Workplace Theft Is On the Rise (theatlantic.com)

rfengineer tipped us off to this story. The Atlantic reports: Your office is a den of thieves. Don't take my word for it: When a forensic-accounting firm surveyed workers in 2013, 52 percent admitted to stealing company property. And the thievery is getting worse. The Association of Certified Fraud Examiners reports that theft of "non-cash" property -- ranging from a single pencil in the supply closet to a pallet of them on the company loading dock -- jumped from 10.6 percent of corporate-theft losses in 2002 to 21 percent in 2018. Managers routinely order up to 20 percent more product than is necessary, just to account for sticky-fingered employees.

Some items -- scissors, notebooks, staplers -- are pilfered perennially; others vanish on a seasonal basis: The burn rate on tape spikes when holiday gifts need wrapping, and parents ransack the supply closet in August, to avoid the back-to-school rush at Target. After a new Apple gadget is released, some workers report that their company-issued iPhone is broken -- knowing that IT will furnish a replacement, no questions asked. What's behind this 9-to-5 crime wave? Mark R. Doyle, the president of the loss-prevention consultancy Jack L. Hayes International, points to a decrease in supervision, the ease of reselling purloined products online, and what he alleges is "a general decline in employee honesty."
The report advises companies that the best way to reduce fraud was with surprise audits and data monitoring.

Another interesting statistic? "Fraudsters" who'd been with their company for more than five years "stole twice as much."

Comments

An idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they tried not treating their workers like shit? Won't stop all theft, but should reduce it.

Re:An idea

[hey!]

There's been a shift. When I was young, people normally stayed at jobs for ten or more years; it wasn't unusual for people to get out of school, get a job, and work at the same place until retirement. Relationships lasted beyond retirement with people taking company pensions (now largely raided to prop up executive compensation).

The thing is, that's not *agile*. Companies hire and let go workers as needed; there's no sense that there's loyalty owed either way. The people working for you are like strangers you give the keys to your house to. The median duration of employment for someone 25-34 is about three years.

Re:An idea

[LostMyAccount]

It's funny how they don't talk about the declines in wages as being a cause of this.

Asking a "loss prevention" consultant for their opinion? That's like asking Ebeneezer Scrooge why Bob Cratchit's family is going hungry.

Re:An idea

[Anonymous Coward]

While yes, this would be the best case scenario, the problem tends to fork into several categories.

1) The main reason for theft is forgetfulness, not malice.

My current employer at some point issued no less than THREE laptops to the same person. This is because they would forget to bring the laptop and thus be given a loaner, and then they would just forget to ever bring that laptop back. I've had employees admit to me that they still have "the old one" in a drawer somewhere.

2) The main reason for replacement is obsolescence, not theft.

My current employer replaces laptops every three years on the dot. Regardless if the laptop is current vintage or still under warranty. So there's been cases where a new hire gets a brand new laptop, and then their "new" laptop comes in and the previous one, which might be a month old just gets put on a shelf somewhere, warranty time ticking away. Of course the opposite is true too, there's several employees who are using 4 and 5 year old laptops because they somehow got lost in the replacement queue. So what happens? a new laptop is ordered for them, and then a week later, another laptop is ordered for them, because somehow it didn't get recorded.

3) The smaller the item, the less people remember to return it.

This is why when someone forgets a laptop, I try to give them the larger, heavier, older, model. No new laptop for you.

4) Site administration staff aren't familiar with equipment specs, so they will frequently order under-provisioned or over-provisioned hardware.

I've found two versions of every model laptop and desktop in the office. They're identical except for things like webcam, security slots, finger print sensors, extra hard drives and other fringe features that nobody uses.

5) Nobody upgrades the hardware except under pain of paperwork

Every single one of these laptops, are ordered with half the capable ram, and half the capable hard drives. I could upgrade each of these $3000 laptops with larger SSD and RAM for about $1000, and they would be good for another two years.

Overall when it comes to expensive kit, businesses are not doing proper audits, and some kit just gets thrown out, or put on a shelf when it could be reused.

Small items, like sticky notes, tape, reams of paper printer, and such, disappear because people don't place a value on it. Every nth desk I go to, someone has one or two reams of paper on their desk to raise the height of their computer screen. Because that's less annoying than requesting a proper monitor arm for their screens.

Re:An idea

[Austerity Empowers]

You read it here, workers who are at an employer more than 5 years steal twice as much! Gotta fire em quick.

I worked in a place once that provided free soda to employees. For a while it worked, then we crossed a threshold of about 70 employees and stupid shit started happening. People walking out with costco containers of soda, etc. We knew who it was and we did give them grief, but some people are immune to peer pressure, and the boss doesn't fire based on hearsay. So they put in a vending machine (I don't know where it came from), and charged $.01 per soda. You could still "buy" 36 packs of soda for far less than they cost at Costco, but nobody did. The transaction process was enough, and pennies were always around as a result, so it was no big deal and we could still have nice things.

The problem is that vending machines are designed for soda, but office supplies tax even the most flexible machine. There are software and tools that can provide a functional equivalent, but they usually cost more than the problem is worth. And thus this story isn't really that interesting: a decision was made, and the problem wasn't worth a solution.

Re:An idea

[dcw3]

Yeah, and I suppose this makes it okay to be a thief. WTF is this generation coming to?

Re:An idea

[djinn6]

Or you could put up a camera where the soda is and record anyone stealing. Just need to fire one of them before the rest gets the idea.

Re:An idea

[LostMyAccount]

First of all Junior, I'm 52, so I don't know what the fuck generation you're talking about.

I also challenge the entire narrative of "more theft" taking place. Random small quantities of office supplies have walked away for decades, mostly inadvertently. I mean what are you going to do, steal a box of copier paper and sell it on the corner?

I also don't believe people can just smash their iPhones on purpose and get new models. The last group of people any IT department wants to reward is the moron that conveniently breaks their device. An exec might get away with it, but that shit's expensive and it would call attention to whoever did it more than once. They'd get canned or be required to keep it in a giant Otterbox type case.

Whatever meaningful theft might be happening probably is an externality of 21st century capitalism. They shitcanned all the middle managers whose job it was, basically, to keep track of stuff. Just-in-time delivery means there's little planning and with the emphasis on rush shipping on everything, I'm sure the losses through outright mistakes in order fulfillment, delivery, etc are fairly high.

I think is two things, one, a chance for employers to bitch about employees depriving them of their right and true profits through waste and thievery. And two, a way for employers to shift the burden of bad management onto their employees. Fuck them. If they weren't so greedy and self-dealing, they could keep track of their resources better.

Re:An idea

[thegarbz]

I also don't believe people can just smash their iPhones on purpose and get new models.

And yet you'd be amazed at how often I've seen this, and those people do take a bit of care when doing it, i.e. it's oh too convienent when it happens every time a new iPhone comes out. But every second time, and random months after release? What's IT gonna do? You need the device for your work, there's legitimate ways it could have broken. You want to get in a he-said she-said argument while no work gets done?

This does happen and we oh so laughed at someone I know who did it when he was given the same old Galaxy S5 in this case because they still had some new in storage to exhaust.

However then you have to ask, is there a benefit in giving your employees old shit hardware that takes forever to open an email and can't tether at LTE-A speeds limiting their ability to use their laptops on the go? There's dicks all around in this equation.

Re:An idea

[LostMyAccount]

I completely agree that too often management makes people use obsolete hardware needlessly.

I work for an IT consulting firm, maybe 50-some employees and they make people use some of the most ridiculously old laptops. I mean, we're an IT consulting firm, what does it look like when I show up with a shit-ass old computer? "Hi, please spend money on technology, we don't."

A lot of companies I work with literally have no end user computing life cycle plan. They push all the equipment way past it's useful lifetime, I'm talking 7-8 year old desktops sometimes. I've spent 2 hours "fixing" them because they're so slow, stuff that would be under 15 minutes if it was a modern system. And then they have a flurry of equipment replacement, and then wonder why they (again) have a giant bubble of obsolete machines that require a forklift upgrade.

I preach that they replace 20-25% of machines per year, regardless of whether "it still works". This makes the oldest tier 4-5 years at most, and they have a predictable pace and process from a cost and labor perspective, ideally distributed throughout the year.

Re:An idea

[apoc.famine]

Eh, this whole story is bullshit anyway. "The Association of Certified Fraud Examiners reports that...." So an organization which gets paid to find problems reports that said problems are increasing. Wow. Who would have seen THAT coming?

Re:An idea

[supremebob]

Yeah, I'd imagine that I too would "steal" company supplies to wrap my Christmas gifts at work if I was forced to work crazy overtime in December. Somehow it's not considered wage theft when you're on salary, so don't be suprised if you have to go through hell to help meet some arbitrary ''End of Q4" deadline from your manager.

Re:An idea

[imidan]

I worked in an office where we had a mini fridge with a coffee cup sitting on top. You threw a quarter in the cup and took a soda from the fridge. Most people were pretty honest about paying. At one point, I became the person in charge of collecting the quarters and buying soda to stock the fridge. I discovered that the whole system worked at a surprisingly large profit. At the time, a 12-pack cost about $2 at the local grocery store, but at $.25 per can, we were reselling the 12-pack for $3. I used the profits to expand the selection and make other small improvements.

It later occurred to me that all the people before me who had this job must have just been pocketing the profits, since they'd apparently just disappeared.

fill out 5 forums just to get a pen?

[Joe_Dragon]

fill out 5 forums just to get a pen?

Re:fill out 5 forums just to get a pen?

[Anonymous Coward]

that is a lot of forums.

Re:fill out 5 forums just to get a pen?

[Krishnoid]

Um, with what?

Re:fill out 5 forums just to get a pen?

[Whorhay]

Getting office supplies where I work is a PITA as well. I used to bring in my own pens but could never keep them as people were continually snatching them off my desk. Now I just keep a few mechanical pencils, nobody wants a pencil for whatever reason.

Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[rsilvergun]

It's not worth getting in trouble for snagging office supplies most of the time, but if you're struggling to make ends meet and your school just sent home a giant list of crap you need for your kid then suddenly it's worth it.

I remember being pretty shocked when even in high school I had to come up with $50-$100 bucks a month in various supplies for my kid's school projects. Crap that, when I was a kid (before the funding cuts of the mid 90s and 2000s) was just part of school.

A buddy of mine recently moved from a poor district to a rich one after saving the down payment to buy a house and was shocked by how much he was saving on school supplies because the school had things like paper, pencils and art supplies.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Anonymous Coward]

The economy isn't "worsening" nor would that be an excuse to steal.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

but if you're struggling to make ends meet and your school just sent home a giant list of crap you need for your kid then suddenly it's worth it.

You don't actually have to send all those supplies to school.

Schools send out ridiculous lists because they work on the Robin Hood principle: Only a subset of parents actually send supplies, and the teachers redistribute from that stash to everyone else who have "hardships".

One year we were told to send twelve dozen sharpened pencils for each student. Taken literally, that would imply that each kid was using up a whole pencil almost every day. We usually just rounded those requests down to a reasonable amount, plus maybe a little extra to donate to the have-nots.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

I am not a company owner, but if I were I would not care one bit if employees were taking pens home. I wouldn't even call that stealing. Take them if they want. I would put a basket in the front labeled, "Free Pens." Because seriously, if pens make people happy......such a small expense for improving office morale. And why not, a free red stapler at every desk.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Mr D from 63]

Reading the article, there is no evidence theft is on the rise. Its always been pretty common. I remember the supply room at a plant construction site was called 'the freebee room" where folks helped themselves to work gloves, marker, duct tape, safety glasses, etc. Some of that ended up at flea markets I believe.

I take paper and pads and stuff like that home because I work at home many days. I use my own power, printer ink, internet connection, etc. So there is a very fair trade off if I happen to use some of that paper for a personal task.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Mr D from 63]

The economy isn't "worsening" nor would that be an excuse to steal.

With low unemployment, there are more thieves working today than ever!

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[guruevi]

Actually it's the other way around. All stats show that the more you make the more you steal. It correlates also with how long you've been at the company and thus can "get away with".

So a better economy would translate in higher theft since "the company is doing better now, they can afford some losses".

In the end it's just part of doing business, would you fire your best for taking a pen or a $5 box of pens? Electronics similarly are both insured and replaced through leases at virtually no cost. I've never had electronics disappear through third party theft, but the insurance doesn't go down so an employee needing a replacement at the end of the useful lifespan is better for me in the end.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Anonymous Coward]

Jpaine demonstrates once again the value of education, and the perils of not getting one.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[AmiMoJo]

Problem is someone will open an eBay store selling pens.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Code Herder]

Honestly, if HR came to me and said one of my employee took a pen home and I needed to deal with it Iâ(TM)d probably think it was a joke. The issue is not people taking the odd pen home which theyâ(TM)ll probably use to work on firm stuff anyways, its people taking supplies wholesale. I had to deal with a few such odd case where grown ass adult making 70-80k a year were stealing boxes of rechargeable batteries ( gaming industry, remote batteries ). Weâ(TM)re not in the valley where that would be a low wage, here it was reslly good.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Solandri]

Pens are probably not the best example. When I was working at a hotel, we accidentally ordered a 200-pack of the expensive high-end luxurious soft bath towels instead of the standard grade ones. The customers really liked them (we got numerous unsolicited comments about how nice they were), so we were mulling the possibility of switching to them permanently. The housekeeping staff didn't report any problems with them wearing out in the wash faster than the regular towels (industrial washing machines are not kind on textiles). Normally 200 towels would last about 1-2 years before they'd wear out and we'd have to order new ones. But the luxury ones lasted less than 6 months before we were down to a couple dozen.

There was no proof, but the obvious suspicion was that employees were simply taking them home (they were really nice) and either giving them out to friends and relatives or selling them. Overall they represented the loss of about $1500 (luxury towel cost minus 6 months of regular towel cost), and we decided not to switch because of the rampant theft. Since the hotel only had about 70 employees and the end-of-year bonus pool was a percent of the profit, basically each employee chipped in $20 of their annual bonus to buy towels for a few thieves.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Anonymous Coward]

had it occurred to you that your fucking customers probably stole all your nice towels

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

Awesome. Good for you... Except for the part where I get the feeling you're trying to justify it..

Nah. I get paid enough I don't need to steal pens, and I'm too picky to use the company supplied pens. I bring my own too work.

You being fine with giving away pens doesn't mean I am.

OK, so you suck. What else do you want me to tell you about yourself?

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Krishnoid]

Do you have a link to these or something comparable? I'm trying to get a sense of how nice these really are relative to the kinds you can order in bulk for hotels.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[dgatwood]

One year we were told to send twelve dozen sharpened pencils for each student.

Who wants to bet someone wrote down 12 (dozen) pencils, and someone dropped the parentheses?

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Anonymous Coward]

"the end-of-year bonus pool was a percent of the profit"

So it's not $20 for each of the 70 employees, it's a percent of $20. Which is total peanuts. Your hotel decided not to switch to nice towels which make both staff and more importantly, customers happy, just to save a minute fraction of money. You probably lost far more money in bad reviews and unhappy staff by using the crappy towels.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

I'm sure that it was 144 pencils. They used to specify N boxes of pencils, they actually most likely phrased it as "Six boxes of 24-pencils each, sharpened". For other years, it was usually a slightly smaller, but still ridiculous, number, like four boxes.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

OK, so you suck. What else do you want me to tell you about yourself?

I know you're a hypocrite. I bet you'd object to one of your house guests walking off with items you own, without asking first. So.. fuck you...

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

Who said there's no coercion? I said force.. But coercion can still be applied. Public shaming for example... Not gonna take the kids long to figure out which kids are poor and are receiving free pens...

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[dcw3]

Only a subset of parents actually send supplies, and the teachers redistribute from that stash to everyone else who have "hardships".

Maybe that's how it works in your district. It wasn't the case where we live (Fairfax Co., VA), which has one of the best funded systems around. You learn not to balk at the list if you don't want your kids grades to suffer. They teach political bribery early in the DC suburbs.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[dcw3]

So, you wouldn't have anyone on the payroll making minimum wage?

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

I am not sure if I've worked at a place where anyone got paid minimum wage in a while. The last time that happened was when I worked construction in college.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[dcw3]

So, no admins, mail room, etc? Most every large company has some low paid folks. And pretty much every type of franchise business too. Small businesses are frequently living on the edge, which is one of the reasons so many of them fail. So, it's critical for them to keep their overhead costs down...including office supplies. Obviously, you have to do something to keep employee moral up too, but there are plenty of options there.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

So, no admins, mail room, etc?

Admins definitely get paid more. We've had HR, we've had janitors, but I think they've all gotten paid more than minimum wage. I honestly have never looked in the mailroom, so I can't comment on that.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[rtb61]

Disposable workers == disposable employers == disposable customers. Workers are thieving at every opportunity, stuff they do not even need, they just had that opportunity because the know, they full well know the company does not give one crap about them and as such they don't give one crap about the company or it's customers. Why the fuck not, compared to what the executives steal at the top, the works down the bottom are stealing nothing, no matter how much they steal.

Company makes records profits, not enough, sack more workers to further pump up the executive bonuses, even if it damages the company a year latter, so what, more money this quarter fuck everything else. So workers, the opportunity arises, they steal, why the fuck not, next month no matter how hard they work, the top dick executives bonuses not high enough, that worker is fired.

No employee == no company loyalty == no customer loyalty. Psychopathic capitalism in full stride. Anything the executives can steal, they will, anything the staff can steal they will and anything customers can steal they will and it doesn't end their, this kind of corruption spreads, so anything that government agencies can steal, they will and US society collapses as a result of psychopathic myopic greed and routinely unprosecuted corruption.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

Anyone who is so poor that they need to steal pens to survive should learn how to clean houses, because you can make a lot more money doing that.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Please call it what it is.. Communism. Perhaps not by force, but it's still communism.

LOL, you had me going for a while- I actually thought you were serious, but this gave it away. Well played, sir, well played indeed.

You know what else is communism? When someone plays a radio and other people nearby get to hear the music for free. Next thing you know they want affordable healthcare and a living wage! That's the kind of socialist-commie-pinko hooliganism that's destroying America.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Not gonna take the kids long to figure out which kids are poor and are receiving free pens...

Wait, you're against kids getting a free pen? That is a horrific occurrence, let us all bow our heads and pray that some sicko doesn't give them paper and textbooks too.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

I'm against communism and coercion. If the school needs pens, make the giving anonymous. But gathering up all the supplies from the students and redistributing them is not okay.. Something doesn't have to be a capital crime to fall on this side of "not cool". For fuck's sake... Why should Parent A, who paid for their supplies, have to donate them to Parent B?

Is it nice to do so? Of course! But it should not be mandatory.. Why can't you people understand this?

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

It is destroying America.. The problem is the mindset of "what is yours is mine by birthright". The list never ends... It was food.. then healthcare.. Now it's fucking cell phones.. What's next? Oh yeah.. A free wage to do nothing a la UBI... Next it'll probably be free cars... But nothing, and none of it, is free.

You asshats see "pens" and think "no big deal" and it wouldn't be if the line didn't keep getting pushed back further and further and further...

It's a simple thought experiment that illustrates the larger problem: If tomorrow the government decided everyone had the inalienable right to electricity, and the government would pay for it, how long until we had electrical shortages? Who would give a fuck about setting the thermostat to 68? You'd just crank it up (or down in the summer) and fuck all the savings.. it's FREE!!!!

I know two people who get those free cell phones that CA hands out.. 1 is on his 5th because he can't remember to take it out of his pants before he throws them in the washing machine... The other is on her third, I think.. She's been losing them.. But who the fuck cares? He, quite literally and with no sense of shame, said "Yeah, washed my phone again last night.. No biggie, I'll go down and get a new one tomorrow.. I just have to bring back the broken one.." Why the fuck would he care? There's no lesson... If I wash my phone I have to BUY another one... You learn pretty goddamn quick to take care of your stuff when you pay for it.

Now I can't wait to hear how this logic is racist and anti-poor people.. Have at it...

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

No, but if I entered your house I might smash some things and laugh.

Yeah.. good luck with that.. I'm one of those evil conservatives who owns a fuckload of guns..

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

Yeah.. good luck with that.. I'm one of those evil conservatives who owns a fuckload of guns..

I'm a better shot.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

You missed the whole point of my original post: It's not mandatory. Just don't send the excessive supplies. We didn't.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

Just to clear this up in my head.. Are you saying that you limit what your kid takes to school so the excess is not collected?

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

Unlikely. I was trained by the Department of Defense.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

Oh. I hope you're not a marine.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

I don't know why you're so torqued out over an obviously silly request from some school administrator. We simply weren't going to send 144 pencils for one school year, and I doubt that many other parents did either. In fact, I doubt that anybody ever actually checked what any kids actually brought.

You need to chill out. It wasn't some communist takeover. And I bet most of the things you worry about and keep you awake at night are also not communist takeovers.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

You'd be incorrect. I actually do worry about the entitled people who are dead set on turning this country into Venezuela. They never learn.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

Nope. But your tone suggests you're one of those pussies who didn't serve at all.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

Your worry is misplaced. This country may be at significant risk of turning into a banana republic, but the chance of it becoming a left-wing banana republic is zero.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[TimMD909]

144 was the highest I ever got in my times tables...

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

Whatever, you're the asshole who brought up breaking into my home. I simply stated that would be a bad idea. I seriously doubt you could hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

No it's not.. Nothing in politics is ever zero and the fact that Brooklyn elected a goddamn communist to sit in Congress is worrying.. Not by itself, but if this becomes a trend....

In the 1950s, if you had suggested we'd get to a point where our government would be spying on us (NSA metadata, et al) by the millions, you'd have been laughed out of the room.

Freedom requires vigilance. If for no other reason than humans are lazy and will always try to take the shortcut.. I'm surprised the American people have tolerated asset forfeiture.. Blatantly unconstitutional, yet absolutely pervasive..If they'll tolerate that, what won't they tolerate?

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[epine]

So I'm thinking hard about a work problem on the morning commute for half an hour (which I never bill), and I'm supposed to worry about saving myself a trip to Office Depot to replenish a few pads of note paper, by stuffing my rucksack with a couple of pads from office supplies?

True, my employer has good reason to be pissed off: I might have invested 15 unbilled minutes into resolving a work problem in the car on the drive across town.

Compared to a pen, the loss of 15 unbilled minutes they might have otherwise claimed practically amounts to grand theft.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[phantomfive]

I seriously doubt you could hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun.

I assure you I can, drunk.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[del_diablo]

It sorta is, but it scales with operation.
So in construction you have a lot of disposeable items that can be single use, for safety. Nitril and work gloves are good examples, because a small team can quickly spend 100-200 gloves per month if the work demands it. It quickly turns into the same economic scale as pencils: Extremely disposable.
Copy paper is also on the same scale, because even a small 4-5 man team can effortlessy use 2000-3000 pages a month at a small operation. At a larger operation it becomes even cheaper, and the use increases.
The issue is similar on staplers and a lot of cheaper office devices. Nothing is generally stopping you from buying them in significant bulk.

Other cases is surplus or waste. I.e surplus shapes of metal, frames, wood, and a lot of other material. Material that is somewhat expensive, but generally can't be used effectively once cut or shaped.
The leftovers is a common good in such enterprises, which can be used for a lot of really cool things.
Another example is replacement of inventory at set intervals. Chairs and tables is either worn apart or in almost mind condition.

When it gets iffy is when you start go get to more expensive items. Lacquer is such a thing, especially once you go for mid end or premium lacquer.
Metal rust treatment.
High end chemicals.
At this point a good might be to allow people to borrow some of the sturdier work devices or measurement devices.
But it will get really iffy at some point.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[wisnoskij]

Not in the hotel business. But I imagine you would have to be a pretty incompetent hotel to not run an inventory of every room post use.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[Waffle Iron]

Geez, between being utterly paranoid about a communist takeover, and defining anything you don't like as "communist", you are one frigging frightened individual.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[HornWumpus]

Hate to break it to you, but they _were_ collecting metadata on phone calls in the 1950s.

They started collecting phone metadata on index cards filled out by the operators that connected the calls. Granting that was only on people that were suspicious or knew a foreigner.

In the 80s, there was a 'geek circles rumor' that the NSA knew every phone number you had ever made a pattern of calling, they had used that to map all the people you knew. It was at the time the 'world's largest database'. Turns out it was a true rumor.

No matter how careful you are, the people you know tell who you are. e.g. I've _never_ been arrested, but the feds know I have no respect for laws, because of who I hang around with.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[satanarchism]

So working people should just shut up and suffer because billionaires and politicians are inept and/or corrupt? If anything, a rise is workplace theft is a good sign, workers are starting to see their employers how they should: the enemy.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[mapkinase]

>I am not a company owner

No, you are not.

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[suutar]

I'm trying to figure out how you conclude that "a percentage of the profits" cannot come out to $20, and it's not working. Can you clarify your math?

Re:Probably more to do with the worsening economy

[jpaine619]

They started collecting phone metadata on index cards filled out by the operators that connected the calls. Granting that was only on people that were suspicious or knew a foreigner.

In the 80s, there was a 'geek circles rumor' that the NSA knew every phone number you had ever made a pattern of calling, they had used that to map all the people you knew. It was at the time the 'world's largest database'. Turns out it was a true rumor.

And that's my point. It went from a manual operation, where you had to actually allocate human resources, to an automated system because nobody freaked out and voted the morons out of office.

Freedom isn't free. It never has been. But act like you care and people assume you're some sort of loony.

Look, our country isn't in terrible shape today.. Some things could be better, some could be worse.. But the slide to authoritarianism and socialism doesn't happen over night.. It's a slow steady process where your rights are chipped away at.. Take Hugo Chavez.. The man was freely elected. He promised the Venezuelans all sorts of benefits and happiness if they just gave him a little more power.. And then a little more.. And finally he had total power.. Venezuela went from being one of the richest countries in South America to one of the poorest (I think only Paraguay is poorer). 100% of that transition, from rich to poor, happened under the dictator Chavez. Nobody else (besides the voters/citizens) is to blame.

I'm a Trump supporter, but the level of power any President (including him) has is frightening.. What's great when your party is in power isn't so great when the opposition is in power. We weren't set up this way.. The President was supposed to be a relatively (compared to today) weak position.. His job was to execute the laws.. Now we have Presidents saying "I'm not going to enforce this whole law" or variations of "I'm only going to enforce and apply certain provisions". Well, if the President can do that, then why the fuck do we even have a Congress?

So yeah, when I see my fellow Americans heading down the path (albeit more slowly) I am concerned.

What it is about the American mindset where we have thoughts like "Well, we've never been a dictatorship so it can't happen". The fuck it can't.......

Roosevelt had to ask Congress to declar war on Japan, and we'd just had the livin' shit bombed out of our Pacific Fleet... Now we have Presidents that don't even bother.... It was not supposed to be like this. I prefer the collective voice of our elected officials to drag us into war.. Not the whims of one man (regardless of if he's a Democrat or a Republican). That is too much power for one man.

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

I only worked for one company that wasn't run by a total piece of shit in my career,

There might be something wrong with you. At very least, you can say your selection of employment places should be improved.

Treat workers like crap ...

[b0s0z0ku]

Treat workers like crap, and you'll get treated like crap in return. A lot of US employers: (1) Don't want to give time off, even if it's written into the contract. No vacation time and discouraged sick leave are a fucking disgrace. (2) Lobby against things like public insurance, because they want workers tied to their jobs for life, (3) Treat employees like children -- drug-test and thus penalize recreational activity outside the office. (4) Fire employees before their vested to keep them from vesting. Is it any wonder that a few rolls of tape or whatever go missing? I'm surprised more employees don't steal more things, frankly.

Re:Treat workers like crap ...

[Bonker]

Companies in the U.S. are vastly less honorable and loyal to their employees than they've been in a long time, and they're getting worse every year.

Loyalty and respect are a two-way streets. If you treat employees like mindless tools, they're going to treat the company like a tool-- in this case, 'getting fair compensation' by hook or crook. They know that a board-room full of executives are still going to be super-wealthy at the end of the day, even if they five-finger every piece of kit they can lay their hands on. That's not an environment that breeds loyalty or honesty.

Re:Treat workers like crap ...

[MrL0G1C]

Nah, I don't think they know how to moralize considering they missed all of the points you made about corporations being arseholes, funny how you got modded as troll after they clearly trolled you, par for the course on slashdot.

Re:Treat workers like crap ...

[dcw3]

More likely, you're treated like a child because you're acting like one. Not to mention being a thief who thinks they hold the moral highground...SMH.

Re: Treat workers like crap ...

[HornWumpus]

Noam Chomsky _is_ a denier of the Cambodian holocaust. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

If he's in the US, maybe there's something wrong with 50-hour-per-week, no-vacation, all-work-no-play American "culture."

If he's in the US, and he has that, then there's definitely something wrong with his method of choosing workplaces. Even if you're an Uber driver you can do better than that.

There's a book about this.

[DanielRavenNest]

I seem to remember a Dilbert book "How to build a better life by stealing office supplies".

The summary didn't mention "envy" as a reason. The disparity in pay and wealth has grown a lot in the last few decades. Contrast Jeff Bezos with an Amazon warehouse worker, or the Walton family vs Walmart clerks. CEOs have always made more than line staff, but the ratio has increased greatly.

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[b0s0z0ku]

Not everyone wants a gig economy McJob -- why should a secure job and reasonable working conditions be incompatible? They're not in most of the developed world, you know.

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

A secure job and the computer industry are incompatible everywhere. Security in the computer industry comes from developing the skill of finding a good job.

Which coincidentally, our AC friend lacks.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

. and hear me out... you are a spineless weasel.,

Oh wait, let me check......nope, my exoskeleton is still intact.

If you want honest employees...

[VeryFluffyBunny]

...pay them a living wage & stop stealing their labour/wages. Wage theft is in an order of magnitude a bigger problem & generates a lot of ill-will between employers & employees: https://www.datamaticsinc.com/...

How about an agreement: We won't steal a few $s worth of stationery from you if you don't steal $1000s in wages you owe us? No? Didn't think so.

Re:If you want honest employees...

[VeryFluffyBunny]

One anecdote doesn't negate a line of reasoning supported by empirical evidence.

You think I can't justify theft? How about an impoverished mother of a starving baby stealing food for her/him? Is that not justifiable in your personal moral code?In the world where we haven't gone from barbarism to decadence & skipped civilisation, life & well-being trumps property every time.

You can come back when you've got a reasonable, rational argument to make.

Re:If you want honest employees...

[jpaine619]

What about the mother that steals food for her starving baby FROM another poor mother with a starving baby... Justify that one..

Do I understand it? Yeah.. Would I suggest a mother be sent to prison for it? No... Does that mean it's totally justifiable? Maybe and maybe not.. Maybe in your scenario and maybe not in mine... But regardless, starving mothers are a huge jump from stealing pencils because you don't WANT to pay for them.

Re:If you want honest employees...

[dcw3]

In this economy, if you're not making enough at one employer, why the fuck are you staying there? No, let's lower ourselves to theft and stick it to the man, right? moron.

Re:If you want honest employees...

[VeryFluffyBunny]

I think I know what kind of manager you are/would be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:If you want honest employees...

[jpaine619]

you took time out of building straw men to link me a video? how nice...

Re:If you want honest employees...

[VeryFluffyBunny]

You: "You can't justify theft."

Me: "How about an impoverished mother of a starving baby stealing food for her/him?"

BTW, if you intend to manage employees in the manner your attitude suggests, please let everyone know so that they can avoid you. Then again, your attitude also leads me to believe that it's unlikely that you're in management.

Wages of Wage Stagnation

[imperious_rex]

I'm not condoning employee theft, but I understand where they're coming from. With stagnant wages, it should be no surprise to anybody that more employees are committing petty larceny. But the bigger cost is "time theft" when non-smoking workers take smoke breaks too, long visits to the bathroom with a smart phone in the pocket, or the frequent extended lunch break. Employees with stagnant wages will seek just compensation one way or another.

Re:Wages of Wage Stagnation

[Anonymous Coward]

Compensation is the critical operative term here. Employees are already treated as thieves and sometimes punished accordingly even if they've actually done nothing yet. Even in Canada where it's flatly illegal to deduct from wages many employers in smaller businesses will try their luck, committing what amounts to extortion or outright theft for things like "client canceled their order" and other things considered EBIT.

Loyalty is a two way street: When you spend months or years being treated like dirt, and every "error" in pay is always in the employer's favor and NOTHING happens to the employer despite complaints, there's clearly nothing wrong with returning the favor and at least benefiting from being the thief you're treated as to begin with. It's unethical NOT to take from your employer at that point.

Not like they're even paying you half of what you're worth to them anyways. May as well raid the kitchen.

Re:Wages of Wage Stagnation

[MadCat221]

"Errors in pay" that are conveniently in the employer's favor is called Wage Theft if proven. Wage Theft is a crime.

Re:Wages of Wage Stagnation

[fafalone]

It's really bullshit to call it time theft when an employee takes the same break another can use to go use drugs on the job. (Yes it's legal but it is a drug, and more harmful than most illegal ones. Plus employers are still firing for pot where legal.)

Re:Wages of Wage Stagnation

[imperious_rex]

"Time theft" may be a bullshit term, but it's not my term. It's Wal-Mart's. An excerpt from Nickel and Dimed: On (not) Getting by in America by Barbara Enrenreich:

"No "grazing" that is, eating from food packages that somehow become open; no "time theft." This last sends me drifting off in a sci-fi direction: And as the time thieves headed back to the year 3420, loaded with weekends and days off looted from the twenty-first century... Finally a question. The old guy who is being hired as a people greeter wants to know, "What is time theft?" Answer: Doing anything other than working during company time, anything at all. Theft of our time is not, however, an issue. There are stretches amounting to many minutes when all three of our trainers wander off, leaving us to sit there in silence or take the opportunity to squirm.

Office supplies are no longer critical

[Dan East]

If you go back in time 50 years, office supplies of the sort discussed in the article were paramount. There was no other way to run a business without the physical supplies required to function. So the inventory and management of those items was critical, because the volume of those items used was so high that it directly effected the profit to unsure their efficient use (we processed 5000 accounts this month, we should have consumed X amount of resources A, B and C). Now that it is possible and desirable to go "paper free", the management of physical office supplies has fallen to the wayside. Businesses recognize that these things must be needed for some tasks, and so they provide them. However since they do not drive the bottom line, and the volume consumed is an order of magnitude less, they are not managed as closely. So now it is easier than ever to take things even though the volume of those items consumed by a business is far less.

Re:Office supplies are no longer critical

[jpaine619]

Oh geezus... Well, if it applies to you it must apply to everyone...

By the way, nobody is paperless... The paperless office was a fallacy that never came to pass.

So is workplace waste

[Krishnoid]

During an office 'cubicle densification' -- another form of workplace fraud, where companies steal square footage from their workers :-P -- in the absence of guidance, many people boxed up the stuff they wanted to keep and dumped out their office drawers into boxes, which probably went back out onto one of those pallets and likely straight into the trash.

I expect this problem to go away within our lifetimes, anyway, with continuous progress towards ubiquitous electronic documents and data interchange in a paperless office. Pencils? Erasers? I'm surprised they're still even stocked in these cabinets. At least when they're stolen, they're being *used* in the schools where they end up.

Re:Make employee the owners!

[guruevi]

Makes for a good case of the prisoners dilemma. Who steals first and then when it starts, how does it end?

Want me to work from home? Equip me to do so.

[Nkwe]

If your job includes doing work at home (either officially or unofficially), perhaps you need supplies at home to do so. Now I would hope that taking such needed supplies home would be approved by the company - and I am fortunate enough to work for a company that feels this way - I can take home pretty much anything I need to for my job, but for companies that don't, perhaps asking people to extend their work lives into their home lives is a driver for physical parts of the office "migrating" to the home "office".

Re:yep

[jpaine619]

Amazing as everyone there earns an ample paycheck, I guess there was opportunity.

I suspected as much.. It's culture.. It's not starving people who need a pencil.... I'd be willing to bet that most of these thefts aren't actually out of true need. It's probably more "If I have to buy my kids school supplies, I won't have enough left over for the top of the line iPhone."

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

No, carapaceless? I clearly said my exoskeleton is intact.

Re:A new reason to further crack down on workers.

[jpaine619]

Valid or not, this fine publication will be handy for management to further lean on workers. I expect it will be just a matter of time before people making minimum wage will have deductions from their paychecks for every item needed to do the job.

That would be illegal in many jurisdictions.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[dabadab]

Sorry to break it to you but the spine is part of the endoskeleton.

Just deduct it from the dividend

[grumling]

But they told me to act like I own the company.

It's all about cost vs benefit

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work for a well known software company. Some time after the dot com crash they decided to tighten spending and cut down on stocking the supply rooms we had on each floor.

Fast forward a few months and here we are, about 10 engineers in a meeting room and all of the white board markers are used up.

Somebody goes to the supply room across the hallway. No markers there. They go to all the other floors' supplies rooms. No markers there either. We had to find another unoccupied meeting room that still had working pens and take one. It took 15 minutes. How many times did this scenario repeat? How many hours were wasted tracking down supplies?

What do you think is cheaper? Losing a few office supplies to theft or having employees you pay 6 figures sit idle?

Possibly stating the obvious, but ...

[Hognoxious]

Another interesting statistic? "Fraudsters" who'd been with their company for more than five years "stole twice as much."

If you nick a pencil a day and a notepad per week then you will tend to get more the longer you're there. This is like, maths and stuff.

Also, the ones who are really shit at getting away with it tend to get caught & fired, thereby removing themselves from the pool. They should invent a name for that - survivorship bias, or something.

More sense of entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

I think in general people today have a sense of entitlement about everything. Its the poor me generation where if someone has more I deserve to have some. After all they can afford to buy more, so what's the problem. The problem is there is always someone poorer then you who also thinks this way about you. Its called theft a crime in most of the world no matter what you think you deserve.

TFA seems to blow things out of proportion...

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember buying a RAM upgrade for my company laptop using my own funds simply because it was so much easier than bothering with getting manager approval, filling out the purchase order paperwork, and waiting for it to trickle down through the purchasing manager, IT dept, etc. I saw some RAM on sale for a good price, I quickly bought it using my own funds, and I stuck it in my company's laptop myself. Saved the company time and money because they'd have bought it at a non-sale price, wasted a lot more people's time with all the red-tape, and now I'm more productive/happy because I'm not fighting with a laggy computer to do my work on.

I suspect a lot of this pen and pencil theft is a lot of the same, just in the other direction. The company consumes almost all of an employee's time, making it difficult and a waste of time to drive down to the office supply store, wait around in line, just to buy a couple cheap pens and pencils when the office supply cabinet is already fully stocked with those things and the company doesn't really care how many of them you take as long as it's not outrageous.

I suppose in today's day when anything can be ordered online in a snap and delivered next day with free shipping, maybe it doesn't make sense to risk stealing the office's pen/pencil considering the potential financial loss if you get fired over it. Still, if an employer fired someone over an occasional pen taken home, I think I'd rather like to find a nicer employer if possible.

Re:TFA seems to blow things out of proportion...

[Swave An deBwoner]

Exactly right. My work computer has a mechanical keyboard, vertical mouse, and USB3 hub that I bought at various times for relatively little expense. I have additional HDD USB-SATA docks and external DVD drives that I use and loan out. I've purchased memory for a server on eBay, again, cheaply. Why do I do this? Because it's so much easier and faster than requesting that the company purchase this stuff; I trade a little cash in place of a little annoyance.

If you want to be taken seriously...

[Shaitan]

Stop lumping the guy who went home with a pen (literally anyone) alongside the chick stealing boxes of pens and selling them online.

There is a very big difference between the person who just doesn't sweat their location when they print something and the person who deliberately prints and binds copies of books from project guttenberg to resell.

Re:If you want to be taken seriously...

[Krishnoid]

The first one's a thief. The second is a "very enterprising young man".

Re:If you want to be taken seriously...

[Shaitan]

Sad but true.

Re:If you want to be taken seriously...

[HornWumpus]

This is why I identify as a black female Huey super cobra.

It's not just the disparity increased

[rsilvergun]

the 2008 market crash left a lot of folks on the edge, and almost nobody recovered. More than one study has shown that the economy recovered by 2010 but all the gains since the crash went to the top.

The non-smokers I know

[rsilvergun]

still mange to take breaks they're not supposed to. Everybody does. Humans aren't good at working continuously for long hours without rest. Some can, and we have a bad habit of treating those people as the norm and calling out anyone who can't do that as lazy thieves... kinda like you just did.

It's not what you earn

[Ferocitus]

but what you take home that matters.

Raises

[fluffernutter]

People have to get their raises somehow.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

Also, you don't have an exoskeleton

I absolutely do. And it's rude to discriminate against externally formed. Shame on you!

Re:Yes and?

[dgatwood]

Spoken like a true thief.. A thief with a tiny brain who can't read a fucking article.. 52% asshole.. 52% of the work force taking home supplies. You don't think that adds up?

It's hard not to take home office supplies. You're running late to a meeting, so you grab a pen off your desk and stick it in your pocket. Then you forget about it. A week later, your significant other asks if you forgot about something, and that's when you find out that the pen exploded all over the laundry. Or at best, you notice it, and you toss it somewhere to bring with you the next day, and then by the next day, you've forgotten about it. A month goes by, and you see a pen and wonder why it is there, and you put it in the jar with the rest of your pens.

That's not stealing in any meaningful sense of the word. Besides, most employers these days expect you to do some work from home outside of office hours. So if you don't have a few random office supplies from work at home, then your employer is arguably stealing from you.

The real problem is companies that let their bean counters total up the cost of those supplies and then try to find ways to reduce that cost. In aggregate, yes, office supplies add up. But the total collapse of workplace morale when you try to limit those losses adds up to far more damage, both in the short term and long term. Office supplies are simply a part of the cost of doing business, including the ones that end up randomly walking away, whether intentionally or accidentally. And if you can't afford office supplies, you should really take a look at the balance sheet and see how much more expensive your employees are. :-)

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

Or you might scale minimum wage with inflation in a whole fucking country and set an example for the rest of the world

If you would be affected by a minimum wage increase......you have no skills.

Not theft.

[aaarrrgggh]

It isn’t theft, it is a perk.

Re:Yes and?

[Swave An deBwoner]

Thank you for standing up for honesty! Make America Great Again!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wilbur-ross-alleged-to-have-siphoned-more-than-120-million-from-associates-forbes-report-2018-08-07

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/wilbur-ross-stole-money-from-colleagues-sweetn-low-from-restaurants

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/08/06/new-details-about-wilbur-rosss-businesses-point-to-pattern-of-grifting

Oh, the humanity!

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

On the west coast here. If I didn't get three weeks of vacation at a job, I would start looking for another job. Of course, in Europe they often get six weeks of vacation. But my last job I managed to negotiate 13 weeks of vacation every year (although at a lower salary).

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[Swave An deBwoner]

I'll take WHOOSH! for 100, Alex.

Re:Yes and?

[jpaine619]

Is your point that if one person steals from people it's okay for someone else to steal?

We, as a civilization, decided that was unacceptable about 5,000 years ago.. The fact that Joe Smith steals from his employees is not justification for John Doe to steal from his employer. Or, are you trying to say that because a person in the Trump administration is a fuckhead, that all conservatives are?

Thanks for making my point for me. Not regretting this decision at all. If it was up to you fuckheads we'd all be like Venezuela now. I'll apply your logic and assume you have the brainpower of AO-C...

Posting anonymously..... for very good reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was a kid dad taught me "don't get caught" probably not a good thing really, because it's bad for general character and morals. I wish I could change but the tightass part of me hates seeing waste, loves saving money!

I've stolen from every single job I have over the years, a whole massive variety of things, cups, phones, cables etc. I'd describe myself as a fairly good thief, because I'm smart about it.

You learn early on, that if you ask your boss "Hey what about that old hard drive in the corner of the room from that old laptop we threw out" that MOST of the time that will not only remind them of the item existing but they'll move it somewhere, not make use of it, but they'll know *YOU* asked about it.

So, I now move the items I want to,... 'appropriate' and simply wait until an opportunity arises and I'm fairly confident no one knows where the item is anymore. If it IS missed, well, it's still here to be found!
I have obtained hundreds and hundreds of items from about 10 or 15 different jobs and I've never been done, I mean hundreds and hundreds of things. The *new* value of the items would have to exceed $100,000. (Only an idiot steals new shit from work)

MOST of the time, it's an item which is forgotten about, stuffed in a cupboard and would then be thrown out 4 years later during a cleanup, meanwhile it's depreciating in those 4 years or being perfectly usable for parents / friends computer needs etc.

I started writing a comprehensive list out but ..... I think it would be unwise, ... suffice to say a lot of stuff, a LOT of stuff.

Working in the environments I have, I've seen businesses *pay* in excess of $150 per PC for someone to take away a computer, which we've already dban'd so the person taking it away can wipe the case of the machine with a nice soapy cloth, dry it, re-install Windows with the valid damn Windows key sticker on the side of it and sell it for another $250.
I've seen a LOT of this, I can't tell you how much.

Then there's the "this entire computer is going to the shredders due to data" when you can just dban the machine or even throw the hard drive away if you're idiotically paranoid and replace it. SO much waste.
I'd actually be a very good asset manager, because I memorise physical items all too well, I'd be able to wisely sell all the old items and if I got just 5% of the value of the crap I sold for a medium to large business it'd cover my wage handily.

As for why this is occurring this is a much bigger topic which makes me less and less guilty about this shit.
These places will outsource you, they'll retrench you, they'll keep your wages low if they can, the government sees you as a source of income only, they'll gladly sell you out to the highest bidder if they could. Employers see you as en expense.
Wages in my country have stagnated for a decade. Housing costs tripled, jobs are more scarce, workers rights eroded. Cost of living is up.

If you CAN get away with ... 'liberating' goods, then why not? Why should I buy my aunt a new $300 basic phone when I know there's a drawer with several $1000 phones that are now 2 years old and are just sitting there, to rot and be thrown out when valueless?

Yes, morals not good here, but if I'm not doing it, someone else will or stuff will go to waste. Heck I'm helping the environment by recycling stuff arguably.

People want to feel looked after and respected in the workplace, valued. They're no longer valued, so why should they respect the workplace? Dumb thief, takes from the till, smart thief takes from the rubbish skip out the back. (and it makes me irate how that's still seen as 'wrong' in so many businesses)

Re:Yes and?

[jpaine619]

It's hard not to take home office supplies. You're running late to a meeting, so you grab a pen off your desk and stick it in your pocket. Then you forget about it

But that's not what the article is about.. Your scenarios wouldn't (most likely) result in office supply expenses shooting up by 20%. Nothing is ever black/white. There are always shades of grey.. But the story is talking about rampant supply thefts... I certainly wasn't talking about taking a single pen home by accident. But a large chunk of the morons are trying to justify this theft with "employers suck! Soak them!"

Re:Yes and?

[Swave An deBwoner]

Absolutely not my point. Your right wing must have hit you in the eye while reading my reply.

It was this part of your post that I was responding to:

You're a liberal. Any excuse to justify your moronic behavior is acceptable to you.

In case you still fail to understand, check the political leanings of Wilbur Ross, one of the best people that our Dear Leader (also crooked) hired to MAGA!

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[astrofurter]

Minimum wage sets the baseline. Over time all wages increase following an increase in the minimum.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

Over time all wages increase following an increase in the minimum.

I don't think that's true, but if you have data to support it, I'd be interested to see it.

Wages are determined by how many companies want someone to do X, and how many people want to do X. If more companies want X, the salary will go up. If more people want to do X, the salaries will go down. That is why programmer salaries are so high right now (despite only needing a bachelor's degree, or less): many companies want programmers, and relatively few people can do it.

Re:Yes and?

[dhasenan]

The increase in percentage could also be accounted for by a reduction in other forms of theft.

but is it on the rise?

[renegade600]

Not sure if thief is on the rise or just more security in the workplace :-)

just a side note, Years ago when I worked at walmart, more employees got fired for stealing than shoplifters caught.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[astrofurter]

Where are these high wages for programmers you speak of? Granted it's been a while since I've been in Silicon Valley. Based on advertised pay in job ads, most "senior" developer positions outside the financial industry pay "permanent renter" salaries. In fact average wages don't appear to be a dollar higher than they were 15 years ago, when cost of living was vastly lower.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[phantomfive]

Where are these high wages for programmers you speak of? Granted it's been a while since I've been in Silicon Valley.

A couple weeks ago in SV a recruiter told me he could match my required salary (total compensation) of $250k.

Re:Yes and?

[jpaine619]

Now you're speculating. We have facts as presented by the article. Your statement has nothing to back it up beyond guesses.

Re: Probably more to do with the worsening econom

[guruevi]

You're entitled if you think being in the top 10% is 'shitty wages'.

Employee Theft

[tquasar]

I managed 4 storerooms for a large city. We stocked really nice pigskin leather gloves, batteries, hand tools and brass water meters and parts. I told my employees to charge items to our department if they wanted batteries for a radio, gloves or other items. I know they still stole stuff.. The safety officer told me she would prefer people used safety gear at home so they wouldn't get injured and miss time at work. The water meters were a real theft problem. Old or obsolete ones were supposed to be returned to the meter shop for repair or saved to be sold as scrap but most were taken by employees to a recycler and the money was kept, hundreds of dollars a week. I gave that info to the purchasing agent for action. People were allow to resign or else be prosecuted. A friend wanted me to give hm around $200 worth of wrenches. No way Jose.

Re:do you have my red stapler?

[Quirkz]

Funny story. When I started at my office I went to the supply closet and found a red Swingline stapler. Used it for a couple of years, and then one night it disappeared off of my desk. I was kind of annoyed, but it wasn't really *my* stapler, and the supply closet had some replacements (black, not Swingline, but really, it's a stapler I use a dozen times a year, so who cares). Eight years later I was joking with a co-worker about Office Space and he mentions that he used to have a red Swingline, which he'd stolen from a co-worker who said he'd stolen it from someone else (me), but that it had been further stolen by yet another co-worker. Apparently they're a hot item, or everyone has a one-track mind. So I went and checked, and indeed the original model was on another guy's desk. I don't actually know if it was the one I had, but it doesn't really matter. I taped a bunch of strips of paper to my black stapler and wrote "Red" all over it. Then I swapped it for the red one, which I covered in paper that had "black" written on it, as the world's worst disguise and to make it more of a prank. I figured it would make it two days before someone noticed and swapped it back. It's been 18 months. One of the middle-men in the chain did actually notice, but he laughed his ass off and didn't say anything. At this point I'm just waiting for an opportunity to pull out Ol' Red--disguised as blackie--and see the realization in the other guy's eyes, but he got shifted to the other side of the building and it's unlikely to come up.

Build a better life

[TimMD909]

... By stealing office supplies

Re:yep

[91degrees]

I don't think it's even that. I think it's mainly about opportunity cost. i.e. "I could stop at the store and buy a pen but that's a 10 minute diversion on the way home, and I just want to get home".

Here in the UK...

[gnasher719]

one Tory Minister, Chris Grayling, just awarded a contract to run a ferry service to a company that has no ferries, for about 6.5 million pound. It then turned out that what he did was illegal, because he hadn't gone through normal procurement procedures, and paid 33 million pount in damages to a real ferry company. That's about 40 million out of utter stupidity. However, that is nothing compared to about £2.5 BILLION damages he caused earlier.

So WTF are you talking here about some pencils? (Or look at the 8.8 billion dollars that HP wasted on buying Autonomy. )

Re:An idea - It's not an increase

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not an increase in theft. It's an increase in people admitting to it.

It's the same theft for the same reasons (pick yours, plenty of discussion about that already)

The change is people are now aware of the bullshit "are you willing to lie" psychology tests employers are using and they now know the "wrong" answer to the question of "Have you ever stolen from your employer no matter how small the item is?" is "No"

The tests are done during hiring and by now most people have switched jobs and been subjected to them, and then talked about them online or with other employees.

So they say "Yes" to that question, knowing there's some egghead consultant back in the HR office somewhere that will flag that is "this person is willing to lie to us" (because by some measure, everybody has "stolen" something from an employer so the only possible correct answer is "Yes")

Junk science.

Nothing new under the sun

[tflf]

I suspect the "rise" is due in large part to improved record keeping (real time reporting of materials used for example), data mining techniques and the algorithms that process the data, combine to give businesses a much clearer picture of where, when and what are disappearing from the workplace, and who may be taking it, at a significantly cheaper cost and much closer to real time. From what I've read, employee theft has been a problem since the start of organized work. Certainly, it was rampant in every workplace when I got my first job in 1970. The bigger the company, the more it happens. Every company knew theft was a problem, and had a very rough idea of what employee theft was costing them. Dismissal for theft has always been occurred, but the process to identify, catch and convict the offenders required manpower and time, or a huge helping of luck. A smart cautious thief could operate for decades without raising a red flag, and even blatant thieves were often hard to pick out from the employee pool.

What supplies?

[WhatHump]

I work for a Fortune 500 company and here's what you'll find in the office supplies cabinet: pads of 8x11 lined paper, a box of cheap stick pens, paper clips and fold back clips. That's it. If you want post-it notes or highlighters, a stapler or tape, that requires a manager's approval. And very little printer paper is kept next to the multifunction printer/scanner/copier, which you have to log into to use so you know you're being monitored. Not much worth stealing here.

Re:What supplies?

[painandgreed]

If you want post-it notes or highlighters, a stapler or tape, that requires a manager's approval.

It's quicker, easier, and more likely to get permission (after the fact) just to steal them off the manager's desk.

Re:Yes and?

[BorisAmmerlaan]

It's hard not to take home office supplies. You're running late to a meeting, so you grab a pen off your desk and stick it in your pocket. Then you forget about it

But that's not what the article is about.. Your scenarios wouldn't (most likely) result in office supply expenses shooting up by 20%. Nothing is ever black/white. There are always shades of grey.. But the story is talking about rampant supply thefts... I certainly wasn't talking about taking a single pen home by accident. But a large chunk of the morons are trying to justify this theft with "employers suck! Soak them!"

Then what is the phrase "ranging from a single pencil in the supply closet to a pallet of them on the company loading dock" about?

Re: Yes and?

[HornWumpus]

Everybody takes pens home. 'Honest people' take them back, when they've got a whole cup full.

How many disposable pens do you need anyhow? They're not worth 'stealing'.

Employers/clients can trust me with a million dollars...a hundred million+ and they would never see me again. In between is a grey area.

Re:Everyone is a spineless weasel

[demonlapin]

So what if they did? It means he sucks at choosing women to marry. Some chick with a hundred notches in her bedpost might make for an interesting couple of months, but you don’t marry her.

Re:yep

[HornWumpus]

Never outsource cleaning. Never leave it to the landlord.

'They' don't care if the cleaning staff steals. They expect it. Running a cleaning service is for bottom feeders. Ex cons and junkies as far as the eye can see.

Rolling office cleaning into the rent is a false economy. Smart office managers hire their own cleaners, have hallway cameras on all night, and pay enough to keep the good ones.

It's not pens/headphones, it laptops and data that you should be concerned about.

Re:It literally may be...

[HornWumpus]

Leaving whoopee cushions/plastic barf around the office discourages people bringing their crotch fruit into the office.

Stationery is cheap!

[TJHook3r]

I worked at a company where they had a full-time job to monitor stationery. How many pens and envelopes would people need to steal to exceed the cost of a dedicated member of staff?!!

Extra compensation

[uncoveror]

Wage slaves have figured out they are paid only a tiny fraction of what their time and efforts are worth, so they are taking extra compensation by helping themselves to office supplies.

Basic Inventory Control

[overlook77]

Have an operations team that's in charge of ordering the supplies in the first place have the key to the supply room. When an employee needs something, the operations member lets them in and sees what they take. Simple. If someone was watching me I'd be less likely to take 20 packs of post it notes at once.

Re:The problem seems to be concentrated

[dcw3]

It's been all around Capital Hill for much longer. Don't kid yourself into thinking one side or the other isn't guilty.

Re: Everyone is a spineless weasel

[astrofurter]

So about the same as 15 years ago for a quality senior developer. Except now cost of living is more than double.