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Microsoft Asks Users To Call Windows 10 Devs About ALT+TAB Feature (bleepingcomputer.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bleeping Computer: Microsoft has started to display notifications in the Windows 10 Action Center asking users to have a phone call with Microsoft developers and provide direct feedback about the ALT+TAB feature in Windows. While using a Windows 10 Insider build today, I was shown a Feedback Hub notification stating that "Microsoft wants to hear your opinions! To set up a phone call with Windows engineers, go to: http://www.aka.ms/alttab." This link then redirects to a web page at https://ux.microsoft.com/?AltTab. It is not known if this is only being shown to Windows Insiders users at this time.
When users visit this link they will be shown a Microsoft User Research page stating that a Windows 10 product team is looking to "understand our customer needs" and would like to have an anonymous 5-10 minute phone call with the user. In this particular case, the phone call will be with Microsoft engineers to discuss how users use the ALT+TAB feature to switch between apps. Microsoft states they are performing these calls in order to get a better understanding of how a feature is being used while they are in development. According to the web site, Windows engineers will be available on 3/11/2019 between 11:15 AM and 1:00 PM PST and on 3/12/2019 between 9:30 AM and 11:30 AM PST to schedule a call. The page goes on to say that users can expect a 5-10 minute call, but that it could last longer if there is more to discuss. They also state that the calls are not being recorded, are anonymous, and the content of the call will not be stored.
When users visit this link they will be shown a Microsoft User Research page stating that a Windows 10 product team is looking to "understand our customer needs" and would like to have an anonymous 5-10 minute phone call with the user. In this particular case, the phone call will be with Microsoft engineers to discuss how users use the ALT+TAB feature to switch between apps. Microsoft states they are performing these calls in order to get a better understanding of how a feature is being used while they are in development. According to the web site, Windows engineers will be available on 3/11/2019 between 11:15 AM and 1:00 PM PST and on 3/12/2019 between 9:30 AM and 11:30 AM PST to schedule a call. The page goes on to say that users can expect a 5-10 minute call, but that it could last longer if there is more to discuss. They also state that the calls are not being recorded, are anonymous, and the content of the call will not be stored.
MS engineer: "Yup, yet another very satisfied customer. Man are we good!"
Users don't need more than 640k... oh, yes they do. Whoops!
Users don't need the Start Button... oh, yes they do. Whoops!
and now
Users don't need ALT-TAB... get your FSCKING hands off of my interface Microsoft!!!
I use that combo at least 100 times a day. And Ctrl-Tab for web browser tab switching.
Another favorite: Window+arrow keys is awesome for resizing and moving windows (the 50% of screen shift is nice to put two programs on one screen).
BlameBillCosby.com
Shows all opens windows and cycles through them, add shift to go backwards. It already does exactly what you need and works fine. I wonder how far they can go with fucking up such a simple, functional solution.
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As primarily a linux/mac user, i find the alt+tab (and its equivalents) quite crude and ineffective when you're running a large number of applications (having to cycle through a large number of applications one by one)...
I generally have multiple virtual workspaces which are each setup for a specific purpose (usually multiple apps laid out in each) and then switch directly to the numbered workspace that i require.
When i've seen people heavily using alt+tab it's usually on systems where a very small number of applications are in use (maybe 3-4), they are running maximized and the user is switching between them. From my desk right now i can see another user doing this with a browser, a mail client and a spreadsheet.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Leave it the fuck alone
Alt-tab is a UI thing Windows did right. It's a feature that was lacking from contemporary Macs, and was first added by a freeware extension about the System 7 era before being ripped off wholesale in System 7.5 (from memory) and I also remember the Apple lot openly acknowledging where it had come from.
My feedback on it? My feedback would be instantaneously suspicious and the phone call would consist of me repeating over and over "for gawd's sake leave it alone and don't faff".
A small chill went down my spine when I read this headline.... Are they thinking of breaking alt-tab now??? I am relived to find no such indication in what I've read, but also disappointed that I apparently missed this call with MS engineers. I'd love the opportunity to tell them about now annoying the giant app preview thing is when using alt-tab, which is why I use https://winaero.com/ to make alt-tab behave like it did in the 90s, with just the icons of the software I have open, not a useless full-screen preview effect. Of course, "apps" just show a broken icon, for whatever reason, but that's fine, since I mostly use actual software, since my PC is not a phone.
Might makes right irrelevant.
I mean, change is alright as long as it is backward compatible, but completely rearranging functions I use every day gets annoying. Excel changed their keyboard shortcuts at one point. I used to be able to do pretty much everything in Excel without touching my mouse, then something changed and I had to use the ribbon for way too much, rather than fast keyboard combos.
"Oops, looks like we missed something, there's a highly useful feature there we haven't removed or screwed with yet!"
Here's someone asking the right type of questions.
Why is it modern software companies are obsessed with 'improving' features that already work perfectly well? It's not just Microsoft, but Mozilla, Google and most others. They're 'improving' the life out of their software. Their 'improvements' are generally significantly inferior to the original implementation, and commercial software has been moving backwards for the last 15 years. It used to be that you could just install Windows 2000 and use it, but with Windows 10 you have to apply about 100 registry hacks, and even then it's garbage. Firefox is trash compared to version 3.0 and the UI simply doesn't work. As for Google, they couldn't produce a decent UI to save their lives.
The problem seems to be the rise of the UX designer, and while interfaces were previously created by developers, they're now made by people who believe themselves to be highly creative and innovative, and believe they can do a better job then the developers that preceded them. However, their confidence is greatly misplaced, and these UX designers have destroyed modern commercial software, rendering it completely worthless.
All of the software I use now is FOSS, not so much because I planned it that way, but because each time a company destroyed the UI of their product, I've moved to a free alternative with a functioning UI. Now I'm on all FOSS because UX designers have so thoroughly destroyed commercial software. When I see articles like this it makes me glad I bailed out.
Given their consistently bizarre positions on things like ribbons, the start menu, etc. there's no telling what particular brand of LSD they've been eating lately wherein they believe that alt-tab isn't the most important key combination in windows (arguably up there with ctrl-alt-del, which used to reliably lock the screen, now it does...something else not helpful).
There are a few sacred key combinations that just work, and they shouldn't ever fucking touch:
ctrl-alt-del -> (with an option for task manager before screen blank & login)
alt-tab -> select background applications in order of what was last recently used, continuously pressing alt allows you to continue to go through applications until you find the right one
ctrl-c - Copy highlighted text
ctrl-v - Paste text from clipboard
ctrl-z - Undo (pressed 10 times in a row, uninstalls the OS and reverts back to Windows 2000, the last time they had the OS UI more or less correct)'
alt-f4 - Kill this shit immediately
There are others, but there are wear marks on my keyboard here.
...and you have no idea how your customers use a key feature in Windows 10?
Way to fail there, Microsoft.
MS using the Insiders program to try to gather more information about how people are using Windows...well yes of course. I understand that MS = BAD and all that but this is exactly what they should be doing, isn't it?
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
Here's someone asking the right type of questions.
Actually, I'm only left asking the obvious question; How the hell did MS telemetry not gather this detail.
Less important, but alt-enter "used to" be the command for games to full screen.
Now with UWP, it's Winkey+shift+enter. ....Why?
Answer: "To give them the results they wanted"
Let's hope they get a "Brexit" vote.
No sig today...
In the era of DOS applications, F3 was the nearly universal key for exiting the program, and returning to the DOS prompt. This was pretty ubiquitous, except for WordPerfect, which for some reason used F7, and never had an on-screen legend to tell you how to exit. The F1 key was also the universal key for Help.
Since the implementation of GUIs beginning with Windows, the F3 function key has had no effect, or does something other than Exiting.
.
If only...
here's no telling what particular brand of LSD they've been eating lately wherein they believe that alt-tab isn't the most important key combination in windows
You say that as if it hasn't been replaced by an alternative that provides the original function + a lot more. Try hitting windows+tab at some point. You can still switch applications, + actually manage your virtual desktops.
Ugh! The only thing the addition of the windows key has done has been to kick me out of a game when I accidentally hit it. Almost every other function can be done with a control-keypress equivalent. They just wanted the branding on every keyboard ever. I'm surprised that they didn't implement a windows button on Mice.
Windows-tab does not, by itself, switch between applications. You must also use the arrow keys to select a window and then hit enter. That's a lot less quick to switch back and forth between two windows than alt-tab.
This is acceptable, just in case some multiplayer troll says that this combination is a menu that activates cheats, options, or some other valid reason. (Perhaps the user forgot to save the game, etc.)
On the other hand, this is not.
In the era of DOS applications, F3 was the nearly universal key for exiting the program, and returning to the DOS prompt.
It was actually a holdover from the mainframe/3270 days, when F3 (PF3 in IBM parlance) was universally used to exit a running program.
Other shortcuts I use several times daily:
Windows + L : Lock screen
Windows + E : File explorer
Windows + D : Show desktop (minimize everything)
Windows + Left/Right: Move window to the left/right side of the screen
What's stupid is that they come with new and arguably more powerful shortcut systems, but who the fuck knows what they are without obvious documentation/hints?
Worse is when they take away the originals for work-alikes (even better ones) but still don't make the new ones known.
They could even make an appy app that serves both as documentation and a way to change/add these keyboard commands back to what they used to be.
None of this satisfies UI designers, though. Most UI alterations never achieve whatever utopia their designers want and they know if they don't engage in authoritarianism to promote them (cut off the old ones), they definitely won't go anywhere. They're just fascists hiding behind human factors research.
Very handy on an overloaded machine... saves a lot of time vs. trying to spawn the security screen.
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
Ctrl + Windows + Left/Right Switch desktops
windows key disabled... does more harm than good.
I keep the windows key disabled. In games it only does bad things, and I pretty much only use Windows for games. I have linux and os x when I need to get work done.
Windows-tab does not, by itself, switch between applications. You must also use the arrow keys to select a window and then hit enter. That's a lot less quick to switch back and forth between two windows than alt-tab.
Or you can click the window you want.
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Oh man, now I remember the keyboards at school had this cardboard cutout that fit over the function keys with an explanation of what ctrl/alt/shift/combo thereof along with each function key did in WordPerfect. I think ... Shift-F7 was Save, wasn't it?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
alt-f4 - Kill this shit immediately
Personal rant: I hate that many modern games don't do this properly anymore. If I press alt-f4 I don't want you to ask me whether I am sure I'd like to quit and then take 15s to actually quit, I'd like you to F*** OFF RIGHT NOW!
Is this a thing PC games can do? I mainly play elite and people are always moaning about combat logging which is basically doing that to get yourself out of a fight/death and the devs are always saying nothing can be done about it but if they could intercept that command and make the user piss around with an overlay while they get blown the fuck up they short of flat out pulling the plug that would basically be problem solved on that front.
Is ctrl+esc still a thing?
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Ctrl+shift+esc, opens the task manager without having to use ctrl+alt+del or launching it explicitly from the run menu or command prompt. No idea why it doesn't seem to be documented.
In case you didn't know:
ctrl-shift-esc -> brings up task manager
windows-L -> locks the screen
Well, it's something you fall for once, like the recommendation to delete C:\Windows\System32 too...
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
You way seems rather complex already. Are you using a standard keyboard.
I just use my left thumb on the ALT and my Left Pinky (or Ring Finger) to hit the tab. Your method you right hand is really leaving the home row on your keyboard.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The function keys seem be used less and less now a-days. To a point where some keyboards (espectially laptop) don't even have the function keys as the default action, but use it for volume, microphone, screen brightness, wi-fi.... and you need a function key to switch to the function Fx keys. (yes this can be changed in bios)
However having used old VT and IBM 3270 terminal programs, I actually like the ability for have over 20 function keys at hand, it was like having a ribbon on your computer. It was common to have a sliver of paper that you can put next to your function keys that will tell you what the application will do with those keys.
All the hot keys today seem to be using the ctrl and Alt keys way too much now. If you are going to be so focused on touch typing commands. Then you really should focus more on the VI style interactions. then Ctrl and Alt, (and Move the CTRL key where the Caplock key is like a civilized folk)
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Right. And since we can safely assume that it did, it means the premise they're using as the reason for the phone calls is a lie. I don't really have any good guesses as to what this is really about, but I can guarantee that it will be at best futile or at worst a very bad idea to make that phone call.
F1 was not the Help key in WordPerfect
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
One of my terminal based apps uses F12 to exit the app.
Just when you think the world plays by the same rules all the time...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
On KDE and MacOS, alt+tab goes from application to application, while alt+~ goes between windows of the same application. This is super helpful when you have a bunch of terminals open and want to switch between them or multiple web browser windows and want to switch.
I wish this feature were available on Windows.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Okay, you should probably not game in environments where you get in trouble if it takes a confirmation and 15s for a game to quit.
That's what I use when I'm chasing rabbits in regedit.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
If you're going to ask users about features, do it over Web and keep it public.
Some people: are deaf or hard-of-hearing; are mute, stutter or are otherwise speech-impaired, or do not speak English; are shy or telephonophobic; sleep, work or are otherwise unavailable during your chosen hours; want to have a persistent record of their feedback and/or the following discussion.
Taking feedback over the phone discriminates against all of the above.
I find it handy. I even remap it on linux. Win-c opens the calculator, Win-t opens a text editor, etc.
The more harm than good label belongs squarely on the asshole decision to make ctrl-q quit web browsers, and ctrl-w close a window. For years I fought to disable fucking ctrl-q in all my browsers, but lately it's gotten so hard to do that I've given up. Tab restore helps mitigate this evil, but it doesn't save half-written posts in other windows.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Maybe on later Windows. My 8.1 machine allows me to go through the list by repeatedly hitting the tab key after the initial Alt+tab.
This works fine in my opinion, which means that Microsoft is going to innovate this out of the next product.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
I'm on Win10 1809, not insider preview, and I got the notification.
(I work for Microsoft, but this machine isn't on-prem domain joined or using an MSIT image. It is connected to AAD.)
Or you can click the window you want.
The key is to do it quickly. Alt+Tab allows you to switch between 2 programs quickly (and instantly) with one hand.
F3 is usually search/find now
horror vacui
Shift+F2 my friend.
I get F16 with shift+F4. 3270 land. Learn it, live it, love it.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Maybe CTRL-ALT-DEL was disabled, maybe it wasn't (or it's still wired to immediate hard reboot, but your game crashed hard enough that it doesn't work)
Soft reboot. Hard (cold) reboot is/was the reset button.
Every end has half a stick.
It was actually a holdover from the mainframe/3270 days, when F3 (PF3 in IBM parlance) was universally used to exit a running program.
IBM's CUA (Common User Access) at the time. Every mainframe program (WAAAY before PCs) had a different set of function key actions. CUA standardized that, and F3 was Exit.
LIke the parent said, the DOS F3 was copied from that for compatibility. (Muscle Memory. My God, why don't UI designers realize that? QUIT changing things just to change things!!)
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
Because if so, I hope those engineers are prepared for a lot of penises. Or maybe that's the plan.
What year is this?
How about Ctrl+Shift+Esc - to invoke Task Manager? On some machines now works only with Right Ctrl + Right Shift + Esc.
It's about tricking you into using Skype.
They want to authenticate your identity on a windows 10 pc as if it were a cell phone - that way they can compete with the more widely used operating systems: android and apple
The Alt Tab thing is complete misdirection.
If that surprises you, then rest assured, it probably would surprise the folks who are working on this project.
There's nothing like clueless employees and customers when you want to dominate the universe with authenticated skype zombies with a credit line.
If you don't believe me just ask God or get a Ouija board.
- Users want to be able to trust their O/S
- Users don't want Microsoft to force spy on you
- Users want their machines / hardware to be thiers, not Microsofts
- Users don't want an evil Advertising ID in the O/S that they paid $200 for. That's just evil (Well, Spying is more evil)
- Users don't want APPs installed automatically.
- Users don't want the Evil Microsoft Store
- Users don't want to have to ID themselves to Microsoft to install free software
- Users don't want to have to ID themselves to install a fucking Office suite that's way over protected for what it is. Let us buy it and have an key
- Users don't want the Evil that's baked in.
- Users don't want a hateful partner in computing.
You are exactly correct.
M$ needs to authenticate the unique Win 10 user... preferably with a dual layer ID of IP address combined with reference to cellular or skype or whatever unique communications identifier may be utilized. This is an attempt to socially engineer insiders users join an ad-hoc captcha of human behavioral manipulation, We dance like a marionette, waltzing to the bullshit Bolero. This may assure their clients of the user data integrity. True Anonymity leads to redundancy in the data mine...The best way to optimize their earnings is to violate our privacy. We ain't worth squat unless we are a positively authenticated and itemized cataloged inventory UNIT. Why would corporate scum pay a premium for owning redundant user data probably previously mined. Data from Apple, Amazon, Google, and Verizon? Just buy and sell the unique M$ accounts not yet exsanguinated - and for a premium,
This is so lucrative that they will even pay a human to pretend to be a "Dev" (aka D.ata E.xtraction V.ampire) to "talk" to "you" in "reality", In fact a Mumbai call center boiler room zombie pretends to be a caucasion M$ developer in WA, just to nail you down, you wannabe mysogenist honky piece of cybermeat..
Forgive my cynical Tourette's syndrome. I forgot to take my anti psychotic, tri-polar, paranoia & impotency re-uptake boner inhibitor analgesic ( Anal..Geez..Ick ) halucination meds that I found in a dumpster at a hipster retirement community in San Bernadino County If you don't believe me then ask God... He'll remove any doubt. Unless you are in doubt God exists, which might be an existential delemma causing a borderline personality disorder or vaginal discharge. We must take this very seriously even if we've never seen a vagina, or have one installed and configured biologically.
and remove the French language pack from your Linux install rm -fr