have never.... by Pitawg · 2019-02-20 06:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

You mean you have never searched behind your cable box IR filtered face using a digital camera? You know, to see the board mounted camera modules facing you TV consumers, that report which family members were watching the garbage on the screen? Like an IR snapshot every time the IR remote button is pressed, to log the one that did not like what was on, and what they changed it to? Why would they not be tracking how much income they are getting for the ads they see noone is watching, to determine the ratio of the swindle's profit from the ad buyers?

This built-in mike thing is only audio. Well, the sonar images of the room, and people within, are useful. Also the intel of whether or not competing voice assistants are being used, that can aid plans as well.

A Tale of Two Privacy Policies by Rick+Zeman · 2019-02-20 06:48 · Score: 1

Something tells me that using Google Home inside of a Nest device would allow Google's "Anything Goes" (lack of) privacy policy to supersede Nest's much more restrictive one.
I won't be enabling this Trojan Horse, thank you. I'll do things the old-fashioned way and push the damn button myself.

Goog Sounds Like China by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 07:32 · Score: 0

Going to China was a horrible mistake by Nixon and it was an even bigger one by Google. They sounds like an official arm of Poohbears policy team in all their communications. Top-down fascist fuckyou level speak. SAD.

Re: Do you not?? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 07:39 · Score: 0

The NSA has intercepted routers mid-shipment and backdoored them. The Chinese did the same thing to server motherboards recently.

How THE FUCK do you not inspect your electronics? Do you just blindly ear out of cans without inspecting your foodstuff for machine parts or a workers thumb??

Lol by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 08:43 · Score: 0

"Error on our part." They just rub this shit in your face...

JEWgle are PERFIDIOUS Juden by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 09:12 · Score: 0

Khazar Talmudic Jews believe this of all they call goyim/gentiles (any non-jew): Jews = biggest racists of all for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Peron, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No. Driven into DESERTS ages ago! Don't wonder why after all those exilings above.

Should anyone doubt any of this see Jacob Javits' crony Rosenthal spill the beans on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4zMVZ8HnFI/ where he called all Christianity fools for helping Israel and the biggest scam of all time per their beliefs below from their Talmud.

This is the province of the synagogue of Satan (Pharisees whom Jesus Christ himself kicked to the curb out of the temple & they killed him for it. Jeremiah did the same to them also + the Essenes could not stand them either breaking away from the pharisee corruption):

Jew Talmud excerpts (the book that calls Christ's mother a whore & a bastard of a roman soldier):

1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

4. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

5. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

6. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

7. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

8. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

9. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

10. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

11. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

12. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

13. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

14. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

15. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

16. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

17. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

18. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

19. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

20. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

21. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen H

Translation by greylion3 · 2019-02-20 09:21 · Score: 1

Damage control.

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Privacy begins with ..

Let's Suppose by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 09:45 · Score: 1

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Google is being 100% truthful here. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! They just forgot to mention the microphone in their marketing.

OK, then. People are bringing this device into their homes. It's supposed to be a thermostat, even if a smart one. Can you understand how people might be a little alarmed to discover, that the thermostat might have been listening to them? Without permission, without notification, without any by-your-leave?

I think people understand that Google Home devices have microphones, that it's a 2-way communications device. But a thermostat?? Yeah, it's a "Nest Secure", but Nest built it's brand upon being a better thermostat.

Face-palm!

Ad company by AHuxley · 2019-02-20 10:18 · Score: 1

is going to voice print.

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Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"

JEWgle are PERFIDIOUS Juden by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-20 10:43 · Score: 0